The Wellness Scoop - Plant Points, Fibre Hacks & Family Food Battles

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

Should you be counting plant points? How can you encourage healthy eating without creating family conflict? And are homemade foods always worth the extra effort?This week, we discuss how to navigate different parenting approaches around food, unpack the science behind fibre and plant diversity, and explore whether convenience foods can sometimes be the healthiest choice of all. Plus, we share our favourite travel snacks, discuss why appetite can change during periods of stress, and discover the documentary that's giving us hope for the future of food. The Way 30-day trail: https://www.thewayapp.com/wellnessscoop Send your questions for our weekly Q&A to ⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠ Pre-order your copy of Rhiannon's brand-new cook book for kids: ⁠'Ready, Set, Cook!' ⁠ For more from Rhi and Ella:  Order your copy of Ella's new book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quick Wins: Healthy Cooking for Busy Lives⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Order your copy of Rhi's new book: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Fibre Formula⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sign up to Rhitrition+ and join Beat The Bloat HERE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am genuinely so excited about today's sponsor because it's the way. Honestly, if you have listened to me any time over the last few months, you know I have become a little bit evangelical about this app. And I honestly recommend it to everyone. My friends, my family, people on Instagram, everyone. And she recommended it to me, so it's true. I've heard so much about it. It's just because it has had such a big impact on me.

I've meditated on and off for 15 years or so now. but using the way it's honestly the first time we've become so consistent with this daily practice and I've just seen the most unbelievable results as a result of that the app is just incredible and what I love is every day you open it and there's a meditation waiting for you so you don't scroll that you don't have to choose between hundreds of options there's no wondering what to do it just takes you on a path well I think that's why it works so well because you know most of us just don't need more big decisions every day to make Ella No, exactly that. We've got decision fatigue, haven't we? So this is so nice because you just follow this path of meditation, which is led by Henry, the founder, who's just the most amazing teacher. And he makes it seem somehow just incredibly simple, but exceptionally profound at the same time, which is a very rare skill. And I've been using it too. Yes, I've now finally begun a meditation journey and I've been doing some of the shorter practices on busy days because I completely understand why you talk about it so much, Ella, it really is. nice intro in for me. Yeah, it is and I'm so glad. Anyway, it's helped me feel so much

calmer, less reactive, more present. It all sounds like huge claims, but I just say, please, please, please try it if you're struggling with stress or overwhelm. You just got to give it a go. And the lovely thing is that everyone listening can definitely try it themselves. Exactly. So you can get a 30-day free trial, so just try it every day for a month. It'll change your life. All you do is head to theway app.com forward slash wellness. scoop. Yeah, that's thewayapp.com forward slash wellness scoop. Welcome to the Wellness Scoop, your twice weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we're both here as your host. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Reanna Lambert.

And today is the wonderful episode where we take your questions and we give our recommendations. Let's go. Rea and I've been talking off mic a lot about toothpaste and this confusion of fluoride, not fluoride, all the different opinions that people have. And I think it's a really interesting example of how confusing health advice can also be. Anyways, I have been trying a hydroxy appetite toothpaste as recommended by dentist friend of mine. But I want to try it for a bit longer before I tell you whether or not I recommend it because I did try another one that's very popular. And I feel like nothing has ever cleaned my teeth worse. Like they felt so furry and rank and it was definitely not working.

This one seems to be working, but I'm going to try it a bit longer before I tell you anything. It's an area where we both just said that I feel I know nothing about it at all. And it's so interesting. So Ella, in today's show, what have we got coming up? We're going to be talking about the question of, are you getting enough fiber? Do plant points actually work? Is there any point in tallying those up? Favorite snacks when we're traveling around.

The link between appetite and digestion, which I'm really excited to deep dive in, which foods are worth making from scratch and which ones should you do. just happily buy and so much more we also have loads of recommendations thoughts things from you guys it's going to be a diverse and juicy episode um re have you got any recommendations that you are burning to tell us about the first one is the disney plus princess show i just want to oh what is that i say burning recommendation what a name yeah this isn't um a wellness recommendation, although I think it's good for the soul if you grew up loving Disney classics like myself, but all of the people that voiced all of the classic Disney films dating back to

Pocahontas, Judy Kern, Lea Salonga for Jasmine and Moulin reflection, all of the absolute Disney legends, they threw this massive concert in America, Disney World. I mean, it's unbelievable. they celebrated the composer Lin Manuel who wrote the soundtrack for Enkanto, Moana, he did Hamilton the musical Legend. And people got awarded and celebrated and you can watch it back on Disney Plus and I cried a lot.

You know, like good tears. You know, it's a feel good, like, oh, memories. I've got to watch that this afternoon with a girl. Do it. It was really, really special. You'll have to fast forward all the acceptance speeches. Anne Hathaway was there accepting, because she's now at Disney Legend. for her roles within different films.

Can I do say, oh my gosh, on that? Did you see the spoiler like teaser for Frozen 3? Yeah, that was there that night. So it's my friend Amy that's there, Amy Hart, took the video of that and it went viral, millions of millions of speech. Oh, my God, was that your friend? Yeah, she was like, I forgot to even put a caption in it because I was so steep deprived.

She'd arrived on the plane. She's got a baby. She got this amazing job with Disney. And she filmed the clip, and it went everywhere. I watched it 100 times. And then I kept saying, oh my God, I'm so excited for Frozen 3. And I was like, how many times do you want to tell me you're really pumped about a movie aimed at seven-year-olds? And I was like probably just like two more because I think it's really good.

I am so excited to see Kristen Bell and Edina Manzell, who's the voice of Elsa up there on the stage. It is unbelievably exciting. So that's just a bit of a feel-good wreck for you. And as you know, I gave you all an exclusive last week to the pre-order for Ready Set Cook. So thank you to everyone that's pre-ordered there. That's being announced Saturday the 5th. It's out there in the world. And then I'm really getting ready for back to school now.

