The Wellness Scoop - Fruit Sugar, Plant Diversity & When Healthy Tracking Turns Unhealthy

Episode Date: May 21, 2026

This week we answer some of your most thoughtful questions yet, from whether fruit sugar is actually something we should worry about, to how to approach calorie tracking if you’ve struggled with obsessive thoughts around food in the past. We also discuss sausages, healthier swaps, whether chia seeds really need soaking, how to build plant diversity while batch cooking, and whether you can still thrive nutritionally if you don’t enjoy fruit. Send your questions for our weekly Q&A to ⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠ Recommendations: Garden inspo from Shirley Kemp Ella recommends giant cous-cous Listener Jenny recommends Sarah Ockwell-Smith's new book 'How To Raise a Gentle Man' For more from Rhi and Ella:  Order your copy of Ella's new book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quick Wins: Healthy Cooking for Busy Lives⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Order your copy of Rhi's new book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Fibre Formula⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sign up to ⁠Rhitrition+⁠ Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code Scoop at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to https://saily.com/scoop/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. With the two of us, as always, I'm Ella Males. And I'm Rihanna Lambert. And as you can tell from our voices, we are so delighted to be here. As always, taking your incredible recommendations and questions. So let's dive into it. What's coming up on today's show? Roof, hit us with it.

And we've got, is fruit sugar actually bad for us? The truth about processed meat and healthier swaps. smart ways to hit 30 plants a week, where the cheer seeds really need soaking. I mean, it's a big episode today. Can you be healthy if you don't eat fruit? Then when calorie tracking starts becoming unhelpful. First of all, Rhee, have you got any wrecks for us? Do you know?

I do. First one's for you, Ella. I've been so excited to share this. I have found your new garden inspo. Oh my gosh, tell me. So I actually think it might also be something that we'd all aspire to one day, but Shirley Kemp. Okay.

So she is, of course, wife of Martin Kemp. Okay. So he was in Spando Ballet. Right. It's funny because I actually bumped into them at Gabby Logan's podcast studio. And I realized I don't live that far away from them. We have a little chat. And I said, oh, you know, I got the train and how about you?

And obviously they drove in, but, you know, they weren't going to get on the train, were they? But anyway, she has this incredible Instagram account called Amazon Number 9. It is the most stunning garden account. And I mean complete inspiration. It is absolutely beautiful. Oh my gosh, I can't wait to get it. My name is my whole Instagram algorithm is garden, garden, garden, like how to prune tomato plants. Yeah.

Like the best way to kind of put twine around them so they grow tall. Move over sourdough. We have moved on to a next level of. Okay, gone away. Honestly, it is so beautiful. So shout out to Shirley Kent because you have done the most incredible job. It's my retirement dream is alongside an animal shelter to have a garden like that. Oh my gosh, okay.

I can't wait to scroll later. Yeah. And then I actually got the jet washer out and our patio hasn't been jet wash in six years since moved into our house. And I don't know what came over me, but I really just wanted to clean it. I bet that was very satisfying. It was very satisfying. Very satisfying. I love a jet washer.

Although I discovered that it has to be done in stages. This is very boring. I'm telling you. It's a niche recommendation. It would be honest. So niche recommendation. And you know, we only had a jet washer two years ago. so we hadn't really had time to use it.

Ella, let's move on for my waffle. I'm sure you've got something far more realistic for people. Okay, do you know my recommendation this week is Giant Cuscus? I love Giant Cus. Oh my gosh. I love it. I hadn't thought about it for ages. I've never cooked it at home, you know.

I've only ever brought it on the go. Oh my God, it's so good. It's so easy. It cooks in packets always say six to eight minutes. Personally, I think it's more like eight minutes. Where do you buy yours? I am quite an Accardo fan. Yeah, I am because I think it was an M&S own brand one on there.

Giant Cus. Oh my gosh. Funnily enough, the kids had it at school randomly, which is amazing. And then they were like, we really like it. And I'm trying really hard to get them to try different things at the moment. Anyway, it made this, may I say it myself, delicious, like red pepper, chickpea, lemon zest, sort of kuska salad. My mum came over on Saturday and we had it as part of a lovely spread with some like gorgeous dips and all the rest of it. Anyways, it's so good because it cooks really quickly.

