The Wellness Scoop - Fearne Cotton on Making Mistakes & Accepting Yourself

Episode Date: February 26, 2019

In this candid episode Ella chats to author, presenter and fellow podcaster, Fearne Cotton, about success and happiness; embracing our vulnerability, learning from our mistakes and finding balance in every aspect of life. From dealing with criticism to imposter syndrome, the impact of social media, the power of those around us and making peace with every version of ourselves, this episode discusses how happiness isn’t a destination, instead it’s an eternal work in progress. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Samsung Galaxy. Ever captured a great night video only for it to be ruined by that one noisy talker? With Audio Erase on the new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, you can reduce or remove unwanted noise and relive your favorite moments without the distractions. And that's not all. New Galaxy AI features like NowBrief will give you personalized insights based on your day schedule so that you're prepared no matter what. Buy the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra now at Samsung.com. Hi everyone, welcome to the Delicious Yellow podcast. So today we've got a really special

episode. I'm currently sitting in Fern Cotton's living room, which is as beautiful as you would imagine it to be. First of all, welcome Fern. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So lots of people are going to look at you and, you know, see you as kind of the epitome of success. You know, you've had an amazing career, done all kinds of brilliant things. You know, everyone's going to see you on their TV at home. You've got a gorgeous family family but at the same time you've been very very open and very honest about your kind of personal challenges and struggles and insecurities battles with things like depression and through your books especially being kind of incredibly vulnerable and for me there's something really powerful in that because I think we often can all walk into a room and feel that kind of social anxiety or feel like we're not good enough and especially with

women you know things like imposter syndrome are so rife and so common and knowing that people who have achieved as much as you have and who've managed to kind of find ways to push past that to me really kind of resonates and and I really want to kind of get into that today and hopefully everyone listening and definitely myself included can kind of resonates and and I really want to kind of get into that today and hopefully everyone listening and definitely myself included can kind of feel inspired by the fact that it's so so incredibly normal to feel that way and that we shouldn't necessarily be embarrassed about it and actually being open and honest about it can make a huge difference absolutely I mean that's what drives most of what I do is the fact that I want that connection with other humans and

I want to feel part of something whether that be a community or a conversation that's going on so that's very much the driving force in you know I'd say 80% of the work that I do yeah and so it feels like you've been on quite a kind of journey with it I think especially reading your book happy which is that that was your first of kind of quite of that series there was something in there that I really liked which is that you I was rereading it last week while we were away and you start the book by saying how kind of so many of us will just assume that happiness um exists in other people or that we can't really ever have it or you know you look at someone else and say they're happy actually I don't know if I'm happy but actually like it can exist for all of us and you've been on quite a kind of search for happiness and I'd love to know what kind of

started that and what the initial inspiration was yeah looking at that assumption part of things first you know of course we all make assumptions about each other. And that's heightened even more so today with social media and the internet. We think we know how everyone's feeling by how their life looks. And of course, there's absolutely no correlation. And there's not even that much correlation between being whatever someone else would deem as successful and feeling happy. There's no correlation at all. You know, how many incredibly talented people have we seen take their own life over the last sort of century? You know, we've lost some absolute greats who have had supreme talent and an amazing career ahead of them, but they've inside felt such despair. So we know intellectually that there's no correlation,

but we still assume that it means something. And of course, it is a wonderful thing to have done well or to have created something. That's an absolute joy, but there is still a life underneath all of that. And I felt I couldn't show the real me or talk about things that I massively wanted to because, you know, the BBC wouldn't want that or the TV show I was doing, it wouldn't be appropriate to be me. So I always zhuzhed it up a bit and was kind of a heightened version of myself, whatever was going on in my real life. And I just kind of got to an age,

