The Wellness Scoop - The Extra Scoop: Anxiety 101

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Anxiety affects millions of people and is on the rise, but do we really understand what it is and how it manifests? In this 15-minute conversation, we'll share practical tools for managing anxiety in daily life, explore the difference between everyday anxiety and clinical anxiety, and look at why it shows up so differently for everyone. To help us break it down, we’re joined by Dr. Marianne Trent, Specialist Clinical Psychologist, who provides expert insights into anxiety, how it affects individuals differently, and the most effective ways to manage it. In This Episode, We Cover: What anxiety really is and whether we should see it as a normal part of life The difference between everyday anxiety and clinical anxiety How personal experiences shape how anxiety manifests The most effective tools for managing anxiety, especially in overwhelming moments How to accept and live with your reality Dr. Marianne Trent is the author of The Clinical Psychologist Collective: Advice & Guidance for Aspiring Clinical Psychologists Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Extra Scoop, our expert-led bonus episodes, giving you the need to know on the topics everybody is talking about. That's right, from gut health to sleep, hormones to skin, we are cutting through the noise with top experts, so there is no fluff, just facts. Exactly, it's all quick, practical, evidence-based advice to fit into your busy lives. So this is the Extra Scoop. Let's get started. Marianne, welcome to the show. We're so thrilled to have you. And today we're going to talk about anxiety.

Do we all have it? I think so many of us spend a lot of our life wondering if we're normal, what we're experiencing is normal. And anxiety is often top of those list of those very human emotions that most of us experience at different periods in our life. It affects millions of us, it's on the rise. But I think the question we both have is do we all really understand what it actually is and how it manifests? So in this 15-minute conversation, we're going to explore that difference between everyday anxiety and clinical anxiety, why it shows up so differently for everybody and share some very practical tools for managing it in our daily lives.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, we've got a huge stat, Marianne. So anxiety, it's sort of like a buzzword now because it affects 8 million people. And I think that statistic's rising in the UK. So most of us, do we really understand what anxiety is and how it manifests in daily life? And should we be more accepting of it as normal? Is it a totally human part of our lives? If we start there, if you could help our listeners, that would be amazing. Sure. So yeah, I think it's obviously really good to be here, by the way, but I think anxiety, it is part of the human experience, but it isn't perhaps as trendy as we might think

it is. It's always been around. It's a really important kind of defense for us really. Even if you're ever working with older adults or chatting to older adults, they might talk about it as my nerves. What that means is anxiety. Even as a psychologist, it took me a long time to join up those dots. I think what has changed is the level of exposure, the level of acceptance, the level of validation.

Whilst that can be really good, it can also be invalidating sometimes because it might make you think, well, this is just an internal part of me. I just need to be able to put up with this and kind of shut up really. But actually, if this is maybe a family story that all of you kind of struggle with anxiety, then maybe it's about different attachments, about different parenting styles. It might not be something that you need to necessarily just put up with. And so, yes, having this conversation is important, but also knowing that we don't have to keep it

and to know that actually in its normal, kind of innocuous state, it's just supposed to kind of warn us about danger or risk and prepare us and help us actually do our best to, you know, to do presentations or to do things that are a little bit out of the ordinary so that it kind of gets everything flowing and helps us bring out a game. But if it becomes outside those limits, that's where it's not quite so okay. And so how do you draw that distinction between experiencing anxiety as that normal part of life and struggling with

it in a more clinical sense. Because I think, as Rui said earlier, both of us have experienced anxiety in different ways in our lives. I suffered really badly actually with postpartum anxiety, which was my most extreme experience of it. And I think it was very difficult, certainly at that point, for me to imagine that that feeling would ever leave me and that it almost felt it was defining me at that point. And actually, I'm very grateful after about six months, that really did change. But that's something we've both been talking about a lot is how do we see it as something that's just lasting hours, something that's lasting maybe a period in our life and something that is much more long standing. maybe a period in our life and something that is much more long standing. Yeah, it's really tricky, isn't it with with becoming a parent, or, you know, new parent or subsequent babies, everything that we go through, and obviously, the sleep deprivation alongside

that it's a big deal. But when anxiety becomes more clinical, I think is when it starts to impact on someone's well being on their ability to have their relationships, to work, to study, perhaps to parent. Obviously, at the extreme end, if it impacts on their risk to themselves or those around them, perhaps as a result of taking unprescribed medication or prescribed medication to excess or even non-intentional self-injurious or self-harming behaviors. But sleep is so big, such an important factor for anxiety. Yeah, I think if it is impacting on your functioning, your ability to get everything done that would be typical for you to get done in your day, if it's impacting on your well-being, if it's

impacting on how many problems you feel you've got weighing down on you and then your risk, but also, you know, like I said, your sleep and your relationships and how you feel about yourself really, that for me is when it becomes a clinical issue, something that someone absolutely should begin to think about tackling for their own benefit, but also those around them. So if it's become a clinical issue, is that when you need to go to your GP? Because Ella mentioned you know she experienced this postpartum and I for instance have been diagnosed with breathing pattern disorder which took me two years to get that diagnosis. And I think it can manifest for different people in so many different ways.

