The Wellness Scoop - How to Beat the Afternoon Slump, Breakfast Myths & Food Pairing

Episode Date: April 23, 2026

This week on The Wellness Scoop, we answer your questions on some of the most common and confusing everyday health habits, from that mid-afternoon energy crash to whether cold breakfasts really slow your metabolism. We break down why the 2 to 3pm slump happens and how to manage it, unpack viral nutrition myths around hot versus cold breakfasts and food pairing, explore whether nutritional yeast is a reliable source of B12, look at what actually feeds your gut microbiome, and share simple, realistic ways to eat well when you’re unwell. Recommendations:  Order your copy of Ella's new book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quick Wins: Healthy Cooking for Busy Lives⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Pre-order your copy of Rhi's upcoming book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Fibre Formula⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sign up to the wait list for ⁠Rhitrition+⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rihanna Lambert. And today we have got some very, very juicy topics to get into. And lots of questions that you have been sending us on our brand new email address. So let's go. We are talking about how to beat the afternoon slump, hot versus cold breakfast and your metabolism, nutritional yeast and B12, food pairing, nutrient absorption and a bit more on feeding your gut microbiome. So yeah, it's all there.

But, Rie, what are your recommendations for us first this week? Okay, I had to start with, I missed Wuthering Heights when it went to the cinema. Me too. Yeah, I missed it. I wanted to go. And then I finally saw it. I did spend £20 downloading it on Amazon. But I thought, do you know what?

It's better than the cinema ticket and all the food I would have got. So I sat down, watched it. Is it 20 pounds on Amazon? Yeah, it was like something like 19, something to download. Oh, my God. Yeah. So they'd got you for the whole, you know, this is the price of a feature film. you're about to watch early on Amazon type thing.

You know, they do those deals. I, you know, I would have paid it for Wicked. I would pay it for this, I suppose. But Wuthering Heights. How was it? I haven't seen it. I know what I'm doing tonight. There you go.

It might be cheaper now, Ella. I was in the initial rush. I think it was nothing like the book, which I expected, which was fine. It's very arty, I suppose, in the way it's direct. and shot. I found it at first very sad. It's very dark. It's very, very dark, very twisted.

It's not the romantic film you'd expect from the trailers. And at the end, I was in tears. But it was gripping in the way that I did enjoy the overall watch. But at the end, I was sobbing my eyes out, Ella, which I didn't expect to happen. That's interesting. It was like her film, Salt Burn. And someone was like, did you enjoy it? And I was like, no.

But I was entertained. Like, you know, there's so many things I watch and I'm like, oh, this is a bit boring. Whereas I'm not sure I liked it, but it was really thought-provoking and engaging. That's exactly how I described it because I think it was portrayed as a kind of girly film to go and see that's really romantic

and it's definitely not that at all. You know what? I bought the book like a month ago to read because I thought I really want to read the book. I obviously got this completely wrong. I know that now, but I really want to read the book before I watch the film, but actually they're so different.

I think that that's probably not the... We don't need to. Necessary. But I did, and I'm sorry, order it on Amazon, and they left it out in a rainstorm one night. And so I've got the book and I like, can't bear to buy it again, but I'm pretty sure it's unreadable. So I think I'm just going to watch the film. Yeah, there you go.

But don't take it as being classic Wuthering Heights. Well, I don't even know what classic Wuthering Heights is. Fine. I think I'll be good. Then that's probably lucky, actually. Yeah, exactly. And then my second recommendation is tapping. So Poppy Dalbridge does a lot of this.

I know she's got a new book coming out soon, but she's going into schools with it for children. And I thought, how wonderful, what an amazing initiative to get children to focus their energy in a difficult time in another sphere. And tapping is something I haven't done enough of, and I think I'd love to give it a go. Have you done it, Ella? I have done it.

