The Wellness Scoop - Finding Gratitude in the Hardest Moments

Episode Date: May 5, 2020

What happens when life as you know it disappears in an instant, when the world is swept from under you and every part of your day to day shifts. We’re talking to our friend Lauren who experienced extreme isolation eight years ago about finding blessings, appreciating connections, not losing sight of the future or gratitude in adversity, as well as the importance of looking to the future even when the future is so hard to predict, the lessons we can take from disconnection and distance and the importance of perspective at all times. A how to in living by the moto ‘live life as though everything is rigged in your favour’   Lauren’s Vogue article: https://www.vogue.co.uk/arts-and-lifestyle/article/cancer-diagnosis-self-isolation   You’ll find the By Sarah products on www.deliciouslyella.com in the next couple of weeks See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Deliciously Ella podcast with me, Ella Mills. So at the moment, I think looking at those who've overcome adversity and challenge with a kind of amazing sense of optimism and grace and courage can do so much for us all for boosting that day-to-day inspiration that I think we're probably all looking for at the moment. So today I wanted to share a really unbelievable story with you. Our guest today, Lauren, faced nine months of pretty extreme isolation when she was just 23 years old, after very suddenly being diagnosed with a rare form of cancer. So she really knows more about the coping strategies than anyone for dealing with these strange times

and this sense of isolation and missing the physical presence of others. But through her unbelievable story and everything she's learned, she's then channeled all of that into then starting this unbelievable business with her sister that they make products that both Matt and I swear by. So it's a really, yeah, incredible story of kind of adversity turned into amazing courage and resilience and an incredible view for the future. So welcome, Lauren. Thank you so, so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me, Ella. It's an absolute delight to be here. Love your podcast. We love Deliciously Ella. So it's a real thrill. Thank you for having me. Yeah, of course. So will you just start by kind of telling us just a little bit more about your story and where this all started for you. Yeah, sure. I think it might

be helpful as well to say why I'm sharing it now. And the story I'm about to share is a story I've kept pretty private for a very long time. But given these really challenging times at the moment of self-isolation, social distancing, it really felt the right time to share my story and in a way set it free and be almost liberated by it with the hope that it really does help many others at this time because our freedom has been severely restricted. You can feel very, very powerless and I hope that in sharing my, there might be a few nuggets in there that might help at this really challenging time. So with that, I'll take us back to February 2012. So over eight years ago now, and at that time, I experienced really severe neck pain and just

really strange symptoms. I was very lethargic. I had a fever. I was in bed for about a week and that was just completely out of character. I was a very fit, healthy, young 22 year old. And it just felt very out of character, very strange. And unfortunately my symptoms became worse. So we had to phone for an ambulance and I was taken to A&E hospital. They ran a few tests but couldn't diagnose on the spot. But I was called back the next day. And it was then that I was hospitalized overnight and told that I had cancer, acute myeloid leukemia, which sounds a mouthful. And it was a lot to process in that moment. But what it meant was my life as I knew it had stopped. And overnight, I had to be hospitalized and be

taken straight down to start treatment. So over the next few weeks and months, it meant that I was kept in my hospital room for six weeks at a time for each round of chemotherapy. The first three rounds actually didn't work. And it was then at that point that we had to turn to my sister, Sarah, and see if she would be a match for a stem cell transplant. That was the last hope that we had. And thankfully, an absolute miracle, she was a complete 10 out of 10 match, which is very rare that you have the odds in your favor. So that was a true blessing. And then over the months of treatment, I was able to then be discharged and recover at home. But the recovery at home was another ordeal of dealing with essentially the collateral damage.

The cancer had been cured, but then the body then needs to recover. So all in all, it took about two years of being either in hospital or recovering at home until a degree of normality returned to my life. And I was able to pick up almost where I left off, which was returning to law school, starting my career in law until just over two and a half years ago. Now, my sister and I started our business together, which is by Sarah London. And has it felt, you know, I know you said, it's such a deeply personal story and obviously incredibly complex in terms of I'm sure the emotional kind of legacy that it's left for you. I read a beautiful article that you wrote on Vogue online I'll put it in the show notes if anyone wants to read it which yeah it was a really unbelievable read but has it felt

