The Wellness Scoop - Exercise as Therapy, Super-Salads & the Pressure to Optimise

Episode Date: January 26, 2026

This week on The Wellness Scoop, we’re unpacking some of the health stories shaping how we think about wellbeing right now. We start with new research showing that regular, moderate exercise can be as effective as therapy for depression for some people, and what the evidence actually says about what works best. We then look at two stories that reveal how much our food environment matters. New data shows just how much hidden salt we’re consuming in the UK, alongside research revealing how quickly weight can return after stopping weight-loss injections. Together, they highlight why long-term health can’t rely on medication alone. We finish by exploring modern wellness culture, from the rise of the £12.50 super-salad as Gen Z’s new “treat” to the growing pressure to optimise every part of our lives, and when the pursuit of health can start to feel more stressful than supportive. Send your questions for our weekly Q&A to: [e-mail] Order your copy of Ella's new book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quick Wins: Healthy Cooking for Busy Lives⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Pre-order your copy of Rhi's upcoming book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Fibre Formula⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are both here as your host. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Riannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. And that's why we've created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living, simple, fun and personal. And guys, the Wellness Scoop is officially one. So first birthday.

Oh my goodness. we've aged. We're growing up. We're entering our toddler years. No, but in all seriousness, this was something that I think we were both really keen to experiment with, as Rees says in our intro every week, we just felt this space was so noisy and so hard to navigate.

And when every time you open your phone, you see something on social and then a headline and then a podcast clip, whatever it is, and they all contradict each other. And they're all quite extreme. knowing how to actually like gently, slowly, sustainably improve your health on a day-to-day basis when life is busy around you, we just both felt had become nigh on impossible. And so the fact that we've had five million lessons and downloads and you guys are in over

100 countries and are loving it, we are just so beyond grateful because God, we love this show. It's given us a happy place every week, a place without pressure, without stress, and just a place where we can bring positivity to a space that I feel. Phil has needed it because we all know negative news travels a lot faster than positive news, which is why the Wellness Scoop is here. It really is. And very fancy for one year birthday. Guys, we have our own Wellness Scoot email now.

We do. Ella did it two days ago. She's like, rehearse her emails. I was like, yes. I was on a domain buying shopping spree. I'm feeling really fancy. Anyways. So any questions, queries, comments, things you want us to know,

and definitely questions for our weekly Q&A. Send them to us. We are just hello. at wellness-scoop.com. I'll pop it in the show notes as well for you guys. But please say hi. This is so exciting. So email us direct.

We cannot wait to receive all of your questions. And Ella, it is a fantastic way to celebrate our one-year anniversary because we've got an incredible show. What's coming up? We have, okay, we're going to be talking about whether exercise really can rival therapy for depression and what kind of exercise actually helps. Why Hidden Salt is one of the biggest, quietest health risks in the UK.

and we're basically eating 155 packs of crisps a week, which is wild. One new research reveals about weight regain after weight loss injections. Why medication alone can't fix our health without changing the food environment, the rise of the £12.50 super salad and how Jen said, a redefining treats. When wellness tips into pressure, optimization and anxiety, and why living longer isn't the same as living better. So Ella, how has your week been? You've been a busy bee again. Well, you know, I'm on this like mission to be Zen this year.

And I am on a serious streak of daily meditation or breathwork every day in January. That's incredible. Sometimes just like three minutes. I mean, sometimes 12 minutes, but not huge chunks of the day. And obviously I'm locked out of my socials for most of the day as well. And that's going well. It's been seven days now. I'm obsessed.

She's on it. Yeah. Almost two weeks. Oh, 14. Wow, Ella. I know. of basically, and I now think social, when I log on is the most boring thing in the world. It's like taste buds, you get used to it.

You really do. And I look, my brains, I'm an overthinker, I'm an over-worryer, I am probably naturally very scatty, a terrible multitasker. And that always makes me feel quite overwhelmed. And I think that just the combination of like deliberately trying to take time out to calm by doing the breathwork and then not having that constant chatter in my head of like refreshing the little dopamine hits, that little monkey on my shoulder being like, look at this, look at this, always vying for my attention.

I just feel, I genuinely, I feel really different. I feel so much calmer and more balanced. It's so important. And I think after we spoke last week, I made a really conscious effort around the children especially. I just don't want to, you know, near me because I just picked up my phone this morning, for instance, on the train. And I saw something really sad, like someone's dog has died. And I'm there in tears on the train about someone I don't know on the other side of the planet who's just lost their pet, which is very sad, but I didn't need to see it, Ella.

And I think it just reminds us that we, especially as empaths, and I'm particularly driven this way, feel sad about everything on the planet. I think it's so important for our mental health. And you also have an aura ring, and I really want to know how that's going. Okay. Do you know what? I feel I can give a better update maybe in like a month or two months. I tried it out. This was all part of my Zen year.

I had some health challenges at the end of last year, some kind of recurrence of some things I've struggled with in the past with my heart rate. and things and some gut health problems. And so that was all kind of part of just trying to understand what was going on. Anyways, I'm not sure. Jury's out. It did tell me I was in a restored state when I was working on the wellness scoop script. I mean, that is good.

I would just say, look, we've read so much and we've talked a lot on the show about how these trackers are a slippery slope and how easy it is to become quite fixated on the numbers. Again, it's just like another sense of validation. you'll notice I'm not wearing it today. And I just found it was like, you're in such a stress date. And I was like, yeah, I am because my children won't put their shoes on. They won't eat their breakfast. We're late at school again.

I'm always saying we're late. I'm always saying we're late. And I feel so guilty, but I always say we're late. You're anxious. But we are every day. Yeah, I know. We are every day late. I know.

