The Wellness Scoop - Ultra-Processed Snacks, Sugar Cravings, The Gut-Brain Connection

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Loneliness is now considered as harmful to health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day, with studies linking social isolation to a higher risk of heart disease, stroke, and even early death. We explore why strong relationships are one of the most powerful predictors of long-term health—and how small, meaningful connections can make a difference. We also dive into the risks of ultra-processed foods, from their impact on toddlers’ development to their surprising link to eyesight issues. With 61% of a UK toddler’s diet now coming from UPFs, experts are raising the alarm about potential speech delays and oral development concerns. Plus, new research suggests ultra-processed foods may damage retinal blood vessels, increasing the risk of vision problems like age-related macular degeneration. In this week’s wellness trend, we unpack the viral tongue scraping craze—does it actually improve bad breath and oral health, or is it just another wellness fad? And in our listener question, we break down why sugar cravings happen and how to manage them without feeling deprived. Tickets for The Wellness Scoop Live: https://cadoganhall.com/whats-on/the-wellness-scoop-with-ella-mills-and-rhiannon-lambert/ Recommendations: Date and banana nut butter bites: Press 18 pitted medjool dates (about 400g) into a lined tray, spread over 4 heaped tablespoons of creamy peanut butter, layer with 2 thinly sliced ripe bananas, and pour over 2 melted bars of dark chocolate (about 150g). Sprinkle with sea salt, freeze for at least an hour, then slice and enjoy straight from the freezer. See it in action here Yotam Ottolenghi's article: 'I tried intermittent fasting, and hated it. This is why we need to ditch the diets and go back to basics' Tongue Scrapers - a recommended wellness trend Pre-order Rhi's new book 'The Unprocessed Plate' Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FX's Dying for Sex on Disney+. Based on the podcast of the same name, Dying for Sex tells the story of Molly, who is diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer. Determined to feel everything she can before she can't feel anything, she decides to leave her unhappy marriage to explore her sexuality with some encouragement from her best friend Nikki. FX's Dying for Sex, streaming April 4th only on Disney Plus. Sign up now at DisneyPlus.com.

Welcome to The Wellness Scoop, your weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration. We are your hosts. I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rhiannon Lambert. And after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be. So that's why we created this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living

simple fun and personal. And we're full of big news today. It's a big news day. It's a big day for us. We're off to a really exciting shoot straight after we finish recording. But tickets are live. I don't even know what to say. I just laugh because I can't believe it's happening.

I know the Wellness Scoop live, it's coming 14th of June at an amazing space. The Cadogan Hall in super, super central London. So really easy to get to. It is going to be absolutely unbelievable. My mind is racing with so many ideas and Ella and I are having huge chats about how we're going to make this, not only the episode that you want live,

but also with added extras to make it super special. Exactly, loads of added extras, one of which is gonna be a full debunking of ultra processed food. So obviously Ree's been working for the last couple of years on all the latest research, data, evidence about this conversation that is dominating so much conversation in the world of health and wellness and we are going to have a whole segment on 101 on ultra processed food. What is it? What does it mean? Where are the problems? What do you need to know?

So that part is going to be particularly exciting. Exactly and we get asked so many questions after every show about this subject. So you've got that to look forward to. Some surprises, which we won't share until the day itself. And of course, we'll have some super headlines going for you then. I still am very overwhelmed by this. We are actually doing a live show. We're going to meet so many of you. I know we cannot wait. I think it's going to be our only big event this year. So 14th of June, get it in your diary. It's going to be so special. Tickets are live now.

The link will be in the show notes and we'll also both pop it on our socials today and in newsletters. So it should be easy to find. Also, you could just Google the Wellness Scoop Live, Cadogan Hall. We just can't wait. And then also in big news, I've got a present for you today. Is this what's in this box? She came in with a heavy box. I've been carrying around a big box. It's very heavy. And I quite obsessively check our numbers and I don't

think you... I haven't looked in weeks because I don't like to look at them. Yeah. So, we've missed something. What have I missed? What have I missed? Ta dun dun! Ah! Oh my god, Ella, this is beautiful! One million! We hit one million! One million downloads of the Wellness Scoop. So it ordered us a pancake. Oh my god, I want to get a picture of our cake. I've got to restrain myself till after the podcast.

I want to whip my phone out. I know, we're just going to sit here with the most delicious cake between us for the next hour. But we hit a million downloads. Two two months one million downloads. That's insane Everybody oh, I'm so happy we're cutting through but also what a shock. Ella knows me too. Well, you knew I don't look at the numbers I just don't like I didn't think you seen it and I was like I really want to surprise you with it because it's just such a mega milestone one million. We've only just started I know but it does feel like we're only just getting started. We're only going into double digits of episodes. For sure but it's all thanks to you guys honestly it really is so thank you

for joining us thank you for tuning in thank you for supporting us. Thank you and also we've got some amazing listener messages Ella's selected two here and they're just heartwarming aren't they? They really really are so the first one says, You have both inspired me to get back exercising and eating healthy despite having a crazy house with three children under four. I am prioritizing a small window of me time and it has made everybody benefit. Thank you. I feel so much better in so many ways and I'm a better mum and wife because of it. My gosh, to say our podcast has just improved your life that much is just, you couldn't get a higher feedback and this is similar to what Becca's said here and I wish we could

give you all the cake guys. And this message from Becca is just incredible as well. To say that the wellness scoop has changed my life would be an understatement. As a chronic overthinker, looking into wellness and improving myself and the environment around me can be, well, the most overwhelming thing ever. But with you guys every Monday, it feels like a chat with friends, in brackets, she's put, who are actually qualified to give advice.

Thank you, Becca. And it's the best start to the week, and I'm so grateful I found you both, and I'll be a long-time listener for everything you do in the future. I can't cope. It's just amazing. I can't... It's kind of turned into a puddle.

It's too much. Too much emotion today. No guys, honestly, it does. It means the world to both of us and we just are so grateful for this community. We cannot wait to meet you in real life in June. It's just going to be absolutely fantastic. One million downloads, a big cover shoot together and a live show. It's all happening for the Wellness Scoop.

And what's even better is the more of you that listen, the more of you that review the podcast. So thank you. It means we actually get to give you your answers and feedback every week. We record this weekly. We've got obviously the Easter holidays coming up so there might be just two weeks I think that we're not recording an Easter isn't there? That's right. But we'll have extra scoops for you. We've got you all covered.

