The Wellness Scoop - Longevity, Collagen & the Perfectionism Trap

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

In this week’s episode, we explore the link between movement, health, and body image—asking whether it’s time to rethink what it means to be fit at any size. From inclusive workout spaces to powerful personal stories, we look at how fitness and longevity go beyond the scales. Green tea is making headlines for its potential brain health benefits in older adults, but what does the science actually say? And how does it stack up against coffee? We break down the latest research, plus what to look for in a good-quality brew. Collagen coffee is the latest beauty-meets-wellness trend—but is it just frothy marketing? We look at what collagen really does, who might benefit, and whether your morning latte is the best delivery method. We also dive into a brilliant piece from Style Magazine in The Times about perfectionism and the pressure to optimise every part of our lives. Is the pursuit of betterment actually stealing your joy? And could “good enough” be the healthiest choice of all? We take a closer look at how to age in the healthiest way possible—breaking down the latest research on healthspan and what we can actually do now to support our long-term wellbeing, from diet to mindset to movement. Plus, Ella shares her New York adventures, Rhiannon talks about oat bars, and we unpack SACN’s latest update on ultra-processed foods—why not all UPFs are created equal, and what this means for plant-based eating. Recommendations this week: Is Maximising’ Your Life Making You Miserable? A great article from Style Magazine in this weekend’s Times Rhi's easy to make oat bars - quick and delicious Book recommendation - I May Be Wrong Live Show Tickets - https://cadoganhall.com/whats-on/the-wellness-scoop-with-ella-mills-and-rhiannon-lambert/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, Martin, let's try one. Remember, big. You got it. The Ford It's a Big Deal event is on. How's that? A little bigger. The Ford It's a Big Deal event. Nice. Now the offer? Lease a 2025 Escape Active all-wheel drive from 198 bi-weekly at 1.99% APR for 36 months with $27.55 down. Wow, that's like $99 a week.

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Or Bermuda has carnaval. Ooh, colorful. You want colorful. Thailand. Lantern Festival. Boom. Book it. Um, how did we get to Thailand from Prague? Oh, right.

Prague. Oh, boy. Choose from a world of destinations, if you can. Air Canada. Nice travels. Welcome to the Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are your hosts. I'm Elamel. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry,

we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. That's why we created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal. cut through the noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal. So hi guys, thank you for bearing with us where we had a week off for the Easter holidays. But happy Easter everyone, welcome back. I hope you all had a lovely long weekend and don't feel even a teensy bit guilty about enjoying chocolate over it.

We were actually meant to have no episode this week and we were going to have two weeks off, but the missing episode seemed to not go down very well with the community. And also honestly, we missed it so much and we had so much to talk about. There was no way we could fit it into one. So here's your bonus.

Yeah, exactly. Honestly, we were inundated with messages and we are here for you. We were also voted this week as one of the top five podcasts in the UK by The Independent Ella. It was mega. It's so cool. I mean, it's this idea that we had for the show just feels like it's really taking root and we're so, so grateful for all of your support. And we also had our first interview together and it was the cover of The Telegraph weekend, which was pretty cool. So if you're not in the UK of The Telegraph weekend, which was pretty cool.

So if you're not in the UK, The Telegraph is one of our biggest papers and we had an amazing feature in it just talking a little bit about the madness of the wellness world and how to cut through all the noise, which was so exciting. And the final thing before we get into the show, it's just a reminder, tickets are still flying for our Wellness Scoop Live on the 14th of June. We've sold over 60% of them now, way over 500 tickets. So if you want to come and you want to get your ticket, please do it now. It's going to be amazing and we'll put all the details in the show notes. And the venue itself, the seating, just so everybody knows,

because it's such a beautiful venue, you get a very clear view because all the seats are raised. So it doesn't matter if you're at the front or you're near the back, because you will be able to see everything and there's screens, isn't there? So hopefully, honestly, this is going to be epic. Yeah, it really will. We're so excited.

And we're just absolutely loving everything Wellness Scoop. So please do review it, share it, pop it on your socials, spread the word, because both of us would love to dedicate more and more time to it. And the bigger it gets, the more we can do that. Yeah, I think it's going to have to become almost like, not just something we do for fun every week, but to that point, I've been reading all of your Spotify

reviews, the ones on Apple. And I think it's an overall yes, Ella, to Substack, because it seems to be a really nice, unintimidating platform. To me, the reason I like Substack is it feels much more like original social media, which is a way of bringing people with shared interests together to get useful information that's entertaining and nice to consume, not kind of just really dry, but when I say useful.

But I think it cuts through the noise in the way that social media platforms are so algorithm driven now and they become so clickbaity and and so extreme it's almost a kind of satirical paradox the whole thing when you open it up it just feels madness. Whereas when I open sub stack I've got thought-provoking or deeply researched pieces that are five minute reads or so and they give me information or as I said yeah they become thought-provoking on topics I'm interested in. And I feel that's what we're trying to do here, isn't it? We're trying to share genuinely useful information, cut through the noise, give people inspiration, empowerment.

And I just think that's really hard to do on social media now. I agree. I completely agree. So if we get past the live show, do get your tickets, then we will get you all up on Substack. Let's try and have a way we can bring everybody together in a really nice, safe space. And talking of bringing people together as well, so many amazing, lovely listeners in America and Canada actually commented on Ella's feedback and things about portion sizes in the States. And they said, yeah, there's some nice places you can eat there too. But the general consensus is they are much bigger than in Europe.

Portion sizes are so much bigger and they just have ingredients in their food that we don't have in Europe. And so you have the same thing like I saw some comparisons yesterday between Cadbury's cream eggs, for example, in the UK versus the US. And they have, for example, food dyes that aren't allowed in Europe and have to carry health warnings here in theirs, whereas we're using paprika extract for the colour. Or they've got things like high fructose corn syrup in their ketchup, etc., that we're not using here. So it is, I really noticed that. It's very interesting. It's a different ballgame. I was up till very late editing the book, as you know,

with the US queries coming in for the book. So any US listeners, obviously, it's going to be in America. But it was so interesting the changes I have to make from a UK version with nutrition to a US version and all the extra things that I'd never heard of apparently coconut aminos is a thing in America right now. It's not a thing here in the UK and all these different things but I digress. And there's one comment that I think I really wanted to read out from Helen and Helen thank you for this message She said I love this show so much It's my Monday highlight and also if you've not read it already

Then I'd recommend a book called stolen focus by Johann Harry as it covers the many areas that are affecting our attention And our brain power now and she said it's fascinating. So a new book rec for us. Love it. Thank you Helen We so appreciate that. I love a book rec. I'm currently reading a book called Dose and we've got the author TJ coming up on the Extra Scoop soon and it's all on the same idea like what this screen-filled digital fast-paced modern world what is happening to our brain, chemistry, our focus, our mood as a result it's's fascinating. I desperately need to divorce my phone. So, Rhee, what have we got coming up in today's show? Oh, it's a big one, guys.