Come on. Get out of the house. I don't know. There was just this part of me that was like, I'm not sure. I've now think I'm stressed about you telling me I'm stressed. Yeah. And I'm overthinking the stress. And actually, I'm not sure if it's helping me.

So I've taken it off for a few days. I'll put it back on again and try it out. But I don't know. I just worry again, like how much information is too much information. I mean, I don't think I need tech to tell me when I haven't slept well because I know when I haven't slept well. We both came in this morning. I know have insomnia from the three-month period my youngest gave me of no sleep where they're sleeping and I'm not sleeping. I don't need an app to tell me that.

You're tired but wide, exactly. I know. And then it makes you more frustrated. There's definitely two sides to these wearable texts. They're not going anywhere and I can see the benefit for some, but I agree with you. Anxiety provoking. I just felt like I was becoming the epitome of the worried well. Yeah.

Well done for saying no as well, no to it. You took it off today. Yeah, I took it off over the weekend because I was just like, this is ridiculous. Like, this is more information than I possibly need. Yeah. And I think, Ella, you're on a real good mission to really put yourself first this year. and be in the moment, and I think that's really admirable. It's really difficult to do.

It's one of the hardest things I've always said in the Retroation Clinic is when you're working with a client. Any change is really difficult. As humans, we just don't like change. No, it's so difficult, and you have to confront parts of yourself. But what is exciting, I told you, guys, a few weeks ago we launched at All Plans, some products into Tesco, which are going so well. And anyone who works in the food space knows that getting into St.Sbridge, Tesco,

that's the epitomey of success. Guys, it's such a milestone. But then it has to work. Obviously, it has to turn on shelf. People need to buy it. I'm buying them. I've got them in the fridge. We've had them twice now.

The Tovi Cushans, they're just literally flying. So that's a really exciting start of the year. I think it was very, not unclear, but it was kind of, I don't think any of us were, you know, we didn't know 100% with this company work. And it seems like it's really flying. I think it's so good because if you have a think about it, not all processed foods are bad. There's a different scale, isn't they? Exactly. They're not Mars bars.

They're not ultra-processed, and they don't have additives and emulsifiers pumped into them. And there are so many products like that that exist. You know, there are some sausages made from vegetables. There's corn mints out there made from microproteen. There's your tofu guzons on the market. And they have a place. And what I worry about with this ultra-process food conversation sometimes is we do have to remember that these are options that can help people sometimes. They're not all the same.

This black and white way of looking at things. If you look at some of the other podcast, they're like, my goodness me, you just filled with fear, don't you? completely and I have to say trying to make those sorts of products without the emulsifiers and things is so difficult. So hard. But it can be done and I, you know, I'm a big passionate believer in that. You know who needs them, Donald Trump? I am, just to say, I had this interview on Sunday on Times Radio and they asked me, what does Donald Trump eat? I was like, well, I don't know.

I'm not his nutritionist. Apparently all McDonald's and Coca-Cola. That's what they say. You know, and I was like, well, if that's true, obviously he's not the vision of health. So we do need these other processed items on the shop shelf. because then people like him that are so used to having, you know, this fast food diet could really benefit from it. Exactly. That's the whole mission is like how do you give people a much better option, but that meets that need on a Tuesday night when you need something basically instant. But what was interesting to me, and we will go into the headlines, I promise, is that, you know, I was asked the question, he's not setting a good example for the US public when they're trying to now create guidelines that move away from ultra-processed foods.

And that was really interesting to me because he's never pretended. obviously the president's never pretended to be the vision of health. But should every head of state and should every person in government in parliament be fit and healthy and the pressure that puts upon them to them become role models? I'm going off on a whole tangent. Isn't it? I mean, I think if you're in charge of health you should be, which is not always the case. No.

Yeah. So I know I think you should. I think if you're going to inspire a nation to change, you need to some extent live by. that surely if Donald Trump ever picks up on this you need to get Ella's book quit wins and my new book the fiber formula and then we'll see we'll see where he goes can you imagine if someone like that actually read our books oh my gosh this is such an unexpected turn this morning right let's move on to the headlines that matter okay so our first headline today guys scientists find exercise rivals therapy for depression and this was picked up in lots and lots of places that headline

in particular comes from science daily and This new piece of research was analysing existing evidence that came from 73 different clinical trials, which involved almost 5,000 patients. And what the researchers found was that exercise had a similar effect on symptoms of depression when compared to psychological therapies. So they were drawing specifically on 10 trials that directly compared exercise with therapy. And the researchers in that concluded there was little to no difference in effectiveness between the two approaches. which is so interesting. The research team were based in the University of Lancashire, and they were quoted saying they thought

these findings suggest exercise should be considered a safe and accessible option for managing depression. I think it's really wonderful because the review also found that when you exercise, it shows comparable benefits to antidepressant medication. So we're clear, of course, that you can't replace medication with exercise, but it's something that I think we should add into the mix that works really, really well for people.

