The Wellness Scoop - The Gut; Why it Matters

Episode Date: September 11, 2018

Matt and Ella talk to lead researcher Dr Megan Rossi about the overall importance of the gut, also known as a 'second brain', in maintaining both physical and mental health. Looking at the nitty gritty of digestion, bloating, microbiomes, sourdough, kombucha and how our body works.  See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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please go to connectsontario.ca. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Delicious Yellow podcast, hosted by me, Ella Mills, and my husband and business partner, Matthew Mills. Today we're talking all things gut, looking at why our gut matters, the role it plays in our well-being, and getting to grips with the gut-brain connection. So I'm really excited that we've got Dr. Megan Rossi on our show today, and she's going to be answering all our questions, and we have a lot of questions. So Megan is a dietitian and a nutritionist with an award-winning PhD, no less, in gut health. And she leads the research at King's College London on nutrition-based therapies in gut health. And we think she's basically an all-round wizard on this subject. I had a lot of issues with my gut and my digestive health when I wasn't very well. And I spent

a good few years looking like I was about six months pregnant and in a lot of pain. So this is a topic that completely fascinates me. I found working with a nutritionist and changing my diet and things like yoga all very, very powerful in managing some of these issues. But I'm really looking forward to starting to understand a little bit more about why they potentially helped. So welcome, Megan, and thank you so, so much for coming on our podcast. We're so excited to have you. So gut health is a really hot topic at the moment in the health space. So can you start us off with the basics of why we need a healthy gut?

What does it do? And how does our digestive system actually work? Yeah, guys, it's an absolute pleasure to be here. So when it comes to gut health, you know, there's so many fascinating aspects of why it's important to have a healthy gut. But if we narrow it down, I think there's three key things we can think about. The first one is that the majority of our immune system actually resides within our gut. So around 70% of our immune cells lives in our gut.

So if we want a really strong immune system, we need to have a healthy gut. The second one, and this one's kind of only come about in the last 10 or so years and it's our understanding that our gut can actually communicate to all of our other organs and therefore we think that our gut is actually central to the health of things like our heart and our kidneys and our brain so there's that communication going on and then the third element which I think most of us are more familiar with is that having a healthy guts are really important for digestion and absorption of your food. So if you don't have a very healthy gut, no matter what you're feeding yourself, you might not be absorbing the nutrients. So it's those three things I think, you know, really for me encapsulates the power of gut health.

And so I've heard people call the gut the second brain. I don't know if that's an expression you you connect you're not at all but it would be so interesting to understand a little bit more about that like I listen I've been stalking I stalk all our guys every week very flooded yeah and I was listening to some really interesting things you were sharing and you were talking about how actually every couple of seconds our stomach is or our digestive system our gut is talking to our brains and you said they're chatting every few seconds i had this brilliant like kind of image in my mind like what are they chatting about you know it's our second brain is always chatting to our head like what

what are they talking about literally everything you know whether we're hungry how stressed we are whether we're safe or something's trying to invade us like they're like you said constantly chatting to it they are literally best friends so gut health can have an impact on your mental health then is that is that right yeah it's it's got such an impact and i think now we've understood about our gut microbiota so the trillions of microorganisms we have more of an insight to how that communication may actually work and so so what in in that case what are the best things or what are the worst things to be able to feed your gut then to try and hopefully create the best connection possible? One of the really interesting things Ella mentioned about it being our second brain and why I think that concept has

come about is because unlike any other organ in our body, our gut actually has its own control center. So it doesn't need the brain to tell it what to do. It can actually do its own thing. All our other organs actually need the brain to tell it to function like a heart to beat and all that sort of stuff. But of course, our brain, you know, is very domineering and it still likes to have, you know, it's control freak. Yeah. So, you know, although our gut is the second brain in the end, you know, our gut, our brain has quite a powerful impact on our gut. And that's where, I guess, the concept around things like whether mental health can actually have an impact on our gut health. And there was some really incredible research recently done, which confirmed that there is this link that our microbes can actually talk to our brain.

