The Wellness Scoop - The Meat Myth

Episode Date: November 5, 2019

James Wilks, producer and presenter of the best-selling documentary Game Changers, joins us to explore a plant-based diet from a totally new angle, looking at how it fuels some of the strongest and most dynamic athletes in the world. From Roman Gladiators to UFC fighters, Olympic champions, the world’s strongest man and American Footballers, we look at the myth of meat and challenge the stereotype that real men eat meat. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is an ad from BetterHelp Online Therapy. We always hear about the red flags to avoid in relationships, but it's just as important to focus on the green flags. If you're not quite sure what they look like, therapy can help you identify those qualities so you can embody the green flag energy and find it in others. BetterHelp offers therapy 100% online, and sign-up only takes a few minutes.

Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. Hi everyone and welcome back to the Deliciously Ella podcast with me, Ella Mills, and I'm happy to say my co-host is back again this week Matthew Mills. Hi everyone so last night Ella and I had a rare night out away from our little baby Sky to go see an incredible documentary that's just come out called Game Changers. The executive producer of it is James Cameron who you may have heard of from Titanic and Avatar and alongside people like Novak Djokovic, Lewis Hamilton, Jackie Chan. And it really explores plant-based eating in a completely different way to the way I think we've seen it before,

where most of the exploration has been around just general health, the positive impacts on the environment. But this was really something down to elite performance, looking at heavyweight lifters, boxers, backing up, everything that they were talking about with leading researchers and nutritionists from around the world. And we're so excited today to have both the host and the producer of the documentary, James Wilkes, a former UFC fighter who now trains elite military

groups across the world. Welcome, James. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Thanks so much for coming on. So one of the things that we were really struck by was how the origination of meat and the power of marketing around meat has really led people to believe that meat is the source of power and protein and manlyhood. When actually, in your research, when you went back to the origins of it, that was actually not the case at all. Yeah, it's really the opposite, right? So we think that meat makes us manly. But if you talk about virility and energy and being able to live into your later years, meat has the opposite opposite, right? So we think that meat makes us manly. But if you talk about virility and energy, and you know, being able to live into your later years, meat has the opposite effect, right? So for example, you know, there's a scene in the film with the lead delegate of urology for the American Medical Association, Dr. Aaron Spitz, and looks at erectile function, you know, we've known for like 20 or so years that heavy animal based meal can impair blood flow,

but it'd be never been tested on erectile function. And it's very clear that when you eat an animal-based meal, impairing your blood flow for about six to eight hours is going to impact your erectile function. And those on the, when they had the plant-based meal, they had better erections, they had basically better duration, better circumference and better rigidity. So, you know, right there, I think that's one key indicator. Because there were three guys, weren't there there three college athletes that you were testing it on and i i was scribbling notes as we were watching last night but i think one of them had 477 percent more erections during the night than he when he had his plant-based meal than the other which is just and they were equally blown away by

it weren't they yeah no it's incredible to see the difference and can we just go back even further to the origins of that where you went and looked back at some roman gladiators and found that actually they had mainly existed on plant-based or vegetarian diets can you explain a bit of that research yeah that's what really got me digging into the plant-based more so i was you know i got injured and started digging into research for nutrition for optimal recovery and performance and that's when I came across that study about the Roman gladiators so can I just interrupt for one second you were not vegan or plant-based at this point no no I was just eating a sort of typical athlete diet and then at one point I was

sort of into got into more of the paleo type thing because of the omega-6 omega-3 ratio was a bit better with the grass-fed meat and then just basically started digging into the research and when I came across that study I thought well this basically the scientist analyzed the bones in Ephesus Turkey which is the only known for sure gladiator burial site there is one small site with a few skeletons in the UK but they're not sure if they're gladiators. So there were 68 gladiator skeletons in Ephesus, Turkey. They analyzed over 5,000 bones and they could basically tell they're eating almost exclusively, if not completely plants. And I thought, well, that can't be true because you've got to have meat and animal protein to be strong and healthy. In fact, you know, maybe a year before that,