and the review did identify Ella, what type of exercise seemed to work best. And it was light to moderate intensity activity, which was better than the vigorous. I think that's because of stress. I totally agree. It's the gentle effect on the body. And as well in terms of kind of consistency, the strongest improvements in depressive symptoms were seen when the participants completed between 13 and 36 exercise sessions. So obviously that does show that the consistency matters just one or two. sessions won't get the same effect, but also again, consistency more important than intensity,

which I think is really good to know in terms of trying to make this work within your lifestyle. Because we spoke about it last week that putting the washing out and even hanging the washing line, that housework is light exercise. A hundred percent to that point really, they gave examples of moderate activity that was included and it included heavy housework cleaning, like mopping, washing windows, brisk walking, cycling at 10 to 12 miles an hour. and sports like badminton. So kind of really accessible, gentle, plausible exercise. But interestingly, the programs that combined aerobic exercise, so those sorts of cardio, with a little bit of resistance or strength training, appeared to be the most beneficial. Yes, exactly. But, you know, we have to be really careful what this review can and can't tell us. So it can't confidently determine that exercise works better for mild or severe depression. So I think it depends where on that spectrum, people are and whether certain types are superior for specific people. Like I know you and I probably

would benefit more from from yoga and stretching and other people probably would get more gain from the brisk walk or walking up the stairs every now and again. But the takeaway is so important, Ella, that, you know, exercise isn't a panacea for health in total, but the evidence does suggest it's powerful. It's a tool that's free. It doesn't cost any money to do. It's accessible. And if anybody's feeling down, I will add, when you are depressed, it's actually difficult to do something like this. Really, really difficult. And I think that's an incredibly important side note, finding the motivation to go in a difficult period of your life is not to be underestimated. I think for me, the big take home from this headline and all this research, though, again,

is it's just a reminder as well that these small things make a difference to all of us, no matter how we're feeling, it's actually blue Monday today as we're recording. Oh, is it? Yeah, we record the Monday before the episode comes out. The marketing hype day begins. But again, it's just like, it's that time of year where I think most of us don't feel 100%. It's dark, it's cold, it's raining again.

You know, finding motivation to do things isn't always easy. And so I think it is just an important reminder again that the basics matter so much. And I think sometimes, and like looking at myself here, sometimes, you know, be like, why don't I feel motivated? Why don't I feel amazing, kind of all great in myself today? I'm like, right, I haven't been outside. I've spent four hours, doom's crawling. I haven't slept well.

I didn't sleep well. I've had three coffees. I know we all do that sort of thing all the time, but it's just the reminder that actually, like, we've got to move our bodies. It's imperative for our mental health. And it can be literally through cleaning your house. It doesn't need to be more than that.

Or going from walk around the block. Yesterday, I'd been in nearly all day with the children. And it got off. I made a roast dinner. After the roast dinner, it was like 4.35, we did a scooter walk around the block. So I have to get out the house. You always feel better. So much better.

Exactly. And it's just, yeah, sleep, stress, movement, obviously diet. They really, really matter. And what also matters, of course, is our diets and nutrition. So the headline that we have next headline to is that adults in England, Ella, are eating 155 packets of crisps a week in salt. What a headline. What a headline. Ria, I know you've done quite a lot of press on this headline as well.

so I'm going to let you take the way on it. That headline in particular, the 155 packets of Chris a week, came from Sky News. But it's all based in this new analysis that, as I said, Reeves been speaking to a lot from the British Heart Foundation. But it is a good headline that we're eating 155 packs of Chris a week. I imagine a lot of people clicked on it. Very good clickbait. I think really good clickbait.

But also, when it came in, so for me it was on the global BBC Radio 4 shows under quite a bit of pressure. I got the call 10 minutes before going on. So I had to quickly look up what I was going to say. Do you get nervous in those moments? Do you know, I get, this is so weird, I get excited. Yeah. Yeah, it's like that high energy kind of like adrenaline. Yeah.

I'm like, great, finally, we've been overconsuming salt for years. We've got more mainstream press on this. Maybe it'll make a difference in my head. I'm thinking, right, everyone's getting around 8 grams. It's the last stat last year. They should be getting six. And I'm thinking about the ultra-process food consumption, of course. So the study here from the British Heart Foundation found that working age adults in

England are consuming 8.4 grams of soul today. Now that is 40% higher than of course our recommended 6 grams a day. And even the recommended amount will vary from person to person. Also from gender, we're starting to create in this country more gender devised nutrition targets, which we've never had before. Everything's been based off male bodies. We're going to be diving into that a bit actually on Thursday, which I'm excited about. Yes. So, so important to discuss. And to make it easier to visualize, they got this packets of crisps at that the salt equivalent of eating, you know, 22 packets of crisps a day is 155 packets worth of salt each week. I like these illustrative ways of doing it because when you say you're eating 8.4 grams

of salt and you should be eating 6 grams of salt, it's sort of like, it's very difficult to imagine for a layman, like just for me, I'm sitting here. I'm like, what does that really mean? Because it doesn't sound big eight grams. It doesn't sound big and eight doesn't sound that much bigger. than six either. But when you say 40%, it feels a lot bigger. But then when you visualize the amount of salt in a packet of 22 packets of crisps, you suddenly think, oh, no, maybe that's a bit too much salt. Yeah, because around 85% of the salt in our diets already is from the food we buy, because

of course, we're a nation that consume more ultra-processed foods. Some naturally have higher levels of salt, but I'm talking particularly here about bread. You know, breakfast cereals in the morning, you'd be surprised, ready meals. You know, salt is a preservative. It helps retain flavor, it helps preserve the food for longer. But it's a real problem because of high blood pressure and it's a silent killer. That's what we call anything that links to heart disease. I think all of us know someone affected in my side of the family. It's big and my dad's side. You know, three in 10 adults in the UK are thought to suffer with hypertension. Which is high blood pressure. Yeah, and they don't know it. That's the problem. And around

five billion don't know they have it. And that's quite scary. Also, heart disease is the biggest killer for women in the UK just to throw that in there as well because I think a lot of the time we associate high blood pressure with men. I don't know why that is, but high blood pressure is linked to around half of all the heart attacks and strokes and the British Heart Foundation estimate that reducing your salt intake, which is what we're striving to do, but down to the world health organizations guidance, which is five grams. So in the UK we say six. Actually, World Health Organization says five and that could prevent a staggering 135,000 new cases of coronary heart disease over time. And alongside that, you've got all the extra things that come with that like dementia,

