The Wellness Scoop - The Gluten Debate and the Benefits of Chocolate

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

This week we’re breaking down the truth about two of our favourite topics: bread and chocolate. We unpack the confusion around gluten and gut health, explaining what the science really says about inflammation, how wholegrains and sourdough compare to refined options, and when cutting out wheat is genuinely helpful versus when it’s just another wellness myth. We also explore the surprising benefits of dark chocolate, from its antioxidant-rich polyphenols to its links with mood, cognition and even gut health. Plus, we share a simple digital wellbeing tweak that’s helping listeners spend less time scrolling, and answer your questions on vitamin D, plant diversity and healthy eating on busy days. Recommendations from our amazing listeners Ailsa from Birmingham suggests we try switching our phone screens to black & white. A really simple hack that helps prevent us getting distracted by our phones, by making them less interesting to look at. Find out how you can do it here Hanna recommends True Dates - taste great and full of fibre! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And as always, we are both here as your host. I'm Mela Mills. And I'm Rihanna Lambert. And today we are diving into some juicy topics as chosen by you all. This is our Q&A episode. So just a reminder every week, we take your questions, queries, comments, recommendations, requests to do this episode. So if you have anything you want to add to the conversation,

or a burning question that you need answered, either pop it in the Spotify or Apple comments, please, or you can email it straight to me, Ella, at DeliciouslyElla.com. Exactly. And honestly, the questions you are asking us are just brilliant and very appropriate for the seasons that we're entering into. But actually, we do have exciting news before we do get to which one you pick Ella next week, haven't we?

We do, exactly. So thank you so much for everyone's feedback on our Q&A episode that we did, on Zempeg and Majaro and all the weight loss drugs with Jack Molesley. We really appreciate all that feedback. And we have had also a huge number of questions about gut health. So we thought we could do something similar on gut health that we bring an expert to really focus on that.

Next week we're going to be joined by Tim Specter, who's obviously an absolutely phenomenal pioneering researcher, scientist, eminent man and a gut health guru. And so he will be joining us to go through all your questions on gut health. So that's going to be absolutely brilliant next Thursday. But we, before we get into questions as well, have you got any good wrecks for us this week, anything we need in our lives? Would you know, Ella, we actually have some amazing recommendations from our listeners? We've got one here from A.M. Birmingham. And she said, I know you love a location. Yes, we do. Thank you for sharing. Big up to Birmingham.

She said, apologies, it's not more exotic. I love the show, and I'd like to share the ultimate phone wellness hack, courtesy of the shameless podcast. My favorite. Ella's favorite podcast. A few weeks ago, they recommended turning your phone screen to black and white because it makes it less interesting for your brain and it's changed my life. I haven't been on Instagram in two weeks. Wow, that is amazing. She said it's just not engaging with no colour and you don't buy anything if you can't see it properly. And if friends send pictures or I want to look at something specific, then I turn the colour back on and enjoy it and turn it off again afterwards.

I can't explain how much it's helped me and would love to share that for all of you to try. So you go to your iPhone, go to your settings, accessibility, display and colour filters. That is a fantastic recommendation for anyone else who's struggling with phones and doom scrolling and overusing. I love that. And we also have another recommendation from Hannah today. I've already actioned this recommendation, so I'll report back next week.

But Hannah said, I have a sweet treat recommendation that I've just come across. It's a company called True Date. And the sour apple and sour watermelon ones really do taste like sweets, but without the sugar and lots of extra fibre. but I've just found them on Amazon, and they seem like a great alternative. They taste so good. Thanks for the fab podcast. Yeah, I mean, I love dates.