cathartic to talk about it? It absolutely has and I mean this has taken years to get to a place where I'm able, comfortable to, I'm willing to share it. You know, a few years ago, I wouldn't have been in this position. It's taken a really, really long time to fully recover physically, mentally, emotionally, and build that stamina and that resilience. but I just felt really quite strongly that I feel as you say it is a cathartic experience now to share something that I went through and I don't have to be trapped by that trauma and I can almost you know set it free and hopefully my story can help others. And is there something for you I guess yeah in making it obviously it was such a kind of especially because you had such long periods of obviously it was such a kind of, especially because you had such long periods of isolation, it was such a kind of deeply

individual experience, but have you found there's something in sharing your experience that you connect, I guess, deeper with others? Absolutely. I think having that time where I was so cut off from the world and very much in extreme isolation, coming through that experience and then being reintroduced to society again, if you like, it's been absolutely amazing. And I really appreciate the connections that I have with my sister, with my parents, with my friends, with my family, and other people that I meet, because had I not had this time to be apart, be by myself, it's really hard to then appreciate what it's like

had it not been taken away from me. So I absolutely fully appreciate and value the connections that I have more than I ever did. And that is a blessing. You know, we take our relationships for granted, I think. But if you can really value them and find the time to really deeply appreciate them, you do feel much richer for it. immediate family if they were sitting at the end of the bed and had full kind of protective clothing and masks and everything on in order to protect you and that then the only physical contact you had was from kind of either a nurse or a doctor needing to take blood work or something.

Yeah that's absolutely right the nature of the the blood cancer was it's very aggressive and it means that in treatment the immune system has to be suppressed, which meant that I essentially had zero immunity to everyday bugs and viruses and bacteria. And had I contracted something, it could mean me ending up in intensive care. So I had to be kept by myself and I couldn't have regular visits. It was just my immediate family who then had to be kept by myself and I couldn't have regular visits. It was just my immediate family who then had to wear plastic gowns and gloves and masks. They couldn't touch me. They had to stay at the end of the bed, as you say. And the only contact I did have was with nurses and doctors. And every few hours they had to take my observations of temperature, blood pressure, giving me the chemo treatment.

And it was every few hours for weeks and months. So it was a very extreme form of isolation and an extreme form of disconnection, I think, as well. But I was absolutely blessed to have my family with me. And they were able to see me every single day so while we were physically distant they were very much present in my everyday life to to keep me positive and to keep me connected. How did you find that that sudden loss of physical connection because I know like looking at the way that people are talking about they're kind of staying at home at the moment during this kind of coronavirus time that people you know again you as you said I think really beautifully earlier we we very often

take for granted those kind of really sort of seemingly normal interactions you know whether that's like a kind of a big hug with someone or you know literally even just like shaking the hand of a colleague or someone you're meeting you know we kind of really take for granted those like tiny little moments of kind of, yeah, physical interaction and touch with other human beings. How did you find, I guess, for you, like a very, very sudden loss of that and then and then they were kind of reintroduction of it afterwards? I mean, it was it was absolutely devastating the speed at which this happened. As I say, it was overnight. So I had no time to prepare mentally, physically for what was about to happen. And so I very, very quickly had to adapt. And for me, that meant being as proactive as I could be and really taking control

in an environment where I really felt quite powerless. So very early on, I had to have surgery for something called a Hickman line, which is where they insert plastic tubing under your chest. So they can insert the chemo drugs directly into that tubing. So they're not having to use a vein in your arm because your arm will just be shot to pieces after a few days. So I should also say as well, before this even happened, I was phobic of needles. I would pass out at regular blood tests. So this was absolutely horrific to me, but I had no choice. This had to happen.

So within a few days, I now have this tubing hanging out of my chest. And at the time I had really long blonde hair and it was just going to become impossible to, you know, wash my hair properly because I had to cover the Hickman line in the shower. And of course I knew that I would lose my hair. So something I did with Sarah was cut my hair and we donated it to the Little Princess Trust, which make wigs for children that have cancer. So Iifting my hair or even much smaller things like in my room, I put up posters on my wall. And two, that really stood out for me and actually became much more than just something beautiful to look at, but I was very intentional about how I essentially curated my hospital room and tried to make it as positive, as bright and inspiring a place as I could because I had to be there for so long. And the first poster was of an abstract print of New York. I love the city. I'd only been once, but I really, really love the energy of the city. And the second was a poster of two palm trees with a hammock between them on a beach in the

