The Wellness Scoop - The Science of Happiness

Episode Date: September 8, 2020

Tal Ben-Shahar created the most popular course in Harvard’s history, studying the science of happiness. He guides us through the universal pillars of happiness from the importance of learning and curiosity to our relationships, meaning and purpose, as well as the universal detractors from the downfall of technology to the gap in our expectations, the modern rat race and the misunderstanding of the connection between, wealth, success and happiness.   Poem – The Guest House by Rumi Book – Happier by Tal Ben-Shahar The Happiness Studies Academy - https://www.happinessstudies.academy See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Samsung Galaxy. Ever captured a great night video only for it to be ruined by that one noisy talker? With Audio Erase on the new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, you can reduce or remove unwanted noise and relive your favorite moments without the distractions. And that's not all. New Galaxy AI features like NowBrief will give you personalized insights based on your day schedule so that you're prepared no matter what. Buy the Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra now at samsung.com. Hi and welcome to the Delicious Yellow podcast with me, Ella Mills. So we have had a great week doing

lots of brilliant things. We are so excited to see the dipped almonds that we just launched that we were talking about last week in Waitrose now as well as on our web shop deliciousyellow.com and in Whole Foods and we've been filming so much for the app this week. Loads and loads of new fitness content so that's going to be up in the next couple of weeks and we're actually talking all about the power of exercise next week so tune in for that but in advance of the baby coming we've started recording some of the episodes in advance and doing the intros a little bit later so the nice thing about that is you can reflect on the episode and I have to say this was truly one of the best conversations I've been lucky enough to have at Delicious Cielo and I really hope you love listening to it and get as much from it as I did. So as you guys

know we are fascinated by happiness at Delicious Cielo and by what makes us happy and what doesn't and what we can do to influence that positive change in our lives and today's guest really he's just spectacular he He created the most popular course ever in the history of Harvard University, studying exactly this, our happiness and positive psychology, and has since created the Happiness Academy, which is really trying to move the conversation away from anything that could be deemed sort of woo-woo or new age, and really merge the idea of happiness with full science, statistics, substance to create something really concrete. So today we're going to be talking about those key universal pillars

of happiness, meaning, purpose, our physical well-being, the importance of learning, of curiosity, our relationships, but then on the flip side, the common detractors of happiness, most especially technology, social media, how those fit into the puzzle, as well as the modern day rat race, the chasing of monetary success and our own expectations. And as I said at the beginning, this truly was one of my favorite conversations that we've ever had on the podcast, and I really hope you enjoyed it. So I am now thrilled to introduce you to today's guest, Tal. Tal, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Thank you. It's very good to be here.

So as the first question, I'd love to just start with the kind of original concept that you talked about in relation to happiness of positive psychology. And first of all, kind of what that is, why it's resonating so much and why it's so important and drawing such interest right now, obviously becoming, you know becoming the most popular course at Harvard? And what does it teach us about living that happier, more fulfilled life? Yeah, I think the interest comes from the novelty of it. And again, not the novelty in terms of the topic that it addresses or even the ideas, but the novelty in terms of applying the scientific lens to happiness. So until recently, this whole realm of positive psychology or happiness or self-help has really been dominated by new age, by perhaps

charismatic speakers and inspiring writing. The problem is while it was accessible to all, it didn't have the rigor and the substance. On the other hand, you look at academia, and it has the rigor and substance, but very often it wasn't accessible. And what positive psychology does is it brings the two together. It bridges between the rigor of the ivory tower and the accessibility of the self-help or new age movement. And here lies its appeal. So students were attracted to this class, whether it's at Harvard or Yale or hundreds of universities around the world,

because it provided them evidence-based tools to improving the quality of their lives. That's very interesting. I like that idea of meeting in the middle between the kind of the science of their lives. That's very interesting. I like that idea of meeting in the middle between the kind of the science and the facts. And as you said, what's popular today. But one of the things you talk about, I was watching one of your videos last night, but as part of the Happiness Academy is that these ideas aren't new humans desire and search for happiness dates back kind of our entire history. And you've got great quotes, I think it is from people like Aristotle in there. Yeah, you know, so this has been a question, I would argue the question

on people's minds and hearts for thousands of years. So Aristotle talked about it, the Bible talks about it, you know, Lao Tzu and Confucius both talk about it. So across the globe and throughout our history, this has been an important question. And it's an important question because it is an innate need. You know, we all want to put it bluntly, seek pleasure, avoid pain. We all want to lead a better, happier life. So people have been asking, how do we do it? Just like people have been asking and researching, what food should we eat? And how can we get more of it, or at least enough of it? It's a natural need. Food is a natural need. Happiness is.

