The Wellness Scoop - Protein, Skin Food, and the Battle Against Birthday Cake

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

From protein pots flying off supermarket shelves to Scotland banning birthday cakes, this week we’re diving into the trends and headlines shaping the wellness world. How much protein do you really need? Is BMI an outdated measure of health? And what’s behind the viral “Oat-zempic” and chia water crazes? We’ll also take a closer look at the man spending $2 million a year on anti-ageing protocols—are his extreme habits the future of wellness? Plus, Dr Thivi joins us to explore the connection between diet and glowing skin, with practical advice you can trust. Recommendations This Week: School of Greatness Podcast with Dr Rangan Chatterjee: How To Escape The Prison Of Your Mind & Reinvent Your Life In 2025 – A refreshing take on mindset and behaviour change. Well Fed by James Collier and Yoga Happy by Hannah Barrett – Inspiring reads for food and mindfulness. Netflix Pick: “Don’t Die: The Man Who Wants to Live Forever” – A fascinating deep dive into the extremes of the anti-ageing movement. Johann Hari Magic Pill – the pros and cons of Ozempic (his interview on Diary of a CEO Podcast also provides an overview) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh, hi there! I'm Norma, the unofficial mayor of the Town of Destiny. Speaking of, FanDuel's Kick of Destiny 3 is happening live Super Bowl Sunday. You should watch. It's gonna be a hoot! While you're at it, download FanDuel, North America's number one sportsbook. You can bet on touchdowns, turnovers, heck, even total kicker points, don't you know? Anywho, enjoy your podcast or whatnot. Please play responsibly. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to connectsontario.ca.

Welcome to the Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. We are your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. So that's why we've created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal. And I'm so excited for this episode. I couldn't actually sleep last night, which I'm not sure if that's just really sad. But I just loved last week. And before we get started today I think we both wanted to just say

the most enormous thank you to everybody who tuned in and everybody who took the time to share feedback with us to share on their socials to leave a comment it honestly makes the world of difference when you do share it with friends share it it online, you subscribe, you rate us, maybe even five stars if you're feeling generous today. But honestly, it sounds simple, but it just makes the world of difference to spreading our message. So just the most enormous thank you. And also, I think as we wrapped up with last week, we were both really nervous, weren't we? Oh my gosh, terrified. I mean, the anxiety we had the day after we launched, we thought, oh my goodness, no one's going to listen.

Yeah, it's because it's so personal and it felt really vulnerable putting those opinions out there. And I think we have more opinions to share today. But you gave us a lot of confidence in doing that and a huge amount of reassurance. So just a massive, massive thank you. A huge thank you. It's been unbelievable. So what is coming up on today's show, Ella? We've got protein.

Need we say any more? New report from the Lancet Commission, which calls for a global shake up of the obesity diagnosis. The banning of birthday cake. Wellness trends like chia water and oat Zen pick. Yep. Just wait for that. And our guest, Dr. Thithi, about skin health. And can we eat our way to glowing skin? And this morning at 6am I made Rhi some oat Zenpick and Sky said, oh mummy, what's that? It looks disgusting. So she's got that to look forward to later. So nice to see you. What have you been up to this week? Oh goodness, Ella. It's been a crazy week.

Sleep deprivation. You know, we're going through with my youngest the whole nap. Do we cut it? Do we keep it? What do we do? All of that stress. Then actually work-wise, there's some really big, exciting things that happened this week. The Association for Nutrition, so my governing body, we have finally got the petition to protect the title of nutritionist with the Privy Council, which is huge. It was there in COVID and then COVID happened. It got knocked back. So to everyone listening, this means finally, if this goes through, and I really hope it does, we can cut out all the people pretending to be nutritionists, calling themselves nutritionists on social media. And you'll actually know for sure.

And I finished shooting something really exciting this week, which I can't share until a few weeks time. That's my week. How about you? But we'll have a big reveal for it on the podcast. Good. Honestly, I've been pretty obsessed with the podcast and like obsessively checking people's comments and what they're saying. But it has been a bang the first couple of weeks of the year. It's a really interesting new learning curve because we've got Delicious Yellow and then we also have Plants, which is really like a startup business. And now they're separate companies and Plants has a new office. And then we're doing the podcast as well.

So I'm just learning to divide my time evenly and equally between all three and try and be in many different places at once. So it felt a bit overwhelmed. But this has been the thing that I've been really looking forward to. And the other thing I did on the back of last week was I watched the documentary that Maya recommended, Don't Die, The Man Who Wants to Live Forever, which for anyone who didn't listen last week is the Netflix show about Brian Johnson, who is really well known. I think there's a lot of press about him. He's 47 and he is trying and succeeding in aging backwards. So just to give you, I know you haven't watched it. No, I did. Oh, you have. I did. I didn't tell you. I did.

I've made some notes. Yeah, we have a lot to talk about. We have a lot. OK, so if you haven't watched it yet, let me just tell you what he does. So it starts with saying as a species, as in as humans, we accept our inevitable decline, decay and death. And I would say I accept that that's what happens, hopefully, into old age. But he says he doesn't believe that we should accept that and instead is building an algorithm for an anti-aging protocol, which he calls the blueprint protocol. So you see what he does in a day. And it's a long list. I'm not including absolutely everything, but he wakes up at 4.30 in the morning, takes 54 pills with a green juice while wearing an electrode in his ear to stimulate his parasympathetic nervous system. Then he pops a cap on his head for

hair growth. He goes straight into red light therapy, pops some electrodes to stimulate his abdomen. I'm thinking that's six pack. Then he eats his last meal at 11 in the morning with 34 more pills. He also goes to the bed at the exact same time every single day without fail. There's some intergenerational sharing of blood plasma between him, his father and his son. And he's also trialing using drugs that are used to suppress the immune system in organ transplants, because there is some evidence that that might be beneficial to aging. I actually watched it on my own because Matt was working late and he came up and he said well what does he do maybe we should do that. I went through that list and was like no I'd rather die. Do you have two million a year? Yeah two million dollars a year but also

you know it's very difficult and he said that that in the documentary is very difficult to date, for example, because, you know, you can't go out for dinner, for example, because last meal's at 11 in the morning. And it's very, very regimented. But I think it was just thought provoking watching it. First of all, it is important to say it's working. So he's reversed his age, his biological age by 5.1 years in the last two years. And he is now aging just eight months for every 12 months he lives. So it is, scientifically speaking, the protocol is working, which is very interesting. But there's two thoughts I wanted to just share that I had on it, which I think is interesting. And you don't need to watch the documentary, I don't think, to follow along with it. But

they talk a bit about how difficult it is to eat well, you know, which is obviously something we talk a lot about in the world today. It's an overwhelming amount of fast food, healthy choices are difficult to come by. And he really struggled before this. He's very, very successful entrepreneur, very, very successful company, multimillionaire, but he, by all accounts, was deeply unhappy, I think, at points suicidal in that. And he decided that he couldn't live like that anymore. So he gave up his church and was brought up in a very religious Mormon background. He divorced his wife and he sold his business. And it read to me, and this is just my personal interpretation, that he wanted to escape his mind and control himself. And this very regimented wellness routine is his way of getting

control back of his life. Now, obviously, he's doing that in the most extreme way anybody ever could. But I do think it's a nod to this dark side of wellness that I think people have talked about a lot. And, you know, we've seen a lot over the last 10 years or so where a pursuit of healthier life takes over your life and it becomes, it does become quite dark and quite controlling and it detracts a lot for a lot of people. And I think that's something we've seen with orthorexia and the more kind of compulsive disorders that can come up around this real fixation on wellness and how we treat our bodies. That is just found that really thought provoking. And I didn't think

he was shying away from that and that desire for control. But equally, I think whilst most people aren't going as far as him, I do think it's an interesting nod to that darker side. It's a coping strategy. He mentioned something. I was just looking at my notes when you said that because I thought, goodness, I remember about his son. You know, he suddenly got his son back from leaving the church. But it was the bit where he said, you know, everybody has a problem with either TV, alcohol, social media, porn, addictions, food. And he said, I want to be free from all of that. But actually, what he's done on the flip side is just become all consumed in his pursuit of youth, which is his coping strategy. He might have been able to block out all the other bits.