Does she literally mean dates? I've just bought them. So I will give you more info next Thursday when we do our recommendations and let you guys know if they're absolutely fantastic, as Hannah says. But yeah, I think it's dates with a coating that creates that like sour, apple, sour, watermelon, sweety type taste. But then you obviously get the health benefit of the date. So it's really cool, really cool concept. And a good fibre boost, everyone. Now our first question is from Emma, and she has said, well, the subject of her email, rather, is to wheat or not to wheat. I like it. I loved it. Such a good email. She said I love the podcast and I've shared it with so many of my friends. Okay, so she's question is for Rhee. I'm hoping Rhee can clear out the confusion around wheat slash gluten. There are so many claims around it being inflammatory and damaging to the gut and not essential for our diets, which I understand with you,

and some white versions. However, I'm not ready to give up sourdough. I'd like to know if there's benefit. I'm finding it confusing the whole grain, sourdough, UPF, white bread, all the different bread options help. I'm very confused. I would say we've had quite a few similar questions. I just particularly appreciated to wheat or not to eat from Emma. Me too. It's such a great title. And please do not worry, Emma, you're not alone. And let's start with explaining that gluten. I used to break this down in clinic by explaining the word glue from gluten is like sticky. So it's like a stretchy protein that holds things together in food. And I don't think a lot of people realize gluten is a protein. It gives dough, it's elasticity,

it's helping maintain its shape, you know, the structure of a food. And for most people, this glue-like property in baking does not equate to inflammation in the body. So it's a complete myth, really, that's kind of come about online. It happened many years ago. And scientific reviews have consistently shown that gluten doesn't trigger inflammation, but this is in individuals that do not have celiac disease or a non-celiac gluten sensitivity. So only if you are unable to digest gluten, are you going to experience problems? And in fact, whole grains containing gluten can contribute to better gut health and a reduced

risk of chronic disease due to their fibre and nutrition content. And there's studies all the way up to 2025 that state this. And a little fact about sourdough, because I know you mentioned sourdough, when I attend to talk recently by Tim Specter, actually, our guru, who's going to chat to us all next week a little bit more. He was discussing the benefits of dead microbes and how they may still have a benefit within our gut. And I've also added this research to my latest book. And sourdough, the beneficial bacteria that is lost during the heating process. So it is fermented. The bread is good for us. But of course, when you heat it up, you know, you don't get the bacteria being alive

anymore, you've essentially killed it. But even having dead microbes is really good for our gut health, Ella, because during fermentation, the lactic acid bacteria, wildies break down those complex carbs and it makes gluten slightly minuscule easier to digest and also contains lots of other beneficial compounds that may improve mineral absorption like iron and zinc and the overall GI impact potentially could be lower. So I think that's why sourdough is literally the go-to. But there's a lot of fake sourdows out there. Oh my gosh. There've been some like, I'm not going to see scandals, but some essentially, yeah, some sort of scandaly type conversations about it because, yeah, a lot of, you can't really have a supermarket sourdough. That is the reality because

we're talking about like almost a two-day process to cook your bread and that's just not plausible on large scale. So I think kind of be aware of that. I think the other thing though you do see a lot is bread is one of those interesting areas in terms of. of the continuum that it sits on because you mentioned Emma UPFs there. Obviously we have at one end homemade sourdough which to your point really beneficial for gut health and is also an amazing carrier for all sorts of toppings be that like smash peas or garlicy tomato beans or baked bean type products, avocado, you know, eggs if you eat them, whatever it is and actually therefore can be a really help create a really quick nutritious meal. But

the challenge is at the other end, bread is one of the most consumed UPF items because, you know, obviously, and again, it's all about balance and it's not to kind of fearmonger, but a lot of the ready, you know, the supermarket breads, which are really, you know, this is one of the big challenges in terms of price because they are very affordable. The ingredient list, you know, they do contain, you know, three different e-numbers, and emulsifiers, preservatives, you know, lots, they do have lots of UPFs in them. And so it is something if you're trying to cut down on UPFs, bread is an area where people do, could improve,

but equally price is a huge part of that. So I think it is really confusing. And I think there is such a continuum in terms of health benefit of, as I said, like a homemade sourdough at one end, which is really quite nutritious unless you're a celiac or have that gluten sensitivity. And then the other end where actually these aren't great for us, but that's incredibly challenging because they're really inexpensive. and in the world that we live in, that's really important.