I'd walked into a restaurant and the chicken was on the menu, but it was spelt weird. And I said, well, how, why is the chicken spelt like that? And they said, oh, it's not real chicken. It's made from plants. And I said, well, where's the real chicken? They said, we don't have chicken. I say, okay, so what meat do you have? We don't have any meat. Oh, so it's a vegetarian. So do you have any eggs or let's get some animal protein. And they said, No, it's, it's a vegan restaurant. So I literally turned around, walked out, right? Because I thought you had to have animal protein at every meal to be an athlete, right? Because I was a professional athlete in the UFC. And also to be a man, I felt like we had to have, you know, animal protein. So I thought this can't be true. So that's when I really started

digging in deeper to see how could this be possible that the gladiators you know the original top fighters basically of all time eating this way and that's when I started digging into the research I thought I knew a lot about nutrition but what I really knew was from what I read in magazines and you know articles and online which is of course of influence by the industry, right, by the marketing and the funded studies by the meat industry. So that's what I thought I knew. And then when I really started digging into the peer reviewed research, and looking at the funding sources, that's when I really realised that we didn't need meat or animal protein. So there's an also really interesting bit with a lot of anthropologists from amazing universities,

where they're looking back at what we used to eat and there's a really interesting bit looking at our bone structure and sort of function and design as humans compared to sort of a typical carnivore like a lion and how different that is and can you tell us a little bit more about that because i thought that was really interesting about how how the human body isn't necessarily best designed to be a carnivore right yeah i Yeah. I mean, so, well, I think we've got to look at that. And so it's not just, is it carnivore or herbivore? You know, people say, well, we're omnivores. And so certainly it's true that we can eat anything and the body is very adaptable, the human body, right? But being an omnivore is observational. It's not a taxonomic

classification. It's certainly not prescriptive. So it doesn't mean that you have to eat both, right? Clearly, because we know that there's plenty of people in doing very well eating plant-based diets, we know there's health benefits. But from an anthropological perspective, you know, we interviewed the head of nutrition at Harvard, Richard Wrangham, and a number of other world class anthropologists. And they pointed out that, you know, 50 years ago, we were sort of limited on the tools. So there's something in anthropology called differential preservation. So what that means is that when we look at campsites, you know, where there was fires from hundreds of thousands of years ago, basically the bones and the stone tools that we use, they preserve really well, right? Whereas the plant-based matter, that would

biodegrade. So there was a bias in the archaeological record to assume that we were eating lots of meat. But now, what they've realized, they've got new tools in the last 10 to 15 years where they can look at the microscopic particles in the teeth, for example. You know, the sort of paleo crowd have suggested that we didn't eat grains previous to 10,000 years ago with the advent of agriculture. But we now know that that's not true, that hundreds of thousands of years ago, there was plenty of grain consumption, the wild grains that were growing naturally. And then, you know, they look at the teeth, which are meant for grinding tough plant tissue, unlike, you know, more of a carnivore teeth where they're, you know, they're sort of

like scissor blades to grind together. So there's many things that we know about the human body, which indicate that we're far more on the herbivorous side than we are on the carnivorous side and i thought it was so interesting how much longer our digestive tract was so am i right in saying the digestive tract of a human body is 15 times the length of our body whereas in a lion it's only four yeah so what that indicates is that we've got a longer digestive tract which allows us more time to digest the plant tissues right carnivores don't need that because they're designed by nature, if you will, to eat meat. I think what's interesting, so I went vegan in 2012 and everyone thought I was mad, especially men. They just sort of said, what will you eat? And I think there was an assumption that you're just going to eat like one lentil for dinner.

