The Wellness Scoop - The Stress Cure, Castor Oil & Social Media Bans

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

Could a single daily conversation be the easiest way to lower stress? New research shows that meaningful social interactions can significantly boost well-being—we break down why this simple habit matters. The longevity debate is shifting, with studies suggesting eating less protein may help you live longer. But is cutting back really the key? We explore the science behind Blue Zones, protein myths, and what actually works. Social media is under fire as Chris Whitty reviews a potential ban for under-16s on platforms like Instagram and TikTok. Is this a smart move for mental health or an overreach? Plus, castor oil packs and navel pulling are trending as detox remedies—but do they actually work? We separate fact from fiction on this ancient practice making a modern comeback. And if you're looking for free ways to check your gut health, we've got simple, science-backed methods to assess digestion—no pricey tests required. Recommendations This Week: Plates, the UK's first Michelin star plant-based restaurant Toxic Town, Ella's TV recommendation Bird Feeders, a simple way to enjoy bringing nature to you Roasted beans, lentils and pulses - super tasty and make for great salad toppers Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The truth is, no one does it alone. And why would you want to? We all need someone to make us believe. Hashtag, you got this. I'm going back to university for $0 delivery fee, up to 5% off orders and 5% Uber credits back on rides. Not whatever you think university is for. Get Uber One for students.

With deals this good, everyone wants to be a student. Join for weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. And we are your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. So that's why we created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple, fun and personal. And welcome to the show guys. Thank you so much for listening. We have also

loved your feedback on the first two episodes of the Extra Scoop, which if you haven't listened yet are our short expert-led episodes that just give you the need to know about those topics everyone's talking about. Maybe you heard colleagues talking about it over lunch, you saw it in the newspaper, we're just giving you quick, almost like TED Talk style overviews,

and we've done one so far on how to be happy and your happiness hormones and bloating, which I have to say, I feel like everyone needs to listen to the bloating episode. It just is so reassuring and normalises bodily functions in a way that I think we desperately need in the world today. And we've also just released our Extra Scoop with Maisie Hill on Period. So all things women's health. And I really loved that conversation we had. So your feedback on the Extra Scoops guys is amazing. We've also been overwhelmed by the feedback on the Extra Scoops guys is amazing.

We've also been overwhelmed by the feedback for the live show haven't we? We have yes tickets are coming very very soon but again just to remind you if you didn't hear on last week's episode we are going to do an in-person big event, a talk, there'll be a Q&A, a big deep dive into ultra processed foods which is obviously the topic of Ree's new book which is so exciting and it's going to be on the 14th of June. So we will let you know as soon as tickets are live, but we cannot wait to see you guys there. Yeah, we absolutely will.

And all of the feedback, we have been discussing Ella and I, a way of getting the online community together. And we're actually having a meeting after this podcast to discuss how we can do this, because honestly, we feel like we're in this together, don't we? We are totally all on the same page with how crazy this space is.

Yeah, certainly in my career, I've never seen feedback like we're getting for the wellness group and this sense of reassurance but inspiration, which is everything we wanted to do is strike that middle ground between inspiring and empowering you and reminding you in a kind of friendly gentle way every week that your little habits matter, but while also just cutting through and getting rid of the unrealistic pressure and noise and the fact that this is just genuinely making a difference to your life. It's making such a difference to our lives. I feel so motivated for life at the moment. And as Ree said, I think we're really keen to take that further so if you guys also have any thoughts on it please let us know maybe that's a sub stack is a

broadcast group is it a whatsapp group it could be all sorts of things but if you guys have any thoughts requests ideas please let us know and make sure it's something that's accessible to you all so if you're saying I don't want this to be just on Instagram or I want it to be you know on an internet page somewhere just let us know and I have a quote Ella it was the one we were looking for from Millie Bobby Brown last week and she said and I thought this was just amazing go her I refuse to make myself smaller to fit the unrealistic expectations of people who can't handle seeing a girl become a woman.

She's amazing. It's so inspiring. I saw it all over socials last week and again, if you haven't listened last week, we were talking about the size zero debate and the resurgence of that, a lot of that linked to Azempig and the various different weight loss drugs that are very much making their way around the celebrity circuit at the moment, as far as we all understand. And she's really fighting back against it. And it's just a very, very interesting conversation. If you didn't listen last week, I highly recommend it. But as always, so much coming up this week. I think this may be the most we've tried to pack into a show. Reed, can you do us the

honours and tell the listeners what's coming up today? I would do the long one, wouldn't I? Okay, okay. Right, here we go, everyone. We've got the one daily habit that can lower stress and boost well-being. The longevity debate, so should we be eating less protein? Gosh, it's changing all the time. Social media bans for under 16 is the necessary thing to do,

or is it an overreach? Castor oil packs and navel pulling. Do they really work? Free and simple ways to check your gut health at home. The ozone therapy trend and why experts are skeptical. The latest research on plant oils versus butter for heart health. The impact of blood donation on longevity and disease prevention. And this week's top wellness recommendations of of course, and our listener question at the end, we're covering CMOS and gut health myths.

Right, so before we get into this chunky episode, Rhee, how was your week? I was trying to think of anything useful I could give the listeners as to what I've done this week. And do you know what? It wasn't really that sort of week. My teeth are aching because I'm on my last week Heller of Invisalign. Oh my gosh, I really want to do it. Do you know, I would say it is amazing, especially after, you know, for me it was having kids

and teeth grinding in the night with stress and chipping away and my teeth have moved. And apparently that happens in pregnancy and post-birth you're very vulnerable and of course you're very vulnerable calcium wise once you've given birth your postpartum if you're breastfeeding or however you're just depleted and I really noticed my teeth so I went to see Dr. Rona at the Chelsea Dental Clinic little shout out to Rona thank you for seeing me and the hardest thing Ella is actually finding the time to get appointments the problem with Invisalign is that you need to go so to Rona, thank you for seeing me. And the hardest thing, Ella, is actually finding the time to get appointments.

The problem with Invisalign is that you need to go so often to the dentist to constantly get these checkups on your teeth, but apart from the pain, I'm just trying to fill my teeth now, everyone, I'm like, they have moved, they've definitely moved. And what's so interesting is they have always technology now, so they get this kind of scanning device, they stick it in your mouth and they kind of move it around like a wooden spoon, you know, in a mixing bowl, trying to paint the picture.

You're not selling it. I'm not selling it, but it is really, really clever. And you get a 3D image of your entire head and your teeth on a scan. So you don't have to do that whole, you know, x-ray thing when you leave the room anymore. And it's this 3d image and then it shows you on the computer your teeth moving and what it's gonna look like at the end and then when you get to the end you have a choice to extend it for a bit if you're still not happy so anyone down in Visalign please let me know what are your thoughts? My daughter keeps telling me that my tooth is sticking out which it is

and so I'm like oh maybe maybe that's in spherony. But do you know what? I quite like that. And there's that actress in White Lotus. Amy Lou Woods. She's so cool. And she's gorgeous. And she's got these really special teeth, hasn't she?

