The Wellness Scoop - The Extra Scoop: Protein. Myths, Marketing & What You Really Need

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

Protein is everywhere right now — added to yoghurts, cereals, snack bars and even water. But why has it taken centre stage in the wellness world, and how much do we actually need? In this episode of The Extra Scoop, we’re joined by Dr. Chris Cashin, a Registered Dietitian and Sports Nutritionist with over 25 years of experience, to help us make sense of the protein boom. From health claims to beauty industry promises, she breaks down what’s fact, what’s hype, and what really matters when it comes to your protein intake. We look at why protein is essential, how to tell if you’re getting enough, whether plant-based options measure up, and why there’s more to nutrition than just chasing numbers on a label. Whether you're perimenopausal, training for a marathon, or simply trying to eat well, this episode gives you the clarity and confidence to navigate protein without the overwhelm. In This Episode, We Cover: Why protein is important and what it actually does for the body The truth behind daily targets — and whether 30g per meal is really necessary The rise of “proteinification” and how diet culture fuels the hype How protein became associated with aesthetics and the ideal body image The difference between complete and incomplete proteins Whether plant-based proteins are just as effective as animal-based sources The real risks (if any) of eating too much protein 3 simple, evidence-based takeaways to help you get what you need — without overthinking it About the Guest:Dr Chris Cashin is a Registered Dietitian, Registered Nutritionist, and Sports Nutritionist with over 25 years of experience. She’s the founder of Cardiff Nutrition Consultancy, has worked with elite athletes at the English Institute of Sport and Sport Wales, and is a Senior Lecturer and Programme Manager for the MSc in Sport and Exercise Nutrition at the University of Wales Trinity Saint David. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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on the topics everybody is talking about. That's right, from gut health to sleep, hormones to skin, we are cutting through the noise with top experts, so there is no fluff, just facts. Exactly, it's all quick, practical, evidence-based advice to fit into your busy lives. So this is the Extra Scoop. Let's get started. Hi guys. So as you probably know by now, our Extra Scoop episodes are just all about taking the topics everybody's talking about, you're reading about everywhere and quickly breaking them down for you so that you've got short expert-led insights that leave you feeling informed and empowered when it comes

to your well-being. Exactly, we've spoken about the rise of protein a lot on the wellness scoop. I mean the proteinification is the new word of the food industry. So this is why we wanted to deep dive into this with you guys for the Extra Scoop And we are so excited to have Chris Cashen on, a highly experienced registered dietitian, registered nutritionist and sports nutritionist with over 25 years in the field. So hello, Chris. Hello, it's very nice to be here. So Chris, welcome to the show. We are so happy to have you here. And I think before we get into the proteinification of the industry and or what's happening, or why we're also buzzed about protein, I think it would be so helpful for people because they're probably hearing this word everywhere, but not necessarily knowing

exactly what it is, what's the benefit. So could you give us a protein 101? Why is it important? Where does it come from? Why do we need it? Why do we need it? Well, it's important for muscle building. It rejuvenates all your cells. It's part of lots of the hormone enzyme systems. It also supplies you with some energy every day. And where do we find it? Well, it's in a variety of foods. So it's in things, the animal products, obviously, like meat and fish, eggs, cheese, milk. But it's also found in a lot of plant-based foods, the obvious ones that you might use like tofu and soy and all those kind of things. But I think what a lot of people forget is

that things like pasta and bread and rice also contain quite considerable amounts of protein. So if you had an average portion of pasta or say two or three slices of bread, that contains about 10 grams of protein which is something I think people perhaps don't understand. So it's in a variety of foods. Chris I feel like you must be in hot demand right now with the proto-unification of the world. Yeah I think it's certainly something that lots of my students talk about all the time. And certainly, you know, working with clients as you must find, Ree, that everybody's talking about it. And I actually don't think

