The Wellness Scoop - Optimism, Immunity and the Truth About Burning Fat

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

This week on The Wellness Scoop, we’re talking about whether optimism can influence immune health, what the science really says about exercising on an empty stomach, and why cabbage is being tipped as 2026’s “it” vegetable. We break down new research linking mindset and immune response, look at the evidence on fasted exercise, fat loss, metabolic health and hormones, and explore the rise of fibre, gut health and fermented foods through the return of cabbage to centre stage. We also dig into the darker side of modern wellness, including the rise of extreme detox trends like blood “cleaning”, and why supporting the body’s natural detox systems remains far more grounded in science. Send your questions for our weekly Q&A to [e-mail]. Order your copy of Ella's new book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quick Wins: Healthy Cooking for Busy Lives⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Pre-order your copy of Rhi's upcoming book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Fibre Formula⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And as always, we're here as your host. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rihanna Navit. And after a decade in this world of wellness, as we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. And that's why we're here on this podcast to cut through all the noise and make it simple, personal and fun. And guys, congratulations.

We have made it through January. It's some people's favorite month. It's not everyone's favorite month. It's producer Will's favorite month we just heard. And I was like, what? I know. It's shocking. It's just, I know it's getting lighter,

but the last, you know, 10 weeks or so are dark. And sorry, I mean dark outside. I don't mean that, but the state of the world is pretty dark. No, the world is dark. It's been dark, but we're getting lighter, so bring it on. Exactly. So, yeah, guys, spring is coming. I guess only if you're in the Northern Hemisphere, but still over here in the UK, it feels like spring is coming. It's so nice getting home from work or school, and sometimes it's not being pitch black anymore, getting up and the light starting to come through.

Just things like I'm really trying to notice the little things, took the dogs for a walk yesterday, and there's just snowdrops everywhere. My daffodils come out in my garden. Have they? I cannot believe it. They survived the frost a few weeks ago and I've got one of them that's about to flower in January. Oh my goodness.

Is that because we've had, I don't know what I'm talking about everyone, but is that because we've had a mild, like, warm climate last year and this winter's not been as cold? I don't know. Although, do you remember I said last, I guess, about five months. This is a proof I do not know what I'm talking about. Five months ago or something. Yes.

I was so excited to have a garden and was, like so enthusiastic about my gardening and I said I've planted daffodils if you're come out if they come out that will be whether or not I've got green fingers no sign no no but maybe maybe mine are just seasoned to be early bloomers and yours are on time I like it really you're very generous to me green fingered people please help us um Ella what do we have coming up on today's show okay talking about um finding the positives in the world um the big headline this week as can optimism and our mindset really influence our immune health. What the science

actually says about burning fat on an empty stomach for all of those headlines around fasted workouts and how that fasted exercise can affect weight loss, hormones and metabolic health. We're going to talk about 2026 It Vegetable guys, which is pretty fun. The growing trend of extreme detox treatments like blood cleaning. No thank you. And why supporting the body's natural detox system beats those shortcuts. Okay, Ella, wow. We have got so much to discuss and so many thoughts, but what have you been up to the past week? Do you know what?

I've had such a nice week. I've been a little bit like producer will leaning into January. I don't know. It's just been taking it quite slow. I feel like I've mastered my sourdough. And it's the brick, let's be honest. Okay. I want to talk about it again, guys.

And I just have to clarify, this is not sponsored. I bought the product. You are welcome to sponsor us, Brick, because I think you're the best thing I've ever bought. Brick, come at us. But this is Tosian Sponsored. Okay, if you missed it, it was a long time ago, sometime last year, my sister-in-law recommended this device called a brick. It's really small. It's just a kind of little square.

And I keep it in. I have a little pouch in my handbag where I keep my wallet and keys and things. So it's like a bright pink pouch so that I don't use it with all those important things. Keep it in that. Basically, you just, you choose what to block. So for me, the thing that I get addicted to is definitely social media. I mean, I said when I came in, read, like, I couldn't sleep last night because I'd actually fallen asleep when I was putting the kids to bed.

So I think I'd had, like, a late nap, basically. I always do that. Totally. Oh, my gosh. Seven o'clock. I've had like 20 minutes, half an hour. It's awful. I woke up at quarter to nine.

Yeah. So then I couldn't get back to sleep. Anyway. So I stayed up really late. But I was reading the newspaper. So, like, sure, I had loads more screen time. But this morning, I'm so informed. Whereas otherwise, I would have just scrubs.

and scroll and scroll and scroll. She is so informed because even on the train, you're like, oh, here's the bit, oh, was that last night you said it? Here's a bit extra for today. Oh yeah, a little bit more of Kea Starmer's thoughts on phone bands. But anyways, I blocked myself from social media because I just, I am such an overthinker,

I'm such an over-worryer, I catastrophes the world. And I have been quite addicted, I think, to the kind of dopamine hit consistently of just tap, tap, tap, scroll, scroll, scroll, anyways. So I've blocked myself from it. I reckon I'm spending like 20 minutes a day on Instagram. I have to say I now found it so dull, like so horrifically dull. The sourdough has taken over.

I don't even want to look at it. I just got all the time for the sourdough. But I have to say what I'm finding is as someone whose brain kind of jumps around that, you know, that kind of theory of like the, you know, a monkey mind bouncing from thing to think. My mind, I think, is naturally inclined to do that. And just cutting those things off has just created. this kind of just slightly more inherent sense of calm because I can't distract myself. And so I do feel like I kind of finished tasks more easily and I don't have that kind of second

train of thoughts running in the background. It's also I feel that social media can be like a heavy headache, almost a dull feeling that you've got and you really notice like I did also some phone free time this weekend longer than usual. In fact, my overall last week time on it was only across my phone in total was five hours. I was quite proud of myself. Like for me and I work a lot off my phone. That's a significant difference. Thanks to you, Ella, and I will now get a brick. But I felt this weekend less headachey.

It also helps I had a bit more sleep. But it makes a huge difference. It really does. It's unbelievable. Anyway, it is genuinely. There's so few things that I've ever bought. I'm like, that is honestly life changing. And I saw my sister-in-law at the weekend and we were talking about it. She was like, it is actually life-changing, isn't it? Everyone's going to go out and buy one now.