I guess, and also through life experience, a place where I couldn't be bothered anymore and I just thought it's worth a punt it's worth just being me and seeing what happens and I had had a very bad year where there was a lot of darkness and I didn't feel there was a way out of it at points and I felt just that everything was so confusing that I needed to get it out of me and try and understand myself you know I didn't write that book so much for everyone else to go oh I relate to this story I think that happened by mistake afterwards a sort of secondary bonus I think at first it was to try and understand myself. And I was terrified about it coming out. I didn't know if people would, you know, reject me because I was telling the truth and being real. I didn't know if people would see me in a different light or think that

everything else I'd done was a load of rubbish. it was really scary but as soon as it was released I quite quickly realized it was a very connective thing to do I had all these wonderful emails letters people coming up to me in the street crying and hugging me and saying they'd had a tough time too and like wow I didn't expect any of that to happen and it kind of then gave me the courage to keep doing that. The more I can give in that way, the more hopefully I can help other people. And did you find, even from a completely personal perspective, kind of opening the door and saying,

okay, this is who I am, this is actually how I feel, was quite almost liberating. Because I remember when I launched Delicious Yellow I'd been sick for about 18 months and I hadn't really told anyone because I felt very kind of actually quite ashamed and quite uncomfortable and with that sense of kind of being different and and feeling alienated to people around me and so instead of being kind of honest with girlfriends and and people I just sort of shut myself away and when I I launched the Shusiela, I wrote why I was doing it and my kind of journey with that. And I was really blown away by people who said, well, do you know what? I've actually been dealing

with this. I've actually been dealing with that. And suddenly realized that like these things that you feel are alienating you are actually so incredibly normal in some capacity. We're going to all feel different things at a different point of our life, but so many people have been touched by something similar at some point, and it's actually very human. Of course. I mean, I think it's weird to have not felt like that at some point. I think you're the anomaly if you haven't felt alienated or ashamed or whatever, and our culture kind of breeds that unfortunately that

sort of um feeling or insecurity in us all and we have to buck against that because it's very destructive for many people including myself i'm sure that's much how you felt and i in a very similar way did feel like a complete freak if I'm honest with you I just thought god look at everyone else getting on with life dealing fine with everything and you know making good decisions and not cocking up and you know I felt like I was a massive failure and massively flawed and I didn't I wasn't comfortable at that point showing that I was fallible I didn't want people to see my wounds or my scars or hear stories and like you say that is a catharsis writing down things like that and therefore you know looking at accepting yourself for all that you are and

that is something I'm still very much, that's an ongoing learning curve. I'm not like, yeah, I fully accept everything about myself now. And I feel really great about all the things that I may have once regretted. Like, absolutely not. I'm still, that is work in progress. And I think there's no rush with that one. That's a massive part of life is accepting who you are, the good bits and the bad bits, which of course we all have in us and the

light and the dark and and all of that and embracing it or not even embracing it but just feeling okay about it I think accepting it because if we try and deny those parts of ourselves which you know we all have it's not like you know there's very few people maybe like the Dalai Lama who are just pure radiating light but we all have equal measures of good and bad and it's just how we process them and vent them or whatever and you know I think we I used to massively shy away from that you know in my sort of teens and 20s I didn't want to know anything about anything bad going on in the world about anything bad going on inside me any bad thoughts I just wanted to push it all to one

side and I think I've had to become much more accepting after having a dark period like that in my life that there is that darkness there I'm not getting away from it and as soon as I just go okay it doesn't make me a freak I don't have to feel ashamed all the other stuff that you pile on top of it I can just work through it and perhaps look at life in new ways and luckily my god I'm lucky I I had this sort of existing platform where I could write a book about it and I find that just a that was a sort of seminal pivotal moment for me realizing that I could you know exercise it in that way almost and it was it was terrifying but eventually became very liberating and were there any tools that kind of helped you to do it because I feel

like the one thing I've kind of feel and every time I speak to someone about it kind of instills it more and more is that and I think your book did the same is that happiness is actually it's all it's a constant work in progress like every second for every day of all of our lives like obviously maybe the Dalai Lama is different but for most of us you've actually got to have quite a lot of self-discipline almost in kind of every day doing those things that allow you to create that sense of kind of balance that allows that sense of happiness and what has there been anything yeah I mean no one wants to hear that it any kind of happiness contentment or just feeling okay requires discipline that's so boring I know

