The Wellness Scoop - The Oat Milk Backlash, Glucose Spikes & UPF Lawsuits

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

Is oat milk really bad for you? This week, we dive into the oat milk backlash—why sales are dropping, whether it actually spikes blood sugar, and if it's as unhealthy as some claim. We also break down the glucose monitor trend. More and more people without diabetes are tracking their blood sugar—but is it helpful or just another wellness obsession? Plus, could ultra-processed food (UPF) companies be sued like Big Tobacco? Legal experts are investigating whether food manufacturers knowingly made their products addictive. And finally, a shocking study found microplastics in human brains. Should we be worried, or is this just another scary headline? Recommendations This Week: Pre-order Rhiannon's new book The Unprocessed Plate Apple Cider Vinegar (Netflix) – The shocking Belle Gibson scam story Amandaland (BBC) – A must-watch for Motherland fans Belly Bugs by David Bell – A fun gut health book for kids Daily Affirmations & Self-Love Mantra Meditation on the Deliciously Ella app Join us as we cut through the noise, break down the trends, and bring you real, practical advice on what’s worth your time, money, and health! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to the Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And we are your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhianna Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. And that's why we created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal. So thanks for tuning in, guys. I hope you're feeling well. Can I just say last week we were talking about the hot girl walk. Yes. And so many of you have sent us pictures of you on your hot or as you said, cold girl. I saw that. That was brilliant. It's freezing.

Yeah, exactly. If you're in the Northern Hemisphere, it's not really so hot these days. But they are amazing. They've literally been making me smile so much, making me so happy. So thank you for sending those in. And also we had our first 5pm sunset of the year. Yeah, I did look out the window the other day. That must have been it. And I thought, oh, it's actually quite light. I know. Good times are coming. They are. In fact, I think I read it's only something like, I can't remember, not many, you know,

not many weeks until we actually go above 10 degrees. Woohoo! Just a couple of weeks till spring. So good stuff is in the air. And thank you guys as well for your input on our name for the expert-led bonus scoop each week. Exactly. And you sent so many ideas,

which I thought were great as well, but after we'd done the polls. So some of you said the secret scoop. I mean, that's quite cool. The double scoop, I get your play there, maybe on ice cream. The bite-sized scoop, the small scoop. There were just so many and they keep on coming,

so we love the input. But you guys were completely unanimous almost in your winner, which was the extra scoop. That was a whopping 60% of votes. So thank you guys so much for doing that. And just to remind you what it's going to be is that we know that you're hearing about topics all the time, be that ultra processed food, be that 30 plants a week, be that what fiber actually is, how to be happy, what's going on with your hormones and seed cycling, for example,

these topics that are floating all around us in our culture, in the workplace, in the media. We want to give you short, expert-led, 15 to 20 minute overviews so you just feel really empowered and informed as to what everyone's talking about. So keep an eye out. Exactly. So those are coming very, very soon. So Ella, before we get to big announcements, because there's just so much to say this week. This is a big week. It's a really big week. So what have we got coming up on today's show? Okay, we're going to be talking about the Netflix sensation, Apple Cider Vinegar. I think lots of you have watched that already from what I've seen in my DMs. What's happening to meat mimics in the plant-based category? Microplastics in human brains, should we be worried? It sounds

worrying. Food waste, whether companies are going to face legal action over the addictive nature of UPFs, glucose spikes, blood sugar and glucose monitors, the rise and fall of oat milk and a bit more on protein. So we are, we're trying to squeeze a lot into an hour is what we're actually doing here. Okay, so Rhi, before we go into what you've been up to this week, I think you've got something big to share with us. Oh gosh, I didn't know how you were going to bring it up because I've been so nervous about this for weeks. I even wrote in the show notes today, Ella need help on how to say this because it's really anxiety provoking. But we have had so many questions haven't we on ultra processed foods and I think ever since Dr Chris Van Tulleken released his book must be a

few years ago now that came out ultra processed people it's just been huge but I have been working hard for over a year behind the scenes to create another encyclopedia of nutrition and a recipe book called The Unprocessed Plate. So this is a book that I can't believe I'm actually saying this out loud. This is the first time. So Ella, Wellness Scoop always get the exclusive. This book is out in June. You can pre-order it now. And I think following the success of the Science of Nutrition books, which were encyclopedias of nutrition, I want books that aren't just so text heavy about the subject, because it's so overwhelming. There's so many scientific words. It goes into how to decode the

language, figure out the relationship with food. What even is ultra processed foods? What's an emulsifier? What's an additive? What should we be aware of, what's the situation in the world, the environment. And then in the middle of the book, alongside these amazing illustrations. So working with DK as a publisher is so fun for me as a nutritionist, because I mean, my first ever CD-ROM as a kid was a DK encyclopedia CD-ROM, along with the wizard hat. And they provide amazing resources. So the illustrations and the graphics that we've put into this have taken so much time, and I really hope you will appreciate them. So chapter one is like your nutrition guide. Chapter two is how you input that into your daily life. How to even write a shopping list practically, how to save money, how can you build

a balance plate, how can you actually avoid ultra processed foods on the go and then there's 60 recipes at the back which as you know unlike Ella I'm not the best cook in the world but what I do as a mom and a nutritionist is things that I know are quick and easy and simple and will make sure you don't reach for those other items that contain ultra processed foods and additives and ingredients so it's out in Ella. I could waffle on about it for ages, but we know there's a problem because 60% of our diets as adults are ultra processed foods now in the world. And this number is higher for children. Can you believe when I was looking in nearly every country that has a problem with obesity, metabolic diseases, the rates of ultra processed food

consumption are higher and they're higher for our children than they are the adults so children are having up to 70 percent of ultra-processed foods within their diet i know and just to clarify that that's 70 percent of everything they eat being ultra-processed and if i'm right one of the things that is particularly concerning to me is that actually when it comes to adults we're number two in terms of the biggest population that consumes ultra processed foods. America is number one, but we are a whisper of them. But when it comes to our kids, we're number one. It is really terrifying. And I think what you're doing and trying to decode it for people is brilliant. Oh, thanks Ella. But what you've just shared is true for everybody listening. I think everyone's really confused. And also, what are the actual scientific linked health outcomes,

which I obviously go into in the book? You know, is there a link with cancer? What if I'm giving my children this high level of ultra processed foods? What are the future health outcomes? So research is emerging, but I won't spoil it all for you, because the book will be a complete guide. But what I hope is that it's going to help everyone make a change, but equally not be scared. And I think my big emphasis is education is power. And the more you know, the more you can make a decision, I think. But every pre-order means so much. So if you want to hit pre-order, that would be amazing. Is there anything that really surprised you in your research about UPFs? Something you didn't maybe know the extent to which it was the truth beforehand? Yeah, absolutely.

I think it was the impact on behavior with additives, actually. And the fact that the information is there in plain sight, that it's linked to poor behavior, especially for children, some of the numbers that we can add into the diet. But yet it's not really spoken commonly about. What do you mean by poor behavior? Hyperactivity and things like that, looking into the links between it and looking at the literature. But what I did find also interesting was how incredibly intelligent the people are that created emulsifiers in the first place. You know, these scientific formulas to create ice cream that doesn't melt and all these crazy things is absolutely mind boggling.