And then in the foundation of the Happiness Academy, am I right in saying you didn't feel the positive psychology in what we were just talking about went far enough? Because as you're saying, it's so fundamental and innate to us as human beings, it actually should be a discipline in and of itself. And now you're kind of bringing that together, looking at how kind of biology and psychology and philosophy, etc, all come into that. Yeah, so this was a question that came to me just five years ago. So I had been involved in positive psychology, the science of happiness for close to two decades. But five years ago, I was on a flight and a question came to mind. The question was, how is it that there is a field of study for psychology, which had

been my field and philosophy and history and medicine and biology and you name it. And there hasn't been a field of study dedicated to happiness. So yes, there is a positive psychology, but that's just the psychology of happiness. What about what philosophers, again, like Lao Tzu and Aristotle had to say about happiness? What about what theologians had to say about happiness and economists and neuroscientists? Why isn't there a field or rather an interdisciplinary field of study that brings together what these disciplines, what these very smart people had to say about living the good life. And I resolved along with a number of my colleagues to create such a field of happiness studies that brings together

what Shakespeare and Marianne Evans had to say about happiness and what Lao Tzu and Chinua Akibe had to say about happiness, bringing these ideas together, integrating them all in the service of a happier life for the individual, for the family, and ultimately for nations, for our society. And did you find, you know, as you started to look through the ages and all different philosophers coming at it from different races and different countries and different periods of time, did you feel like there were very common threads that came up time and time again? Or did you find that the kind of concept of happiness really was actually quite differentiated depending on the angle that you're approaching it from? Yeah, you know, that's a very important question to ask. It's very important in

the context of what we do today, as scholars and practitioners. You know, it reminds me of a story that Daniel Goleman, the emotional intelligence guy, told when he encountered the Dalai Lama. This was a very large event, which was held in India, where the Dalai Lama and other experts in meditation and Eastern philosophy were there. And there were also many academics from the West, from Europe, from the United States, leading scholars, whether it's neuroscientists, whether it's psychologists, you know, they all came together and they spent five amazing days together. And what they did there for the first three days, you know, they were talking about all the research, about the good life, about dealing with painful emotions and so on. And on the third day, the Dalai Lama, in his usual humble way, raised his hand and asked for permission to speak, which he was granted, surprisingly.

And he said, you know, the last three days really have been incredible, but I have a bit of a concern. And my concern is that we spent so much time over the last three days talking about cultural differences and cultural differences are of course real but we're missing the essential point and the essential point is that we're much more alike than we're different. That human nature is at the base of it all and that whether it's in the East or West, North or South, we desire similar things. And these are the things that we need to talk about and focus on, our similarities much more than our differences. And I absolutely agree with the Dalai Lama. We need to look at cultural differences. We need to look at differences in terms of times,

you know, because 2000 years ago, you know, life was different than it is today. At the same time, there are many more similarities. For example, whether it's 2,000 years ago or 5,000 years ago or today, whether it's in Beijing, London or New York or Nairobi, people want meaning. People want relationships. People want to learn. People want to do good. These are the similarities that we need to focus on. And these are also the similarities, you know, what you call the common strands that I encountered, that we encounter, regardless of where we look, regardless of which discipline we look at, and regardless of which era we observe.

I absolutely love that. I think it's so easy to think about the differences and think about what makes happiness harder in life today. Things like technology, we were talking about before we started recording versus 2000 years ago. But actually, as you said, those kind of key pillars of meanings and relationships and purpose in life, that's always been the same. And I wondered if we could tap into some of the kind of key pillars of what determines happiness. Like, is there a universal standard for happiness? You know, is it all just relative to other people? How do you know when you're happy? Can you go from

happy to happier? And what are the key strands of all of that for each person? Yes. So when I explored the different approaches to happiness and again, different cultural approaches, my colleagues and I identified essentially five common elements, five common strands. They're not the only ones, but they're probably the main ones. And again, you see the writings of Aristotle refer to these five, as do the writings of Confucius. These five are as follows. The first element of happiness is spiritual well-being. And by spirituality, of course, we can mean religion.