The leftovers are amazing. As in thinking like rice and pasta, their leftovers aren't great. whereas Giant Cuscus is amazing. I really like Kinoa, but I appreciate it's also not for everyone. But the texture isn't like Giant Cucas. I'm literally adding it to my shopping list now. Put it on your list for spring summer salads. Guys, giant cuscus is excellent.

It's so good. I've also become obsessed with this microcurrent device called it a zip. And I didn't share what the thing I'd brought was that week. Do you remember? And then I saw you put it on social. So I actually think I maybe should have gone with your one because it's got more research. but I was influenced by Liv. She had this depuffy,

which is like a hot and cold device that you massage your face with. Ooh, that sounds nice. I'm enjoying it, but then I saw Ella's device and I was like, I should have held out and waited. Oh my gosh.

So I got this device called, yeah, it's called a Zip. I think it's a little Zip Halo. Anyways, is this microcurrent device. Does it vibrate? Not really. Like, so gently. Anyway, you kind of do it around your face.

Oh, it feels so nice. You do like four to six minutes. I'm obsessed. I really want to join it. Yeah. For Ella always glows. So for Ella, yes, you're glowing more than usual today. But I'm obsessed.

Giantcus is my core recommendation this week. And the new sent to some as well. So we have a lovely bit of listening feedback from Jenny. She said, I'm listening to Sarah Ocoresmith's new book, How to Raise a Gentleman. Oh, I need this book. It's a guide for parents and carers who want to raise kind, emotionally intelligent and a respectful boys. I passionately feel it's a must read for anyone with boys. grandparents teachers. Everyone really. It explores the history of masculinity, building emotional

intelligence in boys, encouraging open conversations and even challenging online toxicity. This information is so important. And given your platform, I'd be appreciative if you spread the word. She says her lovely little boy is five. And from the time he was young, I could see how the world caters to boys and girls differently. It's so true. I've got two boys, mine are three and six. I agree. Toys, clothing, colors, materials, phrases you use. And, she says I can't bear to think of him changing from the kind sweet kid he is and feeling like he has to fit into a mould of what it means to be a boy. She said that we don't teach boys how to embrace their gentleness and that needs to change. And you know what's interesting, Ella, as a boy mum, I actually had this conversation with my husband the other night.

I said, am I molly coddling by being gentle, kind? And this is the approach I'm very much taking with them. Am I doing them a disservice by sitting down with them and watching the Frog Princess film or sleeping beauty? maybe I should just be letting them watch superheroes all the time and, you know, buying into that area. And I did doubt myself as a parent, but this, thank you for sending this because it's made me feel a little bit better. I could cry. But it's so difficult raising boys today. Yeah, I so appreciate that.

It's such a good recommendation. Thank you. And then, Rhee, you have got actually a voice note for us, haven't you, from Giles, as a follow-up to our conversational Monday? I do. Giles, you know, is one of the most incredible speakers and researchers. And he has got a lovely voice note for us discussing the differences between weight, the challenges, of course, with JLP1's mindset around that and genes. Why do people eat? You know, people say I eat because I'm hungry.

I stop eating because I'm full. But really, why we eat is our appetite, right? And appetite is an interesting word. It's because it's an integrative term which pulls together a number of different concepts. It pulls together hunger, which we all understand. rumbly feeling in the stomach. It pulls together fullness, which people think is the opposite to hunger, but actually is regulated by a completely different part of the brain and completely different neurocircuits. And some people eat because they feel nice, the rewarding elements of it.

And so appetite encompasses hunger, fullness, and reward. And appetite sits in the middle of this triangle. And some people eat because it's more rewarding. Other people eat because they feel less full. Other people eat because they're more hungry, but all three parts of the brain, all three of these different behaviors speak to each other. That is our appetite. Rie, can I ask you a question before we go into other people's questions? It just came up to mind for me on fruit sugar, because we're going to talk about that in a second. Now, on my algorithm, I often see, and have seen for very, very long time, but I still see. It feels more outdated than it did, but there are some influencers who eat like I'm just going to be really gentle in the way I use excessive but I'm going

to say excessive amounts of fruit like 15 dates as a snack like four bananas and they eat just so much it's more like stems from that kind of raw vegan movement that existed in the past can you just sort of slightly break that down because I look at it and I'm like I love dates that like one of my favorite foods. I love them so much. I think they're so yummy. But like, surely that's not a snack. What I hear when I hear that is what a missed opportunity to get variety elsewhere and a balance of natural different types of sugars. You've got a lot of fructose, but where's the vitamins and minerals and nutrients coming from other items of food? You know, that is excess. You can have healthy, stereotypally healthy food in excess. You could have too much broccoli.

