The Wellness Scoop - The Skincare Edition

Episode Date: February 12, 2019

Acne, blackheads, white heads, cleansing, double-cleansing, exfoliating, hormones, period related breakouts, how our lifestyles choices affect our skin and so much more. This week Ella talks to author and Harley Street dermatologist Dr. Anjali Mahto about the do's and don'ts of skin health. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com. Hi, welcome to the Delicious Yellow podcast. And it's just me, Ella Mills, hosting the podcast today. And today we're going to be talking all about skin health which I for one am absolutely obsessed and fascinated by so I'm going to welcome our guest today Anjali Mato who's going to be talking to us all about everything from acne to popping your spots double cleansing and anything and everything in between she's a consultant dermatologist and an absolute go-to master on this subject. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so pleased to be here. My pleasure. So I read your book, as you know, over Christmas, which I loved. And I always knew

that, you know, the beauty industry was huge, you know, as females were obviously constantly being talked to about beauty and standards of beauty and skincare. And, you know, it can be quite overwhelming. But I was quite astonished to read in your book that just the UK beauty market is worth 17 billion pounds. So I wondered if we could just kick off with just a bit of a kind of overview for those of us who don't know that much about it, about what is happening in our skin? How does it work? What are the kind of basics about skincare that we need to know? Yeah, that's really interesting. Actually, you're right. There's one issue where there's not that much information and it's not quite clear how we should be looking after our skin. But the flip

side is social media has created this environment where there is also so much information about skincare, it can be totally overwhelming. And one of the problems is there's so much misinformation about skin. So I think the biggest thing that I would say is your skin is your biggest organ. It's not just there simply to look good and provide your outward aesthetic, but it has so many other functions than that. It's got metabolic functions. It's how you produce your vitamin D. It's got immune functions. So there are immune cells which can make us sort of more predisposed to things like sun damage skin cancer as we age so our skin is such an important organ yeah okay i'd love to start with hormones because we've got a lot of female listeners and you know obviously

our skin is so deeply linked to our hormones and yet i think myself included lots of us are a little bit in the dark actually around how that works. You know, does our period really affect our skin? Why does it affect our skin? What's going on there? Yeah, so for women, we are subject to so much more complex hormonal patterns than men are. It's really unfair. It totally is.

So not only are we dealing with male hormones, so even women have small amounts of male hormones like testosterone we also have oestrogen and progesterone so we have changes and fluctuations in our hormones during our monthly cycles but then also over the course of our lifetime yeah absolutely so i am now 12 weeks pregnant yeah so today is a big day And that was the first thing that happened. Within like two weeks, I had really bad acne on my face. And I was thinking, I think I might be pregnant. And it's interesting, actually, in the first trimester of pregnancy, that is the commonest time for people to find they break out in acne. And then what tends to happen is during your second and third trimester,

your skin will probably improve. Yeah, I'm hoping exactly get that glow. And what is it that causes that? Again, it is hormonal fluctuations. So if we talk about the types of reasons why we get acne, acne is predominantly driven by male hormones. So androgen hormones like testosterone. But even women produce small amounts of these. So if we go back slightly and talk about periods and why a lot of women find that they tend to flare up around the time of their periods. What tends to happen is our levels of male hormones during our monthly cycles tend to be the same. But our female hormone levels tend to fluctuate. So in the first half of our cycle, so day one to day 14, oestrogen is quite heavy. And then day 14 to day 28, progesterone

is quite heavy. And then just before your period is due, you drop levels of estrogen and progesterone, but your testosterone levels stay about the same. So relatively speaking, the ratio of your male hormones tends to be high just before your period is due, which is why a lot of people break out just a couple of days beforehand. Some women also find their skin gets worse from the second half of their cycle onwards and that's because progesterone, which is the heavy hormone during the second half of the cycle, has got effects that are slightly weakly similar to testosterone. So it's having a similar effect so women that are progesterone sensitive

can find their skin can flare up in that second half. It's absolutely fascinating. And then does menopause have anything of itself? It does. So as we approach the menopause, our oestrogen levels fall. So we relatively end up in an oestrogen deficient state. Right. And the same issue, our male hormone levels stay relatively the same.

But at the same time, our female hormones continue to drop. So it's really common to get spots and excessive hair growth. For me, what's so powerful is understanding exactly what's happening in my body. And that's saying, well, it's completely normal to get those spots before my period, which I think myself, like everyone else gets. And actually, that's actually a positive sign that everything in your body is working as it should do. And rather than, I think, because we have such high standards of beauty these days, we have this kind of obsession that one spot is such a negative thing. And it must mean that you're unclean in some capacity.