But I think the biggest take home was that there are links with the amount of consumption that we're probably having in this country with poor health. And I just thought, why on earth are we sugarcoating it? We need to be telling people about it in a nice, fair way. You know, we've all got our own situations in life. I know it's interesting. You and I have spoken a lot about this personally, but it's to your point I have spoken a lot about this personally but it's to your point why are we sugarcoating it and I think we've both had our own experiences of trying to be quite outspoken about the need to change our collective diet and it's hit with a lot of backlash I mean we have both been kind of trolled quite extremely. Should we share? Yeah tell us a bit about that for you. So I gave a talk I remember so clearly it was It was to Stobarts, the travel company, and the guys that have to drive these lorries, you know, long distances.

And I filmed a bit of the talk. And in that talk, I said, this is back in 2016, I said, just try and stay clear of the processed foods. Okay, I didn't say ultra processed, but I said, I'd rather you, instead of buying a processed sandwich, just cook one for your journey. And I was just trying to give some really practical, easy, accessible advice. And some other health professionals in my field at the time, they're not as prominent today, messaged me saying, I can't believe you just said processed foods in your talk, a can of chickpeas is processed. And I replied saying, well, there's a notable difference between a can of chickpeas and a packet of crisps, a Mars bar and a, you know, ham and cheese sandwich from the garage, you know. But then that began and I'd say a sort of

bullying that I experienced in my industry with people not liking what I was saying. It's at the time when the intuitive eating movement rose, which I think is a great movement. We still use it in clinic intuitive eating. It's great for certain situations. But it was almost like I was trying to be taken down because I dared even say that processed foods were potentially harmful for your health. And that's where it began for me. I mean, I know, Ella, you had a similar situation around those years. Really similar. And I always said, I think if what I had done is come on and said, I'm here to teach you how to make like a double chocolate triple chocolate even chocolate cake I don't think I would have had a word of criticism but yes similar time 2016 2017 it was a deeply heavy-handed

exceptionally personal quite misogynistic very vitriolic kind of just extraordinarily unpleasant opinion on it was completely wrong to share all these recipes about healthy eating and it's always boggled my mind and if I if I was going to do it again where I sit today a little bit older hopefully a little bit wiser but definitely a bit more experienced and certainly a lot more confident I definitely would have tackled it really differently which is to point out the absolute obvious which is that our collective diet is appalling and must change. And there's no two ways around it. And to your point, it's not about being scared of food.

We just both had a sweet matcha latte with oatmeal, which definitely will have some additives in that oatmeal. That's fine. But it's the balance that we have so fundamentally wrong in this country and in most of the Western world, whereas you're saying like 60 plus percent of calories come from ultra processed food quarter of us get our five a day like we have to swap that around and there's no way to swap that around unless we're pretty vocal about the fact there is a problem with the fact so many of our calories come from that food it's not the individual's fault as we've talked about it's a really difficult environment to exist in the food landscape is difficult to navigate We've all thought this stuff was normal and just part of our diet. We're only recently waking up to the fact that it's not and we've

got to change it. It's overwhelming. People are busy. There's a massive mental load. It's not to say it's simple. It's not to say it's all on the individual. But it is to say we have to change it and we have to feel confident to stand up and say that. So anyway, I'm thrilled about the book and couldn't be more excited. Thanks Ella. Tell us finally, because I'm hoping you obviously will go and pre-order the book, but Ella's had big news this week. Yes. So we, last year when we did the partnership with Delicious Yellow and the Hero Group, which was one of the best decisions we've ever made,

and it's brilliant and Delicious Yellow's thriving and I'm so thrilled, Matt and I bought the Plants Group, which was a small startup essentially out during that acquisition. And five of our Delicious Yellow colleagues came to work at Plants with us. And we kept looking at the plant-based category in supermarkets and thinking this doesn't really make any sense to us. You know, just like we were saying plant-based should be really synonymous with healthy eating, but actually it's been completely taken over by ultra-processed food. And actually, in most, not all of them, but in lots of the major retailers, up to 75% of the plant-based category is just ultra-processed food.

And by that, I don't mean one ingredient or two ingredients. I mean, they're the meat mimics, and they are fundamentally very far removed from natural food. And I'm not saying there's no place for that, as we were saying a minute ago, but the proportion in our mind is wrong. And also, interestingly, it's just not what shoppers want. And they're leaving the category in droves, essentially. And so what we've been looking at at plants is, OK, how can we play a meaningful role in trying to turn this around

and give shoppers what they need? Everyone needs those quick wins on busy nights. And a few months ago, the brand All Plants, who we've always really admired, if you're not in the UK, you may not know them. If you are in the UK, they've done amazing job and awareness around the brand and really built that up. Again, as a natural plant based brand, mostly direct to consumer though. And they unfortunately had some real financial difficulty and they went into administration a few months ago. Anyway, we've been talking to administrators over that time and always really interested in the brand. It's such an amazing brand. They've done such a brilliant job with the brand and what it represents. And as a result of a few of their

financial difficulties, no one bought the business as a whole and so we had the opportunity to buy the brand the brand name the trademarks there and all the kind of associated assets around the brand and so now we're going to merge all plants and plants together to create what we intend to have as a like real powerhouse a plant-based powerhouse to try and show how simple how delicious how 100% natural plant-based can be and having this opportunity to build a second business. It's a real... Hang on. Just everyone listening. She's so calm and collected speaking about it.

These are humongous business deals as in high pressure. You must have lost sleep over some of this. You must have been thinking, is this the right decision? Is this not the right decision? How on earth do you get to a point where you think we are going to actively buy this all plants name? I don't know. I think there's a balance, isn't there? We bought a factory about 18 months ago. I know, just cash again. There's a factory in the mix. I'm so proud of you though. Amazing. I don't know. I think it's just how we live our life and we're kind of, it's such an amazing opportunity building businesses. And I think it's amazing and working together on it. And so it just, it's a really cool opportunity. And as I said, I think, obviously, everything I've always done is about this mission to change the way that people eat. And I think when I look at the plant based category, I find it really sad that people are leaving it, people aren't engaging in it. You know, you look at certain retailers retailers and there's seven different types of plant-based bacon I just don't believe we need

seven different types of plant-based bacon I just I think it's a bit much let's have one let's have two whereas what there isn't anywhere near enough is natural simple things for people to get for dinner on their way home from work and so yeah and it's huge congratulations thank you and I also had the sweetest week because it was May. My little one's nursery had healthy week. And we did a delicious yellow breakfast, which she said was the best day of her life. But also on the Monday, I went in and we were doing affirmations. I do with the girls at home these little affirmations saying, like, I am brave.

I am strong. I'm special. I'm loved. I can do anything. And I was doing it with all these two, three, four-year-olds. And I tell you what, it's the best day of my year. All these little three, four-year-olds standing up there shouting, I am loved. I can do anything. I was like, I still don't know if I can say that to myself, but you're three and you can.