Caribbean. And they were on my wall and would shine and radiate positive energy at me every single day. And I really felt that they were my beacons of hope and that they were a reality that while I couldn't manifest them right now, I truly believed that I was going to, in some way, experience that. I couldn't articulate it any more than that. But I was just very certain that those two posters had a deeper meaning for me, even though I couldn't quite articulate it at that time. But even at this time now, while we're self-isolating at home, I think many people, many of my friends as well have said, they've really taken the time to freshen up their home space and really be aware of what's

around them because it does impact you on some level I do believe so putting really beautiful pictures or beautiful quotes or inspiring mantras around you is really powerful yeah it's funny I couldn't agree more at this point I feel like I'm becoming like an obsessive kind of cleaning all the time. I'm like tidying all the time and like lighting candles and like burning incense. And so, um, yeah, it makes it, it makes a big difference. Um, especially when you can feel, yeah, a little bit stuck and it's unbelievable. I mean, it's really, it's really unbelievable listening to you and your kind of sense of spirit that you had as you said like suddenly everything shifts and and you feel understandably incredibly incredibly powerless and everything's kind of outside of your control

really in some ways and I wanted just to talk a little bit more about that mindset because I mean I'm sure you know lots of people won't have been through such a difficult experience but they might be finding you know different experiences challenging and I guess it's one of those things that when kind of things don't look like they're playing in your favor and I know if I'm right in saying when I read your your piece that you said an issue were giving given just a 20 survival rate which is obviously you know I can only imagine how deeply challenging that must have been to kind of process and yet you were so proactive and you put these posters up and created this sense of kind of visualization of the future I know you said you bought like a was it a

cross trainer for your room and like had a yoga mat in there and I mean how how did you first of all I guess did you continuously have the positive mindset or did you have moments where you struggled to find it and then second of all were there were there things that helped you kind of cultivate that sense of like continuously trying to work on the positive and on moving towards the future, even if that felt uncertain? Absolutely. I mean, it was incredibly difficult and absolutely devastating. And as I mentioned, my freedom, my independence had been stripped away. My identity as I knew it had gone. I no longer had this long blonde hair. I was no longer able to go running every day. I was no longer able to go to law school. I was no longer able to see my friends.

All of the things that I used to love, I couldn't do anymore. But the one thing I did have was my mind. And that was the only thing I could control while everything else around me was moving beyond my control. And so I did as much as I could to build my mental resilience, to build those positive affirmations. And something that I started almost immediately was a daily diary. And I would record at length what was happening, the procedures I was having, how I was feeling. I would record the weather because I couldn't go outside anymore as that way to just feel connected. And actually, that was quite a positive thing to do because it allowed me to process what was happening. And it allowed me actually a private space. As I said, there was so much noise and busyness in the day with

doctors and nurses and tests that actually a private space in my diary for me just to share what I was going through was really powerful for me. But of course, it wasn't easy. And in the early weeks, I had that strength. I had that energy to keep the routine going as much as I could. In the later months, my health really did deteriorate very considerably to the extent where I really couldn't get out of bed very much at all. I really couldn't exercise very much. And I have to have morphine injections every day to deal with the pain. But once that eased slightly to help me feel, to give me that sense of purpose, I started fundraising for the ward where I was treated in London. And I had a very modest target to start with of £1,000. And over the weeks and months, the kindness, the generosity that was shared with me with the ward

was absolutely overwhelming. And to date, we've raised about £60,000. As we raised so much money, we were able to create what we called Lauren's Fund. With that money, we were able to fund a PhD student for three years at the UCL Cancer Institute. And her work contributed to the body of research on engineered T-cells, which is a type of white blood cell, which they're hoping will cure the type of cancer that I had, AML. And so while there were many things I couldn't do, connecting with that kind of project and connecting with people through the fundraising was the most amazing experience. And I'm just so proud and so grateful for everyone that took part in that fundraising. That is absolutely unbelievable. I mean, it's just such, yeah, it's just such incredible testament to you to take something which is quite a negative, to say the least,