So it's a very difficult one. And I would argue as well, and it's like I wrote in the unprocessed plate, the privilege thing with bread. Bread is such a difficult thing to discuss because if you are listening now, like you've said, and you want to make a health change, great, and you're able to do it. But for so many people, that fortification, even in a highly UPF processed bread,

I'd rather it not be to the degree it is, but it is. But that iron can be really beneficial for people or the folic acid, the folate that is added into the bread for people that are living on the bread line. From the bread line, there you go. It's called on the bread line. I think bread is just such a staple food that a lot of people don't see it as potentially a healthy addition to the diet. There's lots of nuance surrounding this topic. So I hope that's really helped you.

So we've definitely dived into the fact that those beneficial microbes still exist in sourdough, even when they are not alive anymore. Lucy has said, thank you to both of you. I love the podcast. Marie, thank you for inspiring me to learn more about. nutrition. I'm so so pleased. And then Ella, do you want to read this out about vitamin D because I know we had so many questions specifically like Lucy's here? Lucy said you mentioned in your recent podcast episode that we should all be supplementing 10 milligrams of vitamin D due to the change in weather. So obviously not being able to get that abundant sunlight on our skin

in the northern hemisphere. I have been searching multiple different brands for a clean supplement to do this. However, I keep stumbling across the majority of the supplements having ingredients like bulking agents, anti-caking agents, and sucrose in them. I know we should be taking a vitamin D supplement, but I'm cautious to take one when there's so many harmful ingredients in the supplements too. Can you let me know what you'd recommend and whether there's a supplement you would suggest as I fear their own brand supplements, some of the high street brands are actually doing more harm than good. Am I wrong? No. You're wrong about harm. I don't think they're going to harm as such, but there's definitely a hierarchy of supplements, Ella. I mean, I will be back next year of

Retrition Plus because the reason I made vitamin Ds to begin with was because I was so fed up with what I was seeing, so fed up. To this day, there is still no other vitamin D available that has the same ingredients as my drops, just olive oil and vitamin D. And it's really sad to see, but it's a price bracket and there's a reason why supplements are developed in the way they are. It's cost efficiency, it's business, it's fulfillment companies, it's all the different things that are involved in making a supplement and you have to charge so much to make a profit. but the ingredients itself aren't harmful and I just worry people just aren't taking this everybody in the winter months needs to be taking vitamin D so just remember that but the

dose is really key here and the type a lot of people use the cheaper type in the supplement from sheep's wool lanolin and I actually chose to use algae-based coliciferole which is a vitamin D3 which is a really easy to absorb form of the supplement for the body and if you're going to get a spray. The reason is so many extra ingredients in a spray form, Ella, as you know, is because to get a spray, not to stick, which is what we had such problems of Retrition Plus, I didn't want to put so much in, but then it's really hard to get anything to stay in spray form and not clog at the top of the device that you're using. And also to not separate within the mixture and to taste palatable for an adult, you kind of do need to add some extras there, but there's

still a line with how much. If you want the cleaner supplement out there, you go for the baby drops because they still contain the same amount as in the adults that's recommended, which is your vitamin D in your 10 microgram dose. We're back really to the same answer as the question beforehand, which is just this humongous challenge because ultimately there are nothing as good as Rees, obviously, but there are some good brands out there that have, you know, vitamin D3 in oil and having vitamin D is fat soluble. So that's why the kind of best quality ones are in an oil base. It's just a lot more expensive than the kind of own brand ones that you're referencing that have those products in. And so that's the real challenge is ultimately kind of we can sit

here and say like, no, there are really good ones out there and they don't have those added ingredients in. And from my perspective, it's the sense of look, UPFs are everywhere. We all consume them. We're all going to consume them. We shouldn't be stressed about that. But it's about getting the balance right. And so if we cannot consume them in our supplements, that's probably a win because we're going to get them when we go trick or treating on Halloween or whatever it is. Instead, they are just much more expensive and Rees made them. You know that that's the reality is to make them without those products in. It's really difficult. It's really difficult to produce high quality supplements on mass. And that's why a lot of the big companies just don't do clean

ingredients. What I will say is watch the dose. I've seen a real trend of people. And I was actually asked to speak on Channel 5 news about this last week, but I was away about people taking too much. Because it's fat soluble, it builds up inside your body. You don't excrete it like you would vitamin C, which you can see the color of your urine change to bright yellow, you know, if you take too many vitamins and minerals in a supplement form. And in most cases, unless you have a blood test and you can see you are deficient. Deficient means under the recommended amount that you have and you need to dose with a higher

