The Wellness Scoop - The Nation’s Health Check, Cortisol Confusion & Stress Hacks

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

This week, we’re breaking down the new government data on the UK’s diet, from fibre and fruit and veg to vitamin D and iodine. It’s a clear snapshot of how we’re eating and why some of the most basic habits still aren’t sticking. We share what’s changed, what hasn’t, and what small shifts could help close the gap. We’re also diving into the surprising findings on insect protein. Once seen as a sustainable fix for the future, a new report suggests the environmental impact may be much higher than expected. Then we explore the rise of wearable tech for your brain, with a look at the new e-tattoo that tracks mental load in real time. Helpful tool or step too far? We discuss. Plus, we take on cortisol cocktails. Are they fact or fiction? And what actually works when it comes to managing stress? We share six simple, science-backed habits to support your nervous system. We also unpack the foods that act like drugs when eaten in excess, and what that means for your health. And in this week’s listener question: ghee, butter or olive oil. Which one should you be using in your cooking? Get your copy of Rhi's new book 'The Unprocessed Plate' HERE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And as always, we are your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhianna Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. And that's why we created this podcast, to cut through the noise and make healthier, living simple, fun and

personal. And as always, we are thrilled to be here, highlight of the week and Rhi, we've got so much good stuff coming up. Tell us what's coming in today's show. Oh my goodness. It's a huge episode everybody. So you'll all be delighted to hear that. We have the new National Diet and Nutrition Survey data reveals just how far we've slipped on the basics.

So from fruit, veg to fibre, vitamin D and iodine, what's really going on with the nation's health? Then we have why insect protein might not be the sustainable superfood we were promised and what we should be eating instead. Are we entering a black mirror moment? We're talking about wearable tech, so new tech that's come out that tracks mental load in real time. Cortisol cocktails, fact or fiction, can a drink really fix your stress?

The six science-backed habits that actually help lower cortisol and why they're simpler than you think. Then we've got three everyday foods that act like drugs when overeaten and what that means for your health. And our listener question this week, which is ghee versus butter versus olive oil. Which one should you be cooking with?

I mean, Ella, it is packed. Rhee, how are you? Ella, I'm really good. Thank you. Every week I feel like I say it, but sadly I caught an eye infection from my little one over the course of all the celebrations of the unprocessed plate book coming out. So I feel like with every up in life, there is always something ready to just bring you back down to earth.

And I just decided to embrace that. And it made me do 10 minutes in the garden of yoga Ella which as you know I haven't done in years I thought of you I thought I'm giving myself 10 minutes just to stretch because I feel rubbish and I feel better for it. I love that you did that for yourself and that's a nice recommendation for everyone else. Do you know I've been so back on the yoga train recently, and I'm so happy for it. Yeah, but you are an actual yoga guru, so you know what you're doing, whereas... Not a guru.

To me, she's still my guru, everybody. But no, I did my yoga teacher training back in 2016 and was like 17 and was just obsessed and it was such a huge part of my life. I was doing my 500 hours, but between the kids and work, yoga, if you're going to classes, it's quite a time commitment. Obviously at home it's absolutely not, it can be 10 minute chunks, but I've been back going to classes a few times a week and I feel like I've found a bit of myself again and I'm so happy. I love that. Do you know what I think that I want

to do and maybe if I'm able to get it, I'm going to make it a recommendation. It sounds really out there. Again, I feel like I've had two out there recommendations. Last week I did the breast milk jewellery, this week I'm going to try and get one of those reformer palates that you fold up and put in your house. I haven't looked into this yet. I will keep googling them for when we move that and I also quite want to open a yoga studio in the countryside. So let's see. Oh my goodness, this could be your next business. Honestly, everybody, is she not the most entrepreneurial brain you've ever met? All mad, all mad.

I can drive down and see you. I won't be too far. And come to my yoga studio. I'll be there. Have you got any recommendations, Ella? No. And I said no last week. Isn't that absolutely terrible? Guys, next week I'm going to bring you an absolute banger of a recommendation.

I've just started a new book, which I'm really enjoying, but I'm only, I think, six, seven chapters in. So it feels too early to tell you whether or not I recommend anyone goes out and buys it. But otherwise, my recommendation, really, I've just been back on my yoga training, kind of, omming and chanting and really happy. I think that's perfect. I really took on board what we discussed last week. Do you remember when we finished the show saying that if it's a wellness habit, you enjoy, obviously it means you can stick to it more. And sometimes when I get really stressed or overwhelmed now, this is also so embarrassing,

I'm also not a cool friend to have, but I kind of just take five minutes and I just sing to myself and then I go and sit back down at the computer. I love that. I love that. I just said I've been omming and chanting. I mean, everyone's got that. It's true. It's not cool. But hey, guys, you don't listen to us because we pretend to be the coolest people that were in school. Do you know what? Just an aside on that was that when I was at school, the coolest people were good at sports and I was appalling at sports. Like solid last in every race ever,

whether long distance, short distance, you name it. Just awful. It's sports day at the moment. My kids just both had their sports days. One of them is really sporty, like so fast, I'm a little speed demon, I have no idea where it's come from. And the other one takes after her mother. And she was like, what if I come last? And I was like, Angel, I've come last in everything I've ever done. I promise it's going to be okay. So yeah, we were not cool. We are not cool. But I think that's so wonderful. The pressure of those sorts of things is just too much sometimes.

I think it's great that you can be told, yeah, you can be who you want to be. Exactly. And these things don't define us. Okay, headlines that matter, things that do define us. The nation's big survey on health. We want to do a big section on this because it's really interesting and as Ree said last week as a bit of a spoiler or kind of taster for what's to come. We don't get this data very often. So this is a really, I'm going to say exciting and it's probably building on this we're not that cool persona. It's

an exciting moment in the year. For all of us nutritionists Ella, we wait for the survey to come out. We're really keen. When is the next survey coming out? So it is a big deal. OK, so we talk us through what's going on. What are we seeing in the nation's health? This is looking at the data guys from 2019 to 2023, the way that Britain as a nation is eating.

So first of all, let's just put some context in. It was a really poignant time. It was the pandemic. It was COVID. It was harder to collect data. And we were all, I think, intrigued with what these changes would bring. Would we see more benefits because people were at home more, they had more time to actually cook, to do things? Or would we see a complete decline? And obviously, we can't pin everything on the pandemic.