and turn it into positive in so many different ways. because I think that takes a sense of strength that you really have to kind of dig extraordinarily deep to find coming on from that. How did it, you, you, again, you wrote really beautifully about what it was like to, you know, as you said, you, we, we kind of go through day to day life and we don't always appreciate those little things because we, you know, it's easy to take for granted, you know, it's a gorgeous day outside today. And I think we're all appreciating that more at the moment because we're maybe not as busy rushing to get on the tube or the bus or the train or whatever it is and we're not kind of doing 72 different things at once we are being a bit more still because we can't go to so many places

but it feels like yeah it's helping us or kind of pushing us towards appreciating things more and you you wrote so beautifully about what it was like because you couldn't even open the windows in your room and then suddenly once you got home and you were kind of well enough again you could go outside and how did it feel when you kind of first were able to stand in the outside world again it was absolutely amazing I was as I as we've been saying, locked away for so long and I couldn't hear the birds.'ll go for a walk around the block later. And I will really appreciate that because when you don't have it for so long, you really do look for and enjoy the simple pleasures of the sun on your skin, the wind through your hair, because I don't know what it is, but you just feel deeply connected to the world, to nature when you have that feeling. And coming home, it was very difficult because

even though I wasn't in hospital anymore, there was still another hurdle to get through and to build up the stamina to even take a walk in the park took a really long time. I'd be exhausted just trying to walk to the nearest bench. It took a long time for the body and the muscles to come back. But when I did and I was able to get outside and really experience nature, it's beautiful, absolutely stunning. Have you found patience is something? I mean, it sounds, yeah, I mean, you must have had to really kind of build up your inner ability for patience. Absolutely. I think I've definitely developed that muscle over time.

I think I'm more patient now. And sometimes, you know, if I'll get a bit frustrated with something or it's not quite going how I would like it to, I'll really try and catch myself and really remind myself that it's an absolute miracle. I'm even here today with the odds that you said at the beginning, which is only 20% of those that have AML survive. It really is a blessing. So I really try and remind myself of the hardship I've endured and just try and remind myself of of the hardship I've endured and and just try and bring a bit of lightness to the day because many of the many times some some of the things we think about are not as challenging as they could be so I try and remind myself just to keep it in perspective yeah absolutely I think that's something we could probably all do so much more of and so I want to kind of talk um a little

bit more if it's okay about then how you and your sister began what you guys do now and it's it's a pretty unbelievable story I remember when I first met Sarah must have been a couple of years ago now and she she told me the whole story I was yeah completely blown away by it as I'm sure most people are and um I think as you said you had a few different rounds of chemotherapy that unfortunately didn't work and you then had a full body radiation and then to replace your stem cells with those from Sarah will you tell us a little bit more about the process and what happened and and why you guys then started what you do? Yeah, sure. So yes, the first three rounds of chemo didn't work. And so it was a miracle that Sarah was a 10 out of 10 match for becoming my stem

cell donor. And before I had the transplant, I had to have total body irradiation, which sounds really dramatic. And it actually is. The process involves lying on essentially a table, and you're wedged into place with big blocks, and they want to essentially try and create as even a body as possible, a rectangular shape, and then to protect those certain vital organs in the body from the radiation. And there's this huge piece of equipment that sounds like 10 washing machines tumbling when the radiation hits your body. And you have to lay there for about 20 minutes on each side of the body. And to have that treatment, I had to be taken from my room in a wheelchair. And that experience in the early days was quite challenging because in my mind,

I'm still a healthy fit person, but moving around the hospital, they have to take you in a wheelchair. But I do remember quite early on, we would just try and make light of it. And I think I had to wear a face mask and I was really covered up to protect me. And I remember one of the nurses saying I looked like an astronaut and we just absolutely completely cracked into fits of giggles. And it was just trying to find those moments of just fun and lightness when it was really, really difficult and really quite dark moments. But yes, having that treatment was the step before the transplant where Sarah had her stem cells harvested through a procedure,

which lasted, I think, about six hours. And then her stem cells were filtered and then passed on to me pretty much the same day. And that day was the 9th of August 2012, which we call my second birthday because essentially it was the day my stem cells were reborn. I was given a second chance. So that day we definitely celebrate every year. And then having that transplant, the body then has to adjust to essentially these new foreign cells in the body. And what happens is a disease called GVHD, which is graft versus host disease can happen. And the form it took in my body was my skin reacting very terribly. It was very red, very sensitive, incredibly dry. And it would shed like a snake, just refreshing It was so fragile. So I couldn't use mainstream products to soothe my skin. I really needed the most pure ingredients possible. So Sarah, being my wonderful sister that she is and super creative, started to make plant-based blends at home for me. And I remember her researching and searching hard for the right kind of ingredients. And what she found was plant-based ingredients would be the most suitable because the molecular