amount, then you should not be taking higher than the 10 micrograms recommended. And the reason that's the safe public health limit is purely because it builds up. over time. So you want to have these small doses consistently. And that's a safe recommended amount. And I really worry when I see people recommending these huge doses of vitamin D because before you know it, people can get too much. So just be very wary, guys. Unless you take a blood test, I don't recommend taking more than the public health recommendation. I think that kind of summarizes it, really. And then also try and do vitamin D3 instead of D2. If you can, again, it does unfortunately tend to often be a little bit more expensive.

And then the other reminder, if you're not having it in one of the fat-based products, so the ones that have olive oil and et cetera, is to try and have it with food that contains a little bit fat because it is fat soluble. And lots of them, coconut oil is still okay, guys, but it is a saturated fat, but tiny minimal amounts. I'd rather you worry more, like Keller said, about your trick-or-treating and other stuff

and how much you get than that tiny amount. But it is a daily thing we take in the winter. So it was a very, very good question. and I hope that's been helpful for you. The next question we've got is from Ellen. She said, oh, I'm a Colombian expat living in Laos, beautiful. I love your podcast and try to integrate everything I learn from it as much as possible. She said, I love the philosophy of the dailyish habits.

And I wanted to ask, in terms of the things that count as 30 plants a week, do things like coffee, tea and chocolate counts, secretly hoping the answer is yes. But happy to always add more variety to my meals. thank you. Oh, love that, Ellen. Thank you. First of all, love that you're from Colombia, now living in Laos. What a journey. So, yeah, brilliant. And thank you as well for mentioning the daily-ish habits. I think that is so much both of our philosophy, those small daily habits that just last is not about perfection. It's such a great question, isn't it, Ray? 100%. So essentially, yeah, is the answer there with 30 plants a week. I think we should definitely touch on the fact that so many things count. Also, did I say, Laos instead of Laos. Is it Laos? Louse. Laos. Gorgeous. I've never been. I would love to go there. The diversity of plant points is really important. And even herbs and spices count as a quarter of a point. But this is also debated. There's no exact thing. And I just think count everything as a point. And that's easier. Yeah, that's where I've gotten to because some people count a herb or a spice as a quarter and some people count them as a whole. It depends who you ask. And so there is. is no exact science, but the reality is we've all got enough on our minds. Once you start having

quarters, it becomes a bit of a kind of faffy process. And so I think if you, you know, had a teaspoon count it as a whole, get that win in where you can. Certainly where I say. So yes, coffee definitely counts. Instant and decaf too, since they all come from the coffee beans. And then the chocolate, I'm so happy about this. Ella and I are huge chocolate fans. If it's minimally processed, 70% or higher because that contains more polyphenols and my favorite little tip is the dark chocolate if you have hot chocolate drinks like I do all year round because I am a hot chocolate fiend with my velveterizer that helps increase stem cells so really cool bit of research there tea is a bit more of a gray area I think it's because of the way it's processed the quality

of tea again just like we said with supplements before that ella it's just to manufacture high quality tea it does cost a lot more you're looking at the tea bag you want the whole leaf within the tea bag itself and most people don't drink the whole leaf whereas you're you're drinking ground coffee beans just to explain it to you but in a in a tea bag you're not it's like an osmosis effect of filtration and water but some of the phytonutrients are helpful like with green tea so olive oil also counts some people don't count olive oil though oh I do I count olive oil I think it should be and I think it is probably like the ultimate example like this just isn't an exact science, take every win where you can. As I said, yeah, some people have herbs as a quarter,

some people have them as a whole, some people have olive oil as a quarter or none, some people have it as a whole. The only thing I think people generally don't count is something like a plant milk, just because it's like 1% almond, for example, generally speaking, and so you're not getting that fibre, etc., that are going to feed your gut bacteria. But my sense is take your wins where you can. It is not an exact science. There is no one out there who will say, 100% it's all about X, Y, or Z. You know, we talked to, remember with FedE, from Zoe, and she was saying, you know, they count every little bit of herb and spice that you add. Yeah, I love that. I think it's such a nice one, isn't it? Just add more. Add more in. And there's loads of benefits to that,

which we know, which are really researched. I'm writing about it in the fibre formula. Ella's got plant points in her new book Quick Wins, which is out soon. So we just think it's a really nice philosophy to have. This is a paid advertisement for better help. As the days get shorter and darker, it's easy to fill a little flat. We all get this. And this time of year can be tough for so many of us, routines changing, energy dips, and sometimes we even forget to check in on each other.