problems of your kidneys, reducing the risk of stroke. It's not that salt's bad at it, it's just we all overeat it and we don't realize. I think that point is really important, though, that salt isn't bad. Like if you're cooking from scratch at home, you're making a lasagna this evening, a tray bake, there's nothing wrong with adding a little bit of nice salt, your onions and your garlic as they're cooking. Like that's, we want food to be flavoursome, you want to enjoy it. That's not the problem. The problem is that also when you are making stuff on a much bigger scale, you don't have the same level of flavour. And also the flavour is going to change and often dip over time. So again,

when you're thinking about the manufacturing side of this, you end up adding way, way more salt oftentimes, and we've definitely seen this kind of exploring that side of the market, then you would ever do if you're making the equivalent meal at home. If you put that much salt in the meal at home, it would taste really overly salty. But just because of A, the other ingredients often lacking as much flavor as if it was kind of fresher and B, the longer shelf life oftentimes, yeah, salt is added in excess. And this is what we talk about when we say HFSS, you know, high fat salt and sugar in the UK. And initially the ultra-process food conversation just focused purely on these ingredients,

you know, how much salt, how much sugar, how much fat. And now, of course, we know there's potential knock-on effects of additives and emulsifiers as well. But Ella found this analysis reported by the economist that showed that it's a popular food because six billion packets of crisps are sold in this country a year. Exactly. So obviously when I was looking at the 155 packs of crisps a week, I was like, I know we don't eat that many. But I remembered something before about the insane number of crisps that we do eat in the UK.

I mean, I do love a good crisp. I love a crisp as well. But we consume 6 billion packets of crisps. Well, we sell 6 billion packets of crisps a year in the UK. So if you were going to translate that, that's about 140 to 155 packets per person per year. So we're not eating 155 packs a week. That's just the salt equivalent. But we are basically eating 155 packs a year.

But it starts young. It goes in lunchboxes. And I remember in the unprocessed plate book doing this diagram of the processing, you know, of crisps. Because Ella and I have both discussed before, not all crisps are potato. No, and not all crisps are equal, like all of these things. So there is a hierarchy. But I think the takeaway is simple, everybody. Let's just have a little reminder.

I know we all know it. We know not to consume too much salt. But we still are. We still are. And again, I feel like a broken record. Or we could say a parrot parrot parroting the same thing the whole time. But again, it just comes back to the same thing. Like, we just need to cook from scratch and we need to cook at home more

because the easy way to get around this is to make more meals yourself. Like if you tonight make a delicious, big, spicy, creamy coconut milk-based doll, for example, put spinach in it, some tomatoes, lots of cumin and spices. And as I said, garlic and chili and all the rest of it delicious. You can have that for lunch tomorrow. take that in a Tupperware or whatever it is, an easy container to work and have that. You can cook with some salt in that and I can guarantee if you had that instead of say like a classic British meal deal, you would have infinitely less salt and it will be so delicious.

You'll have fibre, you'll have plant protein. It'll be so much cheaper as well. And then you can use your lunch break to go for a little walk. It's not about being perfect and it's not about being like overly micromanaged. But I just think, again, it just speaks the same thing. We've got to get back to our easy cooking at home more often. And I'm going to add what I mentioned the other week about my dad on Christmas Day. Dad, I know you listen.

And just to use it as an example, the generation that still adds salt to their food, even when there's already a lot of salt, before even tasting it. Because I think not to put any shame, especially not on my own father, because I love him to pieces. But, you know, I think it's habitual. I do think that it is a habit. oh, where's the salt and pepper shaker? It's on every table and every restaurant. Yeah, exactly.

So try your food first. Yeah, try the food first. Let's do the taste test. Yeah, and use that as a reminder just to cook from home a little bit more if you can, when you can. You find loads of delicious recipes and quick wins as well if you need it. At Medcan, we know that life's greatest moments are built on a foundation of good health, from the big milestones to the quiet winds. That's why our annual health assessment offers a physician-led, full-body.

checkup that provides a clear picture of your health today and may uncover early signs of conditions like heart disease and cancer. The healthier you means more moments to cherish. Take control of your well-being and book an assessment today. Medcan. Live well for life. Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. I'm so excited to tell you about my brand new cookbook Quick Wins, Healthy Cooking for Busy Lives. I wrote this one to make healthy cooking just simple when life is busy. So you'll find fridge sappers, one pound wonders and batch cooks that you can turn into two easy meals. Plus, we have eight weeks of delicious meal plans to complete with shopping lists. So all the thinking's been done for you. Every recipe also gives you plant points to help you eat more plants

so you can get your 30 plants a week. It'll all help you feel great and just make healthy cooking feel effortless again. So Quick Wins is out now wherever you get your books. Okay, headline number three, people who stopped taking weight loss jabs regain weight in under two years study reveals. I'm sure you guys saw this because it was absolutely everywhere over the last few weeks. That headline in particular came from The Guardian, but it was all written up following a major new study that was published in the British Medical Journal, the BMJ. And it was just adding, I guess, more noise, more depth, more information to this very, very fast-moving, fast-developing conversation around all of the new weight loss inject. and medications, your Monjaro, your Weger-Viazempic, etc. There's 1.5 million people, they think now in the UK taking this, but obviously, as we know, there's a big black market, so the number

is probably a lot higher. This study in particular was led by researchers at Oxford University, and they analyzed 37 different existing studies involving just shy of 10,000 participants, all of whom had used these various weight loss medications. On average, people took the medication for 39 weeks with a follow-up period of around 32 weeks after stopping. And while they were on the drugs, they lost on average 8.3 kilograms, a huge amount of weight. But once the medication was stopped, and this is the important part, weight gain was both rapid and consistent. And on average, people regained 4.8 kilograms, so just over half the weight within the first year, but with all the weight that they had lost returning at a rate

of about 0.4 kilograms a month. And by just over a year and a half, people had regained all the weight they'd last. They'd returned to their original weight. So it's just an important thing, I think, to note for a whole variety of reasons, but the idea that we see these drugs as these like shortcuts, I think this really shows as a myth.