And one thing I wanted to touch on was there was a really interesting moment when you are comparing the protein of things like lentils to beef. But then the other thing is, is that what's incredible is the number of athletes that are included in the film and their achievements. I mean, there's an incredible guy in there called Patrick who during the film breaks a record of lifting 550 kilos, which is kind of such a big number. It's impossible to fathom. But if you want to imagine it, he during training and picks up and throws over a car and is seen walking down lifting four grown men so will you tell us first of all a little bit more about that kind of comparison of the lentil versus beef and the fact that you can get great protein from the plant sources but also about some of these unbelievable athletes that you spoke to yeah i mean first of all that's this is one of the biggest

sort of takeaways for me is that all protein originates in plants, right? So people saying, Oh, well, you need the meat for protein. Well, where did your protein get its protein from, you know, the meat you're eating got its protein from eating the plants, right? You talk about cutting out the middleman, which we loved. Yeah, and it's actually really inefficient, not only for the environment, but it's also the animals are doing you a disservice because they're robbing the food of fiber and phytonutrients. They're concentrating the toxic heavy metals and the pesticides. They're also adding in inflammatory mediators like AGEs, TMAO, these sorts of things that scientists are finding out

more about in the last 10 to 15 years. So it's much better always to get your nutrients from the source because you're not going to have these pesticides and things like that built up. And yeah, the athletes clearly are doing extremely well. Patrick that you mentioned, but you know, there's, you know, there's Patrick, there's Kendrick Farris, who's the, uh, he's the only male American weightlifter to represent the United States that could qualify for both the 2012 and 2016. For both of those, he was the only one to qualify from the United States he has the American record in Olympic weightlifting Brian Jennings who's a top 10 heavyweight boxer you know so just there's just some incredible athletes performing amazing feats of endurance

and strength one of the other interesting things that was raised now a very common reaction to if you say you're vegan is oh but what about b12 how are you going to get enough b12 but actually it shows that actually anyone whether you're eating a meat-based diet or a plant-based diet we're all pretty much deficient in b12 anyway yeah well the studies show that 39 up to 39 of people are deficient in b12 but the funny thing is even though the people that aren't deficient where are they getting it from well the animals are supplemented with b12 so they're supplementing anyway it's just indirectly again yeah right so it's like back in the day we would have got b12 from the dirt and from the water um but now because of

pesticides antibiotic and chlorine you know those kill the bacteria And so that's a good thing that we have sanitation now But it also kills the B12 Which again isn't made from animals It's made by the bacteria in the soil and water And so you know it's just very easy to take a B12 supplement And whether you eat meat or not You know given that 40% about 40% of people are deficient in B12 It's a good idea to take that anyway

How did you find changing your diet? I didn't do it overnight. So I sort of cut out red meat, first of all, and then chicken and then dairy, and I was doing fish and eggs. And then once I realized I didn't really need it, you know, I cut out the fish, and then I cut out the eggs, and I was completely plant based. And I think it took a bit of a time for the transition for me. Some people can do it overnight whereas some people it's better to sort of incorporate more plan-based options and just figuring out what to cook

I think is tricky for some people but now there's like so many resources and so many options in the stores in many places of the world that I think it's much easier now. And then there's a great bit with the three Miami Dolphins football players who did some blood work.

And typically they were talking about always before games they would eat as much protein as they can. There was one guy who was plant-based there. And they did some blood work that showed really compelling results on the purity of the blood and the efficiency of the blood if they had just had a completely plant-based meal instead of protein. Yeah, I mean, you can actually see it in the blood. It's really interesting. So you can eat, you know, an animal-based meal and then after two hours, you draw the blood and you put it in a centrifuge.

So you spin the blood and you separate plasma from the red blood cells. And you can literally look at the plasma and if you eat a plant-based meal, it looks sort of more like olive oil. And if you eat an animal-based meal, it looks sort of more like olive oil. And if you eat an animal-based meal, it looks more like Elmer's glue, you know, like the sort of school sort of thick white glue. It's kind of cloudy, isn't it?

