The Wellness Scoop - The 6 foundations of health, healing, and cycle syncing

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

This week I’m joined by nutritionist and lifestyle medicine practitioner, Rohini Bajekal. Having experienced her own period of ill health, Rohini is passionate about empowering everyone to take charge of their health.  We discuss: Both of our experience of chronic illness Why sleep is the foundation of health The science of lifestyle medicine  The science of cravings  How to get started on a health journey  Improving gut health  The impact of our current food environment  Each week I unpack a wellness trend with GP Gemma Newman. This week on Fact or Fad we’re looking at cycle syncing.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh, hi there! I'm Norma, the unofficial mayor of the Town of Destiny. Speaking of, FanDuel's Kick of Destiny 3 is happening live Super Bowl Sunday. You should watch. It's gonna be a hoot! While you're at it, download FanDuel, North America's number one sportsbook. You can bet on touchdowns, turnovers, heck, even total kicker points, don't you know? Anywho, enjoy your podcast or whatnot. Please play responsibly. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling

or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to connectsontario.ca. Wellness. What on earth does it mean? And why would we need to unpack it? With over 58 million hashtags on Instagram, the topic has really never been more prominent. But, and there is a but here,

three in five of us feel that wellness is incredibly confusing. We want to feel healthier, we want to feel happier, but we have no idea what's clickbait and what's genuinely health enhancing. Who's an expert and who's peddling absolute nonsense and look I am right here with you on this at times I've also found this world really hard to navigate. So welcome to Wellness Unpacked our new podcast hosted by me Ella Mills author entrepreneur and founder of Deliciously Ella. This series aims to do just as it states, unpack the world of wellness with expert guests. These guests will be sharing with me and with you their three pieces of advice for a better life, to feel healthier and happier. This is a show and a conversation that's about progress it is not about perfection it's about

helping you make small simple sustainable changes and within that I'm going to be testing out a different wellness trend every single week intermittent fasting celery juice, collagen, ketogenic diets, CBD, you name it, I'll try it. I'll then unpick the trend, separating fact from fad, with my friend and NHS GP, Dr Gemma Newman. And together we'll be equipping you with the tools that can genuinely make a difference to your life and well-being, and equally helping you potentially put to one side the trends that may make a difference to your life and well-being and equally helping you potentially put to one side the trends that may make a little bit less difference. So are you ready for episode 12? Our 12th guest on Wellness Unpacked is nutritionist Rohini Bajekal. We've been talking a lot over the last six weeks or so about self-development, about our mindsets,

about nourishing our brains and neuroplasticity and creating the lives that we really want for ourselves. And I was very keen this week to look at the foundations of our health because I think it's really one thing to say I want to make a big change but I think doing that from a place where you feel exhausted, low immunity, low energy, trouble with sleep etc is a bit tricky. I know the two go hand in hand but I felt we needed to address those foundations this week so I've invited Rohini onto the show and Rohini's work combines her expertise as a nutritionist with her own health journey. She's incredibly vulnerable and I think very very empowering in the way that she talks about everything that she's learned. Her work really centres around the concept of

lifestyle medicine and it was through her own struggles with PCOS, polycystic ovary syndrome, that she discovered the real benefits of this approach of lifestyle medicine and I just cannot wait for you to hear more about it. We'll also be discussing our current food culture, what we can learn from other cultures and I think there is just a huge number of takeaways. So let's just get straight into the show. Well Rohini, welcome to the show. It's so nice to see you and have you here. Thank you so much and I'm so excited. We've just been having a bit of a pre-record chat and I think this is going to be a juicy conversation.

So I'm very excited for everyone to listen to this. But before we get into the depths of the interview, can I just ask Rohini, what does wellness mean to you? So for me, I definitely think wellness, when you strip back all those connotations that immediately come to mind, for me, wellness is a foundational human right. It's something that everyone should have access to, to feel at home in their body and to feel well emotionally, physically, and even spiritually. And often I think the wellness industry, we can really focus on the individual, but I like to zoom out a bit and think that wellness actually applies to us all collectively. And that's why we need everyone to be part of the conversation and the efforts, whether it's health professionals or professionals working in schools and other industries. And we need the wider society to really adopt this as a way of life.

And what is the best piece of health advice you've ever been given? I think it's start today and don't put it off till tomorrow. I think that so often we wait until we have this conditional idea of when we're going to feel well and when we're going to look after ourselves and we think I'll do that in the future but if you can start today with something small whether it's just 15 minutes of exercise or a short walk that can make a world of difference. I love your answer to that. I think it's so true when we're in a negative headspace or that kind of sense of being in a funk, you put stuff off and you put stuff off and you're like, when I've got time next week, and then you feel so much worse about yourself.