They're not shortcuts because really, and this is what all the scientists were saying around this is you've got to be on this for life. and we don't have enough research really on being on this for life yet. And that's expensive. Very expensive. At the moment, as far as I understand it, for lots of the drugs, the NHS only prescribes two years. So what does that look like?

I mean, that would have to be changed. And the cost of that is obviously exponential. If you start this and you're on it for 50 years, I mean, it's huge. I mean, this is why, you know, it was originally developed for people with diabetes. And then it became available for those that perhaps need a bariatric surgery. that were over a certain threshold in terms of weight, but the problem is it's become so normalized for those who just wanted to lose a few pounds or a few kilos.

And like we said, we do think there's so many positives to this. You know, we're not saying that it's terrible. But actually, it's just the same as yo-yo dieting if you don't change your behavior. If you don't change your diet, if you don't change your nutrition, if you don't use it to your advantage to kickstart behavior change, you can put it on four times faster than even a fat diet

after a weight loss pill because your body, your hormones, your peptide hormones that tell you when you're full and satiated and signal with your brain, they're basically saying, wow, I've been halted from doing my job, let's go. And they go on kind of mega mode. Absolute mega mode. And I think that we need to caution short-term use without having a long-term plan completely because these are powerful medications. And I think they've almost become known in society as almost like Botox, like everyday.

also I'm not saying Botox is bad. I'm just saying they're known as everyday items. No, completely. And we've had questions and, you know, completely understandably so, from the way that these were kind of heralded as this miracle, essentially, like, can you use them for a summer bikini bod? Well, they've also helped people conceive, though, as well. You know, they've lost the weight and then they've got pregnant,

but then what do you do afterwards? Exactly. But I think if you're kind of feeling like any temptation or pressure to use these as like the quick way of losing half a stone before your summer holiday, Please don't feel that pressure because ultimately it won't work. And I think what's so important to kind of overemphasises exactly what we said is that they're comparing it to structure programs where you're really, really fundamentally changing your diet and your exercise generally to a much healthier approach. And people who had done that versus people who had been on these weight loss drugs, people who'd done the weight loss drugs and then stopped them versus stopping the exercise or weight loss plans, medication approach, regain weight four times faster, four times. Like, that's, that is absolutely

mega. Well, that's just so that's why we've got to be really careful. And Catherine Jenner, actually, she's the executive director with the Abusee Health Alliance. She summed it up so clearly. And she said, you know, you've got to stop looking at weight loss as a failure of the individual, but instead it does really reflect the reality of living in a food environment that continually pushes people towards unhealthy options. And this was echoed by an NHS spokesperson. who also said similar, while these new treatments are an important new tool for supporting weight loss, they are not a magic fix and must be paired with behavioural and lifestyle wraparound support, including advice on healthy diets and physical activity to keep the weight off long term.

And when we originally trialled these drugs, Ella, that's what it was. You had a psychologist, you had a nutritionist, but no one has that. No, well, we're doing that's very, very expensive. Or they're using chat GPT, and that's another headline we must discuss for nutrition advice. And it's not all it's cracked up to be. And mental health advice. There's been, I actually got really deep. I think it was on the cut.

I will get it for next week. Please do. Maybe we can pop it in. There was a really good article about someone who, because there's lots of advice out there now for saying, please don't use chat chit for therapy. And this person had used it after a breakup. And it was basically going through the process of just showing how chat TPT,

you know, is often said that it's too sycophantic, which it is. You know, you ask it a basic question. And it's like, great work, Ella. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not great work. Would you like it in five different ways? Exactly. It's like, that's not great work.

And basically I'll something's red or blue. It's not great work. But in that sense, it's like very sycophantic. So it's like continuously validating and validating and validating your viewpoint. And actually that can be quite dangerous. It makes up studies. It makes them up completely. It really does.

Oftentimes I will then say, where has this come from? Give me a link. And they do. And then it's not, it doesn't exist. The link's not valid. Yeah. 100%. It's so true.

It's so true. If you want something kind of really basic that's kind of widely reported, that can normally be true and you can normally validate that. But no, yeah. I'm sure you spoke about it with your publishers as well, Ella. But when I was on a shoot last week with my team at DK, they were saying the amount of proposals you get now, there are obviously from chat GPT, book proposals. You know, they must see in publishing a huge rise of people not actually writing books and just getting chat GPT to do it all. the referencing, if you're not actually trained on how to reference, especially scientific literature, it's so obvious.

Yeah, I bet it is. Yeah. You could see right through it. Actually, I was reading something else exactly was saying, like, now what we actually want, I'm not very good at spelling. And I was always really embarrassed about that. Yeah, me too. I've never been fantastic. Yeah. But actually people have been saying, and I've been reading people saying, like, actually now look for spelling mistakes because it shows it's human. And actually, that's a trend will pick up on in the next few weeks. I mean, I'm a typo queen, as you know.

But it shows it's human and it's actually written by human, but there's quite a lot about one of the trends potentially for this year. And yeah, we'll pick it up on a future episode being adding friction, like friction maxing. In terms of stopping this kind of robotic, AI, totally digital way, where everything should be the click of a button so easy. It's like we almost need friction back in our lives to show that we live in a human-driven world. I agree.

