The Wellness Scoop - Fibre Fixes, Walking Wins and the Cancer Warning Debate

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

This week we’re diving into the wellness stories everyone’s talking about, from the call for cancer warnings on bacon and ham to the surprising science behind how one longer walk a day can transform heart health. We explore what the latest evidence really says about processed meat and nitrites, why fibre-rich foods like kiwi fruit could be your simplest gut-health fix, and how shared joy and connection might even help you live longer. Plus, we look at the rise of infrared Pilates, the “hot” trend promising better mobility and recovery, and ask whether the science really stacks up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are here as your host. I'm LML. And I'm Rihanna Nambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know that it can be very confusing, very overwhelming. And that's why we're here to cut through all that noise. And this podcast is going to be simple, fun and personal. Every week highlight of our working week, I think being here just absolutely love it. So just as always, just wanted to reiterate. massive thank you to all you guys who tune in, who take the time to message us,

leave comments, reviews. It honestly means so, so much. Please keep doing it, sharing it, spreading the word. Let's get kind of simple, accessible wellness for many people as possible. And Ria and I are loving it because we keep being number three in the charts, which three is my lucky number, so it's a bad place to be. But it's just really nice that this message is resonating with so many people. So we just wanted to say a heartfelt thank you this morning. We really do, everybody. Honestly, I think the show is built by you, actually. You give us the suggestions.

And Ella, your lucky number's number three. Yeah. How random. Is it from childhood or just always been number three? Can't give you any rational answer. I love that, but it is a lucky number. I don't know something round about it. It's lucky for us.

Always thought that. I don't have three of anything. I wasn't the third child. It's so funny, I can't tell you. But anyways. Okay. but we have more than three great headlines say we're what are we going to be talking about we really do right it is a really heavy show everyone so in a good way and an informative way the first is the new research that calls for cancer warnings on bacon and ham and we're going to go into that in depth and give our opinions today the science showing as well that one longer walk a day beats multiple short strolls why kiwi fruit could be the simplest natural fix for constipation and how shared happiness in relationship can lower stress and boost longevity, which just sounds incredible.

And our trend, the truth about infrared pilates, and whether the heat really does help. Okay, this is going to be so nice. Rhee, how are you? We've just had Halloween. Rie's got such a chic outfit on today. She's really embracing autumn. I'm like blushing, everybody. Honestly, when Ella said I looked chic this one, I said, oh my gosh.

I went for like comfy track suit vibes, but it's the color of the season, which is burgundy. She's super on trend this morning. I'm trending today, guys, myself. Halloween, it's been hectic. But so much research has come in my way, and I'm so excited. And I feel like I'm at that point again. My publishers must really dislike me at this point because we finish the book and then new research comes out. And I do this all the time.

And I'm like, we have to add this in. We've got new research on fiber and menopause that I was going. going through that's gone into the book. And it was so, so interesting, Ella, looking at the fact that studies that introduced protein, I'll give a little spoiler for the fibre formula, but studies that introduce protein into women's diets without looking at the overall quality of their diet had no impact whatsoever on their insulin levels, being beneficial for menopause. So it indicated in other research that the fibre perhaps may be more important.

I'm not saying protein isn't important. It does need to increase. but without fibre as well, no difference. Oh my gosh, I'm sat here in awe. My mouth's like on the floor, guys. That's actually fascinating. And I think so important just to pause on and not just have this as an aside actually, which is if I'm understanding correctly, basically this new evidence is showing that, yes, to your point,

we all know as you go into menopause, you need to increase your protein a little bit, but simply increasing protein. So simply just eating more chicken, more eggs, more beef, without increasing. fiber and looking at the overall quality of a healthy diet, you know, Mediterranean-esque, as we all know, whole food focused. Ultimately, you won't get the health benefits that you're looking for. That's what the studies suggest. And obviously we need more research, but I'm putting this one in the fibre formula and it's 2025 data. So I've been geeking out a lot because book edit stage is a lot of adding in. And I've even cooked, I think I was inspired,

to be honest, by our conversation last week. And equally the fact that after Halloween I feel so sluggish. Oh my gosh. Me too. I've had more sugar in the last few days than I have had in a long time. This morning I felt so rang, almost like a little bit hung over, bought a really good for catcher that I hang on the way from the station here to try and put myself up. My skin, Ella, like I know when it's, when I've had a lot of sugar, like I just finished the bags of candy kittens at night, of wild things. I'm basically eating all the leftover sweets. Anyway, yeah, I cook some dolls. How about you, Ella? I love it. I love doll. I'm a much more like cozy season cook.