But what was quite disturbing as well was the, I don't know, what did you think about the commercialization of it? It's fascinating. So he's now selling. So basically, look it it's fascinating so he's now selling so basically look it's great content we're talking about it now it's fascinating and it's thought-provoking and he's started tiktok and instagram and his videos are getting millions and millions of views so and he's doing huge amounts of pr and publicity and you see him on loads the biggest podcasts and obviously his netflix documentary he's on the times you you know, big, big publications everywhere. So he's creating this brand around it, love it or loathe it, you know, but it's definitely creating conversation. And now he's selling blueprint protocol goods and services

like his 40-pound longevity olive oil. And I was really trying to get to the bottom of this, like is this genuinely different to a different olive oil? It's rich in polyphenols, but obviously so is other good quality olive oil so we don't think there were any special properties in there so it is interesting because it's again to me that was the two things I wrote down is the dark side of wellness that it feels like it represents and then it's also this commercializing of the extreme and they actually on the video not the video the program they showed him drinking the

olive oil. So that's really interesting. Actually, the research we have on olive oil in the Mediterranean diet is not drinking it solo. The research we have from consumption of these monounsaturated fatty acids that you get in olives, which are really good for your heart health. It comes when it's combined with other properties of food. And it's kind of like a two way approach. You know, it helps you absorb vitamins and minerals when you have it with the oil so for him to be downing it essentially and encouraging people to just drink a shot I think that's not responsible that's also interesting though because I do see it quite often on social media I'm sure our listeners have of people doing a shot of olive oil first thing in the morning but what you're

saying is the research I think everyone's probably quite aware of that, that so much research, olive oil is so, so, so good for us. But it's when it's as part of a meal because it's helping us absorb a lot of the other great properties. And it's still fat. Yes, it's healthy fat and we should have higher ratios of it. But we don't know what someone's individual diet is like. So it's not going to help everybody because we don't know what your basic diet and lifestyle is like in the first place. I do think one positive thing from his two million spend a year is that it's giving scientists actual data, like actual research, which that's pretty cool. Absolutely. And all this research, all this data feels very, very topical. I mean, even last time when we finished recording on my way home, I read a few articles talking about

some Israeli researchers at the Weizmann Institute of Science who say they are closer than ever to developing an anti-aging vaccine, which is fascinating. There is so much to talk about. We could probably do a whole episode on anti-aging and the conversation around it. So not to go into too much detail, but just food for thought as we talk about this focus that seems to be happening on this space. They said, the potential rejuvenation of the immune system could help revitalize brain function with the ultimate ambitious goal of developing an

anti-aging immune therapy. So as we age, there can be an imbalance in the number of immune cells we produce, which can lead to an increase in inflammation and rise in the number of so-called zombie cells that linger in our bodies that should have died and been cleared away. So these scientists are researching ways that we could boost these immune cells to support the brain. And in doing that, create some kind of vaccine that would work against aging, which is fascinating. And I think there's a whole episode for us to do on the conversation around anti-aging and where we stand on that whole narrative. But clearly, there is a big focus in wellness, in health, in the kind of pharmaceutical industry on how do we stop ourselves from aging. There's one thing he said, the Brian guy on the Jay Shetty podcast,

and he said in the 25th century, people will be like, why on earth were they not trying to not age? So this vaccine and the development of it perhaps is our future in hundreds of years and it scares the living daylights out of me it is terrifying but it's also the interesting narrative around anti-aging and aging being just such a bad thing and don't get me wrong i think really focusing on positive aging where you get more good years and you're increasing that health span where you feel well and able to do as much as you can that feels brilliant and something certainly I would personally want to pursue in my life just to get the most of every year that I have but I'm so

struck also by what privilege it is to age. Honestly it makes my head want to explode just thinking about all the nuances and the ins and outs the deeper you know the underlying dark side like you said of this whole discussion almost like ai and robots and now we're trying to become immortal like a vampire i don't know i know i know we're talking about at home and matt says well maybe when i'm older and i die you just have like an ai version of me that can live forever i just sit at dinner like talking he was like but AI will know my mind I was like but it won't be you you have no soul no yes you've lost your soul um Ella let's do our recommendations okay I've got a nice quick one this week okay which I think is interesting actually in light of that conversation it's just a really positive thing for anyone to

listen to which is a podcast I've been listening to over the last couple of days on the School of Greatness with Dr. Chatterjee. And it's called How to Escape the Prison of Your Mind and Reinvent Your Life in 2025. And it just feels really positive and really refreshing. And if anyone wants a nice boost after they listen to this, I highly recommend. I think there were two reminders for me from it. First of all, there is so much information available today. There are so many experts and so many of these experts are so extraordinarily, brilliantly qualified and knowledgeable, but they don't, as you always remind me, share the same opinions because there's pros and cons on everything.

And nutrition is a fluid science. We know, we don't know everything. And so it can be very difficult when you are digesting this influx of information as who to listen to, because these two people potentially are both qualified in the same field and both very well respected, but have different opinions on something. And what he was saying is that in this world of information overload,

we're stopping trusting ourselves and we're losing our intuition and just how important that is to be inspired, but then come back to yourself and how you feel. And I just thought that was a really nice reminder. I think that ability to listen to your body and find that self-care is so important. And in that he was talking for him a lot. And it's a nice reminder for me about the importance of solitude and it's hard to find it might be three minutes but actually and again in the busy world it's hard to know yourself if you never take a few minutes and I know like I always try and wake up I say try but make a good effort waking up half an hour 45 minutes before the kids have 10 minutes of meditation or breath work a quiet coffee and it is that moment I do find without it I feel like a headless chicken

yeah because then you're running with your tail anyway it's just awful if you wake up without without the kids it's just like you have to have that space I really took on board what you said last week about reading and so many people did looking in the comments and it actually inspired me to have your comments and your feedback saying I did it I read a book and I had two books that had been sat by the side of my bedside table for ages. And I actually wrote forwards for these books because I'd had a read through and I thought, I'm going to go back to this now. And I learned two things. Tell me. So the first one was that in yoga. So I read Hannah Barrett's new book, Yoga Happy, that vinyasa, because you're a yoga teacher, you'll know, isn't actually flow.

It means something like new beginnings or it's actually a state. How would you describe it? Well, I think it's this move away again, like the asana practice, the physical practice of yoga. It's just one very teeny, teeny, tiny slither. And it's definitely before I did my yoga teacher training. That was back in 2018. I had that real interest in

the physical practice and getting really strong and flexible and doing the splits and jumping upside down and then the more I learned about it the clearer it was became that actually the asana practice that physical practice it was just a route to calm and the aim of yoga actually was I won't say it right I'm almost not going to say it but it's to still the fluctuations of the mind it's to create this mental calm and peace and oneness with the world. And so much of that then attaches to things like the yammers and the yammers, essentially the do's and the don'ts of the way you live your life. And that's so much more about not attaching yourself to everything and practicing discipline and the meditation side of it. And by meditation, you know, it's just being quiet and you

can see it as as well it's so much of a bigger part than the physical practice and I think that's just a really nice reminder again where it's all like I've got to jump upside down to be good inverted commas at yoga it's like no you've got to be able to sit still and quietly it made me feel so much better because I remember going when you you did graduate, I went to your class. I remember that. And I was pregnant with Zachary. And I, yeah, just remember that feeling so well of being there with the bump, feeling like I can't do all these things. But I actually remember you saying, you know, this is fine and making adaptions for it. But the yoga was so enlightening. I thought, oh, now I realize what yoga is about because I've just been going to be strong, flexible, and kind of have a nice music playing while I was doing some stretching. Let's be honest, that's what I was doing yoga for. And I did really enjoy it for that. And now I have an appreciation. And then the second book was next to it.