And for a lot of people, it's kind of a little bit like hippy-dippy. Oh, is this really a thing? Because they're in such separate parts of the body, how can they actually communicate? And what they did to really confirm and highlight and show the world that this is a thing is that they randomised people with depression into either getting a probiotic, which is a type, is that they randomized people with depression into either getting a probiotic, which is a type of live bacteria, or getting a fake probiotic. So it's called a placebo. And

that's to make sure that it's not just in people's heads. So there's like a fake intervention versus the live cultures. And then what they did is they got those people to take that supplement every single day for six weeks. And they scanned their brain using this special technique known as MRI. And what they found is that those who had the probiotic actually had different parts of their brain stimulated when they got shown negative images compared to those in the placebo. So what that is highlighting is that the microbes are able to change people's, I guess, resilience to negative images and negative emotions.

So that was a really nice proof-of-concept study about how they actually are communicating. Interesting. My mum, she had brain cancer. And actually, when she was diagnosed with brain cancer, they told her that one of the best things that she could do would be to start having probiotics every morning. She kept doing that the whole time. Yeah, they said to really look after her gut. And I think that was also her immune system as well.

And I guess, you know, when we bring it back to what can people actually do, well, I think the research is too early to say everyone should go and take a probiotic for their mental health. But there's been a really, really cool study which showed that actually diet can impact our mental health. And how does that work? So what they did was they randomised people to either getting a Mediterranean style eating, and that's things like plenty of plant-based foods, extra virgin olive oil, legumes,

nut seeds, all that sort of great stuff, or getting a counselling therapy. They got either intervention for 12 weeks and then they got them to come and fill out different surveys and they measured, I guess, their mental health status. And these people were actually moderate to severely depressed. And when they came back, they found that those in the dietary intervention had a significant change in their mental health status. In fact, 30% of those participants would have been classified as no longer depressed, while only 8% in the placebo group. So that is just focusing on diet. Now, it is important to highlight that these people

had moderate to severe depression, so most of them were on medications and stayed on their medications. So it's not to say everyone should just stop medications if you're on them. But maybe if you've got earlier stage depression, instead of going to the medication straight away, you could look at your diet. And is there anything in particular in your diet? You said the kind of Mediterranean diet. Why that?

What was it? Are there anything in that that has a specific effect on the gut? Yeah, so many factors. But one really interesting point is it had 50 grams of fiber per day in it. Wow. So which is 20 grams or so more than we're, because there's about 30 a day that we're meant to have, right? Yeah, absolutely.

So it's gone way beyond that. And for anyone, listen, what are the best types of fiber? What are the easiest things just to add into your everyday to be able to get that? Yeah. So any plant-based whole food. So whole grains, nuts, seeds, all the veggies, all your fruits, legumes, all those sorts of things. And it's little tips that you can do, for example, on your breakfast. If you just get a handful of mixed seeds and just sprinkle them on your breakfast, in your porridge or whatever you're having, that's like an easy win to add an extra little boost of fiber.

We're really big believers in the idea that health is a 360 approach, right? It's how you eat. It's how you exercise. It's your work. It's your relationships. It's our sense of purpose. All the things we're kind of looking at in our podcast seems hickety-pickety in a way, but we think it kind of adds up to a picture of health in the sense that I think it creates genuine happiness. And it's really interesting seeing the effect of

diet on the gut, but do these other areas impact as well? Because, you know, it's something people do talk a lot about, kind of stress and sleep and exercise, the way we move. How much does that impact on it alongside the way that we're eating? Yeah, look, stress is a huge impact on gut symptoms. In fact, most of my IBS patients highlight that when they're more stressed, their symptoms go straight up. So how that works is when we think about our nervous system, there's two key things to remember. We've got this one type, which is called our parasympathetic nervous system. And you can kind of think of that as the rest and digest. It's really calming on the body. It helps really soothe our digestion. And the other arm is called our sympathetic nervous system. And the nickname for that is fight or fright. So that's really adrenaline pumping, really rushing.