structure is very, very similar to our own skin, which means the oils can be absorbed and are recognized by the skin. So the first blend that she made was our organic facial oil, which I absolutely love. And she saw really beautiful ingredients like sweet almond oil, apricot oil, evening primrose oil, pumpkin seed oil. And in together, they really helped my skin with the vitamin content that they had, the long lasting nourishment and the natural anti-inflammatory properties as well. So I started using that at home and we shared the blends with friends and family too. Very, very naturally, just people asking what we were doing and if we could help with them. And then Sarah started to develop further products as well so she created our organic body oil which is actually really great for those that are pregnant as well it has organic almond yeah I used it the whole first pregnancy wonderful

it's such a beautiful blend and what Sarah did as well was she created these organic plant-based blends, but they're free from essential oils and free from fragrance. So for pregnant ladies and also those with really sensitive skin like myself, they're really beautiful blends to enjoy because there's no allergens in there that are going to trigger a reaction. And something that we learned through this experience was particularly the benefits of organic choices where we could, because at the same time, I was suffering from something called neutropenia, which means essentially that the body is very, very low, has a very low immunity. And so I had a very restricted diet and I had a list from the hospital of what I could eat, what I couldn't eat. And I had to be very, very mindful because the body couldn't tolerate a high toxic load of chemicals. So we looked for organic choices as they're grown without synthetic pesticides and fertilizers and herbicides

and really becoming much more aware of our choices and really intentional about what we were eating and as well of course what we're putting on our skin and that's something we still do today and something we've carried through into the business we now have at Bicera London in putting a full ingredient list on that front label. So it's making it really easy to understand what's inside each blend and how those ingredients are going to help your skin. Because for me, this was unknown territory. And it was Sarah's education of really helping me understand the benefits of plant-based choices, the benefits of plant-based living to really help

take care of ourselves. And I think going through my experience, I learned that the body is very resilient, but it's also really quite fragile. And so we have to do the best we can to take care of it because we do only have one body and that kind of tension between resilience of the body but the fragility is something that we should I think be more mindful of as we take care of ourselves every day. So funny I'd never it's a really amazing way of putting it. I'd never really thought of that kind of quite complex tension between, as you said, the kind of amazing resilience and strength of the human body and the human mind, but also the real fragility of it and so much of the future for all of us so it's quite a yeah it's a really amazing way of putting it and it's also I mean it's I can't begin to imagine kind of what a unbelievable experience it is to go through everything that you've gone through with your sister and now work together I mean Matt and I get asked like every single day what's it like to work with your husband what's it like to work with your husband what's it like to work with your sister

it's fantastic I mean we were always super close growing up and we're just under two years apart in age and going through the treatment I mean for Sarah as well having to cut my hair that I can't imagine that must have been extremely difficult for her. And she was incredibly brave and incredibly strong for me the whole time. And now working together, it's an absolute blessing. And it's funny because growing up, we were very close and friends and family would say that we actually look like twins, even though I think we look quite different. But having the transplant, my blood type actually changed as a result. So we're pretty much as close biologically as you can be to twins

now more than ever. We're best friends as well as sisters. And I think it helps that we're so close, but we're very different as well. We have really different interests. We have really different strengths and weaknesses. So we complement each other rather than conflict, which is extremely helpful, I think, in business. Yeah, absolutely. I always say that about me and Matt. We're kind of like a real ying to each other's yang. I mean, he's at the moment, like he's spending his extra time from corona learning about like doing this excel course learning about something called bba and like he's so kind of nerdy about it and i'm using the extra time to read a book about our chakras yeah yeah um you know and our energy and how our chakras

are created and formed and blockages of energy and it's like you can't get to can't really get more different than that but I think it meets you in the middle and in a nice way Lauren we're so incredibly grateful for you sharing what you've shared today is obviously so intimate and so personal but I think as you said there's so much you know definitely for me just having this this conversation, there's so much to take away from it and so much for us all. Obviously, we're not experiencing or very few of us are experiencing on a personal level anything near what you went through. But I think, obviously, there is a sense of uncertainty and change and distance in all of our lives at the moment. And I think it's so easy to get consumed by the negative side of that. And actually, as you said, there's so much to learn from it and so much that we can do. And as you said, you know, everything else might be outside of our control, but our mind isn't. And what can we do to kind of support that? We always wrap up every episode with kind of three to five take homes for our listeners.