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We want to take out the competition. The substance. This balance is not working. And the naked gun. That was awesome. Now that's a mountain of entertainment. Paramount Wolf. Okay, so our next question comes from Danielle, and Danielle said I'm really enjoying the podcast content. Thanks, Danielle. Keep up the great work.

Firstly, I thought you'd like to know I now eat a few walnuts every day after hearing all the health benefits on the pod. My question's a little bit different as I actually make a concerted effort to incorporate lots of diversity into my diet. The trouble is I really struggle to digest many healthy foods like chickpeas, butter, beans, garlic, broccoli and cauliflower. I experience a lot of bloating to the point where I have to ration or totally avoid these foods. do you have any tips on which beans or pulses I may tolerate better or ways to help me digest these trigger foods, taking digestive enzymes, for example, building up from small to large quantities doesn't really work for me. And I'd love to be able to properly enjoy these nutritious ingredients again. And this is something we've also heard a fair amount on. So, Danielle,

you are not alone. Yeah, absolutely. We had a whole episode on bloating as well with Catherine Rebess from the Retrition Clinic. And it's a very methodical process. And you're right, starting small and building won't work for everybody. And digestive enzymes don't work either. It's one of those big myths. You need to get to the bottom of the problem before you can start adding things because otherwise you'll never know. Rie, can I just pause you there actually and just ask, what is a digestive enzyme? Because I feel like this is a very popular supplement, something you read about a fair amount. What actually are they? And not to take us totally off topic, I promise, Danielle, we'll come back to your question. But what are digestive enzymes? And do they actually do

anything? Yeah, of course. We actually had a recent study conducted on this that we were discussing in the Retrition Clinic. I'm going to try and dig that out because it's somewhere in my emails. But essentially, it's trying to mimic all of the natural enzymes like you get lactase to break down lactose or galactase, different enzymes that help break down a process, different types of proteins. And there's a theory that by taking it in a capsule, you are essentially helping your body break down the food if you take it before a meal. Sadly, our body just doesn't work that way. There's no scientific evidence to back up that they are helpful in the process.

It's really, really interesting. And they have been tried and tried again and again in scientific research. A lot of them can include amylase, protease, lactase, sucreys, lots of different interesting things. But they come in a big bulk, loads of them together. And that's also part of the problem. And then in a capsule, it basically just gets destroyed in your stomach acid the minute it hits your stomach. so it's not really going to help the process where your saliva in your mouth essentially is the first type of enzyme that breaks down food. So what you want to be doing, first of all,

is stopping the extra supplements, getting a notepad, pen and paper and start your symptoms. Start off on what we do in the clinic would be a day of basically cooked foods you can tolerate, have a normal day with no symptoms. Then the next day you introduce one singular item without stress on a day where you're happy you've had lots of sleep you have lots of water and it's a trial and error process it's much easier to do it supervised but there is no golden bullet because we're all different ella and sometimes it can help probiotics might be beneficial so some supplementation to support gut bacteria might be beneficial to help support your gut bacteria but you kind of want to start on a beige neutral ground and then build things to it because otherwise

you'll never know where your symptoms are coming from. Is it stress that you're just not breaking down your food well? Is there an intolerance? Is there something we need to discover? And you will only know it by keeping a food diary that's very methodical. I hope that does explain it. But if you need help, you can go to your GP, you can get on a waiting list. Now, it might be a long waiting list on the NHS, but you can ask to see a dietitian to go for a FOBMAP diet. A FOBMAP diet essentially stands for fermentable, oligod, di, saccharides, monosaccharides, polyols. So all the different types of fibre strains that can cause you to have digestive a reaction to because our body

kind of fizzes when it eats them all and you can get some bloating extra gas and not everybody can tolerate these components very well. A Fodmatt diet should always be supervised, always because you have to take food out and then reintroduce it and it can be restrictive and trigger eating disorders or disordered eating habits. So it's really important. Get on that waiting list or if you want to, you can see the Retrition Clinic. You can also email info at Retrition.com if you want to book in to see a dietitian. But a free option is definitely get on a waiting list if you want to go down a Fodmat diet. It's really complex digestive issues. They're really not something that there's one magic fix for because everyone's so unique.