And the blood moves away from our gut to things like our heart and our muscles. So that is really not supporting good digestion. So when we're stressed, we have more of that sympathetic nervous system activation and less of that parasympathetic nervous activation. So that's one of the ways which stress can really, I guess, trigger symptoms and gut symptoms in a lot of people. So if someone's looking at a diet that makes them, does not make them happy, but they're losing weight quickly, it's actually kind of counterintuitive

because you're taking away one and taking away from the other. Spot on, yes. And it sounds, you know, cliche, but it really is about balance. You know, no perfect diet will ever, you know, outdo super stressed, no sleep on your gut health. And so there's also no point getting stressed about your diet because that's also going to be counterintuitive to actually supporting your body, which I think is also so interesting because we can get quite hung up on stuff. And that could actually arguably make it actually be worse. It really does and I see that really vicious cycle. Once people start to go, my diet's not very good or I've got an intolerance,

then they start getting more anxious around food. They cut down the food, they decrease their microbe diversity and that's this really vicious cycle and they can tumble into anxiety and depression, all those sorts of things. So it is important to see the signs early and be like okay take a step back it's okay I don't need to eat perfectly or yeah so one thing that's quite interesting here is that you know and I think it's a question we get from our readers a lot and um I know something you've touched on is it feels like it's much easier to control our plate because it's much more within our own capabilities than trying that sense of mindfulness that stress control because

the stress can solve and come from external factors be it your boss or the tubing late or traffic or you know kids keeping you up or waking up early in the morning exactly anything like that but I think what we're saying here is that you've got to find a way to kind of take responsibility for that. And it's no good just kind of focusing on your diet. Yeah, absolutely. And I see it all the time in my clinical practice with people who have gut issues.

I always like to talk about an element of diet, but also things like the mindfulness and the meditation and the yoga and really try highlight the importance of stress management. And they're always fixate on the diet. They go straight to it and go, great, I can do the diet. Can you tell me more about how much portions I should have, when I should be eating this, when I should be eating that. And I say to them, you know, diet has a role, but no matter how perfect your diet is if you're not focusing on the stress management and doing things like mindfulness then your gut is not going to be in good gut health

and I was going to say do you have any tips on that for people like you know is there anything that you've done or your clients have done that's helped bring those elements into their life because it feels unmanageable I think sometimes it really doesn't like you said stress it comes from all different directions so you can't always you don't know when it's coming necessarily because you don't know that your boss is gonna be in a bad mood or that the jubilee line's cancelled that day you have to kind of take it back and remember that in the end you're controlling your own thoughts obviously there's going to be all these external factors, but in the end, you know, you are your own boss. So it's about teaching yourself through things like mindfulness and meditation to come back and no matter what's happening around you, how crazy the world is,

you are in control. And that's what the mindfulness and meditation techniques teach you. Now, I'm certainly not an expert on mindfulness or meditation, but in my clinic, what I find really helpful is that I recommend my patients do 15 minutes of a headspace or calm or one of those other mindfulness apps every single day. So setting an alarm so they do it at the same time every single day to build that habit because it takes about nine weeks for humans to build a habit. So, you know, you could miss it one day, which is fine, but, you know, 15 minutes is all it is, but you have to be consistent with it. And I've seen some, you know, incredible results on people's ability to

push back on the stress, no matter what's happening around them, inside them, they actually feel a lot more calm and in control. So I have to ask one thing because you touched on it earlier and i saw it on your instagram page back to my stalking um which was so interesting was um as matt knows and some of our readers i'm quite obsessed with yoga for me it's been an amazing tool for stress relief and kind of my mind as well as my body and really helped my digestion and i saw a very interesting study on your instagram page about the power of yoga on the gut. Can you tell us all about it? Yeah.

And maybe you'll get Matt to yoga class because I'm trying. We will convince him. Yeah, exactly. I've just done my first couple actually. I'm enjoying it a lot more than I thought. Yeah, he was pretty good as well. Yeah. I don't know about that. Practice makes perfect.