So what's coming up in today's show, Ella? Okay, so first of all we're going to look at why nostalgia is surprisingly good for your health and how loneliness can be as harmful as smoking. Sugar cravings, that was a lot of listener question requests. Reis nutrition hacks, which I can't wait for. The toddler UPF scandal, what that means for long-term health of a generation. Can white bread and bacon actually harm your eyesight? More links with UPFs and this time that's looking at vision. Your gut health versus your genetics, why your microbiome may have more influence on your brain than your DNA. Tongue scraping is everywhere. Does that actually work?

We've both been giving it a go. Plus my new favorite recipe and some beautiful wise words that I've taken from an interview that Otelanki did this weekend on ditching diet culture. So what have you been up to this week, Ella? I'm off to New York in two days' time, Thursday morning. Delicious Yellow launched in New York, across the whole of the US with Whole Foods a couple

of months ago. And this is my first time going to see all our products on shelf in real life. We've got some cool events coming up and samplings and things like that. So we're taking the kids and it's a kind of working holiday. So that's the big news on my end. And then in New York, are there specific stores that are like target stores to get into? Is there like a goal?

We've got a whole nationwide US Whole Foods listing, which is just crazy. So it's going to be so surreal. I haven't been to America since, yeah, way before Sky was born, probably six or seven years. And I just can't wait. Bring it on. You have to send me pictures the minute you see things.

I know. Because even I send Ella pictures of an Ella bar in like the local Sainsbury's. I know this feels so glam. So no, and the kids are super excited. So yeah, that's the big news, my end. How about you? What have you been up to? I mean, I'm not going to New York, but that is incredible.

Ella, congratulations. That is to New York, but that is incredible, Ella. Congratulations. That is the most amazing, amazing news. And I think I wanted to share this week with people, apart from the fact that behind the scenes, if anyone's doing this whole Easter bonnet crazy time, it's been a lot of late nights poking my fingers with needles trying to sew. I super clean my hands together doing a bonnet.

There we go. So we're not pros at textiles, but I wanted to share a, I guess a tip. I had one of those weeks where I know that Ella and I always sound quite upbeat when we're on the podcast because we love doing the podcast, but we're human too and we have ups and downs. And I had my first PTSD attack this week in a long time,

like a proper long time. And I had to remind myself of grounded techniques that I haven't, like a proper long time. And I had to remind myself of grounding techniques that I haven't done in a very long time. And I think it's really useful for our listeners to understand grounding techniques because I'd never heard of it before I had therapy for it. And it's almost like when you're going through something that is really difficult and you're trying to distract

your mind or to take yourself away from the trigger of whatever it might be, you obviously focus on your breathing, but you have to think of a safe space and weirdly for me my safe space is the Royal Albert Hall. I worked there for ten years in London it was like my most consistent space and I would visualise myself in this amazing building and you think of the sounds, you think of your feet on the floor, you think of all the things around you. So if anyone is having, I just thought to share on the podcast, a moment to try and picture your safe space and take some breaths.

And I think that can really help. But apart from that, Ella, I did a talk that I didn't discuss at Eton College a few weeks ago. And it was an experience because you'd think that this amazing college in the UK would just be following credible sources for nutrition. They've had some very controversial people who talk to Eaton, they've had Eddie Abou who talks to Eaton, they've had big carnival guys and it just reminded me that the whole world is in turmoil, doesn't matter where you're from, what your background is, everyone is absorbing all this information online.

Yeah, we definitely had a lot of feedback, didn't we, last week on the kind of the crazy myth that floating around and water being bad for you now, which by the way, if you haven't listened to last week's episode, it is not. It was just a trending conversation. So yeah, it's fascinating. Lots of work for us to do to cut through stuff. Exactly. So Ella, right, give me any recommendations that you've got for us this week. OK, I've got two recommendations. The first is, you guys have probably seen online, Ria,

I feel like I've seen you making it as well, that viral date bug where you cut dates in half, take the pip out, squish them down, put peanut butter or chocolate, et cetera, on it. If you've seen it everywhere and you haven't tried it, take this as your moment to try it. Reece is nodding along really intensely. It's so good, isn't it?

It's so delicious. I'm honestly obsessed. I've been doing it where you do dates first, then you do peanut butter, or you could use any nut butter, then you do a layer of sliced bananas, and then you do melted chocolate over the top, sprinkle of sea salt, pop it in the freezer. It is the best snack in the world, although I can't stop opening my freezer to get more out. But it is just so delicious. It's such a nice

sweet treat, but it's obviously full of nutrition at the same time. Oh my goodness, there's no sugar spike with it in the same way as you would have in a chocolate bar because you've got all that fibre in the dates, you've got all the fat in like the peanut butter or whatever nut butter. if it's dark chocolate it's just full of antioxidants. Yeah you've got loads of plant points in there so it's absolutely delicious. I will write the whole instructions in the show notes just in case you haven't seen it but 10 out of 10 don't just think it's a trend online, it is one of the most delicious things ever. Then my other recommendation obviously we've talked a lot about diet culture.

I've got a fun segment on next week's episode on a bit of history around diet culture, which I think will really shock some of you guys, some of the research I've come across. But there was a piece that Otelengi wrote in The Guardian this weekend, and it's so worth a read. I really, really recommend you guys reading it. But I'm just gonna pull out an excerpt from it because I thought it was such stage advice. And he said, It

seems to me that if we stopped for one second and allowed ourselves to ignore all this noise, as in all the diet trends, and instead follow the well established routines we grew up with surrounding cooking and eating, we wouldn't need such solutions as in 3000 different diet solutions. Eating regimes foster self-doubt when there's no need for it. They make us overthink our relationship with food instead of just living it. The world of diets is a trap that locks you in by messing with your head. As 21st century humans, we are always on the lookout for simple ideas that would solve all our problems and eradicate the constant anxiety we suffer. For the past few decades,

it seems the nutrition has been the fount of many such simple notions. Very profound and very true. And I love it when you pull out things like this, and I read it and I dissect it. And my initial instinct is that so true. We are struggling from an evolutionary perspective of being humans with innate instincts with the fact we should enjoy the food we eat, it should fuel us, it should be okay, but we are living in an environment that doesn't support it at all because you've got 24 hour access to food.