And I actually really, really like it. it's a really interesting way of releasing emotion. Yeah, I do really like it actually. But I think it doesn't, for me, it doesn't have to just be, I guess to get that connection specifically following the kind of tapping protocol where you're kind of tapping on different points,

particularly around the top of your chest, kind of shoulder neck sort of area. But actually, it's just little things. Like when you're overwhelmed, just like putting one hand kind of on your chest and actually just like noticing that you're breathing. like I think that connection to yourself is really powerful and you know as you kind of are going through like a super super busy day

do you know sometimes you have those moments where I don't know you're like your mind is racing and you're in the shower and you're like oh have I shampooed my hair I'm not shampooed my hair and it's like you can't even remember because you're so sort of not in the moment you're so busy thinking about other things I actually read a stat this week that said our minds wonder 46.9% of the time So almost half of the time, your mind is stuck in the past worrying about something or it's catastrophizing the future, which is so interesting. The visible load. We're constantly just bombarded.

And I think things like tapping are just these interesting ways to just kind of get yourself back. I love that. She's got a book called Unlock Your Power. I just think it's something I haven't really spent enough time on. I've been meaning, you know, I've been saying it for years that I'll give it a go. So maybe that's the push I needed. I actually think you might really like it. Yeah, I feel like because it's more physical, I'm not just having to sit with myself.

It gives you something to focus on. I think that's what I need. Yeah, I think you should. I think it's really, really interesting. Okay, this is good to know. This is your sign. This is my sign. I might start tapping. And finally, nutrition plus is nearly ready. It's been months and months and months in the making. So I'll pop a sign up link in the show notes. But it's for anybody that wants to be in a nutrition hub in a space. My clinic team, I felt Ella like there's, it's really hard.

Not everybody can access a one-to-one session with my clinic team. So I've created a space in the community where I can host journeys where we can host journeys every single month. We can get you ready for the London Marathon with a nice group of people and I can host these webinars or my clinic team can do it. We can get you ready for a fertility journey. We can take your questions. We can do recipes.

It's just access to the Retrition Clinic in one space. And there's a particular student forums for anybody in nutrition students, we can help mentor you and support you on the Retrition Plus platform. And that's a space that I feel like I've spoken to Ella a lot about it. Everybody, she's giving me the most wonderful advice because I've never taken a plunge to doing anything like that before. I think it's absolutely amazing. And it's not to devalue working with someone one on one. Obviously, that's extraordinary. Like I've done that in the past.

And it's been of unbelievable value to my health. but it is, as you said, it's expensive, but also sometimes that group work can be so powerful as well. She said if you're getting ready for the marathon or something and being part of a community is obviously also so powerful. And a bargain, Ella, like you think about the price every month for a subscription versus a one-to-one. And you can get so much out of it. You can go on any time you want. And we've made it. There's actually nothing like it that exists because we've done a big deep dive of the entire marketplace of nutrition and what people are offering.

So I'm hoping to bring something really cool with nutrition plus. And Ella, onto you in terms of workshops, how is your first workshop? I have to know all the details. Yeah, I've done a few almost a month of teaching now. And with breathwork and meditation, I've just been doing a Sunday night sessions. And I love it. It's really interesting. I mean, you and I have done all sorts of different things in the world of wellness for a very long time now.

And, you know, like I built or helped build was part of a team that built a relatively big business. And I learned so much and it was a really valuable experience. I genuinely wouldn't change it for the world. But when I look, okay, what do I want to do next? I just, that commercial side of it is just not what kind of lights me up. It doesn't make me leap out of bed in the morning. And I think there is just as a collective and we know that, the stats we look at, the wellness scoop, like, it's so normal to feel overwhelmed. And I think

the thing I notice more and more doing these sorts of things and all the different trainings I've been doing is when you actually check in with somebody like, how are you doing? So often people are like, I'm pretty overwhelmed. I'm pretty stressed. I'm feeling, you know, I'm just struggling a bit. And it's not necessarily anything dramatic. It's just a kind of creeping up of collective stress. Particularly, and I notice a lot, particularly with like people with young children and busy jobs, or supporting kind of parents and as they get older. And you kind of feel like you're just stuck in a state of stress. And then that state of stress is quite addictive.