In a really positive way. So maybe we should just be embracing our individual shape teeth. I think her teeth are much cooler than mine though. No, I think it's a great thing to have. But moving on to the second thing, I've done a mini renovation in my house. I know you put on Instagram, you were like, does anyone want to see?

I was like, yes, me. Do you know, when I say renovation, okay, I'm not an interior designer, but my dad and I bought a load of furniture from Ikea and we spent a whole day just taking all the things out the attic room. Got a fine room for the Christmas tree now, you know, that kind of dilemma. And we built all these cabinets and it's become a kind of playroom for the kids and I'm really

happy with that. They must be so happy. Do you know, on a rainy day, it means there's another space to go. To be honest, I think it makes me happier than them. But they did love it. Their little faces lit up. And then I wrote a feature in the Times on snacking. I actually mentioned your chocolate nuts, Ella.

I know. So thank you. It's so funny whenever I'm reading the Times now, we see quotes from you. It's so cool. It makes me very, very proud of you. Well, talking of proud, guys, we're gushing a bit this morning.

But on the train on the way in, I was listening to Rochelle Hume's podcast, Ladies Who Launch, and Ella was the guest this week. Just wow. She's so cool. And you. Like girl crashing on everyone. And you. What have you been up to this week apart from Famous People's

podcasts? Yes. That was a really, really nice podcast, and I really liked her questions. And so if anyone is remotely curious about the story of building the business and all the decisions that we've made so far, then it's definitely, I think, the most transparent interview that I've done on it.

So if you're interested, have a listen. It's the Ladies Who Launch show with Rochelle Humes. Yeah, big news this week, actually. I am so proud of this. This is one of the coolest moments ever. We found out about two weeks ago, but it became official on Friday that Delicious Cielo is the fastest growing snack brand in the country. And as someone that's taken a long time to be able to own achievements,

and goodness me, this is not a singular achievement, this is a full team effort, but it is extraordinary. And I think, just to kind of clarify what I mean, is when we started, Matt and I began, met in 2015, started working together. And we had this just complete pipe dream of, can we take this blog that I'd started, this cookbook that I'd taken off, and this passion for natural foods, and is it actually possible to scale it?

Like, when you look in supermarkets, and everyone has flavorings and everyone has multifiers and everyone has preservatives, we had this completely obsessive belief that we could do it differently with no knowledge whatsoever. And we started and you get the rankings of how you sell, for example, in store and we were right at the bottom, we were right at the bottom. We kind of moved our way up and moved our way up and moved our way up. And over the last 10 years, it's been almost now,

we've kept moving up, we've kept moving up until we've got to the top. And it's just so far beyond any wildest expectation or dream that we would have had when we started to get to this point. And we're talking about outselling and growing faster than the biggest brands in the country. And all of that work we did while we were an independent business, which is just unbelievable. And I think what it also shows, as I said, is when we started, we really wanted to do this UPF free, this ultra process free brand, and we believe so passionately in it. And no one else did.

Like whether that was manufacturers we met, whether that was consumers, free, this ultra process free brand, and we believe so passionately in it. And no one else did. Like whether that was manufacturers we met, whether that was consumers we were talking to, retailers. To start with, everyone was like, I really get why you guys are doing this. It's more expensive. And not many people care. And we just so passionately believed it was the right thing to do. And it took so many different trials and we got so much wrong along the way, all sorts

of fails, some awful products. They weren't awful, Ella. No, but I mean, they weren't quite right and they came out of the market quickly. But we kept learning, kept developing, kept growing. And I think it's so interesting to see as well, clearly this is what consumers now want and this kind of ultra process free movement, the speed of which it's changing and growing. I mean, your book is coming at the perfect time, obviously coming out in June to talk

about ultra processed food because it's just everywhere. So anyway, it's a landmark moment for us and it coincides by complete coincidence with our first ever London buses. So currently our delicious yellow buses going around on 40 routes in central London that say choose ultra process free. Ella, I was crying like welling up when you were speaking about that. It's so cool.

So it's a big old week. It's a great week. Yeah. So I can't believe it. Yeah. It just, it feels like a decade of work coming together, which you just get those moments sometimes in there. Yes.

They said they're just landmarks. It's also a community though. And what I found really interesting listening to your podcast this morning on the train was you said that it's gone beyond using your name when it comes to the products. The amount that you've sold, you've created literally a brand that consumers really, really want.

They don't want the UPFs. And you just see it in all the data now, which is so exciting because I think it's ultimately, there are a lot of economic and commercial decisions that have to go into making fundamental changes. And I think the more we can prove that that's not what consumers want, the more the very large food corporations will move in that direction, which is ultimately such a good

thing. I mean, Ella, what can I say? Emotional start. It's so proud and it's so nice to hear you celebrate it. Finally, you're celebrating. Are you going to go out for dinner? Yes, we definitely should. We've also been so inspired by the study a few weeks ago

about how good dancing is for you. We've been doing it so much in the house, me and the girls and their favourite song is that witch doctor song, you know, ooh-ee-ooh-ah. Oh my gosh, that's our favourite song in the car. Ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang. Ooh-ee-ooh-ah-ah-doo.

Yeah, Zachy sings it all the time. They're obsessed and Sky knows how to put it on our phones now. By the cartoons. Exactly. Oh my gosh. Anyway, such a good vibe. Anyone needs a mood lift today, put on a song like that and dance. You will just feel three minutes later like a different person. So I saw you'd written Witch Doctor song in the brief and I was like, what does she mean?

And now I've put two and two together. Yeah, ting tang walla walla bing bang. And my two year old can even sing those lyrics. Exactly. So good. And Ella, this week's recommendations, let's do it. Well, that's probably my number one recommendation. It doesn't have to be Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang.

But just put on a song that makes you feel good because gosh, it lifts your spirits. My second recommendation, not so much a spirit lifter, but just the best thing I've seen on TV in a really long time is the new show on Netflix called Toxic Town with the actress Amy Lew-Woodson that we were just talking about. What is this? I've never seen it.

Oh my gosh, it's fantastic. It's a four-part show. It's a sort of docu-drama and it's about, it's very inspiring. It's a group of mothers in the north of England in a town called Corby and the town was really focused on a steelwork plant and when that stopped being run anymore, there was a massive joblessness that obviously massively affected the town and the council pushed to reclaim the land and redevelop it but they pushed it up very quickly and there was this cluster of birth defects there and the mothers fought for over 10 years to take on the council to prove that

they were negligent and it's just it's such an amazing show it's obviously it's incredibly sad but the perseverance the resilience the fight that these women have it's such an inspiration so could not recommend that more highly. I mean I don't think I could watch it because it sounds so sad but it sounds amazing. The first episode feels really sad. And then at the end, Matt and I both had tears in our eyes. It's just so inspiring. Yeah.

I mean, if I cry, you're telling me you're happy news. I'm going to cry watching this TV show. No, that sounds really good. Everyone, Toxic Town, let us know. Toxic Town, yeah. And then we had the most extraordinary experience last week. We met some people, some brilliant people.

It's a husband and wife, and then the wife's brother as a team. And they run this restaurant called Plates, which is in East London on Old Street. And it is the first plant-based restaurant in the country to get a Michelin star. They were awarded a star a couple of months ago. And they so generously invited us in.