Like you could order food at three in the morning. We couldn't do that 60 odd years ago. And I think it's so difficult now to drown out all the noise of the diets because we live in what researchers call an obesogenic environment now in the UK. Well, interestingly on all the conversations around azempic, etc. and all those different weight loss drugs, there's a lot of conversation

around one of the things that then being helpful for people doing is stopping food noise, which I had never heard as a term before prior to reading some of these conversations. And I just thought food noise was a really helpful way of thinking, as you said about the fact that like wherever you are There's food everywhere lots of which is marketing There could be drinks on a screen in front of you posters It's you just don't realize how much you're exposed to it how noisy it is

So I think I've just found that helpful way of thinking about it And I love what he's saying as well is that it is a complicated world that we live in and most of us Do you feel overwhelmed or anxious or stressed, probably too much of the time if we're honest. And I think that thinking that we therefore need all these neat boxes and solutions is quite innate to human behavior, but actually that's just not,

we don't need to put food into such a tight restrictive way of thinking. We really don't and we really need to get this as M-PIC extra scoop going. I think we've got it in the lineup, haven't't we because I know so many of you are confused or worried but you know it can be a lifeline for people so we'll get that going. Definitely and Ree for your recommendations you've got nutrition hacks right this week. Yeah I just thought you know what I don't have any recommendations this week that I've been doing personally so I thought

let's just ask the nutrition clinic team and myself on what's something we just do without thinking about it, you know, every single week. Like I was in the kitchen yesterday with my youngest, he's two and a half. I had some tomatoes, you know the ones that start going off and they go a bit wrinkly. I'm like, I'm not gonna throw them away because they're still edible.

They're a bit soft. They're a bit soft and one of them was a bit dried out, but it was still fine. And the peppers that I'd sliced, I forgot to put in the lunch box. So when you put things towards the back of the fridge, you know, they can ice over a bit and then they get a bit soft and watery. So I got out all this old veg, anything that's going off, and I just made some savory muffins with it because I had flour in the cupboard.

You can obviously use flax eggs if you're vegan or if you've got eggs in your cupboard. Just mix it all together with some cheese or some herbs spices whatever you want and Chuck it in the oven and in 20 minutes You've got delicious savory muffins that you can just cut in half and warm up and have a bit of butter or nut butter Whatever you want to put on them And it's just a good way of getting some more veg in and something that lasts in lunchbox So that was my little hack is don't forget, you can cook up things into muffins and into different items.

You could even do that in pancakes, for instance. Then we've got some advice from the clinic. So Kath, who we've had on before, Katherine Raber, she's a gut health dietician, she said, go for pita breads over wraps. And of course you can make your own wraps. I've got a recipe for that in the new book, The Improcessed Plate.

But if you buy pita breads, you don't tend to get the palm oil in it, you don't tend to get a lot of the additives and emulsifiers. Because to make a wrap, bendable, malleable the word, to be able to shape it into a wrap or a burrito without it cracking, because you know if you have a big loaf of bread you just pull it apart and with a wrap you want that plasticy texture, you have to add things to it to create that which is why on the shop shelves along with shelf life you've got all these ingredients whereas a pita bread you just get a pita bread and you can make pita sandwiches so if you're looking to reduce ultra processed foods a pita also

contains more fiber and that's a better option you can get wholemeal and then Sarah our eating disorder dietician, Sarah Elder said, cook once, eat twice, which I mean, we all do, right? That's the theme of my life, I love that. Who wants to just cook for one meal? Like, let's have some lunchbox for the next day. I think that's a lifesaver.

The next one from Lisa Waldron, who's our eating disorder dietician as well, she said, just add lentils to everything. She's like, I do lentils every week. I bulk up curries, it's a good source of protein, it ups my fiber intake and then the final one that I've got from me would be every week. I've probably given this to nearly every client I've ever seen, it's just roast vegetables. Have them in a lunchbox for three or four days then you can add it

to curries, you can add it to salads, you can add them to stir fries, you're getting more veg, you're getting your five a day. And if you just spend, you don't even have to cook, you just chuck it on the tray, go and do your own thing, set a timer on Alexa and come back. They're my little nutrition hacks this week guys and I hope it saves you some time. It's such good advice as well because it's so actionable in busy lives. These are very, very simple wins, which obviously is so good for you. Very much how I cook at home as well because it's so actionable in busy lives. These are very, very simple wins, which obviously is so good for you. Very much how I cook at home as well.

OK, so moving on to the health headlines that matter. So if you're new to the show, this is the section that we break down the biggest health stories making news. And Rhee, what have we got coming up this week? I thought this was really interesting, but we don't think about our eyesight. So the headline that we've got here is,

can ultra-processed foods affect your eyesight? Now, we'll dissect this later, but we often associate, you know, UPF, so ultra-processed foods, with metabolic issues like weight gain, poor heart health, but new findings suggest that our eyesight could also be affected. Now, a recent analysis from eyewear prescription brand Overnight Glasses

highlights how high sodium, so the amount of salt that you get in the foods, high glycemic foods, so that's again sugar's impact in your bloodstream, may increase the risk of age-related macular degeneration. So that's the aging of your eyes at a more rapid rate and hypertensive retinopathy. So two leading causes of vision loss and as someone myself I wear contacts you know I've been short-sighted since I was probably about six. I always had glasses at school but if I didn't eat well I can imagine perhaps potentially of course my eyesight would be impacted.

We just don't think about our eyes. And the issue lies in how certain foods can damage the blood vessels in the retina. So either by spiking blood sugar levels continuously or raising blood pressure. Now, when I talk about blood sugar levels, guys, remember it's not the be or end or we're talking about a chronic poor diet.

So here are four foods that were called out in the report,. So we've got white bread which had a glycemic index so a GI of 70, sodium so salt levels were really high 490 milligrams per 100 grams and high GI diets which are linked to a greater risk of this age related macular degeneration. I laugh at the second one because I think everyone knows that it's not great for you but French fries, classic everyone loves some French fries but frequent consumption is associated with corrodial, I can barely say this word, neovascularization, a severe form of degeneration. So basically degenerating your eyes. Then we've got processed cheese, so you know the

American cheese that you put on that melts really nicely and bacon, which we seem to come up with every single episode at the moment. I know there's no agenda just to clarify on our side on this. It's just the headline and I was already looking at the script for next week ahead of flying off

to New York and it slipped back in again. Oh you have to tell us about the New York food when you go. Yeah, I can't wait. Oh I really want all the feedback on what they're currently serving. Have they switched to beef tallow? I want to see what they're doing. Yes, it's beef tallow everywhere.