That's right. I'm so glad you brought that up. Because I think there is this massive issue where we are so obsessed with everything being perfect and filtered. And actually, this idea that acne or spots or blemishes are somehow dirty or unclean or you're lazy and you're not looking after yourself. And they're all such myths. These are normal physiological processes that are going on in the skin that are sometimes causing these breakouts. What is the link, first of all, between spots, acne and our lifestyle? Because as you just said, touching on, there's all this kind of misunderstanding I think about out there. And obviously it's so complex, I can only imagine, and varies a lot from person to person. But are there links between

things like stress, smoking, you know, not taking off your makeup before you go to sleep? Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things with acne, one of the main reasons why people will get spots is actually their own DNA, their own hormones and their genetics. But absolutely, lifestyle factors do have a part to play. So taking off makeup, that's a good one to start with. You know, if you forget to take your makeup off just once in several months, that's not going to be the end of the world. But if you consistently every single night fail to cleanse your skin properly, there is every chance that that makeup is going to block your pores and cause spots and cause acne so it is really important that the skin is cleansed thoroughly before you go to bed at night

same with stress and there's absolutely no doubt that stress will aggravate chronic inflammatory skin conditions so i'm talking about things like acne rosacea eczema psoriasis and i think the medical community has been really bad in actually putting that link together. And I think it's only now that we're recognizing more and more that stress and psychological impacts and mental health issues can very much impact on the way that your skin behaves. Other than that, diet is the other big one. And this is a bit of a controversial thing. What I would say is for the vast majority of people, diet does not have a role to play in acne. But there are a small select group of individuals that are sensitive to dairy and

that are sensitive to sugar. And for those people, actually cutting out those things may actually improve their skin. And dairy is an interesting one because if you look at the clinical trials and the studies, it seems to be that low-fat dairy is more of a problem than full-fat dairy and we don't know why exactly that is but there is this idea that maybe with the low-fat dairy what you're doing is you're removing the fat but actually it's the sugars again yes that are potentially driving it so i don't recommend sort of blanket food restrictions for everybody because it won't work for everybody so it's not a case of one size fits all and that changing your diet will fix your skin I think it's an adjunct to all the other

things that we can do in terms of skincare medical treatments as well as general lifestyle measures yeah 100% I think people are starting to come to that across the board is that there's never for anything a one size fits all or one magic answer and it is really interesting that because I think you see a lot in the media and I think especially on social media it'll be like five reasons your skin's bad swipe up and it's like number one sugar yeah and it creates this kind of complete demonization and I see a lot in terms of our readers and the confusion it creates around it where people are then scared of a banana do you you know, it's frightening because one thing, particularly with acne, is that sufferers already have a higher rate of mental health issues

like anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, low body image, and even suicide and potentially eating disorders. So if you're telling a group of people that already potentially have a risk of mental health issues and eating disorders to then food restrict, you are then potentially driving other further problems so it's something we do need to be really careful about okay so continuing on spots okay this is something i'm always fascinated by okay so we've got like white heads and we've got black heads and we have you know red spots when they're pussy and then you

have the kind of more i always get these just like little lumps onto my skin like kind of bumpies but they never get that pussiness probably a bit bit too much information here. What's the difference? What's going on there? So from a medical point of view, spots and acne mean the same thing. So sometimes in clinic, I find that people get really like, oh my God, you're saying I've got acne. I didn't realize my skin was so bad. But it's just a label that doctors apply to spots. And you could have one spot, you could have 30 spots. We call it acne. Okay.

Then if we look at acne itself, you're absolutely right. There are lots of different forms of acne. Okay. So the primary acne lesion is your blocked pores. So these are your blackheads or your whiteheads. And the medical word for that is comedones. Okay. And they're the tiny little bumps that come up on the skin

surface. And what's the difference between a blackhead and a whitehead? So a blackhead, often you can literally see the black dot. Like the ones on your nose. Yeah, like you can see the dot inside it. Yeah. And people often think that blackheads are a sign of dirt and dirt blocked inside the pore. And that's not the case. Right. Blackheads are basically pores that have become blocked with like oil and sebum and other fatty material and lipids from your skin surface. And then when they come into contact with air, they become oxidized. Right. And that's what makes them look black.

