The Wellness Scoop - Mood-Boosting Diets, Brain Gains and the UPF Debate

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

This week we’re exploring the connection between what you eat and how you feel, from mood-boosting fibre to the foods that help sharpen focus and protect brain health. We unpack new research showing how high-intensity exercise fuels cognitive function and why short, consistent bursts of movement could be one of the best ways to support your mind. We break down the latest ban on "buy one, get one free" junk food deals and what it means for our weekly shop, plus dive into Joe Wicks’ new documentary with Chris van Tulleken, where they expose how easy it is to market ultra-processed foods as healthy. We’re also looking at the growing conversation around rapeseed oil, separating science from social media fearmongering, and sharing simple takeaways to help you protect your attention, eat for your mood, and move in a way that fuels both body and brain. Pre order Rhi's new book, The Fibre Formula: ⁠⁠https://geni.us/TheFibreFormula Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Hulu original series Murdoch Death and the Family dives into secrets, deception, murder, and the fall of a powerful dynasty. Inspired by shocking actual events and drawing from the hit podcast, this series brings the drama to the screen like never before. Starring Academy Award winner Patricia Arquette and Jason Clark. Watch the Hulu original series Murdoch Death in the Family, streaming October 15th on Disney Plus. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person?

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Plus, TalkSpace works with most major insurers, and most insured members have a zero-dollar copay. No insurance? No problem. Now, get $80 off of your first month with promo code space 80 when you go to Talkspace.com. Match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com. Save $80 with code space 80 at Talkspace.com. Welcome to the Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we're here as your host. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rihanna Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, it can be pretty

overwhelming and confusing. And that's why we've created this podcast to cut through that noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal. We have got a very brilliant episode for you guys. just as a FYI, advance warning, coming on Thursday for our Q&As. Now, we have loved having all your questions, queries, comments over the last few months. We are really enjoying those weekly Q&A sessions. What we started to notice, though, is that there were like some topics that we had a huge number of questions on that just seemed to be of particular interest to large cohorts of you.

And so what we thought we would do is actually every now and again, when we're noticing that pattern is we'll bring in an absolute expert guest on one of these. particular topics and do all of your questions, focus on that. And on Thursday, we are doing it on GLP-1, so on the weight-lost drugs on the Azempex, Majaro's, and Weggavis. So we're doing a deep dive into all things, GLP1, weight loss drugs with an amazing expert on Thursday. I can't wait. Me too. I think it's going to be so informative, Ella, and I think with such a lot of noise at the moment in the industry, it's going to be, gosh, hopefully full of actionable advice for our listeners. So it's a really big foodie week this week, guys. We've had some pretty big studies coming

out that we're going to start preparing to explain to you all. Exactly. What's the big one that you've got for us this week, Ray? So the Eat Lancet Commission unveiled a new scientific evaluation called Healthy, Sustainable and Just Food Systems. And this was tied to a conference over in Stockholm. And basically, the last Eat Lancet report came out in 2019. And it gave us what's called the planetary plate. So how to eat. to save the planet essentially. How to eat to save the planet and yourself? So what's the healthiest diet you can follow for both humans and the planet, which I think

was so powerful to show, OK, this is what's in your best interest, but it's also in the best interest, obviously, of everybody else in the world around us. It makes such a difference. I actually referenced the original answer report so much in the science of plant-based nutrition, and now we've got new stats. It could save around 40,000 deaths a day. It's a huge. It's a staggering number.

but my friend and colleague, a registered dietitian, Rosie Martin, was there. So in next week's episode, I'm going to ask her to compile a voice note of her experience from Stockholm and then we could discuss it more. Amazing. I can't way. And that original one that you're talking about, the planetary plate, I think what was so interesting there, and it's something I know we both feel really passionately about, but it gave this really plant-rich, plant-first, plant-forward approach that I just think is so relevant. You know, I'm really not a believer necessarily in people feeling they have to put a label on things.

It's really that dogmatic approach is just not something that's viable for most people. And I think what they were putting forward was, yeah, this much more approachable. Plant rich, plant first, put veg, put beans, put whole grains at the center of your plate. And it's very effective. Yeah, it says things like just have meat three times a week if you're an omnivore and it's just a much more approachable method. But it leads us on, I think, to what's coming up in today's show, Ella, which is a lot of food noise. A lot of food noise. Okay, so coming up in today's show, we have got the surprising link between fibre, mood and mental clarity.

How short, powerful workouts can sharpen your brain. The truth behind England's new junk food ban and what that means for you. Inside Joe Wix's new UPF documentary and why it's sparking such a big debate, particularly online. And simple ways to protect your focus, lift your mood and feel your best, which lets us be. be honest we all need all the time no we absolutely do so what a week we've got guys so ella first of all what have you been up to this week i saw some gorgeous apple juice jars and i was very jealous i am just loving it i've planted my first things in the garden what did you go for okay so you people listening are probably like avid gardeners and and knows so much and i don't know anything

when it comes to gardening i really really don't so i'm going on a gardening course next week with my mum please come over my house and help me because my plants die and i try really hard We're doing a vegetable growing course together next week, the day after this comes out. So I'm so excited for that. So I'll report back. But we planted daffodils ready for the spring, which was really fun. I did it with the girls. And then the children were gifted.