I really like summer salads and dips and things like that. Obviously they're delicious. But I'm such a cozy season. Like I just love a really rich, chunky, hearty, like mushroom ragu or something like that. I've been perfecting my mushroom lasagna. I just love like cozy rich dishes. So yeah, I've been doing lots of things like that, which I'm just loving and freezing. And I, with as our John Lewis range, we did these little.

silicon freezer storage things, life-changing. I just popped a couple out for the girls' dinner last night. It's so satisfying. And what about your pumpkins? Because I did roast one of mine. It's really hard to cut a pumpkin. Can I just say, I dislike cutting pumpkins. I know.

And they're not quite as delicious either. They're like carving pumpkins as you're kind of all the different varieties of squash and things like that. I got different colours this year. It's almost like those funny Instagram memes that go around. So I got a little mini white one. I got a grey one, like a green blue one. And I haven't cut into the big one yet.

Spooky pumpkins. I had it all going on. It was good. I roasted it like you said and it was really nice. Okay, should we move on to our health headlines that matter? Although, Rhee, you actually have a really nice recommendation. That was so nice. We couldn't wait until Thursday to share it.

Okay, yes. Thank you. I nearly forgot to mention this. So my friend Lucy dropped me a message over the weekend. She's like, Re, I thought of you when I saw this because I know it's something you'd love to do. and I really appreciated her message. And if you go into Dunelm, the big shop,

you can pick up different labels for families and children for Christmas. You know, we're not far off Christmas now, everybody. And really sadly, so many go without. And I just couldn't ignore so many of these labels. And Lucy said the same. A lot of people were just simply asking for underwear, formula, for babies, just some chocolate for their children, or just any toy, anything. And they write out the age of the children.

they say the gender which is of course an optional thing to abide by and what they need on the label so it could be three or four items you get those items you pop your label on it in the bag and then you return it to the shop and they make sure that it goes to people and need and I just thought what a lovely idea it's so specific you don't feel stuck or overwhelmed with what do I give them they've written what they need I love that that is such a nice recommendation okay so done now everyone I'm sure there's more so if anyone has any other recommendations other similar things. We can all be doing over Christmas just to support community. Please, please do let us know and we'll keep sharing them over the next few weeks. We should do a shout out every

week to a really nice charitable cause. That's so nice. Yeah. So please share because I'm sure you guys have got loads of amazing suggestions. Okay, there is no good segue from that to Kiwis to relieve constipation. Let's be honest, but that's where we're going to go next as we dive into the health headlines that matter. So in case you're new here, in which case, obviously welcome, but this is the section where we break down the biggest health stories making news. Rhee, tell us about Kiwis. Yeah, maybe more effective than generic advice for constipation. So the NHS back guidance suggests that a Kiwi a day, alongside drinking enough water, is enough to help relieve constipation

in adults. Now, something we've always said in the clinic has try, if you're going through a period of rough digestion, two Kiwis a day. We normally say two. Also, Kiwis contain more vitamin C random fat than oranges proportion. So Kiwis are an absolute powerhouse. But the advice was reported by the BBC recently in the headlines that we were picking up. And it's again just about the benefits of fibre. And the study that showed one to two Kiwis a day can increase stool frequency. So how often you go and also the quality of your store.

Now, anyone that wants to have a look at whether they have good stalls or not or good poo is to go to the Bristol stall chart. And there's a comparison and you'll see the different. stages of poo. And really, there's seven different rankings, right, of how it can look. Yeah, one to seven. And it's actually really helpful, I think, for most people to have a look at and just be really, really aware of your bowel movements, because that's really important. It is, the Bristol stool chart that is. And interestingly, just a last bit on that is basically you're probably thinking, oh, well, why not apples and why not other fruits? You're absolutely right. All of those different fruits, veggies, et cetera, have soluble and insoluble fibre,

depending what you're eating, which is fab. But Kiwis also contain a specific enzyme. Rie, I'm sure I'm going to pronounce it wrong. So can you do the honours? I think you could have nailed that one. But no, it does contain an enzyme called Actinidon, which is unique to Kiwis. Exactly. And that helps stimulate digestion and improve bowel mobility.

So that's why Kiwis, obviously, we're not saying neglect the rest of your fruit and veggies and your plants and your legumes and your whole grades and all the good stuff. but kiwis particularly good. So if that's something you're struggling with or maybe like someone in your family is and I would say top tip as well, maybe I actually not obsessed with kiwis. What about the golden? My kids love the skin on it.

I just buy the golden kiwis now. But if you're not big on kiwis, you could always just blend them into a smoothie that will then be delicious and I'm sure everyone will enjoy them. Yeah. Oh my goodness. You're right.