I will let you know. But it is interesting. I honestly had never, even with all the kind of interest that I have in ultra processed food and the conversation around it, when you sent this through, I had never even considered that that would have an impact on my eyesight. Yeah, me too. I just think we just don't think about our eyes because obviously, they're just such a part of what we do every day. You just wake up, you see, you go to bed, you sleep. And it's foods that are marketed as healthy that could be problematic due to

their glycemic index. So what we're talking about here is not just one area of a UPF diet. It's not just the nitrates in bacon. It's not just the sodium or the salt in the French fries or the sugar in the bread. We're talking about consuming all of these things, high fat, high salt, sugar, and additives chronically that are degenerating now our eyes. And it makes sense.

I mean, you get poor eyesight, I think as well, alongside diabetes sometimes, I think type two to distinguish, but there's, yeah, we've got to look after our whole body, every part of it. I know, and it deserves that. But it is just interesting thinking about how, yes, often I think so often we've thought about food and weight, you know, maybe then we think about it

with our heart health and we kind of keep going in steps, but I think things like our eye health are quite far off the radar, aren't they? I mean, I'd go as far as saying, when it comes to eyes, everyone's probably heard of carrots help you see in the dark. And that's probably- Is that true?

Well, technically, yes, but not in the dark. It just, carrots contain vitamin A, which helps support the retina, the retinal in your eyes. So it does help support your eyes. You need vitamin A for good eyesight, which you get in orange, like beta carotene things and sweet potatoes, trying to think orange. Carrots.

Carrots, and I'm struggling. Betanus squash. But yeah, that's what everyone's heard of. So there's an element of truth, but we just don't think of our diet and our eyes. So let's go. I wonder how many of us were told as children when you didn't want to eat your carrot,

you have to eat them, they'll help you see in the dark. I know. I wonder if they still do that. I don't know if I've done it with my kids, you know. I don't think they have. Anyway, we move on to headline two, which is about the fact that, you know, obviously one of the challenges when a lot of your diet comes from ultra processed food is that you're not packing your diet with fiber and these foods that are so good for your gut health. And that moves us brilliantly to headline two, which is that your gut health may matter more than your genes for brain function. Emma Cunningham I mean, blowing my mind even more here. And

it goes to show, I mean, we've always known in the nutrition field that your guts really, really important, but now more than ever before, Ella. Yeah, exactly as you said, I think so many of us have heard that our gut and our brain are connected, but in a new study that's just been published in Nature, Structural and Molecular Biology, that suggests that this link is actually even more powerful than previously thought. And researchers found that gut bacteria can chemically modify brain proteins through glycosylation, a process where sugar is attached to proteins, changing how they function. So when we talk about glycation or glycosylation we're talking about the stiffening of

proteins and kind of like sugar molecules or carbs. This is really basic science for you guys, anyone listening that no science would be like, that's not exactly how it is, but just to explain it, you're almost suffocating your molecules and your body, you're stiffening them all up, you're hardening them all and that's when we age. Glycation is involved with aging and what they're saying in the brain is that obviously the more good gut bacteria we've got, we can really help the protein survive through this type of process where sugar is attached to protein. So do you know what I find so interesting is again with this protein hype that's happened

for the last two weeks as we're recording this podcast, I'm seeing it everywhere. It's probably just in my algorithm. It frustrates me so much when I know from reading this that fiber helps fuel your gut, yet we're still not taking it seriously because these changes that are huge, it says that it can influence neuroplasticity, which is helping your brain grow and develop new chains and threads in your brain,

inflammation, how they communicate with each other. Gut microbes aren't just affecting the mood, they're shaping our brain. It's absolutely extraordinary and that can impact memory, decision-making, stress response, and even mental health conditions like anxiety and depression, which is just absolutely massive. And as you said, it's like this desperate

need to get people thinking fibre sexia. If you didn't listen yet to the Extra Scoop episode that we just released on 30 Plants with Dr Federico Amati that came out on Thursday. It is so brilliant for this need to get fibre on the map. I know fibre is not sexy, but we've somehow collectively going to make it sexy. Share that episode with friends, talk about it because our gut health is key. What's so interesting as well is that, I mean I did a post on this on Instagram the other day, is that okay, if you care about protein this on Instagram the other day, is that, okay,

if you care about protein, just eat more plant-based proteins because they contain the fibre. They are the beans, the pulses, the lentils, the nuts, the seeds. They are the protein sources in a plant-based diet that are very rich in fibre. So it's kind of like a win-win. And then the other thing that I wanted to just remind you guys of, because if you remember from a few weeks ago, we were talking about another study in nature medicine that came from the UK's Biobank and that was about how your lifestyle has more impact on your health span and likelihood of developing various conditions than your genetics. And I just think that's really interesting in the same

conversation of what we're having here, where we're saying that again, your diet, because it's what you're feeding to create your gut health, is more important than your genes for brain function. And when you put those two things together, it's super, super powerful. And if you haven't listened to that episode yet, where we were talking about nature versus nurture in this new study, as I said, that showed your lifestyle was more impactful than your genetics, the key thing was that lifestyle and environment accounted for 17% of premature death risk, with genetics accounting for just 2%. And early life factors like childhood weight, maternal smoking during pregnancy, for example, not that they're things that we control, but just to point out they were linked to disease risk up to 80 years later. So we just think when you put the whole things together,

it's very, very powerful in terms of how much is in our hands to influence our health. It is. And last week we had the study, didn't we, the data on gut bacteria and meat. So if you do eat meat, just try and make those switches is what I'm trying to think. Do you remember, I think it was 332 cases of bad bacteria

or some developed from consuming processed meat versus a very low level. It was like number 14 with white meat. So, and again, it was a bit lower 12 or something with red meat. So just try and remove those processed meats. And it's like I say in the book, you know, you don't actually know what percentage of meat is in the burger you're buying and you don't know what impact that's having on your gut health. Whereas if you're trying to just have meat but enjoy the better quality cuts if you're able to. This is what also just a little side note that I feel a little bit sad about is that in this country when there are these big divides, socioeconomic divides on access to food

on education, the quality of is just not up to scratch when you buy these cheaper fast food cuts. You just don't know what you're getting in your food. No, I know it's so difficult and it's so easy to sit here and say, well, bulk buying dried lentils, that's much cheaper. And like it is, but you know,

we need to make sure people feel comfortable and confident to cook them, to have the equipment required, to have the kitchen. And also the mental load, you know, we were living with generations of people so overwhelmed, so stressed, so kind of bogged down in the various different responsibilities of life. And so it's a complicated world. And it's not to say, yeah, it's so simple. Your lifestyle means more than your genetics and DNA. Don't worry about it. Just finish this episode,

hot girl walk and eat some lentils. Like, I know that's not what we're saying. It's so reductive in a way. But if you can be inspired to do that, and then I think it's how we collectively work together to create more meaningful societal change that allows us to. Yeah. And find your balance, guys. Find your balance. Find your balance. We've got this amazing cake in front of us and we will enjoy it. And it doesn't mean items are off limit.