I know we normally do our recommendations on a Thursday, so I'm sneaking in here. But they were gifted this subscription called Mud and Bloom. And it's a monthly subscription and they send you their old nanny sent it to them. When we moved, it wasn't from the company. it's the most amazing thing and it's this box and it's loads of seeds to plant and you can plant them on a window sill you don't need a veg patch or anything

but it gives you both options basically of different plants so flowers but also vegetables and things to plant so we had in that some tulips ahead of next year and some spinach which in three or four weeks hopefully we'll see some sign of

I think the tulips got like a drowning when May watered them so I don't hold out a huge amount of hope and then some potatoes which I think is like the last bit of season Anyway, garlic, red onions. So let's see if I get anything. Yeah, I think you will.

And what's so interesting about things like daffodils, I can't believe we're actually talking about flowers on the podcast. I love it. You just never know where it's going to go. But every year, I don't do anything. Mine just come out every single year around the same time in exactly the same pattern that I planted them. And I don't do anything to maintain them.

So once they're kind of in, they're in. Okay, that's good to know. I think. So everyone can get us crossed for me. They're in the spring. I'll let you know if we do. any daffodils or not. Yeah, 100%. I think it's wonderful. Yeah, do you share your tips because like I said, I have houseplants and then sometimes I think I overwater them or do I underwater them.

There's all sorts of things that I just don't really know what I'm doing. But what I do know is that I feel much more relaxed when I'm around nature. So it's a really good idea to, you can also get those indoor growing kits now. So if anyone doesn't have a garden or they've just got a balcony, you can buy those pots, can you that you grow indoor and you can do your own little herb gardens. Yeah, they're amazing. Love it. Rie, what's your response to be like to the fiber formula? We'll see you announced it last week.

Big moment. It's just crazy. What's really interesting doing a fiber book is I still think it needs way more traction. People are still on their protein hype, which we will discuss. And guys, we're not saying protein isn't important. I know it's so important. Requirements do go up a bit as we age. All those factors, but none of us are deficient in it, yet we are in fiber.

So what I'm hoping with the fiber formula, and thank you to everyone. everybody who's pre-ordered, it means so much. And if we can get more pre-orders, I think it would show people that actually it's a subject the public really want to know more about because it is a bit of a health crisis, actually, a nutrition crisis in this country and something that I think we'll all be speaking a lot more about,

hopefully, in the new year, Ella. But a big thank you to everyone. And it also moves us on nicely, I think, today, to the health headlines that matter. Okay, so our first headline this morning is a sort of, I know, as I said, recommendations normally for Thursday, but this is a longer one,

and it was from The Guardian. But it was just such a good read. It wasn't a headline as such, but more of a dive into a new book. The headline round were exhausted, meant not from doing too much. Peaked my attention, great clickbait. And it was basically this really powerful piece,

and I think we all struggle with so much of what she talked about in there. And I know our audience is very much female heavy, and I think there is a kind of an emphasis on so many women feeling this kind of, not full burnout, but just this constant kind of exhaustion from doing too much and too many different facets of life at once. And what she was talking about was basically attention and distraction about how so many of us are living in this constant state of mental overload. So the author was called Dr. Zalana Montemone and she said essentially, and I think this point is so relevant, our most valuable resource isn't time, it's attention.

And if you could take back control of your attention where your mind is and where you place your mind, so much would change. You just talked a lot about this crisis of distraction where we're all task switching all the time and our attention's pulled in so many different directions and that's what's making us so exhausted. She said, but it's not from doing too much. It's from being everywhere and nowhere all at once. And I think we are doing that, aren't we?

We're like she talked about when she realized it, which was that she kind of congratulated herself and I think she'd done school drop off and she was in the car and she was racing to a meeting and there was a red light. And while she was at the red light, she managed to send an email. And she was like, goodness me, my head's in just so many different places. Or, you know, you're applying to messages while you're in the supermarket queue. You're catching up and work while you're watching TV. And it's essentially this really inefficient, exhausting way to live your life. And we're never fully in one place. And as a result, our brains don't get a chance to rest. Like how many times have you actually watched TV without doing something else?

It's also, I'm just constantly maximizing my time. I feel like at any way, window I possibly have. Commuting to me is work time. You know, I won't just sit and listen to it. I've got too much to do. It's so interesting because I feel like I'm only able to achieve the amount I have on my plate if I work like that, but then I'm not very present, which, but that is why I think in a balance seller, that's why at the weekends or something, I try really hard to be really present in the time off that we have where we don't have to be working. Completely. And I think one of the points that she made, which I really resonated with, is obviously to your point, read, there's like times where that's the case. But I also catch myself on my commute where I use it very much

as like part of the working day, then picking up my phone and doing something else. And I'm half writing a podcast script. But then I'm like, oh my gosh, I said I'd get a bouncy castle for the birthday party. And then I'm so I stopped doing that and I start Googling. And then I make a call. And then I'm like, oh, I'll just quickly check my Instagram feed. Oh, I'll check my DMs. Okay, I'm just going to fire off a WhatsApp to re about something else. Okay, I'll now go back to the podcast script. And I think her point is like that's just exhausting for your brain. Whereas if I had spent 15 minutes without moving doing the podcast script, close my laptop, spent 10 minutes on my admin and not looked at Instagram for any of that time, we would be much less exhausted.