I'm keen anyway. Yeah. Yeah, so it was another great study where they did that similar, I guess, study designed to the hypnotherapy where they randomized people with IBS to either getting that gold standard diet or getting yoga therapy. Now, both of the interventions lasted for 12 weeks, and what they found is that both groups had equal efficacy or equal effectiveness on their gut

symptoms so about 80 percent of people in both groups said they had their gut symptoms under under really good control after that intervention so the people in the yoga group hadn't changed their diet at all not at all no didn't even focus on diet just and how does it help yeah so there's a number of potential mechanisms but one i think is probably the most powerful is the breathing. Yeah. So that breathing actually stimulates that parasympathetic nervous system we discussed before, which is that rest and digest. So it's allowing more time to calm the body

and the digestion to work properly. So it downplays that stress and increases the rest and digest. That's so interesting. That's so cool. Yeah, because if anyone hasn't done yoga before the kind of whole principle of yoga is kind of quietening the mind and you do that through various things but the breath and linking the breath with your movement is the kind of core of what you're trying to achieve and so that's i guess why it works which is absolutely fascinating

and the gentle stretching as well on the intestine can help de-stimulate the overly stimulated intestine in some people that causes cramping. So it's thought to kind of relax it as well. So it sends pulses along the intestine. And how about other types of exercise outside of yoga? Do you see the same kind of positive effects from that too? Yeah. So I think when it comes to IBS symptoms, any sort of exercise can help de-stress some people. But also, in contrary to that,

if people are doing really hard HIIT sessions at really high intensity and they're going to the level of breaking, that can actually cause a little bit of leakiness. So it's important not to kill yourself when you're exercising. But for people without gut issues, exercise has been shown to

increase your gut microbe diversity, which is associated with better overall health. So exercise is really important, another element. So not just, you know, the diet, but exercise can help. Yeah. Interesting. And fermented foods are really trendy at the moment. We hear lots about them in our world, things like sauerkraut, sourough bread kombucha kefir etc do you make them and and do you do you think they help yeah so i i'm a huge fan of fermented foods and i'm you know it's one of the trends which i hopefully is here to stay because i think it has so many benefits for it they're delicious i'm obsessed with sauerkraut yeah it's so good um and like our ancestors have been doing it for thousands of years. So it's not like it's a new concept. It's just something we've started to go, actually, you know,

we've been relying on all these processed foods for so long and we're having all these increased risks of chronic diseases like diabetes, heart disease. Maybe we should go back to our kind of grassroots where they all relied on fermented foods. And one of the things I think about fermented food is that they're so flavoursome. So it's not just the potential health benefits, although they have been linked with things like lowering blood pressure and bone health and things like that. But they're such

a tasty addition, as you said with the sauerkraut, like to your meals. The tanginess of it. Oh, I love it. And one of the things I love to make the most is kefir because it's just so easy. And to make any of the fermented foods, you actually only need two ingredients. So one of the ingredients is the live microbes, so like the little colony of them. And the second ingredient is their food,

whatever food that particular microbe likes. So for kefir, I've actually brought it along because... Oh, nice. Oh, my gosh, i wanted what was in the jar i thought you brought us snacks you guys can describe oh my gosh okay matt what do you got here wow it looks like i thought it was teeth for a quick second little kind of white sort of jelly like kind of cauliflower i think yes exactly sort of jelly-like kind of cauliflower i think yes exactly sort of popcorn-y cauliflower but looks squidier yeah yeah it's like kind of clumps of lip seal or something like that

yum yeah so that there is what we call the kefir grains they're not like normal whole grains but what they are is like the little home that the microbes have built because in the naked eye we can't actually see microbes so what you're seeing is their home like a microbe house it is indeed so like the spiders would build a web the um kefir uh microbes build those grains to kind of protect them so all you do is add that into some milk and those types of um kefir microbes love lactose which is the milk sugar so they ferment that milk sugar and produce a number of beneficial things like organic acids which gives the kefir a nice refreshing crisp bite to it yeah um everything that's fermented is quite tangy it is yeah so it's a quiet taste