I think most lifestyle habits you've formulated throughout your whole life so you know the pandemic might enhance it or it might just completely scrap it. What we found, let's start with teenagers, so sadly only one in ten Ella and fewer than one in five adults still hit the five a day so that target is a miss. the fibre day. So that target is a miss. So Reece, sorry, just to jump on that, we're saying one in 10, so 10% of teenagers manage their fibre day. Yep, I had to think about that then. Yep, 10%. Honestly, it's staggering. So 96% basically of teens and adults fall short of the recommended fibre intake as well, which is also huge.

And that means that basically everybody isn't hitting 30 grams of fibre a day. They're not getting their fibre a day. And that means we're just not getting the vitamins and minerals we need as well. Do you know one thing that's always stuck with me? And maybe it's obvious, but I think I'll note it anyway, which is I saw something recently that said over 99% of this was adults, but adults in this country know that for their health they should eat their five a day. And I always just think it's a really relevant point in terms of this whole idea that we need

more education. And to me, it really speaks to the fact that we need a different food environment, because if 99% of us know we should eat our five a day, yet 10% of teenagers, 20% of adults are managing it, it says a huge amount about why, and I think we'll have to look ourselves in the mirror, like why do we have that golf? What is it that's creating this enormous disconnect between what we know we should be doing for our health? And I think if you stopped anyone in the street and said, would you like to have good health? I find it difficult to believe that people would say no to that question. I know there's a lot to be said. I remember writing for the the unprocessed plate book, how to restock your cupboards in your kitchen, how to create your food environment at home,

because the minute you leave the house, you just don't have that support in place at all. And the only place you can control, I suppose, is your kitchen. It also gets more interesting, Ella. Red and processed meat intake was mostly within the limits, but, and this is a gender divide here, a quarter of men still go over the amount that they eat. I remember researching for the science of plant-based nutrition, so two years ago, looking at gender differences on food, and it was really interesting. It's not something that's often studied and looked at. But of course, there is that stereotype or that societal norm that men be strong men eat steak.

And you know what I mean? Like, I didn't mean to say no, no, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. And I found a few papers that did actually indicate that that is almost an internalised perception of how a male should eat. And it's very difficult for men, which explains perhaps why men do go over the intake of processed meat massively compared to females. But, you know, it's hard to draw upon data until obviously we have bags and bags of data. And it leads me on to sugary drinks, because you'd think that with all the knowledge that we know now about Coca-Cola, Fanta, lemonade, whatever it might be, Sprite, whatever your drink of choice is, that teenagers again, I mean,

they're such a forgotten demographic. I've heard people just either speak about children or adults, but teens lead on sugary drink consumption, Ella, downing over 600ml a day. Wow. And now how much sugar would that equate to? Oh my goodness, I dread to think. If one bottle of Coca-Cola, 330ml, let me look it up. I think that's around 28 grams of sugar if it's full fat. And then obviously you're pretty much doubling that as a rough estimation. Yeah, 35 grams of sugar in a 330 ml can of Coke guys.

So that's 700 grams and what should we be not exceeding in terms of our free sugars each day? 30 grams a day. Wow. So just from your two drinks, you're more than double and then add in anything else. Way more than double. It's so excessive, it's scary. And what's so interesting is I was speaking to my son's school about their lunchbox intake on school trips,

because even that went over a child's daily allowance of sugar. And I just think there is a lack of awareness about sugars, and it's become confusing because of how we talk about it as free sugars, or I think everybody's very confused about sugars but if we also draw saturated fat in so these are the fats you get from the ones that aren't good for your heart health you get from meat, dairy and if you have too much of it a little bit it's okay but both of those remain too high for pretty much everybody with just one in five adults meeting their sugar recommendations as well as saturated

fat. As in not exceeding the amount of sugar when you say that. Wow. And saturated fat. And these are both, you know, your saturated fat intake and your sugar are both linked to poor health outcomes. So we can't deny that. And there's also nutrient gaps in this report. So one in five adults have low vitamin D, which we definitely should discuss. Iodine levels are falling, especially among teenage girls and women of childbearing age, which is really important because when you become pregnant or, you know, you're growing a life and then you go through that phase in your life, they're very key nutrients for supporting the baby's cognition, thyroid health, all sorts of things there.

And vitamin D of course, as we know, is also so important for our mental health, isn't it? Absolutely. There's now links there with our mental health, but if we do a little bit of spotlight on vitamin D, shall I just go into that now? Give us our vitamin D spotlight and why we need to not be having low vitamin D in our lives. So we'll start with the fact that Vitamin D is still relatively new in the sense of nutritional

science. When I was doing my undergrad degree, it wasn't a compulsory recommendation by the government. Oh wow, and that wasn't that long ago? No, it wasn't that long. Wow. Thanks. To me... You're so young. You look great. To me, it was a decade ago when I first started my undergrad degree. But I remember going to a nutrition conference as a student to, you know, to soak in as much as I could. And we were they were debating should this be something the government should be recommended to everybody. And then sure enough, the last year of my undergrad

course, before I went on to do my masters, it became compulsory and a recommendation by the NHS. So we knew it was coming. And then I investigated it further because I launched my own range as you know, nutrition plus of supplements. So I've looked at all forms of vitamin D, I've spent ages researching this guys and it's really, really important. First of all, food is not enough. And I think you'll see lots of people everywhere saying, just soak your mushrooms in the sun, you'll get your daily allowance of vitamin D. It's so unreliable. There's no way of measuring how much that mushroom took. You can't just eat that every single day of the week and have 45 mushrooms and hope your vitamin D levels will be enough. We live in the Northern Hemisphere and we've

had amazing weather in the UK recently. Anyone listening abroad, this is so not normal for us. Haven't we, Elo? We are basking in sunshine. We are. And the grass isn't liking it. And you can see it's turning yellow. So we are getting more than usual. But we have to remember that it's one of the only supplements in the UK that we actually recommend everybody has apart from something like Pregnancy. Now oily fish is a source, egg yolks, red meat occasionally depending on the quality and type and items like liver, which I don't think many people consume anymore, often that sort of thing. And what's so key to remember guys is even babies up to the age of one need to have this. You need about 8.5 to 10 micrograms of vitamin D a day.

to the age of one need to have this. You need about 8.5 to 10 micrograms of vitamin D a day. Now people also can get confused about the way this is written down on packets because micrograms you think would just be MCG, you know, in brackets, micrograms. But at university we were discussing it as UG and that might also be listed on the packets as UG. So it depends the word, you know, the Greek symbols often used. And if you've got a baby that's breastfed, please remember that formula is fortified already. So if you are getting over 500 mL of formula, you do not need a supplement. But if you're in that stage where your baby's kind of weaning off the milk and you're still, they're getting under 500 mL, babies need to supplement, Ella, and people don't realize.