Kiwis can fizz for some people. Not everybody likes kiwis. It does move us on to another. headline that is linked to our gut health actually, which is incredibly important. And it's big, everybody. This is one of the biggest headlines that I've been most excited to discuss probably this year. I mean, it's huge. Scientists are demanding cancer warnings on bacon and ham sold in the UK. Exactly. And I just want to say, hopefully our regular listeners know that when Rea and I discuss this, we obviously have personal opinions on every topic we talk about. But also, none of that is like judgment.

not here to make people feel really guilty or try and make you feel I must never eat a bite of bacon again in the rest of my life. But equally, I think it is this really interesting conundrum formed for a better word that we have in the health and wellness industry landscape. Kind of it's a structural issue as I see it, which is that ultimately, you know, people bang on about let's find balance, that's find balance, we bang on about it too. And balance is really important. It's not about being dogmatic and about saying you've got to. to be 100% X, Y or Z. But balance doesn't really count if the balance is what the current British diet is, which is, you know, 50 plus percent of calories coming from ultra-process food, 90-plus

percent of people being deficient in fibre, one in five people being able to get their five a day. That isn't balance. Balance really kind of, I think, you know, by definition, is eating a nourishing diet that is packed with whole food to which you pepper on, and layer at different times other things you really, really enjoy. Like it's Halloween, you have some sweet. You know, you are on holiday. You have loads of drinks and, you know, you love those margaritas. That's great. It's not about shaming anybody or making anybody feel guilty for it. But I do think that we have to probably slightly re-address what we believe is balanced because I think our collective diets are so far removed from balance. If you're not getting a five a day, it's not balanced. I would

say, if I'm being honest, really, you might disagree. No, I do agree of you. I do agree with you. And I just want to add in as well that we're aware of the privilege aspect here, that not everyone has the choices to become balanced at the moment the country is not supporting everybody. There's a kindness element. There's different sensory reasons why people eat different foods. We are aware that this is a very emotive and nuanced conversation and lots of people have different needs and requirements. But like Ella said, fundamentally, we are not a nation of healthy balanced eaters. Exactly. And so looking at this from that perspective, I think it's really interesting. And so there was big news over the last week or two with scientists calling for cigarette-style cancer warnings on bacon and ham sold in the UK. And these scientists who were part of the people who initially classified bacon and ham as class one carcinogens are essentially criticizing successive governments. So obviously therefore on both ends of the spectrum, both Labor and conservative, for doing virtually nothing at all to reduce the risk. since the World Health Organization confirmed, as I said, a decade ago that Processed Me is a Class 1 carcinogen and it can cause bowel cancer. And we know that we're seeing a very steep rise in bowel cancer, especially in this country.

In younger people, Ella. Exactly. And so, as I said, it's been 10 years now. This was essentially published and a kind of campaign launched on the 10th anniversary since the World Health Organization classified Process Me as this Class 1 carcinogen. And just to be clear, what that means is that it's in the same category as tobacco and asbestos. Alcohol. And alcohol. So, I mean, I don't think you'd go up to anybody and be like, do you know that smoking's really bad for you?

I don't think you should smoke a lot. It's not dissimilar to that. And I think I say I can see myself or feel myself hesitating as I say this because I know people will be like, shut up. But it is, I find that really interesting because we don't want to think it sits in that camp. So we're slightly ignoring it, which I think if I can read between the lines, is what people are slightly saying here. The classification came after very strong evidence showed that nitrites, the chemical used to cure and preserve bacon and ham,

conform cancer causing compounds in the body. So this is a really well-researched, really evidence-based, established link that the World Health Organization have now for a decade put in the same camp as tobacco. So I don't think they're unreasonable in saying, and a part of, you know, we'll go into it in a set, but a big part of the press around this was saying, the problem is no one's told the public. And I think it's true, you know, it's not,

everybody now knows that smoking's not very good for you. I think you'd be hard pressed to find an adult in this country who doesn't know that, whatever you then choose to do on it. I don't think most people would believe you if we went out onto the street now and said, you know, do you think ham sits in the same bracket as asbestos? Yeah, no, I don't think people are, aware at all. Interestingly, Ella and I were also looking at headlines. I don't know if we put

it in next week or not, but there was definitely one headline recently as well when this study came out, or rather this, what would you call it, action group came out to discuss this that said move over veganism or vegetarianism, meats here, like we need to be eating more meat. And we saw that at the same week that this came up. And in one of the other newspapers I mentioned it last week, literally next to it online was like, hey, great. I I can't remember if it was bacon or something. Yeah. For autumn, I just thought, gosh, this is so very confusing.