Like just little kind of nuggets of wisdom take homes for our listeners, like things, just little kind of nuggets of wisdom for them to remember from the episode. And I wondered if you could share yours with us. Sure. I think at times like this, more than ever, really embrace the stillness and really see it as a gift to yourself to take the time to reflect on your goals, what you value. And the answers might not be what you expect. And that's a really interesting launchpad to explore what you might want to do. If it's something different or something new, that could be really interesting. And as well to create an environment that really inspires you and empowers

you. And for me, going back to those days in hospital, creating those posters, those beacons of hope for me was so, so incredibly powerful. And I later did end up working in both New York and the Caribbean. So I truly believe that what you put around you can become a future reality. And I really love positive affirmations and mantras. So I'll share mine with you. And maybe there's one that inspires you, or you might start to search for and keep it close to you, whether it's on your bedside table or your desk. And for me, it's live life as if everything is rigged in your favor. And it just helps me find some perspective sometimes when times are difficult. And I really encourage you to find yours because it might be helpful in the days and weeks ahead.

And then finally, something that we really encourage by Sarah is finding skincare that really cares for you and to see if you can find a way to incorporate it as part of your daily ritual. So for me, connecting with my skin is really powerful given the journey I've had with my skin. And now I'm in a really good place and my skin is healthy I really enjoy taking that time every day to enjoy my skincare to enjoy my by Sarah and just help me feel grounded but also connected so that would be a final tip amazing thing and I just have to say a second that's amazing I woke up this morning just feeling a bit like actually just feeling really pregnant and just like chronic indigestion all the like the rank stuff that comes with pregnancy that

people don't talk about and and it was literally just saying to Matt before we got on the phone it's amazing what a difference like just taking two minutes even just to look after yourself can yes do and you know that is like as you said taking time to like put on your you know nice product and just doing a little nice thing for yourself it makes the world of difference um especially yeah when you can be feeling a bit kind of it's magic and um I'm also I'm really really excited to finish this by saying um I think I said the beginning I met Lauren's sister Sarah the other half of by Sarah about must be almost two years ago now and Matt and I have been like massive fans of the products ever since Matt is actually your number one fan he uses

the oil so religiously so it's unisex thank you so sweet he absolutely loves it they're amazing amazing products I think we said a few weeks ago we've just launched an online shop and and initially the plan was just just to get you guys our products from there but you know at Delicious Yellow I think one of the things that on a personal level I found so exciting has been that you know we've got to meet so many amazing amazing people like you guys who are really doing just really beautiful brilliant innovative different things that sit so closely with everything we believe in as both as individuals and as a company about celebrating natural brands and a more natural way of living and so we're starting to collate

our favorite brands having those on the web shop as well which I hope will be exciting as well to be able to kind of get to know sometimes smaller brands that maybe you haven't come across before but they're that basically everything from our bathroom, kitchen, cupboards and from around our house that we love, we swear by and we've been lucky enough to be introduced to over the last couple of years. So you'll find the Bicera products there, our favorite products from Self Care Co, which is a beautiful natural candle company, and they make amazing room diffusers and things we actually had nicole who's their founder on the podcast a couple of seasons ago she has an amazing story as well and so we're hoping yeah we can support amazing brands and work with amazing brands through it

so yeah everything's on deliciousiella.com and and just thank you so so much lauren um for your time today and we we just so appreciate it. It's definitely an incredible story and unbelievable testament to you and obviously business massive testaments to both of you. And thanks so much for a story of inspiration. Thank you, Ella. It's been a pleasure to chat with you and thank you for sharing my story. I really hope, particularly at this time it helps to empower you and give you a sense of hope when you might be feeling quite lost or quite powerless so thank you again Ella we love you we love Deliciously Ella and I'm really thrilled that you're sharing our story thank you we will see you guys all back here next Tuesday and I think I'm going to get Lauren's quote of live

life as though everything's rigged in your favor tattooed on on everybody because it's brilliant. See you guys next Tuesday. Thanks so much. You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn ads. Choose from hundreds of top Thank you.