Yeah, guys, honestly. Wow. They are phenomenal. We should have got a sponsorship. No, we're here to help. We are very happy to help. So, I mean, social media phones, we're going to talk about it later in this episode. But it is just this kind of constant elephant in the room.

And we're all distracted by it. And always be gentle on yourself with that, which is that they are designed by some of the cleverest people on the planet to be deeply addictive. So the fact that you can't put it down isn't it failing on your part or your willpower. It's the fact that these people, we are employing the cleverest, psychological. and thinkers to make us addicted because that is how the business model works. Because the more time you spend on there, the more adverts you see, the more returns they get. And it is a cynical way of looking at the world, but I'm afraid it's the world that we live in. And so I think, you know, it is ridiculous to need a device to get you of something

that's taking you away from your life. Just like in a way, it's ridiculous that we now need medication to get us outside of a broken food system. But the problem is, is there's so much about the modern world that is slightly broken and so sometimes we do need help. Do you know what I've done on my retrition page? I remember telling you about it last week. I've made one of those kind of like a private group. Yes.

But it doesn't have to be private. You can join it. And it's called Rihanna Unfiltered. I love it. It's a bit cheesy. I'm a big fan. But yeah, I just thought I can literally not have to worry about an algorithm or people seeing what I'm posting on there.

It could be helpful things or updates. And it means I can voice note. to everybody on this page and they can reply to me directly in this one space and I don't lose DMs and I don't lose things and it's there on the page and I quite like it. It's like a kind of separate thing and I think what's so nice is if you have a brick as well, you can then choose when you come on, come off and you can just go to that group. You don't have to scroll and I think that's what it's really brought for me. Anyway, I've only been on it a week. I'll let you know in a few weeks. I'm really joining being part of it. I really recommend joining on Rees page. What else have you

up to? I feel like I've seen you on TV. I've seen a lot. Okay, I have a long list. While I sit at home baking bread. I was saying to you guys earlier, wasn't I, that January as a nutritionist is generically like the busiest month of the whole year. Living out every healthy new year, cliche. There's a thousand press pieces a week for the team and I. The clinic always goes up in terms of bookings every new year, every year. I mean, it's been over a decade of that happening now, so my team are more stretched. But it's a really positive thing because sometimes we can really make a difference. But I was on ITV tonight on the 22nd of January. It was a program about wellness. And I have to say, I was interviewed for two hours and you know how it is, Ella. They cut it down to, what,

five minutes. And I'm really glad they kept in my fiber mentions and all the important things. But I was so disappointed by the way the program started. It felt like an advert for an influences biohacking powders and potions, essentially. Yeah. And it was framed in that way. She's so different to who you are. Yeah. And it started with that with somebody else.

And then I came in later, clearly just giving a bit of grounded advice. And I did say, you know, you can't be a balanced diet. Nothing is going to help more than that. But I felt a twang of, oh, a little bit of disappointment that those kind of powders are given an air time in that way on mainstream TV. And then another exciting thing, though, on a different note, is that I spoke at a panel, M&S, because M&S and a few other brands are bringing a white paper on fiber to Parliament. So they've launched their own paper discussing the boundaries to consumption and what's going on, which is obviously what I talk about in my book, The Fiber Formula, and they've written it all out in their white paper. So I do feel kind of positive.

And there's a Fiber Festival in February that I'm going to be on a panel for that Zoe are hosting. And it feels like a shift, Ella. I feel a shift. I think so too. I genuinely do. And I totally agree. It's very exciting. This is an episode of optimism, guys.

It's an episode of optimism. It's just been very busy. So Ella, should we move on to our headlines that matter? As always, if you're new here, this is the bit of the show. We just break down the biggest health stories that have been making news. So things you might have seen in mainstream media podcasts, social media feed, if you're not bricked out of it. But, Rie, you have got a really interesting pickup for us. as an extra headline this week about our gut and sleep. Tell us about that. It could be because

my algorithm, my brain was on a real sleep mission, as everybody will know. But the new scientists released new research. So that's kind of like a journal and they do events where all the latest science comes together in an accessible way. And I got so excited to see a new research that so did a connection between the gut microbiome and sleep with dietary fiber linked to sleep quality. And what I'd said also when writing the fiber formula is that we know that the microbiome plays a huge role in different productions in the body, short chain fatty acids on our mood. And it makes sense that it plays a role with sleep. But now we have a link. They found that certain gut bacteria thrive on the fiber.

They produce the metabolites, the short chain fatty acids that influence our chemistry in our brain and that sleep wake cycle. We know that our microbes have their own circadian rhythms. We discuss that a lot on the Wellness Group podcast here. but it adds to that growing evidence that food, it's not just one food. You'll see in media headlines, what foods contain the most melatonin, you know. Things that contain tryptophan like turkey. Turkey or cherries from melatonin and all these things, but it doesn't quite work like that. You can't just influence a hormone immediately by eating one food.

But now we know that it's the fiber and the overall fruit and vegetables and whole grains and the things that we're missing in this country massively. And they're the things that are making these connections. in our brain. So essentially what we now need to understand is the mechanisms involved and research it further to get into those individual strains of bacteria. But I just geeked out a little bit. I was like, yes, fibre is now linked officially to sleep, watch this space. It's so interesting with gut health, isn't it, as well? Because, you know, earlier on in our careers, say like 15 years ago, no one was talking about gut health. It was such a kind of niche topic.

We'd know a huge amount about it. I just did the store chart in the clinic. That was it. It was like, oh, how are your We knew that everything started there, but it wasn't mainstream. It was something you just did in clinic. Yeah. And over the last decade, how our gut works, our gut microbiome, how we feed our microbiome, it becomes clearer and clearer that it's like integrally linked to almost all functions in our body. And it's just really exciting because, you know, obviously this is something we can influence quite easily at home with what we're eating and adding things in to kind of positive nutrition, which is incredibly exciting.