Oh, you should be so proud. That's so lovely. I mean, just their little faces. You can't, the enthusiasm when you can change. And what you don't know, Ella, is that's probably going to stick with those children. You know, they might go home and then say that to their parents. I know. Well, I find my girls do it all the time. Like when they're nervous for something, Megan, the little one, she loves to sing. And she makes up songs about how she's brave and how she's confident and how she knows she can do it.

And if she doesn't go well, she'll try and try again. It's so good. It's so good, though. it's so good though it's so good you think about it and you know my little one at the moment is saying I'm gorgeous so I need to work on the I'm brave he's only two Theodore so he'll get there Zaki will do the whole I'm brave but because I keep saying to him you're so gorgeous he's like I'm gorgeous I love that I need more of that in my life um but yeah, I really recommend it actually, both for kids, but for adults as well. If you struggle to say nice things

about yourself and to yourself, I think five minutes of that can be very powerful. So I think, Ella, in terms of updates, this has been pretty big for us. Yeah, it's been chunky. Thanks for bearing with everyone. I know. And hey, I want to be at May's nursery, let's be honest.

Oh my gosh, me too. Okay, so this is a sort of, I'm not sure if we're going to call this a recommendation or not a recommendation, which is moving on to the Belle Gibson Apple Cider Vinegar Netflix show. We've both watched it. I know a lot of you have watched it. It's trending on Netflix, but if you haven't watched it, I'm just going to give you an overview. It's not a spoiler. You probably have seen this around. So there's a new limited series called Apple Cider Vinegar on Netflix, and it tells this really, really shocking but totally true story of Belle Gibson, who was an Australian wellness influencer. And she essentially built a global brand on

deception. She claimed she'd cured terminal brain cancer through diet and lifestyle alternative medicine. So her rise to fame is all around the early 2010s. And she really was one of those early people leveraging Instagram and social media to share her supposed battle with this illness. She gained hundreds of thousands of followers and turned that influence into a really lucrative business. So she launched the wholeantry app, which Apple had in their stores around the world on those demo iPhones and iPads. She signed a massive book deal with Penguin. And she basically was like a beacon of hope to people

and really inspiring in terms of what you could do with will and holistic therapies. But in 2015, two investigative journalists uncovered the truth, which is that she had fabricated everything, absolutely everything. She had never been diagnosed with cancer and she had also lied about donating really meaningful proceeds from her business to charity, including money that was meant to go to a little boy's brain cancer treatment. And essentially, as people kept investigating the claims, more inconsistencies came up. And it became clearer and clearer that literally everything that she said was completely made up. Meanwhile, she was living this like very, very lavish lifestyle, spending all these earnings on like luxury houses and designer clothes, expensive cars.

She was fined a huge amount of money, hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think another fine was over a million dollars. And there was a big book about this called The Woman Who Fooled the World. And that is what Netflix have based their show on. Have you watched it? Do you know, I had to make myself watch it because I think it should come with a trigger warning, Ella. I am a very sensitive person. But honestly, the topic, I mean, I wanted to say storyline, but the fact that it's true is even more harrowing, I think. And that's what makes this program. It's so important you do watch it, first of all, for the sense that you need to realize that the online world, you know, isn't always what it says it is. And there was a lot of pseudoscience.

But if we take ourselves back to that time when all of this happened, it was the infancy of Instagram, wasn't it? It was the beginning of everything. But oh, gosh, when I was watching it with my PTSD, I found it very triggering in certain areas, the childhood cancer, you know, not giving money, the charities. I find it so upsetting how you can promise a little boy you're going to change his life with the surgery that he needs and then not deliver the money. That to me was beyond devastating. There were no words. And then at points, I found myself having sympathy for Belle, which was really not what I expected. But obviously, she's a mother. She was a mother. She's clearly, I mean, I think, mentally unstable, massively. Obviously, there's a lot of fabrication. You don't know what's true and what's not true from an individual like this, who's a chronic liar. But the fact that she had been through so

much in her childhood, but then we don't know if that's true, do we? That's it. I couldn't watch it. I watched about 30 minutes. Yeah. And I just couldn't watch it. I found I've seen it everywhere. Everyone's talking about it. There's so much in the the media it's charting on Netflix but I I found it so uncomfortable and obviously my mother-in-law died of brain cancer and I found that I don't know it just found it it was a bit close to home in that sense and I found it just so uncomfortable but I remember it so clearly and we talked about it on last week's show but I do think the most important thing is what you just said which is I think obviously this is the extreme it's the absolute extreme but it is really indicative of how much we need to take everything we see online with like

a vat of salt oh my not a pinch a vat a hugeat. Like a truckload of salt. Because there is no validation for so much. And so much of this is super, super anecdotal and it's personal. And that's not always a bad thing, but it can be. And I think it's just really extraordinary the extent to which you can create a fabric of lies and bring everyone along on this journey. And I think it obviously so many people were let down, so many people were disappointed. But equally, I found it frustrating because I think it portrays the wellness industry in such a negative light. And it's just that's always this tussle that I have, because as we were saying a few minutes ago, we're at this crossroads where we have to fundamentally change

the way that we eat in the world we have to start exercising more we have to take our sleep and our general well-being more seriously like it is we're reaching a crunch point where it is having such a devastating impact on our health our lifestyles and it's so important that we collectively turn the tide but that's not a con ella no i know that's not a the tide. But that's not a con, Ella. No, I know that's not a con. Don't worry, that's not a con. That's good stuff to say. No, but what I mean is that the wellness industry is an important part of that. And people are inspired by people they see online.

And they take ideas and inspiration to change their habits. And we do need to change our habits. And so I think I have this tussle, which is like, I feel frustrated with how negatively this portrays an industry, how toxic it feels. And I think for a lot of people that are watching this thinking, I don't want anything to do with the wellness industry. I need to take a mile run in the opposite direction, which actually isn't what we collectively need to do. So it's a, I feel very mixed. It's a good point. It's a really valid point to raise. It might push people to an extreme of, well, F everything, I'm not going to try and eat healthily at all. But I mean, the positive aspect of the show is that it highlights

the need for conventional medicine with cancer treatment, the fact that you cannot cure a disease or anything with juicing and please colonics colonics and all these sorts of other things, enemas that were brought up in this process. And at the time, it showed the absolute lack of regulation and also the disappointment that the media, I mean, Penguin didn't fact check her. Apple and all these huge, huge companies were just fed a lot of lies and didn't ask for any background. So I think what it did highlight, perhaps one positive of the storyline is this is the warning. You know, that's the big red warning of what happens when we take pseudoscience to the next level. And I'm really

hoping that in today, in 2025, we're talking like a decade later, that people have learned and they'll think online, it's worth regulating. So we're still fighting for regulation online. It's crazy. But I'm sad as well. It was, I'm don't blame you and you're watching half an hour. I was crying. And my husband turned around. He's like, Why are you watching that? It's like I said, I'd watch it for the podcast. He's like, this is clearly triggering you. He's like, turn it off. So I'd have to end the night with my friend Lucy's in-law was on Love Island All Stars, Scott. So I was like, let's just watch half an hour of Scott and Love Island before we go to bed after watching this because I need something that's so opposite. It's heavy.