And it was by James Collier. It's called Well Fed. And I also got the opportunity of reading this several months ago before it had come out, having a good flick through, but I hadn't got the whole book. And then I looked at it in more depth. And with what's going on in the world at the moment with climate change and all the overwhelming topics, it's a really, really good read just to ground you and remind you that you can make a difference with your nutrition. It's almost like when I wrote The Science of Plant-Based Nutrition, I almost needed to do that for my own mental

health to reassure me that actually, yes, I can make a difference in my own way every single day to the planet. But when you've got in the UK a protein craze and hype like we've got at the moment, Ella, it's hard to break through that. It's so hard to break through that. So I want to go on to protein because I know you have done a lot on it this week with your work. One more thing on that podcast that he talks about, which I think is interesting in all of this as well, is this focus on behavior change. And that for so many of us, a bit like we were talking about actually with the documentary, is that people would turn, you know, coping mechanisms, might turn to sugar, alcohol, doom scrolling, TikTok, for our emotional stress. And then we say to ourselves in January,

I'm not going to eat sugar in January. I'm not going to drink in January. I'm not going to do X, Y or Z in January. I'm going to run every day in January. But if you don't come back to why you do these things in the first place, what is the emotion? What's going on in your life that you're struggling to deal with? What's so overwhelming? Where does the stress come from?

You'll never actually change your behavior. And again, he just talks about that really well so if you are struggling in any shape or form with changing habits but wanting to kind of feeling a bit overwhelmed by it all feeling a bit out of touch with yourself 100% go listen to Dr Chatterjee's School of Greatness I think it's it relieves a bit of pressure it'll make you feel inspired and quite calm it's really important the why is the reason behind everything and all or nothing mindsets I see it all the time in the clinic, Ella. All or nothing. It works short term. It never works long term. So it's crazy. Right. Tell me protein. I don't know what happened this

week. Basically, one paper of data came out from Tesco and they'd announced their biggest seller this year beating for the first time ever McCoy's crisps you know in the UK that's a staple for many people a pack of McCoy's is a protein egg pot and I remember when they first came out and prepped years and years ago as a snack and they'd kind of have maybe three or four leaves at the bottom and then two boiled eggs now I got asked to speak about it on BBC four I was speaking about it to a TV production company on channel four I was speaking about it on BBC4. I was speaking about it to a TV production company on Channel 4. I was speaking about it on Times Radio. Everyone was asking me the same questions. Why do you think this is it? And I said, well, I think personally, this is my professional opinion, is that marketing tactics and protein hype has become so big, predominantly because of social media. You've

got fitness influencers, unqualified PTs dishing out nutrition advice, and then you've got people, is it called menowashing, jumping on menopause, which obviously I think it's amazing we're speaking about protein for women. I don't want to discredit that at all because it is more important. But we don't have a protein deficiency in the UK. There's even chocolate bars with high protein on them. It's just wild. And we can't make five a day, yet we can buy egg pots. Now, I've got an example, Ella. I went into Tesco this morning. And I have to say, for £1.30, for many people out there, bear in mind, you can buy a pack of eggs for probably, what's a pack of eggs at the moment? Let's Google that quickly.

Stay there, I'll tell you. Stay there while I describe this to listeners. Well, I was a bit underwhelmed because first of all, you've got like finger marks of where the shells come off in the pot and there's no spinach leaves. I remember buying these things with spinach leaves. Now, obviously as a nutritionist, everyone listening, this is a good choice.

It's a much better snack option, a protein snack than a pack of crisps. Yeah, a pack of McCoy's. It's much better than a chocolate bar. It is a good snack, but it's interesting. I'm talking about how interesting it is that times have changed. Hit me. £1.65 from Tesco for six medium free range egg. As you said, I think it's something to celebrate in so many ways because it shows that there is this change in the way that we look at nutrition and with the way we're thinking about food. And for something that is totally natural to be massively outselling something like McCoy's.

Yeah, that's massive. And I feel like that's really exciting in so many ways because I think it's showing so much this information is landing and people are registering and they're moving on with their habits and really trying to make that effort. And I think that's brilliant. So I think that is what you're doing. Congratulations. Yeah. I genuinely, I think that's amazing in a way, really celebratory.

But equally, on the flip side, to your point of what's interesting to talk about with this, it's the fact that we, protein is just so confusing. And I actually did see a lot of people on the back of the first episode saying, please may talk about protein, because I'm confused by it. Like I'm genuinely hand on heart, super confused. And so I think it would just be really helpful to pause on protein and just debunk it because I'm sure other people are seeing it too and feeling like they're trying really hard to change their habits they're doing a really good job but equally it feels quite difficult to necessarily meet that do we need to be meeting that it's really interesting i totally i can emphasize i see it everywhere

the confusion is rife and you don't really absorb i mean there's mixed reviews out there now the science is emerging saying we can absorb more than we previously thought in one sitting. 20 to 30 grams max in one meal is really, most women should aim for around 20 grams in a meal at least and then top it up throughout the day with snacks. How protein works is protein synthesis works across the course of 24 hours rather than just the one meal you have or post workout. You know, people used to down a protein shake after a workout and be like, yeah, I've replenished my protein. It doesn't quite work like that. It's all the little things across the day that then add up that help speed up that particular metabolism and help build your muscle or retain your muscle. So if Ella was, let's say, for example, hypothetically speaking, if Ella was 60 kilograms or Joe blogs is 70 kilograms. He needs 70 grams of protein a day, roughly speaking.

Now, we do not have a protein deficiency in the UK. Can you just say that nine more times and a bit louder for everyone to hear? We don't have one. It's actually infuriating. When you've got other things we can discuss, like hospital cases going through the roof, people not getting vitamins and minerals they need because they do not eat fruit and vegetables or hit five a day.

Yet they're worried about topping up protein levels that are already adequate and are doing the job. I find it completely bizarre. Yes, know where it's coming from, know where you get your protein from, know where it is at every meal of the day. But you do not need to be excessively taking it. And it's not a panacea for health. I think, and I said this when I was speaking to BBC Radio 4, I think that protein has become a key buzzword that equates to health. Oh, I'm having a high protein shake. I'm healthy today.

It's not. The things that kind of contribute to your overall well-being are more the fiber, the vitamins and minerals with the protein, not the protein alone. It's not going to do miracles. But, OK, do you think it's because it's sexier? Because what I'm always conscious about. Oh, Ella, yes, this is it. Yeah, because basically when it, I think one of the things that's really interesting to me is that there is this, and I know we'll talk about it later with skin, there is always this interlink between wellness and health and as a pursuit for genuinely feeling really energized when you wake up in the morning,

for having a clear and calm mind, for feeling like you are getting that health span that you're going to live into your 70s and 80s with great health and not be in loads of pain or the rest of it. But then there's also health and wellness for the sake of looking a certain way. And there's no escaping. And don't get me wrong, like I have elements of vanity completely. Everyone does. There's definitely things I do for the sake of looking a certain way versus feeling a certain way. I'll be the first person to say that. But I think it can become quite murky at a certain point. And the thing that I think is interesting about protein is protein is so much sexier. It's so much more associated with six packs and looking really lean and muscular.