it's so boring but it's true yeah you know everyone wants like oh if I do this you know workout or this diet or I go on this retreat then I'm gonna reach this destination called happiness and I'll be like it forever no that's impossible and it's ridiculous and happiness is this kind of bizarre you know ephemeral thing that you know comes and it goes and we feel it and then it goes again and you know that's another thing we have to all accept that it's not omnipresent it's you know we can have a an omnipresent feeling of acceptance and hopefully a bit of calm where we know that even if we're not feeling brilliant it will come back and that we're going to have times where we don't feel so great to learn and to move

on and to discover new things I think the first thing we all have to do is remember that that we're not it's not a destination we're going to get to like if I get that job or if I get that girlfriend or if I get that best friend or if whatever it is I buy that house one day that we're gonna then feel happiness forever you know it's a crazy bizarre cultural myth that we subliminally believe I guess and um and we all fall into that trap at some extent you know like oh god even if I get that pair of shoes I'm gonna feel like a different person for a few days yeah and then you're gonna feel like you again get over it you know we all allured into that to some extent and I think we can still get joy and pleasure from working out eating well buying the odd treat for ourselves of course but as long as

we remember it's not the answer to anything you know the answer is like you said finding things that work for you that are a daily discipline so me and my husband are both massively on board with that he is a recovering alcoholic so he needs to have a real structure and discipline around his sort of contentment and happiness and and I've instilled a similar sort of routine into my life and it's really simple things and I've only really got to grips with them over the last couple of years where I truly know now what works me and what doesn't one of them is not to be too insanely busy because I used to work every hour of every day and I'm not saying that like oh poor me I loved it I bloody loved all of it I wanted to work until I was just exhausted and you, kind of flopped into bed and went into this deep coma-like state.

You know, I worked every day from 15, pretty much, until I had kids. I was obsessed, I was addicted, and I wanted to be busy, and I thought if I wasn't, I was failing or I was going backwards. And it's taken a long, hard look at myself and a big amount of time to remember that's not true and even now some days I'll go oh god I'm not as busy as I'd like to be today and it's like nope sit with that feeling what is it that you are worried about underneath that you think you're not good enough so it's just knowing my patterns and it is to overwork myself yeah having family was an absolute you know beautiful godsend because I naturally got

a different perspective on my routine and my life and I want to be at home with the kids more so that's a massive one for me also you know the obvious simple things eating well doing exercise and again not like I used to in my 20s I was like in the gym on the running machine sprinting sweating having a heart attack you know it's so not that anymore I can't I haven't got time for that I can't be bothered it's much gentler it's kinder it's more intuitive what do I feel like doing I don't beat myself up if I you know I'm never gonna have a six-pack I've had two children and my stomach muscles are around my shoulder blade somewhere I just I've given up I don't care about any of that. It's about feeling good. And it's also being with nice people and having a smaller group of friends and it all just being, it's just simplicity. If

things get over complicated or confusing, I feel thrown and spun out. So it's got to be much simpler, much easier and gentler. And then that's a great starting point for me I love that I've honestly found the exact same thing but do you find you have those moments I feel like FOMO is kind of you know it's a big part of modern life and obviously social media I think is a is a massive proponent of that and it's quite hard to kind of get away from the reality of that do you find that you know what makes you happy is actually just being at home with your kids cooking hanging out but that potentially sometimes you i don't know see on social media or online or in a magazine or something other people kind of be very glam or being out or doing this or doing

that and do you find you have those moments where you feel that kind of sense of missing out or that you're not god no i do not have fomoO I used to have it big time I used to think everyone was doing better than me everyone looked like they were succeeding more because my thing's always about succeeding or what I used to think success was it was never so much like oh look at them having a great time at a party because I've never truly felt comfortable in that space um my thing is oh my god they're doing a job that I'd like to be doing why didn't I get it my thing's always been FOMO of work success the drive I don't even have that anymore I usually feel sorry for them I think oh god poor bugger having to be out on a Tuesday night in a nice dress I think poor you look at me I'm in my pajamas watching the Clinton affair