But before we go any further re, just help us a second because I think it's really important to kind of clarify this again. What are we talking about with nitrites? Yes. The compound that's the problematic element of it. Exactly. And it's definitely not the kind of nitrites you find a beach route. So don't get that confused.

This is a very different component. We've discussed that previously because that also made some headlines recently. And if anyone has the science of nutrition, but there's a diagram of this that I wrote for that book on this subject because it is confusing. So nitrates and nitrates are added to cured meats. They basically are there to prevent bacteria and preserve the pink colour. Because obviously you put meat on the shop shelf, it's going to spoil quite quickly. And that is why Hammers pink. It's not naturally meant to be that colour.

But once inside the guts, once you've digested these components, they can form something called N nitrazzo compounds. And these are also known as NOCs, which is what I'm going to refer to them as. It's a bit easier. But these are what we describe in science as genotoxic. And this means that our DNA can be actively damaged by consuming these. And the cell lining in our bowels, which is where the link comes from with bowel cancer, particularly as well, can also be equally damaged. And when these meats are cooked as well, which they classically are all around the world on barbecues, for instance, in barbears.

barbecue season. It's a huge component of cultures, actually. When these meats are cooked at high temperatures like frying or grilling them, which I would actually argue nearly, how else does anyone cook bacon? Yeah, ham less so, but you're right with bacon. Grill and frying. It adds another layer of risk because it produces these heterosilic amines, HCA's and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which are PAHs. These are both components that are linked in multiple research to cancer development, everybody. So it's about the amount you consume, but really, just like alcohol, it's just not good for us. And we cannot say there's any benefit because there are other animal items produce out there that do offer the same amount of protein or iron retrospectively to your

red and processed meat. So to put it into perspective for you before I waffle on, the World Health Organization estimates that eating just 50 grams of processed meat today, which is around like one to two rashes of bacon, depending on the size, increases your bowel cancer risk by 18%. And then recent UK testing found that supermarket ham still contains up to 30 milligrams of these nitrates per kiloella. It's very overwhelming because the data is just so stark. And I also find it very, very disappointing by our governments that people are blindly consuming them. Well, and they're one of the biggest items on food menus up and down the country.

In schools, sorry, in school menus, we've seen that before. Three of the five most popular meets in terms of what served to children in British schools sit in this camp. And as I said, it's not about criticising anyone, but I think it is important to know that in terms of how you find genuine balance with all of this. And essentially, four of the scientists who helped establish this original link back 10 years ago have written now to the Health Secretary that's, where streeting in the UK, urging him to act, they want mandatory cigarette-style warnings on the estimated 90 to 95% of bacon and hand packets that still contain nitrites. You can buy nitrite-free. We're back to the same, unfortunately, conversation of it being infinitely less available

and infinitely more expensive. And you still have the problem of the frying and the grilling and things like that. So it doesn't, but it is better. It is undoubtedly better. I feel, I don't know if you feel the same, but I feel like I have butterflies in my tummy, because I feel really on edge even when we're discussing this because for me this is just totally unheard of as a registered nutritionist that we're discussing something that's so blatantly obvious yet it's not actioned on a public health level so it's talking about something before

things come in. It's like actually put so much into schools. I mean, I think it's things like that where you just think, gosh, you know, people say, well, don't have a nanny state and I understand that, you know, it's everyone has very well and everyone should have choice, but it should be a choice in which the information is really available and where you're not giving it actively to young children. Like, that's just really odd from a government perspective, but... The glorification of these items of foods in childhood systems.

And up and down the country, I'm sure we've all been there or experienced it, because previous generations, it was a big part of the diet. So I think there's two really interesting bits here. First thought on that is exactly what's echoed by one of the professors who's launching this professor Dennis Corpett. He said consumers deserve clear information. Most people don't realize that the WHO, the World Health Organization, classified nitrite cured meats like bacon and ham, in the same carcinogenic category as tobacco and asbestos, which I think is such a relevant point.

Again, it's not about pointing fingers and blame, but it is because we don't have this education, and they want this stuff phased out, you know, as well as these warnings. Because what they're saying is that the claim from them is that government in action, since 2015, since this was such an established link, has already led to about 54,000 bowel cancer cases in the UK and cost the NHS around £3 billion. And this has been echoed by the World Cancer Research Fund, echoing the same concerns.

They stated that there is, quote, no doubt the process meets people at greater risk. So it's quite, I know it's not positive news, guys, but I think it is really important to cover. It's also, I think lots of people know somebody affected by cancer in some shape or form. Boul cancer just is so alarming how the rates are discarding higher and higher every single year. And I was writing about this for the next book.