I mean, the kids are back at school as of today for me. And I feel very overwhelmed at it. I'm not going to gloss over it alongside all the feel-good things. And I'm so excited about the cookbook. I feel this, wow, this is it now. September, let's do this type of mode. I really need a bit of that September. Let's do this kind of mode.

I feel like by this point in some holidays, I'm like, I don't even know what day it is. Like I, I don't know. I feel like I live in a fish tank. I don't even know why a fish tank, like a dishwasher. I don't know. Come to mine. Bring a diary. Help me sort my life.

Ella, literally off air has been helping me with my dates because I can't compute in my head what day and what I'm doing anywhere. I have this memory though where like I'm not great remembering, you know, facts or something. Like if I read a book and, you know, 1792 this happened, I won't remember that. But I will remember what date and time you've told me that you're doing an event or like what train, like, you know, that it's the 11, 17. Oh my gosh, I have this really unnecessarily useless hack for excessive detail when it comes to date and time memory. So I can help you that. What are strengths and weaknesses.

Ella, you can definitely help me with that practicality. I actually think it makes me like a stalker or like a psycho most of the time. It makes you a good friend. Yeah, or like overinvested. Well, who needs to know in 1956 this happened? You know, I need to know what time train I've got to get today. I'll be late for work. So I think it's valid, Ella.

Thank you very much. How about you, my love? What have you been up to? Okay, recommendations, guys. I am obsessed. I mentioned her the other day, Emily Henry. Oh my God, Ray, you need these books. Next time I see you in real life, I'll bring some.

You've lent me the one I'm going to be starting to read as my work slows down, the wedding people. So good. Okay, after that, Emily Henry. Okay, so there's a show I think I've mentioned this before, and Netflix called The People We Meet on Vacation. It's like, you know, it's a feel-good show. If you haven't watched it and you like having a bit of a bad day or like need a cozy night in with some popcorn, it's a good one. But it wasn't like anything, I don't think it was anything special. But then I had lots of people talking about her books. She is so good. So the first one I read was Happy Pace. and then the second one I read was book lovers. And now we've just started Funny Story.

So I'm really on a role here. And then I'm going holiday for a few days. And I'm taking Beach Read and Great Big Beautiful Life for Other Two with me. So hopefully by the end of August I have completed Emily Henry. But the books are just, they're so feel good. And they're like, I don't know. There's something about them. They're like quite, they're like relatively PG for Ron.

coms and they're just really sweet and nice and like they just make you feel really good about the world anyway they're really easy to read but they're fun and I don't know I think there's been a lot going on it's not been my favourite month they've had in a while and like they have just been so good so I wholeheartedly recommend Emily Henry's books they've been great and then I am obsessed with broth at the moment like veggie you are this is the third week of hot summer broth making, Ella. I'm obsessed. But I tell you the product that's game-changing here is the clear spring instant noodle broth.

And it's just so clever because it's got ingredients in it like kombu, chitaki mushroom, Mirren, rice syrup, cultured rice, yeah, kombu-see vegetables. It's not things that you like keep on hand necessarily in the cupboard. But then it's all in one anyway. And you just add a few spoons of it at the end. and the flavour is amazing. Anyway, I'm just really into it. I love that.

And then you've also put cookies. So have you been making lots of cookies? Yeah, I've kind of got veggie broth on one hand and I've got chocolate chip cookies on the other, which is like the perfect combo of life. I forgot how nice it is to make cookies. I think that was my recommendation, basically. It was my niece who's also my husband's goddaughter

and just like really special person in our life's birthday. And we were going over and we were moving out I was like a few days aged and I was like, oh gosh, what should I make? What should I bring? That's quite easy. And then I have the ingredients for because I was trying to kind of run down ingredients. I wasn't traveling, you know, cross country with like too many open bags of flour. Anyways, and I made the cookies. And I was like, why don't I make cookies more? They are so quick to make cookies. You're done in like 20 minutes. Chocolate chip cookies with a bit of CISO are about the most delicious thing in the whole wide world. And it's just a recommendation.

I really recommend making some chocolate chip cookies. Kids love it when I make cookies. In fact, everyone loves it when you make cookies. That's a fantastic win. The kitchen smells so good. You're so popular with everyone around you. It's such a good thing. I mean, it's a long time ago, but I read, and I did put this to practice, when you're trying to sell your house or you're trying to move flats,

you should always bake and make the place smell of cookies before they come in. It's like a nice psychological enhancement of what you're about to hopefully do. Our recommendation today, our first one from you lovely wellness coopers is from Kim. and she said, I've just finished watching the documentary Ground Swell. It's on Amazon Prime here in the States, and I immediately wanted to tell me about it if she hasn't seen it already because she shares similar anxieties about our world's environmental issues, and this documentary gave her hope.

I have to watch it. She said it's about regenerative farming and how it can and hopefully will save our planet. I cannot recommend it enough. Hope you're both doing amazingly, and thank you. you for the podcast. Yeah, so we've got to watch groundswell, guys. And then we have another recommendation that's from Jess, who is based in Bristol. So hi, Jess. And she said she's got a couple of racks for us. They're all about complex female relationships with meaty storylines, which I think you and your listeners will enjoy. Number one, imperfect women. I have seen that

actually on Apple TV. She says it's amazing. Number two, the five-star weekend. That's on now TV. And she also said pro tip, if you ever see a show produced by Reese Witherspoon's production company, Hello Sunshine. They tend to center around female stories, female writers and tend to be incredibly well made. So I always look at Reese's book club recommendations and then see what's been made into shows. I am verging on. I mean, I wouldn't say the word obsessed, but I'm a huge admirer and have such admiration for Reese Witherspoon. She is really quite groundbreaking in terms of what she does for females in the industry that she is in. So thank you so much for those.