Do you know, I've got a theory. This is again, a evolutionary theory. And people may disagree of me. But I think there's also a natural, depending on what type of personality trait you are or gender you are, drive towards this. I think women being natural multitaskers, especially once you are apparent and you're juggling lots of different hats. I think we naturally lean towards doing this more because it's programmed into us to be multitaskers, to be able to absorb the loads. It's really hard to have an off switch. I'm saying that without judgment, I know that there are some men that are probably fantastic multitaskers, but I would love to know because I do think that some of us are more predisposed to these behaviours as well than others. Me too and what I really took

from it is like if you get a moment to relax say you're watching half an hour of TV at the end of the day in the evening or you're reading a book or you're having a bath or you're doing it's nine o'clock you're doing half an hour whatever for you stop doing something else at the same time as I said like how many times if you watched a show with your phone or how many times if you had a bath and scrolled or you're reading a book and you should keep picking up your phone and I just thought that was really powerful and I liked this quote as well and her point was the difference of like reclaiming things and she said we have to think about it very differently focus is an act of emotional resilience how do we claim our clarity and presence in a world that commodifies our attention how do we

decide what matters and protect it I think it's a really good reminder and I'm going to actively try Ella to be more present on the one task I do and yeah embrace embrace it but I think the point that your brain finds it exhausting is really powerful it is we do feel tired all the time. Sometimes I also feel really nauseous when I look at technology just all the time. It's just not nice. Yeah. And I think the idea that could you have a laser focus on something for 10 minutes,

laser focus on something else for 10 minutes as opposed to trying to do it all at once and therefore finding it exhausting and overwhelming and also probably not doing it as well. This is why I find structuring my day or diarizing each hour segment really helpful. It's probably why we love this podcast so much as well because we literally

get to concentrate on what we're discussing fully with each other for are segmented time each week and it's quite rare people get to do that they're even multitasking yeah you're right this has been a very good headline ella okay so that's just a little niceness for all of us a little reminder to when you get a moment for yourself take it so we're talking about that headline in nature you know you get the benefits of nature if you focus on nature if you focus on modern noises or phones etc you don't get the benefit of nature i think this is the same thing like if you want the benefits of relaxation you've got to focus on your relaxation I

absolutely agree 100% relaxation so important to everybody in even 10 minutes does so much now we're talking about something completely different next yeah ella so it's actually i think it's positive but let's discuss so england bans buy one get one free deals on junk food this is something that's been trying to be pushed free forever so multi-buy promotions you know it would say if you buy this one kit cat jumbo pack you can have another one for free those sorts of things on food and drinks no offence to Kit Katz. I do love the old Kit Kat. But they're now bound in England as part of a wider plan essentially to tackle obesity and make healthy choices easier. As you said, Reid, this has been something that's been in the pipeline for a long time. It's been delayed. One of the oppositions

to it completely understandably is that obviously we've had huge inflation in food prices over the last five years or so. We've had an economic crisis and as a result we've got this cost of living crisis. And that has been one of the big reasons why this didn't come into force earlier because obviously this does make food cheaper because you're getting deals on it. The argument on the flip side is we need to stop making unhealthy food so cheap, so it's so available. But of course, that comes with lots of caveats. We then need to make healthy food much cheaper. So it's not simple. But the headline is that, as you said, as of last week, these multi-bripe promotions, buy one, get one free, et cetera, have been banned. This is going to apply to supermarkets.

larger high street shops, online retailers. Big focus of this is actually childhood obesity as well as overall obesity. It also means, and you've probably seen some of this as well, that it's banned free refill promotions on certain sugary drinks, fizzy drinks, in restaurants and cafes. So you can't have that like all you can eat anymore. Do you know, I don't remember as a child ever seeing that until we did this one big family holiday when I was like 10 to America.

I remember it so clearly, like we'd say for ages and we went to Disney World. And I remember seeing refills for the first time ever. And I was just in awe. I think I was going for it. Like I had a jumbo, like a cup of sparkling drinks or whatever fruity, cherry-flavored, fizzy stuff I could get my hands on. And I have to say, I think the food landscape has just changed so drastically in 30 years. But what they've said is this is just the first step. So what they're going to be doing, it will also be followed by a ban on the advertising of less

healthy food on TV, but this is before 9pm and then a complete ban online from January. So they're kind of phasing it in Ella, step by step. So the government are introducing a new classification system to define which food and drinks are considered unhealthy. Now, this is such a difficult task. I think we've obviously had traffic lights available for a long time, you know, the red green, amber. They're not mandated to be on packs, but they do exist. But there's a lot of problems with those as a classification system. I'm always seeing the best example is a packet of almonds, which, as we talked about,

four, 23 almonds a day, great for you, for your skin, for your health, antioxidants, great protein, fat, all the rest of it. They come up, obviously, with red on them because they are high in fat, whereas sugar-free jelly would come up as green. That would have all green traffic, but obviously sugar-free green jelly is terrible for you.