Anyways, talking about how our bodies work, our first headline this week is also, I think, a really positive, exciting one. Mind over matter. Positive thinking can boost immune system. Activating brain circuits think to optimism and hope can strengthen the body's defenses against disease. And you study suggests. So that headline was picked up everywhere and it was all based on something that was published in nature medicine. And I think we've always seen that positive thinking has been associated with kind of our morale, our mental. to wellbeing. There's lots of evidence about that. But according to this new research, it actually can influence how the immune system responds to vaccines, which is what they were testing. So interesting, isn't it? So what the researchers found was that people who were

trained to activate brain circuits linked to optimism mounted a stronger, better immune response after vaccination than those people who didn't have those optimist circuits going. So it wasn't a crazy difference, as you would expect. It was modest, but it was measurable. And again, it just suggests new links between expectation, brain activity, immune function. Glass is half full. Let's pour some half full glasses. No, but it's so true. And I often do think about, you know, performers on stage that just don't get sick.

They've got eight shows a week in the West End. And perhaps it's that actual acting part of just putting on a smile and it helps. There's must be so much more in it. So the study had healthy volunteers and they took part in brain training sessions where they tried. different mental strategies to boost activity in the specific regions of the brain that were being monitored. So they received real-time feedback in the form of scores that they rose and fell depending on which region lit up, how active they were.

And they could see how successful they were activating them. And then after four sessions, all of them were given a standard hepatitis B vaccine. And the blood samples were taken two and four weeks later and analyzed for the antibodies. against hepatitis, so how much protection we had essentially gathered after that vaccination. And that allowed the researchers added to compare the immune responses across the groups. And they found that people who boosted activity in part of the brain's reward system called the eventual developmental area or the VTA, had the strongest immune response to the vaccine. Exactly. It's unbelievable. So those who increase activity in this region most successfully

tended to do so by using positive expectations such as imagining good things happening in the future. So basically, as you break it down, people who are better able to activate optimism-linked brain circuits, imagining good things happening to them, produced more antibodies after vaccination. So they genuinely influence their physiological response. It's absolutely extremely. Mind over matter. It's insane. This was led in Tel Aviv uni and the team also are now looking further into the fact that perhaps this support our immune response and look at fields like cancer. This could be groundbreaking in terms of science. I think it's so exciting.

Totally. And I think the idea is, you know, again, this is bringing together kind of holistic ways of working alongside conventional medication, looking at how you can kind of further harness the body's own immune defenses and response. And obviously, I'm surprising to hear the research is a very clear early stage. But nonetheless, I think it's so interesting to think about how it could be put into And I think it's also important to say that there is so much about mindset that has already been studied. Like it is another piece adding to a picture.

You know, we've known for a long time, for example, chronic stress suppresses immune function. You know, we know how bad chronic stress is for us collectively, which is so important. And then there's things, for example, like in the Nurses Health Study, which was done at Harvard, it's one of the biggest health studies. The research for some of this was published in JAMA Psychiatry in July 2024. It was looking at data from almost 50,000 women. And what they found there were the participants with gratitude scores in the highest third, had a 9% lower risk of dying over the following four years compared to those in the lowest third.

So I just think that was important to include because there is this kind of collective body showing how our mind is so important. Our mental well-being is so important. And I'm not saying we should just fake everything. But there is something to be said and getting up and be like, I'm going to make today the best day I can possibly make. I'm going to find the silver linings. Because almost always in amongst really rubbish day, something is great and it might just be a really great cup of coffee

or a really nice cup of tea, if that's more your cup of tea. Do you want to start with me? It's quite emotional as when you describe Matt's mom on that day where she said, what a beautiful day. Do you remember that when she, obviously, you had a family gathering? Yeah, no, she had this is my, mother-in-law who passed away in 2018 and she had just a year before that been given a terminal diagnosis with brain cancer and she had been in hospital for a little bit and we then were back at

their house they lived in the countryside and it was my husband and I and his sister and her husband and their baby and Matt's parents and we were in their garden and my niece was sure she was She was really young. She was like three or four months old. It was suddenly this heat wave beginning of May. It was so beautiful. England's always so beautiful that time of year. And so they gave her, the sweetest little swimming cosy they found,

and they gave her a little, like, pool experience in a, I think it was just like a giant washing-up bowl in the garden. And it was so sweet. And I just remember, you know, spending the whole day worrying. And then obviously so much was unfolding. But then at the end of the day, Matt's mom, who was the one who'd been given this diagnosis, was like, that was a really beautiful day.

wasn't it? And she was right. It was a really beautiful day. It was actually a really perfect day in and of itself. It's funny though sometimes just a sentence someone says probably doesn't mean anything to them kind of sticks with you forever. Yeah. I mean it had an impact on me. You're just telling that story and I'm sure lots of people listening. But I think this is a sign to try and establish gratitude more in our lives, to have a look. It's hard to shift an outlook though. But like we said, when the world is so bleak right now, I feel like this is a particularly difficult time for people. but I also want to add we shouldn't be boosting our immune function no matter what the title of the headline said.

But it wasn't in relation to diet, but still you don't want your immune system to go into overdrive. Don't want an overactive. You just want a healthy wealth functioning. Doesn't have the same clickbait though. I will say one more thing though in trying to cultivate that gratitude. I still remember. So when was this?

This would have been early 2021. So during lockdown, I did this eight-week mindfulness-based stress reduction course. It was really fantastic. but I remember this exercise, the psychologist who was running the course told us to do. She was like, we're so out of our bodies, we're so overstimulated, we're so busy, we're rushing around, we're just not taking a moment to appreciate those subtle things.

And she said, you know, every day this week, you need to just go and do a walk. It can be so short, can be 10 minutes, or do something without your phone, without distractions, and actually focus on your senses. And it sounds so simple, but it is amazing how those little exercises, sizes can make such a big difference.

You don't have to do the whole shabang. But it was just, I would walk up to just a coffee shop's like a three-minute walk from my house and get my favorite coffee. And it was really interesting. You just, you notice your feet on the ground. You notice, you know, obviously the traffic. I like birds singing, like listening to birdsong. Even exactly in the middle of such Toronto traffic, there's still birdsong.