You can have too much avocado, too much fruit. And where I say, you know, you can have healthy, on that is that's extreme, that's not normal. That is most definitely an extremity. I find it really difficult because it's often very slim people and they're like doing the sort of water eating in a day. No calories in fruit. Fruit is very low energy dense. So low calorie, essentially.

Yeah. And you're filling up on the same nutrients, but also a lot of fruit sugars in that quantity probably isn't great either. It's just a lot of work for your liver. But it's not dangerous per se. It depends on the individual on what their base level of health is and when they're doing that as to how it impacts them. But they're very slim because they're missing out on the healthy fats that their brain needs to function, their heart needs to be supported. They're only feeding their microbiome one type of food for their gut bugs.

I find it tricky because there's a lot of what I eat in a day and that kind of thing. And then you see people being like, yeah, I'll follow your plan. Can I follow your plan because they want to look like that? Anyway, I see it a fair amount probably because I spend too much, I'm watching it because it fascinates. me. I haven't seen that in about 10 years, you know. I reckon that's going to make a resurgence. And if you're seeing it now, it's probably going to come round again. It comes by the same thing, isn't it? Where like, it's lots of people in kind of this kind of sense of an idealised body image. Yeah, I know. And then when anyone has that kind of idealised body image, everyone else wants to know

how they got it. Yeah. And then they can sell it to them. Essentially, that's all I see. And there's just such a currency in that. Anyway, this is just one of the many different iterations of that. But I find it crazy and then you see people who feel kind of not I don't want to say vulnerable because that's not always the case but oftentimes vulnerable underneath being like can I have your meal plan? Do you know we said one week? I think it was like three weeks ago. We said why do people feel the need to share what they eat in a day to begin with? This is really commercially viable. Exactly. So we've just got to stop and think why are you telling me what you ate that day? Like what do you gain from loads of validation from strangers on what you ate in a day? Is it to sell something? Is it for your self-esteem?

But then it's interesting because we've also had some emails from listeners who said, yes, but sometimes I want to know what you guys eat in a day because we'll give me ideas and inspiration. But that's different because we won't do a full video that says, why did you eat in a day? You can share your cuscus for lunch at the weekend. No, but they're always saying I'm curious, not because I want to copy it because I'm trying to, obviously we don't have video for this. No, we don't. You know what we look like today.

We love the no video. But the sense of like, I want more ideas and inspiration and like things that fit into a busy life. So wanting to see it for that reason, which feels very different to me. I get it. I mean, perhaps videos like this is what I had for lunch one day, but you don't need to do the whole full day. What's the best thing you cooked last week?

The best thing I cooked last week was this tart I made for the kids. I'm trying to get some really traditional different foods in that I don't often go towards. And I made a butternut squash, feta, easy short crust pastry tart. Oh, that sounds very fancy. Yeah, but it wasn't. I made it with my three-year-old. He got on his little toddler towel, you know, he puts his apron on. You just whisk up the eggs, add the roasted butternut squash, some onions and some feta,

put it in your short crust pastry that you put in your tin. You can buy a ready roll-up. You don't have to make short-cross pastry from scratch. It bakes in like 25 minutes. Lucky kids. I know. No, it was really good. Although my eldest proceeded to say, I don't like that mommy the minute he looked at it,

and then he ate it and said he did like it. So you know what it's like. You've got to keep pushing. Oh, my God. I do. Sorry, we've digressed completely. And it sounds like Anna does. Our first question today.

She said, hi, ladies. I love the pod. It keeps me. on my 5 a.m run with two small kids. Five a.m. runs. I think she goes on 5 a.m. runs and she has two small kids. I don't think the kids are going on the runs. Yeah, I think way we're reading and we're reading it wrong.

Anyways, my almost 5-year-old love sausages, and while I try to serve loads of veggies alongside, I worry about process meats and additives. I buy higher quality sausages, but they still come up as unhealthy on apps. Is once a week okay. Are there better options available? If you're a meat eater and you love sausages, just try and swap for chicken sausages every now and again.