And they've got, I think, a six-month wait list. I mean, they're just doing so well. It's unbelievable to see. They are the most brilliant people, have this incredible vision for the world, and the head chef who's leading all the recipe development in their cook. And I had quite similar stories of becoming ill at quite a similar time, getting very interested in nutrition and food. And he changed his whole diet and then wanted to show the amazing breadth of plant-based cooking and

how just phenomenal veggies can be. And it was just a mind-boggling experience. So cool. Such a treat. I love that. I mean, your recommendations are way better than mine this week and they're really deep and meaningful. It's fantastic. I've got written on the paper, Ella, get a bird feeder. So I go, because. No, but in all seriousness, having a garden, I know I'm really blessed. I lived in a flat my whole life in London

and now I have a garden, or if you have a balcony, you can do it. And I love, I'm turning into that bird lady watching the yellow tits, the blue tits, the robins we get to the garden, even, and I don't mind when the squirrels come and take all the seeds sometimes. I know some people get funny about that. I don't mind. I love watching them hang by their tail, you know, and going upside down to like dig out all the seeds. But having a bird feeder is quite a wholesome thing to have. I'd recommend that. It's quite nice for your mental health. And then just love your beans and pulses. I'm going through such a phase at the moment roasting beans again and just serving them for the kids and just getting that protein

and that diversity in in that way. So that's it. I'm not even going to go any further into my lane of recommendation. I'm going to second your bean recommendation on roasting them. It's unbelievable. I think it's not something I think people do as often. And the one that is so good roasted is lentils. As a salad topper, if you're going to do maybe just cut up some leftover bits of bread that you've got, scattering of your seeds as well, and then just drain and pat dry a tin of lentils, toss that all up, little bit of garlic, olive oil, salt,

roast it, crispy lentils on salads, game changer. So if you're someone who's like, well, I don't really love lentils, or like maybe you haveanger so if you're someone who's like well I don't really love lentils or like maybe you have a partner or flatmate who's like you're not that into that bean stuff roasted lentils game changer. Couldn't agree more and then if you roast butter beans they're like roast potatoes so guys get roasting those beans and pulses. Right that leads us on actually very very nicely to the health headlines that matter. And there are five things to talk about this week. So we're really packing it in. But the first one is picking up on something that we've been talking about quite a lot, but

really focused on last week, which is protein. And this headline is slightly older research, but it was resurfaced last week because so many people are talking about this need to not eat as much protein. Tim Spector is talking about it quite a lot at the moment. It's very trendy potentially to be talking about this trend. So, Rhee, could you tell us a bit more about eating less protein may help you live longer? I can. And I think it's one of the most controversial headlines to discuss anything in protein these

days because I think people get really passionate about it for some reason. Obviously we're not saying that protein isn't important guys, we know it is, but there's definitely a hype. So this headline says eating less protein may help you live longer. Now how confused is everybody now? I'm sorry if you're confused. But this one I actually think I could get on board with. So the blue zones, which in itself are debated by scientists out there at the moment, but they've been identified by the National Geographic researcher Dan Buettner and includes regions such as Okinawa in Japan, Sardinia, Italy, Ikaria, Greece, Nikoia, Costa Rica, and Loma Linda. CA in

California, CA? Why have I written CA? California. I think that's California. I've written CA in the US. But anyway, across these areas, they're the most common dietary patterns that we're seeing that are linked to high consumptions of, you know, beans, pulses, whole grains, veggies, and very little animal proteins. I think the key differentiation in this headline is that plant protein is consumed, obviously, in the beans and the pulses and the grains, but the animal protein is very small. And this essentially is a plant-based diet. And just to clarify on that, the blue zones,

as Ree said, there is definitely a debate at the moment about them with scientists, but they're the areas that to be debated, but as we're kind of looking at people are living the longest in the world and whether that specifically is 100% accurate people there are living long lives, long healthy lives. Yeah, I think the differentiation is they're healthy, they're like still walking around at like 100. Yeah, so it's a great health span, not just a lifespan. Yeah, exactly.

And what it said actually, it was published in Cell Metabolism. They found that the middle aged adults who consumed high amounts of animal protein were four times more likely to die from cancer and had a 75% increased risk of overall mortality compared to those on low protein diets. Now, this risk wasn't observed in individuals over 65. So this does suggest that protein needs increase with age, which we know we have to be really aware of that, especially for women during menopause, it is important. But this may also be because the type of proteins that I think obviously, and I think this is

a suggestion here, that it again it comes down to red and processed meat seller, like we were discussing the consumption of ham and salamis and all these types of cured meats that are very very popular and Volta Longo who's a leading researcher on aging and the author of the longevity diet he's advocated for moderate protein intake from plant-based sources. So again another study I've got here which I think we should talk about again from JAMA, internal medicine found that replacing just three percent of animal protein with plant protein, reduced the risk of premature death by 10%. It's extraordinary, isn't it? And as you said, hands up if you're confused. And I think this

is the ultimate example of headline versus headline and clickbait versus clickbait and how deeply confusing that makes the world of wellness because you'll see such contradictory opinions. Yeah, because the headline shouldn't have said less protein, it should have just said consume plant protein and less animal protein. And don't be so fixated on protein. Yes, finally. It's almost what we need to be saying and I think that's what this research is saying, that's what we were looking at for it last week and the last few weeks and I think it

is becoming, that's really emerging is that we have this chronic deficiency in fiber, we're just seriously deficient in our fruit and veg and those basics. Generally speaking, most people just aren't deficient in protein. I think if this says anything, as you said, it's like, let's love those beans again, roast your lentils tonight guys. But don't worry about protein. It does matter. It's not that it's not important, but it's just I think another highlight that we don't need to be fixated on it. Couldn't agree more. Although protein powders, you know, they have a place for some people, but most people don't need them. Just focus on the two cues as the advice I've always given

the nutrition clinic, the quality of your diet and the quantity that works for you. And I think that sums up that headline quite nicely. Yeah, I think it really does. But it is really interesting. And I think it's a really interesting further evidence on not needing to be kind of completely obsessed with it. Yeah, absolutely. And then our second pick up guys from one of the first episodes where Ella talked about smartphones and something I'm still working on is the hygiene with my phone. Oh, me too. It was my New Year's resolution. I'm going to give it like 99% fail. Yeah, me too. In trying to be off my phone, lads. I mean, just fail, fail, fail, fail, fail.

It's hard. Disaster. It's so addictive. That's why kids, anyway, let's talk about the headlines. That's why we think this is good. Do you want to delve into it? Yeah, we just wanted to keep you guys in the loop on this one. I think it's phenomenal. I wish they'd ban it for me too. But the government is now considering a ban on social media use for children under 16. So Chris Whitty, England's chief medical officer, I feel like we all know him, he's famous post COVID. But he is set to review the impact of platforms like Facebook and Instagram on young people's mental health. The investigation follows those growing concerns about the negative effects of social media,

including its impact on sleep, well-being, and educational outcomes, as children do start to spend excessive hours on their smartphones. So they're exploring whether they raise a sort of digital age of consent from 13 to 16, and that would restrict social media access for younger users. So as I said, kind of hoping they do it for me, too. I know. It's interesting. We're going to talk about it next week,, kind of hoping they do it for me too. I know.