Yeah. And I think that again speaks to, I feel like we're slightly bashing supplements at the moment as a general rule. And it's not that they don't have a time and a place, but I think this magic bullet by digestive enzymes and all would be good is probably just a bit too much wishful thinking if you are having that real digestive challenge. If only they did work. Honestly, if only that would solve your problems. But sadly, I think the money you probably spend every month on those could be saved towards an actual consultation with someone that could probably help you. That is such a great way of thinking about it. Okay, Alison's question is our next question. It's really brilliant, actually. And it really is a nice tangent from Danielle. She's asking,

are all beans born equal? I love beans so much. I love that they're trending. But is any bean nutritionally better than the other? For example, a company like bold bean code, those of you not in the UK as like a premium bean in a glass jar, is it worth paying four times more for those? Or is a tin of traditional bait beans a sin? What about pouches like merchant gourmet? Are they UPFs? You've talked so much about the challenges as well of eating on the move. When I pop out for a quick lunch at work, what's the best option of a bad bunch? So two questions in there. One about lunch on the go. One about beans. I love the bean one. I do too. And also, beans born equal. You guys are coming up with some amazing one-liners for our questions today.

For me, nutritionally speaking, all beans are pretty much on a par in terms of providing you with the protein and fibre you need. And I don't want to alienate people because of the cost. If you're buying tinned beans, beans in a cardboard box, anything, I just want to see people get more fibre. Ninety-six percent of us do not get enough. So that's my initial reaction, Ella, to the bean question. But different beans bring different benefits. Yes, different beans bring different benefits. So let's cover those in a set agree. I would just say, to your point, right, nutritionally speaking, they're born equal. So I think that's really helpful information. I would say from a cooking perspective, they are worth paying more for if you can,

depending on what you're cooking. Because generally speaking, the beans that are in your glass jars are much higher quality. They're often using like airloom varieties. They're using, most importantly, the slow cooking process. So they're then creamier. They're going to hold their shape in a more delicious way. So you do get a flavor and texture benefit for sure of a glass jar bean that's more expensive versus a tin.

That is unfortunately true. They taste so good. Oh my God. They're so delicious. I can eat them out the jar. For sure. And so I think then it depends like, what are you making? because this whole idea of trying to be plant forward

and put plants in the middle of the plate is the butter bean the hero of the dish and you're making this a necessity evening for your friends in which case I feel like if you can investing in that super premium delish bean in the way that you would get your roast chicken to be the centrepiece is worth doing. If you're going to blend them into a hummus,

you're probably not going to get the same level of benefit of paying up for it. So I would just say it depends what you're doing. Same like if you're going to roast your lentils until they're really crispy, It's not going to make any difference of getting the super premium lentil. But when they're the real star of the show

in the way that, as I said, you might have like a roast chicken or something like that, then I think if you can, it's worth purchasing. But nutritionally speaking, you're not going to get the added benefit. And then to eat on the go,

I've always recommended this type of pouch, like merchant gourmet pouches, to people that are in offices and they just want to quickly add something to a salad they've just brought because it does mean you're getting more fibre and protein. And some of these pouches, they're not preserved with all the emulsifiers and additives and extra salt and sugar.

It's just the lentils in a pouch. And sometimes with a little bit of flavour. And that then comes back to this, you know, the way of looking at ultra-process foods and kind of trying to draw that line between basically processed foods and ultra-process foods. And the simplest way, I think, to do it as a someone just at home is to think, like, can I make this at home? And in that instance, like, 100%, you could get your lentils, you could add a little bit of oil and salt and some oregano or some bay leaves or some flavor. and pop them in a pouch, and that's all they're doing there. They're just like making them more convenient for you. So that's not ultra processed.