I remember being really surprised about that when I had Skye, my first baby, that she needed vitamin D. Me too. And it's definitely why at the time I created the baby drops. I might go back into that, but life has been way too busy. But it's so, so important because the Department of Health and Social Care now in this country recommends adults and children over four as well all have 10 micrograms. And I want to also add that if you are someone listening that's housebound, if you live in a care home, if you have darker skin, for example, if you have an African or African-Caribbean heritage, South Asian background, because you've got that beautiful skin tone, you probably don't absorb as much vitamin D as someone who's pale and

pasty like me. And to be frank, that is important. And then you may need to be supplementing all year round, not just when it's winter and it's dark. And it's a misconception when the sun shines in the UK, you suddenly don't need to take it. It's amazing how quickly our levels can adjust and you can get tested via a blood test on this. And one thing I see on the shop seller, before I go on and on about vitamin D,

is that people do too high a dose. You can get too much because it's a fat soluble vitamin. It can build up in your body and 10 micrograms, unless you are deficient and your GP has told you and you've had it measured, is enough for you to be taken consistently. If you take too much over a long period of time, it can cause calcium to build up in your body and this can weaken your bones and damage your kidneys and your heart. And people don't talk about that when they talk about supplements. Well, it's like we've talked about the other day. I think supplements have this kind of aura of a magic.

Like, this is the easy way to solve my problem. I'm busy. I don't have time to cook. so I'll take a greens powder or whatever it is. But actually you don't necessarily want too much of X, Y or Z, to your point there, Reed, that actually can have negative. It's a, some supplements are complicated. But let's talk about iodine because that's the other one you picked up. Now I feel like vitamin D is something probably most people know about. You read about it, vitamin C, iron, calcium, magnesium. These feel like trendy vitamins and minerals. Whereas iodine doesn't seem like a kind of big hitter. It's not a big name, is it? Tell us about iodine.

It's not a big name and it should be. So, fun fact, a few years ago... We're not helping us be cool. I know. Fun fact. Sorry guys. Sorry. This is like your fun game Ella. This is my fun game talking about supplements and fortification. My fun in inverted commas game. So I had the pleasure of judging on you know on the TV the apprentice final in this country Lord Sugar does the apprentice and I was selected to judge, I sat around that round table in City Hall and judged the plant milk category because a girl Camilla was in the final and she had a plant milk and it wasn't a fortified product so my feedback to her was would you consider fortifying and at the time only one brand in the UK of plant milk

actually put iodine whereas now there's been such a shift and more education around the importance of this key nutrient that nearly every plant milk actually per iodine. Whereas now, there's been such a shift and more education around the importance of this key nutrient that nearly every plant milk that offers fortification will also offer iodine. The reason being it plays a crucial role in your cognition, your brains, your development of your brain, how you think and process, your thyroid health as well, which obviously regulates many factors. It's linked to your immune system as well. There's a lot of reasons iodine is a key nutrient, but the biggest crux here is that you can only get it in fish and dairy. Now, I'd hazard a guess most people in the UK don't eat as much fish as you'd think,

if any, and it's one of those taste preferences not everyone goes for. Dairy, again, I mean, what are you going to do if you're lactose intolerant? And if it is not a fortified option or you just don't ethically consume dairy. So the reason that it's such a concern is that we're actually low on intake is not high enough because we just don't consume the major two areas. And some people say, what about seaweed? I hate to break it to you, but most of the dried seaweed you buy on the shop shelves, bar a few, isn't actually seaweed. It's just dark green cabbage with added flavorings. And it's a UPF, Ella, your face, Ella. Oh, I feel like you're ruining people's day here.

I'm sorry. Do you know what? Just check the back of the packs. And you know, sometimes seaweed can be a great source. Some do, but a lot of it is just cabbage in disguise, Ella. But also seaweed can contain extraordinarily high amounts of it as well. So a little bit like you're saying with mushrooms and vitamin D, it's not necessarily the most kind of straightforward option. It's not. And then, you know, I think we also have to consider that seaweed is quite a privileged thing to even go out and buy. Like if we look at this survey as well, income Ella plays such a massive role.

Eating out is a universal thing we do. So 72% of people brought food out last week. Imagine that. Mainly fast food. So a quarter of their calories is coming from fast food because that's a cheaper, more effective way of spending your income each week to feel full and to have energy. And also we had the pushback, didn't we, on buy one, get one free is never going to be on fruit and veg still. So what are we meant to do? I know and fast food is really cheap. So really staggering. And I know we talked about this, you and I a lot kind of off mic when we were starting the show and kind of the premise that we were putting back and forth to each other. But I just feel so strongly,

and I think I feel increasingly really uncomfortable with it, which is that the world of wellness, obviously since you and I started in it back in kind of 2012 or so, didn't really exist. It was very niche. It was kind of a little dusty health food shop sort of thing. And then around sort of 2015 to 2018, it really exploded, it became this enormous industry

where obviously it's a kind of multi, multi-billion dollar industry. It's absolutely vast. It depends how you measure it. It can be up to a trillion dollar industry, depending what you include or don't include. And I just find it so uncomfortably ironic that as the world of wellness has got bigger and bigger,

and we've got more and more trends, and it's everywhere on socials and all the rest of it, people are hot girl walking and drinking matcha lattes and putting colostrum powder and things, and whatever extreme you want to look at, at the same time, our collective health is still getting worse, and I think it really has to be addressed.

I think it's very uncomfortable to sit here and say like, oh, isn't it great that everyone's talking about wellness. It's like, cool, everyone's talking about wellness, but we're not doing it. You've hit the nail on the head, Ella, because I just feel like I spent my, as you know, my career just wanting to actually get resources that are A, going to help, but B, stand up there and say to people, look, government, you have to do something. But yeah, it's all very well. Like you said, it's the food environment, Ella. It's so many other factors. It's the schools, it's the nutrition, it's the norms

of the pat lunches. It's just a cumulative thing. And wellness is almost like fashion. Do you not think that these wellness trends are like the new fashion? 100% it just feels like it's reaching, it's like an echo chamber isn't it? And it's the whole premise of the worried well and it's people becoming more and more obsessive and not reaching people who it really needs to reach. But if we're going to talk about the key points from this survey and what we can do about it, so let's talk about five a day, obviously a kind of age old message. As we said, fewer than one in five adults getting it, obviously one in 10 teenagers, which is absolutely shocking.