But I have to ask what is the worst piece of health advice or the worst trend that you've ever tried out? So I'm going to be honest, when I was in my mid-20s, I actually moved to India and I worked for the first cold press juice company out there. And I was really into juice cleansers. I only did a few myself, but I thought that that would somehow make up for binge drinking and all my other sins. And I didn't really understand nutrition so it's something that I'm the first person to say you know we need to own our mistakes or kind of come out and say actually that perhaps wasn't the best idea I now know that I'd much rather opt for a smoothie which has all that fiber intact and everything so definitely juice cleanses are not

something I'm a huge fan of. I tried juice cleanses too this is again like in the early days of my exploration of health and wellness I'd say they're up there in worse trends that I've tried too and I like that the industry's moved on to that more inner pursuit of wellness than external kind of aesthetics are there any daily-ish sort of non-negotiable habits that you've got in your life that you feel really really contribute to your day-to-day well-being? Absolutely so I have so many but the first thing I do is try and get outside for an early morning walk we know that exposure to morning sunlight has so many different positive

impacts on your health and well-being so just that early morning light exposure can actually help with sleep onset later in the day and quality of sleep. And it just sets me up for a really positive day. I sometimes put on a podcast or just try and tune into the sounds of nature. I do live in London, so sometimes they're not always the most pleasant sounds, but it just gets me into a really positive frame of mind. Yes, I'm the same. And it's a mix of kind of beautiful birds tweeting, wind in the trees and then fire engines and sirens and honking. Still can appreciate it. Do you have a morning routine outside of that or is just the walk the kind of foundation for you? The walk is really the foundation and I do like to start with a really

good breakfast. I find that I wasn't really a breakfast eater in the past but now having looked at the research and really understanding things to myself I know that we're the most insulin sensitive in the morning so we're actually primed to metabolize carbohydrates and get in a really good breakfast it sets me up for the day and I know then that I've had a really nourishing meal so I usually start with a bowl of porridge and top it with lots of berries lots of antioxidant rich foods and things like flax seeds and some nuts. And I find that whatever I eat for the rest of the day, I know that I've had a really good breakfast and that itself is very satisfying. Yeah, I know. I love that. And I think if we actually start to move into your three pieces of advice,

I feel that kind of holistic take on wellness leads us in so nicely. Could you tell our listeners about your first piece of advice? So my first piece of advice is really that lifestyle matters. Nutrition is a really important cornerstone of health, but it's not the only one. And lifestyle medicine is actually one of the fastest growing areas of medicine. And it looks at six main pillars. So these include things like a predominantly whole food plant-based diet, getting enough exercise, adequate restful sleep, positive social relationships, stress management,

and also minimizing alcohol and potentially eliminating tobacco and other risky substances. So I wondered if you could almost take us all through a little exercise where we could almost do an audit of those six pillars. You know, if you were thinking take us all through a little exercise where we could almost do an audit of those six pillars. You know, if you were thinking about each one individually and for people listening, what would be the kind of key concepts or premises of each one that people could start to think about? Am I doing that or could I do more of that? Sure. So we know that these six pillars are sort of like the foundations or the building blocks of health. And I find them really helpful as a health professional, because I'm able to give

clients a buffet of options to choose from to start improving their health. But if you were to take one, which is stress management, that's the one I do like to focus on. I think when you say to someone stress management, it almost sounds quite nebulous. How do you actually manage your stress? It's someone says to you, don't be so stressed, you know, it stress management it almost sounds quite nebulous how do you actually manage your stress it's someone says to you don't be so stressed you know it's it's not necessarily helpful and many of us are stressed I think something like 81% of UK women feel regularly overwhelmed and there's some stress that's actually good so you've got the kind of stress that might be helpful if you're about to do a half marathon or you've got an exam but when stress is unmanaged and it's chronic

that's when it becomes a risk factor for other chronic lifestyle diseases so it's actually acting early a simple tip could be adopting a mindfulness practice maybe 15 minutes a day something like you know meditation or yoga volunteering maybe walking in nature spending time with loved ones we all have different things that we find stress relieving. I think what works for one person might not necessarily work for another. And that's why it's good to have a few different tools in your toolbox to draw on in those times of need. Do you know what I'll tell you? I never would have believed you could manage stress. I definitely was one of the 81% and I definitely subscribed to the idea that life is just quite

inherently stressful, especially with our work. And I had this moment, again, the podcast is such a phenomenal part of my life. I feel like I learned so much from it every week. And I'm starting to realize this idea that actually, whilst you cannot control the external, you actually control so much more of the internal than I think we sometimes want to believe that we can. And we have a lot more power of choice of our mindset and starting to do that. So I do kind of probably 15 to 20 minutes of meditation every morning and every evening. And I think coupled with yoga and more interest in spirituality and the philosophy around it, I can genuinely hand on heart say I'm not feeling any external stress at the moment. And we've had some of the most

stressful events that have ever happened in the business over the last six weeks. And it's not that I don't care. It's just that that kind of reactive state has disappeared. And I feel like I can think and I can feel considered. And I don't feel like I'm drowning all the time. And yet nothing external has changed. It's all been those internal tools. So for anyone who's kind of thinking there's no way I could ever control my stress, I've just share that anecdote because I think I've been quite blown away by how powerful it's been.

Not instantly. It's been about two years of practicing building up, but the build up has been so worth it. I think that you hit the nail on the head there. It's those daily habits that have added up. If you were to suddenly act now, you might not get the same benefits. You know, just when you really need the stress management, it's almost a bit late at that point. It's still worth it. But I think it's adopting these healthy practices as early as possible and integrating them to our daily lives so that we don't just seek help when things are totally

unmanageable and out of control which is what many of us unfortunately do so it's making that time even if it's five minutes a day it can make a huge difference. So for stress you would say have a think about what you're doing actively even when you're not in a stressful state on a daily-ish basis to try and manage that. Absolutely so just a little tip that I have is on a Sunday evening I'll look at my week ahead and actually try and block out little chunks of time even if it's 10 minutes maybe between clients or at the end of the day or the start of the morning where you can add in something that's actually going to de-stress you whether it's a short walk maybe a little bit of yoga or mindfulness or maybe cooking a meal for yourself everyone has different things that they find I think reduce their own