But you've got a good quote. Who is the guy with the dice? The guy with the dice. This is just one of my favourite quotes. We pulled up a few weeks ago again from this this study of almost half a million people in the UK biobank that shows that lifestyle was more influential than genetics on your health. And it was Dr. Stephen Burgess, University of Cambridge. And he just said, genetics can load the dice, but it's up to us how we play our hand. And to what we were just saying, it's not completely up to us, because so many different socioeconomic factors play

in there. But for lots of us, and for a big swathe of the population, there's more in our control than I think sometimes we like to think to some degree. And it's worth making those small changes, like making those muffins you mentioned, like roasting up your veg. Those little efforts, like the recommendation,

just tip a tin of lentils into what you're cooking. You could even chuck them in the muffins. Do you know what? There's nothing better than like warm bread with butter. And if you've got a bit of veg in there, then it's just win-win. Ella, how do people sign up for Biobank? I think that should be a recommendation

that I should have put at the beginning, because the Biobank seems to provide so much incredible data. Yeah, it does. It really does. I don't actually know. I know my mum's part of it, but I think she became part of it 20 years ago or something. Anyone listening, if anyone knows, can you just drop us... We always love reviews, by the way, anyway, but just drop us a comment if you're a member of the Biobank. Yeah, we want to hear from you because you're providing the world with a lot of research. Okay, tell us about headline number three.

I loved it when I saw this one because I feel like I live my life as an adult. You do just look back on your childhood and think it shapes you. You almost refer to your childhood every day, don't we? We refer to it in a child on a psychological level and then we refer to Disney, for instance, as a child and what joy that brings you. So this headline, why feeling nostalgic is good for your health? Well, thank goodness, because I feel I do it a lot. Nostalgia might seem like a soft emotion, but a new study shows

it may be one of the most protective behaviors we have. And that's when it comes to health and happiness. So researchers from the University at Buffalo and Kyoto University followed more than 1500 participants so across US and Europe and they found that people who regularly reflect on fond memories are significantly better at maintaining close meaningful relationships. So the study was actually published if anyone wants to go look it up, in Cognition and Emotion. And those had a high score. So I think I might be on a high score, rather, you know, with this study, I'm excited.

They were more likely to preserve strong social ties over a seven year period. And those with low levels of nostalgia had 18% fewer close relationships by the end of that time. So nostalgia made people more motivated to nurture existing connections, you know, keep those friends on Facebook from your childhood or at your school, you know, that crop up every time and you look, you look on it, you see them,

but you don't actually talk to them anymore. But you're like, oh, I remember being at school and, you know, that sort of thing, rather than just focusing on expanding their social circle. It is absolutely interesting. And I think the thing that's fascinating about this and just to remind her again, I feel like I keep saying just to remind her, I don't mean it in a quonset anyway, which means everything we talk about fits together. It's like a giant jigsaw puzzle.

So I say that just to keep bringing back other things we've all been talking about or reading about, because when you start to put it together, you get this really helpful kind of jigsaw puzzle or map essentially of health and wellness and what you really need and what you really need is a 360 approach. You don't just need your lentils even though that's no good. You don't just need food. Yeah, you don't just need food, lentils or cake aside. You need all of these things. And I think one of the reasons as Rhi was saying that this is so significant is there's just the most extraordinary body of evidence

about how important your relationships are as a predictor of happiness. And that one conversation a day, like we said that week, because that's why we enjoy the podcast. You get interaction and you just feel like a better human. Yeah, it provides a lot of meaning, doesn't it? And you guys probably have heard of this before, but there was this absolutely massive study done,

the Harvard study of adult development. And it was a real landmark because it was 75 years long. So it was a 75 year longitudinal study. And it tracked 724 men from both inner city Boston and Harvard's kind of elite most academic students. And they, after tracking them for 75 years there was one conclusion which was that the biggest predictor of long-term health and happiness for both groups they're obviously very much taking into

account here socioeconomic factors was good relationships. Yeah because interaction counts it's almost like if you've ever watched the old Charlie and the Chocolate Factory film and you know you see the four grandparents in the bed at the beginning. Yeah I love that movie. Oh my goodness that film. Anyway that's nostalgic for me. But you know when you look at it and you think they rally together and it's the interactions

they have that get them through that period. And why does this matter guys? It's because loneliness is one of the most serious health risks of modern life and that's according to Harvard Health. The chronic loneliness is associated with a 26% increased risks of modern life. And that's according to Harvard Health. So chronic loneliness is associated with a 26% increased risk of early death. And when we see that in care homes as well, we see loneliness, a 29% higher risk of heart disease,

a 32% increased risk of stroke. These health effects are basically comparable to the data we've got of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Yeah, so when you're thinking about your health map, put your friends, put connections, put meaningful conversations on there, just as much as your hot girl walk and your lentils. One thing I do need to stop though is,

and I've noticed it because when we chat in our WhatsApp group and when I do it with the clinic, I just put kisses at the end of my messages and it dates back to being a teenager and I can't seem to shift it. You know, sometimes I'm writing a message and I notice with my friends from school, we go kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss at the end and then I don't do it now with my newer connections the last 10 years.

But it's something I don't know why I still do it. No, I'm actually with you on WhatsApp. I find it easy because it's like a conversation as opposed to, you know, it's like three words. But if even when I'm writing an email to like, I know too much a stranger, I like want to put kisses. I know. Stop, stop. I really bring myself back.

Be a little bit professional. I know. Right. Headline four is actually a bit more serious. Yes. And a lot of you sent us this. A lot of friends and family sent us this. This has been a big conversation.