And the return of analogue. Yes. The trend I'm also like in which we should discuss in another episode is seeing people, make songs or read out their trolling comments. Oh my gosh. Jamie Lang did it. Jamie did it. Fern did it the other week. And I just, I don't know if I have the guts or confidence to do that myself. I don't know if I want to go back and read them all.

Oh, I don't write any of them. No, no. We've all got them somewhere. But I thought that was a really good trend. Right. That moves us on to our what's trending and wellness. I know. What a perfect segue. We didn't even write it, guys.

We didn't. Okay, we've got two trends today. The first one is just a fun one, really. I've been seeing so much about this recently but the trend is super salads and also sweet treats really but there was a piece in the times last week I think and the title

was forget avo on toast the treat for Gen Z is a £12.50 super salad and it said a decade ago millennials were being roasted for their avocado on toast flat whites and Netflix subscriptions the stereotype was clear too many little luxuries not enough saving for a house

fast forward 10 years and that generation has aged into their 30s and 40s, discovered budgeting apps and pension contributions and has been replaced by a new cohort with very different treats. And to Gen Z. Exactly. So they said this is a generation that's far less likely to see home ownership, which, of course, you know, it's really sad or traditional milestones as immediately attainable. And so the spending shifted.

So a Barclays survey, so the bank in the UK, a Barclays Bank, shows that consumers are actively swapping out luxuries and big ticket purposes. purchases in favour of smaller, more affordable treats. And those treats, I just can't get over it, now look so different to what they were before. This had been picked up as well in like the FT, the Guardian, like everywhere. So it's legit. This is actually their spending habit. Talking about the modern status lunch, particularly in urban areas, is a £12.50 customizable super salad. And I mean, I've seen it. We did a project with the salad project, which is one of these places.

You took me there? You treated me to a large salad bowl. Yeah, they are fab. I mean, they are expensive, but they have had. But people will queue and do queue for like a solid 30 minutes for it, which is extraordinary. And yeah, the Guardian's title was the £13 salad is coming for your lunch money. I know. Move over the £6 coffee. It's the £13 salad.

You know, add it all up in a day, though. If they're getting a match or a coffee in the morning and then they're getting a lunch there, and let alone buying a bottle of water, you're spending a fortune every week on food, which is why... That's why you need to batch cook your doll. I was just about to say, we need to take our own lunch. boxes. Do you know I have a lunchbox ebook? Oh, do you? Yeah, but I wrote it pre-COVID so I might

have to update it but yeah, I mean, it's You should because there's so much in that of I mean I love left-over. I took loads of pictures of them all, you know, but kids ones, family ones, like lunch with like little smiley sandwiches and things as well as like anyway, ignore me. When I'm feeling really domestic and my kids need a pat lunch, I'll do like a

hot shape sandwich. Yeah, exactly. Let's move back to the fact that the popular brands in London at the moment in the UK are Farmer Jays. I remember that first came about Ella. Your salad projects in there, that used to be, or is still opposite your office, yeah, exactly. Urban Greens, Attis. And the salad project alone serves 6,000 salads a day. Yeah, according to the financial time. So this is just really popular anyway. I mean, it's better than a terrible ultra-process sandwich with no filling. A hundred percent. It came from the US where

there's a brand called Sweet Green, which some of you guys might know. They were founded in 2006. They're now valued at $4 billion. And they were all about making salads feel cool. So that's obviously just what people are doing now. Farmer Jay just raised £17.5 million, according to Forbes. Because I don't want to buy. What I can't bear about salads is not only they're cold, but in the UK it's nearly always cold. It's the fact that traditionally they were just iceberg lettuce leaves with a few cherry tomatoes and a bit of cucumber.

Maybe a grated carrot. Oh, and I'm like, why would I just want to eat that? I'm not a rabbit. No, exactly. Whereas salads are bougie now. They're incredible. You can get butter beans and miso tofu and all these different things in these places. I mean, it's a different landscape, but it prices people out. Completely. Anyway, it's all been kind of put into this bracket called treatinomics where essentially treats are being redefined. And it used to be like the occasional coffee or something. And now people are treating themselves, these lunches, matches, as you said, a reformer Pilates. class, collagen sachets, all the rest of it. So I think treats used to be about indulgence and now the interesting thing is there's a sense of a little bit of function in it, like helping you feel good, energize, small ways to improve your life when bigger financial milestones feel out of reach.

So it's a really interesting premise, a kind of silly headline, but nuts to see that you can sell 6,000, 12 pounds, 50 salads a day in London. I actually think if the pricing changed, I think it's a really putting the government help with that, a really positive trend because I did my 2016 throwback on social, you know, that trend that's going around. Oh, yeah. And I had to go into Facebook to find the old pictures because I couldn't bear the thought of scrolling down my Instagram page 10 years ago. And I used to go with friends.

I used to have all this time before I had kids. And I would treat myself. It was a treat to go to a Pilates class with a friend and get a matcher. So maybe that we were ahead of the curve because now. Trendsetter right here. Yeah. I wasn't out boozing away. I was maturing.

Matchering and Pilates thing. Yeah, but not very many places sold it back. That's why I used to go to your deli. I used to go to all these places called like Raw Press and the juice I can't remember the juice bar and Covent Garden. There's loads of these places. Lab Organic it was called.

There's quite a few of them. I know now I can get matching everywhere. Every Starbucks. Every Starbucks. I know. It's everywhere. Trend number two.

Trend number two is a really interesting end to this episode, I think. Also accidentally circles all the way back to our conversation around the aura ring and tracking devices at the beginning. just in terms of the potential kind of over analysis and fixation on health stats and whether it's helpful. I can see how you found this trend. It's like good timing in your zone and your...