Then you actually like really taste the coffee and you're like, oh, that's how it feels in my mouth. And it's amazing how just trying not to be distracted by everything. I started to appreciate little things because I was actually looking at it and it was actually tasting the coffee and it was actually, oh, the warmth of it is so nice and so you don't need to like create a fancy gratitude list

you don't need to go and buy anything new and big and shiny but I think if I say it to myself as well I think it is just trying to take those moments where you're like, you know what? Like you look out the window and the lights hitting beautifully or you have a lovely cup of tea

or you have a really nice chat with a friend or something you just kind of sit in the moment and you're like, this is actually you really lovely? Probably to anybody listening that's having a really rubbish day. I hope this podcast picks you up because I know it's also okay to acknowledge that overwhelming feeling of sadness and feelings pass and then that's when you find that that glimmer of hope or that glimmer of beautiful, beautifulness in the world. I feel like I'm turning into wicked language or I'm gulindifying everything. I'm just going to, but I'm just saying it's okay to be down, but let's just

look at grass shoot, right Ella. I will tell you, I saw the best rainbow of my life last week. I said to Ella, I was like, that's a sign for good year. Insane. It was like double. It was like double. Full double. That touched.

I could have found a popcorn. I know. Literally. That really got me excited when I saw that. I was like, oh my gosh. It was actually insane. I was speaking to one of my best friends on the phone. And she was kind of going through some big life change.

She was explained to me. I was like, it's a sign that you're doing the right thing because I'm telling you. I'm standing under a rainbow I've never seen before. That's so nice you gave that sign to her as well. That's very kind. Local news is in decline across Canada, and this is bad news for all of us. With less local news, noise, rumors, and misinformation fill the void, and it gets harder to separate truth from fiction.

That's why CBC News is putting more journalists in more places across Canada, reporting on the ground from where you live, telling the stories that matter to all of us, because local news is big news. Choose news, not noise. CBC News. Did you know that Staples Professional can tailor a custom program to make running your business easy? With a Staples Professional account, you get one vendor, one delivery, and one invoice for all your must-haves.

From tech to cleaning supplies and dedicated support from Staples experts who guide you on everything, from product selection and ordering to payment. Join today at staplesprofessional.ca and get expert solutions tailored to your business. That was easy. I'm so excited to tell you about my brand new cookbook, Quick Wins, Healthy Cooking for Busy Lives. I wrote this one to make healthy cooking just simple when life is busy. So you'll find fridge ate suppers, one pound wonders and batch cooks that you can turn into two easy meals. Plus, we have eight weeks of delicious meal plans to complete with shopping lists so all the thinking's been done for you.

Every recipe also gives you plant points to help you eat more plants so you can get your 30 plants a week. It'll all help you feel great and just make healthy cooking feel effortless again. So Quick Wins is out now wherever you get your books. We are going on to headline too. We're feeling positive. We're going to go down, but we'll come back up again afterwards. Doctors warn of horrific impact of tech and devices on young people's health. Quote, we see the damage from harmful online content and excessive screen time every day,

says the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges to Ministers. That headline was from Sky News. Again, this was picked up everywhere. It was a warning that came out of the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges, which represents 23 different medical royal colleges and facilities across the country. And the Academy wrote directly to government ministers following a meeting that revealed the scale of the damage. Clinicians say they're witnessing every day in NHS clinics and A&Es. It's really shocking.

And I think it's really, really important, given the recent campaigning, obviously, which we're going to discuss. We saw Australia, didn't we put the ban in. But this meeting initially was held in October, so 2025, and it was described as extraordinarily moving because clinicians gave personal testimonies about what they described as horrific cases. They have treated with some attendees left close to tears.

And you've got more than 20 senior medics that were there, including GPs, the A&E doctors, the psychiatrists, the paediatricians. But to understand, I think, the scale of exposure right now, we have to really take a step back and think that toddlers in Britain, so like one to three, now spend an average of 127 minutes a day on screens, which is far too long. I think off the top of my head, is it meant to be under half an hour, I think, if Ella, you want to look that up quickly for toddlers. And 98% of two-year-olds exceed the daily screen time limits that are set by the World Health Organization.

Yeah, the World Health Organization recommends a maximum of one-hour screen time a day for children, age two to four. Yeah, and that's two to four. And we're talking about children one to two having more than that already, which is quite worrying. Teenagers, I mean, of course it's higher because of gaming and all sorts of reasons, but the mobile phones, according to the latest available data, teens spend around seven hours and 22 minutes a day in front of screens

and around 43% of their waking hours. I mean, I've never felt more grateful to be a millennial and to have known life without a phone. I know. It's absolutely extraordinary. So I guess there's a few concurrent conversations going on here. We've obviously got all this new data coming out. Australia has now put in their policy banning under 16s. Although I was reading over the weekend, lots of people saying they're still on it.

You can still access it. If we've got listeners in Australia, I'm so interested to hear any anecdotes or personal experience that you've got, please let us know. Because I think that that ban is going to be really helpful for children that are younger coming up. I think it might be a bit too late for teenagers. Exactly. but maybe for people like us with younger children, it will make it much easier for us to stop them from joining it. The peer pressure, the peer pressure of giving a phone.

Exactly. But at the same time, there's also a big piece of research and guidance that's going to be coming out in April. So very, very soon to parents of under fives in England, they're about to be offered official advice on how long their children should spend watching TV or using screens. Again, I actually forgot to add this into the notes, but I was reading teachers and out reporting as children

to start joining a reception, is that they're trying to tap books and swipe books because we're just all so used to, and children are so used to screens that they are, they're tapping and swiping their books, which is quite extraordinary because it's what they're so used to. Anyway, we're not the only country looking at this obviously in detail. Australia, as I said, that ban came into effect in December, so it's very, very recent. Interestingly, nearly 70% of voters in Australia supported the ban for social media use under 16th. But only 35% of people said they were confident that they'd actually successfully be able to block under 16s.

And as I said, when you read, it doesn't seem like that's necessarily worked. Although the affected platforms, so things like Snapchat, etc., they can face fines of up to 49.5 million Australian dollars, which is about 25 million pounds. So if they're not found to be taking reasonable steps. So they are really holding them to account. Anyway, the UK, so they're going to publish this information in the spring about under fives, but they're also concurrently now going to be voting on and looking at doing a similar Australia-style move to restrict social media use under 16th. Now, it seems very clear that Keir Starmour is not personally a fan of it from everything that I've read. And that's not going to necessarily help the cause.