So Ella, we also have a little follow-up question from Alice here. We do indeed. Okay, so Alice, read, this is really for you. She said, I love the podcast. I look forward to it every week. Thanks, Alice. Have a question on last week's episode. You recommended that babies under two should really avoid free sugars.

Does this include things like mashed bananas and mashed potato? Oh, no. And do you know, this is what's so, so interesting is. Ella and I were really just talking about the unfairly marketed children's snacks and things on the supermarket shelves that discreetly may contain sugar. But mashed bananas, the sugars are intrinsic because they're within the banana. You mash it down. That doesn't count in the same way because you're still eating a whole banana. You're just eating it mashed.

And the same for mashed sweet potatoes. So my answer there is, no, the natural sugars you get in those foods are perfectly normal. for your little one. In fact, what wonderful flavors to have. I mean, a mashed sweet potato, you can't really go wrong. I would be worried if you were then adding syrup to the mashed banana or sweet potato, or you were adding a little sprinkle of cinnamon sugar to a pancake with banana under the age of two. That's what I mean by extra sugars, not the banana itself that contains fiber, potassium,

amazing minerals, beta carotene and the sweet potato, you know, We want all those gorgeous nutrients. It's a good question. Don't will you worry about that? Okay, now what happens if we blitz the banana? So we're going to make the banana pancakes. You mentioned. You know the ones that are really popular with like oats, peanut butter, egg, flour banana. You've blitzed up your banana there. Where does that count? Because obviously it's been blitz. So you've popped it in a food processor, not a free sugar still. But I'm not worried about that. So it's the additional sugar in the diet under two. Technically, a free sugar? Technically, still no, because bananas are whole food. So I'm not so worried about that. It's not a puree banana. It's still you've blitzed it up into the pancake mix.

It's not undergone an extra extraction of sugars. You'll still have whole little lumps of banana that are going into that pancake. I think that's a level of detail. Most parents just don't need to go there. Don't need to go there. Don't need to worry. Don't worry. You're putting a whole banana into your pancake mix.

You're not adding white sugar or maple syrup or honey into the pancake mix. You are using a banana, which is a whole food, too sweeten for your under two. That is okay. I'm talking about sugars that come that are very disguised. Like you buy a shop-bought smoothie to give to your child. That is full of free sugars because of the concentration of everything in there. So I think it's a really good question, Ella, 100%. Because for parents today, you know, we're almost given too much information.

I mean, yes, when you blend things, they become free sugars. But what parents need to understand under the age of two is that you're doing a good thing by mashing a banana or a sweet potato to add to your child's diet. You know, adding a mashed banana or blended to a pancake is fine. What we're trying to say is no added sugars under the age of two as in no added syrup like maple syrup in that pancake. You don't need to saturate it with honey on top or Nutella chocolate spread. having the sweet potato is additional fibre. Same with the banana and nutrition. So to answer that very quickly, don't overthink it. Whole foods are fantastic. They just don't need extra sugar. And they don't really need birthday cake. Controversial, I know, but they don't need it under the

age of two. Oh gosh. I said it. Okay, that was so helpful. Right. Our next question today is, I love the podcast. I'm on maternity leave and it's been a treat listening to you on daily nap. I love that. She said this really follows on to the question we've just been discussing, I think, in lots of ways. I want to get your advice on how to tackle a bit of a family disagreement because I'm on a month-long holiday with my in-laws and they're very different ideas when it comes to feeding their children. They often feed their kids crystal chocolate sandwiches for breakfast and have a diet which is 90% ultra-process. My 2.5 year old, two and a half-year-old, sorry, will occasionally have crystal ice cream as a treat but isn't allowed these things most of the time. His diet's pretty good. consists mostly of whole food, something I feel very strongly about. The family of making jokes about how sad our diet is and that we don't give us some new treats and they've been sneaking things to him behind my bag. I don't want to break such good habits I've built over his life and I also don't want to cause any drama inadvertently insult their parenting by asking him to stop. How would you go about this? What a great question. Yeah, and I think Ella and I can definitely start by saying you're not

alone. And what's really sad, and actually I think this might be a little bit outside of our remit to a degree. So I've got a neuroscientist called Melanie, who's going to give us a voice note on the aspect of development and why these issues matter. But I think from Ler and I's perspective, and I can't speak for you, Ella, obviously, but I think you'd probably agree with me. If I said that we need to have honest, transparent chats with our in-laws and just kind of lay the line. and trust is very important when you're giving your children to someone else to look after them and actually a level of respect. This is also a very interesting cultural discussion because I know in some cultures in the world,

food and how you raise babies and all sorts of things, there are very ingrained family traditions that mother-in-laws, father-in-laws, grandparents believe should be upheld. But actually, we have more information today. ultimately you are the parent. You should be able to hand your child to a caregiver and say, can we focus on joyful nourishment? And you don't have to say those words. It sounds a bit too much. But just say, can we focus on a substantial breakfast that's something different from what you've suggested here with crisps and chocolate sandwiches, you know, and just have an honest conversation

because it's just going to impact your relationship as you move forward. It puts up walls and then family arguments as the child ages. You'll still have these disagreements around food if they're not addressed and spoken about. Ella, do you have anything else to add to that? Yeah, look, I think on a personal note, I certainly can. I'm sure lots of our listeners can. I don't know, Rhee, if you can. Like, I can totally relate to this.