Yeah. It doesn't have any fibre, it doesn't have any vitamins, there's nothing going for it. And so that's a difficult system. So I don't think there is a perfect, classification system. It would be really interesting to see what they roll out. Yeah. But now it's all the obvious things.

Coca-Cola, fizzy drinks, crisp, sweets, chocolates, ice cream, pastries, cakes. It does include fish fingers, which I thought was interesting, and some pizzas. But otherwise, I think it's pretty straightforward in terms of what it's covering. Yeah, I agree. And Greg Fell, who's the president of the Association of Directors of Public Health, he basically said there still shouldn't be seen there as a silver bullet because it was so long overdue and it just should not have been delayed from 2022. I remember the outrage when it was and he explained more that the multi-buy promotions do not save people money and I think that's what's

really important to remember. He said in fact they encourage them to spend more so they are designed to encourage impulsive purchases and to normalize buying more and more frequently. It really is like a reverse psychology move, isn't it? It is because what you're normally see is not buy one, get one free. what you'll normally see is buy one, get one half price, for example. So you're not saving people money because probably people wouldn't have bought two. But the other one's such a good deal. You feel you should buy it, which I think is very relevant. I mean, those promotions are what brings people into brands. It's what makes brands grow. It's a very important part of any kind of commercial strategy for the year. And they are designed to make you buy more and for the brands not to lose a lot of money. So I think this is absolutely true.

It really is. And you know, a few of the supermarkets are on this already, aren't they? They are. And I'll tell you what, actually, I've been in quite a lot of retailer meetings over the last few months. And I have been in retailing meetings since 2015. You know, when we used to talk to retailers, I'd be there like, guys, we've got an all natural brand. We don't use small suppliers. It's so cool. And people generally be like, yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Like, well done. be it like when a three-year-old does a picture, like, you know, scribbles. I was like, that's sweet. There was obviously a few people, I'm not saying like everyone was discouraging, but it was a general sentiment of like, good for you, you're an anomaly, no one really cares. Whereas what's so interesting now is honestly, that sentiment is so different in a really positive way. So many of the meetings that I have been in recently, there is a health agenda very much at play,

especially in the much, much bigger retailers who hold such a key to the few. future of the public south. It's really being driven as a big internal policy. So that makes me feel so confident. We have all been leaving these meetings, being like, this is really cool. That's so nice. I think that makes such a difference. And obviously, these specific ones are probably based on HFSS, so high fat, salt and sugar, which is probably how they're being classified as options. But before the ban, 20 out of every 100 items sold were classified as unhealthy. And then after it was introduced, the number fell to 19. that does actually work out as 2 million fewer unhealthy products sold every day.

So it's a step in the right direction, as Ella said. A few supermarkets at Tesco Sainsbury's already introduced similar restrictions. And if Ella's in their hearing actively that people just want to change now, I think Ella, everybody is absolutely fed up. And I think even those that are not in these conversations with us now, that aren't privy to these types of conversations, you know, life is really hard. and they are just trying to get by. I would say, you know, they want this.

Nobody wants to be sold unhealthy items. I'm sure they'd rather see buy one, get one free on bananas. Yeah, apples, rice. I think when we're talking about healthy food, it doesn't have to be like on kale. No. You know, like it's on, like, wellness food, and much as kale is delicious.

It can be exactly on these, on potatoes, on apples, on bananas, on rice, on these kind of real staple ingredients, that are whole food. Yeah. So look, I feel, I genuinely feel, we're going to talk about a little bit later and we're talking about Joe Wix's UPF documentary.

There's a lot in the ethos at the moment in the air, the ethos in the air, in the ether. That's what I was trying to say. There is an ether in the air, but you are right. Basically, I feel like something's happening. I feel there is, you know,

we need a tidal wave to turd the tide. It's not. But I do feel like there's ripples, there's currents. There is, as I said, been in this industry a long time and I feel like people used to say, good for you, that's nice.