We've got collagen coffee. It's trending, but is it worth the hype? So we're going to break this down, what collagen is and whether your morning latte is the best way to get it in. Longevity hacks that actually make a difference from diet to mindset. We're breaking down what it means to age well and stay well. Then can you be really fit at any size?

Now I love this conversation. We're talking about body neutrality, inclusive fitness, and why movement matters more than that number on the scale. Then a topic that I'm so excited to discuss. Can green tea help brain health? Yes, plus the matcha boom that's putting pressure on Japan's supply chain. Are you stuck in the perfectionism trap? So we dive into a brilliant article on maximising your life and ask is striving for your best self actually making you

miserable? Then I've got a little update from SACM which is our Scientific Advisory Council of Nutrition here and it's about ultra processed food so it's an update there. We've got the TikTok wellness trends we had to talk about things like iGymnastics also known as iYoga. Can it really help your vision? Lymphatic drainage massages, what this actually is, what's all this detox things, are they just fluff? Plus Ella's New York recap, yes the oat bar obsession and a brilliant book recommendation from a listener on brain power and attention. And just so you know, guys, we are recording in a new room today and then maybe a tiny bit of background noise, but we really hope it doesn't disrupt your enjoyment of the episode.

Really quickly, what have you been up to this week? I feel like my Easter holiday, sadly, was filled with sickness bugs. But do you know what? The sun was shining and it made such a difference because the kids could nap in the garden. And I also did film some very exciting things for TV. And I've got this Scientific Advisory Council update that I really wanted to share because with the new book, my book The Unprocessed Play, there's lots of things happening constantly in 2025 that I really want to get in the book and I just managed this one because it's going to print this week. So we have an update on the definitions of ultra-processed foods, of course, the fact that finally we're

recognising that this nova category, there's a lot of nuance, you know, there are good ultra-processed foods and not so good ones to have so frequently. We talked about things like baby formula, for example, that's an ultra-processed food and can be extraordinarily life-saving. So a blanket approach can be quite overwhelming. Yeah, because, you know, the committee reiterated the findings they had from 2023 and I think a lot has actually happened in the last two years surrounding this conversation of foods in itself being recognised by scientists that it's actually of concern. And then the big update that I got in the book is about meat alternatives and I think

you'll find this really, really interesting that actually meat alternatives could be the perfect example of the nuance in conversation surrounding processed foods and health. So while it's true that processed meats are not great for you, the plant-based meat alternatives, which are often tarred with the same brush as foods like, you know, hot dogs, cakes, fizzy drinks, despite having a very different nutritional profile, they're actually more beneficial. So we've got data from randomized controlled trials, which is the gold standard of data now that shows for people replacing the processed meat. So if you love your ham sandwiches, you love your burgers when you go to fast food

joints, but if you replace that with a plant based alternative, it can actively reduce your bad cholesterol. So LDL cholesterol, low density lipensity lipoproteins, and body weight. And the exact opposite of findings on a wider ultra-processed food group when taken as a whole. So what I found so interesting about this is I often discuss the hierarchy of the burger. If we take this as an example, you've got the bean burger,

which is the perfect example of an unprocessed, minimally processed, cooked from scratch, fibre protein, delicious. Then you've got the middle ground, which is the meat alternative. Because it's not carcinogenic, it doesn't often contain as much, if any, saturated fat. But what it does have is a lot of salt and often sometimes additives for flavour. But for the general public, for most of us, making a decision, if you just go for that plant burger at, you know what store I mean,

the takeaway fast food chain that everyone goes to, if you make that one switch, you're actively helping your health. And we've got that now concrete in science, that UPF plant-based meats are not bad for you. I think what it's really helpful to illustrate as well is that as humans, I think we have this natural desire for quite binary good or bad, black or white type thinking, and we want to put things in buckets and to your point, like there's a scale here and I think it's important to always remember there's a continuum and you know, there's better choices. But you can also find

a middle ground that works for you and you can move along the continuum. And I think as well, one of the things I often find frustrating is the idea that people who are eating this largely ultra processed diet, not eating huge amount of fiber, fresh fruit and veg, not cooking from scratch a lot, the idea that they are gonna replace like Haribo with an apple is just mad. That's never gonna happen.

You've got to move along a continuum and you've got to make better choices and better choices and best choices. And probably over a period of time, you will start to crave that apple or that bean burger a little bit more. But I think that expecting people to be able to move from one extreme to the other extreme is probably just slightly overly optimistic. It's too much. I couldn't agree with you more, Ella. And something we've said for years in probably just slightly overly optimistic. I couldn't agree with you more Ella. And something we've said for years in the nutrition industry

is reformulation is so essential with the food industry to be able to help the health of nations and optimistically to say, yeah, I'm just going to change my diet overnight just isn't a thing. But if we can change the world we live in of food, we do stand a bit of a chance. So in terms of ultra processed foods, also thinking about things like lab grown meats

are now an actual thing. You know, it doesn't involve harming the animal. Animals can live and they don't have to live in poor conditions because we know that farming in different areas is not the same standards are different. This is a very ethical conversation I'm going into. I'm not going to go too heavy, but we don't know what the future looks like. It could be lab grown meat, it could be meat alternatives, and hopefully more people cooking with beans and pulses. Yes, make those black bean burgers, they taste great. What about you, Ella?

Any updates? I need to hear all about holiday. Oh, yes, freshly back, very jet lagged. I think I managed about three hours of sleep last night, feeling fresh. But it was amazing. We did an event in New York, so we've just launched Delicious Yellow,

oat bars across the whole of the US in Whole Foods, which is such a milestone, such a huge moment, so proud of it. But I had this real, really amazing moment. We arrived at the event and we had goodie bags for the first 50 people. And May, who's my youngest daughter, she's four and a half, she was just so desperate

to get involved and she was packing the goodie bags and then she was going down the line handing them out to everybody. That's adorable. And it was just this amazing moment of just such extreme pride seeing my daughters there, involved in the family business, you know, having these people, so many of whom mentioned that they love the wellness scoop, take the time to come out and say hi, to see our products in store across Whole Foods US. I mean, it was just, it was very full circle. I felt very, very proud. I don't even know what to say. That's just such a huge moment. That's a memory you will

probably have, yeah, your whole entire life. I wish you could bottle it up and put it in one picture. I know me too. No, she was so proud of herself. It was just absolutely amazing. Well done, Mae. I know she's quite something she was so proud of herself, it was just absolutely amazing. Aw, well done, Mae. I know, she's quite something. Have you got any recommendations for us this week? Recommendations, I was trying to think, talking of oat bars, I think one of the recipes

that's just gone viral on my page, it's funny how these things happen, isn't it? I wasn't even meant to, I was thinking, oh, what can I provide for people this week? It's Easter, I'm really busy. And it's like a four ingredient oat bar. It's not even really an oat bar. You just kind of get a baking dish,

you put in the oats, the yogurt, the banana, the nut butter, mix it all together, bake it and that's it. It's had like over two million views already and it's just going up and up. So check that out on the nutrition page if you want something really easy that takes no time because I was at peak capacity with cooking last week. I was just not on it with my kids being poorly.