And that's what probably, as you've just said, makes it so hard to actually be like, oh, is this something I really should be going to my doctor about? But why does it show in different ways? Why did I, for instance, have breathing pattern disorder? I have had problems breathing and the hypervigilance that I know Ella and I both experience. So many people get different symptoms, don't they? They do, they do. And I know with you and your singing, obviously breathing is a big deal, Rhiannon, but we are all individuals, we are all different. And

where we stand, how close we stand to anxiety will differ from day to day, minute to minute. How we've been parented, in the late 90s, there was a rise of less attachment, parented more manualized parenting. Actually that often has led to the children that have been parented and the adults they've become not feeling that safe, not being able to soothe themselves, invalidating themselves. Often people will say to me,

well, I don't know why I feel anxious or depressed. And when we dig deeper, actually they've kind of got PTSD symptoms or they've got complex trauma even from their experiences of being raised. And it's interesting you mentioned the breathing pattern stuff, but I don't know if you guys have heard of it.

It might be a little bit too technical, but heart rate variability, which is actually the gaps in between your heart rate. And when that is poor, it can lead to a trauma presentation, but actually your breathing is much shallower. So your breathing will be kind of just throat really. People often don't realize that they're doing that, but when I'm reviewing people in

clinic, I'm looking at how they're breathing. Do they ever get to the bottom of their lungs and actually just sitting with them and practicing not wearing your shoulders as earrings? I think you might be leaning your shoulders on a table, Rhiannon, yours look a little high, but just dropping those, there we go, dropping those down and just having that regular check-in. We are all so different. And even where we are with kind of menopause,

perimenopause, our cycles, all of that, and grief. Grief can make you feel so anxious. But also, as you guys would know, with physical health, sometimes certain conditions can lead to higher cortisol, to lower estrogen, to lower progesterone. And that can lead to anxiety, but also low vitamin D, low iron. That can make you feel horrendously anxious. It might feel like anxiety, but what I would say is if it doesn't feel normal for you, then it might not be mental health. It's important that we rule out physical health, but also let's not invalidate people's experience. Let's really think about what they've been through, help them understand

what they're experiencing, help them accept it, control it, maybe even change it. And in that acceptance, what are the most effective ways of managing it, the tools, the techniques that people can bring into their everyday lives, especially when you're feeling overwhelmed? And I think as part of that acceptance, as we were talking about earlier, that anxiety at moments is just going to be a very, very normal emotion for us. But I imagine there are still things that we can do to help feel better. One of the most important things I think is just to take a moment and just check in with ourselves and recognize when we might be thinking that our thoughts are facts. So, you might say, oh no, I'm anxious.

Oh, this is awful. This is going to be another big bout of me not being able to leave the house for three months and everything going to pot. Instead, we might say, oh, I'm having the thought that this could be the start of anxiety. Then almost that helps you separate yourself from that, gets you a little bit of breathing space. When we've got that, you literally drop your shoulders. Take a moment just to ground yourself.

Make sure you're never wearing those shoulders as earrings. They have a tendency of creeping up. just take a breath through your nose, do that together shall we, take a breath through your nose, hold that for a moment, breathe out through your mouth if you can, trying to make your out-breath longer than your in-breath, hold that out-breath for a moment. If you've got a bigger lung capacity, that will take you longer, but hold the out-breath for a moment. Then breathe in again through your nose. Hold that one for a moment. Breathe out through your mouth. This is called our soothing rhythm breathing. Often just three cycles of this. We'll do one more

when you're ready. Breathe in through your nose. Hold that for a moment. Breathe out through your mouth. Always aiming to get that out-breath longer than the in-breath. And actually for that heart rate variability that we mentioned, there's medication that can treat that, but actually, you know, the symptoms are side effects to that. The breathing also treats that heart rate variability. So that checking in with yourself, checking in with your breathing, and just taking that moment to do your breathing really can expand your window of tolerance

to make everything feel slower, calmer, more resilient. And then of course, movement, exercise, sleep, really thinking about your caffeine. So, so many people in clinic might come with a coffee, come with a tea, come with an energy drink. That can be the enemy of anxiety actually. So just having a look at the way you live your life, how you talk to yourself, what your flavor of self-talk is like, and trying to just really make breathing your thing, journaling, talking to someone, and

de-shaming this process is absolutely key, I think. From listening to you, it sounds like there's a handful of lifestyle factors that are very important to look at first. Regular exercise. I read something recently where only about 20% of women our age are exercising the recommended 150 minutes a week. So I think it's something so many of us struggle to fit into busy days. But thinking about exercise, looking at your vitamin D levels in particular, regular sleep, being able to try and separate your thoughts and not define yourself by those initial thoughts. Is there anything else you would add to that list as