You've got this engaged online community. You care about health. no one else cares. And I just think that's really different now, which is amazing. Change is happening, everybody. Let's watch this space because we seem to have launched the wellness scuba at the time where things are actually moving. So let's hope it continues that way. And on the subject of moving, the next headline we've got for you is also really positive, but equally for me a bit, oh no, because it says intense exercise is good for the brain scientists find that high intensity workouts offer gains for the mind, not just

just the body because of the production of lactate and that that's from a study. And LMI issue is I just don't think I have time for high intensity exercise. Oh my God, I hate it. Anytime someone's like, do a buffet, I'm like, no, just no, like I'm just going to sit down. I just, it's my nemesis. And so I caveat all of this with like, we're going to go through this. I've read the study. I've read lots of the papers around it and also the headlines. I'm still not going to do it. I hate high intensity. I think I'm the same, to be honest, because we also know the benefits from just walking or just running every now and again in the garden

or whatever it is. So I don't want anybody to panic when they hear this headline. But I think also it's good to see the benefits of exercise. Oh my goodness, it's so good. And obviously when we're talking about the benefits of exercise, it's often about strength, fitness, cardiovascular health, so your heart health. But here the researchers were looking at the brain

and what they found is that intense exercise, so not just the gentle stroll that we and I like, can bring powerful benefits for cognition and mental performance. So participants who took part in these high-intensity sessions, just a few times a week showed really measurable improvements in brain function compared to those who stuck with the moderate exercise. So that meant sharper focus, better memory recall, and a noticeable reduction in mental sluggishness. Because also, I think it's important to remember, though, first of all, is a little caveat. Not everyone has an hour a day to work out. But if this is for

you, and this will be, for a lot of our listeners, Alice, so many people will enjoy this short of, like, short burst, like a structured high intensity session of 15 to 20 minutes because that still has measurable neurological benefits. And I will reiterate you have to do that safely. I think there was a phase like 10 years ago online of hit training being really popular. And actually it was quite dangerous because people weren't watching their form and technique when they were exercising. But a short burst of anything is still better than nothing, guys. Yeah. And I think what was also interesting in this study is like I think lactic acid, which is obviously what we you're looking at here, something that's almost been quite negative.

Like you almost remember it at school when you'd have like stitches or those like heavy, tired feeling after people would be like, oh, because you've got lots of lactic acid going on. And actually these scientists are saying, no, no, no, no, no, it's not a foe. It's not a bad thing. It's your friend, lactic acid. And it's when you're pushing yourself to that high intensity, that lactate, that lactic acid is building up. And actually, it's fueling the brain.

It's triggering an increase in something called brain-derived neurotrophic factor or BDNF. And you can think of that. I'm going to give you a gardening analogy since I'm selling to that these days. But it's like a fertiliser for the brain. It's helping new neurons grow. It's strengthening connections. It's keeping the mind really resilient as we age,

which is obviously so incredibly important. So essentially now we want to fertilise our gut and fertilise our brain. And I think that is a really good take home from today's podcast because movement, I know people use this phrase a lot. Movement can't replace medicine, but it can be preventative. And look at it that way. there's a phrase movement is medicine. I get a bit funny about those. Food is medicine, movement's medicine. It's not, but it should be seen as a form of something we can do to give

to ourselves. And we do need reminders because as we said in the first headline with how much we're multitasking and we're so busy all the time, we just rarely take that moment for ourselves to give ourselves that little burst. So let us know what you're doing, everyone. I would love to know how you fit in short bursts of exercise. I would find that quite motivating. I often I often think I wish I thrived and loved hit workouts because a kind of very regular 15-minute workout would do wonders for me. I just... My friend Jenny, Francis, she works for results with bump part of my friend Lucy's program, RWL, and they do all these sorts of online things, but she loves it. You know, you see some people that are like the Jerusalem bunny ad. That is just

her whole makeup, her genetic personality. I am not like that. So anybody listening, please give us some tips, pop the comments in Spotify. What do you do? Do you do like Levina does squats on the spot or do you do a quick run around outside the block and then come back to your desk? I'd love to know. I keep thinking that I want to get the kids a trampoline for Christmas and then maybe I'll do like 15 minutes of trampolino. It's a good test for your pelvic floor. I will say that because we do a lot of trampolining here and then I realized after two children that even with the pelvic floor exercises it's not quite as good as it used to be. So I need to keep I need to keep working on it. But yet It is really good, although I will say the biggest recorded accidents in A&E are from trampolines.

I know. Just watch them. Everybody, just be careful. If you're getting a trampoline at home, just be safe. I see that on my Instagram feed a lot. What's the one thing you as a doctor, won't let your children do? Yes, that's exactly the one I saw going around, which I think moves us on to what's trending and wellness, Ella. At Desjardin, we speak business. start-up funding and comprehensive game plans. We've mastered made-to-measure growth and expansion

advice, and we can talk your ear-off about transferring your business when the time comes. Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do, business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk, business. We actually have more trends than headlines this week for you. But we want start off with we mentioned it last week came out on monday joe wicks's new documentary which came out on channel four um which is joe wicks licensed to kill uh re you've watched it right yeah yeah us too we watched it on monday it's actually the first tv we've watched since we moved into our new house because we don't have a tv yet but i got off my on my computer anyway so look if you've missed it's a new

channel four documentary with joe wicks who's kind of the uk's most prominent fitness coach but also kind of a big author and health and fitness guru to many people. And Professor Chris Van Tilikan who wrote Ultra Process People, which is a humongous bestseller. And I think really actually was one of the big moments and putting UPFs on the map and getting people in a much wider public sense to think differently about their food. It is really well worth watching. There's obviously a lot of online conversation around it. It's a very interesting watch. They basically set out to create what they dubbed the UK's most dangerous.