So when people are like vigorously scrubbing their faces, trying to get rid of blackheads, it's not dirt they're removing. It's just oxidation in the skin. Okay. And whiteheads are really essentially open. So you haven't got that kind of clogged oxidized material sitting inside it. So it's the exact same thing, but it hasn't oxidized. That's right. Okay. And then the next step as acne progresses is you can get things like whiteheads or pustules. So these are like your red spots with the little whiteheads or

bumps that if you squeeze them, you'd get white material come out of. And then moving further on as acne progresses further or becomes more severe, you can get things called nodules or cysts. So these are the deeper red bumps underneath the skin surface. So they're the ones that tend to be more painful. They tend to last days to weeks, actually. And they tend never to come to a head. The types of spots, they're red bumps, but if you squeeze them, nothing is going to come out of them. And as they get bigger in size, they can form cysts. And the problem with nodules and cysts

is they can leave scarring. They are the deeper inflammatory spots that we talk about. Okay. And now, why should we not pop our spots? Because obviously, again, you read that everywhere and everyone says,

don't pop your spots. Again, maybe it's too much information, but like who doesn't secretly love just squeezing out their blackheads and things I do yeah one thing I'd say about spot popping yeah is that so if you've got blackheads for example and squeezing blackheads out if it's not done properly yeah what you can end up doing is firstly scarring the skin because you're pressing too hard yeah or secondly if you're not squeezing everything out in one go because your technique isn't good yeah you can end up doing is firstly scarring the skin because you're pressing too hard. Or secondly, if you're not squeezing everything out in one go because your technique isn't good, you can actually end up pushing the contents of that blackhead deeper into the skin surface. And then you're going to get deeper spots, which can then lead to scarring. So the big issue really about spot squeezing is the fact that you may end up with scarring to the skin.

There are estheticians that will do things like extractions. And that's okay. If they're trained professionals that are doing it, and they're very experienced at what they're doing, actually extractions aren't a bad idea. They immediately create a sense of decongestion of your skin. Your skin immediately looks brighter. But you've also gotten rid of that primary lesion that could go on to then develop into nodules or cysts. Yeah. But that's being done by a trained professional.

That's not kind of popping at home. Yeah, no, no. I know. I know it's bad. Yeah. But it's one of those things you do it and you're like, I wonder why this is bad. And that's good to know. Exactly.

Because obviously my at-home technique is seriously flawed. Yeah. And what's interesting about having extractions done is blackheads and whiteheads, so comedones, tend to reform about 20 to 40 days. So you squeeze them out, but they will be back again. So often if you do extractions, you do need to do them about four to six weekly, every couple of weeks, couple of months to really get the best benefit from it. If you just do it as a one-off, it'll clear it, but chances are the blackheads will come back over time. Okay. So you'd recommend if you're going to do it, you go to the professional. Do not sit at home in front of your mirror and squeeze your spots. Okay. That is really, really good to know. Okay. So another question, and actually someone asked

this on social media. So say you've got a big event coming up. Is there anything you can do to clear up a spot? Well, there's a number of things you can try and do. And it kind of does depend on the size of the spot and how much time you've got left as well. The simplest thing, if you have access to a dermatologist, and this is a surefire thing that always works, is if you get a large spot, you can get a dermatologist to inject a steroid injection directly into the bump and it will go down overnight.

Really? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have to be totally honest. I have injected my own big spots before big events and I'm well known to do that. But it's a very kind of common technique that dermatologists will use. So if you've got your wedding or something

and you're feeling subconscious. Yeah, but failing that in terms of things that you can do at home, it is trickier because a lot of these skincare things you would buy over the counter aren't as powerful as drugs available from a doctor. But you're talking about things like tea tree oil or salicylic acid to be placed directly on the spot overnight. And both of those can help reduce the redness and the inflammation from a spot. Okay, so then at that point, hopefully you can also cover it up a little bit more easily. Okay. So moving actually on that segues perfectly to the next section, which is what we buy for skin.

And I'm a sucker for all of this. But there is so, I mean, the amount of beauty products that exist on the market is absolutely extraordinary. And obviously, I always say to people, it's really interesting working in food. Like food labels are really easy to read. Yeah. Because obviously we're also connected to food. So if you read carrot, tomato, you're like, right, clock that, know exactly what those are. And it's really easy to understand what you're buying, what you're making,

you know, reading a recipe or an ingredient that's on the back of a pack. Whereas when you go to buy skincare, lots of it's in Latin, you know, or it's kind of scientific version of a word. And it can actually be something really simple. You know, then it's in brackets afterwards. But the first word you read and you're like, you have no idea whatsoever what you're buying. Yeah. How do you kind of navigate that whole space? Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Actually, I find it fascinating because I there's a lecture I do. And I start that lecture by saying, isn't it funny how we