um but you can adjust so normally if you're new to making kefir you just leave it for 12 hours to ferment if you like a little bit more you'd go 24 hours to ferment so it's really very easy it's so easy i always have some rolling um and i just can you do it with a coconut milk or something like that i've seen them on the market i've never tried it yeah so there's all different types of kefir grains so they're the dairy ones and you can't because they like lactose the milk sugar you can't put it with a plant-based milk because there's no lactose in it so that would kill them but there are water grain kefir interesting which feed off the sugars okay in the other types of plant-based milk so it's according to what type of microbe you have according to what you feed it so you got to

match the friends up there you do you do you have to them. And then one of the other questions we had, because again, I feel like it's something you read a lot of and it can be quite confusing. There's literally one letter difference. It's prebiotics and probiotics. And what is the difference? Do you need both? Why do you need both?

Yeah, so probiotics, the P-R-O biotic, is the live microorganisms. And you can get them in capsules or you naturally find many different types of microbes in those fermented foods we spoke about. When it comes to, I guess, the health benefits, taking a capsule, there's probably not enough evidence to suggest everyone needs to take one.

I think adding a range of fermented foods in your diet is probably a really good idea. And often also cheaper, you know, because to make something like sauerkraut is very inexpensive. You know, it's really focused on a very simple ingredient like a cabbage. Yeah, that's all it is. Yeah, and you can make it at home.

It's very simple and tastes good. Like I want to get my nutrients and my probiotics from food, not from a capsule. We'll make sure we share a recipe for you guys just in case anyone's thinking, I've got to make sauerkraut. We'll get a recipe ready.

And then the prebiotic, so PRE biotic, is essentially food for the good microbes. Okay. And that's found in a range of different types of plant-based foods. Like the keys are legumes, garlic, onion, artichoke, but so many. I wouldn't be fixating on any one in particular because there's so many out there. Right, and as we said, you want that diversity anyway anyway so you want to be focusing on getting a little bit of

it all yeah but presumably not getting it all every day because i think that's one of the things that can be quite confusing and generally not just with your gut health but kind of the way we eat is that sense of like you've got to eat every different chickpea and lentil and black bean and tomato and orange and all the rest but every single every single day, but it's not really possible. But it doesn't need to be in every meal, right? It's a kind of across a period of time. Across a day, but we would, if we're having, you know, most of our meals based on plants, we would actually get prebiotics every day in our diet. Okay, so you don't need to really be worrying about it. I wouldn't be fixating on, I need to have this type of vegetable. It would just be,

you know, having a diverse type as you can. For example, if you're in the supermarket and you can buy just one type of pepper, a red one, why not buy the red, yellow and green? They all have different types of plant chemicals in it. So it's just small little things you can do to increase that diversity. Because that's a question we get quite a lot actually from readers is people saying, you know, they've made a decision to change their diet and they've maybe gone from eating kind of their five a day every week to trying to do their five a day every day and really focusing on the kind of beans and legumes and things like that

and then saying, I'm getting really bloated or, know farting quite a lot excuse me um we all do it like about 20 times a day it's a natural thing um and so people feeling you know am I doing something wrong and is that what it is basically yeah absolutely so one of the things when the the bacteria and yeast and all the things in us eat uh these prebiotics and the fire but one of the natural things they do is release gas. And our body can cope with certain amounts of slow and gradual to kind of give your body time to adapt to this extra load of um of the fermentation going on inside you which is really beneficial but too much of anything all at once it's kind of microbes kind of binge eat on it you know um so it's just being gentle and slow for someone who's trying to just start out in this journey um what are the best tips that you can give to build a plate or

build their meals each day so that they can get the most balance possible? Yeah, so I think one of the really key things is that when we are trying to make a change to our diet, we do it slow and gradual. So not only like we spoke about, so your gut can adapt, but also to make these changes long term. Sustainable. Yeah. If it's not sustainable, then you might, you know, feed your gut for a month and then you starve it and then that's going to have that knock on effect. So it's about long term. You know, you have our microbes for life. We want to really look after them for life. So one of the targets I like to recommend to a lot of my patients is to aim for about 30 different plant-based foods a week.