And I think it's quite a complicated topic in the Labour Party at the moment. I don't feel very confident that it will come in. I really hope it does, though. I feel I think adolescence, that TV program, helped in this country. I feel like that was another layer added to the discussion as well. But what is really, really concerning about it as well, social media? This is also a privileged conversation because we have to remember that parents' working boundaries, cost of living crisis, having to take care of children, but having to work all hours under the sun,

putting screens on occupies a child while parents are trying to do other tasks. And I think when it comes to books, there was that statistic we discussed once on the podcast before about how many children now read actually get access to books. So many children don't have books. There are charities to give children books in this country. I know my publishers, DK, have one where they give a child a book because they've never had one before. So I think it's a part of a big issue we've got. We have to support that infrastructure. but the Academy is really clear about the concerns, of course.

Social skills is one of them. Dr. Jeanette Dickinson, chair of the Academy, said, without doubt, we are seeing the beginning of a public health emergency with our own eyes. Everywhere we look, we see children and adults glued to the screens. It's as if it's happened under our noses. And she pointed to the pandemic, which we all know during COVID, children were encouraged to play online, complete schoolwork online, socialized through screens.

and we never really went back again and not enough adults stepped in afterwards to say put down the iPad, go out to play, make friends in a park. And I think that again, like I just said, is quite a privileged thing because I do think that depends on what's going on in that person's lives.

It was really hard to shift for adults and parents. But her concern is that it shouldn't be seen as normal because it's antisocial. Yeah, it's so interesting. I just want to clarify my children watch screens. Oh gosh, yeah, of course. I don't think most do it. And it's very hard to get the balance, right?

there's no kind of blaming, but I think it's a very important facet of the conversations in health and wellness at the moment. Interestingly, there are a few kind of key points. Social skills, as you said, Rie was one of the big ones. Physical health, particularly eyesight. So really terrifyingly, there was one optometrist, Daniel Hargeman, who was included in this. And the warning that children are needing glasses, increasing young ages due to excessive screen time, he's estimating that by 2050, Around 40% children could be myopic if current trends continue. They're concerned about it prompting a rise in ADHD as well. Again, you've got paediatricians specialising in ADHD talking about this,

about how children are especially vulnerable to digital environments because of the rapid reward and stimulation, as we know as adults, that's difficult to deal with. He said there's a lot of content that offers addictive reward responses. We shouldn't be putting children in harm's way in that sense by asking them to use tech safely when adults can't. That's something when I read it that really resonated with me.

I can't use tech safely. I have to buy a thing to lock me out. So how can I expect my children to be able to? Also, it's in places you don't expect. I don't know if you remember I shared that I brought my son for his like third birthday a digital camera for fun so he could like tape pictures that wasn't on a phone.

I wanted him to have like a little camera. Turns out on that camera there was that snake's game thing I didn't know about and he had found it. Same thing happened to me. Exactly same thing happened to me. The Christmas beforehand, bought the girls digital cameras, thought this would be the funest thing.

I've bought one from my friend Tessa's daughter, Clara, and I felt so bad. All they wanted to do was play the stupid games on the cameras. I said, what are you doing in the corner of the room? What are you doing? And he was like, sat there for ages. Oh, he's taking pictures of the playroom. I honestly thought he was taking pictures.

And it was the game. Yeah, same thing happened to us. And then I blew my mind, how he figured it out. I know. I know. And I've done exactly the same. I've conviscated it. But also, what's so scary for us parents is,

am I holding them back? because I'm extreme with it. So I've always said not until they're 16, they're not getting a phone. I mean, I will be the most hated parent. I do not care. I'm so strong about it. But am I holding my kids back

by not allowing them as much screen time? Because they're not up with all the trends, like the other kids that watch football that know all the players and positions. My son doesn't because he doesn't watch as much TV. Yeah, it is. It's a really tricky thing to find a balance with. I totally, totally agree.

I think the other thing as well, obviously, this is speaking much more to teenagers and older children, but clinicians also describing a lot of concern that we've heard a lot about over the last few years. Obviously, it's what adolescents also speaking to, but exposure to violent imagery and also dangerous sexual behavior, doctors reporting cases involving young women, being pressured or forced to act out risky sexual behavior because a partner has been exposed to similar content. I didn't include it in here, but there was some really horrific things from A&E doctors.

Did you see the case of the glasses as well? So there's now people going around on the streets, teenagers wearing glasses of cameras in them. And they were filming women without their consent and then they end up on social media. So girls in schools were ending up on social media in their school uniforms without having consented to it and they were being pulled down. Isn't that awful?

It's so, so scary. Well, there's all these, yeah, new platforms you can kind of undress women. Again, that's in the news of the movies. It is trying to be positive, guys. I know. But we want to ban it. But I think it's also important to realize

that we are living in a very odd world at the moment and the kind of, yeah, there's societal, economic, geopolitical moves are huge and it's normal to kind of feel overwhelmed by it or, you know, you read this, it's absolutely terrifying. The online world's terrifying. You then read about various different political leaders and what they'd like to do and, like, it's absolutely terrifying.

And it's just not to be really reductive or overly naive, but ultimately, like, we can't control anything, outside of ourselves. And so I think there is so much to say of try in the world of how easy it is to feel overwhelmed. Just try and control those little bits around you that support your kind of just outlook when I say wellbeing in terms of like just do those little nice things for yourself. Have a bath. What do you feel good movie.

Call your friend. Eat some delicious dark chocolate. Cook yourself a delicious dinner. We can't control what's happening outside of our own little world. But those little things we can control and they do make a difference. Can I just say if you need a feel good movie after all of that to come back onto a light note? There was a Christmas movie on Netflix this year called Champagne Problems. Oh my gosh.

Champagne Problems. Oh my gosh. I literally was like Cheshire Cac watching it. Oh my gosh, that means I'm absolutely going to love it. You're going to love it. So if anyone needs something to feel good, go watch champagne problems. You'll feel amazing. Okay, Rhee, the last one.

Is it true? This is coming straight to you that we burn more fat on an empty stomach. The Guardian ran this just before Christmas. And we thought it was a good one to cover, just because it's a long-standing question in the world of nutrition, there's loads out there on like fasted exercise, not fasted exercise. Lots about young women on this or women, because I think we talk a lot about fast exercise and hormones and the impact on that. So, yeah, good moment maybe to use this headline to step back and see what retells us the science actually says about the topic. It is crazy, isn't it?