And I've definitely been there. It's not that you want to be addicted to it. It's just that that's more familiar to you. You don't know how else to function. Sometimes you find that that state of stress means you will get everything done that you need to get done. Exactly. And it's just been so nice. I've done some one-on-ones.

And then, as they said, these group sessions to work with people just to give you like a minute of peace. and make you realize actually there are ways out of that stress and it's yeah it just feels really meaningful and I'm loving it so yeah really enjoying it recommendation wise I think I said last week or week before I had started reading a book called consider yourself kissed maintain I still don't love the title but I really enjoyed the book and I would definitely recommend it but you know what that title could mean for instance consider yourself kissed with breathwork or the power of you know I was thinking of Ella, this is your new role is you just want to help people find their calm and that's so

beautiful. So yeah, maybe you can look at it different ways, that title. I love it. No, I do want to help people find their calm. The book, it's actually interesting in the book, it's about a youngish woman who moved to London from Australia and kind of just like trials and tribulations of life. It's sort of half rom-com and half quite serious messaging, which at moments I found slightly interesting because it feels like quite mismatched at points but it does really work as an overall thing but it's it's sort of the overall premise of this sense of like life moving really fast and suddenly waking up and being like what's my life I'm not happy and I think that's just something that's so extraordinarily easy to happen it's like you get on the train and that you can't

get off we call it sometimes I mean I don't know why we call it this but a midlife crisis you start questioning everything yeah so it's really I really really recommend it whereas It's like title cover, lots of it feels very wrong-com vibes, but there's a nice message underneath it. So I do you recommend that? That's really good. So we've got some book corrects there. We've got our breathwork on Substack

and we've got the new Replus platform. The link will be in the bio. And now we've got our questions from you. So Rosie has first of all said today, I wonder whether you could answer a question. I have about the afternoon slump. More often than not, around 2 or 3 p.m. I'm hit by an overwhelming tides.

I mean, we all are rosy just to the point where I feel I could go to sleep if I close my eyes. I'm a teacher. So whilst I get up early and my days are pretty full on, I go to bed early and I do sleep well. I have a healthy plant-based diet and exercise regularly. I wonder if you have any tips to avoid this slump aside from giving in and having a nap. Yeah, well, I think as Rees said, this is something so many people can relate to that kind of 2, 3, 4 p.m. eyes literally closing mid-task. Rhee, where do you look? Is this something that's just completely normal? Are there things that we can do to help? I'd actually say your breathwork, Ella, could also help with this.

You know, just getting a bit more reinvigoration going on there in terms of just reminding yourself to breathe, opening a window, getting some fresh air. But, nutritionally speaking, you know, this is biology. We naturally do have a dip that time of day. And that's why in some cultures of the world, they always do the siesta. And sadly, we just don't have that here. It's just not a thing. But the intensity of the slump is actually influenced by some things.

And sometimes it might be a bit of a red flag or an alarm bell, something to definitely think about. So the first thing I would definitely say is that your blood glucose levels, while Ellen and I talk about a lot, it is normal for it to go up and for it to go down and for it to fluctuate. But for some people, those extreme ups and those extreme dips can cause you to feel more fatigued and the experience can be worse. So what you just need to make sure you're doing is having, first of all, you're having enough food. Are you having a good breakfast? Are you having a good lunch? Are you having snacks that are the right type of snacks for you? Can you build more of a balance plate?

Can you have more fibre, protein and fats together? Can you get more nuts and schools? You can't take nuts, can you? Can you get more hummus? Can you get more hummus or veg and whole fruits into your diet there? Fiber, I know I go on about it all the time. I hope that I haven't bored you all to death with fibre. but it is still key and it really helps release blood and sugar slowly.

Don't skip lunch or eat too late. Try and keep a circadian rhythm because it's worth remembering that our bodies thrive off routine. I often find that slump time is when it's a good time to kind of have a snack if you're a teacher. And the pupils have just gone home. If you're a prime school teacher, it's like a in the UK we have around at like 3 to 3.30 finish for lower school. That's a good time to have a proper fueling snack before you go on and do the paperwork and the closing down before you leave the school. Do you know what?