Like, I'm really lucky. Lots of my family, like particularly, you know, my mum, they really kind of follow a very similar diet to us and you know I spend lots of time my brother he's got pretty similar age children to me and like they they're really raising their kids with with the same principles that we are and you know the children eat really similar things and would have similar outlooks on like snacks and treats and things like that and so we're incredibly fortunate with that but equally like with I really have kind of relate more like within a friend capacity how difficult this is because you

And I've certainly been in positions like this where what my children eat and what's allowed and not allowed or kind of okay. And the way that we are as a family is so different to that of people around us. And it's really difficult not to come across as judgmental to the way that other people are approaching parenting. And obviously, you know, you don't want to make, as you said, you don't want to make them feel bad. But equally, like, you don't want your children to have chocolate sandwiches. And like, you know, we've been with friends who are like the loveliest people in the world. like their children don't really eat fruits and vegetables and, you know, they have a kind of mostly UPF diet. And it's really difficult to not say things that make people feel like they're

passing any judgment, but equally not kind of completely compromise on what you believe in. And I do think it's incredibly difficult. And I think I really appreciate how challenging that is because I think it's one thing with other adults and it's really another thing because some people will say, well, my children would never eat that. And what you really want to say is no, they wouldn't because it's so different to the way that they eat. But if it was the only thing to eat and you did it completely differently over time, all things are relative. And there are specific reasons why some children won't, but that, you know, lots of children probably would start to tolerate these things. But it's so complicated. It's so nuanced. And I just don't go there.

Like I just say, I'm really sorry my children don't do that. But I don't, I don't talk about it because I find it almost impossible as a conversation. What you actually said in your comment here is they've been making jokes about how sad our diet is. So they've been actually quite disrespectful about how you're... Didn't that happen to you? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Because me, for sure. People are like, oh my God, your poor children eat your people. Like, my children are fine. They also have had magnums and salaros and Harry Bow. They've also had jelly sweets, wild things today and they've had chocolate. Yeah, they've had it all. Yeah, they had sticky toffee pudding in the pub yesterday with

ice cream. Yum. You know, I honestly just think sometimes it hurts our feelings more than anything else. And it's about how we manage our own reactions and our own feelings to remarks about what other people may think or say about us. But when it comes to your children's health, only you can make a difference there. And it really is, if it matters a lot to you, I would just encourage you to chat about it because nothing's going to be achieved unless you bring it up. if I'm being completely honest. Maybe it's difficult, as Ella said. As you can hear, we both don't have the solution 100%,

but I have had this discussion with my in-laws who raised their son 30 years ago. Times were different. They didn't know as much. Things were very different today. And we know more. Also, I will play this voice note from Melanie who researches neuroscience on this aspect

alongside nutrition and she'll give us a little bit of extra insight here. Hi everyone. I'm Melanie Wilkinson, a registered nutritionist with a further research degree in neuroscience. So I'm going to answer a question on whether food impacts a child's brain development. To be blunt, absolutely yes. And the way I get people to think about this is by really zooming out and asking what is the brain actually made of. We tend to think of food as fuel, you eat, you get energy done. But the brain is physically built from what we eat. So omega-3 fats, which are found in oily fish, nuts, seeds end up literally woven into the structure of the brain. Protein from eggs, lentils, fish, chicken gets turned into chemicals like serotonin and dopamine. So the chemicals are

running your child's mood, focus and motivation, quite literally started life on a plate, which if you think about it is really quite amazing. And in childhood especially, the brain is building and rewiring at a pace that will never match again. So the supply of those raw materials really, really count. We see it in the research as well. So a well-nourished child tend to do better on attention, learning and memory, while deficiencies, particularly iron, show the clearest links to poor outcomes. Now, people often ask me about the one nutrient, but none of them work alone. So if you take serotonin, our feel good chemical, you can eat all the protein in the world, but to actually make it, you need B vitamins, iron and magnesium all working alongside. Same with Amiga 3, which is vital for brain health,

but it can't enter or protect brain tissue on its own. It needs phospholipids to transport it, it needs antioxidants to shield it, both from other foods. So there's no one food for brain health. It really is about the overall pattern. And actually the word pattern is what I hope kind of reassures parents as well. What builds a brain is what happens at home day in, day out over years, not a week with the in-laws or treats on holiday. All any of us can do is control what's within our control.

So keep offering variety, keep the foundation steady. I know that's easier said than done. Plenty of children are fussy and some days it's beige food or. or nothing, and that is completely normal too. But it really is about the repeated exposure over time that does the work. Now, I won't pretend that things like sugar don't matter. I mean, childhood obesity is climbing. Tootha gay is still one of the biggest reasons young children end up in hospital.

And blood sugar swings absolutely affect how our children feel and behave. Now, a parent who cares about that is really doing their job. The trickier part is kind of grandparents sneaking sweets or cakes at parties, and you're well within your rights to have those conversations. but it is also a conversation about how the treat is handled. So sometimes when a grandparent kind of sneaks the sweet to a child, the sugar may be the smaller issue. Because when a food is handed over in secret,

kind of behind the mum's back, the lesser a child absorbs isn't yum. It's, this is forbidding, this is exciting, this is something you get away with. And the research on that is also clear. Restriction and secrecy make those foods more tempting, not less. That's what's shaping a child's relation with food for life. And it's not the biscuit, but it's also like the strong.

that's wrapped around it. So yes, child nutrition really matters, but cliche as it sounds, you really can only ever do your best. You can't control every mouthful, every party, every well-meaning relative. What builds a brain and a healthy relationship with food is the pattern you create at home over years. So please, please let go of the guilt. A relaxed parent offering good food most of the time will do far more for a child than an anxious one that is chasing perfection. Okay, honest question comes from Rachel who said, I should want to say I think you're fabulous women. Thanks for helping us stay sane in this crazy world. Thank you, Rachel. She said, Ella, I love coloring too. When my daughter was young, we decorated her bedroom with the wallpaper you could color in. We spent time before bed chatting and coloring in together. I was sad when it went and she's 20 now. That is so cool. I want to look up that. Anyway, it's cool. She has a question for you, Ray. Re, is there a way of roughly calculating my daily intake of fiber without using any apps, etc? I'm just interested to see how much I'm having. I have mostly home-cooked meals, the occasional treat.