stress so I think it's just drawing on those. So we're thinking about the other pillars and doing our little audit of them all if you you were thinking about movement, what should people be thinking about there? I love that you described it as movement, Ella, because that's exactly what it should be. We should be moving throughout the day. We should be avoiding sitting for long periods of time. And why is that? So we know that that increases our risk of chronic health issues and that it's one of the leading risk factors now. Many of us spend large amounts of time in sedentary jobs. I know that I spend a lot of time sitting in my job, so I have to make a really conscious effort to get up and move around. Just

even a couple of minutes every hour has been shown to make a difference. And splitting up movement throughout the day is especially helpful. So perhaps a 15 minute walk after a meal that can also help, for example, if you've got insulin resistance to reduce glucose excursions or spikes after a meal. So a little post lunch walk is a great little habit to have. But obviously, structured exercise. So something a bit more structured, whether it's strength training or going for a run is also very important. and we know that we should be aiming for at least 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise a week which is ideally up to an hour a day. But as far as I understand that's something yeah that we're kind of generally quite far off there

was a YouGov poll a few weeks ago said I think it was only 29% of people in the UK exercise twice a week. Definitely we are quite far off that and I you know I love the podcast you did with Dan Buechner where you talked about the blue zones and how people are moving naturally throughout the day so it's just being more conscious and mindful it could be things like instead of meeting a friend and sitting down and having a coffee could you go for a walk and enjoy a coffee whilst chatting to them and getting some movement in. Yeah I think that's such sage advice it's moving it as you're saying from thinking about exercise in the hardcore sense of the world which I think kind of makes

quite a few of us recoil the idea of burpees and press-ups some people love them but not for everyone and instead thinking about it as movement and that Dan exactly as you said when he was talking about habits to live to 100 was saying going on a walk 90% of the benefit of running a marathon one of those tidbits that have really stuck with me as well and what about for the pillar of sleep sleep is so neglected and sleep has it's fascinating how all of these pillars are interlinked when we don't sleep enough that affects our hormones the ghrelin and leptin our hunger and satiety hormones, and that can actually have a cascade effect. So it can result in us craving more salty and

sugary foods. So sleep is really important. And I think aiming for about seven to nine hours of restorative, good quality sleep is what most adults need. There are obviously going to be differences in what each individual needs, but I think making small shifts so if you're currently going to bed at 11 maybe just getting into bed 15 minutes earlier that sort of shift can make a huge difference and non-sleep deep rest so meditation and mindfulness can also really help. I always think that sleep is kind of the foundation of health isn't it because as you said you're clinically proven to want to eat more unhealthy foods to have less motivation to exercise if you've not slept well so it's almost like you're setting yourself up for failure if you want to start implementing healthy habits

if you keep staying up that bit later obviously sometimes not sleeping well is outside of our control but I think when little bits of it are within your control, it's just very interesting what an obstacle poor sleep makes. And then I think we're very quick to turn that on ourselves and think that we don't have good willpower. It can make every single challenge that we face in the day seem insurmountable. And so getting a good night's sleep is absolutely key. I actually noticed that in my own practice. I was seeing clients where when I looked at their food diaries, it looked like they were getting lots of fruits and veg, lots of whole grains, beans, nuts and seeds. And that's actually why I went into lifestyle medicine. And I got my diploma from the British

Society of Lifestyle Medicine, because I really noticed that a lot of my clients were experiencing this where they had what would look like a really high quality diet on paper, but they were not actually focusing on the other pillars of health. They were perhaps getting only five hours of sleep. And when I probed a bit further, they were spending a bit too long preparing their meals or stressing about other things. So that's why I decided to look at all these different aspects and take a more 360 degrees look at it. And what's fascinating about lifestyle medicine is it works hand in hand with Western medicine. It's not alternative. It's not complementary.

These are evidence-based therapeutic interventions. So we have the science to show that how we move, how we eat, how we sleep constantly influences us. So the choices that we make and our risk of chronic diseases that are the biggest killers in our modern day whether it's heart disease or type 2 diabetes. How did you find that in your own life Rahini because obviously I absolutely love you to tell listeners a little bit more about your own experience with your health. Did you find when you first were looking to support your own condition that you were looking for a magic answer I know I was so I'm curious about that for you. Oh definitely so I you know I actually really

struggled with my health particularly in my early 20s it was in my final year at university that I noticed that I was losing quite a lot of hair and I developed really severe cystic acne later Later on, I would find out this was actually the condition of polycystic ovary syndrome, which sounds like a mouthful. It's often referred to as PCOS. And it's actually the most common endocrine condition or hormonal condition to affect women. It affects at least one in 10 women. But some studies show that the prevalence might be even higher. And it has a wide range of effects. It's the most common cause of infertility, but also it's sort of like the cousin of type 2 diabetes. And actually people with PCOS have a three times higher risk of type 2 diabetes, higher risk of pregnancy-related diabetes,

cardiovascular disease, and even womb cancer. So this is often not addressed. And at the time, I didn't really know it was PCOS. My mother's a gynecologist, and she did point out that that could be the case. But I was 19. And the last person I wanted to listen to was my mother at the time. But over the next few years, I kind of went on a cycle of trying to find answers. And I would go and see different health professionals for different symptoms. So I would see dermatologists for my skin or naturopaths for my skin issues, personal trainers, because I would be trying to for my skin or naturopaths for my skin issues, personal trainers because I would be trying to manage the excess weight gain, gynecologists for my irregular periods. And no one was joining the dots and really helping me to understand how to manage