It's interesting, we're going to talk about it next week because we're just going to fit it in this week, but there's some crazy videos that you guys keep sending us like, spinach is the worst thing you can do for your health, it's going to kill you now. And I was reading all the comments underneath and people saying, I'm pretty sure social media is the worst thing. And what was it you said, Will, our producers said, hey, now you've got carrots, carrots make you... Carrots have been the most effective morning after pill.

Isn't that awful? Morning after pill. Yes, please don't take that advice. No, definitely not. So yeah, we'll delve into that next week. But the next headline we've got today is a positive one. Yeah, and so all positive so far. Don't stress about protein. You're doing a good job. Let's try and keep our kids off phones and social media, which feels great. And this one is so positive.

I saw it and I sent it to Rina. I was like, we've got to show this to people, which is that it only takes one conversation a day to feel better. The study is actually from 2023, but I came across it in an article I was reading last week about loneliness and mental wellbeing, because there's more stats out about just how much we're all collectively struggling with our wellbeing, particularly younger people in this country. And I just thought this was brilliant evidence. And it's from a study from the University of Kansas, and they looked at over 900 people

across five university campuses, and found that engaging in just one meaningful conversation a day could lead to a 60% reduction in stress levels by the end of the day. And even better, the more of those conversations you have, the more the benefits increase. This is why the podcast recording for Ella and I is obviously raising our mood. And it's interesting, so they were looking at seven different types of conversations,

so just catching up, having a deep talk, joking around, showing care and empathy, listening, valuing someone's care and empathy, listening, valuing someone's opinion, and giving a genuine compliment. And the interesting thing is, it didn't matter which one you chose. All of those, just that act of connecting with someone in a genuinely meaningful way, counted. But the face-to-face interactions had the biggest impact on it. And so phone calls and online conversations did still have significant and tangible benefit, but face to face interactions were much more so, which I think is interesting in the digital age that we live in. And I certainly find that. I mean, it's lovely texting with

someone or talking to them on the phone. But when you see them in real life, it is day and night, isn't it? And I get quite stressed out sometimes. This is why I voice note as you know, I'm a voice note, a chronic voice note, as you know I'm a voice noter, a chronic voice noter, because I don't have a lot of patience or I don't enjoy typing really long messages or reading really long messages on a WhatsApp or a DM. Guys, please keep sending me your DMs,

but I don't mean you. I mean in general life, I would prefer to speak to somebody. Yeah, no, me too. And I think it's just interesting, as we said, it's like, again, the ultimate click-baity headline, but where you see loneliness as detrimental, smoking a packet of cigarettes, and we've all seen those across the years.

But I think it's just further evidence that your well-being isn't just about your broccoli. It's not just about your protein powder. It's not just about these kind of quite obvious things. It is those deeper, I think simpler things to some extent. And as that study shows, it can be something quite simple. So maybe find a colleague at lunchtime today, go for a 10 or 15 minute walk,

grab a coffee or a matcha and have a chat. And actually I think it's amazing what that does for your mood and I think beneath that all your wellbeing, which is just brilliant. It shows there are simple, simple things that we can all be doing every single day to better our wellbeing. And go back to Dr David Hamilton's episode on happiness, which also reiterates, I think, probably this research. He was speaking about conversation lifting our mood. Exactly, and how it rises your oxytocin levels, decreases your cortisol.

So it really is clinically proven. Go and spend some time with people. I love that. who's gonna win it all. Whether you're betting on a breakout performance or an underdog victory, tip off the season right with North America's number one sportsbook. Just download the app and bet on the NBA all season long. Please play responsibly. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you,

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Order on the Tim's app today. At participating restaurants in Canada for a limited time. It's time for Tim's. OK, should we do the big headline? OK, guys, we're back to the seed oil debate. That was making headlines again this week. All over the news, titles like plant oils reduce the risk of dying early while butter increases it.

There was a big new study that came out this week shedding further light on the data. So, Rhee, will you take us through it? Yeah, of course. And, you know, this isn't surprising to me. I was actually relieved this headline came out, Ella, because it's what registered nutritionists and dieticians have known for years, and that is saturated fat in butter

is not good for your heart health if you overconsume. Plant oils reduce inflammation and they're actually better for you. So the new research suggests that swapping out butter for plant oils like olive oil or cold pressed rapeseed oil could actually help you live longer. And it's a massive study Ella, it followed more than 221,000 people for up to 50 years. This is epic. And those who ate the most butter had a 15% higher risk of dying early. While people who consume more plant-based oils had a 16% lower risk of early death. So what's even more striking here is that swapping just 10 grams of butter a day for plant oils

was linked to a 17% reduction in the risk of dying from any cause. So that includes cancer and heart disease, Ella. It's unbelievable. And I think it's been very interesting talking about seed oils. And I hope that genuinely we want to reach as many people as possible. If you know friends and family who are confused about this,

please send them this episode. Because I think it's one of the ultimate fear mongering conversations that's still causing so much confusion. And when we first talked about it a month or so ago, people were sort of, are you sure? I'm not sure I can believe this because I've seen so much about it, it's impossible to believe. When you look at this, 221,000 people over 50 years. That swap of 10 grams of butter for plant oils, 17% reduction in death from any cause.

It's really significant data and I think it does hopefully show we need to put this conversation to bed. But this is what's now so interesting is in the US, the new health secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who there's lots of different opinions about, he is really in the seed oil debate and he's very anti seed oils. He's going great guns on them as part of his Make America Healthy Again initiative and interestingly as a result of that some fast food places in the US are actually preemptively before any legislation or guidance comes in switching from using seed oils to beef tallow for frying.

No. Yes, I thought you'd be interested. I snuck this in before. I haven't seen this. We just started recording this morning, so you haven't seen this part of the script yet. But I thought I was interested for your take on it because I think it's so interesting. We know so much about saturated fat being bad for us. We're now just massively upping the saturated fat in these meals, which is already

high. And it's almost like them saying that that's making fast food healthy. I think for consumers that's a very confusing message. He's confused. And I think everybody's confused. And the health secretary, he probably is just saying ultra processed foods, but he doesn't understand and he sees seed oils linked with ultra processed foods. He said, let's go back to natural and use beef tallow. I think that's the link that people are getting confused. Maybe. Do you think that's what it is? Do you think that's the problem with the oils? Do you think it's there so linked because oils are used in all the packet items because they're the best oil to choose. As we know, we've looked at the research, why they're in everything. But the problem is

they're in your stereotypical healthy items, the middle ground items and the treats. So because they're everywhere, perhaps these figures in power are saying, let's make a stance against the oils. It's not the emulsifiers or the preservatives or the sugar or the fat or the salt. It's the oils now. You know, we've had sugar, we've had salt, we've had fat. Let's move on to oils. Yes. What do we pick? What do we pick? I just I've had salt, we've had fat. Let's move on to oils. Yes, like what do we pick? Where do we pick those? I actually hadn't thought about it that way,

is that really synonymous link in terms of ingredient decks with all your emulsifiers, preservatives, stabilizers, et cetera, and the oils, and then feeling like, therefore, they're one and the same. This is taking a million steps backwards for the environment and the planet as well. By switching to beef tallow, I cannot even emphasize. emphasize and also for health it's also full of saturated fat. So it's just the same as frying everything in butter.