I've heard you say a lot that people don't get enough fibre. I'm not fixated about it. I eat plenty of lovely veg from my allotment lover, but I like to do what I can to keep as healthy as I can. Yeah, you can roughly estimate it. I think it's the best way to do it, to be honest. So you want to be aiming for 30 grams a day. Like you said, you don't need to fixate on it.

I just think a nice way is to count the plant points as well, the 30 different plants a week and try and focus on that. But if you visualize like a fist of your hand, we used to do this for carbohydrate portions at university, a fist of hands of veg. That's roughly going to be up to five grams of fibre already. So if you had two portions of vegetables at your dinner, you're easily having six to ten grams of fiber. So a rough estimate is just to fill your hand size portions at each plate, lunch and dinner, or breakfast with oats or whatever cereal it may be. And that's a rough estimation of getting around five grams of fiber. or just knowing one piece of fruits

giving you a little boost of two to five grams if you eat the skin on, of course, that's helpful. I know raspberries are one of the most abundant. We've still got BlackBrees. I'm looking out my window now, I think several weeks after mentioning the BlackBree season. So all these different things are really, really helpful. And then the classics, you don't even need to worry about calculating them.

Just chuck in those beans. We have Bean Mania on Monday. We are discussing the trends of beans and pulses. easily up to eight grams in a serving, you know, one can you can get up to 20 grams and portion wise you are doing wonderful things by just adding always food. So if you're building a generically healthy plate with rice and make it whole grain instead of white, then you know already that you're getting three to five grams of fibre. So for every plant, think I'm getting three to five grams of fibre and you can add that up to 30 across the day. I just think it's a good estimate, Ella,

and just having like a bowl of porridge in the morning, you know, you can get up to 15 grams if you add a banana, some oats, some nuts, nut butter or something. Honestly, 30 grams is a guide. It's just a scientific number from the research. It's important, very important, but it sounds like you're already on to a winner

and you're doing a great job. I would say, I have said this before on other things, but if you, I'm so agree with you with staying off the apps, I don't think obsessively counting things unless there's a medical need to do so, is constructive for anyone's well-being personally. I think it creates an obsession or has the propensity to create an obsession

and to kind of suck the joy out of it. But as a general steer, like, and I'm talking about very general, and like I will do this sometimes with my children, are like roughly pop in everything they've eaten, not remembering like every snack, but like roughly the kind of core meals they've had over a few days. You put it into chat GPT or Claude,

and you like give me the rough nutritional like do you think we're really missing anything here and i think that can be incredibly helpful as i said it's not about like weighing it out and saying like i had you know 10 grams of this and 27 grams of that it's just like my core meals this week have been x y z you know my core snacks have been x y z roughly how would this shake out because as you said whether you've had like 29 grams of fiber or 33 grams of fiber isn't the issue here. It's like have you roughly had 30? Like are you roughly getting a good amount of calcium? Are you roughly getting a good amount of iron?

Are you roughly getting a good amount of protein? So it doesn't need to be like obsessive and precise. But I think that can be and if you're curious, I think that can be quite a helpful exercise every now and again. A normal week for you. Write it all down. Pop it in there. And it can give you quite a helpful outlay of like call wins and like any areas you might want to add on to.

I completely agree. And it moves us on to a question that flows perfectly from that approach, which is from Elsa. So thank you for sending this Elsa. She wants to know about plant points. Do they work like getting your five a day? Which I think, Ella, is an area of confusion. I really genuinely think working that out is something that isn't straightforward for people.

where you have to, she said, I assume, have a certain portion size of an item to count, or is it just the diversity of 30 plants in your diets? She was just wondering because she had a salad from M&S that says on the pack, you know, it's got 35 plants in it, and she thought that was pretty cool. Yeah, this is a very confusing topic, isn't it? And really you'll be able to kind of break it down for us.

But plant points are very different to five a day in the sense of just an amount counts as a plant point, whereas a five a day generally has a gramage attached to it. Yeah, 100%. And it's like a drizzle of olive oil can even count as a quarter of a point, of a plant point. So it's unlearning this necessity to count numbers and calculate things that we've had ingrained in us

from calorie counting for years and just try and think about what can I add in as a really positive nutritional approach. So plant points are more about what I've, would really call a positive approach to nutritional diversity like you've written, which says, oh, today I started breakfast. I had some oats, but I added a sprinkle of cinnamon, which is also like a bit of a point of a plant point. I added the banana. I added some nut butter. Wow, I've got three or four plant points in my breakfast without even really trying. Whereas five a day,

one portion is 80 grams of banana. I mean, who has time to wear the average banana, but this is so weird that I know this is 110 grams. I don't know why I know that. And like I said, almonds, 28 grams of almonds is a portion. But, you know, I don't think we need to know that. I do like the plant point approach. Whereas just three almonds would count as a plant point. So I think that's a really nice difference. Or if you've had half a banana in your smoothie, you know, you've got some frozen banana, for example, and you've got half, that would count as a plant point. I like plant I like plant works because I feel like it's really positive and like everything counts, which I like. I think we all need a bit of that in our life.