the condition. And I wasn't very aware as well of what was normal. And so it took a lot of years of trying different things. For a while, I would try and hit the gym or try things like a juice cleanse. But the results were short lived. And it was only when I was in my mid 20s that I really kind of decided that a change was needed. I was sort of coasting along in my job at the time I was working in quite a demanding industry in public relations and marketing for a lot of food companies, actually. And I got the opportunity to move to India to work for a healthy F&B company. And while I was there, that's when my lifestyle had a huge shift. I started to eat foods that I previously thought were not really too full of sugar. So fruit being one of them, I started to eat a huge variety of fruit, and whole grains, beans, nuts and seeds. And this was just sort of a standard Indian diet. There's a

huge amount of plant-based foods in Indian culture that are naturally occurring where the plate is centered around these foods. And that opened up my eyes to a whole new way of eating, a whole new way of living. And I found that my anxiety subsided, my skin began to clear up, my period started to become more regular, and I actually felt like a totally different person. How long did it take you to see those results? Within a few weeks I started seeing the results and I noticed it wasn't just the food that had changed, there were also other shifts that had taken place. So I noticed being in a sunnier country that I actually, my circadian rhythms had altered so I was getting better quality sleep at night. I also had started to exercise more as I had more energy from changing my diet.

So I found that all of these things were interlinked. Getting more vitamins, minerals, antioxidants through my diet gave me that extra energy to go for that walk or go for that run. And it was, I'm not suggesting everyone moves to India, but really what made the huge shift was actually changing my environment. And I think that we can actually do that within our own lives and in our own homes by changing our food habits, the meals that we're choosing for breakfast, lunch and dinner, perhaps making the shift in our own friendship group to try and do activities together that are outdoors or involve some kind of activity you don't need to move to a different country to get those benefits.

And did you find that after a few more months that you continue to feel better and your symptoms continue to subside and then it just became your life and I presume you haven't had a recurrence of the symptoms I mean you seem so well looking at you today. No definitely so I found that after a few months I just felt like a completely different person I had more energy in my late 20s than I had in my late teens and that itself was just sort of proof that I should continue with this lifestyle and alongside that I'd started to look into nutrition trying trying to understand it. And I realised that perhaps, you know, the juice cleansers that I was supporting weren't really the ones that were going to promote people's health. And I started to

really understand the role of fibre in human health. And that's when I decided to come back to the UK and do my MSc in nutrition and food science. And I really wanted to try to impact other people's lives around me. So what is important to mention is that PCOS is a chronic condition and there's no cure for it. But you can effectively manage the symptoms using lifestyle. And I have noticed for myself that whenever I let stress get really on top of me or I perhaps am choosing foods that aren't really nourishing me, I will see a flare up of the symptoms. And it's really looking at where I was before, you know, where I had such severe cystic acne, it was hard for me to leave my room. And these are really stigmatising symptoms. Some of the common symptoms in PCOS are things like excess hair growth or hair loss, putting on weight, irregular periods,

even having higher rates of things like OCD and anxiety which I definitely struggled with and I know many people with PCOS will relate to and if this sounds like things that you might have then definitely you know try and seek medical advice but I have been able to manage the condition using lifestyle modifications I found out later that you know my blood sugars were far too high so changing and focusing on a whole food plant-based diet has been a really important tool for me my own father had type 2 diabetes and was able to put it in remission and that really inspired me to continue with focusing on eating as many whole plant foods as possible so were you able to help your dad then yeah my father actually

was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and And I was terrified when I heard that, obviously for my father, but I also knew that I was at higher risk of that condition. And we know that British Asians in the UK have a six times higher risk of type 2 diabetes than white Europeans in this country. So we have specifically higher rates of chronic disease. And I knew that genes do not have to be your destiny and that I wanted to make decisions early on. I actually think PCOS in a way has been one of the best things because it enabled me to change my lifestyle early on, perhaps at an age when many people around me were not really thinking about their health and well-being and has enabled me to adopt a healthy lifestyle for the rest of my life. I don't see it as something that just stopped

the moment I left India or that, you know, will stop at Christmas or something. It's something that I have to continue if I want to reduce my risk of chronic diseases. And I want to mention that not everyone with PCOS can just manage everything with lifestyle modifications alone. And this is true for absolutely every chronic illness. Every single person is different and there shouldn't be any medication shaming or, you know, shaming around surgery and things like that. It's every single person is different, but it's understanding that lifestyle can help you even if you have to take medications or you do need surgery, lifestyle might help with your recovery or reduce your need for medications or further complications in the future. I relate to so much of what you just

said, Rohini, and I think it's so empowering but I think one of the things that's so interesting just because as I said I relate to it so deeply is I just remember so much if someone when I was at my darkest point with my illness and I really couldn't leave the house and I was I just didn't see the point really in being around I was just I was kind of catatonically depressed and you know if someone had come into my room then and said like this is the best thing that whatever happened to you you're so ill that you can't do anything you've got no friends you've got no prospects in life you've got literally nothing going for you but don't worry this is amazing I would have oh my gosh I would have been

so angry kind of indescribably angry. And yet for the same, so many of the same reasons, getting unwell all the way back in 2011 was really the best thing that ever happened to me. It created a trajectory, a sense of purpose, passion, meaning in my life that has spiraled into so many different things and truly hand on heart, none of this would have happened. And I'm so much happier because it's been this repercussions of discovering healthy eating and then getting interested in yoga has led me to mindfulness building a really positive relationship with myself healing lots of things I never ever I don't think would have this sense of inner contentment and calm and stress management that we were talking about earlier