However, it can go beyond religion. Spirituality is about having a sense of meaning and purpose in life. It is about being present to the miracle of creation. You know, Einstein once reportedly said there are two ways to live our life. One is as if nothing is a miracle. The other is as if everything is a miracle. And essentially what he was talking about then was being present to the wonder of reality that's outside and inside us. So spirituality is an important part of a happy life.

Physical well-being is, of course, an important part of a happy life. And that's about physical exercise. And it's about nutrition, about health in general. It's about sleep. You know, these are very important elements of happiness that are, of course, universal. Then there is intellectual well-being. You know that there is research showing that people who continuously learn, who are curious, who ask questions, who, you know, watch lectures and read books or go out to nature and study the wonder-filled world around them.

Curiosity leads to a longer life. The research shows that when we ask questions, when we learn, we actually become healthier and are likely to live longer. So that's a universal requirement, universal human need, intellectual well-being. Then there is also relational, interpersonal well-being. The number one predictor of happiness is quality time we spend with people we care about and who care about us. And I want to elaborate on this because this is so important. done at Harvard starting in the 1930s, where for 75 years, the researchers and the researchers, intellectual children and grandchildren followed a group of students as well as community members for 75 years. So for most of them, it was for the rest of their lives. And they studied them in

depth and they studied their environment and they studied their physiology, you name it, they got the data. And after 75 years, they asked a very simple question, which was, what is the number one predictor of happiness? So we have millions and millions of data points. Let's extract the number one predictor of happiness. What they found was that it was relationships. Now, the interesting thing is that it didn't matter what kind of relationships, meaning for some it was relationships. Now, the interesting thing is that it didn't matter what kind of relationships. Meaning for some, it was romantic relationships. For others, it was a relationship with their friends. For others, it was extended family.

For some, it was professional relationships. It didn't matter. But people who had close, intimate, real, deep relationships, these were the happiest people around. They asked the second question then, what is the number one predictor of physical health? Now, there are many predictors of physical health. It's nutrition, it's physical exercise, of course. But the number one predictor over a lifespan turned out to be, once again, relationships. Quality time you spend with people you care about

and who care about you. So relationships, of course, matter for happiness. And they matter whether you're in Africa or Europe, Asia or Americas. They matter a great deal. And then the last element of happiness is emotional well-being. This is the ability to deal with painful emotions as well as cultivate pleasurable emotions, whether it's joy, excitement, gratitude, or love. So these five elements, spiritual well-being, physical well-being, intellectual well-being, relational well-being, and finally emotional well-being, these are the elements that universally have been shown to make up a happy life. Now, for ease of remembering, these also spell the word SPIRE, spiritual,

physical, intellectual, relational, and emotional. I've become a big fan of acronyms. I think that's a result of 20 years in the United States. And are there, in the same way you've got those foundations, have you got any kind of common detractors from happiness? Yes. So, you know, you can look at each one of these spire elements and find the detractor from it. So, for example, let's take relational well-being. Again, the number one predictor of happiness. One of the greatest distractors in today's world is the fact that we no longer situate relationships as a priority, or at least most people in the modern world do not. So we have other things that take the place. And I don't mean that in terms of

the words that we utter, because if you ask most people, you know, what, who are the most important things or what are the most important things in your life, they would say, you know, my friends, my family, and so on. But de facto in practice, people are spending less and less quality time with people they love and who love them. And when I say quality time, I mean, first of all, in terms of actual time. So they would spend more time, say, at work than they would with their families. But it's not just where they spend their time, it's how they spend their time. Because very often you see today, you know, children as well as adults in a restaurant or, you know, around a table while looking at their smartphones, not engaging with one another. Virtual relationships are really taking the place of real relationships.