Yeah, it's very cloudy. Whereas the plant-based meal, it looks see-through. So in studies, that's been shown to reduce blood flow by up to 50%. It's called postprandial lipemia, which basically means postprandial means after eating and lipemia means fat in the blood. And so when you see that, that's been associated with a 50% reduced blood flow for up to six to eight hours. The reason that happens is the animal foods impairs your endothelial function. So the endothelium is the lining of your arteries, which produces something called nitric oxide. And that nitric oxide is a vasodilator. That means it allows your arteries, which produces something called nitric oxide. And that nitric oxide is a vasodilator. That means it allows your arteries to open up. When your arteries open up, of course,

you can get more oxygen and more nutrients to the muscles. And when you eat an animal-based meal, it cripples that endothelium and shuts your arteries down. And it doesn't allow you to open up to exercise and that sort of thing. So basically, an animal-based meal is going to constrict blood flow a plant-based meal is going to allow that to open up and of course for athletic performance you certainly want your arteries to open up as much as possible and it's really cool so Tennessee Titans wasn't it one of them went vegan and his wife who was a chef was cooking for him and then giving all the meals and then I think there's a 14 of the team then went vegan and they're having their they were having their best season in 15 years and like all of them had really first of all they

were loving it thought it was delicious which was amazing to see because I think that's a really important part of it but that also their performance was incredible yeah so during the filming there was 14 they're the best season in 15 years like you said it was the first time they made it to the playoffs in 15 years and actually since filming there's been 23 of them that have been on the plant-based meal. So it just keeps growing. They really attributed that to the diet. So, you know, they said they had better energy and they were recovering quicker, which is what we're hearing from all of the athletes. And I experienced it myself as well. So it was incredible, you know, the fuel that you put in your body. And I don't really know why more professional athletes aren't really digging into this and

thinking um you know what fuel should i be putting in my body but what is what are the responses to that i mean there's so much obviously compelling data that's referenced throughout the documentary on this but obviously there are still a lot of very very successful athletes eating lots of meat what are the big pushbacks that you get from those people and the reasons that they continue to say actually i think i perform better eating meat yeah i mean you know obviously the myth is very strong um that you need meat for protein and that's even stronger within athletics and probably even stronger than professional athletics and especially the way that the industry has marketed um for us to believe that we need meat for strength and muscle, and then that

we need dairy, right, for strong bones. So we just keep consuming all of these animal products. So people push back, oh, you've got to have for calcium, you've got to have animal products for protein. They think you need it for iron. Also, people think that it gives you better testosterone, but it's just the opposite, right? So we know that just even drinking a glass of milk can reduce your testosterone by 18% within a few hours and increase your estrogen by 26% within an hour. So it's really the opposite. People think that soy products, for example, increase your estrogen and lower your testosterone. But we know that, you know, plant-based eaters have equivalent testosterone levels of free testosterone. And can you expand a bit on that incredibly powerful meat lobby that you talk about and some of the taints that you think it's had on certain research and certain so-called experts and just the size velocity the

power of that lobby and how and how they're fighting back and on that because it was i'm sure a lot of our readers have got it kind of front of center of mind as i think it was a couple of weeks ago now there was a piece that came out that said oh you know bacon and kind of processed meats and things like that don't have any effect on our health, which I know you talked about last night in the Q&A, because I think that it's becoming so incredibly confusing for people. Yeah, so I mean, not only do we have the marketing, but what we're really talking about here is the industry funded studies. And it's just when you start digging into it, it's incredible, you know, it's a multi billion dollar industry that is continuing to try and sell these products. And, you know, they're funding

these studies to come out with erroneous conclusions. And as you mentioned, the one that came out a few weeks ago was by a company called Nutri-Rec. And, you know, they're saying these are the new recommendations. I don't know why a private company thinks that they should be giving recommendations because usually that's left to, you know, national and international health authorities like the World Health Organization or the Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations or in America, the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. But anyway, they put out these recommendations saying you don't need to worry about red and processed meat. Well, but then a week later, you know, the New York Times put out a piece saying, well, the authors didn't declare previous industry ties. And, you know, when you look into it, that same organization was also

funded by a nonprofit. And they did another study saying that, oh, you don't need to worry about refined sugar, that's fine, too. You know, we talked about this in the film with a company called Exponent. And they just they're basically shills, you know, for the industry. And they're like scientists for hire, basically, that put out these conclusions to confuse the public. And that's exactly what happened here. And they did a lot of that on smoking initially, where they were trying to say that smoking has no ill effect on your health. Yeah, and in many cases, it's actually the same company. So with Exponent, they were doing that 30, 40, 50 years ago.