Nakedness. Nakedness. Yeah. Looking great. Yeah. Whereas fiber is associated with your poo. Poo. Yes. Exactly. And so it's like, even though we know it's so vital to us, it just hasn't had the cut through because it's not sexy because it's about your poo because animalistically speaking if you know what i'm

trying to say yes that's what we see we see body shapes and sizes talking about protein and we don't see that with the fiber message because fibers linked to heart health longevity gut health yes it makes poo it's linked to poo. And that is exactly why. Honestly, the protein conversation, we need a whole episode on, Ella. We definitely do. But I think it's a nice nugget for people to say this. You're saying protein is so, so important

and it's not to discount that, nor is it to say there's anything bad about having a protein-focused snack or meal as per our egg pots. And in a way, amazing, something natural is beating something UPF. Hooray. But you don't need to get bogged down in it or feel like it has to be the be all and end all of everything that you eat yeah it's got to be paired with other lifestyle factors weight

bearing exercise sleep the overall diet protein at every part of the meal your metabolism doesn't select single nutrients and then say that it's going to be better for you than another macronutrient like your carbs or your fats. You need it all in the right amounts that work for you. Oh, we love that advice. So let's move on to the headlines that matter. You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn Ads.

Email bob at libsyn.com to learn more. That's B-O-B at L-I-b-s-y-n dot com. is that the Global Commission on Clinical Obesity has just published a proposal that's calling for the change in how we define and treat obesity, which just feels so relevant today. So it's a commission of 58 medical professionals from organizations, including the Cardiometabolic Health Congress, Harvard Medical School, King's College Hospital, the World Obesity Federation. And they are asserting in the Lancet Diabetes and Endocrinology Journal that the current definition

of obesity is not nuanced enough to cover the spectrum of the condition and the different treatments needed for individual cases. This again feels very topical because of all the conversation around the Zempic and various different interventions that are so topical today but the specific aim of the commission was to establish objective criteria for disease diagnosis adding clinical decision making and prioritization of therapeutic interventions and But the specific aim of the commission was to establish objective criteria for disease diagnosis, adding clinical decision making and prioritization of therapeutic interventions and public health strategies. And you have been talking about this all week. So tell us. I know.

Constant media interviews on this all week, everybody. And it's because every time we have a new government, we've had so many overweight and obesity strategies in this country for the last decade. And most of them don't get followed through. They change. As a nutritionist, I'm constantly, we get this email through from our accrediting body that says, this has come out today. Everybody familiarize yourself with what the government now want you to do and how you're meant to approach this new strategy. It came through the other day and I thought, right, here we go. And sure enough, the phone starts ringing and you start speaking about it. But we have to acknowledge the fact that it does impact one billion people and nobody chooses this.

But what's really key here is that obesity is complex. And what's really good about this is finally I feel like there's an acknowledgement that there's psychology involved here. There's where you're from involved here. You know, there's the poverty involved here. There's where you're from involved here. You know, there's the poverty divide here. There's other mental health illnesses or comorbidities that can impact how overweight or obese you are and become. And I think the big concern is that we need to start looking at childhood obesity figures massively. And the strain on the NHS already is huge. Obesity isn't a choice. And just a little disclaimer, obviously, Ella and I, you know, we've got opinions on this, but we all know people that are living

with obesity that are struggling with their weight, and it's not easy. It's a difficult thing. So definitely go and speak to a health professional if you need advice there too. So for this paper to go through the discussions on TV that came about, which I was seeing, and I actually declined an interview about BMI because I don't think, as somebody that has a team that work with eating disorders, as well as obesity, my master's Ella was in obesity risks and prevention. I studied it in depth. But obviously, things have moved forwards now. BMI, as we know, isn't a healthy measure for lots of people. The example we've used before on podcast is that rugby players can have an overweight, you know, BMI, body mass index, because they've got so much muscle,

it doesn't indicate how healthy you are. However, there has to be a category and a cut off point somewhere. How else do you define scientific research? You know, a lot of it is a bit of a let's pick a number, let's go with a scale and let's try and make a paperwork. So BMI is so complicated. It's not the best ratio. And now they're actually starting to consider, let's do all the other ratios. Let's have a look at their waist hip. Let's have a look at their body fat percentages. Let's do more in-depth stuff, but that costs money. So instead of a GP just saying, what's your weight? What's your height? Let's do a simple calculation. They want to invest more into this area. So if we ditched BMI, where does that leave us? Which is the recommendation in here.

Which is the recommendation. How else are you meant to measure things? And this is the conversation that's emerging this week. This is what I was being asked. What do I think about BMI? What do I think about childhood obesity? I had another interview that came up about portion sizes on children's plates. Is that the cause for childhood obesity? I was being asked on the Times radio

about it saying, do you think parents are overfeeding children? And where do you even start? It's a constant blame game. Is it the parents' fault? Is it the government's fault? We've got to start working together as a society and just be kind and try and just have an open conversation and just make small changes. It's incredibly overwhelming and it's difficult not to look at it and think it's the fault of the landscape that we live in or as a larger proportion of where the issue sits. It's just the fact that it is now almost counterculture choice to try and eat healthily and how difficult it is. And, you know, we see that all the time. We look at what's on shelf on supermarkets and almost everything is ultra processed.

Almost everything has the most extraordinary number of ingredients. And then there's all these claims, protein being one of them, as you said, like a protein chocolate bar. And it's so difficult to navigate, you know, Cocoa Pops there on the front of pack supporting your family's health.

How is anybody meant to make decisions when it's this much of a minefield? And I think, but equally, I think it really is interesting. And what I really liked about this and everything I was reading on it was this move away from that more personal responsibility and saying, let's have a more nuanced conversation. Let's look at this in a way that felt more like we want to help people versus point fingers at people.

Which is nice. Which is absolutely brilliant. But as you said, it's also the ideal way to measure it wasn't BMI, it was body scans. And as a health system that's already struggling so much, the idea of that feels nil and impossible. So felt like positive recommendations, very difficult to implement. But also, again, just shining a light on how challenging our health environment is at the moment. And again, it's something that I am, I'm going to say obsessed because I like to be a woman of extremes, where there's this interesting divergence we've had where 15 years ago, no one talked about

wellness. Wellness is now the ultimate buzzword. You see it everywhere. It tops at all charts and books, podcasts. Eggs are making top sales. Eggs beat McCoy's. It's mega. Yeah. At the same time, our health is worse than it's ever been. So there's something about wellness that's fundamentally not working for enough people. At uni, we were told we live in an obesogenic environment. That's the phrase. We live in an obesogenic environment because it's full of ultra processed food and it's full of those coca pops claims. And it's so hard to navigate. There is a very important question to be asked as to why. I read something the other day that said 99% of people know they should eat their five a day. I mean, there is so much information around health and yet we are all collectively

struggling so much to implement so much of this. And as you said, so much that is that environment that we live in. But I do think we have to look ourselves very directly in the mirror and ask what about the wellness industry is working and what is not because the education is there the information is there there's an overload of it and yet it's but is it just the people that are in the wellness industry that are able to do it because if you're outside of that bubble then it is a really different question, isn't it? It's a different view. So in Scotland, Ella, just another headline. Just you and I, when we saw this, I could not believe it. So I'm just going to say, OK, people are going to.

Oh, it's so controversial, Ella. It's so controversial. I'm scared. No, don't be scared. That's the point of the show. OK, we got to have opinions. And I think, as we said at the end of the show last week, at the the show this week it is quite scary to have opinions this is really scary for me this is my big scare factor of the whole episode okay i'm gonna say it birthday cakes and sweet trees

are about to be banned from playgroups and nursery schools across scotland so new guidance has been drawn up by the smp government and it's going to make everybody who are looking after playgroup nursery aged children responsible for cutting out all quote unquote unhealthy food and drink and there's a very long list of products in there and it includes things like chicken nuggets, fish fingers, anything deep fried like chips as well as birthday cake which is what was making the headlines, chocolate and fruit juice, sweets etc. I'm not scared, I think it's great. Well done. You said it because I do too. But my problem is as a health professional, I can see all these other sides to the coin. Like I can see somebody that perhaps the only treat they can give their child because they don't have the income to buy other things is

to get them that pack of sweets to get them that cake. And I'm thinking, oh, gosh. But if I literally have my public health nutrition hat on it's blooming fantastic like it literally is such a good measure but it's not going to be liked and it's not easy for people no I mean it's definitely not liked a lot of people have said it's draconian and you have those images of Jamie Oliver's school dinners and turkey twizzlers going through your gate claims in the headlines everywhere we're turning into a is it nanny state that's what they say. Yeah. And I'm not surprised. I don't think that's an unfair accusation.