anyone really understands where this has come from. Well, that's why we're here. Well, you know, I was thinking about this when you invited me on. And funny enough, yesterday, another dietician was talking about this and she was saying the same thing that all these macronutrients have gone round in circles, haven't they? We've had protein, fat, carbohydrate, and as I've been at this for a long time, I've seen them all come and go. But this one feels very different because I think what's happened with this is that

a lot of the food companies have jumped on the bandwagon, haven't they, and they've started adding protein to everything. So I think this has just created a different feel to the whole thing. I do worry about it because it feels as if everybody's talking about protein, but they're not talking about the other nutrients as well. Well, this is the thing, isn't it? I often wonder you know we've always we always seem to focus on one area like you mentioned we've had low carb we've had low fat now we've got high protein and it does detract from things we should be achieving in the diet so can I ask you why protein is important of

course but is it really the first thing that we should be looking at on the label of a product instead of all the other bits? Well, I suppose it's difficult because I kind of think fats, protein and carbohydrate have equal merit. But the actual amount of protein that people need is not that great really. Because if you look at the dietary reference values, and I know this is something a lot of our students question me about, why are protein requirements, why do they go back to 1991 and beyond? That is very true. Why do they go back to 1991? Because they haven't changed them, have they? And so we only need 0.8 grams of protein per

kilo. That's the sort of basic requirements. Of course, that doesn't take into account if you've got somebody who is doing a lot of exercise. So some of the athletes that I've worked with over the years, the amounts of protein that they require are huge, but they're exercising a lot. Chris, can I jump in there and just clarify? Because I think when you're saying people are exercising a lot, it's really helpful to understand what we mean by that. Like, it sounds to me from what you're saying, you're talking about professional or amateur athletes who are doing serious training and serious amounts of movement versus the most of us office dwellers, you know, more sedentary lifestyle. And then we're going, hopefully to the gym or to an exercise class or running or doing

some form of exercise a couple of times a week. But largely speaking, we're at our desk so we're kind of pottering around our house doing tasks. No, we probably don't need extra. Although there is some evidence that perhaps as females, we might need a little bit more protein. So it might go up to maybe 1.2 grams of protein per kilo. And also for older adults, there is quite a lot of evidence that perhaps the lower level of 0.8 is not enough to maintain muscle mass. So we see

this a lot in older adults that they develop sarcopenia where they're losing muscle. But a lot of that is to do with maybe the fact that they're not doing any exercise. You know, the government guidelines on exercise are 150 minutes per week with two 30-minute sessions of some kind of resistance weight type training. But in reality, most older adults don't do that. And a lot of younger people don't do that as well. So they're only doing sort of conventional running, maybe going to the gym, using a few of the, maybe a few sessions on a cross trainer or on the treadmill. So their protein requirements are not going to be that high because actually if you look

at the difference between different athletes, so if you've got endurance runners, for instance, they don't need as much protein as somebody who maybe is a rugby player. So there's huge variation in the amount of protein that people need. Absolutely. I mean, the individual differences is, of course, huge. And this is why social media doesn't help this matter if we look at it.

So of course, we're not saying protein is bad. We all know protein's good. We need all these macronutrients to be healthy in the right amounts. But one gram per kilogram of body weight a day. Everybody really is hitting that. So what is your take on these viral Instagram posts that are saying we need to have at least 30 grams of protein per meal. What do you think of that? Well, interestingly, there was a paper published just about two weeks ago as a review that looked at this and a lot of the evidence does suggest that between 20 and 30 grams of protein is the optimum amount for building muscle. But of course, most of the studies have been done on people who are doing

quite heavy weight training. They've not been done on the likes of you and I. So we don't really have any hard evidence around this. But what I'm seeing is that lots of people are promoting, I saw one yesterday who was promoting 70 to 80 grams of protein in a meal. Oh no. I see that the whole time. Yeah. And so apart from the fact that from the way I look at it as well, and I think as nutritionists, we're often, you know, trying to make meals sustainable, cut out all those ultra processed foods. And also it's the cost. You don't need that amount of protein. You and I don't need that amount of protein.