think so much about what we put into our bodies? Yeah. But we think so little about what we're putting onto our bodies. We don't actually read those chemical labels very well, and we don't necessarily know what we're applying to our skin. So when you're looking at skincare labels in general, the ingredients list is generally labeled with the things in the highest concentration being at the top, and the things in the lowest concentration being at the bottom. So the predominant part of a skincare product will be made up by the first probably three to five ingredients on the list that you read. And generally, if you look at a lot of skincare, it will always contain water as part of it, often labeled as aqua. But other than that, in terms of other ingredients you're

looking for, there will always be preservatives in there somewhere as well. And need preservatives they enhance the shelf life of our products if our skincare our face creams didn't have preservatives we'd have bacteria growing on them within two or three days yeah i listened to you talking i think it was on someone else's podcast you're saying exactly that and i think because we talk a lot about things like preservatives it creates so much fear that's right in in and again it has that kind of blanket approach whereas you said unless you made your own skincare every single day then there's got to be something otherwise it literally will not be able to sit on the shelf preservatives get a bad rep but we absolutely need them in our skincare you know we don't want to be getting skin infections or eye infections or mouth infections so actually i put this someone else the other day about um like what products

and things i like and i said i like to the other day about like what products and things I like, and I said that I like to double cleanse. People were like, what's double cleansing? And someone, when I had this breakout that I was trying to clear up, the lady told me about double cleansing and I swear it's the biggest game changer in my life. Is it real? Double cleansing is a thing. Double cleansing in its most basic term means that you're cleansing your skin twice. And I think that most people will benefit from double cleansing at night time. Oh yeah, don't do it in the morning. It feels a bit like a waste of product.

Yeah, you don't need to. Because if you've taken everything off properly at night, you've only slept, so your skin's not going to be dirty. But the idea behind double cleansing is most women during the day will probably be wearing potentially sunscreen, potentially moisturizer, potentially makeup. And you want to make sure all of that is removed. So it's almost like step one of your routine

is to remove all of that makeup or do a first wash where you superficially get rid of everything. Right. And then your second cleanse, once you've removed the makeup, the dirt, the grime, the sweat, the bugs you've been coming into contact with, the tube,

the second cleanse is to make sure that your skin is squeaky clean, so to speak. So I think double cleansing is a positive, particularly for women that wear makeup or wear cosmetic products during the day or live in a polluted city. Okay, and would you recommend to use two different types of cleansers when you're double cleansing or literally just wash your face twice with the same one? I think it depends on your skin type. I mean, for most people, I think what would work is using something like a micellar water as your first

cleanse to be able to remove your face makeup, your eye makeup, and then a foaming or a non-foaming cleanser as your second. Okay. I mean, that's what I do. Yeah. I think if you wash your face twice with, say, a foaming cleanser, for example, it may dry your skin out too much and it wouldn't be suitable for somebody that's got sensitive skin. people keep talking about oil cleansers yeah and even just like cleansing your face with like an almond oil like a or I can never say it properly like her whole bud yeah you know what I'm trying to say which I've always I find quite fascinating I have tried an oil cleanser once or twice and I found my skin felt a bit oily after I washed it yeah Unless I like really scrubbed it a little bit with a flannel. It's just that kind of sticky residue that's left behind afterwards. I'm not a fan of

oil cleansing, despite the fact that it's kind of gained a lot of popularity over the past few years. And the reason why I'm not a fan is because I think for most people using oil cleansers over a period of time is going to lead to blocked pores. My clinics are full of young women that have got what I would call comedonal or blackhead type acne. And usually if you trace it back, it is related to an oil cleanser. Really? Yeah. I think oil cleansers are suitable for those that have got dry or really dry skin or those who've got mature skin. So they've gone through the menopause. Their skin is significantly drier than it used to be. Then I think it's okay. Yeah. But I think for the vast majority of people be, then I think it's okay. But I

think for the vast majority of people, I don't think it's a fantastic idea. There are better cleansing methods. So we read a lot about all the different layers that we need to put on our skin. What's with all the steps? I mean, I think we need to be healthily sceptical. The beauty market is there to sell to us. And certainly when we go to clinics or beauticians or estheticians, also, if they sell products, you must also remember that those products, there is probably a markup on. So there is a profit being made there. So without being too sceptical, I think we've got into this place where skincare has become so much more complicated than it needs to be. It feels that way. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I think if you look at the basic things of a good skincare routine,

it is important that you cleanse your skin morning and evening. It is a good idea to exfoliate your skin. And when it comes to exfoliation, there are two main types of exfoliation. You've got chemical exfoliation, which uses things like salicylic acid, glycolic acid, lactic acid, ingredients you can find in face washes, for example, which basically slough off the top layer of dead skin cells. So if you get rid of that upper layer of dead skin cells, your skin is going to look brighter. But the other benefit that those acids have is they've got anti-aging benefits in them as well.