But your child, we had this discussion. So Ella and I, it was months ago. It was last year on another podcast. We were talking and we said every party we go to, and our kids were both under four, and there's packs of Haribo, there's cake at the nursery, and there could be three birthdays in a week. And they're having three lots of birthday cake in a week. And actually, under the age of two, the NHS guidance is no added sugars. You know, look, I think it's great for the same reasons that I think banning phones and social media under children 16 are great. Not because I call

myself a woman of extremes earlier, but not because I actually want extremes on everything, and not because I don't want people to have choice and not because I think that people need to eat 100% natural 100% of the time and can never eat sweets or birthday cake. I do not believe that. That's not how my children live. It's absolutely not. But as you said, it's the influx of it. And for parents and you know, looking at both phones and sweets as great examples. It's just so hard to navigate. It puts other children. So let's take a scenario. You're at a nursery and you've said you don't want your child to have cakes. This happened to me under the age of two. I don't think there was any need for it. At four, three, four, I changed my mind. But someone brings in a whole punnet full of cupcakes. Every child in the class

takes it, but your child isn't allowed it because the parent, like me, has said I'd prefer them not to have it. I then don't want my child to feel left out, isolated and alone because they can't have something because that distills an unhealthy relationship with food. But in my opinion, if this ban was in in the first place, we'd never have these uncomfortable situations. So that's a positive for me. And they can have those sweet treats at their birthday party or at home. Why do you have to impose it on all the other children at the nursery?

And that is my controversial opinion because I've been there and lived it. No, and that's what I think. And as I said, it's not. I actually remember having a conversation with someone and they said, which I thought was so wise, that balance is brilliant. And we're all here saying we love balance. Who doesn't love balance? But balance is the wrong way around where one in five of us are getting 80 of our calories from ultra processed food and one in

four of us manages to get our five a day so there's nothing wrong with let's call them trees sweets like etc etc there's nothing wrong with that no one's saying never have chips really can't overemphasize that enough same for children excluding under two point but what there is is we need to switch it and so we're all here saying let's have balance let's have balance but her opinion was that we've just taken that bit far and actually what it is we need to have balance the other way where the majority of what we're eating is fresh it's nourishing it's packed with vitamins minerals protein fiber antioxidants all these things that we know are so important for our health, for our physical health, for our mental health. And then we pepper on the trees. And that's great. I think so.

But the problem is, is the landscape is the other way around. would like to go to some extent in sense of like removing it from that sort of environment in order to facilitate that balance to happen because otherwise it is now an impossible so that's where I stand on it I agree with you because I agree with you this I know we share the same values on this but I know what the counter argument is because I face it with work every day there's people and other professionals that believe that intuitive eating, children are obviously intuitive, they believe that if you put on the plate a cupcake, broccoli, carrots, your child most of the time will eat all of those items on the plate and not just the cupcake. Now, I actually disagree with this. And it's true once a child is a certain age, but under the age of two, it's just completely pointless. Their taste buds are still developing, everything's still changing, their brain is still growing. It's the most rapid

phase of growth for your brain between nought and two. It's called the first 1000 days of research. And feeding them unnourishing items that are just going to potentially also go the other way and give them more of a damaging relationship with food. And just one more note on birthday cake, obviously, again, a little disclaimer, I feel like we should say this, but it's far from easy for parents in today's society. Like I said before, we live in an obesogenic society. Parents aren't told we have practically no support. We don't even have a village anymore. So food is hard. It's a really emotive topic for us all. So there's no judgment here. We're just simply discussing the headlines. Exactly. It is very difficult. We have all made things for our children that they reject

adamantly. There's all sorts of things they won't eat. My sister's boyfriend actually looked at me at the weekend. He said, why don't children like vegetables? You know, it's not easy. So this is, again, this isn't about any individual person. This is just about the environment we live in and how difficult it is to navigate and actually do we need to move slightly more extreme in order almost to help us or navigate it and actually interestingly that question of do we need a bit of help to navigate how difficult the food environment is moves us on to our last headline of the week which I think was very interesting in terms of just this evolving science and the fact that we're learning more and

more every single day, which is that yesterday, we're recording this on a Thursday, so this was on a Wednesday, the FDA in the US moved to ban a bright red dye. It's called red dye number three. It's used in drinks and snacks, lots of sweets, and it has been linked to cancer in animals, specifically in rat studies. It was approved permanent use in food and ingested drugs about 50 years ago, but it now must be removed from all food by mid-January 2027 in the US. And I think it's been a two-year lobby to ban this dye. It's actually apparently in lots of bubblegum. So it's been a two-year fight, but it has just come into force, which I think is really interesting. And one of the things that I wanted to ask your opinion on on this when I was looking at it last night

is actually, it just shows like I remember really early on when I changed my diet, talking to people about it. And someone saying, but isn't everything just a chemical? Does it make any difference what kind of chemical it is? And I certainly definitely got my fair share of criticism. Oh, we are. I remember those days, Ella. Yeah, it was lovely for putting forward a natural diet and a desire to move away from ultra-processed food. But I think what it shows is that, as I said earlier on, people were saying, is there enough evidence? Can we say this yet? And I think what it shows is this is so ever-evolving and it's changing all the time we're seeing this a lot new research will come forward on why an emulsifier is bad for your gut health and we don't have the perfect answer at the moment as to what specific ultra-processed ingredients are bad but

what we are seeing is that it is coming more and more to the forefront and the science is changing we do i will share this in a few weeks with you when I can share my big project. But there are actually five known additives that cause hyperactivity in children and it is listed on the Food Standards Agency in the UK's website. So well done, America, for actually getting that off the list.

And given that, that does support the ban of those sweets in nurseries. Oh gosh, I'm so glad we got past that section. All right, moving on to what's trending in wellness. Right, so every week we unpack trends that we've seen and trends that perhaps we might try for you live. And today is the day. I've just been dreading it. I've been sat here the whole time we've been talking with these two flasks.

Actually, they're very cute little cups from Ella's kids that she's made some concoctions for me. And I've spoken about one of them before on the BBC. And one of them is called oat Zempik. And the other is Cheerwater. Ella, over to you. Okay, and just clarify, it's oat Zempik, like O-A-T, just porridge oat. And obviously, a Zempik and the conversation around these weight loss drugs has exploded over the last couple of years. We're going to delve into that into another episode because there's just so much to say that I think we can't cover it here. I do think if you want after this to kind of immediately learn a bit, Johan Hari talks a lot about it. He wrote a big book on it called Magic Pill. And you can listen to him on something like Diary of a CEO. He does

present the pros and cons of it in a really interesting way. So if you want to learn more, that's worth having a quick listen to. But basically, oat Zempic is a natural, I'm going to say replica, of course, it's not a replica of the drug, but it's a... It's not remotely a replica. No, but it's a TikTok play on. But the idea is that because oats are full of beta-glucan, which is a soluble fiber that slows digestion, helps you keep full, it's going to mimic the same effects in the sense of you won't be hungry, so you'll eat less.

That's why I meant by replica. So to make it, you're going to blend half a cup of oats with one cup of water and the juice of half a lime. I couldn't wait to talk to you about it and get your opinion on the lime because that's what I got quite fixated on last night. So I read so many articles. Why the lime is a lime and apple type suppressant.

I was on the Mayo Clinic where they'd done a piece and she was like, no, why not vanilla or cinnamon? Like something a bit yummier. Anyway, it's really easy. A reminder that oats are super good for you. So from your half cup of oats, you can get four grams of fiber, you can get four grams of fiber.