health bath. They do it because they want to expose how many potential harmful ingredients are legally allowed on our shelves, how easy it is to market ultra-process products is healthy, and how broken our food system is, basically, in order to push for policy change. They want clearer labeling, they want health warnings, they want tighter regulations, and they kind of guide each other through this, and Chris Van Tullochan talks a lot about what the overconsumption of UPs look like. It's now linked to around 14% of premature deaths in the UK. watches them as they launch this bar to the public. It's limited at one per person and profits go to charity. And the stand is very much designed to kind of look at government responsibility

and regulation, not on personal blame. I think that's important to say. So the reactions to the documentary, what's so interesting is Joe launched the bar, remember I have one in my bag, didn't I? He launched it a week before the documentary came out. And I first want to start by saying how incredibly brave it is for anybody as an individual. We have to remember these are real people here to put themselves in a position where they're talking about something that's immensely controversial. We don't even have an officially recognized classification for UPFs, which makes it incredibly difficult to actionably change. And I think for Joe to stand up there and have the courage, because underneath the message, I mean, we'll discuss perhaps what people didn't

like about it in a minute. But I think underneath the message, he just wants to make a difference. how guided that was in the documentary is variable, but he 100% comes from the sincerity of I just want to help people. So we can't deny that. And I just wanted to state that fact, I think, before we go ahead, wouldn't you agree, Ella, that that is the underlying crux of it? Yeah, I totally agree. And I think, you know, I remember the moment, and it was where we ended up creating our food company from. But I remember the moment when I was in supermarkets. And I had never thought about what was in my food. It just wasn't interesting to me. wasn't relevant to me. And then after I got ill and I changed my diet and started looking at

my nutrition and I started turning over backs of packets and supermarkets and being like, why are there so many emulsifiers, additives, flavourings, etc., in here? I had no idea what I was eating was so ultra-processed essentially and therefore lacking in whole food ingredients. It just hadn't crossed my mind, basically. And I think ultimately that's why we have a fibre crisis It's because our diet's 60% of adults. And in lower economic groups, that can be up to 80% of food consumption can be UPS. And that means we're not eating fiber. And that's why obviously I'm passionate about the fiber book.

You create the products. You create Ella. But I think what happened, essentially, is the nuance wasn't explained at the beginning of the documentary. So there was no kind of overview of, you know, baby formula is a UPF. But, you know, we have to understand also why they're there. I agree. Obviously, I agree. I think we need this regulation and I'm so happy that Joe's made a stand about this. But I have to as a health professional and Chris and Joe would know that. I run a clinic where we see eating disorder cases. We have disabilities and sorts of people that need UPS to survive. And now I've had messages saying I'm really scared to touch my usual fuel fortified product or something that I need that helps me on my medication that I have that week. Is it really bad for me? I'm now scared to touch all products. And I think what happened is because the nuance of UPFs wasn't fully explained by Channel 4, Channel 4 wanted to pitch this very theatrically. And you can see the producer, whoever produced this went for blue lighting, mist and smoke, like a kind of Frankenstein lab.

It's been referred to a lot as like Breaking Bad, you know. Has it? Yeah, that's a few show and they're kind of making crystal math. It's just a shame because it didn't give any, they didn't have a registered profession. or health, pressure, like a nutritious or dietitian to give nuance, which all it needed was someone at the start to say, yes, we have a problem. Yes, we want to see change. But in a kind way, we understand this is privileged. And Joe did refer to his own background a lot because, gosh, he has fought so hard to be where he is now. And no one can deny that. He said he was raised on

UPFs. And that is the situation for so many people in the country. And what we did like, and I discussed with my eating disorder dietitians earlier, was that they weren't framing health based on weight, which was really refreshing because usually in documentary, I don't like calling this a documentary because it wasn't balanced. This was very much used as a stunt to push the government and the side that's been missed

is the care for the public, I think. And Joe even said himself, I don't know if I want to sell this, you know, am I doing the right thing? And I saw a lot of backlash initially, Ella, from health professionals that have got it all wrong. You know, they were saying, oh, he's going to make so much money from this documentary.

First of all, guys, TV does not pay. does not pay well unless you're right probably like i don't know a strictly come dancing presenter or something he won't be paid well for that and then this is going to make so much profit off these bars and actually the bars were for charity and just a bit of a stunt you know well there's only five to 10 000 of them anyway it's like a tiny number yeah what he could have done is created a product just like all the other protein bars on the market filled with the UPFs and he got to sell there and he could have made an extraordinary amount of money and bought an enormous company and then gone on to sell it to Unilever or something. So he forego millions upon millions,