And again, we're very conscious. We both have children, but this is not a show about family life or children. I think the reason we sometimes want to include these things that focus on children is because it's representative, indicative of a whole conversation. To me, the interesting bits of this article don't just speak to children. I think it speaks to an adult population and lots of the problems that we collectively have. And this came out in The Guardian last week and it was a thought provoking piece about- Even the image Ella, the child with the crisps coming out of her mouth.

Exactly. And it was called the Toddler Snack Food Scandal. So The Guardian described this scandal as one of the great food scandals of our time. And that's the dominance of ultra processed food, UPFs in toddler diets and babies and the developmental consequences that we're now seeing emerge. And I think what's interesting about this is this whole UPF conversation is just, it is obviously emerging in real time because the speed of which our diets have changed over the last couple of decades is so fast. We didn't grow up eating these sorts of things. They just weren't available. We all had snacks, but not in the way that it's available today. And it's just very, very, very interesting.

And the thing that I wanted to pick up from this article is this fussy eating phase that they're kind of really pinning back to it. It's called as neophobia. I want to pull that up just very quickly because a neophobia is a fear of food rather than a rejection of food. Yeah, it's a fear of new food. And I think in that is a lot about texture. And the thing that's so interesting is because now there's basically the whole article is

focusing on the fact that a lot of babies and toddlers and we know that, you know, it's almost 70% or so of their calories are coming from ultra-processed foods. So they're not getting this early exposure to a variety of different textures and taste. Necessarily, of course, that's not always the case. And it's creating this, as you said, fear of new foods. And to me, what's so interesting about that is, yes, there's some terrifying data, for example, there's showing the shift in diet appears to be having these immediate consequences and noticeable increase, for example, in toddlers having tooth decay, a growing concern over the number of children reaching three who are more or less nonverbal outside of medical conditions. One contributing factor of that potentially being that the muscles needed for chewing

are also that involved in speech and they're just not being developed because they're just having kind of pouches and things because they're mostly eating soft ultra processed foods. So that can delay speech or coordination, for example. And they're basically raising a very serious question of children born from 20 to 20 onwards become scared of real food. The thing that I thought was so interesting about this, obviously that in itself is absolutely terrifying and needs a huge amount of focus. I think for our conversation on the wellness group, the interesting thing to me is I don't think that's just reserved to children though. Where do I start? My head when you're reading that out is going in back to my uni training with it, but then back to practical advice. And then I'm thinking of the issues in society.

So like you said, when you wean a child, ideally you want to be weaning them on produce rather than packeted items and what is happening and don't get me wrong, I used pouches. Like pouches are very convenient but the problem is the pouches that sell and I know this because I used to work with a baby food company. We developed the most insanely amazing like lentil, butternut squash, delicious protein fiber rich pouches, they didn't sell. No one wanted them. They just wanted the fruit pouches and the fruit and yogurt pouches because the sweeter palette sells. So straight away, if you're weaning your baby this way, they're getting a preference. This is debated by the way, everything I'm talking about

is debated by scientists. And then we don't just eat with our mouth, we eat with our eyes, our hands, all the senses, what we hear. And babies are opening packets of like a crunchy biscuit or often it's that ultra processed food is food that melts in the mouth that doesn't take very much time to break down or the fibre has been removed and it's very easy to eat a lot of it. And they're just being weaned on these snack items where they're touching these kind of crisp items. Don't get me wrong, I gave my kids a few of these as well. They're lifesavers sometimes, they're really nice. They melt in their mouth, they really like the taste. And then once they've got a preference for that, why would they want to then hold some broccoli or hold a really soft bit of carrot or pureed avocado if it hasn't got fruit mixed in with it?

I think there's a approach to childhood nutrition and the first 1,000 days really matters. That's from Nortch too. We discussed that with brain development and taste and preferences. But to reduce your risk of fussy eating, if you start with veg and bitter foods that has been shown to help later in life

with a preference for veg. And I think you're right with adults, what we're doing just to flip the conversation. I know there's so many reasons parents wean in this way, by the way, it's convenience, it's time, it's not knowing what to do, it's not being confident in the kitchen, it's thinking that the packeted foods are safe because they're in a packet. So you think that can't go wrong, this isn't going to harm my child. I can see those conversations. But for adults, we are just consuming these hyper-palatable, melty foods and not chewing. It's fascinating.

And it tastes completely different. The sweetness of sweets is totally unrecognizable from the sweetness of a strawberry. And I remember watching, it was when there was a kind of whole series of documentaries that were going viral Netflix, this is probably almost 10 years ago, like What the Health and things like that. I remember that. Do you remember that moment? That was very controversial. And there was one on sugar in the US and I gosh the name escapes me. I know who it is with Robert Ludwig and people doing it. Yeah, but they were going through some of

these children in the US and they were really struggling with their weight and really struggling with their diet. And they, you know, would then try say a carrot and they got no flavor from the carrot because your simple foods like, keep talking about lentils, but take a lentil. If you eat lots of hyper palatable ultra processed foods with these sweeteners, with these artificial flavors, those are so much stronger than the flavor of real food oftentimes. And the flavor of real food oftentimes. And the flavor of real food is also inconsistent. And that's something that we're kind of clearly aware of in our industry, which is that that's why people often do use emulsifiers. They do use flavorings because you create this uniformity

that's totally impossible to create with real food, essentially. And so I'm just very interested in this conversation because I think it is fascinating with kids. But to I see it with adults too where they then try things and they're like well I really like it because it doesn't have the same sweetness or satisfaction or intensity that a lot of the ultra processed food has and therefore it becomes unsatisfying. You're right and you know this starts from conception like we said there's studies that show if mothers during pregnancy have a lot of carrots or drink it, the study was on carrot juice. So they made the mothers ethically, by the way, obviously done ethically, small sample size though, drink carrot juice. And then the babies had a preference for carrots when they were born. And then when mothers

are breastfeeding, even eating a lot of bitter foods in their diet can give their babies more of a preference towards these foods. So there's support. I think Kate Middleton is working with the early years foundations at the moment. And there's a lot of talk as we speak right now, there's lobbying, there's campaigning for more focus on let's start off young, getting supporting mothers and helping them make better decisions. But the cost of living has just gone up. Food has gone up. And as a reminder, you know, we touched on this research that in the first 1000 days of life, you know, eating less sugar is linked to a 35% lower risk of type 2 diabetes in adulthood. It's just crazy where we're going.