Yeah and you've got a meal that's already like a loaded fast food hamburger it's already high in saturated fat and then you're just massively upping it. How can I'm thinking you know the really big fast chains that everyone knows you've got them everywhere in this country and they do kids parties. The data on the side, the fat is going to go through the roof. I think it's going to be an interesting one to watch because whilst there's so much evidence and a really strong conversation, I think, coming out at the moment with this research, for example, that's just come out showing people don't worry about these oils,

actually, please don't have too much butter, too much animal fat, because that much saturated fat is not good for you. Things like the new health secretary going in the opposite direction, even though there's a lot of evidence coming out and a lot of very qualified people saying, no, no, no, that's not go after this. That's not the right one. In America, right? Be interesting to see how it develops. It wouldn't happen here. I just hope that would not make it through our public health

guidance here in the UK, guys. So don't panic over here. Also, I'm sure a lot of people are thinking, what about those margarines or plant sterols and things in? I would actually say for people that are making a switch, I know that's an ultra processed food item, but it's an example of a good ultra processed food item because that addition of the cholesterol lowering ingredient has been clinically proven to lower cholesterol. So it depends. I'm not saying that's an everyday item. I'd rather people use olive oil and have butter in tiny amounts. But if you are someone that is diagnosed with cholesterol issues, heart related concerns, that could be an option for you. So if anyone's getting scared about that, that's what my new book, The Unprocessed

Plate covers as well. It's the nuance in the UPF foods. Yeah, it's so interesting. So is your recommendation really keep butter and those animal fats at a minimum, a tiny bit every now and again, as with everything? Plant-based diet. But go really plant-rich. Yeah, absolutely. And plant-based doesn't mean vegan. And that's the big misconception. It's lowering animal produce and just increasing plants.

And I don't think you can go wrong following that advice. Especially when you roast your lentils, don't they, Krispy? OK, we're moving on. We were actually full of positivity this morning. The sun's shining. It's kind of good vibes everywhere. Our third headline is so positive as well. I loved this one.

I sent this to Rhee last night and I just thought it was so positive, which is that regular blood donors may develop genetic links that lower cancer risk. I mean, this inspired me to think, because I'm not good with needles and I've never actually given blood and I'm almost embarrassed to say that because I have so many friends that give blood frequently. I pass out basically in pregnancy when I had all those blood tests. I was the one that had to lie down and the vein wouldn't work and then they'd go in the other arm.

You're nodding. That's like, that was me. Yeah, no I totally get my veins often don't get the blood either. But if anyone out there loves giving blood, thank you. You are a lifesaver and you're helping yourself. Totally. So there's some new research that's just come out. And it suggests that donating blood

could influence your body on a genetic level and may, emphasis on may, very, very early days, even reduce the risk of blood cancers like leukemia. So there's a new study from the Francis Crick Institute and they looked at two groups of men in their 60s. One of those groups had donated blood three times a year for 40 years, so they are heroes, phenomenal people as well. And the others have donated about five times in total, still phenomenal, much better than the both of us, so very impressive nonetheless. But scientists wanted to see if this long-term habit,

where you donated a lot more blood, had had any impact on the donor's blood cells. And this is what they found. So as we age, our blood naturally develops genetic mutations, some of which can increase the risk of diseases like leukaemia. Now, in frequent blood donors, 50% had a specific type of mutation compared to just 30% of those that didn't give blood frequently. So infrequent donors were calling them mutations that weren't linked to the cancer risk.

And in fact, these mutations were associated with better production of healthy red blood cells. So what's so interesting is that when the researchers tested these stem cells in mice, they found that these mutations behave differently than mutations linked to leukemia, suggesting that, you know, they may help maintain blood health rather than increase disease risk. And you know when I gave that shout out to DKMS, was it a week ago, two weeks ago? Yeah. This is why stem cell research is so important. It's absolutely fascinating. So scientists are believing this could be because donating blood forces the

body to regenerate fresh healthy blood cells and over time this process could naturally filter out weaker or potentially harmful mutations. Obviously they're very unequivocal that much more research is needed to confirm the theory. But it is really interesting and obviously giving blood is such a brilliant, brilliant thing to do and I think just any inclination that it also could have those positive effects is maybe a brilliant, brilliant thing to do. And I think just any inclination that it also could have those positive effects is maybe a brilliant prompt to get people to go and do it as well. Yeah. And we've a shout out to what the kids are called Uncle Tommy, our best man at our wedding, who actually does a little Instagram post

every time he gives blood and it goes on his Instagram page. And it makes me think of those people that shout out for this. So if you are able to give blood, go for it. Do you know what else it made me think as well? It's just how we were talking about this when we were talking about how they're showing the gray matter in brains change when you have children. And we were saying just shows how interesting and clever our bodies are. And I think this was just a really another one about how those everyday

habits just can potentially influence our health in such surprising, unexpected ways. 100 percent. I love it. It just keeps giving. Keeps giving the body doesn't it sometimes? Okay, so those are our key headlines for the week and I think the summary of that is that wellness isn't all, as we said, broccoli and lifting weights. Not that those aren't brilliant things, but actually it is those other things that we do like spending time with people, like potentially giving blood, like those other habits

that are just so important and it's a great reminder to just be kind, be gentle to yourself this week. So let's move on to what's trending in wellness. Now our trend number one, I'm not sure if all of you have seen it or not but it's, I was just totally baffled. Castor oil packs hype all healing. So castor oil packs have been making the waves in the wellness world, showing up all over TikTok and Instagram as a go-to natural remedy to decrease bloating. So this isn't just a fleeting trend. Castor oil has actually been used as kind of like a natural alternative

for thousands of years and its applications go far beyond just skincare and detox routines. I say that with a very vague association there. But actually it can be also used as a laxative. You've got to be really careful with these types of things. Ella, do you want to delve into your experience first or should we go into the background of the Araveda and the history? Yeah, I think it's important to do that background because I'm very conscious that we see all sorts of trends and thank you guys for sending them to us. If you ever see an interesting trend, please direct message it to one of us on Instagram. We love seeing them.

Or pop it in the Spotify comments in Apple. That's quite a clear way of seeing it. Yeah, that's a great way of doing it. Same with your questions. So castor oil packs have been, as Rhys said, a kind of part of wellness for a long time. And we're also very conscious of the fact that there is a lot in modern wellness

that actually stems from ancient traditions, often from the East. And castor oil is one of those things. So using it in terms of wellness routines goes back to ancient Egypt, where castor oil was prized for its medicinal and beauty benefits. Archaeologists have found castor oil in Egyptian tombs. Historical records suggest it was

used to treat things like eye irritation, skin conditions, digestive issues. In Ayurvedic medicine, practiced in India for thousands of years, castor oil, again, considered a powerful remedy for balancing digestion, reducing inflammation, promoting circulation. We should also say it's from a plant. Exactly.