if that hadn't all have happened and I just think it's very powerful that you felt the same because I'm sure there's people listening in difficult places and as you said there's no one-size-fits-all there's no magic but it's kind of showing up and trying to do the work in some capacity every single day and adapting all the advice you hear for you but it's still very inspiring to know that from a really difficult place a really fantastic journey can occur I just I got goosebumps with what you're saying because I relate to it so strongly and I think many people at the time around me didn't actually know what I was going through and I'm sure it's the same for you and there's so many people out there who are living with chronic illness on the outside you might look completely you know normal and well

well and functioning but you might be really suffering on the inside and I found that it was a huge catalyst for the rest of my life it set me on a path of doing something I'm so passionate about and studying nutrition becoming a nutritionist and lifestyle medicine professional and actually talking about things like PCOS, which I would have just, I can't even imagine back then, I wouldn't tell even my closest friends that I was dealing with that, because I found it so shameful, so stigmatizing. And actually, I'm burdening myself from that and realizing that we are all human. Lifestyle and diet is not a panacea, but it's an incredibly powerful tool. And more people deserve to know

the science around it. Once I empowered myself with the science and the evidence, I felt really confident to go out there and share that. And that's why I do what I do. I love it. Your other passion comes across in droves. And I think that moves us on so nicely to your second piece for advice, this idea that, you know, everyone deserves to and can be empowered to make change but to trust that it takes a little bit of time to form these new habits and to see the results it might not be something like when you have tonsillitis and you take antibiotics and the next day you feel better absolutely everyone's different and you have to get over those initial hurdles which can be really hard at the start it's very tempting to give up and easy to give up. But it's sort of sticking with that because you know that that is backed up by

the science. Obviously, you've got to listen to your body as well. But the initial steps can be hard. For example, if you're moving from a standard Western diet to a more whole food plant-based way of eating, you might be increasing your fibre intake. That might result in some initial bloating and things like that. So it's just educating yourself and maybe understanding that it could be helpful to add more spices in to help with digestion, really chewing your food, and maybe starting with smaller lentils rather than beans first. All of these little things can make a huge difference. So just sticking with that initial pain point. I think also one of the things certainly I saw in my own health journey but I feel seems very common and I don't know if you felt the same is that so often it's not a

linear journey either it's not just that every day is one step forward until you reach kind of this moment of perfection it's actually one step forward two step back sometimes and so on and so forth. Absolutely and I think that's why it's it journey. It's not just a destination. You're kind of constantly learning, you're constantly evolving. I'm constantly finding out new things and picking up different bits of advice and also learning what works for my body at different times. So I think that that process of education and evolution never ends really. And presumably you've got a whole host of different clients, patients with all sorts of various different conditions that they see management or respite or improvement from. What sort of conditions do you see there? I think a lot of people are struggling with their gut health. So we know that

currently in the UK, only about one in 10 UK adults meets the recommendation for fibre. So the RDA for fibre is about 30 grams and the average intake is 18 grams. So it's 60% of what it should be. And we know that fibre is absolutely essential. You've talked about this a lot on various podcasts that you've done on the impact of fiber on the gut microbiome and many people don't actually realize that fiber is only found in plants it's not found in any animal derived products whatsoever so you need both soluble and insoluble fiber and that's something that I work on a lot with people that I work with is just including more fiber in their diet and understanding the importance of that so things like IBS you know eight out of ten people who've got irritable bowel syndrome are women and we know that changing your

diet although not automatically adding in lots of fiber rich food initially these little things can make a huge difference and even focusing on things like deep breathing stress management techniques getting more movement and these can all help with these sorts of conditions. But I do work with various people who sometimes are trying to manage chronic conditions, as well as those who want to prevent future issues and complications. And I think, particularly if you're someone like me, who has that genetic history, perhaps, you know that you're genetically predisposed to type two diabetes or heart disease, you want to make positive steps in the right direction early and we know that actually most of us have a risk of these issues so we want to try and bring in changes as

early as possible I think you're never too young they've shown that even children as young as 10 in the UK are having signs of insulin resistance so I believe that this starts at a really early age. One of the things I love is how much you talk about empowering people and I think with that comes knowledge and in the knowledge comes compassion for the fact that this isn't easy but also kind of how your body's working and I think one of the things that you talk about that's so interesting is that it takes time for your palate to change and obviously it's kind of almost 60% of the foods we eat in the UK, and it's very similar around the Western world, come from ultra-processed foods. So our palates aren't necessarily best set up, are they, to love crudités as a snack versus a Mars bar?

Oh, you're so right, Ella. So these ultra-processed foods are really food-like substances, and they are able to hijack our brain's reward centre. And they contain high levels of salt, oil and sugar, and other things like emulsifiers and additives, which are hyperpalatable. So we keep seeking those and some of us may be more predisposed than others to seek those out. And having a lot of these sorts of foods in our diet does not only does it affect our gut microbiome, but it also can affect our palate. And so the natural sweetness of a carrot or the crunch of an apple might not quite hit the spot in the same way. But I want to give people hope that, you know, it's actually resensitize your palate can take between 30 to 90 days, which sounds like a long time. And there's research studies showing that it takes different amounts of time. So