And I even put a nappy in the washing machine. I was just having one of those weeks, you know, when it's just not good. So we all get them guys, just remember that. And I think a recommendation for me as well, I've got a page here from the book that Ella lent me. So let me just get my phone because I wanted to screenshot the page because I knew I'd lose it in my

bag. Well, Rie gets it out. The book is I May Be Wrong. It's written by a Swedish man who became a forest monk. And it is the best book I have read almost ever. We recommended it probably a month or so ago. And I lent Rie a copy. If you're looking for a bit of wisdom, sage advice, ability to be a bit more present, it's a really enjoyable read as well. It's amazing. This one page resonated with me so much, I thought I have to share this on the wellness group. And I think it's something we all do. One level of the human psyche is very fond of blaming others for everything. For instance, if

my parents had been different, if people at work hadn't been so mean to me, if the politicians could just make better decisions. There's nothing we can do about that. It's a fundamental aspect of our ego, exceedingly natural. And when life gets hard, when we face psychological pressure, pointing fingers is easier and it leaves us less vulnerable. But even if it makes us uncomfortable, it eventually becomes completely necessary to ask ourselves the question,

is there anything I can do right here, right now, to help me feel less awful in this situation? Because the world will keep on turning and no one else and nothing else needs to change to make it easier to be You and me when we feel under pressure sad lonely anxious small and inadequate Those feelings are remarkably often caused by the same thought that we're clinging to and when I was reading that Ella I just thought I question myself sometimes even in my line of work with all of the government could reformulate, you know, all these things. But what do I have the power to do right now? And reading that just made me feel seen, because I think we all question how we were brought up and the difference it makes today.

But we are here now. Yeah, and look, it's a lot like what you talk about, I think, here, in the sense of it's so easy to look for quick fixes. It's so easy to look for silver bullets, like the magic answers, the fairy one that will change everything. And I think that speaks to the same thing. It's much easier to say it's someone else's fault. I can't exercise because of X, Y, or Z.

I can't cook a healthy meal because of X, Y, or Z. I just can't do it. And ultimately, we're the only people that control our lives and so much is out of our hands. But I think I love that passage. But guys, you've got to read it. I may be wrong. It's just phenomenal. It's, but I think I love that passage. But guys, you've got to read it, I may be wrong. It's just phenomenal.

It's been so helpful. I'm nearly finished. And then the final thing was the clinic meeting I had with my team this week. And just a reminder that supervision is essential. Even us registered nutritionists, dieticians, psychologists, we need to speak to somebody to deal with certain cases

when they're complex. It's the same in everyday life. We all need to chat to a friend. We all need to talk it out. That's why we need this community. We desperately need each other. It's the same in everyday life. We all need to chat to a friend. We all need to talk it out. That's why we need this community. We desperately need each other. It's so true. How about you, Ella? Good recommendations, please. OK, I've got to say I've got a really good recommendation.

Yay! I'm backing myself today. I love this recommendation. I think it's going to speak to a lot of us here. So I've given it a little bit of extra time this week. I think probably we have a very female heavy audience. I think probably quite a lot of us could relate to the idea of perfectionism and always trying to kind of self-improve and better ourselves

and just very high expectations and pressure on ourselves to do things kind of quote unquote perfectly. And I then came across this piece in The Style magazine from The Times this weekend and it was called Is Maximizing Your Life Making You Miserable? Now I hadn't heard of the term maximizing before but maximizers basically sit right alongside those perfectionists. It's the idea that you just can't quite ever let good enough be enough which as I said Reece nodding to, I'm nodding to, I think probably quite a lot of you are nodding to. And it's just this essential constant focus on self-improvement, optimization, chasing this imagined sense of wholeness that I think has become very prolific in our

society today. And Maximize is essentially was talking about you always have to have the perfect restaurant recommendation, the perfect matcha latte, the perfect this, it's like good enough, fine, it's just not enough. You feel this pressure to always do it perfectly. And I think what I really wanted to pull out is that this kind of more, more, more mentality, this belief that we're channeling into self-help, wellness, productivity, that there's always a perfect way of doing it. And we've got to do that is making us miserable.

And I just feel like for all of us to reflect on it's really important because we do put a lot of pressure on ourselves but it's not worth it so this stat really stood out. So a 2018 study by York's St. John University found that levels of perfectionism, especially something called socially prescribed perfectionism, so that's the belief that other people expect you to be perfect for you to be accepted, increased by 33% amongst young people between 1989 and 2017. So essentially the time that lots of us grew up. And the researchers are predicting that by 2050, so not too long from now, one in three

people are going to be negatively affected by this pressure and this type of perfectionism. So I just think it's a real wake up call and something for us all to reflect on today to actually just be so much more gentle with ourselves. We do not need to consistently drive to appear flawless, you know, to always be achieving more. It's exhausting, but it's actually harmful. And I think this quote summed it up really well. There's something pretty gluttonous about this endless pursuit of bettering yourself. We're trying to break our personal bias, meditate deeper, go to the best restaurants, all with a more more more mentality. Even downtime becomes stressful. You're trying to unwind when you read something about sleep maxing and suddenly you're falling down a sleep optimization

rabbit hole that advises drinking a magnesium cocktail and taping your mouth shut at bedtime. So you know, I think this is why the show exists in that sense, but it's like, let's just do our best and let our best be more than good enough and just be a lot more gentle on ourselves because the pressure is there, but it's not making us happy. And happiness is a key driver of health. So two thoughts in my head when you were reading out that quote is it's so interesting because obviously

there must be an evolutionary aspect to the human race that wants to keep striving. So we're dealing with an evolutionary adaption of wanting to be the best. But on the flip side, you're dealing with now a media heavy world where you can see everything we never used to see, which I think we'll have to discuss on an extra scoop when we do social media in more depth. But it's just not normal to see everything in such a curated way. It's not healthy and it's not good for us.