And in Ayurveda, that's what I think where the influence of using oils in the navel, which is a very ancient practice believed to support gut health and detoxification. Also seeing it in traditional Chinese medicine, where castor oil was recognized for its ability to move stagnant energy, aid detoxification. So there's this general philosophy

in castor oil being able to support balance, flow, well-being within the body. Fast forward to the early 20th century, and again, it was really used by medical of medical holistic health advocates and brought into the sort of modern western sphere at this point. Again looking at things like liver detoxification, digestive support, lymphatic drainage and these castor oil packs. So very conscious when we're discussing this trend that whilst lots of us might be seeing it on TikTok or on Instagram today, it has really ancient roots, which we have so much respect and appreciation for. I guess what we're looking at today is the way

that it's marketed on TikTok, which is like, do you want to have morning tummy all day? Where it's like people showing you their tummies and putting it on and then the bloating is completely gone. Is that what it said? Morning tummy? That was when I saw last night. It was a kind of, I don't know. It's basically again, it's the can it be a quick fix for bloating, I think is slightly the routine. So it's surging in popularity, it's had this huge resurgence with lots of influences. And they're suggesting it helps with liver detoxification and fatigue drainage, gut health and digestion, hormone balance, some kind of inflammation reduction.

The main way that most people are doing it, so there's the navel pouring, kind of pulling where you pour it straight onto your tummy button, or you kind of rub it on your tummy around your liver and things, and then you put some cotton or a towel, or lots of people are now buying these special packs that you tie around your tummy and sleep in. And then you put something warm on the top of it and you sleep with that and you wake up in the morning and you've had this detoxification and all the rest of it. Now, I tried it last night, but I have tried it before because I saw a naturopath like 10, 11 years ago.

Really, I didn't know you had it before. And she recommended it. But I went and got some from Honnebara last night on my way home from the office and tried it. And the one thing I'd say before we get into the evidence is it was very relaxing. Yeah, it's like a bit of self care, right? It was self care.

And I think it's also worth saying, because in trends, I think there are bad trends, right? There are trends that you, I think, can kind of unequivocally, and I'm sure with your health professional hat on, say this really isn't a good idea. And there's something negative in the kind of quick fix element of the castor oil, but it doesn't do any harm

to rub it on your tummy. It's like soft tummy. Exactly, and ultimately, like, what we do also know is that getting into that rest and digest, that parasympathetic nervous system state is really important. And for most of us who are kind of overstimulated and chronically stressed, anything that helps you get into that restful state is incredibly beneficial for your mental and physical health. So it could be like a placebo. Totally. If doing

that calms you down and it gives you that sense of self care and you sleep with it on. But actually, I wonder and I wanted to get your opinion on this. Obviously, as we know, a lot of bloating kind of IBS type symptoms are very linked to stress and it could be a very effective stress reliever for some people. Which is the placebo effect? I wonder if these reports and this is what we have to remember when we dissect trends. The claims are obviously not you can't detoxify your liver from putting a pack on your tummy. And there is no evidence for that even if it's an ancient practice. No and actually what I might do first is so I asked Kath who

did our bloating episode to give us a quick voice note on this trend very quickly as well. And will you just remind listeners who Kath is if they haven't listened to bloating yet and if if you haven't go less than. Catherine Rebers is, oh, I'm so lucky to have her in the Retrusion Clinic. She's the most amazing gut health dietitian and the author of The 30 Plans. So she came on our Extra Scoop two weeks ago. Yeah. I find it very hard to put things in concept of time when we record these podcasts. And right, let me play the voice now.

Chet Speeds, right? You've just got to laugh. This is utter garbage. Castor oil cannot penetrate your skin by your belly button to reach your digestive system. In fact, your belly button is not even connected to anything. It's just a scar from when the umbilical cord was cut. So assuming that pouring castor oil will de-bloat you or help with digestive issues is nonsense. There's zero scientific evidence to support this as well. So I would not be recommending this. You know, we should be looking at healthy

lifestyle, focusing on the types of foods we're eating, eating slowly, you know, ensuring that we're having lots of fibre and going to the toilet regularly, not constipated. All of these things are far more important. You know, managing stress, limiting alcohol versus pouring anything into your belly button. And I took that as a, you know, that's a given. anything into your belly button. And I took that as a, you know, that's a given. And the more we've discussed it, Ella, I think that you don't have to spend the money on castor oil specifically to do that self care.

So I think that's where what influencers are doing. They're probably giving themselves a nice tummy massage, moving their bowels along, putting a nice pack on and getting a better night's sleep. Does it smell nice? It's pretty neutral. Yeah. It's no like I'd rather rub getting a better night's sleep. Does it smell nice? It's pretty neutral. Yeah, it's no, like I'd rather rub like a lavender oil. Exactly, and also then it's quite oily on my like, pajamas, which I just wore an old t-shirt, but I-

What pack do you use? I just put a towel on and then put a hot water bottle. I just use like an old hand towel. That is self care. And that's what I meant when I did it, I really, it reminded me that actually, and as I said, I think there's some trends we talked about, the next one's going to be one of them where I'm like, don't do this, please don't do this, really don't do this. It's like a heat pack. I think with castor oil, my sense on the whole thing is Kath says,

and it's so great to have that amazing, like very specific expert advice. The evidence isn't there for the very specific reason connected to your digestive system at all. But if it helps you feel really relaxed, that has massive benefits for your health. It just doesn't have to be cast or all to your point. I think these could be a nice warm bath. It could be, you know, listening to some comic music. It could be going for a walk, could be chatting to your friend as we know. So things that get you into that parasympathetic state with your nervous system that rests and digest state. I think that's the benefit here. Yeah, it's the name, the name that's wrong. It's the navel pulling. That's the wrong bit.

Because you can't pull anything out your navel. Yeah, it's ancient, but it's the evidence just isn't there. But where evidence is, is that getting into your calm state is incredibly beneficial. Over 3,000 years old. I do find it really fascinating. It's like we're having a history lesson of wellness today. Yeah, I really enjoy that.

I really enjoy looking at where lots of these things have come from. But as they said, to me, this isn't a negative trend in the sense of, like, it's not crazy expensive. There aren't any kind of wild side effects from it and if it calms you down and you're finding that really helps you that's great it just doesn't it's not a miracle no it's not going to de-bloat you massively but it's going to help you relax if you want to self-administer a nice heat pack or some oils exactly but you can also have a nice

warm bath i love that um ella this trend I don't even know where to start. When I saw the video, I was just shocked at what I was seeing. It's a few nights ago I sent this, right? He was hooked up. I'm squeamish and it was a hard wash. It is a hard, sorry, I send you the hard washes. First we had the guy with the cholesterol

coming out his hands. So this one is a man sat in a chair. He's got thousands and thousands and you know, one of those viral videos and he's got tubes of blood coming out here like everywhere. Blood going in, blood going out. And this is called EBO2 therapy. It's like ozone therapy. So he's hooked up and you're basically taking blood and adding this ozone gas to the blood. So it's kind of like a live transfusion. you've got all these wires coming out with the blood like a kidney dialysis is filtrating through and they say that what you're doing is removing

toxins and plastic from the blood using light filters then on this blood too. So adding oxygen he says the blood improves in color when you see the oxygen go in and that they remove inflammation from the blood and you then send it to the lab to detect this blood for any viruses, heavy metals and plastics and things that you might find having contaminated the blood. Now I looked at this and it's this treatment that people are just paying for. They sit down in this room hooked up to these machines, serious, this is really serious stuff, Filtrating blood. I mean, blood can also be contaminated. You don't know who is, who is administrating this.