And I remember Deborah, of course, Dame Debra, James Bow Babe Fund did so much before her end of life. She was remarkable at campaigning for this. But I really hope that now these are making the headlines and we're discussing it on the podcast. We can just do something to help everybody because nitrides are not beneficial. in any shape or form for our bodies and we need more fibre and whole grains and lovely foods. We do.

So I think as an action, it is, it's just limiting it. We're not saying never have it ever again, but it is limiting it. Or go for the meat alternatives, Ella. I know that they're UPFs, but they don't contain nitrides. But they're not group one carcinogens.

No. And they're lower and saturated fat. And I do think if your children want to try something or as an option, if you can make the switch to those every now and again, that's reducing their risk of cancer. answer. So there's no bad thing. No. And shout out to fibre again. That is balance. We need more fibre because that is what really supports our gut. So we're not just saying, I feel a bit awkward because we're not just saying it because I'm writing a book on fiber. We've been talking about

fiber before. Oh my gosh. We all desperately need fiber. The beginning of the podcast's intensity. Totally regardless of Facebook. Yeah, totally regardless everybody, just so you know. Yeah. That's the best way you can help your gut is get those 30 grams a day guys. This episode of The Wellness Scoop is sponsored by Stripe and Stair. I have been wearing their pants and their PJs since the start of the year and it is honestly the only brand in my draw now. Me too and I don't think you really think about underwear until you try these and then you realise how good it can actually feel

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I wonder what anyone at home thinks. I wish we could do it. Put up your hand. I know, because I would have originally said, you just got to get it in wherever you can get it in. But I'm quite happy that this is the conclusion. Yeah, although I guess this is like, don't make perfect the enemy of good.

Many short ones are still better than no ones. But this headline was everywhere, actually. That headline in particular, The Witches Better came from the New York Times. But it comes from a new study. published in the annals of internal medicine and that suggests that going on longer walks

instead of like lots of little walks has greater health benefits than taking the exact same number of steps spread across lots of short strolls which is really good actually to know if you do enjoy that one daily long walk but not so great for people like me on some days when you are sporadically

working and you only get those short bursts in like the walk to the train station or to the office but hundreds of studies have shown that higher daily step counts, lower the risk of dementia, type 2 diabetes and heart disease. And this is one of the first to ask how we should get those steps. So we know it's not about 10,000 because even though there's a higher step count, that was a made up number. Yeah, by a Japanese company to market a podometer before the Japanese Olympics. So 10,000 steps is one of the best examples of marketing

from the last 100 years or so. But it's not a real thing, but many steps is a real thing. But 10,000 the mythical number is a completely invented phenomenon by a brilliant Japanese marketeer. But this analysis in particular, the one on Long v. Short walks, was looking at 34,000 adults between 40 and 79 in the UK, all of whom walked fewer than 8,000 steps a day, most were just under 5,000. And participants were sorted by walking patterns and tracked for about a decade. So really looking at these people over a really meaningful amount of time. those who regularly walked for 15 minutes or more without stopping were 80% less likely to die from any cause

and nearly 70% less likely to develop cardiovascular disease than people whose walks lasted five minutes or less. I mean, what a win. Okay, I know we just did quite a tricky headline, but this is a win. Because actually, we're not talking about crazy long walks here. We're talking about like 15, 20 minute walks, getting, I mean, that is mega, mega benefits, guys.

so extraordinary because even if you break it down, if someone's total step count was low, like mine is on the majority of days sometimes when I'm working from home, longer continuous walks still offered those significant protections like across the course of a week. So roughly 1,500 uninterrupted steps. That is your 15 minutes of steady movement. That's all you need. Just try and get to 15, 20 minutes. I think that's a really good target for us all.

It's get off a stop early if you can. You've got to find the time in the day where you can devote the time to doing that. Is it after work? Is it before work? Is it just at the weekends? You can do it twice at the weekend. Is it when you want to listen to the wellness scoop? Yes, you want to listen to the wellness scoop. And this lead researcher, we should give him a little shout out here, Dr. Borgia del Pozo, Pozo, Cruz. He's from the European University of Madrid, so our Spanish listeners might think our pronunciation is poor. I would not have done any better than you. I didn't do Spanish at school. I did French. I'm really sorry, although my son's learning Spanish

now, but he said, I quote, we're not saying shortabouts doesn't work, but it just seems like it's much better to accumulate steps in longer periods. So it makes sense. And you can also accumulate steps by taking the escalator and walking up it rather than standing on it. There's ways of doing it. And I think just an important note on that as well, because I think certainly when I first read this, this was my first thought and I'm sure that some of your guys as well, oh, but surely there's just like those people are fitter so they walk more. But actually, not true. The team controlled the study by age, weight, smoking, cholesterol intake. So it's not just saying fitter people walk longer. This is actually the walking pattern itself that matters here,