You know, it reminds me recently I was invited by a bank to give a talk in Latin America. It's a large bank and they operate in many of the Latin American countries. And they asked me to go to each of those six countries and lecture there. And before I went there, they said, look, and we also want you to run a study on happiness in Latin America. And I asked them, so what's my budget for the study? And they said to me, unlimited. And I said, no, you shouldn't say that to an academic that he has unlimited budget for research. They said, no, no, it's unlimited. So I said, fine, you asked for it. So I ran a study there looking at the happiness levels in Latin America. And because I had unlimited budget,

my control group was the rest of the world. In other words, I compared the levels of happiness in Latin America to the rest of the world. And what we found was very interesting. What we found was that, first of all, Latin America is the happiest region in the world. No big surprise. We actually knew that before. But then we also divided up our population into age groups. So we spliced it up into three age groups, specifically 18 to 34, 35 to 54, and then 55-year-olds and up. And what we found was that, yes, Latin America was the

happiest region in the world. However, it was thanks to the older generation. Meaning when we looked at the 18 to 34 year olds in Latin America, they were actually no happier than 18 to 34 year olds in Europe or Asia. And the reason is that in Latin America, the older generation focuses a great deal on relationships. Now, it's not that the younger generation doesn't value relationships. When we ask them to evaluate the importance of relationships, they evaluate it just as important as the older generation. However, the younger generation, again, de facto, spent much more time on social media at the expense of real face-to-face interactions. And they paid a price. On a national level, the happiest countries in the world are countries where relationships are a priority, not just in words, also in deeds. Denmark, for example, among the happiest countries

in the world, 93% of their population are members of social clubs, active members of social clubs, more than any other country in the world. It's when relationships are a priority that we enjoy higher levels of happiness. When it's not, we pay a price. That's absolutely fascinating. And on that, one of the things you mentioned in there was smartphones and obviously technology and technology's impact on our kind of well-being across the board comes up all the time. How do you see technology as a whole and its role in happiness or lack thereof? Yeah, good. So I'm glad you asked as a whole because we do need to look at the whole of technology. Technology sometimes is great.

I mean, even the fact that we're chatting now and people are listening, that's thanks to technology. Technology brings people together. You know, recently I met my best friend from the time we were 12 years old. Our parents moved countries and we hadn't seen each other for almost 40 years. We just met thanks to technology. My sister met her amazing husband thanks to technology. You know, they were one of the first technology couples from one of the dating sites. You know, they've been married for 18 years. So great things can happen through technology if, and again, I go back to Aristotle now,

if we do it in moderation. If we're other than it controlling us, abusing us, we control it, use it. And we are being abused by technology. The number one addiction in today's world is addiction to one form or other of technology. Specifically, it's three things. So one, it's social media, gaming, or pornography. These are real addictions that many people are suffering from around the world. Now, most of us have some form of addiction to technology, specifically to the smartphone. You know, there was a research done by Jean Twenge. She's a professor at a university in San Diego. And every five years in the United States, they look at the mental health levels of teenagers. And every five years, they find that it goes up or down,

you know, 1%, 2%, but essentially around the same level across time. Well, when Jean Twenge and her colleagues looked at the data now, just recently, what they found compared to five years ago, was that among teenagers, this is in the United States, unfortunately, we see similar studies in the UK and around the world. What she found was that levels of depression among teenagers over five years went up by over 30%. Additionally, suicide rates went up by over 30%. Now, this is unheard of. We had never seen such a spike, such a tragic spike in terms of depression and suicide rates. When she combed through the data and asked why, she came up with one conclusion. In her words, I quote, it's the ascendance of the smartphone. In other words, it's when the smartphone became a central part of teenagers' lives. Now, teenagers are becoming more and more addicted to it, as do adults. You know, I often, when I speak to

couples, I ask them a question and I say to them, I'm going to ask you a question, but I don't want you to answer it. Just think about the answer in your mind. And the question is, when you wake up in the morning, what is the first thing that you turn to. Now, the answer for the overwhelming majority of couples is not to my wonderful, lovely, beautiful partner. Usually, the answer is to the smartphone, to check whether I have new messages, to check the news. Has the world come to an end or is there something that I should, must know right now? That's what they turn to. Now, we're addicted to it quite literally, by the way. If you look at the neural pathways in the brain, they look the same way as an addiction looks to anything else, whether it's alcohol or drugs or gambling.

So we're addicted to this phone and yet we have it right next to us when we wake up in the morning. Now, let's say an alcoholic who wants to get rid of their alcoholism. Would they have a bottle of whiskey or vodka right next to them, next to their bed when they wake up? No, they wouldn't. They would keep it as far away from them as possible. Many of them wouldn't even bring it into their house. In AA, Alcoholic Anonymous, they talk about don't bring enemies home. And yet we have our smartphone right next to us and we shouldn't. We should create boundaries, clear boundaries in our lives so that we can use technology rather than be abused by it.