on the tv and me and my husband have got a nice dinner i'm gonna go to bed at half nine i feel sorry for them like i've gone so the opposite way yeah jomo the joy of missing out is very much how i think and even with work like now i know my decision making is so much easier because i used to think right how do i become the biggest best respected presenter whatever silly goals that i wanted that don't mean anything and all my decision making was quite confused like I could do that and then I'd end up doing that and now it's like right how can we help more people and also realistically obviously how can I help my family because we're running a home and I have two slash four children with my

stepchildren massively included that I want to look after and I want them to have a nice life so there's that side of it but then the other side is if that bit's covered how can we help more people and that is my absolute sort of decision making thought now. And so when you've kind of made this transition have there again been anything that you read or kind of just generally that inspired you to I guess have complete confidence in being yourself because I think that's something that for everybody we would all like to be at that point where we're completely comfortable saying I don't want to do this I don't want to do that look it's brilliant that you do but I'm not going to be a

part of it but I feel like we all live in a bit of fear of that and was there kind of a moment or just anything in particular that sparked you to say do you know what I actually feel so comfortable with my own skin that it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing I don't think I'm even fully comfortable in my skin I but I think a lot of my decision making leads me to routes that will help me get to that place so so that's a nice point as well, that I know what's going to help other people and me. And it is usually doing work that connects me to other humans so I can hear other stories.

I'm not 100% comfy in my skin yet, but I would love to be there one day. But I think, yeah, I don't know if there was one particular moment. I think I've got some amazing people in my life that I've always used as a soundboard, particularly when I was going through, well, a couple of rough patches I've had. I've got a amazing people in my life that I've always used as a soundboard particularly when I was going through well a couple of rough patches I've had I've got a great friend called Zephyr who's an amazing yoga teacher and he's had an extraordinary life and she has always been massively encouraging about being authentic and truthful and and owning

it like not being scared of what other people think or being ashamed. And, you know, I've watched her tell her story many a time to many people. And she's had a difficult time. And she talks about it beautifully and eloquently. And you instantly see how that connects you and helps other people. I've certainly read like every self-help book available. And I'm sure by osmosis they've gone in and they've had some impact. But I think it's really down to the people around me and my husband's also amazing in the fact that he is just him and he doesn't help people think and he's had a kind of bizarre life as well and

and he's very open and happy to talk about it and be very honest about things so I've always seen the value in that in others I just didn't know if I could emulate it or do it until I tried and it was really taking that first massive jump leaving Radio 1 which I loved and I was there for 10 years but making a clean break and deciding that would be the moment where everything changed and I kind of just had to go with it and you don't know what's going to happen but luckily it turned out all right it's very I think a lot of people take a lot of inspiration from that so you've been working obviously for a while in this space or a few different spaces but within the public public eye and obviously when you started social media didn't exist and you didn't have kind of like god well that's why I wanted to ask you didn't have things like daily mail online and this kind of constant access to

people do have you found from your career perspective some things kind of shifted from that point where you could kind of start and do what you're going to do and you don't even you don't really know what people think to be honest you know maybe there's like a review in one paper about a show but now you do something and you go on twitter and like all these kind of complete strangers have an opinion on it how have you kind of dealt with that it's hard you know thank god that when I was 15 none of that existed because I think my career would have lasted about two months I couldn't have done it like how I just don't know if I could have if I would have had the robustness to deal with that I was a kid I was a teenager you know it was weird enough as it was coming from like a completely normal suburban working class background to all of a sudden finding myself in these bizarre

situations with pop stars you know like Cleopatra and whoever else was around in that era I found it all bizarre and sort of hilarious but but kind of magical because it was so different to my normal existence so it was weird enough making that transition to heap on top of that opinions of other people I couldn't have done it there's no way and you know I think we're all getting to grips with this and this is not exclusive to people in the public eye we're all getting to grips with people knowing our business or how much we share or other people's opinions all the assumptions we make about others it's bonkers and it's a bit of a free-for-all right now we're not