They can actually, to some degree, boost collagen production. So you've got a really good multi-purpose ingredient there that's going to chemically exfoliate. It's going to be anti-aging, but also it will brighten the skin and it will fade pigmentation. So I think you can be smart about the ingredients that you pick. You've then got mechanical exfoliation. So mechanical exfoliation is where you're using things like brushes or scrubs or mechanical devices, carisonics, things like that. And if you look at the data, the mechanical sort of exfoliation devices are better for cleaning areas like around the nose. But in terms of is one better than the other, chemical versus mechanical, it's a personal choice, really. One of the problems with mechanical

devices is that people tend to scrub or rub too hard, and you can damage the skin. So personally, I prefer chemical exfoliation because I think that the acids that you can use in chemical exfoliation give you a number of benefits. Okay. We've tried a few masks that have kind of fruit acids and things like that in. And I have to say that I find those make a humongous difference and really help whenever I'm having a breakout or something. They have really, really helped clear up my skin. I agree. So the fruit acids are your alpha hydroxy acids. So that's things like glycolic, lactic, mandelic, and they are really, really good for decongesting the skin. So you're right, if you've had a little bit of a breakout, they can help that. But they will brighten the skin,

they can help fade marking or staining on the skin. So big fan of alpha hydroxy acids. And how often should you exfoliate? So that depends really on your skin type. If you've got normal skin, then chances are that you could probably use a chemical exfoliator as part of your routine or your face wash a couple of times a week without any issues. If you've got very dry skin or sensitive skin, things like glycolic and lactic acid can be irritant. And what you want to go for are a new generation of alpha hydroxy acids called polyhydroxy acids. So there you're looking for ingredients like maltobionic acid or lactobionic acid. And again, maybe a couple of times a week. Are they just a bit gentler? They're a bit gentler and they're more hydrating to the skin as well. So they won't dry your skin out in the same way that a glycolic might do, for example. But if your skin is sensitive, you may not be able to tolerate it

a couple of times a week. So I think a bit of common sense is needed here. Okay, and what about eye cream? Does it work? Oh, yeah. So eye cream is an interesting one. So we all use eye cream as this idea to help fade wrinkles, crow's feet, all of those things. And the first thing I'd say about that is let's look at why those lines around our eyes form. I mean, the skin around your eyes is the thinnest skin on your body. And we blink a lot during the day. So we use the muscle around our eye a heck of a lot, which is why we're prone to getting crow's feet probably from like our mid-20s onwards for most of us. And there isn't really a great deal of evidence that slapping on

loads of eye cream is going to permanently improve crow's feet. I think the most important thing is if you're worried about wrinkles around the eyes, we should think about prevention first. So if you're not using a sunscreen around your eyes, you absolutely should be. Now, there are two types of sunscreen. There are mineral sunscreens and there are chemical sunscreens. Mineral sunscreens contain things like zinc and titanium, whereas chemical sunscreens contain chemicals, things like avobenzone, oxybenzone to block out sunlight. Because the eye area is quite sensitive,

it's probably sensible to use a mineral sunscreen around the eyes. About 80 to 90% of skin ageing is because of sunshine. So if you're worried about wrinkles around the eyes. About 80 to 90% of skin aging is because of sunshine. So if you're worried about wrinkles around the eyes, your step number one really should be putting sunscreen around your eyes before we think about the treatment aspects of what we can do. So if you're doing that already, and then you want to think about active treatments, well, eye creams that contain caffeine or hyaluronic acid, they can temporarily plump up the skin and improve the appearance of wrinkles, but they won't permanently get rid of them. So when it comes to SPFs, there's a lot of stuff you can buy, like even like foundations or kind of like BB creams and things like that. They say they have SPF in them. someone said, okay, we'd need to use 15 times the amount that you'd recommend to use on your face

every day to be able to actually get enough SPF for it to be worth the SPF. Does that make sense? It does. Is that true? That is true, actually. I mean, I wouldn't say 15 times necessarily, but yes, there is an issue with using an SPF in a skincare product versus a separate sunscreen. The first issue is you will never use enough of the skincare product to get the SPF you need. You just have to put too many layers of whatever the cream is. But the second issue is that SPF is only a marker of ultraviolet B protection from sunlight.