Because we're still seeing headlines like this. They are good clickbait, though, aren't they? They are such good clickbait because I think. this is where that Fitsbo thing online came from where go and burn as much energy in the gym, don't eat breakfast and wait until we've worked out, which I think is very, very unhealthy. So essentially, this isn't true for everybody that you burn more fat on an empty stomach. It's the type of exercise you're doing, the individual differences we have. And I think ultimately the data is misinterpreted to make these headlines.

So when you see things like this, it can really scream the message that, fasting is the best thing for us in the world. It's really good for our bodies and we have to remember that the way our body uses energy is very different. So we've got our metabolism, you've got different energy sources, you've got your fats, you've got your proteins, you've got your carbs. Our body's preferred source of fuel is to use glycogen, that's carbohydrates, that's stored around your muscles, around your liver, and we want to tap into that energy source. However, that tends to happen when we go to the gym or we suddenly up our energy expenditure like we're running for the bus.

But everyday life, we tend to burn fat. Like walking tends to tap into fat stores. And where the weight loss sort of comes from and where it's mixed is that there's a few like short-term studies that suggests that exercising in the morning after an overnight fast of 8 to 12 hours may, may, I use the word, increase fat oxidation. So the burning of fat during the workout sometimes by up to 20%. So that's kind of where it comes from. But there's also so many other studies that point to different things.

And they date back to 2015 where you've got some that said that exercise following an overnight fast was more effective at reducing body fat compared to non-fasted. But participants who trained fasted also then showed higher stress levels. And then higher stress levels of cortisol in return could actually impact your weight loss because it means your appetite is often spiked. It means that you then promote fat storage because that hormone, Chronic stress we know can promote fat storage in many studies. And then we often don't look at the different population groups. One bugbear of mine is that you get these headlines based off these small studies and it will be on 12 men with diabetes or, you know, 20 women that are aged 60 plus and then they

apply it to like the whole population. I think we just to pause you there. Yes. I think that's such an important point because what you see generally, in terms of, let's say, like, misleading contents online, where it all gets a bit murky and confusing. It's not that it's totally wrong or comes from nowhere. Like, there's always a seed that plants the conversation. But the key thing is that to your exact point, it will be a study on 12, yeah, middle-aged men with diabetes, does X, Y, or Z to help them.

That can't necessarily be translated to billions. of women, you know, of like going through the menopause or whatever it is. It's like, our bodies are different. And of course, we all have this like completely individual need, depending on what our day-to-day looks like and how much time do you spend sitting at a desk and how much do you move and how much have you slept and how stressed are you and all the rest of it. But then beyond that, we obviously have just like groups of people of similar ages, body weights, etc.

And none of that comes into it. So often when you see things, it's not that it's just fundamentally, wrong. It's just that potentially the information has been slightly misinterpreted to go from something not niche, but a small group of individuals to the entire population. And I think fasting is one of the best examples of that. Because outside of even just exercise, there is good evidence that fasting can be good for your health, but not for everybody all the time. Imagine being pregnant fasting or telling children, oh, don't eat breakfast in the morning. Off you go to school. And that's a big problem we've got. We don't want kids to be hungry going to school.

Trying to give my children breakfast is honestly like pulling teeth. It's so interesting that we... I've got the opposite problem. It's like a three-round gourmet thing and I've like, we've got to go. Oh my gosh. They are the slowest eaters in the morning and I'm like, guys, I've already missed one train. You just eat a half of these of times. I know, I know, bless them.

But I thought I put a quote in from... It's a bit geeky, but one of the leading researchers in the world, I think she's great. Courtney Peterson, she's at Harvard. She actually conducted the world's biggest randomised control trial in 2019. That's like gold dust. And the research she has on fasting, the benefit. She said, we found that daily intermittent fasting, so that's eating regular meals during a specific window.

I want to highlight that, regular meals at a specific window. We're not skipping whole meals. They're still eating, but just within a time frame between 8am and 4pm, or 11am and 7 p.m. Because we've got to remember our lifestyles are different. Our jobs are different. That doesn't work for everyone. She said that this fast that normally adds to about 16 hours does help people lose weight,

but it's because it's the equivalent of around 250 calories a day you're losing from snacking or, you know, half a pound of week. Yeah, you've missed like that second part of your evening dinner if you last eight at seven. Or you didn't have breakfast and you just have brunch. So it doesn't help you burn more calories like this headline suggests. You know, if you work out fasted, you're burning more calories. It's not that. It's just that it helps you eat less over that time period. and then in return, it reduces the hunger hormones because you get used to the regularity of that time period.

And in the studies, they've said that people that practice intermittent fasting feel less hungry in the early evening because their body has adapted to it. And the biggest misconception, I think, is that it will make you lose too much muscle mass if you're eating at the right time. But I actually see in the clinic such negative impacts of fasting because it's so difficult to apply to everyday life, the unpredictability of everyday life. It just doesn't fit unless you are somebody that's very blessed to be stable, to have the same routine every day, to be able to maintain it. Often that's men because they don't have hormonal fluctuations.

And I think it benefits men more than women. They don't have the week before their period. No. Or the period itself. They don't have to worry about that. So anyway, I think, you know, I could go on forever about working out. But fasted workouts, essentially, the research suggests that, you know, how our muscles adapt change. But ultimately it can cause blood sugar crashes.

And then we go throughout the day your cravings hit. You are going to have a spike again in cortisol, a drop. You're going to crave different foods, more coffee afterwards. And it's a knock-on effect several hours later of fasted workouts for women, especially, that are negative. I wrote loads for this. I've got to cut it down. There's a new study, just one 2025 study in food science and nutrition that looked about what we know so. far for women with intermittent fasting. And for many people, for some women, it can help blood sugar

responses and overall metabolic health. But again, it does depend on your age. And if you are trying for a baby, fertility, many of the studies are short term and small or on animals. And I've actually got a voice note from our sports nutritionist in the clinic, Abby Robertson in the nutrition clinic, just to give us a more balanced overview in terms of the headline. Hi, it's Abby. I'm a registered nutritionist and sports nutritionist. And the question around whether faster training will ever be good for females and also on the flip side of that, are there any negative effects of that, is something that really comes up quite often. The short answer from research is this really depends on the context. Most of the evidence that we have in this space

suggests that the biggest driver of hormone disruption isn't the physical fasted exercise itself. It's something that we called low energy availability. And it's effective. where you're not consuming enough energy to match the amount of energy that's outgoing from your body. So that can be through exercise as one of those factors, but also just going about your daily activities, because we know we burn significant amount of energy doing so. So women, we know, are generally more sensitive to small changes in energy balance than men. And overall, this can lead to what we know as something called Red S if it carries on for a prolonged period of time. And this effectively refers to relative energy deficiency in sport.