It was really interesting timing. It was speaking to me. Anyway, it was from the Times and the title was Uber rich lead rise in diagnosis of longevity fixation syndrome. The obsession with living for as long as possible is now a disorder, seen in a range of people with clinics and therapists reporting more patients seeking help. And it's one of those things to dismiss a silly and kind of frivolous, and it does speak to this worried well cohort. But ultimately, that is, as we know, when we look at stats of how many people are buying things like tracking devices, an enormous cohort of people. It is not just solely the over-rich who they're talking about in this article. But so was orthorexia when that was first suggested in the clean eating thing like as an eating disorder. And actually, I would say this is like orthorexia, fixation on trying to be pure and live forever.

It was exactly that comparison I think was made in the piece because it is. It's this and it's a really hard balance. And as I said, that was why I took my aura ring off because I was like, I don't think this is helping me. I think this is making me stressed about being stressed. Can you let us know everyone listening on the Spotify comments or somewhere. If you genuinely love your device, like do you really love your wearable tech or are there moments of? Yeah. And also, you know, how easy do you guys find it to?

strike this balance because it is a difficult one to find. We know that how we live our lifestyles is very, very important to our long-term health. And for most of us, having good long-term health and a great health span so we can get the most from our lives is important. Like, we want to live the longest, health years. I want to be around for my kids. That's my biggest thing. Yeah. I just want to be there. Exactly. And in like with the best energy you can bring, least aches and pains, you know. But how much is too much? And it's, you know, how long's a piece of Well, go into what they said about Brian Johnson, because that's obviously the extreme example, isn't it? Yes, exactly that. And, you know, it is a really interesting one. So you guys probably remember us talking about

Brian Johnson quite early on, actually in the history of the show. So if you were listening, say, like, 10 months ago also. But he's an American tech on Trimilar. He's probably the most visible symbol of this longevity obsession because his entire life is structured around trying to slow or reverse aging. The reports show he spends kind of several million dollars, if not tens of million dollars a year, on medical tests, supplements, strict diet protocols, constant biometric monitoring, experimental treatments, highly controlled and wildly highly controlled routines. He did a Netflix documentary. And he didn't go outside, did he?

Because he didn't want to be under the sun's rays at all. No, and then he talked about things like, it's really hard to date because he doesn't eat after. I can't remember, but it was like 2pm or something. Yeah, no social life. Quite hard to go on a dinner day if the only thing you consume is water. but I don't think he could consume water as strong as he had special water. Yeah, he had special everything.

So it's, you know, obviously he's the extreme, but it is this like example of, you know, how much do we need to measure and optimize everything in pursuit of perfection as opposed to just kind of try and move the dial and get that five a day and that movement and that 30 grams of fibre, etc. And yeah, whilst he isn't obviously the cause of this trend, he's sort of become its epicenter.

and his extreme approach almost kind of normalized, not that level of extreme, but a level of dedication to managing aging and almost trying to be aging, which is just complicated. It's just it drives mental health disorders, you know, because we're focusing on the fixation on longevity, increases anxiety and the World Health Organization, as we know, has identified loneliness as a significant risk factor. And actually the irony of this is that if you are this kind of hyper optimization person, you know, everything has to be chasing this one goal, you can become so isolated from all of those societal functions with other human beings that we actually need to be healthy. So it's quite counterintuitive. It really is. I got into last week when I was having my dedicated scrolling time. Is that the week we both said we fell, we have no friends? We're like, oh, what happened?

Do I do you need to get out more? I can't remember when this was. Anyways, I ended up on the algorithm and I was watching people's routines and I was becoming fascinated by it because it was all of these things where, goodness me, they were dedicated but they were like literally two and a half hour long routines. They go out for like an hour walk at 5 a.m. just to be able to get the steps in. Totally.

And then there was, you know, radio frequency, vibration plate, red light mask, supplements, all the rest of it. But it was literally like two, two and a half hours long. then there's the kind of evening routine. And essentially, yes, it seems impossible to do anything because you've got to go to bed at kind of 7pm and get up at 5 to fit this all in. And that's like, what life are you living?

And I don't mean in a really judgmental. I just mean it. And I think we have to be careful with optimization. Like we have to be careful with the way that we're collectively living because we don't eat enough vegetables. We don't move our bodies enough. We are overstressed and underslept.

But equally, we don't want to go to the other extreme of, as you said, it's that balance with orthorexia. We just give us a definition of orthorexia, actually, for anyone who's not sure. Yeah, happily. So it's a drive to focus on all things that are pure, like the nature fallacy, you know, natural items of food. It was called, you know, eating clean, which essentially could be seen in two different ways. I think initially it was only ever meant that term to be moving away from ultra-processed foods,

but actually the media picked up on clean eating quite negatively. But that is because there's a darker side, of course, you know, that, It can become a complete drive that all you can think about every single day is what meal you're having next with orthorexia, what calories are in it. It's very similar to anorexia, but the drive is that you wouldn't buy a bottle of water because, you know, it might be contaminated with microplastics. You'd never drink it, even if you were literally so thirsty, your mouth was so dry. I used to have clients in the clinic that, you know, it's not an official diagnosis in the DSM, which is where we diagnose eating disorders, the diagnostic statistic manual. But the term meant it interfered so much in their everyday lives. They wouldn't eat at a certain restaurant if it was next to cars of carfumes going past it, which makes sense.