Can you imagine how heavy that M&S salad would be if you had to have 35 portions of fruit or veg, weighed out at 80 grand per individual veg to make up that actual salad? It would be mohousive. You'd be chewing for a lifetime. It's just not practical. I love plant points. And, you know, those 35 plant points probably do count every herb and spice under the sun and all that different stuff, but that's what's beneficial for your gut microbes. And I think that's a really healthy

approach psychologically and nutritionally speaking to your diet. I love it. Okay, our next question comes from Rosie, who's in Northumberland. Hi, Rosie. Thinking about traveling, it might be helpful for lots of us scoopers to get your ideas on the best snacks and food items to take on a holiday. I'm really excited to take my three-year-old and my five-year-old to Disney, Florida and other incredible parks, but I am dreading in capital letters the food choices we're going to have to make over there. She said, I don't want to be making a big deal out of all the UP apps on offer, but if I can pack a few healthy choices, I'll feel more comfortable. Any suggestions much appreciated? It's my dream to go to Disney World Florida, Ella. It's on my bucket list. Honestly, I...

Is it bad if I say it's my idea of how? No, no. I'm sure it's lots of people's idea of how listening. No, no, judgment at all. I just think you've got the experience of Disney Paris, which is not Disney, Florida. I just think they're two different worlds. is just like welcoming, warm, can't do enough to help you. Customer service, five-star Disney vibes. Paris was not quite the same situation. It's most like grumpy, overpriced, like, a place I've ever been where you wait an hour for a three-minute ride that's 30 years old. Like, I think Disneyland Paris is the worst place I've ever been. I said it. I just think the value for money is horrific, like appalling. The food was inedible. Like, I just felt they were,

fleecing people for everything they were worth. Yep, and I would also agree with you on that as a hardcore Disney fan. It's not nothing to do with the podcast, but honestly, I couldn't recommend it less if I tried. I thought it was, yeah, awful. I'll only upset some hardcore Disney fans that are listening, but I actually agree with you, Ella, and I am a hardcore Disney fan, and Florida is genuinely magical and where the magic happens. So first of all, I'm absolutely buzzing for you, but a completely related. to the conundrum of eating in a different country.

What I will say is that in America, they do tend to have quite big breakfast buffets and offerings. And I am that person, please don't judge me on this, but I'm sure we all do it, but don't talk about it. I make sandwiches from the breakfast buffet, and I take pieces of fruit, and I take things from the breakfast buffet. I put them in my handbag.

My husband gets the napkin, and I make the sandwich, and then we hide it under and put it in our back and off we go. Ria, I think everyone does it. Thank you. I hope everyone, please let us know. Please share with me and make me feel better about these decisions I've made in life over the years because takeaway sandwiches and fruit save you with those options throughout the day as well.

If you are at buffets, you have a little bit more choice, but let's be honest, sometimes you just have to accept that that's the food scenario you're in. Restaurants over there will be a bit more pricey, but definitely. easier to tweak menus and there are always some sorts of options. I actually find cultural influences are better choices. So if you're at a theme park and you go for a Caribbean-style restaurant where you're going to get these incredible like rice dishes with mango and peas and beans and different things within it, you can get different choices alongside a jerk chicken or whatever the classic combinations are rather than your burger joint, which I think

most people associate. I'm sorry, America, but most people over here in the UK think, American food. Am I wrong? Raka ribs or cheeseburger, Ella, what do you think? I think so. Sorry, America. I know you are more than that. But then just like the UK, people think for fish and chips. Honestly, in your suitcase, I would also pack tons of Ella bars is what I always have in my suitcase, Ella. I've always got some Ella bars. Yeah, exactly, things like that, which I have on hand. I have to say, though, like, I kind of take the approach when we're on holiday. I'm like, whatever works. because when we're at home, we eat really well, the kids eat really well. And so when we are away, I kind of take the view of like make life easy.

I don't want to be arguing with you all day when that's what's in front of you all day. So I am super relaxed about what they eat on holiday. But two weeks is a long time. Like most people go to America, not just for three or four days because it's so far. They have to be out there for quite a long time, right? Yeah, I actually just take that view on holiday in general. You do it for two weeks. I don't know if I could have two weeks.

I mean, look, I encourage them to eat through. And I notice as well, like, they start to want it too. But what I mean is, like, I just find when we're at home and things are in my control, you know, I'm really hot on, like, quinoa lunch. And when we're out and about, I am much more relaxed because it's really tiresome to spend all day saying no. No, no, you're completely right. When you're in the parks, that's kind of the attitude, I think you predominantly have to have.

Yeah. Yeah, or when you're in a hotel and like there's a buffet and there's donuts in the buffet, like, always saying no. But, you know, we'll obviously encourage fruit and, and, you know, get some yoga with it and things. But, like, there's a tipping point, isn't it? Where it's just not fun when all you do is say no. Oh, gosh, yeah. I mean, it's impossible as a parent to do as well. And literally, it is impossible.

Which leads us on to an anonymous question, actually, which is also linked to the different demands and identification around food. So we have a long time listener since the beginning, first time caller all the way from Australia. I love the podcast. It's so informative, but she also finds it soothing to listen to. So if you please keep this question anonymous, I'd be very much appreciative. That's absolutely fine. My question's about eating habits. I'm a vegetarian and have been for about 15 years. And I know that I eat an otherwise healthy diet, lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, lots of fiber. an occasional sweet tree and very little to no UPs and I take supplements as advised by her GP.

However, my job is demanding. I'm a lawyer. I work 12 to 14 hours per day and generally get five to six hours sleep. I don't eat much during the day at all. I don't have any appetite for most of the morning. I'll come home in for the evening and have dinner around 6.37.30 p.m. and then a bowl of oats with protein powder nut butter yogurt, etc. Later in the evening, that's when she has that yogurt bowl. I eat while I work so I get focused on my work and then she doesn't eat because she's so focused on the work. And I think essentially she said I find sometimes that in the morning I can have a bit of digested discomfort. I'm sometimes, but not always. I'm just not sure if there is something that I'm doing wrong here. Why am I such a slow eater and why is my appetite

all over the place help, Ella? I mean, I'm sure with these types of working hours, so many people can relate to this. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, Rie? And I'm sure. you'll have lots of information this and seen this a lot in clinic over time that generally speaking, I can only assume and I don't want to assume over assume for you, but being a lawyer and working those really long hours, stress probably comes into play for you. And lots of people find stress impacts their appetite. And, you know, I'm a stress eater. Like if I'm stressed and there's sweets, like give me all the sweets. But, you know, I've got friends. my husband, you know, if they're stress, they just don't eat. They don't have an appetite.