I don't think that there's, you you know one clear answer and everyone is different but simple things that we can do are actually introducing new foods and textures with foods that are already familiar to us so if you already love a chicken stir-fry and you've got a marinade that you really enjoy that you make at home maybe some some peanut butter, a bit of maple syrup, some soy sauce, you could swap the chicken for tofu. And that's just a simple swap. So you're introducing a new food there that's really beneficial whilst reducing your intake of animal food. But you're actually increasing the fibre, the plant protein, all of these things in a way that's really familiar. So I think it's just swapping out something for something else that's new but in

a way that you're familiar with. I remember when I was changing my diet and someone saying to me you know but strawberries are really sweet and as someone who is eating a fair amount of haribo and kind of fizzy sweets and things like that and sort of dairy milk chocolate I remember thinking a strawberry is not sweet and it was so interesting after I changed my diet and suddenly realizing actually those sorts of foods have so much more flavor but there was a very interesting study recently that you mentioned I'd love you to tell our listeners about about babies in their mom's tummies and the way that they respond to different foods yeah there was some really interesting research I I think they looked at 100 mothers and they gave them different pills just so that the ingredients, I think,

would actually make it to the right place. So some with kale and some with carrot. And they actually used 4D ultrasound scans to scan the faces of infants in the womb. And they found that there were more crying faces in response to the kale and more smiling happy faces in response to the carrot obviously kale does elicit that bitter taste and it's just really interesting I think they've obviously known that newborns can taste and are influenced by the maternal diet but they're finding that it starts at a much earlier age and this is some of the first research of its kind showing that we actually have the ability to taste from a really early age and this isn't to put pressure on pregnant women I think they already have so much pressure sometimes on changing your diet but what it does show

is that our taste can be influenced from a really early age and actually it's never too early to be thinking about these things and changing the way that we think about food. I'm really conscious though of when I'm giving advice to clients of just saying oh this is delicious make the salad and it tastes amazing or make this dish because I'm aware that where they're starting at particularly if they've been following sort of standard western diet those foods might not be particularly palatable to begin with and I try to empathize I try to relate back to how I felt when I was changing my diet that those foods perhaps were not foods that I was craving it's sort of the way that sometimes if you're maybe a personal trainer you might say just

find exercise that you love you know for a lot of people beginning their exercise or their movement journey they may not find exercise enjoyable but it's the same with changing your diet after a while once you've been doing these things consistently you do find that you return to those foods that make you feel good and that nourish you and your taste buds do change. But initially, you might not find that that is the case. And I just want to give people that hope because not everyone was raised, you know, eating lots of vegetables and fruit and things like that. Certainly, we know that I think only 17% of UK teenagers gets their five a day. So I just want to give people that hope that your palate can

absolutely change but it might not be immediate you said there that 17 percent of teenagers in the UK eat their five a day and I think becoming a mum has made me acutely aware of how difficult it is to get my children but our children in general eating well and I think a huge part of that is the realization of the extent to which our culture is focused on to call a spade a spade pretty unhealthy foods that's the norm and I think for me that thinking moves us on very well to your third piece of advice and I wondered if you could introduce that. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. You're a podcast listener and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian

listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn ads. Email bob at libsyn.com to learn more. That's b-o-b at l-i-b-s-y-n dot com. So yeah, absolutely. I think my third piece of advice is really focusing on getting more diversity in your diet, that diversity of plants. And we know that focusing more on abundance rather than restriction can be especially helpful. And this is what I always, this is the approach that I take with everyone. You mentioned sort of unhealthy foods there. And I think sometimes it's really easy to even think of foods in that black and white

category of unhealthy or healthy. But for a lot of people, that can be quite negative and disempowering. So focusing on that big picture of all the different foods that you can have and that you can enjoy that are going to nourish you. I think there are over 30,000 edible plant species, but we tend to eat the same ones and that's for a variety of reasons. But the American Gut Project, which is one of the largest studies of its kind to evaluate the impact of diet on the gut microbiome, it looked at 10,000 participants, actually found that those who ate 30 or more different plant foods a week

had a healthier and more diverse gut microbiome, which we know, of course, influences so many different things, including our risk for the chronic diseases that are the biggest killers in our modern day society. It's funny when you say there are 30,000 different options, but you only need to eat 30. It suddenly sounds quite easy doesn't it no the reason that I related your third piece of advice to that point about children was I think what I'm just becoming I think it was the lens of actually motherhood that's really sharpened to me this sense that in the world we live in today in so many western countries certainly in kind of busy cities in the UK, is that there's almost a sort of counterculture to eat healthily. Yes, it's part of the mainstream narrative now in the way that

it wasn't 10 years ago. But I'll pick my daughter up from nursery and she says, can I have a lollipop? Because my friend has a lollipop. And I'm not against them having birthday cake at parties. And I think that mindset and that balance is really important. You know and I'm not against them having birthday cake at parties and I think that mindset and that balance is really important you know I don't want them to look at some foods as good and some foods as bad and create that more complex relationship but equally on a Tuesday lunchtime I'd love to take her home and give her a meal that's going to be nourishing and support her energy and her brain development and all the rest of it. But, you know, everything in the newsagent is lollipops and so on and so forth. You know, you go to the cinema and those

are the only options. You know, you go to most restaurants and those are options. And it's just, it's almost like all day, every day to eat healthily. You're always choosing the alternative. We're so far from healthy living, just being a normal part of what we do. You know, you mentioned Dan Buna earlier in the episode, and that's what he was talking about in these blue zones where people live the longest, healthiest lives. Their culture that exists around them is one where it's so normal to eat chickpeas and carrots and peppers and lentils and almonds, as opposed to that being an alternative decision. As I said, whilst it's now a much easier decision, it still feels like you're going against the grain. Totally. I think we're working within a really difficult food environment. You know,

even if you go to the hospital, the vending machines are going to be full of ultra processed snacks. You can't actually find in many places a healthy plant-based meal. But as you said, there are cultures around the world which have had healthy eating habits naturally embedded within the culture. So plant-based diets, for example, are nothing new. They have been part of different civilizations around the world for hundreds, if not thousands of years, whether you look at East Asia or places like India, where predominantly the diet is plant-based. It's based around whole grains, beans, nuts and seeds, fruits and vegetables.