there are no set rules or guidelines we kind of know common sense around it but we forget and I'll find myself sat on the loo scrolling through Instagram whilst Jessie's struggling with the kids breakfast and I'm like wait a minute why am I aimlessly scrolling through this stuff I don't need in my head and I always fall into those sort of traps and I have found it difficult over the years I guess it started when I was doing more high profile work yeah in my 20s where social media was still in its infancy but you would have you know the first turning point tv critics all of a sudden noticing me and wanting to say something and sometimes to you know horrendous extents like saying unbelievably awful things not just about me or my work but me as a person and me personally I've been on the receiving end of

critiques before and I'm not a massive fan of that whole area of my business because I think unless you do that job what say do you have in being you know vehemently negative discriminative whatever it is about people and I used to think oh god they're right I used to take it all on board and think that I was a horrendous person that I'd caused a reaction like that so I found that really hard so when social media came about I was almost used to it I almost kind of knew people were judging me I've always been aware that I've had eyes on me since I was a kid you know 15 starting my first tv show I've always known people have been watching what I was doing judging whatever but I just didn't take it on board but then it's sort of inescapable once it's online and there's twitter and instagram

after that whatever and i have found it hard over the years i think now at 37 i'm at a place where i'm able to rationalize what's going on and think about where that other person's at and it's not really about me because they don't know me it's not really about me because they don't know me it's not really about my actions unless I've really cocked up then fine and there's a big difference here between constructive criticism if someone said to me look I listened to your podcast and I don't think you dealt with that situation well I would say oh my god let me go and have a listen back and readdress that if you have felt that it's impacted you negatively absolutely I would take that on board but if it's just I hate what you look like

you've got a big nose whatever I mean I don't need to hear it and I and also it's that's not about me this is about the person that's written it and what they are experiencing or how they view life but it's taken me 22 years to get to that place where I can now sit back and look at the bigger picture yeah that's what I always try and do try and have two buckets of criticism where you have constructive criticism where you're like okay I actually can learn from this thank you so much actually for taking the time to let me know you didn't really like that or you felt uncomfortable with that and I there's always a lot to learn even if you don't want to exactly it's hard it's not easy totally you don't you want to hear the positives because it's lovely but it's actually there's a lot to learn but then you have criticism for the

sake of criticism where people are just like I hate your voice I hate this I hate that you're crap and actually there's nothing to learn from that like it's you know put it in a box you should be you and I should be me we shouldn't be what other people want us to be because what's the point you'll never please everyone well that's the thing exactly you can't and you have to be you because that's why you're doing what you've done and you're at where you're at because you're you and you've had that drive and you've been able to put your goals into motion and create stuff and that's because you're you if you were thinking I should be more like this you'd be all over the shop do you mean the

same with me I've certainly made tons of mistakes and and you know done jobs I wish I hadn't done or whatever but I can look back and go yeah but I was just being me and at that point I wasn't the me I am today I was a different person and at that point I wasn't the me I am today I was a different person and I've got to you know the thing I've had to do over the years is make peace with all the different me's that have existed before so 15 year old me who kind of had a greasy fringe and buffalo boots on and was so naive and young to it all I can't slag her off I can't be embarrassed by her I can't think god I wish I hadn't worn that and I wish I hadn't said that because I was 15 and I've got to go actually well done 15 year old you

you worked really hard and you believed in yourself enough to keep doing it it's pointless to sit and berate yourself in the past you've got to go okay well whatever you did I've ended up here where I am now and I'm really enjoying the now so well done and it takes a lot of practice doing that one that's my worst question when you do an interview and someone says what would you do differently and you're like well I wouldn't I didn't know to do it differently at the time there's obviously going to be things you think oh god you know looking back I probably wouldn't have done this or that. And there's no exception to that. There's no perfect human who's cruised through life making, you know, brilliant A-star decisions.