which I think is really encouraging. I love it. And it's to do of our heart rate. So when we improve our circulation, when we take more exercise, we build more capillaries, we have more blood vessels, we become healthier. And helping those blood vessels stay flexible. So over time, it helps regulate our blood pressure. So that in turn is helping our heart health. And then it improves our insulin sensitivity, which of course, as well, is linked to lower inflammation and a better steady mood throughout the day as well. And of course, on top of that, reducing your inflammation, which we know we don't want a boosted immune system. We want a happy one. And overall, Ella, it's like a win-win. Yeah, sports, metabolic, vascular health. I mean,

it's just such a win. And as I'm always, like, deeply enthusiastic for the wins that feel reasonable. This is reasonable. You know, as we said at the beginning of the first headline, that we collectively have such a problem with our health in this country. We don't exercise enough. We don't eat well enough. We don't sleep enough. Our stress is out of control. And it's really difficult to turn it around.

And I don't want to like overly simplify that. And that's why I love something like this where it's really robust evidence that's saying, guys, go for a 20 minute walk, just keep walking for 20 minutes and you're 80% less likely to die from any cause. I mean, that's really, that's a nice news for a Monday morning. Is it the hot girl walk again? Oh, the hot girl walk returns. That might be our headline. The hot girl walk returns.

Yeah, it's back. We're back. The hot person walk. Yeah, hot anybody walk. Let's just get walking everyone. It's evidence-based and we love that. Yeah, exactly. The hot walk.

Okay. Number three, we're just going to end on high with our headlines today. Another really nice one. You found it, Ella. It's a really gorgeous one. Yeah, well, you know what? I thought it's Christmas is coming so I think the mood goes up, but like it's pretty dark and all the rest of it. We're going into winter, so let's have some good vibes.

Okay, our third headline, couples who make happy memories together live longer. It's gorgeous. It was in the telegraph, everybody, and they found that older partners who regularly shared joyful moments together had lower levels of cortisol, the hormone-linked distress, and a lower risk of age-related illness. So the research was led by Tomiko Janada at the University of California, Davis, and analyzed data from three studies. It was a sample size, I mean, I'd look forward to more, 321 couples in Canada and Germany. So you've got two different countries there that pooling it from as well. And they were aged between 56 and 89.

And they completed surveys about their positive emotions, even provided saliva samples, quite in depth. And they had a significantly lower stress hormone cortisol, even after accounting for factors such as medication or the time of day. But I think, you know, this could apply to friendships. They were very clear in that this is about, but it's about long-lasting relationships, so long-standing friends, I guess, people who you feel probably really close with. And I think that's also something so nice about this is that the reason that they were looking at their saliva was to get a really accurate read of cortisol. But what they found in that was that it was when they experienced happiness together rather than individually, not that individually is not really positive, but it was experiencing it together, the significantly lower cortisol. it's that shared experience with someone that means a lot to you. And I just love that.

So when couples felt good together, their cortisol level stayed lower later in the day, suggesting that co-experiencing positive emotions helps the body stay calmer over time. And interestingly, the findings didn't differ by age, sex, even relationship satisfaction, which I think is very interesting. So this isn't all about like perfect couples, perfect relationships.

It's about, I guess, great moments as opposed to anything else. but the benefits kind of held true across like all sorts of different couples. Do you know what's funny or rather not funny? Maybe it's practical. I was with some of my girlfriends. I went out for dinner, rare occasion here in my life at the moment. Love it. And we actually discussed maybe, I mean we don't know where we're going to be in our lives,

but maybe we should look at care homes or places to retire in. I'm trying to say it seriously because hopefully I'm very far off that point in my life. But maybe we should do a recie of them all and decide that if we're all a bit closer together, we'll have better. So we were talking about social interaction and then we can have a lovely ripe old quality of life. I love it. Extend that health span as much as you can.

It's not normal, is it? But, you know, with headlines like this. I know they just feel so good, don't there? And I think it's this reminder as well that, like, I know we've banged on a lot about diet today and Piber and all the rest of it. But I think it is, again, that just like constant reminder that we all desperately need, that your emotional connections also massively shape your health, including your physical health.