I would argue, in order to do this. And I think that integrity is unusual. And that's so nice to hear because that's the side that most of us don't understand, Ella. And I don't, as for you, with your business hat on, that most people won't realize he will have turned down a profitable opportunity here. If anything, put his reputation on the line. And for me, as a health professional, things that I wouldn't have advised him to say if I've been able to look after after Joe will guide him through this process, I wouldn't have said these ingredients can cause cancer, you know, because actually the link between artificial sweeteners compared to red and processed meat, which we talk about is classified very differently. And there is a much stronger

link for red processed meat with cancer. It's like class one compared to this amount of sweeteners. And the only thing you can really say is excessive diarrhea or bloating or cramping, you know, digestive problems. So it was an interesting choice and formulation, I think. No, I think, I know what you mean there, but I think the point to me with the doing a protein bar, because people are like, why didn't you do sweets? Or like a fizzy drink. Everyone said. No sweets and fizzy drinks are unhealthy. True. You're not, you're not kind of shocking anybody but being like, guys, Harry Bo, not that good for you. Yeah. Yeah, we know. There's nobody who thinks sweets are really healthy. I really don't believe. Whereas I think the problem for me in terms of where the regulation needs to sit is the rest of the supermarket.

And, you know, they're right. They're calling up, for example, like a co-co. cocoa pop type product like cocoa pop bars and like I remember being in I think it was a co-op and they were seeing cocoa bottles and said in the front supporting your family's health and it's because it's got a sprinkle of vitamin D in there and as a result you can make these sorts of claims and I think the point of having a health product that actually in fact wasn't a health product is what's so powerful because it shows the level to which you can create misleading claims and you can have a sprinkle of multivitamin or a sprinkle of vitamin D or something like that and you can make pretty bold claims very large front of pack. And for people to this point, the fact that

we don't have enough education in terms of our food, you're in the supermarket, it's a really well-priced product. It says supporting your family's health. How on earth is somebody meant to know that that's not the best choice for breakfast? Because of pricing, because of education, and the point is you should not legally be allowed to say anything like that. And I think from the food industry perspective, like that's what I feel that he illustrated so effectively. And I think Chris said, we have to think in revolutionary terms, like the UK food and drink industry is worth over £100 billion. It's so unrealistic to think there'll be any change without government intervention. Like, you can't just look at big corporations and expect them to do it.

It's never going to happen, like profits number one for the vast majority of them. And so that voluntary reform from big food is so deeply unlikely. Like, it's all driven by profit, as I said. It's not driven by public health. And so the government have to intervene so that it's driven by public health first and foremost. I mean, do you wonder if this should have just been screened directly to government initially because... No, because government don't change without pressure. Which is true, but the problem with the documentary, this is why it's good we're having a discussion,

because I'm coming at it from health professional hat with care of the public. I'm coming at it from like an industry. From an industry, which I think's good because I want the industry change. I'm with you. I think it's great if it pushes change, but obviously I think it's great what Joe and Chris are doing, but it definitely missed the aspect that not all UPFs are the same. People now are terrified. I only had a message this morning from somebody who works with lots of different disabilities

that said she's now having a hard time to convince people that their usual products are okay and they rely on them so heavily. I mean, look at items like Corn is like a healthy example of a UPF, you know, for so many people. It's just microproteen. Like there's no emulsifiers or whatever. It's just that's what it is. The documentary very much didn't separate that issue. And that's the only way it went wrong was the lack of care, I think,

explaining it to the public in a kind of way. Yeah, and look, UPFs exist also on such a spectrum. They do. Things that we know are really not very good for us and things that actually we don't maybe know enough about but probably aren't that bigger deal. And so we think as well, the kind of black and white nature of the whole UPF

way outside this documentary conversation is also deeply confusing for people when we already have such like horrendous public education when it comes to health and absolutely appalling legislation. and regulation. And so I think when you pour it all into one, it becomes like a quagmire, but I'm not surprised that people are now like, well, what do I eat? I'm so confused. This is expensive. This doesn't taste nice. Like whatever it is. And I think, look, they're doing a second

part. I think the second part has like really actionable advice on how to include more nutritious food, being as cost effective as possible, being as accessible as possible. Please hire a registered health professional to like talk through it as well at the same time. Be balanced because that's also going to help with government action if there's no like solution. The only thing I'd say just to be controversial again. Yeah, go on. Is that I think the problem is, it's like deep nuance doesn't get cut through. No, it doesn't. And ultimately, I keep going back to what Chris Funtler can said in terms of like, you know, basically like we have to be controversial. We have to stir the pot. We have to like blow it up because we have to think in revolutionary terms. Like everyone's tried a nicely nicely

approach, look at what we talked about with the fact that these legislations for buy will get one, half price, etc. should have come in in 2002. It's quite a long time ago. And, you know, it's still like the 9 p.m ads, that bit hasn't come in yet. And it's like, how long is it going to take for change to happen? And so I think this point of like, you're right, there were nuances missed. You're right. 100% other things could have been caveated for sure. But if you had spent the whole show caveating, you wouldn't have had the same level of pickup because you wouldn't have so many people talking about it. But it just needed it at the start. It really needed an introduction to what a UPF actually is, which I don't think was fully explained. And

just to lead on further, I'm all for it. But then where do we stop? If it were me, I'd rather have health label warnings on a pack of pork sausages or, you know, salami packets that had marketed at children and I used to eat those as a kid. Pepperami is in the sticks. You know, that should have a health warning. I love those. Just protein bars. I know that I think I grew up with those in my lunch boxes or, you know, darylunchables. I totally agree. I don't, you can't say you've got to have health warnings on ultra-process food, but you don't have it on sausages. Which is actually classed as a class one. Like, I find it crazy that we don't have warnings on items that are actionably concretely linked with research to an increased risk of bowel cancer.