It's really interesting, really you said a minute ago about making sure you're eating enough. I am seeing so much of that, which feels inherently so positive on online, on social media and things at the moment, of just noting that like for so many years, I think particularly with women, there was this trend of just very kind of rabbit-y meals, such a focus on a specific weight and just not actually eating enough food to really feel your body properly. and I just think it's a really interesting point and I'm definitely not saying that relates to you, Rosie, but I think it's just something for all of us to be thinking about

is that I think it's really common and as I said, this isn't necessarily relate to you at all, Rosie. Yes, I think it's very normal to have a kind of very light lunch actually for so many women and then you do get that kind of exhaustion because you just don't have the energy that you need and then you crave more kind of sugary foods which is nothing wrong as we said on Monday's episode

with adding them on the top. But actually it would be interesting for so many people, I think, to just look at adding a little bit more kind of whole grains and things like that, healthy fats to your lunch and actually building them up more than you, I think more than lots of people currently do. Yeah. And I think caffeine, if you're someone that's also had loads of caffeine, like we spoke about on Monday's episode with caffeine, we kind of delved into it tiny bit with it being a good food if you're gut health. But actually, it might be a bad thing to be having for those afternoon slumps. because if you've been relying a lot of coffee up until the mid-morning to afternoon, you know, that dip can feel more extreme and natural light can help. I honestly think we're all in the mid-afternoon slump together.

It's just the variables on what you're doing for you and how to tweak it. But alarm bells, Ella, there might be iron deficiency. There might be B-12. Overall low micronutrient intake is something I'm thinking of as well. In fact, it was on the news. It was on the BBC yesterday, I believe, over the weekend. And it said that something like 50 to 60% of women don't realize they're slightly anemic or on the verge of being iron deficient. And most people aren't aware of their iron levels.

Interesting. So, if you were going to try and increase your iron, what would you be thinking about doing? And just making sure, first of all, if you're having lots of beans and pulses and nuts, that's great. But have it with some vitamin C to aid absorption. So things like fruit, plant vegetables, like tomatoes. It can even be, you know, in a bolognaise with beans and pulses, you're getting all that heme iron. If you are a meat eater, having that red meat once a week can be quite beneficial for iron. Dark leafy greens, I don't like to say alone, just increase those because, again, it's really beneficial to have them alongside vitamin C sometimes to aid absorption.

So overall, if you're concerned, go to your doctor that you're very fatigued and get a blood test and they will offer that to you because they can pick up on your eye levels very quickly. You can even get home test kits now that do that. Love it. Okay, our next question comes today from IME, who's asked, is it better to have a hot or cold breakfast in the morning? For example, hot porridge versus overnight oats. And does having a cold breakfast over a hot one slow your metabolism down?

After seeing this on a post on Instagram, it made me feel quite confused. I'd be grateful for your thoughts. Such a good question. Before we go into the ins and outs of hot versus cold breakfast, Rie, can you just give us a 101 and what we're really talking about? about with our metabolism because we do see so much in the world of wellness of like boost your metabolism this slows your metabolism down this enhances your metabolism and so on and so forth what is that actually talking about and how much of that is kind of marketing hype and social media

cut through versus kind of nutritional science a hundred percent I think it's really important because metabolism isn't just how quickly you burn calories and I think that's what people ultimately assume don't they on social media it's linked to weight maintenance it's it's it's you're linked to weight maintenance It's actually more of the continuous kind of chemical reactions that are happening in our body on a cellular level. So it's how we convert the food that passes our mouth and the drinks that we drink into energy. And there's lots of little things. This is something called a Krebs cycle. It involves our mitochondria.