That's just processed. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's great. Nothing wrong with that. My only grapple is that when will they invent recyclable pouches? Because my big bug bear is the plastic, single use plastic. So hopefully we're starting to move away from that and we'll be seeing brands coming up with a solution. I know it is possible because years ago when I worked with that,

baby food company, we made the first ever recyclable pouch. So I know that there are options coming in on that front. Ella, do you want to give us some quick eating on the move tips? Oh, yes. A great question there. Look, there's no perfect way to do it.

I, as everyone probably knows, I love batch cooking. And so I do think that the easiest thing to do when it comes to really having a nutritionally dense meals that are delicious and that save you money and good for you is to batch cook. And just whatever you've had for supper, just make more of it and either quickly warm it up and then take it in something that will keep it hot while you're at work or if it's, I don't know, quinoa or pasta or whatever it is, just have it room temp. And that's such a win.

But otherwise, I think, you know, gosh, don't overly stress about it. You know, it's just your classic, isn't it? Like if you can get a salad that has whole grains or lentils and things like that, that's such a win, you know, trying to have, yeah, beans through nuts and seeds, those mixed bags of nuts that you can. can keep on your desk as such a win. It's just, again, it's just such a reflection, not to be depressing. I feel like there's such a theme. I feel like Monday's episode so uplifting and this episode is a bit depressing. So I really want to give you a good angle here. But the problem is, it's just the reality is unfortunately like our food system's just so broken, isn't it? And like your meal deal type items, you know, they're just full of UPFs and it's quite difficult to find a great choice. There are better choices, but it's quite difficult to find a like delicious.

nutritious option because unfortunately they're really, really dominated by chocolate bars. What you have to do is I've, I agree. I've spent years with clients kind of dictating what to buy instead of a sandwich on the go or a wrap because they're never fulfilling enough. They never have enough protein or veg or fibre in the filling and the bread itself, as we know, is often poor quality, is buy the separate items. Even a fresh baguette is better to get in the shop shelves and then pair it with your favorite piece of cheese or the beans in the tin or the hummus that you just slice avocado and just

kind of build it yourself and that is actually going to be cheaper sometimes than the meal than the meal deal or if you've got cucumber at home and it sounds weird take in the cucumber and lunchbox and add it to the fresh baguette you're going to buy that you know that you have in your local supermarkets you've kind of got a what do you call it? Today is a day of words for me deconstruct deconstruct Ella instead of thinking of buying your ready-made meals you've got to go deconstruct and make everything from scratch

yeah I think that's a really nice idea actually just buy small easy little picky bits component parts and bring them together love that you get little shots of kaffir and pots and things and you compare it all together but again if you're going to save money make it at home yeah and especially like on a Sunday just do a big stew

like here we just talked about beans but like do a big lentil stew or chickpea stew you know it's you can get 10 plant points in there. It's so easy to make loads of it. And then you can just heat it up in the morning if you don't have a microwave or something at work. And then it's ready for lunch. And it's so good for you. Nothing that you buy that we're just talking about tastes amazing. So you're kind of winning on every front. Like it's probably going to be more delicious. It's going to be more nutritious. And it's going to be so much cheaper. I can't get over

how much everything costs right now, Ella. Like honestly, when I was away and I went to the airport and I was just looking at the cost of just one one cup of matcher or coffee and then one yeah sandwich or salad or fruit pot whatever it is you are just it's just so expensive it's not fair I think we've got time for probably one more haven't we okay let's take julia's question julia said thank you for brightening my week twice a week thanks julia with the ever informative and very energetic wellness scoop podcast I'm enjoying the new format very much Here's my question. My partner and I shifted to what I would describe as a vegetarian slash plant-based diet in the last year. That said, we're happy to eat fish and would

really want to avoid an omega-3 deficit. How often would you recommend we should consume oily fish to maintain healthy levels of omega-3? Also, does tinned fish count? We do eat seeds such as cheer and plex, but I remember re-mentioned that those are not as well absorbed by the body. Thank you both, and please keep spreading joy and sensible information as there is too little of both around. Oh, I hope we've been joyful today, guys. Me and Ella just feel like we've been a bit negative, but I really hope this is helpful. And the recommendation in the UK is different to other countries. In Australia, for instance, they give the guidance to how much Amiga 3, and I remember researching that for the science of nutrition books. We don't here in the