And I'm sure, as I said, Rhea, I'm sure you see that quite a lot, the impact the stress has on our digestive system and may well, not necessarily, but may well be the reason that you feel your appetites all over the place. Oh, 100%. And, you know, our digestive system doesn't operate independently of the rest of our lives. So the stress, our circadian rhythm of our gut bugs, because they have that, they like to be aligned, which is why when people are jet lagged or they across time zones, you notice differences in digestion, you know, time between meals. All these things can influence our appetite and our signaling, our ghrelin and leptone hormones that tell us when we're hungry and we're full.

So essentially, you're having very little food for much of the day. That in itself isn't ideal. And I understand why, but we'll get into that. You're having very little. And then you're concentrating like the largest proportion into the evening. And it doesn't make it wrong. but that is probably contributing to the digestive discomfort. And that's what we see.

We see, do you know, the advice on the NHS website to give you a little bit of a useful fact is that if you experience IBS, the worst thing you can do is fasting. And that's because you restrict for a period of time and then suddenly introducing food, your digestion actually finds it quite difficult to cope. And what I wouldn't suddenly tell someone to do that has no morning appetite is to sit down and have a massive bowl of porridge or like a huge breakfast at seven. if that's not something you've been used to. We need to retrain your body and your signaling.

So without seeing you in clinic, I think three things for anyone that can relate to this type of vibe. You eat late into the evening because you're at home and your relaxed environment. It's comfortable. It makes perfect sense. The day is busy and you're just focused and you want to crack on. Try these things.

So first of all, create what I call eating anchors. So don't wait until you feel hungry. You need to come out of a schedule that fits in your work diary. And this is when intuitive eating and approaches just don't work with people that are lawyers a lot of the time because you need to start retraining your signals in your body and your gut bugs to getting used to specific times of eating. And everyone's unique. But for instance, even if it's 11 o'clock, you always have a sort of breakfast. And at 3 o'clock, you always have a sort of lunch.

It doesn't matter if it's not 12 or 1 or whatever traditional time other people have, if that's something. your time, that is your time. And, Re, presumably, like, even if you're not starving, it doesn't need to be a huge lunch, even if you went and got, like, some nice hummus and some nice, like, seeded crackers and an apple, great. Just start introducing, like, regular eating with kind of nutritionally-ish balanced elements. It takes time to build up to larger meals. A full meal. Yeah, 100%. You want to start off slow with things you enjoy. Otherwise, you're not really incentivised. or making like for the week ahead a batch of kind of overnight oats or like cheer pudding type things and then you could take it to your desk with you so even if you're not hungry in the morning when you wake up then as you said come 11 o'clock you've got a five minute break or window and you could sit down and you could eat that you'll have to do that sunday with your working hours as i can see from here and then at least monday tuesday wednesday you're covered with an 11 o'clock pot i completely agree ella and then number two is experiment with that one meal you're able to prep so like ella said that's when the variety comes in, that's when you're able to try different things for that one time of that one prepable meal, be it yogurt and fruit in one of the pots, another can be overnight oats, you know, something that your appetite and digestion can definitely tolerate.

And then number three is just try and redistribute some of that evening nutrition. So what I would say is that, you know, if you're having a substantial fiber-rich bowl relatively closed to bed after dinner, we've actually spoke on months. about the importance of time before we sleep again with food, try and switch that up for the morning and try and redistribute different types of foods you're having. So maybe even just a soup that you've brought that you're able to have in the evening with a nice bit of bread or something rather than the beans and the pulses and all those other sorts of things. I know we wax lyrical about fibre on here all the time, but you're in a different scenario where we're building you up and try and implement some food boundaries. Tech, squire.

rolling. Just working as a lawyer on an incredibly intense case and staring at your computer while you're eating is not doing any favours for your digestive discomfort. There's a few things. There's positive things. Your food anchors that you can try. So to recap the time of day, try little and often. Experiment with the one meal you're able to actually prep, redistribute how heavy the evening is across the day and food boundaries of tech. Yeah. And I think it's really normal for people when they're really stressed and they're very busy at work to essentially forget to eat and then suddenly pack it all in at once. I've definitely got friends and family who do the same thing. And I would say again, the difference they feel in managing their stress

and their kind of general energy of almost making themselves have these little breaks throughout the day, even just having trail mix, you know, to nibble on and things like that. It's really substantial the positive benefit of starting to have these, you know, little moments of the day where you're eating something that's nourishing. I completely agree. Ignore what social media feeds are saying these people that get up in the morning, do an hour walk, and then they have time to do this,

and then they go home and they cook this huge plate of delicious XYZ, and that's what they're having. Not many people live those lives, and I don't think comparing. And the fact you eat slow isn't a bad thing at all. It's just what you're eating. Love that. Okay, I'll find a question today.