Now, for some people, that's like, oh, my God, that is way too much. Does that include nuts and seeds and beans and things as well? So what does that include? Yeah, literally every type of plant-based food. So whole grains, different types of whole grains, different types of legumes. So your rices and things like that. Yeah, wild rice, basmati. So all different, as many different types as you can,

remembering that each different type of these foods, even though very similar, give you an extra kind of compound or beneficial compound. Okay, so we had whole grains. Sorry, I interrupted you. We had whole grains, which is your rices and your quinoas and things like that um and then your beans which are all your different types of beans lentils chickpeas does hummus count hummus does count yeah but that's your chickpeas so you know it does count as one but you can't be like oh i had whole chickpeas and then hummus that's not two because i do my favourite foods.

Okay, so what else do we... Yeah, and then all the veggies. Yeah. So the different types of species of veggies. And, you know, it doesn't even need to be a completely different species of fruit or veggie. It can just be a different variety of them. So a different type of mushroom, for example. Exactly. So many types of mushrooms.

Yeah, there's so many different types. So just trying to include that diversity there. And like nuts and seeds are another really easy one, especially how you can buy for quite cheap, mixed seeds. And that's an easy one to add like three extra or four extra points per week by sprinkling that on some of your salads or stir fries. And it's very versatile. Okay, that's a really nice way of thinking about it.

So try and make a list of 30 that you think you enjoy or maybe one or two that are a bit newer and see if you can test yourself out and in terms of get them any tweak and in terms of the cooking do you have any kind of tips and tricks because i find people often say you know they stick to what they know because they know how to they how to cook it. And then, you know, people are apprehensive of a new vegetable. So say like a beetroot, you know, when we're doing our menus for the deli, for example, like, I can't tell you like people cannot stop eating broccoli and sweet potatoes. But then we'll do something with beetroot. And it literally sells one portion, no one wants it. And everyone has in their head. I hate beetroot and it literally sells one portion no one wants it and everyone has in their head i hate beetroot and so trying to do you have any kind of tips or tricks you know for that one we

found if we roast it it's really tender and then blend it up with chickpeas for hummus and you know roasted garlic or butter beans as well um it's a bit of sesame a bit of tahini um cumin olive oil lemon etc that sounds so good exactly and then you eat your beets because first of all it's pink who doesn't want to eat pink food but second of all it's like creamy it's actually brings out the sweetness of the beef and suddenly you enjoy it like do you have any kind of tips or tricks like that that you share with people to actually start thinking okay i never liked this food but actually maybe I could try it like X, Y, or Z to think I might. Yeah, because it's totally human nature to fear the unknown.

Yeah. It's kind of like, oh, that looks weird and different. And I think health food in particular as well, it's had such bad connotations for so long. It's always been about deprivation. Rabbit food. Oh, rabbit food. Yeah.

And so I think it is. It's getting through that first step of just trying it. But that comes down to great recipes and delicious food, because that's what makes it sustainable. Yeah, a bit food. And so I think it is. It's getting through that first step of just trying it. But that comes down to great recipes and delicious food because that's what makes it sustainable. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's about not going the whole way with like, for example, if you're making a spaghetti bolognese dish, instead of having 100% of the mints, why not take out, you know, a third of the mints and add in lentils? Yeah, lentil bolognese is so yum but you don't even need to go the whole way with just lentil bolognese because it helps bring i think the whole family on board with there's a little bit of lentils in there but mostly mints because they like mint so it's little introductions like that and then also in your bolognese or your stir

fry um i had like a handful of different types of stir fry vegetables in there and they can hardly even see them. And then after time, people start to get a little bit more confident that, oh, actually, yeah, you did make that once, and it was really delicious. So I think when, you know, people are introducing new foods is that we need to make them really delicious for people to get on board initially,

and then they get more confident. And also then not, as you said, to change everything overnight. Like if your family dish has always been bolognese and then suddenly you're like, guys, you're vegan tonight. Here's a lentil bolognese. They might think, and I know I found that with my friends and family. They're like, hold on a second. I'm not sure.