UK, but I think it's not going to be long until we do. At the moment, the guidance is one to two portions of oily fish a week, two portions of fish, one of which is oily. However, we With the oceans declining, different sources of fish don't count in the same ways they're used to. And like you've quite rightly mentioned, plant-based sources that come from nuts and seeds contain alfalinoyic acid. And that takes a lot longer to convert into the EPA and DHA you need in the body, which supports our brain. EPA and DHA are needed because our brains are 60% fat. We need that omega-3 for good cognitive function. We also need omega-3 for heart health.

So my recommendation would be to just get as much of it in plant forms as you can frequently across the week. And I would say it's one of the supplements if you can spare the money that might be a really good investment is a good quality omega-3. And I know Ella's discussed that before. If you don't eat oily fish particularly like sardines and salmon and mackerel, which a lot of people don't, it is most definitely worth considering adding seeds to nearly every sprinkle once a day. Cheers seats are fantastic and over time that probably is enough but to be safe

if you can take a supplement guys it will help your heart and it will help your brain and your joints and your skin I have recommended it before but the one that I use is the Viridian one and it's really good okay thank you guys

so much for listening today as a wrap up I think reminders gluten not the villain obviously if you have C-Lect disease or a diagnosed sensitivity that's totally different If not, it's not inflammatory. The whole grains can be good for gut health as can the proper sourdough.

But remember that bread does exist, unfortunately, on a continuum from homemade sourdough at one end. What I should have said when we discussed that, Ella, just quickly, is it sometimes going for a fresh whole grain is better than a shop-bought sourdough. Because like Ella said, the shop-bought versions aren't really sourdough, sourdough. They're not sourdough. To make proper sourdough, it's honestly, it takes two days. And so the reality, imagine, no... mass produced company can spend two days making a loaf of bread. It's just not possible. And it's

like, you know, in London, like people are charging seven pounds for a sour dough loaf. Like, you're just not going to get that in Tesco. It's just not possible. So it's not really sour dough. Unfortunately, there is a kind of, yeah, a bit of fakery going on there. So I wouldn't get sucked into that. I think Reese absolutely right. I think Jason's is the best brand that's in supermarkets for sure. I think have a look at what's in your bread. And if you can upgrade it, worth doing. It's also, by the way, very, very easy, especially in like a breadmaker or something like that to make your own bread, just for what it's worth. I know not everyone has time. And even the cottage cheese bread, the viral trends are actually good things to have

in your diet. They have so many seeds and extra fibre in them. So that was our first recap. Yeah, I'm going to sourdough course next week. So I'm going to update you on that. Can you write the letter E on top of it for Ella? Like get it branded. I'll do an R for you. Oh, thanks. Okay. And then plant points. Just take everything as a win. I wouldn't get sucked into quarters and kind of, you know, is it, isn't it, just everything? Tick it off. Chocolate, yes. If it's dark chocolate and coffee, yes, tea, probably not. And remember, dark chocolate really is quite good for us, rich in antioxidants and supports your mood, brain, heart health. So get that dark chocolate in. Variety is obviously key with your 30 pounds a week.

And omega-3s are essential, as we said. If you're eating oily fish a couple of times a week, but probably for lots of people who aren't doing that necessarily. topping up with the good quality supplement. This is somewhere where supplements are positive, I would say. I agree. They do definitely have a place. And remember, digestive enzymes may not be the cure to things. You might have to keep a little food diary. You can get free support in the NHS, but it's a long wait.

But what you definitely need to do is start with easy digestible meals like jack of potatoes, white pastas, sort of things, then add one thing at a time and keep a nice diary because then you actually can give that to a professional. I love it. Well, thank you guys for listening. And next week, don't forget, we've got Tim Specter. to hear Q&A gut health special.