Everyone, it's heavy. It's a warning. But equally, it's really sad. And it might put people off making healthy changes equally it's really sad and it it might put people off making healthy changes too but i really hope it doesn't yeah i really hope it doesn't very quick on recommendations this week i just need to um second the uh deodorant recommendation for a few weeks ago because i'm three weeks in now so i think it's a time to actually say everything is good fussy deodorant 10 out of. By far the best natural deodorant I have

ever used. That's huge. That's a huge accolade, Ella. I know. So keep it short and sweet, but that is my recommendation. If you heard it a few weeks ago, I can now validate Ree's claims that it is the best natural deodorant in town. And all this came because I came into the studio thinking I smelled that one day. So my recommendation is Amanda Land. If anyone out there, I know this isn't for everybody, but if you liked Motherland and you ever watched that on BBC, it is just hilarious. And it's just such an easy watch. And they're quick, like the episodes are not too long. You know, it's like half an hour max, I think. And then the second one, I've got Ella for her children, the Belly Bugs book, which I think is just such a genius idea to get children talking about gut health.

So you take that home with you, Ella. I'm so excited to read it to them. It's a really sweet cartoon. Your Belly Bugs Guide to Happy Eating. And it's trying to explain to kids the importance of their gut health. Because I think all of that gamification in terms of why it's important to eat your five a day is so important. And we count our five a day actually at home with the kids. And it's really good. Works well. Brilliant. Right. Should we move on to the health headlines?

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Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. OK, so we're moving on to the health headlines that matter. So this is the section where we break down the biggest health stories that are making news. And what is on our agenda this week? So picking up from last week, first of all, let's follow on from the household waste stats that we've got, Ella. So global food waste was a country. So if it was a country, it would be the world's third largest emitter after China and USA. I know. It's crazy, isn't it?

I had these in the tip of my tongue last week, but I didn't want to get them wrong when we were talking about food waste in terms of the cost of eating so I just wanted to pop them in this week because I think it is food for thought the UK alone weighs almost 10 million tons of food each year and I think we all are quick to think well that's restaurants that's industry it's actually not two million tons of that food waste comes from the food industry so the other 80 percent that's households. It's actually not. Two million tons of that food waste comes from the food industry. So the other 80%, that's households. And that includes, wait for it, 5.8 million whole potatoes and 900,000 tons of bread every single year. That amount of bread is the equivalent to a mind-blowing 24 million slices every day of bread that we're throwing away. So I think it's just the

point that basically, we should talk about it probably another week, but food waste is such a massive issue. And in terms of things being expensive, and the environmental impacts of our food and our diet, it's just I think, an important thing for us all to realize that actually it all adds up. And you think throwing one slice of bread away is not the end of the world, but actually collectively 24 million slices a day just in this country and I also was talking about number of people who don't live with a fridge as well and I wanted to just fact check myself on that and it was it's about 900,000 people in this country who are living without a fridge so it's easy for us to talk about healthy eating but it's important that we all kind of just remember

as well actually just so inaccessible for too many people which is a fundamental issue that we need to rectify in this country my goodness no it's so true it's just not and actually it reminded me of something you know you asked me at the start what did you find out in the book that was really interesting and there is a page on the environmental impact of ultra processed foods and what is interesting is the record number rising you know figures that we've got for household waste at the same time as the invention of ultra processed foods. So we made food to be more convenient for our health to last longer for people in different situations. But it's kind of backfired heavily because the food waste numbers are just going up and up at the same time as having these items on the shelf.

So the correlations are stark, really. You can't deny them. Really interesting. Okay, so our first headline this week, it really freaked me out. There's no two ways around that. I kept visualising, you know, the name of the headline. So microplastics found in human brains. And I kept, it made me feel funny, you know, when you go a tingly and it makes you actually physically think of like a lump of plastic sat in your head. I know. Should we be worried? Essentially, there was a groundbreaking study that was published in Nature Medicine that made headlines around the

world. And it confirmed that microplastics, so tiny, really tiny fragments of plastic, so as small as a hundred thousandth of a width of a human hair, so microscopic, but they are accumulating in human brains liver and kidneys as well as other organs and what came out was that researchers have been analyzing tissue samples and it's from 52 individuals who have died between 2016 and 2024 and they found 50 percent more microplastics in brain tissue from those who died in 2024 versus 2016. And then when they're looking at that versus samples dating back from 1997, so almost 30 years ago, that suggests that contamination has been increasing exponentially over time, which obviously reflects the global rise of plastic pollution.

I think just let's just pause for a second, because if anyone listening who's like me, and I think I can say for Ella as well, you get health anxiety a little bit. This is majorly triggering as well. We've got quite a deep episode today. But I too have been there thinking, oh my goodness, there's plastic in everything. I didn't even realise even my children having plastic cups at home, the cute ones, the little cartoon images on them and all sorts of things. And we have to also be kind on ourself and realise that we do live in a different world. And this is very, very new. It's very, very new. I think the most concerning thing that came out of this research was that the brain samples from people with dementia contained up to six times more microplastics than those without the disease. Obviously, scientists very quick to

stress that this does not confirm a causal link between microplastics in the brain and dementia or plastic in your lifestyle. But obviously, these findings are raising very, very urgent questions for them to be looking at about whether or not microplastics are contributing to neurological disorders. And that also includes things like strokes, and they're looking at heart attacks as well. And interestingly, there's more plastic in the brain was their findings than the other organs. So these cadaver brain samples contain seven to 30 times more microplastics in the brains than in the kidneys and liver. So it is really

extraordinary. And this bit is kind of mind boggling as well with the amount that they were then seeing in the brains. Today's brains are now 99.5% brain and 0.5% plastic. I mean, that is like if you take one thing from the episode, I think that is extraordinary. And in case anyone's curious, the plastics enter the brain. So these nanoplastics, the tiniest form of the plastic, they can basically, they can, scientists are saying, cross the blood-brain barrier and they hitch on to lipids, so fats from your diet, which are then absorbed into the brain. And that's how they get in there because the brain is made up of 60% fat and it's really dependent on this lipid, this fat transport. So they've also found microplastics in liver and kidney samples, as we said, but previous research is also showing it in blood,

semen, breast milk, placentas, bone marrow. So it is, it's really scary. And the research shows that we can probably flush it out of the liver and the kidneys, but it's really unknown whether or not the brain can clear these out. If we look at how society's evolved in the time span from this study, so I don't have the paper to hand in front of me now, but I can only imagine dissecting and pulling it apart. You're looking at 1997 here, and then you're going all the way up to 2024. So in that time, you know, we switched over to plastic baby bottles, you know, to put formula milk in. And so we're starting in infancy all the way up in a plastic world. There was a time when people would only drink water out of plastic bottles all the time. Things were being heated in our bags.