And, you know, we often talk about stress, you know, it feels like a mental thing, but it's actually deeply physiological. And chronic stress raises inflammation, blood pressure, aging markers. And these positive experience together seem to do the opposite, lowering cortisol, which soothes the nervous system,

protects against long-term heart health and things. And so it's just a nice reminder again on that, like, connection, connectivity, not feeling lonely, just enjoying life is key to health. And it is that, here's the word, again. But it is about finding balance between looking after yourself and really enjoying life. And those are the generations in this study that are before the current phone addiction generations that I think we're on the cusp of as millennials, Millennials, Gen Z. I really feel

that our big challenge, when we get to that bracket of time, is going to be not being isolated and not just scrolling and making an effort to have those social interactions. We really have to remind ourselves, it's so easy to get trapped into being isolated because your phone wants you to be hooked on it all the time. Do you know what? My phone is on such a good one though at the moment. I mean, don't get me wrong. I still have my days where I really struggle with it because I've been getting really into my gardening. Yes. My algorithm has shifted so much and away from like great white sharks attacking people and like illness and disease and like all the things that terrify me alive into like here's how to prune lavender yeah oh it's so much better

that you could plant now in time for Christmas and it's so joyful and it's such a reminder that like you know trying to curate because Instagram in the could old days you didn't have all the suggested stuff it was you followed things that you liked and therefore you kind of yes you're spending too much time online but at least there's a kind of sense of like learning and connectivity and community because it's oh I'm really interested in this here's someone else that is and I can learn a bit about how to prune lavender or how to grow some really nice pots in my house for Christmas. You've found your hobby.

Oh, yeah, and you found your hobby. Yeah, I feel like God, maybe my hobby. We were talking about it at the beginning of the podcast, how hobbies, because I'm singing all the time now at home, I've got Christmas gigs and it's making me, it's distracting me from tech. I'm doing something else. You have discovered gardening. This is it.

That's my new life. I love it. I love it. I'm really enjoying it. I don't think I'm any good yet, but I'm really enjoying it. The test will be, if any of my daffodils come, guys. I'm waiting for the daffodils in March. They might come out at end of Feb.

Mine came out of Feb this year. I mean, I have planted so many that if none come through, then I really am like the world's worst gardener. So everyone keep their fingers crossed. At least I get like, let's go for three. Let's go for lucky number three. If I get three daffodils, I'll continue. I have a feeling you're going to get 300.

So, yeah, let's stay positive. We've got a very. very different trend though to discuss with you which I can't picture Ella infrared palates is it like being on a bright red reformer it's I think it's in the walls so it's around the room like a Himalayan salt room and a spa that people do exactly and I've seen a lot because my Instagram feed isn't solely gardening I do see people go and sit in front of an infrared light in the morning to do meditations and things like that so imagine a kind of almost it's like a you know like a electric heater kind of thing. because tall is your knee or I don't know. I would love that because I am a cold person naturally like as in I find it once I'm cold I'm cold to the bone that type of thing I've really cold I've bad circulation what's it called Reynolds I got diagnosed of Reynolds when I was younger and that's what I need infrared room so it's a big trend a you're sitting in front of an infrared light but be then

exercising in an infrared environment and particularly Pilates because Yeah. So it's a heated environment. It uses these infrared panels essentially. And the idea being it then like warms the body up directly. And people feel like it creates kind of a deeper muscle warm up, which creates improved flexibility and mobility, enhanced circulation, quicker recovery, bigger calorie burn. I think that's the big reason this is taking off in fitness. And even some skin glow. That makes sense because we have the infrared masks. You know, I did mine last night. And I've been. off, I've not been looking after myself recently and now I'm kind of back on the yes before Christmas I'm quite motivated and it must be because of the technology but I wonder how far away you have

to be from the wall in order to have any sort of tissue repair and also the quality and how many lights and because we do have studies not on Pilates Ella but on saunas don't we? Exactly so I think infrared is essentially becoming incredibly popular be it an infrared

sauna infrared Pilates sitting as I said in front of these infrared lights. And so what we found when we were looking at this trend and lots who are asking, because the classes are expensive as well. Buying the lights, obviously. It's very expensive. It's like £25 to £30 a class. Exactly.

So the question is like, is it worth it essentially? And unsurprisingly, there's not huge scientific data and research and papers being written about like specific Pilates classes. But obviously A, we know Pilates is so good for you. Lots and lots of evidence on that. Brilliant

for strength, mobility. and so that's a massive tick. And there is a fair bit of research because particularly of infrared sauners in terms of infrared health benefits and generally speaking, it's pretty positive but early stage much more. We need. So is it like

hot yoga? I'm asking you, obviously, is the yoga my yoga goer anyway? I've been to one in my life and I just remember slipping on the floor and be like, I can't do this, I can't do hot yoga. I don't think it's quite as hot. So you don't sweat in the same way. But I haven't been to a hot, I haven't done

infrared Pilates. So our listeners who have, let us know, I really want to go and try it now. There's none near me. I mean, I don't know where. We'll have to do a class after we finish recording. They do it at Cycle, just up for Rovroval here. I see, because I see it on the delicious Ciella Slack channel that people are going to go. Oh, let's do that. Okay, well, we'll head down to Cycle after.