It is. But as I said, it feels representative to me of like, all ages and the urgency of this conversation on ultra processed food, which you will learn all about when you come to the Wellness Scoop Live. Yeah, maybe I should save it all. And obviously, if you pre-order my book, you will learn, you will learn a lot about it. But this conversation is huge. And the headline I found, it was quite fear mongery, the way it was done. It was really fear mongery.

And as you said, I think there's a time and a place for all of this stuff, and it can be incredibly helpful. Yes. But it's about it comes back to the same old word, doesn't it? Balance, which is that we need to reverse what we currently seeing. We need the inverse of it in the sense of 60, 70, 80 percent of calories coming from ultra processed food. It needs to be that that proportion of calories is coming from deeply

nutritious food, then you add on. I could not agree more, could not agree more. And anyone listening, we do eat these items too, every now and again, but yeah, majority of the time. So I think it moves us nicely on to the Trends in Wellness. We've got a nice short trend this week because we did a chunky old trend section last week. This week, lots of you asked us to talk about tongue scraping. I think it might be because there's been this kind of virality in morning routine videos on socials. And we obviously talked about the morning shed right at the beginning.

I'll never forget that. Our first episode. Yeah. When you wake up, was it go to bed ugly to wake up beautiful? And you've got like... And then I thought you'd said shred, not shed. I was like, really? The morning shed? I remember it so clearly. Anyway, the whole shebang, if you haven't seen it, look it up online because the videos are quite something. But as part of that, a lot of people do a tongue scrape. And so we've been looking at it this week. And basically, yes, as I said, the latest addition

to the viral morning routine trend is the tongue scraper. And they're essentially like they're quite sleek looking, normally copper, metal tools, and they're part of wellness rituals that are kind of in the spotlight at the moment. It's actually nothing new. The habit dates back thousands of years and I've aided medicine, even though it's having a modern moment, with TikTok tutorials everywhere, etc. etc. And basically what you do is you just gently drag a curved metal plastic tool from the back to the front of your tongue to remove up the buildup that naturally accumulates overnight. So that buildup is a mix of debris, bacteria, dead cells. It can contribute to bad breath, a dull sense of taste, etc. etc.

Anyway, normally paired with brushing, flossing, etc. It's not something you do on its own. But it is quite an interesting one. We both got a tongue scraper last week. Have you been finding it? Thanks to Ella who bought me a tongue scraper last week. I was going to say because you beat me to it. I was very dubious. I'm always dubious. But I really wanted to try it because I'd seen some research, they're very smallious. I'm always dubious, but I really wanted to try it because I'd seen some research, they're very small studies, but if you floss and if you tongue scrape, you reduce your risk of

dementia. And I saw that and I'm going to dig out the facts on that because it's really interesting. But I did send a message to my dentist and I've got a voice note just to confirm. Oh, I love Reece's voice notes. I know because I just thought, look, if I'm going to do this every day, because it makes sense to me, it makes perfect sense. Why would I not scrape my tongue? It felt really clean. Yeah, I really like the feel of it.

Every morning. And rank. Oh my God, my first scrape. Yeah, the white stuff. I was like, oh my God. I promise I'm like a hygienic person, but it really was fat. Yeah. How have we not done this our whole lives? Yeah. It was really interesting. It's almost like Western society's forgotten some of the basic parts of hygiene. Let me play this to you now. This is from Dr. Rona at the Chelsea Dental

Clinic. Oh, sorry, it's on full speed. I do this all the time. There you go. Aravatic tongue scraping is something that I have been telling my patients to do for many years. You carburet a lot of bacteria on your tongue and by scraping it first thing in the morning, usually by using something made out of a metal, for example copper, you can actually remove the bacteria. This has a lot of benefits such as reducing bad breath, it can also improve your taste buds because you're getting rid of that film and it's incredibly important to ensure that you're removing harmful bacteria from the mouth. It is something that I tell my patients to

do and usually first thing in the morning when you get that build up on your tongue. I mean it sold it to me, I was like bring it on, I can't wait, you got me a tongue scraper, off I go. Got you a cake, a tongue scraper. It's a really diverse range of gifts. I'm so happy right now. I feel like my life is complete. But you know what? It's, as we said, there's a lot of mad wellness trends, but there's some really nice ones that are getting spotlight thanks to socials because I don't think tongue scrapers would be without this morning routine phase. But what I loved about this, the reason I was dubious before I got that voice note

to try is because I've heard so much about the oral microbiome, so almost like the natural organisms that we talk about in our gut that live within our mouth and that area and how that's also linked to dementia or skin health or heart health. There's so much we don't know that we're still discussing and learning about and I was thinking it's almost, oh you know, is tongue scraping similar to things you don't want to do if you've got like colonics which is something we should get into another time because I'm sure lots of you listening may actually have tried those but from what I understand of it from my background you

don't want to take laxatives or colonics if you can help it because it just flushes out all the good stuff so I was thinking oh no I don't want to do that in my mouth. And actually a 2005 study has found that scraping twice a day reduced levels of, I'm going to read this correctly, it's the Latin word, the mutants, strepococci and lactobacilli bacteria that's linked to bad breath and tooth decay. And then you've got a 2004 study that found tongue scraping to be more effective than brushing alone at removing odor causing bacteria. And I'm sure there's more recent data if I do some digging.

But I was just absolutely fascinated that I've never done this before. I know I'm a convert. Me too. Total convert. Yeah, one of my favorite trends. Highly suggest getting it. We should be selling tongue scrapers. Yeah. Starting affiliate links. Wellness group. Wellness group tongue scrapers.

Kind of rank though. Definitely 10 out of 10 recommend. Okay, this moves us on to our listener question. And I loved this listener question. Really feel like you're going to give us a very insightful answer to it. They said, love the podcast. So thank you. The information you

guys are giving is so beneficial. It's completely changing my mindset towards wellbeing. I would love if you could speak about sugar cravings. It's something I really struggle with and feel I can never get enough sugar. Thank you. Share your experience first Ella before I go into that because I think everybody on the planet is impacted by that at some point. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I think I have quite a sweet tooth, probably naturally. And I love sugar, as in I like sweet stuff. Like I was telling about the date box at the beginning.