There's ATP production, all these little sciencey words. Essentially, our metabolism is how we breathe. It's, you know, how we break down the energy with catabolism and how we build up. structures and make things from the nutrients we eat that's called anabolism. That's our catabolism. And essentially metabolism is those two parts, catabolism, anabolism, and metabolic rate. And that's what I think people get confused with metabolism by. Gosh, when you say that word a lot, it really does roll off the tongue in a funny way. But your your metabolic rate is the speed at which your body burns calories. That is not just your metabolism. Okay. That's the one thing

I think people go very confused about. Does that make sense, Ella, or have I made it worse? Not at all. I think it's one of those kind of, probably if you were writing a top five points of confusion or misunderstanding in the world of wellness, I think boosting your metabolism would probably be up there because it's pitched as a really simple idea. Like you can eat one thing or drink one thing or make one shift,

for example, warming something up or having it cold. And it would completely change your whole body composition. That's how I think these kind of ideas permeate more on a kind of day-to-day basis. And so it's really helpful to understand like it's just infinitely more complicated than that. It really is. But in terms of hot and cold foods, you know, back to the question that we had, it actually has roots in traditional systems of medicine, which is really beautiful in a way, you know, traditional Chinese medicine,

also Araveda, foods are often described as warming or cooling. So it isn't always about the temperature and the literal. sense, but how foods are believed to affect the body's balance, digestion and energy. And I have to say sometimes when I'm feeling a bit run down, there's something about a warming soup, isn't there, or a bowl of porridge, or something that's encouraged to start your day because they're thought to be gentler on the digestion. And it does make a lot of common sense, Ella, because if we cook a food, it is easier to break down. And when you're feeling poorly, you don't really want to be eating a raw, crunchy salad. Do you want to have a lovely, warm, cooked meal? But does it affect

your metabolism? No, no. I think that that's really important. As I said, you know, metabolism isn't impacted by the temperature of your food at all because it is how you break down food in general and how your body then converts that into energy. What this may also have come from, the confusion, I think, is something called the thermic effect of food, which I actually remember talking with you about Ella, years and years ago. And that is, you know, how much energy it takes to break down a protein, a fibre or a fat. you know, rather than whether your food is physically hot or physically cold. So you can see where all this underlying confusion comes from. There is always an underlying element of something like the word thermic. People may have confused with being hot or cold. Where temperature does play a role in digestion, though, is just if you have a sensitive gut, you know, like I said about how foods are cooked and how they're broken down in advance. So there is some common sense in that sense.

Okay. It's incredibly helpful. But yeah, I feel like this is, as I said, you often see it. This will boost your metabolism and it makes it feel like if you eat this, it will make you skinnier. If I'm kind of completely honest, that's definitely the cut through I see. And it's really helpful to understand actually. It's more nuanced and more complicated than that. And it's more multifactorial.

Yeah, exactly. It really, really is. You know, just have a think about enjoying your food more than worrying about whether it's hot or cold. But if you're feeling a bit run down, definitely you can't go. wrong for a nice hot meal. Absolutely. Okay, when we come back after our ad break, we're going to be talking about nutritional yeast. We're going to be talking about B12. We're going to be talking about pairing foods and all sorts of other things. So we'll see you in one second. Local news is in decline across Canada. And this is bad news for all of us. With less local news,

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It's one of the lowest figures in the world, and I couldn't ignore it. So we've spent years obsessing over protein and other trends, and I'm delighted to share that after a year in the making, my new book, The Fiber Formula, is available to purchase. I have answered every question from gut health and energy, cancers and heart disease to aging skin longevity, and even microplastics. Built on over a decade of clinical research, it gives you my fibre formula, 30 grams of fiber a day, 30 different plants a week, 30 choose and 30 minute meals, plus 60 delicious minimally processed recipes to make it doable.