And also, how boring would that be? Some of the greatest moments for me have come out of bad bits. You know, like happy. That didn't come because I'd had this brilliant roller coaster high and then celebrated myself and thought how brilliant let's write a book about it no it's the absolute opposite but a good thing came from it and we have to stop beating ourselves up and others about making mistakes because you have to otherwise how are you going to learn anything you don't learn stuff from like you know if I look back at my career some of the highs 24 I got to interview Prince William

Prince Harry and I couldn't believe it was like the most out-of-body weird experience absolute high loved every minute what a fantastic experience did I learn much from it probably not you know I I worked hard to get the interview to how I wanted it to be and I learned a bit in that way but I didn't life experience wise learn anything the bits where I've made bad decisions the bits where things haven't gone to plan I have learned so much that it's changed how I think as a person so we've got to stop a picking on others for making mistakes because we're so quick to on social media now oh you, you shouldn't have done that. Yeah.

Oh, you shouldn't be wearing that to that. You know, everyone is so quick on that one. They love it because they, for a minute, elevate themselves out of having ever made a mistake. Oh, I don't. But you, I saw you made a mistake there. Oh, you spelled that wrong. You know, the Instagram police are out.

Yeah. Let people make mistakes and then let yourself make mistakes. Because if you don't let yourself make mistakes, you're going to have a really tough time when you eventually do stumble because you're going to feel ruined and like you can't recover from it you know you have to make mistakes it's part of life absolutely and would you get nervous so for example like when you went to interview harry and william were you did yourself, were you kind of, did you get the kind of imposter syndrome, which we kind of all get? Yes. I mean, I felt it very early on because I didn't come from a world that was connected in any way to what I ended up doing. So, you know, I'd be sat in front of a camera thinking, oh my God, everyone else knows what they're doing. I

am blagging this one so badly. And in a lot of the work I do I still feel like that in some of it I really don't and I feel very lucky like when I'm and I'm lucky that I've got more autonomy these days so if I'm writing a book if I'm doing a podcast I can only speak the truth and talk about things that I believe in so I can't go too wrong because I'm working for myself essentially so I don't have it as much in those situations. But if I'm doing a TV show for someone else, if I'm doing a radio show for someone else, whatever, absolutely. I think everyone else around me knows what they're doing.

Every other DJ presenter is so much more qualified, is so much slicker, calmer, less nervous. I feel it all the time. And you just have to get some little positive mantras going get yourself out of it do some very basic breathing on that one I don't think it can be too complicated and just give it your best shot that's all you can do but I think we're all probably feeling like that 100% I think I mean I'm not sure what the stats are anymore but I think then especially with women yeah but I think men maybe even just as much but they don't necessarily feel as comfortable ready to admit it sometimes but I think we all have that sense of

imposter syndrome of standing there and being like why is it me that's here I don't deserve this I haven't worked for this or that you know everyone's gonna think I'm a fraud people are gonna be kind of pointing their fingers I get it all the time and I end up trying to work so much harder because I think to show them that I should be here or I am valuable in a end up trying to work so much harder because I think to show them that I should be here or I am valuable in a way I need to give so much more of myself when I don't really you know I can just be me but I always think I have to do so much more to validate why I'm there and that's something I massively need to work at still but it's back to that thing I think it's the same for everyone it's like a constant work in progress like I think it gets a little bit

better potentially as you find as you said those tools whether that's a mantra or kind of just very small breathing techniques or something but ultimately I think everyone feels that way and we all again look at each other and think that the other person has it completely figured out when they don't have it figured out at all so like you know I know people look at me and go I've achieved this or that or whatever tags I get given. But I feel like, especially since this big change in where I'm headed with writing the books and doing the podcasts and other work I'm doing in that area, I am at the first rung of the ladder. I have so many ideas and things I want to do and I'm in a bit of a rush and I shouldn't be. But I constantly think, oh my God, am I executing that well enough?

Am I actually going to do these things I've set out to do and I often feel like I'm failing or I'm not doing enough or people aren't responding in the way I want to things I constantly only look at the negatives and I think we're all you know really susceptible to that and should try and all focus more on what we have done or created or achieved in in any way and celebrate that so obviously you've addressed a little bit your kind of work-life balance as well so you're obviously spending more time at home yeah now that you're a mum and have you how do you manage that work-life balance because you obviously still have a huge number of work yeah commitments and projects even if they're a little bit different to what they used to be.