You know, all of this is common sense. It's good for your health to be thinking of these things. But when you can't do that every now and again, as a social occasion, or it's a birthday party and you won't go because you don't want to have to eat a shop-bought cake rather than a homemade cake, that is a disordered eating pattern. And it's very similar to this because, you know, there's no leeway. If you are a Brian Johnson, that is your drive. That is disordered. And I also, in the clinic, used the example of marathon runners, ultra-marathon runners a lot, because I'm not saying this is true for every ultra-marathon runner,

but you've got to be a certain personality type to put your body through such an extreme at all costs and have that drive. There is a slight disorder pattern there and behaviour because you've got to be a certain way to be able to do something that's so unbelievably difficult. difficult and drastic. So yeah, orthorexia, I remember giving a talk in front of, that's where I met Tim Specter at the Royal Society of Medicine on this back in 2016. And it wasn't in my 2016 throwback Ella. I should have, I should have put that in. But it's serious. And I think cases have raised drastically. I mean, sometimes I question myself. I panic about microplastics and things, but not enough

to stop me getting my coffee on the go or that bottle of heavy on at the airport. Yeah, that flexibility is super important and it's exactly that I think it's seen as very different but very comparable here where the idea that like time you might spend with friends family you know doing something you enjoy having a glass of wine on a Friday night you know whatever it is going out for pizza with your friends or family you're not going to do because instead you're like oh it will affect my metrics my metrics where I won't have perfect numbers and you know yeah things can suffer as a result and the one thing that I did think was interesting is that experts were pointing out in the article that, you know, what's being driven by?

Well, actually, there's a collective feeling of a loss of control in terms of, you know, tech, huge rapid technological changes, very existential threats in terms of kind of global political climate, coupled with environmental changes, climate change and huge economic challenges across the board. And, you know, ultimately it's almost like people then want to control what they can control. And the information just can quickly slip from, like, empowering and helpful and just nudging you to go to bed a bit earlier. That's really helpful. We know alcohol's bad now.

We know salt and sugar's not great. Not having a massive meal just before you go to sleep. When you're at home and you're by yourself or you know, you can change it. But it's to make sure that you don't then apply the same information to when it's your friend's birthday and going out for a nice evening. Exactly. It's those little, it is those quick wins at home that we need to focus on instead of looking too fast sometimes I think. It's great to think, wow, I've had this meal today. that's really good for my long-term health.

That's fantastic. But if it becomes all-consuming and then you can't eat anything else or go anywhere, then yeah, I'd definitely take a step back, take step back, seek some support. Exactly. And that's where I think that kind of 80, 20, 75, 25, whatever it is that works for you, not rule, but kind of gentle framework structure, way of thinking is really helpful, which is that ground your lifestyle, your cooking in nourishing, home-cooked, lentil-rich, you know, bean-rich, carrot-rich, carrot-rich,

meals that are really great for you and the rest of the time just relax enjoy yourself it's so so important perfectionism doesn't exist and chasing it isn't good for our health it really really isn't interestingly on that subject it brings us back to how people appear as well in the media at the moment and everyone's looking a bit samey and different procedures and it's mind-blown so same you know I haven't seen Hamnet the movie I'm sure lots of our listeners have but there was actually a whole article this weekend in praise of Jesse Buckley, who's the lead's face, praising the fact that she has such beautiful expression in her face that carries the weight of the emotion and the grief and the expression of the movie because we don't really see that much anymore.

And what are we doing with this over homogenization? I don't know. It's really interesting. Again, curious what our listeners think. But I think as part of this kind of move back to analog and like actually wanting human now, we don't want a world driven by robots. I'm getting a home phone. Are you?

Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. I'm thinking about doing that. Because also, I mean, this really is an extra scoop conversation, but I'll pop it in here as it's relevant. I worry in emergencies, my kids aren't going to be able to unlock my mobile phone.

Yeah. They need to know how to call 999 on a home phone. And then I equally think it's going to be healthier for them growing up with a home phone to call a friend as a treat rather than looking at a mobile phone. I totally agree. And I've got no problem with them calling a friend. But I might get a pink one. I might make it really bougiella.

Oh my gosh. I'm really inspired. And it is the same thing because I end up turning my phone off the whole time just putting it away so I'm not distracted by it. You can hook it up to a mobile phone.

There's devices that Bluetooth-e they hook up to the mobile phone. But does it work if your phone's off? I don't know. That's a good question. Because as you said, I still want my mum, hey, Carmelah, to be able to get through to me if necessary.

And they can just ring the home phone. Yes. I mean, I just haven't had one for so many years. Maybe Kostran's a student. I just had a mobile phone. But now, see, there we go. Yeah, okay, 2026, the return of analog. We're all going back.

I love it. But I agree there is a homogenisation of things and we're all now looking for a bit of imperfection because it's a sign of being human. I mean honestly me and Ella this morning we walked in and Ella's like oh I feel a state and I know I've got two massive spots on my chin. Oh my gosh I have the biggest spot. I actually zapped it last night. Oh do you see? I'm trying not to touch my own. No no I didn't touch it. I've got these um Zit stick ass. Tell me I need this. Oh my gosh. They're so good. And then it's a silic acid in like a round circle. Exactly. And you're actually pretty invisible. I'm not wearing one but you can put

concealer over it and you can't really see it. Zit stick a as in like not sticker is an A not an ER at the end phenomenal.

It's like you know your body for me it was I had lots of shoots I had so much thick makeup on my face for over a week I wasn't sleeping and sure enough

I don't just get like generous acne I just get too corks A couple of boils Yeah proper proper boils All right everyone thank you before we go on to boils

thank you for listening this week we'll leave you with boils guys Thank you so we are human thank you so much for listening Thank you for being here for a year of Wellness Scoop.

Let us know, please, in Apple or Spotify, if you have been here all year. And just a reminder, please share this, comment or click follow, because all of that makes the biggest difference to getting the Wellness Scoop to more and more people. We love this community. See you on Thursday. Bye.