And yeah, maximizing. I don't like it. I don't like it, but I'm definitely guilty of it at times as well and feeling like, yeah, putting a lot of pressure on myself and actually it's amazing how different you feel when you release the pressure valve. So guys go release the pressure valve. You are doing more than enough. Yeah, and apparently the article said there's something called satisfying. Satisfying, which is basically just being really satisfied with good enough choices, you know, meaningful decisions rather than optimal ones. It's not like settling and kind of just being really passive

and giving up, but it's allowing yourself to step off a hamster wheel of perfectionism and ask what's right for me right now. It's making my easy oat bars and not feeling you have to make a full on cake. That is exactly what it is. Love it. Okay, the health headlines that matter.

What have we got today, Rhee? Okay, so we have got the first headline and also once I'd written this out to go on the wellness scoop, I saw the same conversation on another major podcast emerging and that was literally the whole podcast was about it. So I thought, oh, I've picked up on something that's not going away here as an article to discuss. Green tea slows and possibly reverses brain aging versus the mainstream podcast situation at the moment with caffeine and aging and your brain because that seems to be absolutely everywhere that discussion. Now a recent study published in MPJ Science of Food investigated the effects of green tea consumption on brain health

and this is in older adults. And the research analyzed data from over 8,700 community dwelling adults and they were aged 65 or older. And they basically assessed their green tea and coffee intake comparing the two alongside brain imaging results. Like how interesting is this? I would just love to see all of this on the screen. Me too.

Blows my mind. And the findings basically indicated a significant association between higher green tea consumption and a reduced presence of cerebral white matter lesions, which are linked to cognitive decline and dementia. So essentially guys, our brain is benefiting from the consumption of green tea. And I think I knew about this for years, there always been a green tea match a drinker and I remember seeing these headlines when we first started out. 2015 green tea is really good for you. However no similar associations were found with coffee. So this does suggest that regular green tea intake may contribute to maintaining brain health and aging populations. And of course we need more research guys. This is in green tea itself

It's not an appeal. It's not on a capsule. That's important to reiterate. That's actually risky and Coffee drinkers there is benefits to having coffee as well, but not for the brain in the same way There is with green tea. I love it because I love green tea So I love any encouragement to drink it but it was specifically drinking three or more glasses of green tea or cups of green tea that were associated with these few illusions, which is just absolutely fascinating. I think my ritual, like you know you said morning rituals and we're going to discuss that, mine every morning is to have my tea pigs green tea and that is my thing and every morning I wake up it's the first thing I actually do is have a cup of green tea and now I feel so much better for doing it and it's got less

caffeine in than coffee as well so for someone like me I just cannot cope with high caffeine. I think it makes me anxious. I feel like I get palpitations. Yeah I have to admit the first thing I do is coffee but then I do a matcha. Yeah. But I probably need to drink more green tea. Rui, give us the overview of why green tea is also so good for us outside of the benefit that it potentially has in brain support. Yeah, no, of course, it's the compound EGCG. I was going to attempt to say it out loud and I've never been able to say it correctly.

Epiglacetiching? You don't need to know. I've always just called it EGCG. I've never actually said that out loud. But it's widely recognised for its science-backed health benefits. And you've got antioxidant properties of course, which are really important for fighting against chronic diseases, heart health benefits. So it lowers your bad cholesterol again, and it reduces the risk of heart disease. So it helps basically improve the function of your blood vessels, which also links to,

of course, reducing the risk of blood costs, all sorts of things there. Now the weight loss link that it is associated with with green tea, you see everywhere in the papers, I think because the clickbait headlines are so strong and everyone wants to hear what can help me lose weight. But actually, I don't think the studies here are great and the claims that are made like it boosts metabolism helps reduce body fat. I think they all need further research and we need to delve deeper there. There's a few, you will find a few if you look up research on weight loss and green tea but mechanisms are really unknown. Brain function, anti-cancer properties, diabetes management, you name it,

improve skin health from the antioxidants and UV damage even. So essentially, I think everybody, if you want caffeine and you don't want a lot of it, green tea is a really good option. Yeah, well a little superfood. And again, when we talk about these like easy to do habits, a cup of green tea is an easy to do habit to fit into your day to day life that has meaningful evidence based health properties. So guys, hot girl walk and green tea maybe this time, which I absolutely love. Now, my mum actually sent me an article from The Guardian on how popular matcha has become, thinking of green tea, and actually just really quickly to reiterate before we go into that as a side note, as we said, all of this research is on green tea,

it's not on the capsules. And it's not a matcha, like matcha's actually ingesting the whole leaf. I would say matcha is better for you and there should be research on matcha. We're going to do an extra scoop covering supplements and things like that, which we'll talk about it, but please don't go out and buy green tea supplements. That will not help you. But green tea to matcha, I cannot include this. So shout out to Camilla for sending it to me.

So as you guys have probably seen, Matcha is having a serious moment. It's moved from a staple of Japanese tea ceremonies into a kind of global wellness favorite. Demand is as a result soaring. I thought you guys might think it was interesting as well. The global Matcha market is projected to grow from $2.8 billion in 2023 to around $5 billion by 2028. And Japan, which is obviously home to the highest quality matcha, is really struggling to keep pace with it apparently. So the country produced just over

4,000 tonnes of matcha in 2023, which was almost three times what it had been producing in 2010. Exports have quadrupled over the past decade and the US alone accounts for nearly 60% of Japan's matcha exports. They're not going to be thrilled about Trump's tariffs. Yeah, so maybe that will affect it all but matcha is booming. And what's so interesting about matcha is the leaf, the way it's grown in Japan, the reason this will be actually difficult for them to produce more is because it's an immature leaf. So that's why it's more green. It contains more chlorophyll, contains more of these amazing antioxidants and it's grown part and. So that's why it's more green. It contains more chlorophyll, it contains more of these amazing antioxidants and it's growing part in shades.

It's almost like that thrive and survive mechanism in nature where because it's trying to get up to the sunlight, it's producing more of those amazing antioxidant properties that you digest. So, I mean, I find it amazing because I've obviously been drinking Matcha since day dot years ago and now suddenly it's having this moment.

I am loving it. Bring it on.'s having this moment. I am loving it. Bring it on. Yeah, me too. I am quite obsessed. I feel like a real cliche these days. So Ella, headline number two we've got, I think is really, really sensitive and important. It is sensitive and important.

And the headline is, let's say it's very, very clickbaity. We did not write this just when I read it out, so just to really clarify that. But we thought it was an important thing to talk about. So the article, it was from The Guardian actually again, it was called Plot Twist, I'm Still a Fat Person. And it explores the lives of individuals who defy the stereotype that fitness and larger bodies are mutually exclusive, which is why we thought it was such an important thing to talk about this idea of being fit at any size, which I think is absolutely imperative.