You can get five grams of protein. You get lots of vitamins and minerals, 10% of your iron intake. So this is not bad. Like your egg pot, it's not bad. Not in any shape or form because oats are really good for you, as we said. But it's just weird. Why do we have to blend them? They look so rank.

Because their appetite, it's like another should we try it first and then i'll go into the i'll be the negative nunny about it poor re because i made these this morning at home and before i took the kids to school and sky's my older daughter looks at me she went mummy i don't want to eat that that looks disgusting i was like it's okay it's not for you it's a treat for relator um but i was also interestingly making the kids porridge at the same time yeah with essentially the same ingredients of course but using milk and added berries and things to theirs and some almond butter and i thought lime to us dash of water yeah yeah i just thought oh i wish i could add more to it anyway

cheers so just just to describe it it's t tanned, obviously, because of the oats. It's like a pale white liquid. It looks almost like a plant milk. You need to kind of shake it up. We can't because we've got straws in it because all the ground down oats kind of sit to the bottom of the cup. Yeah, it's like a thick, more gelatinous oat milk. Oh, God. Oh, my God. No, I can't.

Oh, my God. That is horrible. Because you get the lime first and then you get thick bits of oat stuck in your straw. Oh, my god. No, I can't. Oh my god. That is horrible. Because you get the lime first and then you get thick bits of oak stuck in your straw. Oh my god, that really is... What a waste of your morning. It's okay, it was so quick. It really was so quick. It's the lime because the lime adds the flavour.

It's like you've got a citrus hint of juice. There's no nutrition benefit to adding the lime, by the way, whatsoever. So I gather. If anything, it's a fermentation dream that's crazy. It's going to kick off. It's just an appetite suppressant. People were just playing on ozempic and oat. And I can honestly say that's the only reason why.

And I would not recommend having this over actually eating your porridge because when you drink things, it hits your bloodstream at a faster rate. So what this is actually going to do is this is going to cause your blood glucose to rocket and then crash. So this is not a good way to start your morning because even the small amount of protein you get from the oats, because we blended everything together, it's just going to be a huge spike and then you'll get a huge crash and you will probably feel hungry again. But if we had mixed it with some nut butter, we sprinkled some pumpkin seeds or some hemp seeds or something,

and we had some banana on it. Then it would be like a smoothie. No, I don't mean a smoothie. I mean as a bowl. Then we would actually really stabilize our blood sugar. Blood porridge. And feel great. Yeah, absolutely.

So why would you drink this watery lime? Let me just hang on one more go. I wouldn't recommend one more go. No, I can't. Because the straw's at the bottom and I'm just getting oh I would drink the lime water yeah it's just again can't say it enough healthy should be fun it should be joyous it should be great you should look forward to your breakfast oh raw oats it's just there's so loads of great ingredients and a tablespoon of oats by the way in your smoothie is really nice and And it's really good for you, as you said. And it tastes really nice.

You can get all this benefit in an edible manner. Exactly. I mean, tell me who exactly is even drinking these drinks? Who's making these? Well, one TikTok video I was watching last night, which is one of the ones that lots of people have written about when they're talking about oats and pick. He said he lost 40 pounds in two months doing this

because his appetite was so under control. That's what the BBC asked me. That was the person, 40 pounds. But that's not safe. That's not a good amount of weight to lose in one month. But also, wouldn't you have had the same benefit in terms of being less hungry if you had filled out with a really delicious oat based meal? It's like people that juice though, this is the equivalent of a juice fast. It's just you're blending oats with water instead of blending vegetables and fruit. So our next one, I i think looks much better our next one is in the same world but it's cheer water and

this is again these are so easy and so you know all credit for that it's literally just two tablespoons of chia seeds with a cup of water and then a squeeze of lemon took how much lemon did you put in i had a bit of a i'm sorry i'll get the glasses a bit slightly old looking lemon did you put in? I had a bit of a, I'm sorry, a bit of a rank. I'll get the glasses. A bit of a slightly old looking lemon that didn't give me much juice. Glass for Ella, glass for me. Do you want to spoon that though? Because it's going to go all over the bed. Yeah, because the chia seeds have expanded. So chia seeds absorbed, a little nutrition fact, 10 times their weight in water,

which is why people make puddings with them. They become gelatinous. They become thick. I love chia pudding. Yeah, me too. I love it. It's an expensive ingredient, though. Let's just put this out there.

This is not your everyday ingredient. It should be, but it's really expensive. But it is really good for you. It's very good for you. Super rich in fiber, healthy fats. Omega-3, exactly. Brain food. Hard to get.

Protein, antioxidants, micronutrients. So lots of benefit in this. Loads. Took me 15 seconds to make. My kids love chia seeds, so this could be a thing. Let's go. Let's go. I can drink that because the oat thing was just disastrous.

I can drink chia water. I like it. But I like the texture. Some people won't like chia seeds because they look a bit like frog spawn. You know, when they expand. Is it frog spawn, isn't it? It's frog spawn. I was going to say frog sperm and I was like, no, it's frog spawn.

Yeah. Frog sperm doesn't make a sound very nice. Sorry, everyone. No, I remember first making chia pudding when I was starting cooking and I was cooking it with my mum. And she hates it. She thought it was frog spawn. I've always loved it. Big fan of chia pudding.

Me too. And I think this is interesting. You said chia seeds are expensive, but they are like super, super dense in nutrition. And so actually, if you are maybe looking for things that fill you up, that maybe support you. But do not replace your meal. My one word of warning with these type of items on TikTok is they should not be seen as meal replacements. Chia water, like Ella said, put it alongside a meal. Yeah, or after a meal. After a meal, a piece of fruit. But chia seeds are really good for you. I would rather this with a bit of yogurt, a tablespoon of oats mixed in, and have it as a cheer pudding for breakfast.

I love cheer pudding. Me too. I think it's super, super delicious. How do you make your cheer pudding not sink? We need tips from Ella here. So you know when you put it in the fridge overnight, you've whisked it up. How does it not all sink to the bottom? It does a little bit, but I think yogurt yogurt really helps so it's a mix of yogurt and milk like a natural emulsifier exactly and then i find some oats really help so i'll do

half oats and half chia then some yogurt a little bit of milk mix it all up as you said pop in the fridge overnight it's super yummy i know as you said some people don't like chia seeds but if you do that's delicious if you listen everybody let us know if you make this and you've just heard how good both chia seeds and oats are for you and I think that's a more delicious take on both chia water and oat zen pick but if you are looking for something I say chia water I'm going to give that a six out of ten zero out of ten for oat zen pick I kind of would echo but I'm actually just going to say five out of ten because it's just an addition it's just an addition to a meal if it's a chia pudding Ella I would probably go ten out of 10 because it's just an addition. It's just an addition to a meal. If it was a cheer pudding, Ella, I would probably go 10 out of 10. Maybe I'll make you cheer pudding next week. Thank you. Okay, so obviously we're talking about trending. I think we all can't move but for seeing

loads of conversation around skincare, around skin health, glowing skin. Collagen. Collagen, LED masks, superfoods and so on. So we thought that was the perfect topic to cover in our Ask the Expert section today. So today we've got Thivvy Marathapu with us, who's going to be talking about everything and whether trendy fixes really live up to the hype or whether or not we're just all putting way too much pressure on ourselves for totally unrealistic beauty standards. And Thivvy, I think if we start by saying, look, diet and skin health, we hear it all the time, but is there actually, aside from the usual, you know, oh, eat your vitamin A or have your healthy fats, is there a way of eating

for glowing skin or is it mostly genetics? You know, those people that just seem to eat whatever they want and have great skin. Is there a link? It's such a good question. And I get asked about it all the time. So, you know, your skin health, it's multifactorial. There's so many different things that are playing a role here. So it is your diet. Your diet is an important part of general skin health.