Look, they don't taste the same because they don't. don't have the saturated fat content of a processed sausage or pork sausage. But I do think for your health overall, it is better to cut down items like that. If they love them, see if you can get them into that. It's important to remember sausages have a lot of saturated fat and salt. Plant-based alternatives are good to make a switch initially, but again, you don't have too much of those are also UPF technically. Yeah, and they're not gray either. Like, I think, but obviously ingredient-wise, but also, I think, kind of flavour wise. That's when I always struggle.

And it's interesting, been in many a buyer meeting recently, kind of talking about the plant-based space and that part of the supermarkets and how shoppers are shopping. And actually, like, the number of kind of fully vegans, very much on the decline. And what's rising is people who are flexitarian, they're not necessarily going to use that themselves, but people who are trying to reduce meat intake

and increase their plant intake, the list of the wellness scoop. But they're seeing these articles, they're becoming aware of it. And I always feel like sometimes if you do a swap and it's disappointing, it's the worst thing to do, do you know what I mean? Where you're like, you love a food and you make a swap. And the swap's just nowhere that is good. So you better of having less of the thing you love.

That's my viewpoint. And then really prioritising kind of health giving foods on other days. Like we know obviously the processed red meats aren't very good for our gut health. And my personal advice is then. Exactly. But then really prioritize health giving foods on other days. other meals for the breakfast that day. Because I just always conscious that, like, I remember someone in our office saying this,

this was ages ago, but his boyfriend was a vegan. I think they were quite newly together, and he was really trying to get on board with it. And he went and he bought some vegan bacon, and he loved normal bacon. And he cooked it, and he thought it was so rank. He went straight to the shop and bought normal bacon. And I was like, yeah, that was a way to lose him. Whereas if we, instead of doing that, had made the most delicious spread with, like,

amazing kind of garlicky, pan-fried sundry tomato baked beans, but with homemade butterbeams are also juicy and delicious. And you've got an amazing, maybe like that Mexican brunch you went to kind of inspired avocado and salsas and all these like plant foods, but that are so delicious. You probably would have inspired him to eat more. Anyway, that's just my two cents on it. I like that two cents and I think it's an approach that would work for lots of people. It's just, it's important to remember that we need all these different options for different people. Of course. Like you've got the generation of people that have had a pork sausage for breakfast seven days a week, you know, and they need to make a switch.

That's when perhaps a meat alternative is the only option. They're not going to want to deviate from that. They're very stuck in their ways. And of course, that is better than increasing your risk of cancer and saturated fat. But ultimately, I remember working with a brand back in 2017, creating veggie sausages that were actually vegetables with heck. And I had a whole range. I had my little name on the pack.

And I remember they were green and purple. They were vibrant colors because we were actually using vegetables. We went to the factory and checked it all. And that sort of thing just didn't take off because people just, like you just said, Ella, they don't want vegetable. They want a sausage. They don't want a vegetable sausage. It's interesting again, if you talk to buyers and supermarkets, they always say these veg forward brands. Yeah.

Most of the time, they don't work. Anyway, back to your child, back to your five-year-old, I would most definitely be conscious of how much red processed meat. Maybe you can swap to like the heck chicken sausages or something instead. for now and just see how you go. Yeah, totally. And I think for other people, if you're cooking, for me, my big's advice is if you just want to reduce your intake and up your intake of plants, really just focus on something that's completely different.

Like if you love red meat and you love steak, maybe instead of having it a couple of times a week, it's once a week and on another meal, make something that's like a beautiful, like slow roasted obegene and lentil ragu with shallots and garlic and a lovely rich tomato sauce. meso for depth. It's completely different. So you can't compare the two. And then you can kind of enjoy a bit of everything. I love that. Let's get creative in the kitchen, everyone. Okay, we're going to do a very quick ad break. And when we come back, we are going to be talking about all sorts of things. So we'll see you in one sec. Okay, welcome back. Our next question comes from Emily, who is in West Sussex. Hi, I really appreciate your balanced approach to nutrition. So I've been focusing on improving my diet and

fiber intake and I eat throughout the day, breakfast, snacks and after dinner. I see mixed advice online. Here we go. It's the fruit and sugar question about fruit and sugar. Is there such things as eating too much fruit? I mean, we have kind of touched on that Ella, but what are you, what are your thoughts actually? You asked me, I want to know your thoughts. I mean, look, this is again the same thing. Like I see, as I said, some people online and when I see people online, I mean people with like hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers, so people with significant influence on a community where they're eating like 15 to 30 days. Are they often in bikinis and things?