And this isn't this newfangled or hyper-privileged thing. And actually, these are foods that all of us can access regardless of our cultural background. I work with lots of people from different cultures. And I think adapting this way of eating so that it's something that you enjoy no matter whether you're from Greece or you're from Taiwan actually Taiwan 17% of the population identify as vegetarians so it's really interesting a lot of people don't realize that this is not this I think often plant-based eating is seen as very niche almost extremist and some places becoming more and more acceptable but this is part of cultures around the world and it's something that I found that when I was living in

India I wasn't going on a diet I was just naturally eating foods like dal like khichdi like tropical fruits and vegetables and things that I hadn't actually come across before. And what do you say to clients because I think this is something a lot of people listening will say, which is that I've heard all this. I hear you. I so want to do this. I feel low mood. I feel continuous anxiety or I'm struggling with sleep or digestion or, you know, energy, immunity, so many of the things that, you know, we've kind of touched on that lifestyle medicine can support. But, you you know I find it really difficult because none of my colleagues eat like this or none of my family want to eat like this

and it feels like so much extra work because as we were saying it's almost like we're continuously doing something different like making my own lunch boxes that people kind of laugh at. It's such a good point and one of the pillars of Lifestyle Medicine that we actually haven't touched on yet is the role of community and relationships so if you find that you don't have that supportive buddy or you know partner that's going to come along with you on your journey perhaps finding an online community or even a colleague or a friend that can actually join you maybe you can actually go and have a meal together or prepare food together or go and do a yoga class together. That is great for accountability and support. I think that can make a world of difference. And it's obviously easier if you live in a bigger city,

but now we have the internet at our fingertips and community has never been more important. I think loneliness is such a contributor. And we know that it's a huge contributor to Alzheimer's disease and dementia, which is now the number one killer of women in the UK. So and this has definitely been worsened during the COVID-19 pandemic. So actually, I think finding that support, even if it's not who you think it is, it might not be your partner or your family. But finding someone who can join you can make it just normalise it for you and for them as well. Yeah, I think that's such lovely advice. Well, I feel like that's a that sense of community. Hopefully people will feel that listening and know that there's people dotted all around the

world listening to this and on the same journey as them. And I know I always find that really reassuring and gives me a lot of hope and excitement for the collective change we might see in the future but Rohini just massive thank you for joining us. Thanks so much Ella I really loved it. I've worked with Rohini a fair bit over the last 12 months or so she was one of the contributors in our book How to Go Plant Based and we're doing a few projects at the moment with her around our app so keep an eye out for that in January I just love the way that she really breaks down the plausibility of improving small elements of our wellness the need to look at the 360 and not

get too bogged down in small details and think broccoli is the answer for everything which I think the creeping in of diet culture into our lives can make all too easy as a thought process so I hope you took a lot from that and we did have a very interesting conversation with her for Fact or Fad and she had lots to say. This week on Fact or Fad we're going to be talking about cycle syncing and before I ask Gemma what she thinks here is Rohini's take. I think anything that helps you to get to know your body better is great as periods can definitely be thought of as that fifth vital sign however there's no evidence to suggest that there are specific foods that you can only eat in your follicular phase or your luteal phase for example so actually enjoying a predominantly whole food plant-based diet getting enough sleep getting movement in spending time with loved ones and managing your stress is going

to help you at all stages of your cycle so is it a fact is it a fad let's find out what Dr Gemma Newman thinks so Gemma we've got very interesting topic i think for this week's trend which is cycle thinking before we get into the science of it what is it well basically it's where you alter your diet or your exercise routine or maybe even sometimes your social calendar depending on where you are in your menstrual cycle and the idea behind it is that we have certain hormonal shifts at different stages in our cycle, which means that we should focus on different areas of nutrition or focus on different kinds of activity to supplement or improve our response to those hormonal shifts. That's the idea behind it. And it's an absolute concrete fact that we are having those shifts. It's a concrete fact that we have hormonal

fluctuations throughout our menstrual cycle, yes. There hasn't been any science that I can find on cycle thinking. For example, you know, what you should specifically eat in your follicular phase, what you should eat in your luteal phase. But it's something that I think is interesting, especially for athletes, because there is some science behind tailoring your physical activity based on where you are in your cycle and it's something that I know that a lot of athletes are now looking at to try and optimize their performance in training and obviously on the day of a big race or something like that so it's really interesting to look at but we don't have any solid facts when it comes to the nutrition side of it.