Rhee, let's talk about what five a day actually is. Like how do what, how do, if our listeners are going to also play another fun game, and then count their five a day, or get friends, family, colleagues to try and shift that. What are we counting? What counts towards five a day? Yeah, and it's very different to 30 plants a week, which is also something I've wanted to dispel. So five a day is about 80 grams of a fruit or vegetable, roughly. And that's quite difficult to quantify.

That's why I don't think it's a helpful message as well, Ella, sometimes, because an apple should count as one, and probably that would be over 80 grams if you put it on a scale, but it depends on the size of the apple. And, you know, does someone then have to eat too many apples to have it count as one of your five a day? That, I think, is questionable. And the difference comes in then, if you take apples as an example, and we look at the 30 plants messaging, which I really like, 30 plants is saying, well, a red apple counts as one plant, and so would a green apple because it's different. But also it all counts because if you think about 80 grams of spinach or 80 grams of rocket,

that's actually quite, it's half of almost half a bag. Like it's a lot exactly. Whereas if you think about 30 plants, what's counting as a handful of rocket, a handful of spinach, six blueberries, a small handful of almonds, like it's all going towards it, which I agree. I think if you're thinking to yourself about helpful way of thinking, how am I going to address this in my diet, my family, my colleagues, whatever it is, support people and changing it. I think trying to just sit back from it, to say like a sensible looking portion. Yeah, because most people's lunches, I always take lunches as the example of where we

fall down. I was actually asked it on another podcast I went on to discuss the book last week, said what's the one time of day or one thing that everyone's doing wrong? It's lunches, because on the go, you're not going to get one of your five a day in a sandwich. There's just not enough filling. You're not going to get it in a wrap. There's not enough filling. It's only if you physically buy a piece of fruit alongside your lunch are you likely to hit one of your five a day at lunchtime.

The only place that most people have control if you're not relying on your food environment is at home. Then the messaging isn't there with breakfast cereals. You don't get the breakfast food companies saying, pair my cereal with a fruit salad on the side or some berries or a banana. They're just saying, my cereals are enough in a bowl. It stems down to that type of messaging, I think.

And then dinners, we can go into that another time when we go into UPS. But I agree, I think dinner is such a nice meal to focus on in terms of actually trying to make a shift to your diet, because breakfast is rushed for most of us, while you're trying to get out the door to get on time to whatever you've got to do. Whereas dinner is such a nice opportunity to look after yourself to nourish yourself. And it doesn't have to be complicated. It can be a one pound wonder, it can be a tray bake, it can be like a big bean stew. And I think again, if you're thinking about how do I get more fruit and veg, more whole grains, more beans, nuts, seeds, legumes into my diet, I think what I would say is just start with what you're really comfortable with. I think pesto is such a nice example, we've used it before, but you obviously have your classic base of a pesto, but just really quickly boil up some frozen peas and edamame and pour those into your pesto mix. What a great way, obviously adds more protein as well, but it adds more fiber. It's a delicious

flavor or I love adding things like rocket pesto. Again, it adds really, really good flavor and it's so, so, so easy to do. Or the same, make a veggie stew you're really comfortable with but add a red onion as well as a normal onion at the bottom or a shallot. Add a little bit of extra garlic. Got a leftover carrot in the fridge. Chop it up. I don't know, my children don't like mushrooms, but I always use them at the base of these sorts of things. Or leeks, for example. It's such a great way to get it in. It's's not easy, but I think batch cooking, that sort of thing also really, really helps. 1000%. I think it's the only way.

So I think the sooner we get this messaging in that it will take a bit of time at the weekend. I think we have to start. A lot of us say, oh, it takes no time to cook. It does take time to cook, you know, even a five minute, 10 minute. I think if we're just honest and say we just have to put a bit of the work in for it, it's tricky Ella. Shall we move on to a quick pickup I've got before our next headline? Yes, I didn't see this going to the script. I know nothing guys. Tell me, Rhi, because this is very interesting.

Do you know, I only wanted to raise it because we spoke about Botox and how a smile is more effective. And I think Botox in itself has almost become the norm. It's like a norm in a woman, and as we discovered, men's journey nowadays. It was actually a headline in the BBC that came out on Saturdays, so a few days before we're recording this episode today. In the northeast of England, 28 people were hospitalized, Ella, after fatal botulism, or potentially fatal botulism, after receiving fake or illegal anti-wrinkle injections posing as Botox?

Yes, I saw the headline as well. It must have been from the same report saying that people have been given it in bathrooms. To imagine. I mean, it's absolutely terrifying because the authorities, including the MHRA and local health teams, are basically investigating now this illegal supply chain. But this is everywhere. It's a really risky market because it's booming so much and it's becoming the norm and people think, oh, there's no harm, there's no risk, it's just a simple little jab in your face. I think just to remind our listeners, if you're going to get this done,

credible sources are needed. Yeah, and no judgment any which way, but equally to your point, Rhi, it's just, yeah, knowledge is power and remembering your smile is officially more effective at making you look attractive. It's quite nice to know. This next headline, it actually just quite made me laugh. It really stems, do you remember a few years ago? I think it was really when we were seeing this rise of alternative proteins, when meat mimics were huge and everyone was talking about the Impossible Burger, you know, the veggie burger that bleeds, which I still find really weird because does anyone like the fact that the bleeding

part of a burger, like I don't know anyone who has their favorite bit. Anyway, at the same time, people started putting together the dots between the food industry, which is one of the largest polluters in the world, and climate change. As climate change became more and more relevant, it felt like we were talking about this huge impact that the food industry has on the environment, hence the rise of vegan and alternative proteins. In that, people kept putting forward bug protein. I remember being sent... I used to get so many PR samples and packages and things. Yeah, I think read the same. And oh, goodness me, I got sent a lot

of bug protein things. It never called to me personally. I know it's silly, but I always found the idea quite gross. Anyway, turns out probably a good thing that it didn't necessarily catch on or hasn't yet because as it stands, it's not so good. The headline in the Sunday Times ran, hold the insect burger, eating bugs is bad for the climate. Which I find really fascinating because like you, I went through this. I even did TV interviews about this Ella. Did you?