I think what was really nice is we've spoken a lot about how important it is to exercise for all of our mental well-being and our heart health, etc. and trying to remove the need to exercise from looking a certain way and actually exercise for enjoyment and because it gives us that energy and makes us feel better. And I think this article was speaking to that in a really empowering way. So it was just talking about basically how people in plus-sized bodies are really embracing movement for joy and strength and some big communities that are forming around that. Really focusing on exercise for mental well-being and not weight loss. And to me, that's such an important point because I think just too often,

this too is so connected to people say, I'm going to exercise to look a certain way this summer, which ultimately as well, I believe very passionately that for habits to be sustainable, they have to have a meaningful why. If all you care about is your kind of bikini bod when you go on holiday this summer, I just don't think you're gonna find the motivation to keep moving your body. That will wane when you're tired, when you're overwhelmed, when you're stressed. Whereas for most of us, to exercise

so that we don't have sore backs, or we have more energy, or we- We want to age well. Totally. We just wanna feel better. We feel less anxious. We feel happier. We feel more balanced.

We feel less snappy. Those are the reasons for me, certainly, that I'm motivated to exercise regularly because I want to be a better wife, a better mom, a more stable human being. Yeah, it's funny, this headline came up because I'd literally posted on my socials. I was so sleep deprived, had no sleep, and I made it to a workout. I nearly cancelled it because I had my son with me. But my PT said, and I'm so lucky to have a PT guy, I go once a week, I know it's a privilege and it's something I feel very blessed in my life to have.

But he said, bring your son with you. And I want my son to see me as a woman being fit and healthy. But one of the comments underneath from someone says, but it's all right for you. Anyone that's in a size 14 plus body, they need to be doing more. And that's essentially what this comment said. And I thought, no, this is not the message. And that's essentially what this comment said. And I thought, no,

this is not the message. And that's why this headline is so important. And I think Tali Rye is a good recommendation for anyone that wants to look at fitness of all sizes and shapes. She's been on a journey herself from doing, I think, like competitions and things, you know, there's body competitions where people have to be like really, really, like shredded on the stage, like really toxic. And she now embraces being in a larger body and she speaks openly about it. But the article's message, guys, is supported by scientific research too, which is so good. And it shows that physical activity can significantly improve health outcomes, cardiovascular fitness, your insulin sensitivity, your mental health, all aside from weight loss.

And the studies in exercise science and public health confirm that fit but fat, which is the phrase they use, individuals have a lower mortality risk than those that are sedentary of a lower weight. So you can be smaller and not move much and have more risk of dying than someone that's in a larger body that moves a lot. Yeah, look, it's a great message. And I think what it does as well is just shows this need to kind of slightly disentangle health and wellness

and aesthetics because they're two totally different things and too often, you know, we see the kind of Pilates workouts on Instagram and they're all about looking a certain way and exercise is not just about that. So I think it was a phenomenal reminder. And commenting on a woman's size and shape and even the comment I had about, you know, a size 14. Well, actually a size 14 is different

in every blummin' shop you go into. I mean, how do you even navigate sizes and shapes anymore as a woman is an absolute minefield. And there's so many amazing people now in all shapes and sizes. I just wish we could move away from judging people on how they look like that. I totally agree, in every sense of the word.

And guys, drink some green tea, exercise to feel good. Stop putting so much pressure on yourself. This is a really feel good episode. I think when we were looking at it, there's not many awful headlines this week. No, it's just be kind to yourselves and look after your body because you deserve it as opposed to because you're trying to emulate someone on Instagram. Right. Headline three.

We talked about this study two weeks ago, but there's been so much follow up on it. We wanted to give you guys some follow up too. So we talked about this new study that had come out in Nature Medicine which highlighted that just shy of 10% of people in the UK are now reaching the age of 70 without chronic disease or impairments. And while there was no kind of one-size-fits-all diet, adopting very plant-rich eating patterns with moderate amounts of lean animal protein significantly enhance the likelihood of this healthy aging, which unfortunately, nine in 10 of us are now not having the privilege of getting to that point. And there's been so much follow-up press, unsurprisingly, for example, The Times, they ran a piece under the headline,

What to Eat to be one of the healthy elite at 70. And we just thought it'd be helpful to talk a little bit more about what that diet looked like. So those individuals in the research, they were adhering to a diet rich in fruit, veg, whole grains, nuts, legumes, and healthy fats, and minimizing ultra processed foods, salt, sugar. But with Rhee here, we just thought it's a great opportunity to give you a bit more

of a deep dive into like, what can you eat? What could a week look like? Exactly, and I think plant-based is such a confused term, isn't it, for so many people. And when I wrote my book, The Science of Plant-Based Nutrition last summer, I think the really confusing thing the media just couldn't get their head around when I released this encyclopedia was, but this is a vegan book. I was like, no, this isn't a vegan book. This is literally just about adding more plants into your diet.

So you can still have meat, fish, dairy, whatever you want to consume in your diet, but just have it in smaller amounts and make plants the hero. So to reduce, well, to reduce the risk of poor elements as you age, it's about having an anti-inflammatory diet. And that's also something that's thrown. Tell us what that means, because that's a term, term again that people see a lot is anti-inflammatory. It comes across as quite vague but actually it's incredibly important. And do you know why it's vague? Because the scientific research we've got for studies on this really

centers around certain key components of a diet like Omega-3s for instance are researched and known to be anti-inflammatory. So what we don't want in our body is a chronic state of raised inflammation, which is your immune system's response to a threat. So you don't want your body to constantly be thinking, oh my goodness, I need always white blood cells, I need constant support to fight off illness. And sadly, when we are not eating well, that's what happens to our body. We're not supporting our immune system, we're not supporting our gut health and we're chronically stressed or we're drinking, we're smoking, we're not going to sleep and we're raising levels of inflammation through lifestyle factors just as much

as other areas. So diet has you know antioxidants, things that can fight free radicals and all sorts of things but in terms of reducing our immune system's response, diet alone can't just switch that on. But over a long period of time, if you get a lot of healthy fats, if you get a lot of plants, this is why plants are powerful. They have those vitamins, those minerals,

the antioxidants, the fiber, all the components that support the immune system. That is anti-inflammatory. However, I'm not saying if you eat a piece of sugar, it's going to suddenly make your immune response flare up. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying chronically, which means over a long period of time, which is why ultra processed foods and diets that are high in salt,

fat, sugar, additives over a long period of time can cause inflammation. But the scientific studies we have which I remember researching for the science of nutrition the first nutrition encyclopedia I wrote really surrounds healthy fats because scientists is very hard to study anti-inflammatory Diets and markers like often they're using CRP. They're using various markers to measure this So I'm hoping that kind of makes sense to everybody that it's getting a lot of healthy fats and it's getting a lot of plants which help support your immune system. And what kind of healthy fats are we talking about here? Omega-3s. It's always nearly always about these healthy alfa-linoic acids that you get in plants which are called ALA. They're really powerful but they take so long to convert