You know, in our home, for example. So yes, when we go to bed, the phones are away. We have a basket where everyone puts their phone. And some of us also put our computers there. So we're not pulled by them first thing when we wake up in the morning. We have hours that are technology free. For example, when we are around the table and eating, We have days when we're off technology. It's important to set these boundaries. And by the way, many of the leading practitioners and managers from Silicon Valley do the same thing because they understand that while technology can be great, it can enable a lot of things, it can also hurt us. We need to learn to control it better.

And one of the other things I was curious about as well, and it's something that you read about a lot alongside things like technology, is the impact of sort of success and wealth as well on happiness and how there's really a ceiling there. I think especially in the modern world, and you talk about it in your book, Happier, about the kind of rat race and the impact of wealth as well. But we have this, you know, idea of when I achieve this at work, and when I can buy this, I'll be happy, you know, when I can get this new house, or, you know, I'm going to aspire to have a sports car, and then I'll be happy. And these kind of really evident signs of wealth. But it's not necessarily true that they actually create happiness. Is that correct? Yeah, it's absolutely not true that they actually create happiness. Is that correct?

Yeah, it's absolutely not true that they create happiness. Now, the first thing to recognize is the fact that, you know, money does matter to happiness in terms of providing for our basic needs. You know, so if you have a person who doesn't have enough food or enough money for food or for shelter and other basic needs, and you give them an extra thousand dollars, euro, quid a month, then yes, of course, they'll be happier because they received additional money. However, once basic needs are met, and I mean basic, additional money doesn't contribute to happiness. However, most people around the world still are obsessed with material wealth and really believe that the path to happiness is through this next thing. And as you said, whether it's this new car or this new house or this new achievement, and this is part of a much larger mistake that people make, and that is that they connect success to happiness or rather how they connect success to happiness. The cause, happiness, the effect. This is how most people live their lives, whether explicitly or implicitly, whether consciously or subconsciously.

This is how most parents raise their children. You know, when you ask parents, what's the most important thing for you as a parent, for your children, they would say happiness. But in fact, the way they steer their children, the incentives that they give them, where they push and where they pull is when it comes to success. And we pay a high price for it. And let me give you an extreme example. We look at the most successful people in the world. Now, what is a very common scenario? So this person, let's say person X starts their life and they're pretty unhappy

as children, as teenagers, but they tell themselves, when I make it, when I become, say, a rock star, then I'll be happy. And they continue being unhappy and they continue to try making it and they don't. And they're unhappy. However, they're sustained by the belief that when they make it, then they'll be happy. And then let's say at the age of 25, 30, they make it big. Overnight, they become famous. Overnight, they become incredibly wealthy. Suddenly, they can buy just about anything that they want, The big house, the amazing car. Suddenly they are desired by so many people. They can have basically any man or woman they want. They are revered. They're admired. They feel amazing. They're finally happy for a while because then six months go by, a year or two go by, and they go back to where they were before, as unhappy as they were before. Only this time, it's different. Because at least

in the past, they had the hope, illusion, but hope, that when they would become wealthy, successful, admired, then they'll be happy. They don't even have that illusion, that hope. And you know what the difference is between sadness and depression? The difference between sadness and depression is that depression is sadness without hope. So they're depressed now, and they have nowhere to go, nowhere to look. They say to themselves, wait a minute, you know, I can't find happiness in reality. So it must exist outside of reality. Now, how do you exit reality? Well, one way is through alcohol.

Another way is through drugs. The ultimate way of exiting reality is suicide. And this is why you find so many very successful individuals who seemingly have it all, who go for alcohol, who become addicted to drugs, and who commit suicide. Because they haven't been able to find what very often is right in front of them, a happier and more fulfilling life, because they're looking in the wrong place. They're looking for it in success. It's not there. Where happiness resides is when we cultivate healthy relationships, not perfect, healthy relationships with people we care about and who care about us. It's when we cultivate pleasurable emotions like gratitude, like curiosity. It's when we learn and grow. It's when we find something that is meaningful and important to us. It's when we give, when we contribute. These are the pillars