So I'm visualising what it used to be 10 years ago. They're often like, yeah. There's a lot of flash available. Yeah, yeah. Selling a kind of very aspiring lifestyle and body image. Yeah, very low body fat. Very low body fat. And obviously I look at that and I'm like, it's hard for me to not say that's too much fruit.

Because also to your point, like if you eat six bananas or 30 dates, you're not going to eat other things as well because you're going to be really full. And so that's challenging. I feel like as a quote unquote normal person, I think there's many other things to be worried about. And I feel, you know, Monday we were talking about how kind of the idea that plant milks are the root cause of childhood obesity, as per some headlines, kind of intonating, is very hard to see that. And I think fruit sugar is kind of to me the same. Like, it feels inherently positive versus many other things. And like you've got to eat how you enjoy, right?

Exactly. Like the studies, there's no studies that say eating fruit is bad for you. I feel like we over-prioritized vegetables when we talk about healthy food to fruit. We do. We do. there's no harm in having like three portions of fruit and two of veg one day. But what Ella's discussing with that trend is really extreme. And that is not normal to have just fruit in your diet. But for the majority of us are actually not eating enough fruit, Ella.

Totally. And I remember like getting your five a day, we all know we really struggle with it. That's why one in five adults manages it only 4% of people get enough fibre. But we really struggle. So kind of get it where you can. Is that maybe if we actually just ate some more fruit, we'd be hitting those targets? Yeah. Like wouldn't it be better for things?

three or four portions of that to come from fruit than not having it. Do you know what I did for fun at the week's totally off topic but slightly related is we've got a little juiceer. My friend Lucy got a juicer. I saw her, I am quite influenced actually by people more than I think. Lucy, Lucy, you got a juicer.

I saw her do it with her kids for fun. I thought, I want to show my kids how fruit juice is made. So I got one of those tiny juices, you know the traditional one that just... Like an orange juice. Yeah, you just hold... My grandma used to have it.

You put the grapefruit on top of the orange. And they're like, wow, mommy. That's like eight oranges to make. that much juice. I know, isn't it delicious? And I was just celebrating it. But I wanted them to really see the difference. I didn't give a lecture about it.

We just all enjoyed the fresh fruit juice for breakfast. It was a lovely treat. But I think we just lack so much education with how good fruit actually is. And all of the research, all the long, randomized control trials, point towards longevity, cardiovascular health, you know, increased fiber when you eat fruits. I'm not talking about fruit juice. I'm not talking about when you eat fruit. I mean, grapes, they were demonized for being sugar bombs.

they so ridiculous and then you've got a whole generation of people that are buying protein bars instead of grapes and I guess the better choices well it is the grape oh my god you know what you're going to be obsessed with first of all I made watermelon um juice at the weekend it was so good that's what I should do next blended watermelon with some mint lemon just a teeny squeeze and then honey I saw Millie McIntosh do that oh my god it was so good there's a trend going around making oh is that yeah Millie's very good at that she she tries all the wilder trends okay yeah yeah because one of the girls is obsessed with watermelon. I know I had just so much watermelon.

Anyway, it was so yummy. Oh my God, the thing you'll be obsessed with is a brand called Fruit Riot. They've only in Tusca at the moment. It's a friend of Matt's from the US and gone nuts in the US and he's actually distributing it over here. But their frozen grapes with sour candy coating. So you know like sour candy, like sour sweets? Oh, like the sour candy kittens.

Yeah, exactly. So the coating of that but without the sweets on a frozen grape. Oh, I like that. You love that. That's cool. There's another one that we got the other day. This one, I don't know. We got it in Sainsbury's.

I don't know if it's anywhere else. They're called Hidden Frues and it's like an ice cream tub. And they have chocolate covered frozen raspberries. Yeah. Well, I'll find those true fruit ones for like years. You know, but the ingredients on the hidden fruit ones. Yeah, because True Food's got a lot of multifries in their chocolate and I think I'll prefer the... This one's hidden frieze.

Nice. Okay. I'm going to check out. Oh, I'm very excited now. I've got some new snacks for the evening. Okay. So we have got a question from Sophia. She said, hi.