And now they're just using the same playbook on meat, right? So not only did they do it with the advertising, where they used to cigarettes you know they used to have athletes smoking the cigarettes and encouraging that of course you know most of them weren't even smoking um but they you know they just do it for the advertising and they're using that same exact um playbook now uh with the animal products you know see in the advertising but also for the studies so you've've really got to, when you see, first of all, the study comes out, which is erroneous based on, you know, industry funding. So for example, in that meta analysis that Nutri-Rec did regarding red meat and processed meat, they purposely left out 14 studies that showed that red and processed meat was linked to cancer. So they left out the studies, they cherry picked the studies, they cherry picked

the studies to the ones that they thought didn't show a link. And then on top of that, the media also misrepresents the findings of that studies in the headline. Because it makes it more interesting. Yeah, it makes it, you know, sells more papers, it gets more people to read online. And have you had a lot of pushback as a cast and participants within the documentary already from the meat industry? Well, I mean, the films only just come out, you know, recently in the last few weeks, right? So I think we're starting to get some of it. There was an article in Men's Health, for example. And they used they quoted two so called experts, while we dug into to see who those experts were and one of

them was literally a paid spokesperson for the meat industry you know so he was paid by the beef checkoff program in the united states um so you've really got to discredit those those things and there's people just putting out a bunch of nonsense basically and saying oh it's debunked it's debunked so one example said um the the whole film is built on this study about the Roman gladiators, only it wasn't a study, it was just an article. There was no peer review, there was no control group. And it wasn't in a peer reviewed medical journal. And the whole film was built around this premise. Well, first of all, the whole film wasn't built around this premise, it was just an inciting incident for me to dig into it. Second of all, that research was published, not in one, but in two peer-reviewed medical journals. There was a control group,

and it was peer-reviewed. So people just make stuff up, right? And then because it's online, people read the article. They don't bother digging into it themselves. Fortunately, a rebuttal came out from one of the doctors in the film, Dr. James Loomis, who's the former team physician for the St. Louis Cardinals and St. Louis Rams. And he wrote a rebuttal came out from one of the doctors in the film, Dr. James Loomis, who's the former team physician for the St. Louis Cardinals and St. Louis Rams. And he wrote a rebuttal article. But there's just a lot of misinformation out there. And they know that the public's not going to, you know, people put a bunch of citations sometimes on their work, although the Men's Health article didn't have a single citation. But many times people will put citations on. And if you go and look at the actual reference, and then open up the study, it doesn't even

reflect what the person's saying in the article. So it is pretty tricky for the public to discern what is good information and what isn't. And that's why we spent quite a few years really digging into the research with our research team to really dig through the studies. And every study we looked, where is this funding coming from? And you've got to basically discredit the ones that are being funded by industry yeah so you said at one point in the film and it's something that i really relate to that you were actually getting kind of really really frustrated and quite you know pissed off about the whole situation where you're thinking all this information's there there are these incredible really robust studies and a huge amount of data backed up by kind of

leading researchers showing that not necessarily saying everyone has to go vegan, but that a predominantly plant-based, you know, fresh fruit, veg focused diet is the most powerful thing that we can do for our health, for the environment, for performance, for everything. And yet for some reason, that's not filtering through. And I find myself, you know, incredibly frustrated by the same thing. And people will be very critical of a plant-based diet or say you're a bit mad or kind of laugh you away. And then there you have the kind of chair of nutrition for Harvard University saying that that's a brilliant thing. I mean, how did you find reconciling your feelings with that and kind of getting the message across to people that actually, you know, we should listen to this because it does matter?