From an exercise perspective, what was the sort of data that was emerging there? So when it comes to exercise and cycle thinking, the data is that clearly when you are menstruating, it's going to be harder for you to push your body to that extent that you would when you were maybe ovulating because your oestrogen levels are at their lowest versus being at their highest and you know when you go through the beginning of that menstrual phase then into the follicular phase those hormones start to rise which means then that you're probably going to be able to achieve your personal bests more at that time and then as your hormones again start to change in that luteal phase ready to shed the womb lining you may find that it's harder then to achieve your personal best if you're looking at it from an athletic point of view just based on those hormonal fluctuations. So I think it's something

that people say okay well maybe you should focus in your menstrual phase on more yoga or more restorative type activities and when you're around ovulation and sort of leading up to ovulation in that last bit of the follicular phase, you could do your high intensity interval training or, you know, the things that push your body more. That's the principle behind it. And what's the proposed difference that you would have in your nutrition during the different stages of the cycle? It's complicated. What I've read shows that there are certain types of food that may be more beneficial at different times of the cycle. But when you look at the body as a whole, you don't really have that much of a shift in nutrients day to day, week to week.

So I find it hard to see how that has as much relevance as it would for your sporting activities but it's still interesting so as an example in the menstrual phase at the beginning of the follicular phase the focus is on warming foods like soups and stews and slow cooked meals and curries anti-inflammatory foods like turmeric and ginger to reduce cramping and iron rich foods because you'll be obviously bleeding and losing blood so things that will replenish your iron stores omega-3 rich foods are also recommended and to be honest I'd say that that's actually useful all the time but I think that what I've read there are certain people that say well let's focus on those at that time so that you know that you're replacing

things that you're losing. And then going into the follicular phase, which is just after menstruation and right up to when you ovulate in the middle of your cycle, they talk about things like protein and cruciferous vegetables to help support your metabolism, estrogen, vitamin E rich foods as well to help your growing follicles to be nourished. And so I think fiber as well, they talk about zinc rich foods to help you support the release of your egg. I mean, this all sounds really nice, but I think it's hard for me to see how this specifically relates to one day or one week in your cycle when to me, these are really helpful foods all the time. So yeah yeah I think

there's no science that I can see on specific cycling of nutrition but it's nice to have a focus on nutrition at different stages of the cycle, why not? Do you have more inflammation during your cycle for example? I think what's true to say is especially around the premenstrual phase at the end of the luteal phase, and when you're bleeding during your period, there is definitely a shift in symptoms. So for example, your womb lining produces prostaglandins, which then cause you to cramp and experience diarrhea, for example, once they get into the bloodstream.

And so many people will have cramping, pain, and they'll just feel like they want to cuddle up with a hot water bottle. And that's because of not only the oestrogen and progesterone changes, but also because of the prostaglandins produced by the womb lining. So in that scenario, I think it actually really is helpful to increase certain foods like, as I mentioned, turmeric and ginger, making sure you've got enough vitamin D, because all these things are helpful to reduce the prostaglandins produced at the womb lining and hopefully also reduce those symptoms. So that has a specific use and function. Some people like to do seed cycling and in the luteal phase, which is the bit after ovulation,

just before your period, people would suggest that you have sunflower seeds and tahini because they contain lignans that can help increase progesterone and get rid of excess oestrogen and they recommend things like magnesium rich foods like spinach and dark chocolate and legumes to alleviate PMS but I think seed cycling to me seems to be probably over and above what's needed I think it makes things too complicated for people and it's not really necessary. But yeah, it's an interesting thing to be aware of. And I guess a nice symbolism of our increased interest in our bodies and what's happening in our bodies and our connection to that. Yeah, exactly. And I think it sounds good to be more

in touch with the body. And it's something that helps us perhaps to be more mindful in life generally to understand where we are in our cycle it's a nice thing to be aware of as long as it doesn't make you anxious yeah yeah that's very valid it's interesting before you say fact or fact because there's some trends that we've looked at where i think it's very important to know that there's not a huge amount of evidence and you could end up spending a lot of money on it or go down a rabbit hole and it may not be that helpful to your total well-being. Whereas, as you said, this is kind of focusing you on foods that are very, very good for you all the time, but perhaps you don't need to get too caught up on exactly what you're eating on

each individual day, as opposed to across the month and really nourishing your body with all of those nutrient-rich foods. Yeah, exactly. I think especially when it comes to sports science, this is an emerging fact, but when it comes to the nutrition side, I don't really see much point in being specific at the follicular phase or the luteal phase, but if it helps you to be more aware of your body and what's going on in your body, then that's a good thing. I should also point out that if you're on a hormonal contraceptive, heal phase but if it helps you to be more aware of your body and what's going on in your body then that's a good thing i should also point out that if you're on a hormonal contraceptive your normal cycle will be altered because you won't be ovulating you'll be suppressing your ovulation so you won't have those normal sort of cyclical changes that you're looking out for in this

particular trend that's such a good point yeah so that it for me. I think this has been a pretty epic episode, actually. I really enjoyed how much nutritional information we got in there. And I hope you feel that it's been delivered in a really helpful way. Would love to hear from you. Please do share it at Deliciously Ella on social, email us podcast at deliciouslyella.com and next week I'm going to be diving deeper into nutrition specifically looking at the power of our gut health of our gut microbiome with Tim Spector who is really let's just be honest a guru in this space he is truly pioneering work that I think will dictate huge swathes of our health policy, of government strategy. He is just extraordinary. So it's a real honour to have him in the studio

with us. And then in fact or fad, we're going to be looking at meal replacements. And I guess a caveat, I go on a bit of a soapbox for this one. So I will see you back here next week. I hope you enjoyed this. Thank you so much for tuning in. Please do will see you back here next week. I hope you enjoyed this. Thank you so much for tuning in. Please do rate it, review it, share it, as I said. And as always, a massive thank you to Curly Media, who are our partners in this production. You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn Ads. Email bob at libsyn.com to learn more.

That's B-O-B at L-I-B-S-Y-N dot com.