and it's where the body effectively starts to downregulate reproductive thyroid and metabolic hormones to conserve energy because our body simply doesn't have enough to match what we're putting out in terms of energy. Negatively, there are the negative effects of this which are things such as menstrual irregularities, bone health, recovery and overall well-being. So it's something we really want to avoid if we can as exercising women. We also start to see things like functional, hypothalic ameneria, where periods basically stop completely because the body perceives ongoing stress and under-fueling, and it's the combined approach of that which can lead to the complete loss of menstruation. And cortisol plays a role here as well,

and that's something that I think a lot of people think about when they think of fasted exercise and stress in the morning. We know that cortisol naturally rises in the morning in our bodies. cortisol is obviously our stress hormone, but we also know that fasted training can effectively add to that stress response, particularly if it's frequent and intense training that's happening. Research does show that women burn more fat in fasted sessions. We know that the science is there. However, and a really important message here is that when other studies have looked at comparing the effects of exercising fasted versus exercising with fueling beforehand, and over the long term, there's actually no change in body composition whatsoever between the two groups,

implying maybe short term there may be some form of fat loss or additional fat being burnt during these exercise sessions when they're fasted. But in the long run, we know that the effect on body composition is very limited. So if this is the driving factor and if you're going to do fasted exercise because you think it's going to affect body composition more beneficially, then it's something that I would suggest you look more into and try fueling ourselves, especially if you are struggling or you're feeling weak

or you're feeling like you're unable to complete your session because you're tired. So we know fast energy is probably unlikely to be beneficial for women only because of the effect it could have on our hormones. However, it's such an important message to people to say that we're all completely unique. You know, one person may feel completely fine exercising fasted.

especially for low intensity sessions, whereas others really may struggle. And I am one of the latter. I can't exercise myself without eating anything, but I have friends and peers who can. It's the way that your body is and the way that your body reacts to it. But what I would suggest, just to make sure that your body is really getting enough energy that it needs to be performing and recovering, because that's also a massive side of training and exercise too. I would really suggest trying to just take on a tiny bit of fuel, anything that makes you feel like you have something in you. It could be a shake, you know, a simple smoothie, it could be half a banana, a small slice of toast, anything that makes you comfortable and feel like you can still exercise and not uncomfortable, but giving yourself that little bit of something for your body to go off. But like I say, it's completely unique and something that absolutely can be explored with a nutritionist.

It's something that you struggle with. and I would recommend it, but the message overall is fasted exercise isn't inherently bad. It's just something that over a long periods of time, if it's intense, can lead to some negative health effects. So it's something we want to watch out for. Okay, we're going to go into our trends today, and our first trend is the year of the cabbage. Re-sent me this on WhatsApp last week, and I just so didn't see the year of the cabbage coming. I didn't see it hitting you. I so didn't see it.

No, it's in so many outlets now since we did it. Once you said it, I saw it everywhere. This line comes from Vogue. 2026 is the year of the cabbage meet the most underrated leafy green, which I just really appreciated. Obviously, they had such a chic image, including a cabbage. But according to Vogue, cabbage is the it, vegetable of the year. Obviously, we've seen the cycle before, like I'm sure everyone remembers,

Beyonce wearing the grey sweatshirt that's a kale on it. What was that? Like, probably 2016-ish. Yeah, we've had turmeric. We've had cauliflower. It's cabbage's turn. It does actually make sense. I think if we look at our kind of other trends, we've looked at like fiber maxing, obviously, best trend ever. I really love it.

It's really weird about cabbage is that for my science of nutrition book, the publishers back in 2020 wanted the front cover to just be one single image of purple cabbage. And I said, no, that looks like restriction. I don't want that on the book. I get that it's minimalist and artie, but I wanted a diverse range of foods because that's what I'm about. A sense of abundance. Yeah. But actually, they predicted. a trend. They predicted a trend. Do you know what?

And I'll often be like, oh, if I don't know, press, want to run a recipe, I'm like, oh, we wouldn't do that one because like no one really likes cabbage. I'll make the cabbage recipes. Oh, swallow our words. So we got it all wrong. But I think it is interesting because obviously we're seeing trends of fibromaxing of gut health, fermented foods, cabbage is what sits the center of all of that. Because obviously, fermented cabbage is sourcrow, kimchi, etc. It's cheap, it's widely available. But interestingly, looking at the numbers so business insider reported that menu items mentioning cabbage have increased by around 20% year and year over the last two years and Pintosh predicts which is a kind of yeah I guess it's a

trend prediction report they put together has dubbed this cabbage crush because we've got searches of cabbage things like cabbage dumplings up 110% over the last year so yeah so why is cabbage good for us why is this a good thing right I'm going to make some of pull out the recipes in my book that have cabbage in them. Cabbage is great because it's full of fibre. And you can get different colour cabbages with different phyto chemicals, depending on if you go purple or green or dark green or whiter varieties. And it's important to remember when you're doing a 30 plants a week that all count. So like just like different peppers count, it's not like a hispy cabbage is different to, as you said, like a purple cabbage, that would give you two of your

30 points. Exactly. It's low in energy. So, you know, I don't like talking about calories. But of course, You can eat more of it, basically, you know, fills up your plate. Vitamin C, vitamin K, because good for gut health. It's just a nice vegetable. But it does make me think, again, of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory cabbage soup, and that's what they'd sit in that bed, all four of them, and eat. And it just feels, it feels very much like a peasant food that's going to have a moment, which is quite nice.

We watched the really old, like the original Charlie's a chocolate movie at the weekend. Oh, my gosh. It's absolutely God. It's that song, that imagination song. I know. It's absolutely fantastic. But the other thing, obviously, with cabbage is you can make, yeah, as I said, your kimchi or your sauerkraut. And it's actually quite easy to do if you want to add more fermented foods.

What I'd also recommend is roasting cabbage. Love. Yeah, so good. Goes kind of crispy. Unless you add loads of olive oil and then it's like. Sorry. Yeah. What do I love, I love hispy cabbage.