I've done the hard work so the protein fiber and plant points are all laid out for you. So the fiber formula is out now everyone. If you head to the link in the show notes, you can purchase it from any bookstore or any. Amazon and I'd love to hear your feedback. Let me know how you get on. Okay, welcome back. So our next question is from Georgina. Georgina has said, I've heard that nutritional yeast is good to add, especially as a vegetarian or vegan to the diet as a source of vitamin B12, zinc and folic acid. However, I'd love to hear your opinions on this. Is it worthwhile and are there any downsides? Thanks so much. I love the pod. What a nice question. Rie, will you kick this off for us in terms of

nutritional yeast. Yeah, 100%. It's especially useful for people. It's true on plant-based diets, but nutritional use is a deactivated yeast and that's important to remember. So naturally, while it does contain proteins and B vitamins and minerals, the key point here is that vitamin B12 is not naturally present in reliable amounts unless it has again been fortified. So when people refer to it as a source of B12, they usually talk about the fortified version of nutritional yeast. I, would be going for that if I were vegan, to be honest. I would be probably getting fortified nutritional yeast. You can't rely on the natural source. And especially when it comes to zinc and folate, unless it's fortified again, it's definitely not a source. But, you know, they are

present, but again, in amounts that are just small. And when you look at claims you can put on packets just to give you all an idea, you've got to meet a certain amount of a nutrient before you can call it a source of something or high in something. And that's really important, isn't Ella, to distinguish. Yes, exactly. There's certain thresholds that let you say high in something and other thresholds that let you say a source of. So that's really important. I think my general take on this as well is that ultimately, if you are having a predominantly, not necessarily even exclusively, predominantly plant-based diet, it's just easier and more reliable to use a B12 supplement. Because I mean, you're going to have to eat a lot of nutritional yeast, fortified or not, to make sure you're

meeting the right amounts. And B12 is so incredibly important. It's critical for nerve function, red blood cell formulation, energy metabolism, so we just talked about. And a deficiency in B12 is really serious. So you just don't want a deficiency in B12. So I personally feel quite strongly that a supplement is definitely the way to go. And you just can't reliably rely on something. like nutritional yeast. 100%. I actually really enjoy nutritional yeast

and I used it in the fibre formula for some of the popcorn and I think it tastes delicious as a lovely kind of cheesy alternative and flavour. If you do see it in recipes like re-saying, make sure you're using nutritional yeast.

I remember early on in some of my books having nutritional yeast and someone using real yeast and obviously then if you're suddenly got two tablespoons of real yeast in something, that's not great.

So yeah, it's deactivation. as reset, which is completely different. Also the taste. So yeah, that is a very good one, Ella. Thank you for adding that one on the end. Always read your labels on your packets. Now, our next question is from Natalie. And Natalie has said, firstly,

I just wanted to say how much I love the podcast. Oh, it's really helped me with staying motivated to make good decisions with my diet. You're both doing a great job. Thank you, Natalie. My question is about pairing foods together. I've heard before that eating tomatoes and avocados together can be beneficial. Is there any truth to this?

And are there any other foods that would be useful to pair together? This to me feels a little bit like the energy metabolism question, which is something I feel like I have just seen this on social media for such a long time. And you'll have loads of thoughts on this. But it seems like there's one where actually, as we just talked about with iron absorption, for example, adding vitamin C can really help that. And then there's other things where it's a little bit more. more idea versus reality in terms of what you can and can't eat together.

100%. I think you're right. There were many trends circulating with Gwynif Paltrow back in the day. And I think more recently, glucose trends about pairing foods together. And they create this sort of false ideal of how one should eat. And of course, we all know that the best way to eat is what works for you and means you can actually enjoy your food and support how we absorb nutrients. There's a lot of science behind some areas.

Like you said, tomatoes and avocado, of course, because tomatoes contain an antioxidant called lycopene. Interestingly, lycopene is also research for protection against sun damage. I'm not saying replace sun cream. I'm just saying it's one of those rare, strange, scientific correlations. But lycopene is better absorbed in our body when eaten with fat. So pairing avocado or olive oil in your delicious summer salad you have coming up with your tomatoes is a really good idea. And then, of course, we mentioned earlier with iron and how to increase your iron levels that vitamin C plus plant-based iron like peppers, lentils, help to improve the absorption as well. And, you know, you don't want to have a cup of English breakfast tea with your source of iron because the tannins can prevent the absorption of iron.