And I did read that ozone therapy can cause serious adverse effects and even death. So should be done with caution. And when I read that, I thought, how is this allowed on social media? It is mad. I actually coincidentally was emailed about this like a week or two ago. In the UK? I thought this was only in America. Opening in the UK. Not opened yet. I was like, do you want to try it? I was like, no, thank you very much. It can cause death, Ella.

I'm actually okay. I'll keep my blood in my body for now, please. Exactly. And the idea was that it could remove toxins and microplastics. Now, I know microplastics are a bit frightening, and I don't think any of us particularly want them in our body. Just have a match from a plastic cup. I'm trying to remove plastics at home where I can, et cetera. But it's extraordinary. And so the claim is exactly that.

They take your blood out, and they filter it and clean it, and then put it back in. Just doesn't make scientific sense. Kind of like a dishwasher. Yeah, just doesn't make any sense. And you go blood through the dishwasher. I might swallow my words in 30 years time and they do have a blood dishwasher, but not now.

Look, I think this is like the ultimate, I think we were looking at two polar opposite trends here. You've got a trend like castor oil, which is completely harmless. It's relatively inexpensive. I bought- Just don't drink it. I should have said that earlier.

Guys, do not drink castor oil with what I said about the laxative effects. It's not safe to drink. And it is a proven laxative. It is proven. That is where the evidence is. Absolutely very, very true. But if you're applying it topically, essentially you've got two different trends. I bought some in Honda Berry yesterday. It was very inexpensive. It was a very relaxing treatment, very calming at home spa situation. On the other hand, we've got this blood cleaning ozone therapy, which is...

How much was it? I can't remember, but I think thousands. You know, it's so expensive, comes with huge risk and is the sort of thing that just should not be undertaken without extraordinary levels of evidence. I just couldn't believe what I was seeing, to be honest. I was absolutely horrified. It just, it did look like something out of an apocalyptic like movie, the guy just sat there in the chair

with all these kind of drips going in and out. Obviously it's intriguing. I think this is an area of science that in the future probably will be there. They probably can filtrate our blood in the future. Not now though. No, and I think it's the ultimate example, I think, of just how extreme wellness gets.

But because of the algorithms, it gets so much pickup because it is fascinating. And so it gets a lot of comments and shares and pick up. But to me, that's just not wellness. Like, it's just not it's this kind of extreme pursuit of some idealized perfection of ourselves, which is just mad. So talking of extremes, I actually saw something Ella that feels like the most extreme trend I could possibly have seen and really alarming. Some of these trends relating to the celebrities on Ozempic that I'm now seeing resurfacing like Ella said, your big concern last week, you're like,

this is awful. This feels like we've gone back. The return to size zero. The return to size zero. And then this propped up on my feed. I think my phone's listening to me when we record and when we do episodes, because this stuff never used to hit me.

This is terrifying guys. Big word of warning, if you see stuff like this, I think it should be reported, but this is now a new thing. Living slim in the city, it, skinny girl day in my life. Woke up bright and early for a skinny girls day in the city where I brought two of my girls from my skinny group community on a slim girls day together because what's better than living slim together? Started the day at Brooks.

It's just really shocking, isn't it? As you said, I think it takes us back to the top of the episode or the top of our headlines, which is, thank goodness, we're looking very seriously at banning teenagers from being on social media because that is incredibly damaging for all of our mental health, but anybody in a remotely vulnerable position, which I think most teenagers fit into the camp of,

certainly I did as a teenager. And adults now, that is just toxic. It is so toxic. And I think, again, it brings me so much to what, to me, the point of this show is and the point of the community we want to create about this is there is so much about the health and wellness industry that is, to be honest, at this point, incredibly toxic.

There's lots of positives. I love how easy it is to get a recipe to make a tray bake or to roast your lentils or your butter beans and be inspired by that sort of thing. That's great. So those of home workouts or five minute meditations and these simple tools are more accessible. But in those things becoming more accessible, so is the extremes. And obviously that is from a body image perspective, just so unacceptable. The language Ella that they use, creating a community called Skinny or Slim is unacceptable. It should be banned. And then on top of that, this is also leaning into those images of the women in sports bras creating food just to get flash out at the beginning that we discussed, because they're the ones that go viral.

I know it is. It's a kind of wild west, to be honest, isn't it? It's really, really hard to navigate. And I was just very, I think the word disturbed, I was really disturbed to see this because it did take us backwards. I haven't seen anything like that. And I used to be sent these things all the time because obviously running a clinic, we're very known for our exceptional eating disorder

support in the Retrition Clinic. We get referrals from hospitals, we get girls from schools, we get everybody coming to see the team that we have. And I thought I'd seen it all. And then when I saw this, gosh, I'm going to put it in the clinic chat later just to warn the clinicians that this type of thing circulating again, because it girls will see that boys will see that. Here we go. So anyway, I'm sorry to put a downer on. I know it's just the question. And I'm so curious. Our listeners thoughts is like, how do you get,

on. I know it's just the question and I'm so curious our listeners thoughts it's like how do you get how do you glamorize the fiber and lentils and chickpeas and carrots again and we've got a great extra scoop coming up soon with Dr Federica Amati on 30 plants and she spoke so eloquently about this about this need in a kind of world where there's so much fear mongering so much kind of anti-nutrition advice in so many ways is just kind of fundamentally wrong. The need to come together to create just as compelling information about this middle ground where it does really matter what our habits are, they really affect our health as we see every week on the show. But equally, we delete those extremes because there's nothing constructive about it.

I like the viral trends. Like, I want to try and I've ordered some pistachio butter. You're Dubai chocolate that I saw because I've seen it. Yes. Oh my gosh. Dubai chocolate. If you guys haven't seen it, it went just completely mad. Someone was actually arrested for smuggling thousands of pounds of it. Really? How do you get these stats from? I just read too much.

I just like I'm such a over reader. I read every newspaper. Were they arrested at the Dubai airport? No, in the UK. Really? I can't remember which airport it was. It was a woman smuggling in thousands of pounds of Dubai chocolate. Because people are selling it for so much money. Anyway, but the other thing that had been so popular as a recipe and so viral on social was datebark.

I think I've made that one. Where you flatten out dates, crush them down to make a layer, then you put nut butter, then you put dark chocolate, freeze it. So this is got the crunchy dark chocolate, then the kind of gooey dates with the nut butter in the middle. So we did a Dubai chocolate version with pistachio butter,

which, oh my God. I have to say, best thing ever, but gosh, does that cost a fortune. I know. It's nearly 20 pounds for a jar. Well, that's why Dubai chocolate is so expensive. It's cheaper to make it yourself. And if you haven't made nut butter at home, it is so easy. You just roast the nuts.