in the body to the actual DHA and EHA you get from oily fish or animal based foods, which is ironic because let's take salmon, probably the most known fish for being oily. Sadly, with the decline of the oceans, that quantity is going down. And tuna fish used to be a source of omega-3 when I went to university and now it isn't because the declining quality of food. But that oily fish only have their omega-3 because they eat the algae in the sea. So they're basically taking the sea's algae, but it's more bioavailable to us,

meaning we absorb it better from fish. Whereas actually what we could all be doing is just taking the algae directly from the sea, popping it in a capsule, and that would give you the same effect. But for most people in their diets, you need to be getting a lot of these healthy fats. They support our brain. 60% of our brain's fats. I hope I'm not waffling here. I'm just

going on a tangent. You're not waffling. It's so helpful. It's really interesting because omega-3 isn't actually defined in this country. I think it is in Australia, which I used for the encyclopedia because we only say here, have two portions of fish a week, one of which is oily. There's not actually any stringent government advice in this country. In the UK, I'm talking about guys on how much omega-3 to get. And I would go as far as saying most of us aren't getting enough every day. Are there plant-based sauces you can eat or should you just be supplementing?

I'm smiling because obviously walnuts is like the best nut. We're known with the highest concentration. And if anyone listened to our episode a week or two ago, we went walnut crazy. Yeah, walnuts are fantastic. They contain a huge amount, but not all nuts do contain this Omega 3. I'd say walnuts probably the only one that contain a really good source. And then it's things like flaxseed, chia seeds and things that most people probably aren't consuming enough of every day. Avocado has some plant-rich Omega 3. But again, these are expensive food items. probably aren't consuming enough of every day. Avocado has some plant-rich omega-3.

But again, these are expensive food items. So it's a bit of a problem. And I can see omega-3 becoming more of a topic of conversation, probably, I predict, for 2026, 2027. A recommendation I gave before, but to follow it up, the best oil I found, this algae oil, is from Viridian. It's really, really good. It doesn't taste

of anything. It's vegan, Omega 3. It's very, very tolerable. It reminds me I need to be supplementing as well. But you know, it's another thing that's confusing because when there's no guidance on how much, people are like, well, how much should I be supplementing? And I genuinely cannot say because we do not have stringent guidance. Very interesting. So to reach your healthy seventies, what you want to be thinking about is a plant rich diet. It's not about what you do on occasion.

It's not about having some sugar over Easter and enjoying that chocolate, but maybe today make yourself a smoothie, pop some flaxseed in it, a couple of walnuts. Yeah. Have some avocado. Eat loads of fruit and veg and fiber. Basically reduce your animal produce,

up your plants and you can't go wrong. And getting your omega threes. Yes. There's no giving up here, we're talking about adding in. Dip your walnuts in dark chocolate and freeze them to Ree's recommendation because that is delicious. Aren't they so good? So, so good. Okay, trends.

I want to play Ella a trend. I love it when I find these things and I see it right Stop wearing your air pods. It truly is like wearing a mini microwave Centimeters from your brain and everyone should know that putting a microwave on your head is a horrible idea Yes The same frequency in this air pod is the same frequency in a microwave specifically because it's a bioactive frequency 2.4 gigahertz it's the most efficient and effective frequency to heat up your food. So when you have these mini microwaves in your head, it can have the same effect on your brain, tissues and organs.

Anyway, I think you get the picture from what I'd seen. I was like, oh my goodness, I wear earpods. Like every time I do my commute, I think ultimately we can't deny that the industry is booming for tech and all these different sorts of things. But that was an example of complete fear mongering that I'd seen and also do we have any data? And then I also, Ella, on the flip side, have a positive thing to show you. So that's my first negative and I want to flip it with a positive and then we can discuss them for you guys listening. I can't wait to show Ella this. I'm so excited. I made us Barbies!

Oh my God! Look, it's well-escooped Barbies! Oh my gosh, I love that. Remade us well. You guys might have seen there was that AI trend of well, of taking people into Barbies. And we have a matcher in it. Yeah, there's a matcher

and I put some Ella bars in there as well. You've got your... I've got my little degree squirrel. Exactly. So I know that I've had bad experience of AI, obviously, with the AI attack things, but I thought this was a fun example. There's microwaves on your head and then there's making fun Barbies. You could not get more polar opposites.

100%. I totally agree. It's kind of a wild west. Did you get any info on whether or not it's like putting a microwave... I mean, it's not like putting a micro on your head. No, I remember having this discussion years ago with someone called Dr. David Robert Grimes and I think we need to get him on for an extra scoop to go over things like microwaves and tech and if it actually has an impact on our health.

Back then it was no, but that's instilled the, oh, in me and I want to get him on to chat to maybe we'll have to. Let's do an extra scoop. Okay, we will dive into that very soon for you guys. I think we're both personally very interested, but not kind of at the forefront of the latest research on it. Right, Trento, I saw this everywhere, so I was thrilled you put it in the script.

Should you put collagen in your cappuccino? We do have an extra scoop coming out, again, focusing even more on collagen. So we'll get more 101 on that. Were they doing it in America? Was it in coffee houses? Yeah, I noticed, I didn't go anywhere that had it, but I did notice people talking about collagen a lot.

And you guys have probably seen collagen coffee recipes a lot on TikTok and Instagram. I certainly have. And you've got kind of A-listers like Jennifer Aniston popularizing the trend There was one video on Instagram that reshared have been liked more than a million times Where you can see Jennifer Aniston adding a scoop of collagen peptide sprinkle. Is it the real Jennifer Aniston? Yeah Let's just check with AI who knows? Yeah collagen peptide powder from vital proteins

I think which one the kind of original big brands from this space powder from Vital Protein. So I think which one of the kind of original big brands from this space. She's also the brand's chief creative officer and a sprinkling of cinnamon into a mug before pouring her espresso coffee. She's plugging her supplements. Yeah, she's paid to plug it for sure. And that tubs 30 pounds. Online searches for collagen coffee are surging, reportedly doubled in the past month. Joe and the Juice, which is obviously if you guys don't know it's the upmarket chain. It's got more than 70 locations across the UK. You can pay just shy of £10 for collagen infused protein shakes.

£10 for a drink. Yeah, £9.20. Paris Hilton partnered last year with the chain to launch her iconic tonic. I do actually really rate Paris Hilton calling things things like iconic tonic. But that's yeah, strawberries, pineapple, apple, pitaya powder, olive oil, and of course collagen. Wow. People are just putting it in drinks, Slaffright and Santa basically. And so we wanted to bring it to you guys today. Ten pound.