And we'll let you know how it goes. Okay. But there's some good evidence on infrared saunas. So again, with that infrared light, having some cardiovascular benefits, improved blood flow, reduced blood pressure, some improved recovery. There was another study that found that post-exercise,

infrared saunas, can reduce subjective muscle saunas. There's some studies on hot yoga. That's different because it's heated rooms. And as I said, they're generally quite a lot hotter versus the infrared panels. But that has some modest benefits and flexibility versus non-heated conditions. So look, I think generally speaking...

Trend is hot, not cold now. Yeah. And I don't think this is a bad trend. Pilates is so good for you. There is not huge, but some data that infrared light can be positive, but I think just watch out, I would say, for things like claims around detoxification, like an infrared glow, kind of major calorie burn, boost type things. Yeah. Because that's marketing from various different studios as opposed to kind of like peer reviewed studies, backing that up essentially. And it's on your start.

I think we've got to remember everyone starts at a different place with X. exercise and they're going to see different benefits because of their starting position, how far along their Pilates journey they are, their body type, how much body fat they have. There's just so many variables with it. But ultimately, like you said, it's a no harm zone. As long as there's a teacher there that's checking your posture, my big thing is, if any yoga class or Pilates class, if I'm doing something wrong and no one's corrected my form, you can really spark a kind of niggle or an injury. For sure. So yeah, I think it's generally like I'd put it between neutral and positive. My only comment and I don't want to be a negative Nancy and I don't want to end. Please don't think I'm negative Nancy as we end the episode. You're never negative Nancy. It's me that gets the stick for that. But the only thing I say is that we just did a headline on how a 20 minute walk can meaningfully boost your health. And a 20 minute walk is free. We could probably all do it. pretty much every day. It might not be simple to do. I get it. Everyone's busy,

but it's probably possible for us all to do a 20-minute walk pretty much every day. Yeah, as I said, it's very, it's relatively easy. It's very doable. And, you know, you can listen to some music you love

or a podcast or an audio book. Take a work call on the go. Call your mum, you know, call a friend, get that connectivity going. It's pretty kind of a low barrier to entry. And I think my only concern with stuff like infrared

Pilates is not that there's anything wrong with doing it. As I said, inherently it's positive. You're doing a well-researched exercise that's very good for you, generally speaking. And then, you know, there's early and vaguely limited, but positive data on infrared. But I just think it sits for me in the camp of like TikTok social media-esque world where people then associate health and wellness with these wildly expensive practices. That's out of budget for so many. And out of like the scope as well in terms of time, commitment, obviously budget as well.

But the whole shebang when you put it together. And I just don't want anyone to think I can't be into health and wellness because I don't have the resources, time, whatever. I don't even live this within three hours of somewhere where I can even take one of these classes. So I just think there's like, that's my only caution with it is I just worry about, any trend that makes people feel they can't partake in the world of health and wellness because they can't do this one very social algorithm. It's a wonderful contribution.

You're right. No, no. I think everything you just said is so important. So when I just were, I spent a disproportionate amount of mind of time worrying about this because I, wellness isn't that. Ella, we've seen so many fitness trends. Just look back to the start when it was really yoga heavy. then it was hot yoga, then it was F-45, then it was hit, then...

The vibrating place, what was that? Oh, power page. I worked at a palpades. I worked at a pubice. It was spinning. It was Barry's boot camp. It was hit workouts. It was the glow in the dark, reform of Pilates.

I mean, how dangerous is that? We've cycled through everything. But obviously in the world today, you don't just then read it when you're reading a magazine at the hairdress. You see it all the time. And I just want to close the episode reminding you that the evidence sits on a 20-minute walk. And eat. Nice food.

dancing in your kitchen and getting your fibre, much more than it sits with infrared Pilates. That doesn't mean infrared Pilates is a bad idea. If you enjoy it, go for it. But don't feel that you can't do health and wellness because you don't do that. I love our podcast. Me too. I just feel like we have a chance to actually say the real deal. Everybody, thank you.

I feel uplifted, even though I thought the headlines were a bit big and heavy this week. They're actually really nice, minus the bacon one. So eat some Kiwis, limit your ham and bacon, make sure you get a daily walk, have nice experiences with people that matter a lot to you and have been in your life a long while, and don't stress over infrared Pilates. Couldn't have summarised it better myself. Thank you so much for tuning in, everyone. We'll see you next week.

Have a great day. Bye.