True Crime Campfire - Do You Like Scary Movies? The Murder of Cassie Jo Stoddart

Episode Date: October 23, 2020

What is it we like so much about scary movies? Is it the adrenaline rush, the excitement?That’s part of it, for sure. But it’s also the fact that unlike the screaming victims running fortheir lives on screen, we know we’re safe. Michael Myers might be relentlessly evil andimpossible to kill, but he’s also stuck over there in movie-land where he can’t get us. I thinkthat’s why stories like the one we’re about to tell you are so unsettling. When a killer decidesto bring a horror movie plot to life, it’s like he’s…breaking an unwritten code. Leaving usnowhere to run. No safe place. This is Do You Like Scary Movies? The Murder of Cassie JoStoddart.Your Worst Nightmare, "When The Lights Go Out"Copycat Killers, "Scream"Murder Among Friends, Stick to the PlanUnmasked, "The Final Scream"https://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/supreme-court-upholds-adamciks-sentence-releases-transcripts-of-video-made-by-killers/article_d1fe0af6-5082-56d8-a7e6-bfb31de13844.htmlFollow us, campers!Patreon (join to get all episodes ad-free, at least a day early, an extra episode a month, and a free sticker!): https://patreon.com/TrueCrimeCampfireFacebook: True Crime CampfireInstagram: https://gramha.net/profile/truecrimecampfire/19093397079Twitter: @TCCampfire https://twitter.com/TCCampfireEmail: [e-mail] a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-campfire--4251960/support.

Hello, campers. Grab your marshmallows and gather around the true crime campfire. We're your camp counselors. I'm Katie. And I'm Whitney. And we're here to tell you a true story that is way stranger than fiction. We're roasting murderers and marshmallows around the true crime campfire. What is it we like so much about scary movies? Is it the adrenaline rush, the excitement? That's part of it, for sure, but it's also the fact that unlike the screaming victims running for their lives on screen, we know we're safe. Michael Myers might be relentlessly evil and impossible to kill, but he's also stuck over there in movie land where he can't get us. I think that's why stories like the one we're about to tell you are so unsettling. When a killer decides to bring a horror movie plot to life, it's like he's breaking an unwritten cut. code, leaving us nowhere to run. No safe place. This is, do you like scary movies? The Murder of Cassie Joe Stoddard.

So, campers, we're in Pocatello, Idaho. Friday night. September 22nd, 2006. 16-year-old Cassie Joe Stoddard and her boyfriend Matt were in the middle of doing what teenagers with no adults in the house tend to do on a Friday night, i.e. watching horror movies and trying to suck each other's tonsils out. Cassie was house-sitting for some relatives, so they had this big house out in the country all to themselves.

They were finally all alone after two of their friends who'd shown up to watch movies with them earlier got bored and left. Teenage Heaven. But then, without warning, the lights went out. out. Just click. And the dogs Cassie was there to look after started growling and barking their heads off upstairs. Cassie and Matt were a little freaked out as anybody probably would be. There was nothing in the weather to explain why the power would suddenly blow out. They jumped up off the couch, like, what's going on? Cassie went to the kitchen for flashlights, and then

the sound of breaking glass came, somewhat faintly from the basement downstairs. What the hell was happening. Rats, maybe, raccoons? This was the country, after all. And because the designers of big old country houses seem to have reveled in making them as creepy, welcoming to ghosts, and full of little hidey holes as possible, the fuse box, of course, was down there, where they just heard the glass breaking. Down there in the dark, creepy, flipping Blair Witch basement. So Matt and Cassie gripped their flashlights, tried to pretend like they weren't scared, and started down the stairs to check the fuse box. But they only got a couple steps down before the power came back on again. Few, right? I'm not sure how they managed to brush off the breaking glass

sound from downstairs. I mean, they still felt a little uneasy, but basically once the lights came back on, they figured everything was okay and settled back in on the couch. And right about that time, Matt's mom called. She was right outside waiting in the car. Now, Matt had intended to spend the night with Cassie so she wouldn't be alone in the house, but Matt's mom said he had to come home after all. His dad was back in town after some time away, and they wanted the whole family together. Matt tried to talk his mom out of it. He said, Mom, weird stuff's been happening. The power keeps going out and coming back on, and the dogs are growling and barking. I don't want to leave her alone. She's scared. But his mom wasn't having it. So Matt tried to convince Cassie to come home