And sunlight is made up of multiple wavelengths of light, but UVA and UVB are the two main ones that we're concerned about. And traditionally, we always think about UVA as the aging ray, so A for UVA, A for aging, and UVB as your burning ray. And UVA is longer than UVB. But if SPF is only a marker of UVB, and your foundation or BB cream has got an SPF of 30, that's telling you about its UVB protection, but you're not getting your UVA protection. Right. And that's quite important,

particularly if you're worried about skin ageing. Yeah. So that's another reason why, if that is of a concern to you, it is important to use a separate sunscreen than just rely on the SPF in your skincare. And put that underneath your moisturiser. So I would do cleansing.

Yeah. And then I would moisturise. Yeah. And then I would sunscreen. Okay. And then makeup if you choose to wear it okay so sunscreen actually comes second after moisturizer okay and when it comes to sunscreen first of all some people also say there's no point wearing anything under factor 30 is that true that's that's not really true I think as people we like rules yeah we love rules you know it makes the things easy to follow and it's easy to give advice. So for most people, about an SPF 30

or above will be about right. Yeah. So that's probably where that has come from. Yes. But in actual fact, you know, if you look at somebody of darker skin or skin of colour, for example, I don't need to wear an SPF 30 every day. You know, a 15 is fine for me. You know, the risk of things like skin cancer are much higher in paler skin than they are in darker skin. You know, you don't see melanoma being an issue in Africa or India. The skin is dark. It's protected. The melanin is protective.

But I think as a general rule, 30 is an easy number to go with. You're not going to go wrong with it. So for blanket population, SPF 30 or above is a good idea. Because the summer you can go to the boots or super drug wherever and you see like spf 6 spf 8 and i sometimes look at that and i'm like should you just put on olive oil at that point yeah i mean just roast yeah factors that low if you've got dark skin fine but you know for the general population it's not going to do anything and the second thing is if you're worried about aging you know so one issue with sun is skin and the second thing is if you're worried about aging you know so one issue with sun is skin cancer second issue is aging if you're worried about aging

regardless of dark skin or light skin if you want to preserve what you have must be 30 or above regardless of skin color and time of year i was about to and that was my other question time of year we're having this it's freezing cold today yeah doesn't feel like you're walking around like the sun is anywhere near you feels like it's miles and miles and thousands of miles away but do we still need the spf so this is an interesting question because at this time of year certainly in the uk our latitude is so far north that we get very little ultraviolet B radiation. So the burning radiation, it's just not there. But UVA is still the same. So it's the same.

Sorry, it's the same today than it is on, say, like the 10th of August. So UVA is pretty consistent throughout the year, whereas UVB will drop over the winter months because of our latitude. If you are worried about skin aging, if you work outdoors, if you do sport outside, it probably is a good idea to be wearing sunscreen. If on the other hand, you're somebody that like goes to work in the dark, you sit in an office all day, and then you go home in the dark at this time of year, to be totally honest, there's probably no benefit unless you're slightly worried about getting wrinkles. You know, that would be the only reason there in terms of benefit okay so then the other thing we wanted to talk about was lifestyle and we we've touched on elements of that already yeah but one thing that we haven't

talked about is sleep yeah i'm fascinated by sleep at the moment in general but it seems so connected to every part of our body it is and i know you know for me definitely like if i don't sleep so much i feel like my skin doesn't look as good. But sometimes I wonder whether that's just placebo and you're just tired, so you don't have such a positive outlook. Yeah. Firstly, there are studies that show that if you show people photos of people that are tired, that have been sleep deprived, people do rate them actually, interestingly, as less attractive, because their face does look different. Really? Second thing is, what's really interesting, what we found out over the past 10 to 15 years now, is that our body and our body cells have got circadian rhythms or 24 hour cycles or night day cycles.

But every one of our skin cells also has a 24 hour rhythm. And our skin cells are working differently during the morning than they are at nighttime when we go to bed. So this concept of like needing beauty sleep or making sure that you get enough sleep for your skin, there is something in that because nighttime is actually where your skin cells are going into repair and regeneration. And that's when your skin cells are turning over. So from a practical point of view, nighttime is a good time to be using active ingredients that can be sort of incorporated in the fact your cells are turning over very, very quickly. So there's a lot to be said about that. Okay, that's really interesting. How about exercise and sweat and spots? Yeah,

so ideally, again, in a perfect scenario, it would be great to wipe all your makeup off before you do start exercising. The problem is in actual practicality and real life is if you have got spots, it's normal to want to conceal them. Yes. You know, rather than have them out. So if you're confident enough to do so, great. The ideal situation would be take your makeup off. But if you can't do it, don't beat yourself up about it.