But surely there's more harm. 70 to 80 grams at every meal a day is excessive. I mean I did some number crunching on this and sort of based it on say an average female who maybe weighs between 65 and 70 kilos. So for that if you base it on 1.2 grams of protein per kilo, they would need 78 to 84 grams of protein. But it seems to me... In a day. Yeah. But a lot of these influences are suggesting that we all need 160 grams of protein per day, which is almost double, isn't it? Yeah.

Of the amount that you actually need. It seems to me that at the moment, all they seem to be promoting is one size fits all. Everybody needs that amount of protein. I don't need that. I'm probably like you. I take the dogs out for a walk. I might do a little run on the treadmill, do some weights because as we get older, we need to be doing that. But I don't need that amount of protein.

And apart from anything else, it's the cost. You know, if you think about it, they're promoting such huge amounts of protein, it's going to cost you a lot of money to maintain that amount of protein. Yes, I've often seen, because all our recipes are plant based, people say, Oh, my personal trainer has told me and this is again a normal way to normal, but someone who has who has a quite sedentary lifestyle at a desk most of the time, my personal trainer has told me I need 150 grams of protein a day, but I don't think I can do that if I'm veggie essentially. And you're like, yeah, you just don't need to do that.

Full stop. And you know, I think the evidence around where you get the protein from, it still doesn't really seem to make an awful lot of difference, although there is some evidence that whey protein is absorbed faster. So I can see why people are using that. But again, I'm seeing people using it with everything. So they may be using it in a shake in the morning and then adding it to something else in the evening.

So, you know, I think this is where a lot of the excessive amounts are coming from. I just think it's really important to our listeners to remind people that sports nutrition is not public health nutrition because sports nutrition is so numerical. It's very calculated based on the individual and you do need excessive amounts. But what I'm also seeing, Chris, is there's a lot of talk for females, especially for women, for menopause. And that's also, I think people calling it, is it menowashing, Ella? Is that the term? Yes, I think washing's being added to everything, isn't it? From green washing to menowashing. I said you, I hadn't heard that one.

I think it's jumping on the menopause. I hate to say bandwagon, but I think it's, again, it's like all these marketing tricks of, you know, this will help sell because people are looking for solutions in this area. But again, I think, you know, some evidence suggests that women going through the menopause might need 1.2 grams of protein per kilo, but not the excessive amounts, again, that you would need if you were doing a lot of exercise. So some of those athletes that we work with who have very different requirements because they are exercising and doing lots of weight training sessions all day, every day with maybe one day of rest. They're not doing the same as you and I are doing. But I think this is part of the problem, isn't it, with a lot of these influencers that, again, they are suggesting that we need these huge amounts of protein that are a bit like an Olympic athlete needs.

Yeah, you wouldn't find a registered nutritionist or dietitian that's actually registered with Association of Nutrition or British Dietetic Association saying you need plus 30 grams of protein in the meal, I don't think for the general public. So that's a big red flag for people to look for because I see a lot of people saying, oh, for menopausal women, you need to be getting 40 grams in a meal and they're doing, this is my breakfast bowl, it has 40 grams of protein in it and it's going viral and the followers are going up and obviously we've got the fight Chris of who is a health professional, especially in the nutrition world, who's regulated, who's not.

Yeah, yes, absolutely. I think, I mean, it's obviously it's what we talk about the whole time, is just trying to distill this concophony, this extraordinary world west of information down into like, for all of us, everyone listening, we're busy, we're juggling lots of different things, lots of different responsibilities and you just need to kind of simply distill it of this is what to worry about and this is what not to worry about. And the good news is what not to worry about is a bigger section of things than what to worry about. But one question I'm sure people have is, again, there's people comparing kind of animal-based