of happiness, not success. Do you think that we have especially high expectations for our life in the kind of world that we live in today? that's one of the things I always wonder and I'm sure social media and and the kind of online world that we have plays a part in that because we can constantly see other people's lives but we have this incredibly high expectations as you said which I really like just then about how kind of it's not about perfect relationships it's healthy relationships but we sort of feel like we should have perfect relationships and perfect children and perfect jobs and, you know, perfect this and perfect that. And it feels quite elusive and impossible. Yes. You know, I'm glad you asked this question because it's very personal to me. You know,

if people ask me, so how has your understanding of happiness changed over the last two, three decades since you started studying this field? And I'd say the main thing that has changed over these years revolves around expectations. When I was younger, I thought that one of the most important elements of a happy life is having high expectations because we're constantly told, you know, have high expectations or great expectations and you will actually reach higher, aim for the stars and you'll at the very least reach the moon. So high expectations was very much part of my upbringing. And today, I understand that it's much more nuanced than that. Yes, having high expectations about success, you know, if you're a football player, and you have high expectations,

you are more likely to succeed. If you're a business person, and you have high expectations, you are more likely to succeed. If you're a business person, and you have high expectations, you know, your business, you are more likely to succeed. So when it comes to success, having high expectations is important. When it comes to happiness, that's not necessarily the case. So as you point out, if you go into a relationship, and your expectation is the movie's expectation, meaning that you will live happily ever after. You're in for real disappointment because every relationship, no exception, goes over time. That is, I'm not talking honeymoon period here. I'm not talking the first month or even the first three years. But over time, every relationship, no matter how amazing it is, will experience its ups as well

as its downs. Every life, no matter how amazing it is, will experience its ups as well as its downs. You know, it reminds me when I started to teach a class on positive psychology, the science of happiness. I was having lunch in one of the undergraduate dorms at Harvard, Leverett House, and a student came over and said, may I join you for lunch? And I said, sure. So he sits down and he says to me, Tal, I hear you're teaching a class on happiness. And I said, yeah, positive psychology. And he said, you know, my roommates are in your class. And I said, that's great. And then he said to me the following, he said, but you know, Tal, now that you're teaching this class, you've got to watch out. And I said, what? And he said, Tal, you've got to be careful. And I said, why? And he said, because if I see you

unhappy, I'll tell my roommates. And you know, the following day when I went to class, I addressed my students and I told them, you know, the last thing in the world that I want you to think is that I'm always happy or that you, by the end of the semester, will experience a constant high because there are only two kinds of people who do not experience painful emotions, such as sadness or anger or frustration or anxiety. There are only two kinds of people who do not experience painful emotions. They are the psychopaths and the dead. So if you experience painful emotions, it's actually a good sign. It means you're not a psychopath and you're alive. The problem in today's world, and you pointed that out,

is that what we're exposed to, and again, this is mostly through social media, we're exposed to people who enjoy the perfect job, who have the perfect family on the perfect vacation, that everything is great. Everyone is doing great except for me. And when I see that, I don't want to ruin the party. I don't want to be the only one to appear to not be having a great time. So I put on the same pictures.

I put on the same pictures. I put on the same facade. And it's this great deception that is leading to the great depression of our time. It's very difficult to enjoy a full and fulfilling life. It's very difficult to be happy when our expectations are that a good life is a life that is exempt from painful emotions. Now, there's a lot of research showing that. There's also a lot of very smart people who talked about the importance of embracing painful emotions. One of them is the Sufi poet Rumi, who around 800 years ago wrote a poem by the name of The Guest House. And in The Guest House, he writes about the importance of inviting in all thoughts, all emotions as our guests and embracing them, not rejecting them.

And this wisdom from 800 years ago is the wisdom to live by today, embracing, accepting painful emotions. We don't need to like them. We don't need to like experiencing envy or sadness or anxiety. However, we need to embrace them, learn to live with them because they're part and parcel of every life, including a happy life. I absolutely love that. I think it's so true. I just looked up the poem as you were saying it, and it's got a beautiful end. It says, be grateful for whatever comes, because each has been sent as a guide from beyond. And it's so true. I think happiness is a real challenge in the sense that you feel almost like you're failing if you're not happy all day,