completely obviously i think it's the whole food industry needs a giant overhaul and you're right this is not the whole of the industry this is a section of it and you know the other thing i would say is you could have not made a protein bar and you could have made a cereal but then you're making primarily maybe mums feel guilty and that's probably worse versus fitness industry you know if you're going to make someone feel not brilliant about their actions oh you know what i mean it's You can't win, and it's really difficult, but what it's done is that it's got people talking in a way that's on a huge scale about our food industry and the fact that, wait a second, okay, I don't like that he said that, but it was kind of true. We don't have much regulation, do we? Ultimately, if we now have a general consensus that there's not enough regulation in our food industry, even if it wasn't perfect, that feels inherently positive to me, although I appreciate things aren't perfect, but they never are. No, I think that's a really good conclusion, is that we have to see change.

It has to come from somewhere. And please stop with personal attacks. So what's been so interesting is rather than seeing the purpose of the documentary, I've seen other health professionals, take it quite personally against Joe, who has ultimately just been advised by Channel 4? He's not a health professional. And Dr. Chris staring along the way that he is very pivotal, and I support Chris with this, we're trying to support change.

So I think we just need to show an element of, wow, they were brave to actually get up and make this documentary. And I hope the conversation Ella and I have just had for everybody listening has shown there are so many sides to this conversation. But ultimately, the underlying messages, if it sparked a conversation, let's hope it can do some good. Exactly. Okay, talking about doing good. We, this one came through for you on fibre. For me. Yeah, for you.

From Catherine, one of our listeners. And she pinged over an article from Vogue. And she said, I feel like this is particularly for you, Ru, and it was basically asking, can eating more fibre actually make you happier, which I just thought we've been talking about the trend of fibre, you're obviously writing all about it in the fibre fix. And I think that's a really interesting angle on it, obviously. Yeah, 100%. Because of course it can. Our diets are so pivotal when it comes to our mental health and so underlooked. It's unbelievable, which again leads us back to this UPF conversation. The fact that it does, I think the UPF, the UPF,

consumption has a massive role to play with the statistic that 96% don't get enough fiber and that we're not hitting 30 grams a day because of the amount of UPFs we're consuming. So ultimately, the SMALs trials led the first research with Mediterranean diet, which is high in fiber, rich in whole foods, supporting our mental health. It was more effective to consume a medical diet in a randomized controlled trial. So gold standard research I'm talking about here, everybody, was more effective to eat well than have therapy for depression and it saw better outcomes. That was back in, I think, around 2019 again. And that sparked a lot of change. We then had the American gut projects supporting the 30

gram a day target. I know Zoe have looked into the research and they've got one of the largest databases in the world of participants that mentioned 30 plants as well. And there was a really interesting cutoff. 30 plants means more fiber because you're getting more fiber in all these plant foods. And if you had under 30 a week, you saw a poorer gut microbiome response to if you had around 30. But if you have more than 30, the results were just the same as if you just had 30. So 30 seems to be this magic number. And I write about this a lot in the fiber formula. And I've gone into all of these sorts of things. But our gut sends signals to our brain, Ella. It's amazing. As you know, we talk about the gut brain access all the time, this two-way communication.

Because the microbes within our gut play such a key role. They increase the production of neurotransmitters like serotonin, which is a happy hormone, dopamine, which is feel good. And they play a role in our mood regulation. So ultimately, while it's hard to measure, it is hard to measure mental health. Like there's so many factors, right? It could just be sunny one morning and I wake up, I feel better. And that in turn, is it causation or observational would cause me, probably, I'd probably eat better on a sunny day. if you look at it like that, you know, I really hope, like I said at the beginning that people

will really start to take it seriously. And if Vogue are doing it and maybe Fiber now means it's got a sexy status. That's what I thought when I saw this email from Catherine. So I had to like, this has got to go in trend section because if it's in Vogue, essentially it's got to be a trend. And Vogue is saying more fibre equals more happiness. And that is a great win to end the episode on, I would say. Yeah. The week that Paris fashion shows there and you've got Vogue talking about fiber in the same segment as Paris Fashion Week. That is absolutely incredible, guys. Thank you for sending us all of your feedback.

It's so, so important. And we've got so much to share, haven't we? We're going to have to move the rest of it to next week. There's too much to do today. We are, re-had a voice note for me and a viral Instagram clip, so I'm going to have to patiently wait to see them next week. But, guys, tune in on Thursday, big deep dive, GLP-1s, all these weight-lost drugs, the 101, keeps sending you on your question.

for those as well if there's anything you want us to add all Q&A questions either Spotify comments Apple comment or to me ella at deliciousiella.com otherwise thanks for listening thanks for being here thanks for sticking with us we love the wellness scoop we love this community have a great day