Thank you for your. honest and simple approach to nutrition, it's made such a difference. I'm trying to eat 30 plants a week and batch cook for convenience. But eating the same males repeatedly reduces variety. Do you have any tips for maintaining plant diversity while still batch cooking, especially for breakfasts? Yeah, really nice questions of here. And like, I would say probably reduce variety.

And in lots of cases, certainly for me, would also reduce, like, fun and enjoyment and joy from food, which I'm very passionate about. and I think it's like a fundamental key to success when it comes to a healthy diet over time. So I totally get it. Like you're doing the quote unquote right thing by batch cooking and getting healthy food in there, but then maybe not enjoying it. It depends. It's very difficult to give general advice on the sense of I don't know what your lifestyle is

and how little time you have. For me, like I wouldn't batch cook breakfasts because I like to eat different things in the morning. And I think there's lots of different things you can have, be that like, overnight oats and with cheer one day and you know you can do some nice um maybe like dried apricots and peanut butter on the top and then another day it might be you know if you eat eggs it's like boiled eggs with nice toast or it's avocado on toast and toppings are a good way of keeping it fresh for the gut by but i think for breakfast it's quite hard to batch cook with variety if i'm honest and i think there's quite a lot of five minute breakfast available so if it was mayor would do that things like smoothies

are quite nice to like batch in advance because obviously you can do just freezer bags or you can make one even the night before and then just have it to go in the morning. Exactly. You can do a different one each night. You can put it all in a freezer bag. Yes. So you can put in your fruit, your different nuts and seeds, ginger, whatever you're going to put in and pop it all in a bag and then you literally just dump that into the blender with some milk

or some liquid and then you're ready to go. I think I agree with toppings. So like if I was going to make, I don't know, we made a really delicious lentil ragu this week. And I've got leftovers and like I could do it one day. But you could do it with a different base. Yeah, exactly. So I did it just in pasta, super simple Sunday night supper. But then another night this week I'll probably do it.

And I've got some like soft-shelled tacos. So I'll probably do it with that. Giant cuscus. Exactly. Some giant cusses. But so I'll do it with tacos and I'll do some like a kind of yogurty situation where there might do some roasted sweet potatoes. So when you put all that on top, it's going to taste like a very different meal.

and then I probably would use if I had extra I wouldn't use that for a couple more weeks to get that variety in but that's just me yeah no I think it's a really good advice Ella and as with regards to your gut bugs I wouldn't worry it sounds like you're doing a fantastic job you're very aware of it and you've just got to keep striving to do what you can for you I wouldn't panic about the 30 plants

to that extent would be my own advice there because it sounds like you're doing great by even just batch cooking and also remember like nothing in life has to be perfect like 27 plants in a week excellent 32 also excellent I know, it's still really good. The incremental difference between 29 and 30 is probably small, so I think that's always a nice reminder. So the next question we've got is from Julia. She says, hi, Ella and Reid.

Thank you for your evidence-based and compassionate approach. It's really refreshing. We love that, don't we, Ella? Because we get a lot of messages like that and that means a lot to us. She said, I use a calorie tracking app which has helped me improve my diet and understand portions. But I have a history of disorder eating and worry about becoming two focused on numbers again. How can I use tracking as a helpful tool without it becoming? obsessive.

Such a great question. Rie, I'm really going to hand over to you on this one. I feel like this is so much more your area of expertise. I have to say just on personal experience and really grateful to say, eating hasn't been a challenge for me, but tracking was the least helpful thing I have ever done in my life when it came to my health. Like I tried it. I actually, funny enough, I met my sister for coffee this morning and I've given her my

aura ring. I never need to see it ever again as long as I live. But I found it just like, It was stressing me out, like looking at sleep scores and stress scores and HRV scores. Like, I didn't come into it stress and it made me stress because I wanted to do it right because that's definitely my personality. I don't like to do things not perfectly. And I was like, I'm fine.