So there is science when it comes to food pairing that enable us to absorb our food more effectively. But when it comes to glucose levels, this is when it's more about the right types of food rather than specific pairing of types of foods in isolation. So if you're going to have a carbohydrate, you want to make sure it contains a lot of fibre to slow the release of sugars in your bloodstream, the natural glucose sugars, or with some extra nut butter, some protein on top and healthy fats to slow the release to keep your energy level stable. Yeah, I think that's so incredibly helpful. One of the other pairings you often hear about as well, Rhea, is on a plant-based diet, the number of amino acids and something are needing to put things together. Will you just add on to that? I love that you brought that up because guidance has actually changed on that.

We know now with plant-based diets, some people, there's a myth you can't get enough protein, first of all, and that some plant foods only contain a certain amount of amino acids. Now, actually, some of them can contain all of them just in different quantities and really good examples or there's things like chemo. But in order to get maximum benefits from your food, is pairing things like rice and beans. It's a classic example. It's a carb.

It's a protein and a fibre. But they have different amino acids that the other will lack. So the beans will have an amino acid rice doesn't have. And the rice will have the one the beans don't have. Put them together. It's a match made in heaven. It's like having nut, butter and a oat cake together. So really, for those that are plant-based,

it's really important to keep variety high. And I think the guidance has changed on this since I even wrote the science of plant-based nutrition. That encyclopedia, if you are plant-based, that's a good resource for all. But the guidance is just variety over the whole course of the day is far more beneficial when it comes to maximising your protein intake on a plant-based diet.

But I would say that counts for so much of what we've just been talking about with pairing like we were just saying with avocados and tomato. You know, probably almost always when you eat tomatoes, it's like even thinking like a simple bruchetta or something or brusketa sorry to say it wrong you're probably adding olive oil and salt to that you know it's not just a plain tomato so to me it's kind of just enjoy your food you know you don't have to have avocado with tomato you can have olive oil um as you said it's like with the plant-based proteins i mean put peanut butter and toast and you're winning and so it's with anything it's like almost the more abundant it is the more you're going to be ticking all those

boxes as opposed to kind of stressing about it. Completely 100%. It's so, so important. And it actually leads us nicely onto our next question from Karina, who said, firstly, recently you spoke a lot about feeding your gut bugs with fibre. We do talk about that a lot on here. She said, I have been very conscious about upping my fibre intake and increasing the variety of plants I'm eating to 30 plus to nourish my gut.

But I'm also still eating animal products and do feel well nourished when consuming them. From your discussions, I'm unclear whether animal products feed my gut bugs as well or not. What happens when we eat foods like chicken, cheese, Greek yogurt or eggs? Are these foods beneficial for my gut bugs at all? If not, how else does the body absorb nutrients from these foods? Yeah, it's such a good question. I mean, in a nutshell, it's not that they're not good for you, but they don't feed your bacteria because it's plants that feed the gut microbiome.

and for example only plants contain fibre, but that doesn't mean they're bad. They're just doing different jobs. Exactly that, Ella. I mean, ultimately, there's some animal products like kaffir, of course, if it's a fermented animal produce that will contain live bacteria and bacteria that can help feed your microbiome. But most proteins from animal sources and foods like this don't really do much for our gut bugs at all. There's some research on different types of cheeses, of course, as well.