Yeah, it's tricky. It's easier today because I'm not at radio every day or I'm not committed to doing anything massively regular, which massively suits me at this point in my life. And I think because my goals have changed, I've been able to balance things a bit better to my liking because my liking will be different to my best friend's liking or my next neighbour's liking.

You know, whether you're a stay-at-home mum or a full-time mum, there is obviously no right or wrong, but you can look at your own personal barometer and think, what feels right to me? And mine is mixing up a bit of both. So, for instance, today we're doing this podcast and then I've got a bunch of emails to do because we're planning our next happy place festival which is really overwhelming but

exciting so I've got a load of logistics to sort out with that and then I'll have the afternoon with my kids and I'll pick Rex up from school and you know have bath and bedtime and all that jazz so my days are a lot more like that now or I might be you know tomorrow I'm working all day so we're doing a photo shoot for something and then next week it's half term I'm not working at all so I I'm very fortunate that I've 22 years down the line been able to have a bit more control over it it wasn't like that when Rex was born I was at radio one I felt heartbroken leaving him every morning to go to work but I didn't really have any other jobs at the time I was kind of all my eggs were in one basket

and I did used to feel highly stressed about um not being with him because that didn't suit me for other people it's absolutely fine though as I said there's no right or wrong but I feel like my balance at the moment is good it might might not be in June, July, August. It might be all over the shop again. But I just always try and balance it out and do what feels right. And also know that wherever you are, you love your kids. They love you. When you're with them, you can do some beautiful things and have quality time.

And also hopefully I'm showing especially, well not especially especially but I guess all of the kids but I love it that Honey and Lola the girls see me go out and do what I want to do yeah and Jesse's probably at home a little bit more than me at the moment because he's not touring so they have a a nice kind of back to front of traditionally what was seen in a home of the woman being more at home so I think it's positive for everyone on that note but it is a juggle and there are times where it feels overwhelming and tricky but the majority of the time I feel more at peace than I used to about it you share a lot on your social media about running and kind of general exercise yoga and things how much it

helps you what's your kind of go-to is it running um probably because I kill two birds with one stone by getting out in the fresh air I love being in the park and seeing trees and simple pleasures like that so I guess running but but yoga is also really important because I know I'm quite hyper naturally so I need to bring down the energy and not rush around and breathe a bit better. And the kids watch us, well, because Jessie's really into yoga as well, watch us do it, and then they might join in or be climbing on my back. And they both understand what yoga is, which I find lovely. Yeah.

And I hope that one day they find that a comfort in their own lives when they're teenagers, adults, whatever. So that is also a big one but yeah it's just any movement I don't care what it is I'm not fussy it's just as long as I'm moving and you find you need to do it kind of every day in some way I'd say sort of five to six days yes but as I said I'm not in the gym every day I might do 20 minutes of yoga I might like yesterday I had a 15 minute swim whilst the kids had their swimming lessons so it's just however I can fit it in as long as I've done a bit of moving yeah

I'm all right yeah I find the same way then we have one question then we ask all our guests at the end which is one practice or mantra or something that you live by or do every day that just kind of makes you feel a bit happier, a bit healthier? Mine is a very simple line that I have to force feed myself daily at some point, if not sometimes throughout the whole day, which is just I am enough because I constantly beat myself up for doing things wrong, badly, giving myself a hard time for not doing enough whatever it might be and just getting back to no no I'm enough it's it's fine even if things are going wrong don't feel great I am enough you know I may make mistakes I might do things sloppily but I am enough and that is fine and I don't I don't think I inherently believe it.

So I have to keep telling myself that all day long, every day. And I think it will probably get easier with time, that one. I love that. Well, Fern, thank you so, so much. Thanks for being so brilliantly honest with everyone today. Oh, absolute pleasure. And I'm so gutted Jesse's not here because he's so wanting to meet you. And if we don't have a bag of your muesli in the cupboard there,

it's like SOS situation and someone has to go out because he can't not have it. Okay, well, there'll be a box of muesli coming his way. Oh, bless you. Brilliant. Thank you. Thank you so much.

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