About insect protein. Yep, I was being asked about insect protein. All I could say was, yes, it's a good source of protein because they would be, but you'd have to eat so many of them to get X amount and it's very new. We haven't done this before. I personally also couldn't even try one. I know that in some cultures around the world, it's a delicacy. I don't want to be disrespectful to anyone that consumes insects, if that's your thing. I really couldn't get my head around it. I couldn't either. I couldn't try it. It's definitely not my thing. But yeah, so in this research, they were looking at the black soldier fly larvae, which was touted as one of the most

promising plant proteins. But basically, the report was factoring in the entire production process, especially the energy that was used in both processing the protein and transporting it. And actually the environmental cost was so much higher than expected. And even when the larvae were fed on food waste, which obviously in theory would make it more sustainable, the climate impact was still six times higher than using soy. So obviously tofu really, which we're talking about here, or tempeh, but tofu is obviously more popular. And as we talked about last week, tofu is really good for your health. But it was also almost double that of fish,

which is unexpected. Yeah, but I also think the issue is also what insects do for the planet. Like they have a job to do. And I was thinking about this. I was watching, you know, the bees in the garden at home and all that kind of stuff and the ants and I read some weird stat in my son's book about ants and how amazing they are and how they're the healers of the garden or something. And I was reading it to him out loud and I was, it makes me think about that. And to farm insects at scale at such an intensive

process. So despite it being, yes, it's a source of protein, why do we have to go there when there's so many other options now and they have to be sterilized or I don't know if it's baking but it boiled and dried and crushed into powders Ella. I find that really difficult to, you know what I'm like, everybody listening probably knows now. So, where we're told insects are, you know, green, the full life cycle, I think, of that insect, how's the difference? And if you take an insect out of its ecosystem, we're losing part of it. What are we replacing to help the job that insect does in the circle of life? And I think interestingly, we were saying, obviously, to your point there, really, like, when you've got such good alternatives, like soy in that sense, it being six times more

efficient from an environmental perspective, they were looking at then again, how do we then compare it to things like beef, pork, chicken. Insects do have a lower carbon footprint than beef or pork, but essentially the same as chicken per gram of protein. So the article said, which I don't know, maybe it's just really immature and it's not funny at all, but it said, unless we actively prefer cricket kebabs and mealworm dishes, there's no compelling reason to introduce them into our food system. Basically, unless you prefer cricket kebab to roast chicken, I think it's also quite freeing, right?

Because there is so much pressure on you should eat this, you shouldn't eat that, you should feel bad about this, you shouldn't feel bad about that. And I think it's sometimes nice knowing actually, as it stands, you don't need to eat a cricket bar. That's why I saw lots of cricket energy bars and things like that. We would go to conferences and there'd be displays of these new products and it was one of those predictions of trends that never happened, you know, of the future. And there were companies doing that, creating it. Remember them being at Food Matters one year and all these sorts of things.

Guys, you can get that amount of protein on a plant-based diet. It just seems very counterintuitive when we have a more sustainable way of producing food that we can then replant afterwards. You can't just replant an insect. Its whole chain has gone. Equally, just to add as well in terms of the sustainability aspect, when you're looking at fibre, like I don't think insects provide that amount of fibre compared to eating pulses and beans as well.

So I'm glad that this has been kind of debunked. I'm happy that we can say that might not be the future of the planet. Yeah, no. And as you said, for the 90 plus percent of people in the UK who don't eat enough fiber, if you're going to do something more environmentally conscious, adding in beans, for example, you're getting both plant protein. Obviously, that's really positive for the environment if you're making that swap. But you're also getting the fiber, which we all collectively really, really need more of. So it just feels like a bit more of a win-win potentially,

and also an easier swap is popping lentils into a soup, for example, or into a bolognese, or into a stew. It's really quite easy. Or tofu into a curry, those sorts of things. You know, chuck a can of chickpeas into just about everything, basically. I love that. Far more straightforward, far more delicious in my opinion. I'd love a smoky bean chili any day over a cricket bar. Crunchy. Oh, don't, don't. OK, the next headline is weird.

First of all, anybody listening, if you've tried insects, can you let us know in the comments? I would genuinely love to know, even if you had a really positive or a negative experience. OK, Ella, the weird headline next is just very black mirror, like you said. Yeah, we love to look at all the papers and magazines every week and see what are people talking about in wellness, what's coming out, what new study has come or new tech or what's relevant. And we try and pick the things that we obviously think are interesting and we

want to talk about the things that are curious for us all to. And whilst we're curious about obviously things like the state of the nation's health, it's also things like what is the future going to look like? And obviously the world is changing so quickly at the moment with tech and AI and all the rest of it. And this was mind boggling. Obviously stress is a massive, massive issue. We're going to come on to stress in a bit more detail in our trends section when we're looking at cortisol. So not to do a spoiler, but there was a report that's looking out for in the Mental Health Foundation,

and it was looking at research from the UK from the last year. And 74% of people in the UK have felt so stressed, they've been overwhelmed or unable to cope. And 51% of adults who felt stressed reported feeling depressed. 61% said they felt anxious. Stress is a really prevalent problem in the world today. And a lot of it is linked to our work. And so this was interesting to me.

The headline here was, e-tattoo could track mental workload for people in high-stake jobs. And this was in The Guardian, and it feels like we might be entering some kind of Black Mirror era. I know, but one that's backed by science, because researchers at the University of Texas called this ultra-thin, flexible device, Ella, they're basically calling it the eTattoo, and it's designed to help people. So it basically uses a brainwave and eye movement data to monitor how mentally overloaded you are. And I can't get my head around it. The idea is to create a kind of live mental workload decoder that can give you a gentle warning

when your brain's reaching its limit so you can adjust before you make a mistake. I mean, how is this helpful? What about if you're a performer on stage or you're delivering a talk at work and your mental load is going boom, boom, boom, boom, boom? You can't just stop in the middle of the performance and say, hey guys, I'm having a bit of a mental overload now. I'm going to just take a minute. Yeah, it's so true.