Love his restaurant menus. So good. And then you roast it. I have got a recipe actually in Quicks. It's like, and weirdly, I did an event in Bathurst, week, and all these people kept saying they've made. this recipe with Hispie cabbage and I thought clearly it's the year of the cabbage because I've never had that before but you quarter a sweet hot cabbage and then you just fry it until it's lightly charred and then roast it with butter beans red onion and you do that all in this like

delicious amizo maple glaze pop it all in the other until the cabbage goes kind of tender and caramelized the beans are a little bit crispy and then you add loads of spring onion sesame seeds and coriander super easy and the cabbage is the main event and cabbage is also really cheap which is Great. And that's so balanced because you've got beans for protein, cabbage, the veg, the fibre. I love that. I was also going to say, did you love Bath? Because Bath is my home, like, near my home city.

It was such a lovely place. Isn't it the best city in the world? It's so, so nice. Yeah, it's absolutely gorgeous. Yay. Okay, our second trend is like this one in particular. The headline comes from the Times. It was I tried blood cleaning the latest wellness bad.

As I said, we've seen it a fair amount. So obviously this is kind of luxury wellness, but these. trans do make headlines because they are obviously so extreme. And this article in particular followed a writer who tried out the procedure. Rie, how do you say it? It's aferesis. It's the name of the procedure. Oh yeah, atheracus. Okay, there's aferesis. Okay, thank you. It's offered at various different private clinics and this one in particular, they were saying the price is about £3,800. pounds and this session quite unquote cleans your blood of heavy metals, microplastics,

so-called forever chemicals, pesticides, herbicides, excessive lipids and inflammatory markers. I also think we'll have all your own thoughts on it. Generally speaking, she's shaking ahead, I thought you were going to think that. I'm not about to endorse it just before you panic. No, what I want to say is that we cover lots of trends. You guys know we've talked about it before. Like neither of us, for example, are big fans of things like green powders. whilst I am not a huge fan of things like that,

inherently speaking, it's unlikely that there's anything, you know, deeply damaging other than just being, you know, expensive we and you could spend your money more wisely. I don't think we cover that many trends that I would say, oh, my gosh, please don't do this, other than I don't think it's a great use of your time and money. Whereas with this... This is scary.

And it's so invasive. They take your blood out. Run it through. They separate it into different components. so you can filter the plasma, then recombine it and return it via the other arm several hours later. And the founder of this clinic said, like, it's not a pampering treatment, it's medical procedure. Yeah, it's like kidney dialysis. It's like you're hooking people up to dialysis.

Exactly. That's what it's most similar to. But obviously, instead of filtering whole blood to do the work of the kidneys, you're separating blood into these components, plasma, platelets, red or white blood cells before removing, replacing or filtering parts of it. So they have used procedures like this in hospitals before blood donor centres, obviously, it is used to treat some very serious conditions. But this is very new to take procedures like this and kind of rebrand as a detox or anti-aging intervention for healthy people. I mean, it's just very extreme. Orlando Bloom is a big fan. He was talking about it. That's, I think, why it got pick up. I just feel celebrities on that level shouldn't talk about it and they should keep it private because I don't see what gain that A does for his image or reputation, but equally for an industry that is so fraught with just fear at the moment because this is extreme. It's very risky. Please, if anybody's done this, check their medical professionals. Please, please, please, because that is terrifying. But your body does this. Your body naturally has a system.

to filtrate these things out. And also... We talked about it two weeks ago, didn't we? Yeah. Change your lifestyle. And it's a born to say there's no meaningful clinical studies into a ferrisis as this sort of treatment. And, you know, in 2022, there was an investigation in the British Medical Journal, which was examining similar types of procedures that had been popularised for long COVID.

That raised serious concerns about efficacy. You won't be surprised to hear. So there's no good evidence at filtering blood and healthy people and people. improves outcomes beyond what the body's own systems do. But I want to say I are. But we're all scared of things like microplastic. And so it all just becomes, I hasten to say appealing, I'm not sure this is appealing to most of us because it is so excrement.

Anyone who's remotely squeamish is not going to want to do it either. But when you're vulnerable, so I've got a lot of clients that come to me that have spent money on these test kits and all sorts of things or gone for a procedure perhaps like this. And they go because they're in a place where they're experienced. experiencing all sorts of different thoughts and feelings and emotions. It can be out of fear. It can be out of a promise of a better health.

It's just such a vulnerable space to be in with your health right now. And if you've got health, anxiety, or all sorts of things, or a high pressure job or your performer, I can see completely how you fall victim to it. But we should go back to that article, Ella. Yes, exactly. So if you missed it. I think it was our episode two weeks ago, and we went through this BBC piece called How to Help the Body Detox itself.

and it was, as it sounds, a provocative headline, but actually it was very much talking exactly as we said that like if you look after your body with whole foods, eat lots of fibre, drink lots of water, move your body, etc. Your body is well set up to, quote unquote, detoxify itself. And so, you know, there shouldn't be a need to do this. Obviously, looking at our lifestyle is important for our general health, of course, but like the level of extremes is just, it's really scary.

I don't know. It really freaked me out. picture's really freaked me out. You would I rather raise and there was actually a question from a listener and maybe we'll cover it on the extra scoop. Things like our bone density and things that are just commonly issues in this country, you know, osteoprocess in women in this country is huge. And there are so many other things to be focusing on and instead cleaning our blood. Yeah. Anyways. Anyway. Anyway. So okay, things to do from this episode. Don't worry about fast as exercise. Don't clean your blood. Try some hispy cats.

And eat dark chocolate because that produces more stem cells. Yes, exactly. Know that your outlook can make all the difference. Try and find some optimism and gratitude where you can and step away from your phone. But also feed your gut bugs because it'll help your sleep. Exactly. I think that was absolutely jam-packed. And also everybody, we've got a new email address.

I think we should remind you about for our episodes that come on Thursdays. Yes. Hello at Wellness-scoop.com. So nice to hear from you guys in there. So keep it coming. We'll be back on Thursday. We are talking about eating well on a budget, blood sugar spikes, magnesium. Rees got some more stuff on some books she's been reading, some new things she's been cooking.

I've got some book recommendations as well. You guys have shared some recommendations. This is going to be jam-packed, so we'll see you on Thursday. Hi.