protein to plant-based protein, the question of kind of complete and incomplete protein and I wondered if you could clear that up for people as well. Yeah, I mean we've got these essential amino acids that we need to consume on a daily basis and we get those from the animal-based products but the plant-based products are a bit of a mixed bag really because some plant-based products contain some of the amino acids but not all of them but having a mixture of lots of different plant-based products contain some of the amino acids, but not all of them. But having a mixture of lots of different plant-based foods will give you all those amino acids and you can manage perfectly well as a vegan or a vegetarian and still build muscle. So I think, you know, as long as you have a wide variety, I think that's really important. I mean, I certainly, I'm a meat eater, but I made myself learn a lot more about plant-based

diets. And I think I've realized that the two go hand in hand, don't they? You can still consume animal products if you want to, but you can be perfectly healthy as a plant-based eater as long as you make sure you have a wide variety. Now, I think it's always interesting because I think in my neck, in the woods, in South Wales, we're not very good with things like beans and pulses. I mean, sometimes when I say to clients, do you eat them? Then they'll say, yeah, I eat baked beans and that's about it. So I think it's encouraging people to be a bit more adventurous as well,

trying different things. I certainly think that some of the cookbooks around now have got a lot more plant-based ideas, haven't they? I think I listened to a student this week talking about a research project she'd done on herself as a vegetarian for a month and what she'd learned about it and I think you know probably as healthcare professionals we probably do need to learn a bit more about it. I love that Chris I'm going to send you the plant Facebook. I think

what's so interesting about what you've just said is that you can be an unhealthy meat eater just as much as a healthy meat eater and the problem we've got with the fixation on protein is that people assume, oh well, if you are an omnivore and you consume animal produce, therefore you're healthy because you're hitting protein targets, but then they're lacking the fibre. Yes. It's hitting a balance, isn't it? And it's interesting, as much as I don't like the Eat Well Guide, I think it does give you a sort of a base, doesn't it, to follow from.

But interestingly, some studies have shown that only 1% of the population actually follow it. Wow, 1%. 1%, yeah. Doesn't surprise me actually, because our diets are so poor at the moment in the UK in general. So is there anything negative, Chris,

about having too much? So can there be poor side effects for these individuals online that are promoting well in excess of, you know, let's say the 70 gram you just mentioned at each meal? Yeah, I think the thing is if you are having too much protein, then obviously if you're not using it to build muscle, you're going to start using it for energy. And so there is a possibility, and I have seen this in practice, that some people who are consuming large quantities are gaining weight as a result of it. Also, you know, there's no evidence that it causes damage to your kidneys unless you've got an undenying

health condition, maybe like type 2 diabetes where you've got some renal impairment. But there is some evidence that it can contribute to gout and also to kidney stones. So, you know, I think it is also important to consider that. Protein powders also appearing like a health halo because we know they're convenient, but do they really need to be a daily item? Halo because we know they're convenient but do they really need to be a daily item? No. When I first started working in sports nutrition I was really against protein powders but I can see there is a benefit. If you've done quite a heavy workout and you need some fuel afterwards with some carbohydrate there are some quite good protein powders around. But what I'm finding in practice is that people are throwing whey

protein, in particular, into absolutely everything. So they're making pancakes in the morning with it, smoothies with it. They're throwing it into all sorts of other things. And so they're consuming large quantities. And again, going back to your new project with ultra-processed foods, a lot of these protein powders are highly processed. And they've got loads of colorings and additives in them to make them stable. And the vast majority of

them taste awful. Yeah. So you know, I think from that point of view, you know, people need to look at the amount they're having because I think people are consuming far too much of them. And they're expensive. If we're going back to the cost side as well. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's such an important point and I think it's not to forget it, but it's one of those things when people are talking about this all online or, you know, in the news at the moment. It is so easy to bypass that and I think it's not talked about enough, but to get to your point 70 grams in a meal, like you've, you are, it's not talked about enough, but to get to your point, 70 grams in a meal, like it's not cheap and you're not gonna do that

with tins of lentils, you know, which are those sorts of ingredients, which are obviously much cheaper. And I guess to close, Chris, for people who are feeling overwhelmed, because I think if you do exist online, you are on Instagram, Facebook, et cetera, TikTok, and you are engaged in any shape or form in the world of health and wellness, you will be inundated with protein content at the moment.