I just wouldn't pay ten pound for a drink. I think the problem is, is you can make a really nourishing smoothie at home for infinitely less than that. And to your point on the Omega 3s, etc. you can be adding, you know, you can buy big packs of flax seeds, hemp seeds, chia seeds. And then when you're using a teaspoon or so in a smoothie, the cost per serve is very, very minimal. Chucking a banana, a bit of nut butter, you know, you're making it at home for 10, 20% of the cost and it's probably better for you. So I think that's the fundamental challenge. What I can't shift out of my head and a bit of a, I guess a kind of trigger warning because I'm going to explain what collagen actually is and that's what I cannot shift out of my

head. When I see a packet of collagen, I know what it is. So I don't want to add it to my smoothies and my drinks. So I'm just going to say it. Say it as it is. OK, so we know collagen is the primary building block of your body's skin. So it's your muscles, bones, tendons, ligaments, and other connective tissues. So where do you think you're getting collagen from?

It will be a pig's ear or tendon in an animal and leftover products of the meat industry that are being ground down into a powder. This is essentially I know it's really distressing to hear it's not nice it's not pleasant but we're very disconnected from where our food comes from especially now in the world of packaged items and I think it's important people realize it's also found in organs blood vessels intestinal lining so please remember that these powders, that's essentially what you're consuming in the powder, just so people know. And I'm not saying that it's not beneficial in terms of getting this extra type

of protein in, but you need to know what it is. Collagen also is important for us because it helps us with wound healing, blood clotting, and nearly a third of the proteins in humans and other mammals are composed already of 28 types of collagen. So from type 1 collagen that's found in the skin to type 2 collagen which is basically in the cartilage in your body but type 1 breaks down faster than your body can replace it from your mid-20s onwards and that's where this discussion of aging I think you know the hype around aging from late 20s onwards people are starting to consume this. So while the scientific evidence supporting collagen powders remains limited, because it is guys, you know, there are some promising studies, but it's still not concrete enough

to say it's better than a what diet can give you or sun cream or not smoking, not drinking. And some people say that marine collagen, so this is the collagen that comes from breaking fish down and grinding fish down into a powder. Basically their skin and their scales is what you're using in art. You know, when I say it out loud, I just don't think people realize

that this is where it's derived from. So the skin and the scales of a fish are ground down into the powder. And potentially this form of marine collagen is more bioavailable and has better absorption, which is what a lot of the companies now are using this marine one. And there are large scale trials evaluating the benefits of oral collagen supplements for skin and hair health, but they're not yet really available and they're not big enough. And somebody called Leng Heng, who's a scientific officer for human nutrition at the European Food Safety

Authority, the EFSA, he said that in the EU there are no health claims for collagen supplements that have got the green light and I think that's really important to remember that we currently don't have anything we can say about it that's backed of science. In the studies that we do have, which there are some promising things, and you'll read people cherry picking this, but you have to remember it's really hard to isolate. Is it the collagen itself that gave these results, or is it the other parts of the lifestyle

these humans are leading that are in these studies? So for instance, a review and analysis of over 19 studies published in the International Journal of Dermatology. This is like the skin gold journal. It had a total of 1,125 participants. And those who used hydrolyzed collagen supplements did see improvements in skin hydration, elasticity and wrinkles compared to a placebo group. So the ingestion of the collagen for 90 days was sufficient.

But it's still unclear whether this was the collagen itself or was it because it also contained hyaluronic acid? It's really hard, this conversation. I think you need to know what collagen is. You need to know why we need it. Yes, of course it could be beneficial, but it doesn't mean it's going to go to your face when you drink it. For sure.

And also those are self-reported, which I think is always just worth taking with just like a small pinch of salt. There's probably nothing harmful to Ree's point. I think it's important to know where it's come from. And I think I'm not a kind of ardent, passionate, ethical plant-based eater if I'm kind of transparent, but equally I think we all have a role to respect the world that we live in and the environment. And I think when you do sometimes look at where these things have come from

it's mildly uncomfortable. I know too much to consume it, do you see what I mean? Like I get it, I'm not bashing anyone with a dust. And I think if we sat here and we just like whizzed up in a smoothie blender, like fish scales and bones and skin, like I don't know how many of us would want to eat that. But then when you put loads of flavourings, et cetera, and these are ultra processed foods because they then do have lots of flavourings, et cetera, added to them. It's just whether it's worth it and whether it's worth all the money. And I think the other thing that I would say, and I say this so passionately

on this part is, is it actually making that drink more delicious for you? Because basically, jury's out. It may mildly improve wrinkles, but I've never met an expert, and we'll do this on the Extra Scoop again, who said that it will help more than a healthy diet, sleep. Does it even blend in coffee? A minimal amount. Like, how do you blend the powder?

Doesn't it like bubble on, you know, like little dots? It's just that, is it worth it? It's expensive, and it's hard to believe your coffee's more delicious for it. And I just think, again, like little dots. It's just, is it worth it? It's expensive and it's hard to believe your coffee's more delicious for it. And I just think again, like, it's so important to think about these habits lasting for your lifetime. And if they're not delicious,

and if they're not affordable and sustainable, I've just skipped it for now. If someone comes back and says it would change everything about your aging, maybe rethink it. But for the moment, I have to say, like, probably save your money and enjoy your drinks in their most delicious form, which is probably not with powder added. Next trend, Ella, we've got i gymnastics and iYoga. Oh my gosh, this is, yeah, mad, isn't it really? But it's quite fascinating.

So it's a viral trend. It's really iGymnastics, popularized on TikTok, of course, but also Reddit. And it sparked debate over whether simple exercises can actually improve vision with creators on TikTok claiming dramatic improvement, such as reducing prescriptions in several weeks. The hashtag hashtag exercises has gained over 650,000 likes. Loads of personal success stories in there. People saying they've even ditched their glasses from their daily routines. I wish. Which is absolutely fascinating.

But there's juries sort of slightly out. I mean, there's a lot of skepticism. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely going to try some. I'm going to have a look and look it up and try some of the exercises. Because I wear contacts every day and I'm definitely going to try some, I'm going to have a look and look it up and try some of the exercises because I wear contacts every day and I'm debating laser eye, I'm going to save up for it, but I'm scared, you know, all these sorts of things that I think, oh, do I do it, do I not do it?

But basically they've said, well, healthy habits like the 2020 rule can help relieve fatigue for your eyes. They don't change the structure of the eye or the element or the need for glasses. So I think it's almost like when that oat zempic, you know our first episode where we tried, was that number one or two? Yeah, number one.

Well, we tried Ella's homemade oat zempic, the very disgusting. It was gross. Yes, it wasn't nice. And people were saying, oh, this is just as good as taking the medication. I think this is a similar kind of scenario here that we've got going on that these viral trends,

you know, may delay the care you need, but sometimes they can cause harm like messing around with your eyes. I'm really funny about my eyes. I just what if you press too hard or what if do you know what I mean? I totally agree. I think it's also one of these things where, again, it's probably relatively harmless. But I think it's the exact same example of these trends that take off because it's probably relatively harmless, but I think it's the exact same example of these trends that take off because it's such wishful thinking. Like what happens if I could spend five minutes doing eye exercises and then I wouldn't need my glasses?