I love sweet stuff. And definitely I have found times in my life where, for example, and there's been a lot of demonization of sugar and I'm thinking, oh, we shouldn't eat so much sugar. And I find myself kind of sitting there being like, but I want something sweet. And I would say just my experience is that having something sweet every day,

like I eat chocolate every single day. Are you chocolate or crisps girl? I'm a chocolate girl. Me too, me too. I like salty snacks, but not kind of, I wouldn't buy them, like take it or leave it. But there is always a stack of chocolate bars in my house. Always, I need, and I'm a buy them, take it or leave it, but there is always a stack of chocolate bars in my house. Always. I need, and I'm a wellness gal, so I go dark chocolate mostly. Not to be too cliched,

but I really crave sweet things like that. Hence having a freezer full of date bark, for example. And I find it is, it's just about, as I said, and we always talk about, it is about balance. And I think when you try and demonize it or restrict it, that's when you want more. And I'd love to hear your take on it, but I feel like it prompts a bit more of a kind of binge and restrict cycle. Whereas ultimately, I think if you allow yourself

to have these treats and these sweet things, if you like sweet things, I like to have something sweet after lunch and dinner. And a few squares of chocolate or something like that, or some of the date bark, et cetera, just hits the spot and it feels so much happier for it. See, I'm nodding because you're so right. The research is if you allow yourself enjoyed items,

you're less likely to overeat on them. And if we go back to why we crave sugar, let's start there. From an evolutionary perspective, and I remember doing this in anthropology modules at uni, you know, we would climb a tree, bat off all the bumblebees at a beehive to get a lick of that honey, because the energy in that tiny amount of honey would power you through your next hunt or whatever you've got to get to. You know, as human beings, we seek out sugar. We have a preference for sweet things because it's instant energy for the brain. It's instant

energy for your body. Your body's preferred source of fuel is glucose. A sugar molecule is made up of 50% glucose and 50% fructose. So you've got a beautiful combination of lovely sugars for your liver and your brain and we love it. So it's totally okay to enjoy sugar. The problem with sugar, obviously a side note in ultra processed foods is that it comes in items you don't expect like the pasta sauces or in the bread. But if you're craving sugar, now there's two sides to go down this. My clinic side

is saying let's have a look at the psychology of this. How hard is your day been? How much have you eaten on that day? Is it a feeling or a fact? Stop and have a think, have a pause within yourself and say like, right now, am I angry? Am I upset? Am I okay? Is what I'm about to do by going to eat this whole bag of Cadbury's buttons, because gosh, have I been there, going to actually solve the problem? Or am I really tired? Do I just need to lie down for a minute? And then I'll go back and have the buttons,

but I've actually given myself a minute. And then there's stop delay tactics that we use in clinic and then there's a reverse psychology approach that sometimes I've used with clients which is if you are that all or nothing person which I know lots of people are I am you are Ella said she is I know I've worked with Ronny O'Sullivan he's very open about that in the media and we wrote a book on that he is very all or nothing and he's very open about that in the media, and we wrote a book on that. He is very all or nothing. And when I'm working with these types of people,

I say, right, it's breakfast. So what is the item you crave in the evening after work every day? Like what in your dream world, Ella, would be your, sorry, I'm giving you like a clinic lowdown. What would you- It's my therapy fashion, guys. Yeah, what would be your go-to item in a dream world?

For dinner. After dinner. You know that spot where you sit on the sofa, you get Netflix on and you want a snack. I'm quite basic, it's a bar of chocolate for me. Love that. Okay, fine. So I would say let's have that bar of chocolate for breakfast and then have another one at lunch. And then by the time you've gone for a day of just eating that item you crave, believe you or me, you never want it again. Or you get to a point where you reach a spot with it. I bet the idea of having it for breakfast is like, I'm like no I'm fine thanks.

And then you start to realize why. Is it a habitual thing you learned in childhood to soothe or a point in your life? And this is why it's a big conversation sugar cravings are not just black and white you can't just sometimes just have one cube of chocolate and be satisfied because there's something else going on. Because actually it's an emotional thing. It's an emotional crux. And it's also an evolutionary crux, which makes it so deadly because we can't help it. It's like your biological instinct is to want it. You can't override it.

And the more you try and discipline yourself saying no, not going to do it, the more that binge restrict cycle kicks in. So I'm actually something I've always done. I used to get really bad sugar cravings before kids. Interestingly, having kids now I feel like I'm so run off my feet all the time. You don't have time. I don't have time. And I just eat whenever I have chocolate mid morning as a snack. I would have that date bark or my chocolate bar or bag of mini eggs, whatever it is at the moment. I'd have it at 10, 11 a.m. and then know that that's me done for the day. Most people have those types of items at a set time that's associated with those behaviors. Anyway, I could go on and on, but you're not alone to

this listener because everyone experiences this, I think. And then to just circle us back to our blood sugar conversations that we've been having, I guess also from that perspective, if you've been eating more nourishing food, you wouldn't necessarily as well have that like instant, I'm starving, give me food this minute. Yeah, identifying true hunger versus the blood sugar dip or the need for energy versus you know, that belly rumble hunger is really interesting. And are you satisfied by what you're eating guys at home for your breakfast and lunch? Is it satisfying? Or is it just a means to an end to keep you full? Because sometimes if you've got that joy and that satisfaction rating, you're less likely to reach for those items that send your blood sugar crazy. But interestingly, blood sugar lows and highs aren't always associated with sugar cravings, but they can influence your food choices. highs aren't always associated with sugar cravings, but they can influence your food choices.

As can your sleep. Sleep. When you're sleep deprived as well. I want sugar. You're clinically proven to want more sugar, which I think, again, it's just coming back to my map, my jigsaw puzzle. To me, all of this is so empowering because it shows you, like, to your point, Reed, like, you're not alone.

This is such a human craving, emotion, crux. Food can be such a comfort item as well as a delicious item. And it's better than going for drugs or alcohol. Let's just put that out there. For sure. That's what I used to say to people. I'm like, well done. You know, you've actually found a way to self-soothe. Now let's work on a different way to do it. Yeah, I think that's such sage advice. But yeah, just knowing that if you're tired, and if you haven't eaten much that day like and you're craving sugar

That's normal. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with you hundred percent. You're all normal guys We're all in it. It's a weird version of normal all in it together, but come and be with us 14th of June tickets alive Details in the show note or just Google the wellness scoop live Keduggan Hall communicate Let us know what you feel about this. Let us know if you have any questions also about the show. You can drop it in the Spotify or Apple feedback, the reviews. And we hope you've liked the episode. We do. Please keep rating, reviewing, sharing, tagging us on socials.

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