And it's so difficult to know who to follow, what to trust, particularly when you see very attractive, slim people in sports bras telling you to do this, to be totally frank. What are your kind of two takeaways for people listening of how to distill that information to ensure they're getting the amount of protein that they need for their health but not over complicating it? I think maybe look at some of the other people who are online, like there are a lot of registered nutritionists and dietitians who are now posting quite a lot about protein and other foods as well. I would follow them because they would give you good advice that's based on evidence because we like some evidence don't we and you know ask them questions because I think a lot of the people who I see posting as nutritionists and

dieticians are quite happy to answer questions and buy some books that will actually explain all this to you. My students use your books, Rhee, because I think they're so easy to read and I would recommend something like that to people, go and get something that is evidence-based and don't totally rely on a lot of these influences who clearly have no qualifications, which is something that's really close to my heart. I know. Can I throw in one more point, which actually might be quite controversial and I don't want it to come across in the wrong way. So I have a huge respect for doctors, but they don't have a lot of them the nutritional education and some in particular may go on to do a bit

of further education in nutrition. But you see, there's a big tide of turn, Ella's smiling at me because she knows exactly what I'm talking about. I heard recently a doctor say that the leading cause of sarcopenia and the problems we have in the Western world is because we're not eating enough protein. It was quite a stark remark and it actually, it's very confusing for people because when you've got mainstream doctors that aren't, that maybe only have one year in nutrition versus our six or seven, you know, however many placements and whatever we've done over time. Making claims about this, it confuses the public massively. What's your take on this information, drastic claims

like bone density is linked to our lack of protein? It's not as simple as that, is it? I mean, part of the problem, I think, is lack of exercise. And this stems right from when you're very small children. I mean, certainly in the university I work for, we're doing a lot of work on physical literacy, where children are not meeting their milestones in terms of, you know, hopping, skipping, jumping, that kind of thing. Then it goes right through, you know, teenage years to adult years. We know that only 30% of the population are exercising. And so it's bound to manifest itself, isn't it? As you get older, you're not doing any exercise, so you're starting to lose muscle.

Then you're starting to become frail, and then you start falling over and then breaking bones. And no matter how much protein you put in, that will not reverse muscle building. So, you know, I think it's got to be both things. And we've got to look at protein and educating the public on just being active. Yeah. And maybe doing some, a weight routine. Yeah. But it doesn't have to be in the gym. It can do it at home. Yeah. And maybe doing some a weight routine. Yeah. But it doesn't have to be in the gym. You can do it at home. Yeah. Oh, thank you, Chris. And of course,

you know, it's not just protein guys. It's the calcium, the phosphorus, the vitamin D. It's everything, isn't it? And that's why we need really, I suppose, to look at your diet as a whole. And you know, not just focus on one particular food, we need to look at everything. I think that's such great advice because it's also so reassuring and so much more doable for people in their busy, busy lives is to take that slightly more rounded view where you don't have to get so stressed about how to formulate a meal. Because I think when you are trying to hit 50, 70 grams in a meal, that's quite stressful in terms of, and also you start like literally weighing and calculating your food, which again, I

think, I mean, it's certainly a kind of massive passion point of mine. I think for people to eat well, you've got to enjoy it. And that's the only way for healthy habits to stick. And when you start to feel like things have to become so scientific to put together your breakfast or your lunch, because it's got to be in certain proportions. I think it just, it sucks quite a lot of the spontaneity and joy and fun, doesn't it? It does. And I guess what we need to do as well is get people cooking again. Exactly.

Chris, we're so, so grateful for your time today. Thank you ever so much for sharing, sharing your wisdoms on the Extra Scoop today. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening to us on the Extra Scoop. We are a community-based podcast. We want this to be helpful for you. So any requests, we want to hear it. Absolutely. Let us know which experts that you want on the Extra Scoop and we will see you on Monday. Can't wait.