What I would say, though, is that I see a lot of women in particular that wear sports bras and they train a lot and they are prone to getting spots on their chest and their back yes underneath their sports bras and i think there's a few things i'd say that can help that the first thing is make sure that you shower immediately after exercise there is this tendency to kind of sit around in your gym kit and have a coffee or have a juice and then 20 minutes half an hour later maybe walk home and shower. If you're sitting against your sweat and your body temperature has gone up, so it's heat and then occlusion and then sweat on top of that, that is going to block your pores. That is going to create spots. If it's completely impossible

to shower immediately after you've exercised, the next best thing actually is to carry things like salicylic acid face wipes or pads that you can use to clean the skin so you can just quickly wipe down okay with these acids and what it will do is at least it will wipe the sweat away and decongest the skin where you've used it and then the other question that i had on lifestyle was alcohol because that's another thing people talk about a lot is there a link i mean not saying between like one glass of wine but you know if you go out again but maybe that's also again connected to sleep and things like that, because perhaps you're going to bed at 3am. The alcohol thing is quite difficult to tease out, partly because

if you drink a lot of alcohol, it is going to mess with your sleep-wake cycle. You're more likely to make poorer dietary choices potentially as well. So it's quite hard to figure out whether it's the lack of sleep, or it's the diet, or it's the alcohol itself, or it's an interaction of all three. But if you drink alcohol heavily and consistently over a long period of time, it will deplete your body of important nutrients. So things like vitamin A, vitamin B, vitamin C, zinc, and all of those are integral to really good and normal functioning skin health and collagen production.

So there is no doubt that if you drink over long periods of time and excessively, that is going to have a knock-on effect on your skin. Okay, so now you just gave me a buzzword, which is going to go on to a few myths I want to ask you about collagen. Yes. Okay. I feel, and especially in the US, there is an obsession with collagen at the moment. If I'm honest, it grosses me out a little bit, just freaks me out as a concept.

Then I keep seeing like collagen bars and collagen lattes and what's going on there? Is there any basis or is it just a bit nuts? Yeah. So, I mean, collagen has become such a marketing buzzword as well. So, collagen essentially is found in our bodies. It is the main structural protein of our skin. So collagen is what gives our skin its strength. And from our mid-20s onwards, we start to lose 1% of our collagen per year. And that's what contributes to skin aging. But what we're talking about here is taking supplemental collagen. So collagen tablets, collagen drinks.

The idea being that if you eat or drink the collagen, it's somehow miraculously going to end up in your skin. Couple of issues that I found with that. The first thing is there are so many different types of collagen. The skin is mainly made up of type 1 and type 3 collagen. Your joints and your cartilage are made up of type 2 and type 4. I've seen certain supplements being advertised for skin that aren't even the right skin collagen. So that rings alarm bells immediately. The second thing is collagen is a protein. So it's no different to eating a piece of meat or a protein heavy meal. That piece of

protein or collagen supplement is going to get broken down into its constituent components or amino acids yeah and there's no way of guaranteeing that those amino acids are going to travel in your bloodstream from your gut and somehow in your skin it just doesn't work like that personally i think that as long as your diet is good and you're getting adequate protein in your diet i don't think you need to be spending a great amount of money on collagen supplements. Okay, so then one of the other questions is sort of puffiness. It's like waking up just feeling like around your eyes are a bit puffy. Yeah. Is there anything we can do that one things you see a lot again, the kind of jade rollers? Yeah. And those sort of, you know, things you wipe up and down your skin. And that's, again, meant to be kind of good for de-puffing.

Yeah. Is there anything in that? If you've got puffiness around your eyes, a lot of it will be genetic. So if your parents have got them, you're going to be at higher risk of having that. And some of it can be due to fluid pooling around the eye area. Some of it can actually just be eye bags developing as we age. And for some people, that is how their skin ages. So there's a couple of things you can try and do. So one of them again is using caffeine-based creams. For a period, what they can do is they can shrink down the blood vessels and supply to that area. So it'll make the area less puffy looking.