Your skin is supplied by all the nutrients from the food that you're eating. They do reach the skin. So what you're eating is reflected in your skin. But also, of course, your genetics. Some people are going to be prone to certain skin conditions like eczema or breakouts. It doesn't matter what they eat. Although eating a really good balanced diet is important as an anti-inflammatory part of taking care, even if you have a skin condition. And of course, your skincare routine matters, how you live your life matters, whether you're doing lots of exercise or whether you're getting good sleep, whether you're keeping hydrated, whether you have

lots of alcohol, it's actually all of it together that plays a really important role in how your skin looks and feels because your skin is so important in how you feel about yourself as well. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. It's amazing the impact it has on your self-esteem. And I think that's something we can all relate to. I know every time I open a magazine or I'm doom scrolling social media, which I do more than I'd care to admit, you see things like the 10 things you've got to eat for glowing skin or the eight skin superfoods and all sorts of quite clickbaity headlines. Are there, as you said, it does matter what we eat, but are there specific nutrients or specific superfoods, things in our diet that make a really big difference? What should we be thinking about adding?

So when I'm in the clinic and I'm talking to people about what should you eat to look after your skin? And obviously in the clinic, I'm using it in conjunction with sometimes with medical treatment, sometimes with skincare routines. I always use my little acronym GLOW. And it just helps people to remember what the nutrients are and try and think about how they want to build their plate. Because it's all about bringing good food into your diet rather than cutting things out. So the G stands for greens and all the colorful fruits and vegetables full of antioxidants.

L is lean protein. That could be chickpeas, that could be tofu, whatever sources you want to get it from, but you need that protein for healthy skin. O is your oils and healthy fats, your omega-3. We want to have lots of olive oil, flax seeds, nuts and seeds. And finally, W is whole grains, which always seems to be something people are trying to remove from their diet, but actually is so important for your gut health and your gut is linked to your skin. And so I really try and make a balanced plate. And I really talk to people, you know, when you look at your plate, have you got all those nice things in your plate? It doesn't have to be every meal of the day, but throughout the day, think about including all of those nutrient dense foods.

And what I love about what you've just said is it's not just go and have an avocado or just go and eat a handful of nuts for skin. You've literally discussed what I would call a balanced plate as a nutritionist. This is how to eat most of the time. It's not fatty. It's not expensive. This is your everyday balanced plate. So I guess a thought and a question is if we've got this skin microbiome as well with gut health, and there's lots of posts out there and people talking about these individual nutrients, how true is that when it comes to somebody saying, well, you're not eating enough vitamin E, therefore your skin isn't going to be plump and look lifted and hydrated.

So there are deficiencies that will show up in your skin. So say iron deficiency might get dry, itchy skin, low vitamin D is linked to lots of different skin conditions, actually. But picking out those nutrients doesn't automatically give you better skin if you're, you know, actually generally quite healthy. You don't need to supplement with specific things to improve the health of your skin. I really feel that actually you should be getting it from the food that you're eating and you might end up wasting money. And really the focus shouldn't be on supplementing all the time. It should be getting your diet right and then supplementing as you need it. I love that as well, because what you're recommending to people, as Rhi was just saying, it's like not particularly expensive. It's just

normal, normal food that are delicious and easy to cook simple meals with every day. And if we look beyond our diet, how much do our other lifestyle factors play in? So what we eat is really important, but do we see stress, hydration, sleep? Do we see that showing up in our skin as well? Absolutely. So sleep deprivation can worsen itching from eczema. It can impair your skin barrier. So it actually has measurable effects on the skin. Keeping hydrated, you can see more fine lines and wrinkles if you're not fully hydrated. So yeah, all of those things are super important for skin health.

And it's not sort of just my word for it. Actually, there's science that backs it up. There's science that backs up. If you eat more brightly colored fruits and vegetables, you will eventually age better and have less fine lines and wrinkles in the long term. Isn't that really amazing? So it's actually, there's good research that backs up that actually looking after your overall health is very important for the health of your skin. Not to be negative, but on the flip side, things like alcohol, do we see that or potentially over consumption of ultra processed foods do we see and i'm not demonizing having a margarita lover but um like a consistent more excessive consumption

of alcohol foods like ultra processed foods loads and loads and loads of sugar does that have a negative impact so um excess alcohol consumption is linked with flares of skin conditions and also accelerated aging, particularly the upper part of the face. So I always encourage people, you know, enjoy your wine, enjoy your margarita, but moderate it. Do you know what I mean? When you said the upper part of the face, do you mean so people that drink around their eyes and their forehead? Yes, exactly. It's an American study. And they actually found that the upper part of the face had more fine lines and wrinkle in people who are drinking more than what they are recommended to yeah and of course does that come out differently with your different genetic makeups

you've got different skin colors textures yeah so some people do age better yeah exactly of course some people you know they will they can get away with sort of lifestyle habits a bit more easily but you know we talk about general trends and the general trend is you know, they can get away with sort of lifestyle habits a bit more easily. But, you know, we talk about general trends and the general trend is, you know, alcohol isn't the best for skin aging and general skin health. And, you know, if you've got eczema, rosacea, psoriasis, eczema, you know, all of those things can flare with alcohol. And what about food? Because I think as well as reading like eight things that will change your skin, sometimes it's the flip side of like trying to say never eat these things ever again is there any truth in that no so i think you you got to balance it all i mean there has been some recent research that showed that ultra processed food were linked with more severe psoriasis but that is people who are really consuming a lot of

it so it is part of everybody's diet you don't need to demonize it but you do want to be eating fresh healthy homemade meals where possible so there'll be lots of people listening to this that at home experience severe acne or it's something they've had their whole lives. They've had to go on various medications. Is there any advice for listeners out there that are going through that or they've been on, is it Roaccutane that some people take for their skin? Yeah, it's a strong medication for acne. So as I said in the beginning, skin conditions are multifactorial and for some people take for their skin or they get. Yeah, it's a strong medication for acne. So as I said in the beginning, skin conditions are multifactorial. And for some people,

a lot of it is driven by genetics. And even if their diet is so good, they're still gonna have acne. They're still gonna have rosacea or psoriasis or eczema. And I see so many people who've tried to cut lots of food out of their diet. And actually really that isn't the way to cure in inverted commas, any skin condition.

If you've got a good balanced diet, you're meeting your nutritional needs, we need to go in with some effective medical treatments, a really good skincare routine. There are so many options that you shouldn't sit at home and suffer trying to sort of make your diet smaller and smaller in order to get results. That's a very empowering statement. So thank you for sharing that because I think that because it's such a hot topic skin, it almost feels like it's your fault. And I think it's really empowering to know. I think it's a big part of this show for us is just showing be that suffering with some skin challenges, be that anxiety, etc. These feelings are so normal and it's so normal. Life ebbs and flows and there's nothing wrong with you or what you're doing. And I think it's quite easy to feel like

that in the online world where we're just so bombarded with other people's lives. So much of it's not even true. It's certainly an augmented reality. And so much self-flame around food as well, isn't there? Oh my goodness, I ate this dark chocolate last night that must be why I have a breakout the next day you know you cannot go down that route you know there are people who'll be eating you know sweets and fizzy sugary fizzy drinks all day and not have one pimple so you can't underestimate what genetics is doing so so true when it comes to supplements again that's something that we see people talking about a lot collagen in particular or beauty gummies for example what is your view i know you said earlier your kind of first port of call for everybody is thinking about that balanced diet yes do you believe in all these

various different supplements so i think there's some really important supplements vitamin d i think is essential we don't get enough We need it for our skin barrier to work properly and general health of our skin. So definitely your vitamin D. Some people will need it only through the winter months. Some people that I see in the clinic, if you've got a skin condition and you're covered up, you need it all year. I think omega-3, if you're not able to get it through your diet, I have some people who are allergic to the foods that contain omega-3 or they just don't find them very palatable. So the foods that contain omega-3, or they just don't find them very palatable. So then I think an omega-3 supplement is really good. I think women

can run low on iron very easily because of our menstrual cycles, pregnancy, breastfeeding, all of those things just kind of seep the iron out of our diet. And sometimes it's difficult to top it up just through food alone. And sometimes iron supplements are really good to think about as well, especially for hair, really important for hair. Can I ask, and before we go on to collagen and the big ones that I know that everyone's desperate to hear, but you're quite a rare health professional in the sense that you're a qualified registered nutritionist and you're a dermatologist. So you've got the combined approach, which I absolutely adore. And when you mentioned supplements, it's obviously important, isn't it, to say don't just go out and suddenly take a high dose iron

supplement because that could be quite detrimental. So I work off the blood test. So if someone has come in with symptoms of low iron, like feeling really tired, they're losing their hair, their skin is dry, and their skin might be itchy, I'm always going to check the iron and then I'm going to replace it depending on what I'm seeing. So it is important to get those things tested. Yeah. And then can you give us, so Ella and I've been itching about it. I mean, look, we're 30s now. I think, I feel like when you hit your 30s, you're just bombarded with this kind of aging messaging. It's everywhere. It's at the school pickup, it's in every algorithm, Collagen, for aging,