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's frustrating, because, you know, I was on Piers Morgan, Good Morning Britain, a week or so ago. And it's, it's annoying that someone will just quote and say, Yeah, but the science says that, you know, being vegan rots your brain by 20% just makes it up. And he said, Oh, and then there was a study that came out saying that a vegan diet is not bad. And he was confusing it with the red meat study. So people just make all these claims and it's really frustrating. But it was great to see that the chair of nutrition at Harvard, Frank Hugh, came out saying that that Nutri-Rec study about red and processed meat was irresponsible and unethical. And also the former chair of nutrition at Harvard, Dr. Walter Willett,

who is the most published nutrition researcher in the world, who was also in the film, said that it was the most egregious, abusive evidence that he'd ever seen. So it's great when, you know, these leading researchers come out and just say, look, this is absolutely nonsense. Plan-based is the way to go. And also, you know, in the film, Dr. Walter Willett, you know, talks about dairy products and prostate cancer, not only saying that there's a correlation between those two, but showing that there's a causal effect between those two. And so for a leading researcher to come out and say this type of thing, you know, when his job could be on the line, if he overstates a claim, it's just

really incredible that we're getting mainstream world-class nutrition researchers agreeing that plant-based diets are the way to go. The good thing is if you look at the World Health Organization, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in America, they're all suggesting that we eat predominantly plant-based foods now. So they're recognizing this is the way to go. And for example, the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics says that a vegan diet is helpful for all stages of the life cycle from pregnancy, infancy, adolescence, adulthood, and into old age, including for athletes and may confer some health benefits for the leading chronic diseases, heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. So when you look at the

world's experts at the world's leading universities and the world health authorities, they're all recognizing that plant-based is the way to go so that's really encouraging I think so you've got to sort of push out the noise and don't just listen to articles online but look at the world's leading experts so I think there'll be you know a few people listening you know if you take like in the UK for example you have the food pyramid that's what you're shown in schools and your GP surgery and things like that and I, that's a long way away from recommending a vegan diet. You know, there's a whole big section of the pyramid that's dedicated to dairy products. How long do you think it's going to take until things like this ever shift or will they ever shift?

Oh, I mean, it's already changing. Within the last year, Canada's nutrition guidelines took dairy off completely as a food group for the first time ever. So I think it's really changing. I mean, when America came out in 2015, there was an investigation into the Dietary Guideline Advisory Committee. So there's nine members of the USDA, which basically set these guidelines every five years. And they basically showed industry ties. So there was up to like $500,000 a person in honorariums or speaking fees for these nine members coming from industry. It was coming from the Sugar Association, from the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, McDonald's, and this sort of thing, right? So when that industry funding, and they declared no conflict of interest, despite getting, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from these industries. And now, because that was exposed, I think that industry influence on that Dietary Guideline Advisory Committee has changed somewhat. Since there's now a little bit less industry influence, things are really changing.

So in 2015, the USDA Dietary Guideline Advisory Committee changed from a pyramid format into a plate, and they've now taken meat completely out as a food group. So they've got fruits, vegetables, grains, protein. Now, unfortunately, the dairy industry still has a pretty good hold on it. So they put dairy as a category in fact if you look at the academy of nutrition and dietetics which certifies registered dietitians in the united states if you look at the handout that they get during their education and it says that you know people should be eating three servings of dairy a day if you

look at the very bottom of the handout in the small print it says this is provided by the national dairy council the national dairy council literally gives funding for the handouts, which is just crazy that there's this influence from industry, you know, influencing these registered dietitians, which are supposed to be the professionals which are giving dietary advice. And so unfortunately, the registered dietitians themselves don't even realize, you know, they just sort of take it at face value. They don't really understand the industry funding. And so, you know, dairy is still having a strong hold on those American guidelines. However, in Canada, you know, just recently within the last year, they've taken dairy off because they're recognizing that it's really not a necessary