I mean, because they were talking about it in the context of very high stress environments, healthcare workers, pilots they mentioned. What if you're a surgeon in an operation and then it goes off boom boom? I feel like it's more relevant in a way almost within an office environment where you can potentially stop and readjust versus as you said you're halfway through like a heart transplant. Anyway I'm not an expert on that and whether or not you can, how much of a break you can take. But I just thought it was really interesting that obviously wearable tech is huge. That over half of adults in the UK are wearing wearable tech.

There's more and more coming out all the time. I feel like everywhere I look, I see someone wearing a whoop and aura ring, whatever it is. I always stop people and ask them like, how do you find that? Because I'm fun. But anyway, and I just was curious if this is the next bit of wearable tech, something that is tracking your brain to tell you, okay, you have too much stress, you need to stop. I think it might be.

I do think there's going to be a real big trend for brain everything. I'm predicting brain food for, you know, me and my industry, everything, maybe 2027, 2028. You think that's the next big trend? Because I feel like we've just had gut health as our big, big trend, like a big macro wellness trend. Yeah, I think next year was still fiber. Year after Ella, just going to predict, throw it out there. It might be brains. But what's interesting here is they did test using a memory challenge. And this really interests me because I'd love to have a better memory.

And they said, where letters flashed up on a screen and participants had to spot repeats. So as the task got harder, Ella, that the device picked up the changes in the brain activity. How interesting. And then they fed all that data into a machine learning algorithm. And then it could predict how overloaded someone was just from the brain signals. So our memory must, it must be so exhausting to recall a memory, but we just don't think about it.

Yeah. And I think stress is certainly for me, like if I think about four pillars of health, nutrition, sleep, stress, exercise, I feel like stress is the one that's really intangible for some of us sometimes when we are actually so overwhelmed and we're so stressed and we start to see it come out in our health, in you know whether that's hair loss, whether that's like poor sleep, whether that's irritability, anxiety, we start to see it. How often we get poorly or run down and more susceptible. But we don't necessarily have a handle on like that's making me feel stressed,

that's making me feel worried and so I don't necessarily have a handle on like that's making me feel stressed. That's making me feel worried. And so I don't know. How much does it cost Stella? Can you tell me how much it costs? What they were saying was less than $200. So it's very much in line with I think a lot of other wearable tech. But I was imagining coming into the office and seeing everyone like strapped up. With their like head plaster. Yeah, that's Black Mirror. I think it's very interesting, your prediction, and I would second it, that brain health, if we're on gut health at the moment, but to the point, it's not working. We're all talking about gut health, or I feel we are, you see big brands like M&S talking

about it. It feels like it's part of a public discourse in terms of being picked up across the board, brands, shops, campaigns, people, podcasts, shows, etc. But it's not working because over 90% of us aren't getting our fibre. So we're chatting, but we're not helping people do it. We're not. I think I need to do a new project on that. I think we need to, we'll have a think guys, maybe in our sub-stat we can do a bit more as well about fibre. But it's also not helped. And I do read all the comments and reviews and I saw a few when we did our protein episode, it's almost very divisive because you see people saying, oh, why are you saying that

we don't need to talk about this? It's because guys we are, there's no national diet and nutrition survey saying we're deficient in protein. It's just not a thing. That's such a great point, Rui. And I totally agree. And we don't want to be sitting here like on some high horse, saying we're perfect, do it like us guys, because we're so imperfect. Or I am so imperfect, I don't want to say that about you. I'm sat here with an eye infection wearing glasses. I caught conjunctivitis off Theodore last week. So yeah, no.

Imperfect. And we don't get it right every day. And it's definitely like the whole premise isn't like, oh, emulate what we do every day or what we eat every day. But it's just trying to break down the kind of general consensus of health. And I think it is really interesting that people don't really want to hear sometimes, like actually, you don't

necessarily need to do that. There might be an aesthetic goal that you have that eating that much protein aligns with and that's okay. It is okay. But it's almost acknowledging it for what it is as opposed to being like for my health, I must eat this much protein. Because the data isn't there to show that versus what you need when it comes to fibre, what we're lacking. And to your point that we've just had this enormous national survey that shows how deeply deficient we are in some things. And it's not telling us that we're deficient in protein. But it makes me sad because I know I said it and I do value

everybody's feedback. And that's why I want to discuss it. And I know for menopausal women, and as we age, we need a bit more protein. I'm not disputing that as an issue. I'm just saying that there's a big commercial game when you use the word protein, be it on a chocolate bar, be it on a biscuit, be it on a book, be it on a TV show. Anywhere you look, it just seems to be such a hot topic and it's detracting from what we actually should be discussing. I'm going to move on from it, Ellen. Should we do our trend in wellness? Because I feel like it links to stress. Yes, it's a very nice segue if we move into what's trending in wellness today.

Okay, so today's topic, I think we have been wanting to talk about for a little while, and it's cortisol cocktails. I know, and before we get into it, I saw an article on Sunday again in the BBC. I was on the BBC website this weekend, Ella, just checking out things in this country because I don't always go there.

And we're ahead of the curve, Ella, because we've had this in our brief, to give you guys an idea. We had it for the live show. We were going to bring this trend up, but we knew of time, we could just talk forever on it. So we thought, nope, we'll save it for our weekly episode. Then everyone gets to hear it as well. And sure enough, it came

out in the BBC and it said, stop telling me to lower my cortisol, it's making me stressed. And that was the headline, Ella. I love that though, because I think it's so true. It's like, life is busy, we do our best, we try and have active stress managers in there, but stop telling me to do it because it is quite stressful. It's so stressful when someone says to you, you know, when you feel overwhelmed, they're like, oh, you just need to have some time out.

And I'm like, yeah, I know that right now, but it's just not an option. So cortisol does feel as a word, it is absolutely everywhere. People are talking about lowering cortisol. I mean, I was seeing some completely mad stuff about cortisol cocktails in particular on my algorithm that was like, I'm drinking a cortisol cocktail and it's literally, we'll come onto it in a minute, but, and I've lost 20 pounds.