Wouldn't that be a dream? Yeah, and if it was true, it would have been in place many, many decades ago. And I think it also, you know, just to be full circles, we wrapped the episode before we move to this question, to me, it goes back to this, which is why I loved that article at the beginning, from Style, about maximizing and this perfectionism

and this, like, self-optimization treadmill, which, to me, is so problematic, because you could wake up and make a collagen coffee, then you could do your eye exercises, and you could kind of keep going on this train of extra things to do every day, a bigger tick list. And to your point, where do you stop? And next week we're going to talk a little bit about morning routines and kind of what they're looking like now because it's very interesting. But it is, it's where do you stop? When is enough enough?

And I just think if you feel great doing your eye exercises, like crack on with it. I mean, next we'll have knee exercises. You know what I mean? Like where do we, yeah. Baby toe exercises. Yeah, baby toe exercises. How do you even move your baby toe?

Try it. Can you do it? It's really hard to, you can't move it on its own. Oh, maybe have a strong baby toe. But yeah, I just think we all need to get off this self-optimization train. We all want to feel good in our bodies and our minds and our lives and ourselves. And that's a, I would say, a healthy pursuit.

But I think it's important for us all to look in the mirror and say, what's good enough for me? What makes me feel like a good version of myself? I can follow the things that I want to do. I can show up in the way I want to show up, I have a stable outlook, I feel positive in my body. But it doesn't need to be perfect, and you don't need to be perfect, and none of us are perfect. I'm not perfect, Ria's not perfect, she doesn't mind me saying. And I just think it's, yeah, to me I think that's my closing message today, is get off the self-optimization train. It's

a never-ending hamster wheel. If you go down this road, you will never be enough. There will always be more to do. And instead think about like, what do I actually need to do to feel good in myself? And chances are it's going to be boring things like going for a walk with your friend, which isn't boring. It's a lovely thing to do, but it's not, it's not jazz hands. That's something that I literally haven't done in ages. You know, go for a walk with a friend. Like before kids, I used to do that stuff. And it goes to show they're the things that really enhance your life.

Totally. Exercise, nature, connection, lack of loneliness. We'll move the dial on your health infinitely more than collagen in your coffee. What a closing statement. Ella, let's move on to our listener question to end the episode today. And guys, I'm loving your questions. Honestly, they give us such inspiration for the next episode. We read every single one and we're not just saying that, we do read every single one. We had a question here on lymphatic massages. Okay, so the question was, thank you you so much I'm loving your show I feel

so empowered and inspired every week with my little habits which we love to hear. I have a question I keep seeing online people talking about lymphatic draining massages for detox do they really work should I be doing them? Do you do lymphatic massages Ella? Okay so I'm actually quite obsessed with them and I say that with total knowledge of the idea that you could have a simple detox, make a, when you have your liver detoxing you all the time, like I don't do it for that reason,

I haven't drunk that Kool-Aid. For me, I'm very busy, surprise, surprise, lots going on between work and kids, find it very difficult to switch off, very difficult to manage stress and not be in that kind of consistent fight or flight mode. And I think I recommended a while ago an app called Ruby, which is like an at home treatment, and they have them on there. And I just find it the most relaxing thing in the world. And I feel I just sleep so well

afterwards. And it's just like my ultimate treat. And so personally I do it because I find it extraordinarily relaxing and I think you know, there's lots of people talking online about lymphatic draining massage, which is basically like rhythmic like what's about to say stroking and then I thought maybe that sounds weird but kind of to move fluid around your body and it's believed to help it improve circulation, reduce swelling. You see a lot of things on the internet of like removing bloating basically and kind of before and after exactly of stomachs, et cetera.

Someone said to me before I got married, I should have a lymphatic massage because they didn't know I was eight weeks pregnant when I got married at the time. But they were like, you should remove the puffiness. And I was like, oh, thanks. Okay. But I have also heard the same and Claire that comes to me,

I've had lymphatic drainage before and she's come over the house and she, I only had it once and I really need to book it again. She said it's your lymph nodes. So you're like under your armpit, your throat area and your collarbone and she, yeah, you're right, it's like a flow, isn't it? They kind of push it all through.

Exactly, and there are some studies to show it can help reduce fluid retention, improve post-surgical healing, decrease pain, inflammation in chronic conditions, could assist with promoting lymph fluid flow, but the claim of kind of core detoxification obviously lands back in. No, that's not true. That's the liver, yeah.

And I think even if your stomach does look much less bloated afterwards, that's not true, that's the liver, yeah. And I think even if your stomach does look much less bloated afterwards, that's obviously temporary because if the next day you go and eat a couple of fast food meals, it's gonna come straight back. So equally, I think one of the things that I would say, and then we've talked about so much, is that stress management is so important for your health and getting your nervous system out of consistent fight

or flight into a parasympathetic state is key. You do not need a lymphatic draining massage to do that. But if it has that impact on you where you feel so calm, absolutely, but I think the idea that it will remove bloat forever, which is I think how it's often positioned. It is, that's the social claim.

Is a bit misleading. And again, you could then waste a lot of money and you'd be having to do it every two days to get that. I had my first, do you remember when after you told me about your ruby app experience then I booked one on the app near me as secret spa and that's the only massage I've had still this year I need to book another massage it's like on my to-do list but that was my first ever stomach massage yeah I'd never had one before and it felt so weird and I think that's what they do in lymphatic drainage. It was part of Clio's treatment and it was such strange feeling

to have someone pushing very lightly on your stomach. But I think it just helps your digestive system. Tosu, there is some evidence there. It's definitely a worthwhile thing, I think would be my summary to explore if you have the resources to do it and if you're doing it to kind of de-stress, relax, support your body and your nervous system. I think if you're doing it to remove bloat forever, which is as I said, I think sometimes how it's pitched, I think it would be a disappointing use of money. So go for it guys. Just try, I mean not for the claims but just to relax and chill.

Yeah, I think it's one of the most relaxing things I've ever done. Amazing. 10 out of 10, recommend it most relaxing things I've ever done. Amazing. 10 out of 10, recommend it. Well, thank you so much. We're gonna read some more. We'll always pick some good listening questions and comments every week, because we are overwhelmed by how many there actually are.

We had lots on palm oil this week as well, and different things that I know we're going to discuss in the live show, because we're gonna be talking about additives to foods. So get your tickets for the Wellness Scoop Live, guys, the 14th of June, and thank you for listening. Thank you for listening we will see you next Monday and as we said at the top please support it promote it review it rate it if you're enjoying it because my goodness me it makes

all the difference in the world.