Microwave mills, we could look at also, we don't know the quality of life this data samples on. No, but what we do know is that global plastic production has doubled since 2002 and it's projected to double again by 2040. So we think it's basically raising this like very urgent need to understand what is the link, like do microplastics affect human health in exactly what way and then do we need to reduce exposure? But probably to everyone listening, I am literally going to have this running list in my mind of all of the plastic in my house right now. But it's in everything, it's in fish, It's already in the food system for so many people as well. So we can't avoid it. That's what I find so overwhelming by it is that we will be absorbing plastics. It's in the clothes that people can wear. I think a lot of people realize that you wear synthetic fibers. That's also a form of plastic. But that's more affordable. This is a much bigger headline. It's huge. It is absolutely huge. And it is,

as you said, like in terms of health anxiety, I find it really hard not to find it quite terrifying. And so I'm sure lots of you listening are the same. I think the one thing I'd say is, it is always important, I think, to bring yourself back to trying to find a reasonable balance for yourself. Because if you try and get to this point of perfectionism, eliminate all plastic, eliminate all ultra-processed foods, cook from scratch 21 times a week, as in three meals a day, seven days a week, all the rest of it, hold down a job, it just becomes so impossible. And so I think it's just trying to... So let's definitely bring it in the extra scoop.

We should get a plastic expert. We need somebody out there, a scientist. I want the scientist that did this study. Me too. I want someone to tell me to stop freaking out. But I am thinking about plastic, like plastic Tupperware that I still have. Is that necessary? Well, also, I think one change you can make like a positive spin on this is that, okay, we can't control it everywhere. But in your home, maybe be very wary. Do not heat things on plastic plates anymore. Heat them on a normal china plate or something and try and switch your lunchboxes to glass ones,

which you can buy. There's loads on Amazon that you can get these really cool glass lunchbox Tupperware. I've got loads of those. Yeah, no, I think that's a good shout. I will be having a quick look through my cupboard tonight. And don't worry, we'll get an expert in to reassure us all on this headline.

So Ella, headline number two. Oh my gosh, actually my colleague sent this to me because it was in a magazine called The Grocer, which is the UK's leading grocery trade magazine. If you work in the food industry, it's a big deal. If you don't work in the food industry, you probably have never heard of it. But the headline was,

could ultra processed foods face a legal challenge? And so lawyers are considering, and I stress considering, bringing a class action lawsuit against major food companies in what would be an unprecedented legal challenge to the UK food and drink sector. So there's a law firm called Lee Day, and they are investigating whether food manufacturers have knowingly made their products addictive, so essentially using neuroscience-based tactics to increase consumption,

a bit like the gambling and tobacco industries have been accused of in the past. So for people listening, that's making it hyper palatable. And also what I've looked at for the book is things that are easier to chew that have a softer palate, because we actually eat more of the food in a shorter space of time, increasing our calorie consumption. And also with the more additives, different ingredients we put in, sugar, salt, fat, everything, we can obviously eat a lot more of this stuff than if we'd made it from scratch and it tasted quite bland. Exactly. So obviously, no legal action has been taken yet. But there are these discussions happening as well with policy experts about whether these big food companies should be held responsible for some of these health impacts of UPFs, which have obviously been linked to rising obesity, diabetes, heart disease. And interestingly, there's actually quite a few

lawsuits which are already underway in the US. So in December, there was a law firm that sued Mondelēz, Kraft Heinz, Coca-Cola, Nestle, and a few others, accusing them of deliberately designing addictive UPFs that overwhelmingly target children. And another law firm is preparing legal action, apparently against the FDA, arguing that weak regulations have allowed really harmful products to flood the market. Can I tell you something I turned down last year, which probably is one of these products?

I was approached by one of those huge companies and they have a children's food, like an instant powder that's called porridge for babies. But in these porridges, it was labelled as honey and really sweet flavourings for a baby under the age of 12 months to have. And to me, I just thought, why are you approaching me? This is totally pointless. But I saw other influencers take it. It was a huge amount of money. It would have probably transformed my life. But I obviously turned it down but they have massive

budgets and you should not be feeding babies that amount of sugar I was shocked when I read the ingredient list and they were reluctant to give it to me Ella so I asked four times on email how can you expect me to consider a partnership without showing me what's inside the product and that was one of those you just listed that's so interesting I'll tell you after the episode because I don't want to write I don't want to draw public attention to it. Let's not get sued. No, let's not get sued. Six episodes in, let's not have a lawsuit.

But yeah, it is absolutely fascinating you said that. I think obviously nothing's happened yet. Lee Dave really clear to insist no lawsuit has been filed. But there is this obviously mounting global scrutiny on ultra processed foods, hence your book demystifying it for people. And so there is this increasing pressure and I think questioning more than anything on the food industry of like, did you know that these things were going to be so bad? And how much have we been altering them to make them that addictive? And I have to say, I've obviously worked in the food industry for kind of 10 years or so now. And I have visited so many factories and there's kind of 10 years or so now and I have visited

so many factories and there's loads of great ones and there's great people that work there and I think the manufacturing part of the UK is amazing and I feel really privileged to be a part of it but I will say I have been so taken aback by the things that are considered food and when you have been around these factories there are many things you would never consider eating ever again, because it is foul. Yes, there's various things you see in sort of the grey sludge swirling around that eventually becomes a product. And you just think, that's just not food. Last week, you said, you know, if you add anything to it, it becomes a health claim. And you could essentially have a chocolate bar or some grey sludge, add a multivit to it, like you said. That's what we're saying with children's breakfast

cereals. Yeah, exactly, which is what they've kind of done here. A load of sugar, let's add a multivitamin, and then I can say it's a source of vitamin D for a child, and then I can entice someone to buy it. It's like for, actually, something we were looking at, to make a gut health claim, even though it had, say, 10 plant points in it, pumpkin seeds, buckwheat, quinoa, sunflower seeds, etc. We had to add an additive to it, essentially, in order to be able to make the claim. Even though it has all the ingredients that your body wants, that is good for your gut. But to make a claim, one must add an additive. I know.

And so it's really interesting. It shows how messed up the whole situation is. I've worked for so many food companies that want a high fiber claim. And I'm like, well, you're going to have to add some inulin or something into your product because it's just chicory. You have to add so much stuff to hit the number that's required. Yeah. So it is interesting. And exactly a lot of these companies put a little bit of multivitamin in and then you can make all sorts of claims, which is really interesting. But I thought this was curious as actually over 60%, this was a data set from Waitrose, over 60% of their shoppers have now said they're concerned over ultra-processed foods,

which is leading them to scratch cook more. Yay, love it. It's so great to scratch cook more. But it's also interesting given that no one was talking about this a few years ago. And we got trolled for it. We got trolled. Oh my God, we got trolled for it. We got trolled. Oh, my God, we got trolled. I got compared to Donald Trump in a very reputable magazine for being the ultimate spreader of misinformation.

Are you joking? And that's so interesting, again, and we will touch on this in another episode, but it's because you're female. When I was trolled, and when I say trolled, I mean kind of taken down many pegs in the media on this. The criticism was only leveled at women. Absolutely mind boggling. But I'd like to talk about what's trending in wellness this week. Okay, so trending in wellness this week, we have got, Ella, you find all the best trends. So Ryan Lloyd Haynes, is that right?