No, this is madness. But before we go into all of that, Rhee, tell us what actually is cortisol? Let's have a 101 on this big stress hormone. Yeah, it's produced by the adrenal glands. Now, whenever I give talks to nutrition, I kind of hold my fingers in two little circles and I put them on the back of my kidneys. So on your lower back, where your kidneys kind of sit just above that are your adrenal glands, and they play a central role in how we respond to stress. But that in turn obviously links to your metabolism, your blood sugar, your immunity, inflammation, how we sleep. It gets a bad rep, Ella. I think most people just think cortisol, enemy, bad for us, but actually we do need it and

it's got a natural function. It's all about balance ideally and cortisol peaks in the morning because we need to wake up without that hormone helping us. It's part of our circadian rhythm. It's part of our innate ability to survive. I'm sure lots of you have heard of the same analogy, but running in the wild, if a tiger suddenly appeared in front of you and you needed to run fast, cortisol kicks in and it helps you run fast. The hormone has a complete place. But when it happens every day, Dr Patrick Brady, my psychology lecturer at university, used to use this analogy all the

time. He said, you're sat in the classroom right now, and if all you can hear outside is people beeping their horns in traffic and it doesn't stop, that would make you stressed. If you're on your way to work and you're stuck in traffic and you're running late, that spikes your cortisol. You have no control over it. It's just something that happens. And when it builds up every day, it doesn't become acute. It becomes chronic, which means it's forever. You know, it constantly happens.

And when it stays elevated at a certain level, that's when we as human beings see problems with our health. You know, we feel more tired. We don't sleep well, we really experience anxiety. It has been linked to weight gain, which is where I think this particular trend has come from. And high blood pressure, heart disease, even cancer. I mean, my big worry with stress, Ella, is increased risks of things like cancers. I feel like stress is so out of our control. That's definitely my concern for sure. And I think the other one that always interests

me is that too much cortisol for too long also causes nutrient depletion. And I think it's this idea we were saying a second ago, if you think about the four different pillars of health, nutrition, exercise, sleep, stress, how interlinked they are. Like you can eat all the broccoli and lentils and what almonds you want, but if you're chronically stressed, then ultimately this can only do so much. And that's why unfortunately they all do go so hand in hand. And I think that's really interesting and it can lead to deficiencies in things like magnesium, omega-3 fatty acids, B vitamins. And those are so important for mood, energy, nervous system support, which is why when we're so depleted for a long time, we feel it both mentally and physically,

which is really interesting. Of course you do. Your muscles will ache. It takes a big toll on your body because you then need to use those nutrients elsewhere. So it's like a depletion, it completely draws it up. And even the gut health imbalance, Ella, so if we discuss the fact, our gut and brain are so deeply connected that when one's off, the other will imbalance, Ella. So if we discuss the fact, you know, our gut and brain are so deeply connected that when one's off, the other will feel it too. So the microbiome, the living bacteria, they have their own circadian rhythms. And if we're disrupting that with our level of stress and how we're sleeping and the interaction between the increased level of anxiety or nervousness that we constantly feel, that's

when we draw blood flow away from the stomach. That impacts our digestion, our blood sugar balance. The crashes become very extreme when you're stressed. You really are very sensitive to those highs from when you consume food and it impacts our hormone insulin. Our body, I described this in the nutrition clinic, is like a wheel of lots of different cogs and when one falls out of place, the wheel's broken and it has a knock-on effect on everything. I'd say for me, Ella, it's, you know, when you have a massage, like you're lucky enough to get a massage in life

and you really feel things that ache that you didn't know would ache. It's the, not just the physical load, which of course plays a role. It is the fight or flight response. It's the just the physical load, which of course plays a role. It is the fight or flight response. It's the tension in our muscles that we create as a natural survival mechanism. Jaw clenching. I hear my kids grinding their teeth in the night and it's so loud.

I can almost hear it in the next room. And I think they process things by grinding their jaw. And I think we still do that as adults. It's something that stays with us. We become very tense. Do you find that? Oh my gosh. So dense.

Yeah. Building a business is so, so stressful and building it through COVID, lockdowns, hyperinflation, oh my gosh, grief, everything that we've done. I mean, it was amazing experience, but the level of stress that we both felt was so extraordinary. I mean, Matt didn't sleep last year. I reckon he was sleeping four hours a night. He just couldn't sleep. Yeah. And it had become really chronic. Hence why I became so conscious of it. But I think it is really important, but then equally to your point, which is that cortisol is really important and it's not inherently bad. And

I think again, because it's everywhere at the moment, there is this feeling that like we should eliminate all cortisol and it's actually just we want a more even balance and to not have excessive cortisol all the time. And that's not also to say that obviously like when you're trying to get to work and your train is cancelled or you get something like that happens, like you are going to feel that sense of stress. And that's fine. But then you let that stress go. It's when

you're living with that all day, every day, and that constant chronic stress where you feel suffocated, that's when you start to have issues with your cortisol. So don't panic that you're like, suddenly have 10 minutes of stress because yeah, these normal things happen and you're going to miss a big meeting or you know, whatever it is. And it's linked to our own mental resilience, which is a psychological factor that's out of our control depending on how we're raised biologically, our genes. I think there's so much to be said for our individual predisposition to stress as well. Because you've got some stats here, Ella, that you wrote down from the Mental Health Foundation as well in the past year.

Exactly. The ones we were talking about a second ago was just that 74% of people felt so stressed they'd been overwhelmed or unable to cope in the last year. So if that's you, you're obviously unfortunately in good company. Like this is so normal. And I think just as much as we've got to go on top of our diets as a country, you've got to get more tooled up with things that will naturally help support our stress. One thing I did think was interesting was, particularly for the wellness group, was 46% of people said they ate too much or they ate unhealthily due to stress. I am a stress eater, so I really, really nod along to that.

And 36% of women said their stress was linked to how they felt about their appearance. So that's, you know, it's over a third of us feeling stressed because of how we look. So basically, I think that's just suffice to say, like, it's not surprising that we're then drawn to these quick fixes, particularly when people say, oh, drinking a cortisol cocktail helped me lose 20 pounds. And so if you have seen people talking about cortisol cocktails, not to spoil it, it's absurd. It's literally a drink that's made of orange juice, coconut water and sea salt, and then sometimes has things like ginger or cream of tartar added to it. Other people call it an adrenal cocktail.