It comes from Erin, who has said she was very interested in the four burners theory that we talked about recently. And it got me thinking that I want to prepare nourishing healthy food, but I don't want it to be at the expense of quality time with my family. I don't want to prioritize the health burner so much that I'm missing out on the family burner, which I think people relate to whether it's family or whether it's hobbies or whether it's friends or exercise or running, you know, whatever it is you enjoy in your life. I'm finding sometimes I'm spending so much my time when I'm at home cooking these

amazing foods, but I'm consistently missing out playing with my children. And again, as I said, that might be all sorts of other things for many of the rest of us. I think it's a very relatable question. Are there foods you think that the store-bought versions are, say, 80% as good as the home-cooked versions. So when considering the bigger picture, it's better just to buy them. I love that question. I think that's such a good question from Erin. I also think it links to what we chaste about on Monday that not all store-bought items and UPF foods are bad.

And this is when they have a place. Absolutely. I mean, you can use the tomato pasta sauce jar. I'll chuck it in with the whole grain pasta and top it up with beans and pulses. And that saved you all the time standing by a simmering hot stove with making a tomato sauce. And I always think, like, I often say this to myself as well. Like, sometimes the temptation is we need to make it really complicated. And like, I don't know, last night, for example, for the kids, I was knackered.

It's been so much going on. And I was like, you know what? I had made some bread, which, okay, you have to make the bread. But like, I like making bread. I made some bread. So they had toast. They had one toast. with avocado that I sprinkled hemp seeds on the top. They had another toes, which was peanut

butter, sprinkle hemp seeds on the top. I had a peach. They had some slices of peach. And I had some apple and I had a little bit of almond butter on top of that. I reckon it took me sub five minutes. There was absolutely no washing up just about one chopping board. They ate the whole thing. And I was like, this is great. The other night again, I was cleaning out the cupboards. We were at the end. I had some whole milk and they had a hot chocolate with dark chocolate and whole milk. I had some pretzels, had some raspberries, I had some nice crackers with peanut butter on. They had a smorgasbord of that kind of thing. And it was like, you know what? They've got fat. They've got some protein. They've got fiber. Same like, you know, just a jar of

lentils, tomato sauce, whole wheat pasta. I think the temptation is to like always feel we need to do something, as you said, Erin, like amazing, whether that's for ourselves or our families. But actually like, consistent good enough is sometimes the best way to do things. I mean, we just did cheese on toast and baked beans last night. I felt so sick. I could barely open the fridge door. And we had some cucumber sticks on the side, like Ella side. Perfect.

And this is Ella of Deliciousty Ella telling you that this is what she did. And I'm a nutritionist and I gave my kids cheese on toast and beans. And that is perfectly acceptable. Yeah, my children eat so many, like, cheese to toasties. And then I put pesto. I buy things like I buy. I buy hummus, for example. you know, again, like I like making hummus.

Sometimes I make hummers. My mum came for lunch on Saturdays. So I made a nice lunch and I made a delicious miso hummus. It was really easy. But on a day-to-day basis, I often buy hummus. I buy pasto. Again, sometimes I make pasta. You know, it's great.

But like, I don't know, last a couple of nights ago, I made green pancakes for the kids, which they really like, where I had leftover peas and adamame. And I blitz those with some leftover, either chickpeas or white beans, flour and egg. and Pesto. I'm not going to make Pesto for that. And that's a great five-minute supper. I buy wraps. I buy nut butter. You know, yes, I can make granola. I often buy granola. I bought

some this morning, has so many different nuts in and seeds, etc. that they'll eat. I buy veggie burgers. I buy little falafels, curry paste, tomato sauces, like chili oils, all of it. Save the cooking for days when it gets to be more enjoyable and less stress-free and just try and prioritising those sacred moments. I completely agree, Ella. I feel actually like this podcast has been very grounding today. I feel like it's really brought us back to the reality of managing. I mean, September is here now. It's coming. This is the start of it all. It's a busy month. A busy month. Managing our working hours and our work life balance, managing the dynamics if you have a family, managing all the myths and blooming misconceptions on socials that we have to live and

breathe a certain way and also other people's expectations and judgments about what we do. It really is up to us. Yeah, it really is. And I also really like, you know, remember, like, good enough is great. You don't have to do things perfectly. You really, really don't. It's just not realistic for the vast majority of people, but just little wins where you get them, that consistency, that adds up to a nourishing diet, so much more than nailing one perfect meal. I hope you've enjoyed today's episode. I feel Ella and I have needed it. I've massively needed your feedback, everybody.

Thank you. I love the wellness group so much. Ella's definitely kept me on my memorable date and time schedule at the moment because I'm feeling overwhelmed with the amount I've got to fit in. Ella, Monday is going to be an epic show. We are inundated with headlines. Oh my gosh, they're almost impossible to sort through there so many, but we're going to be talking about the impact of late night snacking

on our brain health, which is interesting, an interesting new study, small scale, but still interesting about what happened going vegan for a month in terms of aging, the impact of just one soda a day on stomach cancer, we're going to be looking at a new trend called ferretin face and so much more. There is never-ending number of headlines.

I forgot, and this is epically huge, but I just want to say, well done to all the athletes that represent Team GP in the European Athletics Championships. Wow, Ella. Wow, I should have said it at the beginning of the episode. I was also just reading these headlines about Keely Hodgkinson, about Asher Smith, there's so many Amy Hunt,

all of our teams winning gold medals and beating personal bests. I found it inspiring. If any of you need to pick me up, the European Athletics, go and have a deep dive. watching that clip of the women's relay, Wingold, I was on the edge of my seat. I was so happy. Yeah, I was going to say so many cool young women. I totally, totally agree. Then did you also see the Robot Olympics in China? Because that is so weird. Also freaky of what's coming into the world. But yeah, and then they can't stop. So they just run into a wall and then implode. It's so weird.

Anyway, if you want to see something weird, futuristic, dystopian, if you want to make yourself feel weird about the world, go and watch the of our Olympics. I'm not sure why I needed to add in a low note after your high, but it is interesting. It's a last year. Let's keep celebrating what we as humans can do. Thank you for tuning into the World of Scoop.