Yes, I think that's his name. He did this video that's gone completely viral. When I last checked, it had 7 million views on Instagram. Lots of you guys have probably seen it. It just made me laugh so much. I think it summarises everything we're trying to do on here. So I'm going to try and say it as quickly as possible, which is what he does. Okay, so he's just looking straight at camera and he says,

I just wanted to confirm that everyone else was doing no screen time before bed, sleeping in a cold room with no coffee before 11am.m., warm water with lemon as soon as you open your eyes, but no phone for the first two hours, sunlight on your third eye first thing, red light therapy for half an hour, 10,000 steps a day, an ultramarathon with no social media, 12 eggs, raw goat's milk with three avocados, two raw steaks on a full plant-based diet, dip down in magnesium spray with ashwagandha, zinc, vitamin B12, sauna, gym, cold therapy, but only before the gym because it will affect the gains. Electrolytes, hit your protein goals,

two litres of water, but please God, no tap water, no gels, gum, sucralose, sugar, sweetness, no porn, meditation for half an hour a day, all whilst microdosing while replying to WhatsApp, six of which are three-minute long voice notes. Check in with your friends and family, maintain a relationship, write in your gratitude journal while going to therapy,

and not to mention a job and kids. I'm just checking everyone else is doing that. Genius. Genius. And it's gone completely viral. And I'm not doing him justice because he does it so well. But I think it sums up everything we're trying to do on here, which, oh my goodness me, wellness has gone completely insane and mad. This is why I'm so passionate about this podcast, because as we said at the top, it matters so much that we collectively change our lifestyles, our diets, our management of our stress, our sleep. We need to move our bodies, all the rest of it. But we don't need to do all of that. So, yes, it matters.

But stop feeling like you need to put a billion tons of pressure on yourself, because that list is also, as he's really brilliantly pointing out, is exceptionally contradictory and ironic. I mean, there's about 70 different things on it. 70 different things, which also there's the bit that says 12 eggs, raw goats, milk with three avocados, two raw steaks on a four-part-based diet. Hilarious, yeah. So we're going to talk about two things in our trends today, which are quite linked. The first one is the obsession with measuring your glucose and blood sugar spikes. And the second is oat milk. So you guys have probably seen glucose monitors everywhere right now.

Channel 4 did a show in January about blood sugar. Obviously, the app Zoe has been so popular. We're seeing people talking about this all over social media. And look what I've got on my finger. Yeah. Well, it's a sizing to fit a ring. But let's get into that in a minute when we talk about the health tech. Okay, so to give everyone a little bit of background, because you guys know I love background. In recent years, interest in health monitoring technology has just soared. But

in 2022, the global digital health market was valued at 330 billion US dollars. And forecasts are suggesting that might exceed 650 billion US dollars by 2025, so the end of this year. 46% of UK adults, which is really interesting, are using some form of health tracking technology, like a Fitbit or an Apple Watch. But the new trend of these continuous glucose monitors has become the sort of latest must-have gadget. Can you tell us what is a continuous glucose monitor? It's been really interesting. So when these first came on the scene, my best friend Tanya is type 1 diabetic and they changed her life. So it meant

that you can fit a monitor on your arm. It's got a tiny needle in there and it measures your blood sugar levels. So she'll know if she's low or if she's high or if she needs to eat something else and it can monitor her insulin, which essentially, because obviously she can't do that for herself because type 1 is very different to type 2 diabetes, which we should differentiate in terms of meaning that her body cannot produce effectively insulin. But people with type 2, it's more of a lifestyle-induced condition. Obviously, different various factors can implement that. But as they are designed for people with diabetes and then seeing the mainstream media lap these up,

I found that fascinating. So they've been around since 1999. And that's to help people monitor, like right now, Ella, if we were wearing them, we would know exactly what our blood sugar levels were doing, which is crazy. And it's just under the skin. It's really like a tiny needle. But it's enough to give you these continuous updates throughout the day. But originally, you needed a prescription to get one.

And that's what I think has been really, there's a positive and a negative to this in terms of accessibility. But in March 2024, the FDA, they approved these monitors for over-the-counter sales. So anyone can buy one without having a prescription. And obviously, these apps, there are so many of them now that you know, like Tim Spector, who I completely respect, but he has a personalized nutrition program called Zoe. And the idea is that you track the blood sugar to help you understand how your body responds to different foods, stress, sleep, and exercise. And that's all very well.

And for some people, and I say that with a real caveat, I wish I could put that in bold, only some people will this be really beneficial for others. It can induce anxiety. It can be totally unnecessary. And it won't make a difference because you already eat pretty well. And the changes that you make in your diet wouldn't really matter. But for some people, it can help them prevent energy dips, keep inflammation on the low because you're not chronically stressing out your body all the time. And it can sync with your phone. It's interesting, Ella, but it's caused a shortage for people that actually have need them because they're diabetic. Yeah because there's been such a quick spike in

demand hasn't that so I think I would love for everyone listening to probably take a step back and ask you if you could explain to us in the most basic of terms what is your blood sugar, why would we want to monitor it? What is glucose? What's the relevance? Okay, so let me think how to really simply explain. So everything you eat is energy. And sugar is a really good source of energy. And actually sugar comes in different forms. You get fructose from fruit, you get lactose from dairy, you get glucose from carbs. And we're specifically talking about glucose here because it gets a lot of time and energy and it comes from the foods and drinks that we we consume and it impacts the bloodstream and then insulin that we release from our pancreas it helps your body absorb it and the analogy at

uni that we used to have is like a lock and a key insulin helps it's like the key unlocking the cell to help your cell absorb all of that glucose you've just eaten and then take it to where it needs to go but one thing that happens for us daily is a blood sugar roller coaster is what I used to call it in clinic. And I remember writing about it in my first book, Renourish, where your blood sugar naturally is meant to go up and down throughout the day. That's what happens. But the peak of your wave or that roller coaster, however high that drop is going to be, is dependent on what you eat, how stressed you are, how well you slept and all these other factors. So our goal in clinic before all of this came about, before all these blood glucose monitors came about for people that weren't diabetic, was just to try and have a steady

line. I used to say, let's try and keep you on one race course that doesn't have any loop-de-loops. Let's just try and keep you straight. And by doing that, you have to eat a balanced plate that contains fats that slow the release of sugars and protein and lots of fiber but again back to ultra processed foods and it's amazing how it all comes back a lot of these health conversations to the rise of ultra processed foods and I wrote about this in the new book is that so many of these items because they're hyper palatable don't have the fiber they don't have the healthy fats. They contain a lot of readily available energy. And actually, I won't go into all the different levels. I actually thought I'd tell you all the different kind of millimoles that you need. But I actually think the biggest thing is just to note that it's normal to have these

spikes and crashes. But if you have it for too long, that's raised. So if your spike and you're elevating your glucose for a prolonged period of time consistently and not eating well that will cause insulin resistance and it can lead to type 2 diabetes, prolonged inflammation that impacts your blood vessels and that's what leads to things like heart disease which is a big problem for women in this country just as much as men. I think there's that stereotype there. So does that kind of explain it for everybody? I think what it does as well, it takes us back to where we were five minutes ago,

which is this really interesting tension in the health and well-being world where what we're saying and what you're saying here is that having an awareness of your blood sugar is actually very, very important because a healthy diet will give you gentle really nice baby waves where you eat something as a result your blood glucose will rise a little bit and it will come back down and it will do it in a slow and steady like a really nice calming beach yeah and you know if you have one thing that's going to spike it it's just a one-off exactly and won't make any difference anything which is i think what we really want to get across in this show. But if every day you're having very high sugar, very low fibre, low healthy fat, low protein

meals, to your point, a lot of ultra processed foods and a lot of fast food are kind of the worst culprits for that. And instead of having lovely, calm, tropical beach vibes, you've got tsunamis where you're going like you're coming up and you're crashing down and you're coming up and you're crashing down. And these are like pointed spikes up and down. You will feel really tired. You'll feel like you crave more sugar because you've crashed right down. Your body's like, give me energy, give me energy. In clinic, we used to call it the morning coffee run.