food group. There's some harmful effects of it. So they've taken dairy completely off. So in America, we're seeing, you know, meat has come off as a food category. In Canada, we've seen dairy come off as a food category. And I think England, you know, and other countries will follow very shortly, because the science is really very clear. 10 years ago, you would not have seen the world's health authorities recommending plant based diets, because they also bought into the myths, right? Whereas now there's so much research showing that plant-based diets are better for the chronic diseases. We know that there's both short-term and long-term health benefits from eating more fruits and vegetables and whole grains and pulses, you know, beans,

peas, lentils, that type of thing. The evidence is just overwhelming. And so I think the truth is going to end up winning. It's difficult when you're battling. It's a little bit like David versus Goliath, you know, with sort of the plant-based movement versus massive industry. And it's the same really with the film, right? It's hard to get the word out there. But I think with like the internet and the accessibility to documentaries now, you know, on the downside, it means sort of anyone can put something out. But on the upside, you know, I think that truth in the end will prevail. I love that. And there's also an environmental aspect to it, which you guys do

touch on, which is incredibly powerful. Yeah, I mean, so you know, what we eat has the biggest impact on the environment that we can possibly have. So switching to a plant based diet is the number one thing that anybody can really do as an individual in terms of helping the environment. So, you know, animal foods take up 83% of the world's agricultural land and only yields 18% of the calories. So the animal foods industry puts out about equivalent emissions as the entire transportation sector. So cars, planes, trains, automobiles. So, you know, people think, well, I can could help the environment i can have like low energy light bulbs or i could use a bit less water and that type of thing but the reality is the food that's on your plate is going to have the biggest difference you know we don't realize switching

to a plant-based diet can actually save 1 million liters of water per person per year and that's just incredible and there's a great bit where we did an episode in season one with um a leading researcher from oxford university who did one of the biggest studies ever on joseph paul on um the environment and um he was absolutely incredible about the power of a vegan diet and and you guys illustrated the same point in the film where an area the size of africa lights up showing that that's the size of land that we could replant and would no longer need to farm if the world went vegan which in light of what's going on in the current conversation around climate change is incredibly powerful we talk about this a lot at home it's like

everyone's saying we need to change now we need to change now well the one thing that you can change now literally from this minute from the second is your diet because we don't need governments to make us change our diet and so there's incredible food for thought there as well. So James if there's three things that our listeners today are going to kind of take away or remember or share or make changes to their life on the back of what are they going to be? So I think the three main points for me would be that all protein originates in plants and animals are just the middlemen number one. Number two you're going to have better blood flow, which means more oxygen and more nutrients to your muscles. And number three, you're going to have less inflammation, which in the short term

can help, you know, recover from injuries and help with athletic performance, but in the long term can help reduce your risk of the major chronic diseases, heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. It's amazing. And then once you see the film you'll also see that you can be a vegan and throw a car upside down and so you know you don't have to be a kind of meat burger eater to be strong and you know powerful it's it's incredible and honestly your work i think is going to make a huge huge huge huge difference so we are just unbelievably grateful for your time today and for the documentary as a whole because it's amazing and I like I'm not I'm not just saying this but it's a short you know it's a relatively short amount of time and it is one of the best things you'll ever see and I honestly like it's

a kind of life-changing documentary it's really really really really important I think we should all say we're going to put a screening on for Dusha Siella I want all my friends and family to see it it's called Game Changers it's on iTunes and now it's on Netflix as well. And there is a reason why it is iTunes best selling documentary ever within a week. It is incredible. It's absolutely amazing. So please, please, please go watch it. There's so much in there that we haven't talked about today. So today was just a snippet. And if people want to find out more, they can go on our website, gamechangersmovie.com. We've got lots of resources, recipes, shopping tips and also if you want to follow us on social media we're at gamechangersmovie on facebook and instagram

and at gcmovie on twitter so james thank you so so much again and thank you all so much for listening we'll be back again next tuesday bye You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn ads. Email bob at libsyn.com to learn more. That's b-o-b at l-i-b-s-y-n dot com.