first port of calls for people to be thinking about? Yeah, I think a really nice one is really thinking about grounding yourself. So sometimes it's helpful to think about where are my feet at the moment? Oh, okay, they're in my socks, they're in my slippers, right? Let me just connect to that. Let me see if I can feel the floor pressing up through that. Can I notice my toes? Can I notice other parts of my body? Just really trying to ground ourselves in the moment. And then also thinking about the 5-4-3-2-1 method that you might have heard of. What five things can I see? If you do your breathing at the same time,

it can be really helpful as a soothing strategy. What four things can I hear? What three things can I touch? What two things can I smell? What one thing can I taste, perhaps? Maybe it's just something you've got with your drink, maybe it's the toothpaste that you've just pressed your teeth with, maybe you have like a polo or something like that, just to help you to

tune into that. But sometimes having a really nice soothing smell that's unique for you, some people like peppermint, some people like a particularly scented candle, that helps them to think about the now, but really tuning in to those senses. It's our survival strategy, it's the bunny in the forest that actually will be startled. Then he will use his feet to think, well, can I feel any earthquake? No, I can't.

Can I smell any burning? No, I can't. Can I see a fox? No, I can't. And once we kind of rule all of those out, all of our senses tend to kind of hopefully come more online, so that we can then just get on with our think we often need to be reminded that we have control and we are able to do grounding techniques. But if somebody has gone to their GP for this, are they likely to be prescribed lifestyle

techniques first before embarking upon another medicalised kind of route? Just if anyone listening is thinking, well, will my GP tell me to do these techniques? Will I get support? What is there out there for them? I think it's really difficult, isn't it? And what we know is that by the time people reach out to their GP, they've kind of already had enough. They might have already tried sensible strategies.

And so it's really tricky to ask somebody that's struggling with anxiety to become more assertive. Taking a note in your phone and actually when someone perhaps tries to do first line defense of perhaps try going for a walk or go out and do this, try that, actually it's knowing that it's okay to have a conversation about that. You're not necessarily having to say, okay, I'll go and try that. It's okay to self-advocate. If you know you find that tricky, it's also okay to take someone with you or you just

have notes in your phone to be able to talk about the things you've tried. Also, I think it is for the health professionals to know. Often people have tried first line defences. You know, we don't always want to put someone on medication straight away. And actually, a really lovely chance to get involved with talking therapy before medicalizing can be really helpful because the thing with medication is it can be very helpful, especially in cases of risk to self or others. So I'm absolutely not saying don't take medication. But that in itself can be invalidating because we know a little pill can't actually think for you, can't make those changes. It's you that goes out on the walk.

It's you that begins that journaling practice. It's you that begins that breathing. And so if we do get better and we've taken medication, it's really common to think that it's the medication that made us better. No, it's actually you. You've helped make yourself better. So staying on your own team and taking the medication if prescribed, but also knowing that it's you that's made those changes can be so important. Oh, amazing.

Marianne, I think it's just been the most helpful thing. And I think Ella and I, those were the key questions that we thought would be really helpful for the Wellness Scoop listeners. Ella, have we touched on the key takeaways, do you think? We absolutely have. And I think the big thing for me to take away from this conversation

is normalizing the fact that feeling moments of anxiety is absolutely a normal part of the human experience and we shouldn't feel that there's anything abnormal about us for having those feelings and struggling with it. But when it's lasting for long periods of time and it's having an impact on your life, that's when you should seek more focused help. But actually, first and foremost, within that, make sure you look at those things that are very actionable and very much in our own power, even if they feel difficult today. Exercising, checking vitamin levels, making sure you're taking those vitamin D supplements in particular, and then looking at journaling, understanding your thought

process. I think for me, it's always that reminder actually that there's so much out of our hands when it comes to our life, when it comes to our health, but actually there are these, I say simple and I don't mean simple in the sense that it's easy to fit into a busy life, but simple things like short walks on our lunch breaks, five minutes to breathe in the evening or do a bit of journaling, a high quality vitamin D supplement, these sorts of things that actually they do take a moment but they don't take too long and they can fit into our busy lives and whilst that can feel overwhelming to a degree,

it's also empowering to know actually these small habits they can make a massive difference to how we feel every day. Do you know what hit me was the rabbit analogy? You know when you said the bunny in the woods and how you just have to sometimes distract your mind from those other thoughts every single day of the stress of the school run or you're late for work and just think can I feel my feet on the ground? It's so simple isn't it but it's so effective and so powerful. Marianne thank you ever so much for coming on The Wellness Scoop with us. Thank you. It's been really lovely. Thanks for inviting me and hope anyone listening to this feels that it's been helpful and there's no shame in any of this.

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