So it would be our classic people coming to see us in clinic that had an office job to get to. And they'd skip breakfast with the rush. They grab a coffee, then they grab a croissant or something. And then it would be a flavored coffee with all the syrups and things. And you've got such a start to the day with such a high trough, a high wave that the rest of the day you're then craving that. And it sets your whole day off on the wrong foot. Whereas if they'd started with a healthier, fibre-rich breakfast, even like a porridge with some nuts or something, or yoghurt,

something really easy, then their wave's just going to be setting them up for good decisions. It affects your decisions. And you don't get that immediate hunger in the same way. But as we were saying, it's this really interesting balance again. If it does matter, we need to educate people on this and empower people. But equally, does everybody, if you're moving towards eating a generally very healthy, balanced diet, do you then actually, is there any purpose whatsoever in measuring this? Or is that, again, getting to this like alter, hyper-optimization, hyper-perfectionist cycle, which actually removes some joy for your life? My vote goes in that camp. And I'm not talking about people who need to do it. it could be an interesting wake-up if you think you're eating

healthily but actually potentially you're not so much but if what you're eating is very home-cooked it's very natural there's lots of healthy proteins healthy fats whole grains I just to me it's like it's part of this ridiculous hyper-optimization as I said like, like fixational perfectionism, which I just think removes some of the joy from life. And it's expensive, Ella. It's so expensive. Matt and I both tried one of these programs. We were sent it, we were curious. And it came back at the end, it was like, don't eat donuts. I'm like, well, I can't eat that red. And it was like, yeah, it was my daughter's birthday. We had donuts. It was delicious. I really enjoyed it. And to the whole point, one-off makes no difference. If you're doing that all day, every day, it's very bad for your health.

And I honestly think that we've seen it be very successful for some people and not remotely effective for others. And I think it's so important to gauge that, that the best thing you can do for your health is try and cook more meals from scratch and get a bit more sleep and all the basic things that we talk about on here. And you don't have to. And the reason I'm wearing this trial ring is because I'm actually working at the moment behind the scenes for a health tech app, but they're going to be doing a multitude of areas.

So my role as a nutrition consultant is what we do at Retrition a lot. People don't see this work because it's not online. This is what we do. We help companies improve their nutritional recipes, make the high fiber claim? How can a tech app improve their user friendly nutrition section on their apps? But I'm intrigued by these because apparently they look at your sleep. And I think that if we're using health tech, we need to have a 360 degree picture, rather than just one area of it. So watch this space, everybody. But as you said, I think it's also like, you almost need to have all of these things so that you're not having a kind of reductive view of your health, which is also one of the

challenges because whilst what's happening with your blood sugar is important to what we were just saying, it's not the only thing that's important, but it can become a bit one dimensional. So I think, first of all, address just the basics. And once you've done the basics, then if you're interested, add on. But I think it's so important that we get the basics and once you've done the basics then if you're interested add on but I think it's so important that we get the basics first and we just don't feel we have to be on this ultimately like treadmill of self-optimization because at what point does it ever end? It never ends. Exactly then you become Brian Johnson. Yeah you become Brian Johnson and then you're referred to as Donald Trump so let's say. So I think this I think it moves us on perfectly

to the second headline we want to talk about which is this oat milk backlash it's our third headline oh my gosh and it's wild okay I'm going to just take out some of the Instagram's pictures that I've saved on it so this one said oatly milk has the glycemic load of a coke and as much oil as a serving of fries and the next one says your oat milk flat white is killing you. I have no association with oatly. I actually don't drink oatly. I just wanted to clarify that.

But what I'm saying is I think it's so extreme, the conversation around oat milk and the headlines everywhere. The standard was, where did it all go so wrong for oat milk that I was running the demise of oat milk? The Independent had the rise or fall of oat milk, has the trendiest dairy alternative finally fallen from grace? Awful.

It's so sad. It is quite, yeah, it's quite odd, isn't it? It's so odd. We love ClickPay. We love extremes in this country. But obviously oat milk used to be the kind of go-to dairy alternative. And it's just now losing its popularity. And so you've got all these viral things online, as we were just

saying, all these headlines, and so much of it's coming back to the claims that it spikes blood sugar because we're all obsessed with blood sugar at the moment in terms of the industry. And sales are really slowing. So Oatly is by far and away the top oat milk brand. And it barely grew last year in the UK, which is such a huge drop. Because between 2019 and 2020, it grew 100% growth. So absolutely booming. And then interestingly, dairy is making a comeback with 81% of young Europeans drinking cow's milk at least once a week. So I think my big question for you today is, can you debunk this for us? Like, does oat milk actually spike blood sugar? When you sent me those pictures pictures I was just so shocked I mean to say it's killing you it's just no no journalist

should ever write that that wasn't a journalist that was a that was an instagram right I have a real problem if that's the case but we're sat here Ella very kindly I was actually in prep about to order my matcha and Ella has she texts me at the same time I was in the queue being like, I've got you a matcha. I was like, yes. And we've got oat milk, haven't we? We've got oat milk, yeah. So we've got oat milk. Let me explain for you, everybody.

So these headlines and Instagram posts are just unequivocally false. I mean, it's absolutely wild. So the glycemic load, the GL, which we call it, is important because it looks at both the sugar and the effective serving sizes on the response that we get in our blood. So one large glass, I've got this written down in front of me, of Oatly Barista Edition, that's 240 ml, guys, or a dash in your coffee, 100 ml, is actually low in terms of the measurement for the glycemic load. And I cannot get this. It's the equivalent to cow's milk in the full fat whole category, which is also low. So as you'd expect... As in officially low.