But yeah, I would remember that plants are the key for your gut health and fiber. If you're having animal produce, predominantly beneficial, I would say, for muscle and certain micronutrients. So things like your iodine, your B12, phosphorus, all sorts of things like that can be really useful as well. I mean, in terms of what these foods do offer you, they're rich in nutrients you absorb earlier in the digestive phase that go into your bloodstream in the small intestine, Whereas when we talk about fibre, it goes further down your intestinesides into the large intestine,

and that's what feeds the gut bugs on the short chain fatty acids, if that makes sense. Exactly. So, I mean, I think hopefully it comes across kind of supportive of any diet that you enjoy, but it's just important to get lots of plants and as well. So just making sure you're really prioritising all your sides and things you're serving with those foods, and that's brilliant to have it in that way. but yes you can't get fibre from anything other than plants which is why I think the frustration sits and like really nice here all the time you know the way you're describing your diet probably sits quite nicely within a traditional Mediterranean style diet super well research probably getting loads of veg and that's absolutely fantastic I think our frustration lies in the move towards a kind of very very meat first diet where you really are not feeding your microbiome and that just seems really nuts. And to me, that's just like aesthetics over kind of long-term health because...

Well, it's starving your gut bug. Which you just don't want to do. But what you're describing sounds absolutely brilliant. And it's not that those foods are bad, but they're other than, as you said, read like any fermented dairy. They're not feeding your microbiome, but that's not the only thing that matters in health. Yeah, I completely agree. And it moves us on to our final question from Delaney. She said, I love, love, love the wellness scoop. And when I feel like eating garbage, and being lazy, I just turn on an episode and I'm immediately inspired to whip up a healthy nourishing lunch and feel a thousand percent better. Thank you. Oh, Ella, that's such a lovely message. You are a bright light in a dark and scary world. I read fantasy books and listened to the podcast

to find relief from everything going on. Anyway, you mentioned taking a break between tea and food for proper nutrient absorption. We did. We just touched on that. How long should I wait between matcher and food. This is such a good question and I think it's important before we answer it to say like this is nothing to be kind of scared of a better word. I worry sometimes with all the different things in nutrition and wellness that it feels like you've got to approach your day with an encyclopedia in the back of your pocket and like you must live by a thousand different rules and regulations which just wouldn't be a fun way to live your life. So I think take what we say not so much with a pinch of salt but like with a kind of level of realistic elements to it so that you're not, I don't know, having brunch with your friend and you're like, oh my gosh, no, no, I can't have a cup of tea with breakfast because I've got to space it out.

Because I think that's when, yeah, rules kind of start to replace logic and I'm not saying you're doing that. I just think that's an important preface for this. What do you think, Ray? Oh, no, I completely with you. I do drink green tea with my breakfast most mornings because I just don't have time to space it out. And, you know, tea including matcher does contain those compounds. The polyphenols like tannins that we discussed a moment ago with food pairing, which can slightly reduce the absorption of non-heam iron.

But if that is not a concern for you, then definitely you don't need to be aware of that. So in simple terms, you know, having a tea of a meal could potentially reduce the iron absorption slightly, but you've got plenty of opportunities across the day to then increase that iron status if that is the thing of concern here. So if that is, you probably want to be waiting half. an hour to an hour between tea and maybe then having your breakfast in the office if that's an option for you. But, and this is really important.

I think for most people, I'm just more concerned that you just need to eat a varied balanced diet and the little things like this, just as Ella said, I think they're the overwhelming elements. Unless you are genuinely anemic and you really need to be aware of the timing of your food here, I think they're the elements that we can really spiral with. I totally agree. And again, as you said, obviously, if you're dealing with anemia, that's completely different. Of course, because you're going to be doing really specific things to support your iron or you drink like 47 cups of tea a day.

Then, of course, that might be different too. But I think if you consume a normal amount of tea and a very balanced diet, then you're probably good to kind of be pretty relaxed about it. And as we said, like focus first and foremost on healthy balanced meals. And if you're going to have a little spacing between tea and your meal, amazing. completely agree. So thank you for all of your questions. We as ever just adore them, keep them coming. We are loving the variety actually. And I know that when Ella's looking at the inbox as well, we're going through a few of them. Sometimes they really also inspire us to think more and more about what we can give to the show. So we will be back on Monday with our main Wellness Scoop episode. Yeah, we will. We've got some really good headlines to talk to you about them. So we will see you on Monday, guys. Thank you. you so much for listening. Thank you for being here. And I hope you have a lovely, lovely day.