I don't eat this. This is making me feel so much worse. I think it's possible to use dietary tool apps without calories. And I think that's probably the best approach for lots of people. And if you're trying to get, for example, like if it's. to help you understand and improve your diet. You don't need the calories. Just use your notes app and record, like,

if you're trying to get 30 plants, like record it on your notes app. Yeah. If it was me, I'd want to put the joy back in. I'm just saying that a lot to say, but feel it's so important and I would personally, I wouldn't be tracking it. But if you want to keep a note of it, you can do that literally, as I said,

in a simple way, like notes app. It's really difficult. If you've been in that situation, first of all, like Ella just said, she understands herself and what makes her tick and work. and even Ella tried the aura ring and was like, what am I doing? You know, I think we all become vulnerable to wanting to try things and explore things. And you got to know who you are.

And as I said, like, I'm a Taipei person. Like, I like to do it right. I like to achieve when I do things. Me too. I don't know how to slow down sometimes. And so having a bad mark for my aura ring was like, I can't cope with that. That's why I have no tracking apps whatsoever because I know for my personality it's not. I don't like to get a bad mark.

But I understand where you're coming from because foods, you've had a history there. And thank you for sharing that because you're not alone. In fact, this is something we're going to do on Retrition Plus with journeys guiding you through relationship with food clinic sessions because what's so important, I think, is understanding where help and harm come into play and how that's impacting you and how preoccupying it's becoming. If it's becoming a daily preoccupation with the calories or the number or you're slightly worried about it, I'd say that's enough of a red flag for me to say.

say as a health professional, get rid of it, you know, it might be providing some initial inspiration, but like Ella said, you can do that with the notes app on your phone. It's the language. So instead of having a look at things like how few calories can I, did I hit a target today with the numbers of the food? And this applies to macro accounting too. I just want to add that because I have always found that world in fitness inspo world of macro accounting very detrimental. And I know there are professionals out there that swear by it if you're in the fitness industry, but it doesn't focus on overall micronutrient intake of vitamins and minerals. It doesn't focus on fibre.

It's completely negated. So positive nutrition, I think, is much more. How much can I add in? How many plants can I add in? How's my energy today? Am I hitting my fibre goals, which contains a vast variety of food? How do I actually feel? Have I actually allowed myself to be full?

Have I not allowed myself to be full? What are your boundaries? if you're becoming frequently preoccupied of logging things in tracking apps and it's really impacting your relationships and where you go and your decisions every day, that's definitely a big sign. So I could go off and one for a very long time here,

but I feel that it's such a complex subject and we've got to have so much compassion, haven't we? Ella, because I know there'll be thousands of you listening that are experiencing this right now with always apps being thrown at you and people you respect online are being paid by whoop and all these big tech companies. So it can be very overwhelming.

It's everywhere. It's like thrown in your face. It's something we need to do to be able to function. And I'm just not sure it is. And everyone's individual and there's all sorts of like personal responses. But then for some people it would help, wouldn't it? This is just it. This is why it's so hard.

But I think if you're known, if you know yourself that you're prone to overthinking it and then kind of taking it too far personally, I think it's probably better not to. I agree. So, um, yeah. We have two quick questions now to round us off. We have Laura, who said she's been loving the podcast. Rie, should we soak cheer seeds before eating them? She's been adding them to dry to yoghurt and granola,

but she's seen things online suggesting that could cause digestive issues. Soaking cheer seeds, yes or no? No, you don't need to soak your cheer seeds. Honestly, I think this is when we, unless you have a specific condition like diverticulitis or something where you really need to be aware of your digestive capacity, you just don't need to worry about these things at all. There's no evidence that having some cheer seeds is going to negatively impact your health if they haven't been soaked. And we've seen this rhetoric.

We've seen this narrative play out, haven't we, with other foods, pulses and things. Oh my God, yeah. Pulses are going to murder you in the night. The lectin conversation, yeah. You know, all nightshade bed. Yeah, well, we've seen it in so many areas. I would just love it if you sprinkled them on your porridge in the morning even sometimes. You know, they're still a source of amigos.

And yes, sometimes bioavailability. of some foods can be enhanced with soaking, but they're not going to cause digestive issues. They're not going to expand in your digestive tract. That's what you see on social. Is that what you say? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, I use them both.

I love cheer pudding. Some people think to take so frog's born. I really like it. And I put oats and vanilla and yogurt and things like that. I mix it in the boys porridge in the morning. Or like if I'm making pancakes or something, I'll just chuck a few cheer seeds and you can't taste them. You've used it for years.

Yeah, yeah, I've used them for ages. But then I did see exactly that online being like, if you use them dry, because, you know, they expand kind of 10 to 12 times their size. But that's still tiny. I know, but as though that's going to like sort of somewhere in your esophagus or something. Do you know what I mean? You have this weird image in your mind.