Officially. If you look at the graph of how you... Exactly. It is officially low. Like the blood glucose response to cow's milk and oats drink is perfectly identical. It's exactly the same. There is no difference. And that's because the carbohydrates you find are slightly different. So lactose in cow's milk versus maltose and starchy carbs you get in oat drinks. And despite these differences, both drinks are in the low category. So it's something you just do not need to think about. And to give you some extra context, a fizzy drink, so 250 mils,

obviously, has a GL of nearly double that of oat milk. and a 500 milliliter bottle of fizzy drinks has a calculated GL value in the high category. So scientifically, it's absurd. Yeah, it's just officially wrong. Yeah. I don't even know what else to say. It's just so wrong. And I think it's also important to cut back to what we were just saying a moment ago, which is that our bodies naturally regulate our blood sugar with insulin. So if you're eating a healthy diet and generally you're looking after yourself and your meals are well balanced and you're getting your healthy fats and your proteins and your whole grains and all the good stuff

and then you really like to have a splash of oat milk in your coffee, in your matcha, that's all good. The idea that like that could kill you, I don't know, it just feels so extreme. I just hate that the word anyway kill i just think it you know with the curve pronunciation when i say it out loud i just think it's so intense obviously it's absolutely wild and i think then people are saying that it's um a bloat milk because it causes loads of bloating can you talk us through that it's just not scientifically possible unless you drink it really really quickly and engulf loads of air while you're gulping down your milk and have a couple of cartons at once yeah and just

i don't know what are you doing maybe you're sat down hunched over at your desk and but you know bloating is one of those things we'll get our um we'll do an expert on bloating because we do i've got someone really good we can have on for that but no please don't panic about your oat milk everyone we could talk for a very long time on it, but the seed oils are so minimal. The fortification's there to give you nutrition and the glycemic load is low. It's an interesting example because obviously most oat milks would be classified as ultra-processed. How do you feel about that with all your knowledge of ultra-processed foods? I think that unless you are drinking litres of it a day,

I think it's a good example of an ultra-processed food with benefits. You know, what about the – that is so high for lactose intolerance. I think it's around 60% to 70% of people in the world are lactose intolerant. Like they can't actually have dairy. So how can we not have alternatives for these people? And then what if you can't have dairy and you can't have soy? Then what else are you meant to drink and you can't have nuts? It's just remember everybody remember our privilege of options that we have out there how amazing there's a drink for people that can't have the other things too and so much of this is

about quantities isn't it the problem with ultra processed foods is that it's making up over half of our diets now it's not about a splash in coffee so i think it's just like context yeah it's so context and even if your big ultra processed meal of the day is your breakfast cereal and your It's not about a splash in coffee. So I think it's just like context. Yeah, it's so context. And even if your big ultra-processed meal of the day is your breakfast cereal and your fortified milk, I would say the health benefits of having that outweigh the negative impacts of the ultra-processed food. And I have an example of that in the book, a comparison of these different items. But it's the lunches and dinners most of the time with ultra-processed ingredients that start to make a difference on our health. That's really interesting.

And I think it's also one more thing. Oat milk's not even my drink of choice. No, it's not even my drink of choice. But I just think this is an important one to say, which is that oat milk is so much better for the environment. It uses 93% less water, 72% less carbon dioxide, 99% less land than producing the equivalent litre of cow's milk. And that is taken from a leading study from Oxford University. So again, I'm not kind of saying never have dairy milk. I'm not saying only drink oat milk. I don't think either of us are. But I think just please, please, please don't freak out when you see things like the one saying that oat milk has more oil than fries and

more sugar than coke it's like well it really doesn't unless you're sitting here drinking like three or four cartons in any one go which would just be an odd issue in and of itself potentially and full disclosure we were not paid by oatly or oat milk company to do this feature on this podcast no way just seeing it everywhere and loads of people have sent it to us saying, can you talk about this? Because I've worked with them before on Mythbusting, but I think it's really important because a lot of the time you hear, oh, they're sponsored by these people to say that, but we're not. We're literally raising this topic because it's in the headlines. And also because I really do like a milk match. So I wanted to get a bit of personal reassurance on that. and that moves us on to

our last thing for today which is our listeners question and we actually had lots of listeners questions on this so I don't have one particular one to read out but it's a follow-up from what we've been talking about on protein which is that there's a lot of conversation asking whether we need more protein as we age it's a big buzz topic at the moment causing quite a lot of confusion for our listeners will you give us a nice little answer for that? Oh, we love protein. I mean, there's such a hype. As we discussed in the protein episode, which was that our number two? I think it was number two, yeah.

It was number two. As we go on, I'll forget which number episodes we get to. But basically, yes, we do, as we age, need more protein than younger adults. But that's simply because our muscle mass decreases as we age so you really need the protein to help you maintain muscle mass and function but that does not mean you need to go out and buy bags of protein powder and really panic about hitting a certain amount at every meal because protein synthesis works across the course of the day rather than after each individual meal but we need to be aware because rates of sarcopenia, osteoporosis increase as oestrogen for females, this is our female hormone declines. And one thing I remember

when I was training at university was it's recommended to go on the contraceptive pill for some women at periods of their life to protect their bone health if they're not, you know, getting the oestrogen that's required. So I'm not saying that's a recommendation, everybody. That's just some of the science that we were learning about oestrogen decline and how it impacts our bone health. And what sort of age does this start to happen? 25 onwards is quite depressing. I know Ella's face, but I mean, in terms of muscle mass and bone mass, we don't start adding to it. It just kind of depletes very slowly over the course of each year. It goes down a very minimal amount, but it probably accelerates as we go through menopause because of that oestrogen decline or perimenopause,

which for most women, perimenopause symptoms probably around 40, very early. But some women can go through actual menopause as early as like mid-40s and different cultures experience it earlier than others. And we'll definitely have an expert on again for menopause that can do it more justice. But older adults should consume around 1 to 1.2 grams of protein per kilo of body weight. Yeah, it's probably around like 25 to 30 grams each meal. And you know what, it's much easier to achieve that than you think, promise. And in the book as well, I should say I've put protein because I knew everyone would ask for it. I've kind of given up hiding. I'd never do calories, but everyone wants to know how much protein's in their meal these days so i did put a little note but as you said it's actually so much easier than

you think getting in and that again every little helps which is that it's things like the table slogans that isn't that on the bum pat so the tesco was no it's not no it's one of the supermarkets what's the one that is the asda oh yeah that's asda i think it might be asda yeah someone will tell us i'm sure of that um but it's that thing where it's like another tablespoon of pumpkin seeds will add a good like up to five grams or so of protein but it will also be adding really healthy fats it's adding great vitamins and minerals it's getting your plant points in there so we think as well when you're thinking about that extra protein it's a really nice opportunity to potentially add in foods or like quinoa for example is a whole grain like really rich in

protein that's got all the amino acids that's basically got all the same amino acids in it that animal produce has totally and really good for your gut so don't think when you hear protein like okay just need to eat loads of chicken at every single meal again it's not that every meal has to be veggie but there's so many different chicken and rice the classic instagram thing that was going around wasn't it exactly rank whereas if you're thinking i need a bit more protein there are ways of adding it into every meal that also support extra plant points and gut health and fiber and so you can do it all together so just a little food for thought but thank you guys for listening thank you for bearing with us with all our big news it's exciting and it's so nice for you to chat it through here.

Oh my goodness. I mean, the nerves. I think I'm bright red as we speak because it's quite hot in here. But equally, I feel a sigh of relief because I knew I was going to share it with you all today. And I'm sure Ella felt the same. But when you're actually speaking about yourself and not the headlines we're reading, it's a really difficult thing to do. So I just hope that plants can help everybody

out there and the unprocessed plate can help people too. And we can't wait to tune in Monday with more headlines. Every week we just have too much to talk about. So we will see you next week. You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn ads. Email bob at libsyn.com to learn more. That's B-O-B at L-I-B-S-Y-N dot com.