every day, and it's an impossible expectation. know as you do start to look at applying some of the concepts we've spoken about to your life how do you start to apply it to every day like are there kind of key practices key pillars of a mindset that you think really have that big repercussion to start reframing those five pillars of happiness yes So a very important part of the science of happiness is, so what do we do with it? Meaning what are the tools and techniques that we can apply? And psychologists like Sonia Lubomirsky, like Barbara Fredrickson, like Marty Seligman have really looked at what we can do day to day to become happier. Some of the things that we know work are straightforward things like exercise regularly. So exercising for 30 minutes,

three times a week, and it could be jogging or walking or swimming or dancing. Doing these things 30 minutes, three times a week has the same effect on our psychological well-being as our most powerful psychiatric medication. So that's under physical well-being. Under spiritual well-being, that would be meditating. So regular meditation, again, even five minutes or 10 times a day of mindfully engaging, whether it's focusing on the breath or listening to music or praying or doing yoga. You know, as little as 10 minutes a day can go a long way in terms of our spiritual well-being. In terms of intellectual well-being, learning new things, you know, whether it's, you know, watching a lecture online or reading or going out for a walk in nature and exploring or learning a new dance move, which engages the mind and helps us to learn. So any form of learning on a regular basis is

important in terms of relationships, spending quality time when the phone is off and we're just with the person we care about and who cares about us. And if it has to be online because we're in quarantine or can't meet with someone face-to-face, then let it be online, but be fully engaged, present with that person. That's relational well-being. And when it comes to emotional well-being, a very simple exercise such as writing down things for which we're grateful, expressing gratitude on a regular basis. We do it as a family going around the table once a week. And each one, kids and adults, says one thing that they're grateful for or that was fun for them during the week.

Or writing these things down. That can go a long way in terms of our physical health and mental health. And the foundation of it all, as you pointed out, is expectation, giving ourselves the permission to be human, to experience the full range of human emotions. Now, how do we do that? By talking to people about how we feel. It could be our best friend, it could be a therapist or a coach, our partner, or by writing about it. So keeping a journal, writing about our difficult experiences, especially can go a long way in alleviating, in helping us deal with anxiety or sadness or other painful emotions that are a natural part of every life.

Amazing. And just to close, will you tell us a little bit more about the Happiness Academy and what drove you to set it up and what you're aiming to do with it? Yes. So our goal was to create a rigorous evidence-based discipline of happiness. And what we do towards that end is that we offer a certificate program. It's a year-long certificate program. We also offer programs for schools, first grade to 12th grade. We're also offering workshops to the general public and they aim their office to introduce people to this field for two reasons. One, so that they can become happier. Two, is so that they can help others become happier. Sounds incredibly sensible. It's funny, it's almost one of those things where

it feels like we don't take happiness seriously to some extent. I was thinking about it, if you were going off to university and someone said, what are you going to study? And you said, I'm studying happiness. They see it as something kind of woo-woo, whereas if you said, oh, I'm studying happiness. You know, they see it as something kind of woo-woo, whereas if you said, oh, I'm studying biology or I'm studying psychology, you know, have such a positive response. And I think it is really interesting to think about reframing that because it feels more needed than ever right now. Yes. And if you ask that individual who goes to study biology or psychology or business, why are we going to study that field? They will say something because, you know, I want to then work in this field. And then you ask them, why do you want to work in this field? They'll say, because, you know, I enjoy it or because I want to make money.

And when you ask enough whys, they will ultimately say, because I want to be happy. So the ultimate reason why we go and study anything or in fact do anything is that we want to increase happiness for ourselves or for people we care about. Well, why not study happiness if that is a straight and direct route to becoming happier? So studying happiness can contribute to the teacher's work, to parents' work, to a business person's work, as well as to the doctor's. It has practical implications to any and all disciplines, and it gets us closer to what I've come to call life's ultimate currency, the currency of happiness.

Absolutely. Well, thank you. Honestly, I can't thank you enough for sharing everything today. I think it's been, yeah, I found it absolutely fascinating, incredibly life affirming and just all around brilliant. I'll put all the details of the Happiness Academy in the show notes for everyone who wants to learn more. And Tal's book, Happier, is also absolutely brilliant as well. But thank you so, so, so much for your time today. We really, really appreciate it. Thank you. We'll be back again next Tuesday. But thank you so, so, so much for your time today. We really, really appreciate it.

Thank you. We'll be back again next Tuesday. Have a lovely week, everyone. Thanks so much. Bye. You're a podcast listener, and this is a podcast ad heard only in Canada. Reach great Canadian listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn ads.

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