It helps them break down and then you just blend them up for kind of five to ten minutes in a food processor. And you have to keep going, a bit of patience until all the oil comes out of the nuts, which is what makes it really creamy. Add a pinch of salt. So good. But yeah, so that was dates and then pistachio butter, sprinkling of pistachios, dark chocolate, sea salt. That's a trend I can get on board with. You know, that's a bit more... Those are fun trends. Exactly.

Just like the hot girl walk. And I keep seeing loads of our community hot girl walking. But I think it comes back to the same thing, isn't it? It's like, let's try and find the sensible middle ground, which, yeah, not that glamorous, but it's important. I think we have extremes today because I feel like our listener question today is kind of leaning into trends again, which is talking about CMOS. So the question was, please, can you talk about CMOS? I keep getting ads for it as a cure all and want to know

if you have any more info. Is it legit? We've had quite a few questions on this. So this took me right back when I was at uni, I used to intern at the Food Doctor Clinic on Harley Street. And then I worked there when I first graduated in my first year with Alice Macintosh, who we both know. Alice gave me my first ever opportunity and I'll be eternally grateful. And the founder of the company at the time asked me my opinion. When I'd set up Retrition by this point, I was doing my own thing. And he said, Rhee, would you like to come into business with me and work on a CMOS product?

And I did a lot of deep diving into it. And so you're a CMOS expert, I know. I didn't say this in the brief. I thought I looked at this years ago. And I mean, what, 2015, 16, I was looking at CMOS because there was a huge rise back then in seaweed. Do you remember when ITC first launched their seaweed packets? I feel like we've seen so much over the years. I know. I do love seaweed packets.

Yeah. Seaweed packets are delicious. But I turned it down purely for these reasons that sea moss actually in seaweed, it can accumulate a lot of heavy metals and sea moss, which is also a type of seaweed. It's very rich in iodine, which is good for thyroid health. But the guidance we've got with the British Dietetic Association in the UK is that you shouldn't be consuming it more than once a week because it can have really negative effects from the excessive iodine. So iodine is one of those micronutrients you need for your brain health, your cognition, your thyroid, but not in excess.

And it's very easy to get too much of a good thing, guys. And this is when supplements come into question, toxicity. And because iodine is vital, too much can actually lead to thyroid problems like hypothyroidism, getting an enlarged thyroid gland. So the risk of having CMOS and having good quality and where it's from, is it even seaweed in the packet that you're getting on the internet?

Guys, you don't know, I'm just being honest. People are selling cabbage and selling it off as seaweed at the moment. And it's everywhere. And they just flavor it and they call it seaweed or sea moss. And people buy it and spend a fortune. This happens. It's not regulated. So I actually don't think people should be getting sea moss. And there's no links to any cures for anything. Okay. So that's a hard neck. It was. It was a hard day, but I'm all for consumption of seaweed and iodine consumption.

But you just need to have it every now and again. It shouldn't be an everyday supplement. But I want to read you something positive, Ella, because I was reading the Spotify reviews this week and these three really, really stood out. And I know we shared another two this morning. I wish we had time to kind of read every single one. But these ones were just exceptional. You're all still commenting now on the episode that came out last week. There's one here 23 minutes ago that I feel like we're

resonating so much with you and we love the feedback. It really keeps us going. And this message in particular from Amy Brewer. Amy Brewer said that she loves the podcast and she says you've given me the confidence boost I needed to contact my son's school about the inclusion of ham on the menu daily. He started reception in September and I've only just got the confidence to challenge it. Thank you for talking about these important topics. And then the second one is from S Wilson 96. So Ella, this one says, I don't usually comment, but I wanted to this time.

Just to underline that you're both doing such a brilliant job advocating for realistic daily well-being whilst being busy working moms. The juggle is real. And it's so helpful for busy people like me working in a job, being a mom, to hear people like you doing the jobs you do, but you struggle. You struggle to feel well just like us.

Please never give in to the trolls and keep doing what you're doing. And the last one is from, there's a lot of numbers, so I'm not going to read out the name, but she said, I look forward to your podcasts and love listening. As a 61-year-old, I'm much more aware of the importance of looking after my health and find your podcast so helpful. I'm trying to get my daughters to start with good habits early, but also being kind to myself, example,

not blaming myself that they didn't start earlier as you can't do what you don't know or understand. So thank you and keep up the good work. This is the best day of the week. Thank you guys so, so much. It's just unbelievable. It really is. We just are obsessed with this community. And to finish off, we wanted to talk about that free gut health check because you found this rate

and I think it's a great place to leave this episode. We do. It was based on an article in The Telegraph, which is how to check your gut health for free because there's obviously loads of super expensive kits out there. As we talked about in our bloating episode, the gut health industry is worth billions and billions and billions of pounds.

We all know how important our gut health is, but you can test how healthy it is in a simple, simple way at home. Absolutely. And all you need is a can of sweet corn. So I hope you like sweet corn. You don't need to spend a fortune on a test, as we know these aren't always fully accurate either. And this matters because, you know, your gut is gut is home as we've discussed to trillions of microbes that play a big role in your health and having a diverse gut microbiome is important. It is linked

to lowering risk of heart disease and type 2 diabetes. Yet the gut health industry as Ella said is worth so much money. So this is what you can do at home to test your transit time. So how fast it takes food to get from the mouth and out the bottom basically. So how to do the sweet corn test. You need to avoid eating sweet corn for a week so there's nothing left in your system. Then eat three heaped tablespoons of sweet corn

or one whole cob or two half of cobs. And then make a note of the time you ate it. So the day at the time, try not to chew the kernels too much so some of them you can swallow but probably just a teeny tiny bit and then you time the gap so your gut transit time is how long it takes to come out the other end and the results what they actually mean is that if sweet corn shows up in under 12 hours your gut might be moving too far so you're probably not absorbing all the nutrients from your gut into your bloodstream properly.

And this could be linked to things like anxiety or IBS, lots of different things. And if it takes Ella around 24 hours, that's a good sign. So a transit time that you want of about a day is linked in research to overall better health and good digestion. And we find this fascinating in the clinic, but if it takes more than 58 hours, that's probably a bit on the slow side and it probably means you're not getting enough fibre.

And this is why we talk about fibre deficiency guys, because I think so many people don't talk enough about their poo or how frequent you go, your bowel movements. It's just not a subject. So you don't need to take a blue dye or pay a load of money, hundreds and hundreds of pounds, you can just do the sweet corn test and then you've got the markers to say hey okay I'm gonna aim for that 30 grams of fiber a day or I think I need to go to my GP, this is going a bit fast, I need some guidance here. So anyway something to go home and do the sweet corn test. So far from our show, you can go on hot car walks and you can check your poo with corn.

Yeah, I love that. I mean, isn't it just the sexiest subject in the world? What a delicious way to leave it. For the week, thank you guys so much for listening. We just love having you here. As you can probably tell, we can't wait to see you next week. Don't forget to listen to the Extra Scoops for a bit more of an insight in all the topics everyone is talking about.