Oh, it's odd. Anyway. Our bodies are cleverer than we give them credit for. Really clever. And I promise you you're not going to have a gut that's lined of cheer seeds. Okay. And our final question for today on the topic of fruit, Alex. Hi, huge fan from sunny South Sea.

I don't like the taste of fruit, be a varied plant-based diet, with lots of veggies, legumes and grains, should I be concerned about missing any nutrients or any specific vegetables I should focus on if I don't really eat fruit? So I'm really, really glad we brought this one up because specific veg and fruit is where I think people get fixated on. Like I think broccoli has that ultimate image of health, doesn't it? If you think, am I going to improve my health? Often you see an image of broccoli or an apple.

They're the two foods. Or a blueberry. Blueberries, yeah, they are. They're like the foods that I think are. But broccoli, I agree. placed at the hierarchy, especially for children, there's this strange messaging that broccoli is like the answer for everything. You could probably get more vitamin C and a red pepper than a portion of broccoli for a child, you see. So by placing a hierarchy on veg and fruit, I think it's really

unhelpful. I understand completely that you don't like the taste of fruit and you like the taste of, you know, veggies and legumes more. And I think you're not going to be missing. So fruit provides fiber, first of all, as long as you're replacing the fiber with the legumes, which you definitely are and the vegetables, you're fine. Fruit contains vitamin C or soda vegetables. As you said, red peppers. Exactly. You're totally fine there.

What I will say is fruit offers calcium just as much as vegetables do. So that's one mineral that you can potentially be aware of. But as long as you're getting calcium from leafy greens and other areas within your diet, you're soy products, your calcium is that tofu? So I don't think you're particularly missing anything. The one thing that's easier in fruit is amphicinines, sort of from dark-colored, like pomegranates, dark berries, blueberries, blackberries, they are protective for our brain. With vegetables, not so much, it's very difficult to get those.

Unless you love obergine or nightshades, that sort of thing. It's not as abundant. But that is me nitpicking to a level and degree that I don't think anyone really needs to worry about. Do you know, I don't really like uncooked fruit. So you like to make stews and compots and things. I love that on a porridge or crumbles. Oh, my God, obsessed. And then, because I know these things are really good for me,

I then make, part of the reason I have smoothies. What about pear? That's juicy pear? Mm-mm. Wow. No, it doesn't do with me. Like raw apple. Mm-mm.

No. I know. Apple and nut butter? I don't particularly like berries. But then I love them in a smoothie. I love it cooked. I don't like the texture of uncoached fruit generally. I understand why at Wimbledon season.

People have strawberries and add sugar or cream because for many people, I do understand that. But yeah, don't worry is the answer. Like roasted strawberry. I know. Oh, my God. Heaven. Even well did those every week producer well. That was roasted.

That was roasted. is strawberries. They are the best. They're so good. But a raw strawberry, I'm fine. In a smoothie, love it. My mum's over at the moment for a night. She doesn't get to visit often. And the one thing I've tasked her with today while I'm here in the studio is to, because when it was a child, I loved crumble. It's still my favorite thing today. I said, oh, can you make, you know, a nice frozen berry ginger crumble when we get home? I'm so excited. I bought some rhubub to make rubble and rubymp, come part this week. That is my childhood. So I'm part Welsh and I used to go to Cardiff to see my grandparents on my mum's side. They grew it in their garden. But like they,

they didn't have a big house. It's like a tiny little, like gum, but a lot of them's in there. Rubarb was really popular. They used to grow runner beans and rhubarb that's like very old school. I love it. I used to love it, but I need a lot of sugar on ruby. Yeah, it needs a lot of sugar. It's so tart. It's so tart. Anyway, we've totally digressed. You're not missing out. Don't worry. You're getting loads from veg and legumes. Everyone's different. We don't all have to love everything. No one's perfect. Nothing's perfect. Life isn't perfect. There we go. That's why we're here. We will see you back on Monday for our episode. And please do keep your emails coming, your questions, your Spotify reviews. Thank you.

I appreciate the honesty in the Spotify reviews as well. And sometimes I do reply to them. Yeah, I love it. And if you have a question, hello at wellness-scoop.com. Have a great day, guys.