And then they have this negative preconception of it before they even have a bite. And so they're never going to like it. Whereas, as you you said if instead what you do is do half and half or something like that and then it's a much easier way to allow people to change their mind and I found that when I was trying to start to bring my five a day and kind of really focus on having plants in the center of my meals was I would um you know if I said to my family do you want to come over for a vegan meal they would have said no I'm fine I'm super busy but if I said oh I've made you know, if I said to my family, do you want to come over for a vegan meal? They would have said, no, I'm fine. I'm super busy. But if I said, oh, I've made, you know, described all the different salads and all the ingredients and the herbs and spices, but then said, I've also done a side of

salmon or chicken or whatever it is. And they're like, oh, nice. And then they have their, they're nearly familiar with and comfortable, but then they try the beetroot hummus or they try, I don't know, like doing a kind of um for example like people got comfortable with courgettes so then we started doing um celeriac with our courgettes with um a peanut dressing and then I found my family really enjoyed it and they started to feel comfortable having an actual plant-based meal and not that that's necessarily for everyone all the time but it was just interesting to see how it changed their preconceptions and that's our kind of number one aim isn't it to the cellar is to get people thinking wait veggies are cool i'm excited about

veggies and start having plant-based meals but you've got to i think you've got to help people get there and not expect everyone to change everything overnight because that's a big ask and as you said it's not necessarily sustainable because it's so many changes at once yeah and i think it's exactly right and it's what we talked to amelia freer actually about in our second episode, that any change has to happen over time. Typically, going cold turkey on something doesn't last very long. And so if you can just start to take little bits out as you go and look at it as a long-term process, some of it might take a year, some of it might take two years, three years, but just taking little bits away and just adding bits more in um as you go seems to be the the key to the long-term success and I think that's what I love about your Instagram is that

you do introduce people to vegetables that people are maybe unfamiliar with a little bit hesitant with and over time they see this ongoingly and they go oh actually maybe I can do this it kind of builds their confidence totally um okay So we always ask every guest at the end of our episode, what is the one practice that you live by? The one mantra or the one thing you do every single day that keeps you happy? For some people that's been a walk to clear their head. For other people that's been a saying. What is it for you? Well, I think we've bonded enough guys for me to share something slightly cheesy, maybe a little bit crazy. But the thing that my one practice would be is that I treat my gut microbes like this little inner pet.

So every meal I have, I always think, is there something on my plate that's going to feed my microbes? Again, very crazy. But like you guys with Austin, I'm sure you would never starve him. And you always want him to be well fed and very nourished. And I kind of treat my microbes that way. And, you know, by doing that, I think they've looked after me. So it's, you know, worked out really well. You mentioned that the average person farts 20 times a day. I'm not sure what the average is for Austin, but he's definitely above the average.

I think he's more about the 100 mark. And he typically tries to do them as close to me as possible each day too, I've noticed. We'll have to get his microbes checked. I'm sure he's very diverse. He eats probably too diverse a diet, including his lead sometimes and whatever else he can find. That sort of stuff is good though, playing in the dirt. It really does help increase your microbe diversity. Megan, we cannot thank you enough for coming on today. gut health has received a lot of attention at the moment but i'm not sure if there's a huge amount of understanding about it and i know we've been fascinated learning about it and i hope uh any of our listeners um at home have learned lots too and just thank you so so

much again it's an absolute pleasure guys thank you so so much and if you have any feedback on this episode we would love to hear it so please do review it please do rate it and share any of that feedback with us and otherwise i hope you can tune in for our next episode and definitely subscribe um there'll be a new episode coming out for you every tuesday thanks so much everyone you're a podcast listener and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn Ads.

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