It's just a cocktail. I mean, it's just a drink. Yeah, a mocktail. So we break down those ingredients for us. But you know, guys, this is just a, it's just like a tasty mocktail. If anything, it would give certain people on the internet a real like glucose spike chaotic meltdown. Because if you just break down the ingredients, okay, you've got vitamin C from orange juice, potassium from coconut water, which is good,

we do need potassium water, sodium from the salt, I would argue some people don't need extra salt. So yeah, it can offer some basic hydration, but there's no scientific evidence guys, of course, that it rebalances your hormones, or meaningfully lowers cortisol levels. Yeah, I think as we were saying, it's so normal. And I have been there so many times. I was there in abundance last year of wanting quick fixes to stress. And I think the good news is there are things that are proven, like then there's a huge amount of evidence around in terms of naturally lowering cortisol

and better managing stress. And those are unfortunately just the basics. Number one, move your body regularly, like moderate exercise, walking, yoga in particular, there's a lot of data on, I know I'm back on my yoga band work at the moment, or swimming can help lower cortisol, which is amazing. Deep breathing or meditation, again, there's a lot of research on those. And even just five to 10 minutes, really, really short, that can make a huge difference to cortisol levels and supporting your nervous system. Good sleep, poor sleep in itself can raise cortisol, as we were saying, that interlinking of all the different pillars

of health. Eating a balanced diet, again, really supports cortisol. Again, it's the boring stuff, guys. It is, yeah. And as well, staying connected. We always talk about this. It's so easy to hyper-focus and spotlight broccoli when it comes to health. But actually, as we always say, that connection with people,

spending time with your loved ones, one of the best ways to naturally lower your cortisol, and making time for hobbies. Doing things that you really love. time with your loved ones, one of the best ways to naturally lower your cortisol, and making time for hobbies. Doing things that you really love, maybe that's drawing, maybe that's painting, maybe that's reading, all of these things, again, really, really, really proven, and again, like evidence-based to support your cortisol and your stress levels. So it's really easy to want to make a drink because that takes two sacks, and I so get

it. But ultimately, these things just investing in de-stressors and making time to move your body to look after yourself to spend time with the people you love, that really does make a big, big difference and stressors. We do need to manage it better as a collective. Yeah, I think the hobbies for me were really helpful. But remember, with 67% of Gen Z and millennials on TikTok following nutrition trends, guys, and only 2.1% of the advice

potentially accurate, we just have to have our detective hats on. But I mean, how much more effective is it to say, drink this drink and it will solve all your problems than, hey, guys, make sure you have a balanced diet today, try and go to bed half an hour earlier, call your mom on the way to work. It's just not very click-baity or catchy, is it? I know. I wish things could be different in today's world and it just seems to be the way it pans out. I think everybody, because I was going to move on now into common foods that act like drugs, but I think we'll move it to next week because otherwise I don't think we'll have time for our listener question today. What do you think?

I agree with you because I actually think it taps into a little bit about the supplements thing earlier, but third ingredients like Brazil, that's really interesting in terms of the impact. So let's move that to next week so we can give it proper time and attention and take our listener question this week. Yeah, our listener question was basically about what type of fat should I be cooking with? And Dan had read this article that basically everybody's been talking about AI, but ghee has become, Ella, this is your area really, but apparently ghee is a 16 billion industry in the US.

Wow. The butter and ghee market is projected to grow from 16.4 billion in 2024 to 57 billion by 2033 Ella, what do you think about that? According to what I'm looking at now the global ghee market is significantly larger with a 2024 value of 55.8 billion and a projected value of 94.44 billion by 2033, according to one market report. So, ghee is massive business. Obviously, origins are in India with Indian cooking, but it's really taking off. And I think the interesting question is basically, what should we be cooking with? Give us a quick overview. Yeah, no, 100%. I think, look, we have to remember that when it comes to, I'm going to call it a heritage food because it's such a staple to some people's diets and that's something that we can't take away from,

but it is very high in the fat we don't want, saturated fat. So while it's a staple in most cuisines and Indian cooking, I think we have to really remember that these things should be used in moderation and it's still probably better for you to cook with more unsaturated fats like olive oil, rapeseed oil, dare I say it, and get a load of controversy. We're gonna get some comments about rapeseed oil.

We do still need to do an extra scoop specifically, I think, just on oils and fats. But ghee is in the same category. I would put it in the same category as butter. Coconut oil is also in that category there. Saturated fats, yes they contain certain nutrients because fats do contain nutrition, but it doesn't warrant you consuming it above a small amount I'd say daily. So as a day to day option you are better sticking with your oils because of the unsaturated

fats? 100% and I can see why Dan was really confused when he sent this over. He was just, I think the figures are just astounding, but we have to remember that I would say this is an example of where cultural heritage food is seen as a wisdom food. Does that make sense? For sure. I mean, like beef tallow taking over there as well. I think it's also linking into this seed oil debate and everyone's like, oh, should we use oils anymore? And really returning to yeah, ghee, butter, beef tallow, all of the rest of it. Because it's prized in our Aveda as well. We have to remember that there's some beliefs and cultures and backgrounds around the world that use

these ingredients. So we're not dismissing that, but I cannot take away the science that it's a saturated fat and it's not good for your heart health. And if you have poor heart health, definitely don't consume a lot of it. But also, again, when we're looking at obviously broad brush here, but different cultures, the way that we unfortunately eating the worst is generally speaking, as we've seen, lower in fiber and higher in ultra processed food and ingredients that contain other bits of saturated fat. So if what you're doing is a huge amount of home cooking packed with lentils and vegetables and fiber-filled foods, and then you're using a bit of ghee to cook it in, your balance of saturated fat is going to be very, very different. Whereas if you're cooking a lot of

meat and you're cooking it in your saturated fats, in your ghee, your butter, your beef tallow, et cetera, then you're really increasing it. So I think it's also like any food, it's looking at it in the context of what else you're eating. And I think we always have to come back to that. A thousand percent, Ella. I think that's a really nice way, it's some practical advice to leave you all with for cooking at home. because I know that's really confusing for everybody. I feel like it's been a very meaty episode again, we've had a lot to discuss. It has, but as always it comes back to focus on your basics guys, you've got your four pillars, think about your sleep, think about your stress,

think about your diet, think about your exercise, none of it needs to be complicated. It's a can of chickpeas here, a walk on your lunch break there, half an hour earlier to bed, and something that makes you feel unstressed. Another fun game for the week. Try it all every day. Another fun game, Ella. Everybody, thank you so, so much for listening

and tuning in. Sharing the podcast is honestly making the biggest difference. We are beyond grateful. And keep your feedback coming on those because I can see it very clearly on Spotify and Apple and then we can get these questions into the episodes and we might even do an extra scoop just of listener questions so get them in. Yes please leave them we're going to look at doing that maybe next week even so just

chuck them all in after this week's episode we so appreciate it have a great day guys thanks for being here as we said we love it. Bye!