I know there's some research for joints. What about aging? So I mean, if you for prevention of aging, number one is sunscreen. I mean, that is going to trump everything else. So good diet, good skincare routine, and sunscreen. Everything else on top of that is a little bit of extra, you can do a little bit of collagen if you want to and try it and see if you see an improvement. Some people really do notice hair and nails grow more quickly if they're taking collagen supplements. But you have to remember to look at the source of that collagen and what is the original source of it.

And you have to think about whether that's something that you're happy with. I think there are lots of other things that you could do on top of collagen. If you're getting adequate protein, that is what is making the collagen in your skin. And most of us actually don't need to supplement on top of that. Well, that would save everyone a lot of money, which is absolutely brilliant news. Before we go on to our final question, I actually wonder, we keep talking about aging. And what's your kind of view on the term anti-aging or how do you describe it because again I think everything about this show is we want people to leave feeling empowered and

inspired and comfortable in themselves and as we're talking about today so much of what in the case of skin but in everything we talk about it's actually about these simple things it's sleep it's stress management it's a generally balanced diet it's a bit of exercise it's it's quite simple tools but it feels like we of exercise it's it's quite simple tools but it feels like we're trying to make it all so complicated and aging feels like one of those things when we're all trying to sort of benjamin button ourselves and there's a lot of press out there of what is a 30 year old even meant to look like now and it feels like we sort of lost a semblance of perspective on aging and we're trying to do the impossible. What's your view on that?

So, I mean, I really have a holistic view on aging. I have a patient who inspires me every time I see her. She's in her eighties. She's still working. She does yoga every day. She's got loads of wrinkles, but she is just amazing. She is full of energy. She tells me what she eats, super healthy, you healthy, loves her fruits, vegetables. She's always cooking. And she jumps up the stairs to her appointment. And I think, isn't that how we all want to age? We want to feel good. We want to be flexible. We want to feel positive. How our skin looks, yeah, it makes us feel good. But I don't think we should be fighting every line and wrinkle. Because sometimes when you go down the route of just trying to fix everything on the outside, and you don't think about how you feel on the inside, there can be a real disconnect.

You might look, in inverted commas, like a 25-year-old, but you don't feel great. You don't like what you see in the mirror. You're tired. You need to look at the whole thing. Have you seen lots of people, have you had patients come to your clinic and your practice that have gone too far with that sort of thing, you know, and then you've had to give them advice to sort of, I don't know, dull it down a little bit in terms of all the measures that people take for anti-aging. I think people are doing it anyway, actually. I think the general trend is to go a little bit more natural and look, you know, if you want to do a little bit of treatments here and there,

why not? But make sure that you're doing everything else. There's no point doing all of those things if you're not using great. But think of it all together. Don't just think of, you know, if I fix this wrinkle, I'm going to be happy because chances are you might not be. But also, as you're saying, it's also normal to have a wrinkle. There's nothing strange about us. Oh, absolutely. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, good. And we just need to drink lots of water, eat a balanced diet. And that will be the most powerful thing we can do every single day. And you feel good too. Yeah.

And what about things that we see again a lot at the moment in the press and online? LED lights, face sculpting devices, a lot of these at-home solutions. I quite like LED lights, actually. I think red light's quite good. I have one myself and I think it's been effective for me. And I have patients in the clinic who really enjoy using them as well. I think it's quite an easy, relaxing thing to do at home. It doesn't work for me. And I have patients in the clinic who really enjoy using them as well. I think it's quite an easy, relaxing thing to do at home. It doesn't work for everybody. You'd have to try it to know if it's going to help for your skin, but it's quite a nice,

non-invasive treatment to have. In terms of microcurrent devices, they do give a lifting effect, but it's not permanent, but they do give a little bit of a lift when you use it. What about having these massages that lift your face? Because I had one of these treatments and I could see a difference. I sent Ella my before and after picture. I could see a difference in my face. I've shared it online and had so many people say, oh my goodness. But realistically, should we be working out the muscles on our face every single morning? Is that a beneficial thing to do? Massage is amazing for skin health. Amazing. And I think it originates in Japan, doesn't it? That amazing lifting facial massage technique. And it is fantastic because it boosts collagen. So it is

a natural way to boost the collagen in your skin. So you can do it at home. You don't always have to go and have someone do it. It's so good to have someone do it because you'll see some great results and learn how to do it but you can definitely do it yourself at home so even just two minutes at home with a gua sha or one of those different tools or even just your hands worth doing every morning if you can yeah it's worth doing i love it so it sounds like our take-homes are give yourself a couple of minutes massage in the morning if you can led lights definitely could be interesting to explore. But the big thing to focus on is a balanced diet with your GLOW acronym, which sounds like a very simple thing for people to follow. Really focus on hydration, on sleep, on looking after yourself, but also remembering that it's

completely normal to get spots. It's completely normal to get wrinkles and just embrace that holistic view of the way that we age, that it's fixing, as you said, which I just love, fixing one wrinkle won't fix. All our anxiety is about getting older. Yeah. So obviously all of those things are super important, but if you're struggling, if you've got a skin condition that's really getting you down, go and see someone. We have so many different ways to tackle it nowadays. And a qualified person. Of course. You have to check. Thank you a qualified person of course you have to check thank you thank you thank you guys so much for listening today it was a jam

packed episode i think it probably could have been eight times longer it's just there's so much to get into and there's one thing i just wanted to say before we close, which is that you are so welcome, in fact, encouraged to disagree with us. This is not us saying that we have all of the answers or we know everything. These are our thoughts. These are our opinions because these topics are so topical. They're so involved and prominent in all of our lives. And they dictate so many of the conversations we're having, the thoughts we're having, the things that we consume.

I don't mean just what we eat and drink. I mean what we watch, what we listen to, what we read. And so we feel they're really important to talk about. You're not going to agree with us on everything. We don't want this to be something where you think we're preaching at you. We are not. We just want to talk about it, partly because we're obsessed, as I keep saying, but partly because it matters.

How we live our lives matters. What we eat matters, how we move our bodies, how we sleep matters. And we want to remind you of that, but not in a way where you think that it's our way or the highway because it's not. And as that podcast I recommended at the beginning said, it is about taking all the advice, all the ideas, and then making it work for your life. And we don't know your life, only you know your life. So be inspired by things you read, be curious, but take it all and be intuitive to yourself and your own body, your own life, your own circumstances. Exactly, you are unique and there's no judgment at all.

So we will see you all next Monday for more inspiration, practical tips, hopefully my cheer putting. Honestly, no, don't worry, you don't have to do that. I won't forget. Don't, don't. Until then, take care of yourself and don't forget small steps lead to big changes. And if you do like it, please share it, review it, subscribe. We would appreciate it more than anything. You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads.

Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn Ads. Email bob at libsyn.com to learn more. That's B-O-B at L-I-B-S-Y-N dot com.