But it's an aesthetic fix rather than a permanent fix. Jade rollers, I don't think are the be-all and end-all of anti-aging. But I think that, you know, if they have positive mental health benefits, you feel relaxed doing them, and the area does look puffy, and you try and, you know, essentially flatten that out with a roller, that's okay too. It's not going to cause any issues. But none of them are going to be permanent fixes or solutions. The third thing is a lot of it happens overnight whilst we're sleeping and we're lying flat because everything kind of pulls backwards and drain backwards. So you could sleep propping yourself up quite high.

So you're not lying flat when you sleep. You sleep on a lot of pillows. That may help as well. Okay. But generally, eye puffiness, creams aren't really going to fix it. One question I forgot to ask under live soil, which you just reminded me of, is coffee. Yep. Is there a link between coffee and skin?

Because that's another question that we've had a lot of, and I think people do get confused by. Yeah, and I think, again, so firstly firstly we're looking at topical caffeine versus yes I'm talking about your latte okay so what I would say is and I always say this about food and drink in general when it comes to skin if you drink lots and lots of caffeine that's not good for your general health yes and if it's not good for your general health the knock-on effect is it's not going to be good for your skin health either. With skin and food and drink, there isn't like a superfood for skin or a bad food for skin.

It's about moderation. You know, if you're drinking like 10 cups of coffee a day, that's clearly not good for you, you know, if you know what I mean. You have the odd coffee here and there during the week. That's absolutely fine. But food and drink mustn't be taken in isolation. You know, our skin doesn't work in isolation. it works with all the other organs in our body and there's no way you can eat for good skin eating for good skin is eating for good health yes and that's a really

nice way of looking at it which is like so i guess it's trying to get your fiber day trying to get your fiber to get your protein your omega-3s your good fats absolutely a good balanced diet and as you said but then doing it in a way that you enjoy so that has moderation in it but anything that's you know anything that we know isn't great for us that you have too much of isn't going to then have a good knock-on effect on your skin that's right that's come up in every single episode is exactly that is like there's no magic answer feeling good being happy and healthy is a question of kind of moderation, doing what you love, but also taking care of yourself. And on that last question, and I guess a slightly more serious question, is checking moles. And what are the kind of

key signs that we should be looking for? The reason we worry about them is moles can change and they can turn into a form of skin cancer known as melanoma. And melanoma is potentially a fatal skin cancer. It is one that can spread to other organs of the body and it can kill you. So it's quite serious. Yeah. So if we're talking about the things that we need to be looking for, you're looking for a mole that suddenly changes in its size, its shape or its colour. Okay. Or a mole that looks completely different to the rest of the moles on your body. So if all of your moles are like a light brown color, and you suddenly get this bright red or bright pink thing or bright black thing,

and you haven't seen it before, it just doesn't look like the rest of you, that should be an alarm sign as well. If you're somebody that's used sunbeds, if you've enjoyed sunny holidays, if you've been sunburnt. So if you've been sunburnt. So if you've been sunburnt more than five times before the age of 18, it can double your lifetime risk of getting melanoma. Really? You know, your skin is very pale, you work outside, all of those are potential risk factors. So, you know, it's a good idea, maybe once a month, after you've had your bath or your shower,

going to a full length mirror, and actually just getting used to where your marks and your blemishes are. Yeah. The first time you do it, it feels a bit weird. But after a while, you actually do learn where your marks are. Yeah. And then if something new were to come up,

you would probably notice it. Yeah, and then you can just go and see your doctor. Yeah, absolutely. And I think with moles, we shouldn't mess about. You know, if anything changes or it's not going away or you've got a sore that's not healing, it should be looked at. Okay, brilliant.

Okay, so with all our guests, we end with one question, which is something that you do every day, whether it's a saying, a kind of mantra, a practice that just keeps you happy, healthy. Well, this sounds a bit silly, but like my husband has a habit of sending me like cute animal videos or stupid videos on YouTube. And I quite enjoy watching those because it makes me laugh.

Yeah. And that's quite a nice way because he wakes up before me normally in the mornings. I know one of the things I'll have when I wake up first thing is I've been sent a direct message of something that I should look at, which I know is going to make me laugh. That's quite a nice way to start the day. That's really nice.

Exactly. You start the day on a really positive note. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming today. That is, I mean, absolutely fascinating and just so appreciate you sharing all your wisdom with us. And we will be back again next Tuesday. As always, if you enjoyed the episode, please do take a second to share it with your friends, to rate it, review it. It makes all the difference. And otherwise, have a lovely, lovely day. Bye. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn ads. Email bob at libsyn.com to learn more. That's B-O-B at L-I-B-S-Y-N dot com.