with him instead, but Cassie had promised to take care of her aunt's pets, not to mention watch the house, and she just didn't feel right about leaving. She told Matt, it's okay, I'll be fine. So Matt had to leave her. They told each other, I love you, and then he drove off with this mom. Back inside, I imagine Cassie felt a little unsettled. She'd spoken to her mom earlier that night, and they'd had a little dust up, and now Matt had had to leave her, and what the heck was that power outage all about? I can only imagine what she must have felt when, as she settled back in on the couch, the lights went out again. Two mornings later, Cassie's mom started getting a little uneasy. She hadn't heard from Cassie since their little spat a couple nights ago,

and now she wasn't picking up her phone. So mom decided to go over to the house and check on her. Before she arrived, though, Cassie's aunt and cousins pulled into the driveway, home from their trip. one of Cassie's teenage cousins ran ahead of the rest of the family to go inside and see Cassie. She was excited, hoping Cassie would have some time to hang out with her that day. But as she came through the front door, she sensed something was wrong. The house smelled horrible, a sickly sweetness that hit like a punch in the face. Oh, God. And something else.

A sharp, metallic smell. Like pennies. And as she turned the corner into the living room, This poor girl was faced with a scene of absolute devastation. Cassie lay on her back on the floor, unmoving, covered in blood, and a huge amount of blood was soaked into the carpet around her. There were stab wounds all over her body. By the time Cassie's mom pulled up to the house, the police were already there.

One of Cassie's cousins had to physically restrain her from running into the house to find her daughter. Oh, that's so awful. Terrible. The whole family was just stunned. Investigators swarmed all over the house to gather evidence. Right away, they realized that there was a significant overkill here. Even at a glance, they could tell that Cassie had been stabbed dozens of times. It turned out to be around 30. Seven of those 30 stab wounds were fatal.

But the killer or killers had just kept right on going. And what do we know about overkill, campers? When we see overkill, it usually means the crime is personal, that the victim knew her killer. Now, not always. Sometimes serial killer types engage in overkill because they're using their victim as a surrogate for somebody else or just an outlet for their extreme rage in general. The way Ed Kemper took out his rage at his mom on the young women he met on the campus of the college where Mama Bear worked, but usually we're looking at a personal relationship. And this is interesting. The medical examiner noticed that there were two separate. weapons used in the stabbing. One with a smooth edge, one serrated. Now, why would a single killer use two knives? Maybe if one of them broke or didn't seem to be working well,

but that didn't appear to be the case here. What did that mean? That they were most likely looking for two killers, not one. The house itself didn't give up too many clues, but in the basement, they found signs of intruders. There was broken glass at the bottom of the stairs and the fuse box had been opened. But the crime scene investigators didn't have much else to go on. No murder weapon, no fingerprints, no obvious DNA. Cassie didn't seem to have been sexually assaulted. This shit is already so creepy and we're barely into it. Oh my God. That broken glass at the bottom of the basement stairs and the fuse box. Yeah. When Cassie's poor mama was calm enough to talk to. to them, the investigators told her that, according to the medical examiner, Cassie had been killed on Friday night. And they asked her if she could think of anyone who would want to hurt her daughter. She said she had no idea. She couldn't imagine anybody wanting to do this. Cassie was a treasure, one of the sparkly people. She was a popular, artistic girl, one of those kids

who can cross click lines and be friends with everybody. Make everybody feel welcome. But after thinking about it for a second, Cassie's mom mentioned her daughter's boyfriend Matt and made sure they knew that he'd been with her on the night she died. He'd been there in the background the last time she'd spoken to Cassie on the phone. They were a cute couple. Cassie really liked him and her sister said he was good to her too. They'd been dating about five months, which is pretty much an eternity in high school relationship years, right? So the detectives realized Matt was one of the last, if not the last, people to see Cassie alive. That meant he was the first logical suspect and a good place to start. So they went to talk to him. He already knew

about the murder. Cassie's mom had called him earlier in the day to tell him, so the detectives were surprised by his demeanor. He seemed weirdly emotionless, just kind of flat. He said there were no problems in his and Cassie's relationship, though. They were getting along well. They hadn't argued that night. Matt acknowledged being with Cassie at her aunt's house, making out and watching movies, but he said for part of the night they weren't the only two kids in the house. They'd had company earlier in the night. This was the first the detectives had heard of this, and they wanted to know, you know, who else was there. So Matt told them it was two friends, Brian Draper and Tori Adamchick. For some inexplicable reason, Matt had cock-blocked himself by inviting these two

over, telling him there'd be a party, and then promptly forgetting about it. The hell, man. First of all, Cassie's aunt had specifically told her not to invite anybody over but him. She definitely wasn't allowed to have any parties. So when Tori and Brian showed up, Cassie was pissed, and I would be too. She didn't want to hang out with these two doofuses. She wanted to make out with her boyfriend. And so did Matt by now. So it was basically an oh shit, I forgot I invited them kind of situation.

And Cassie, she wanted to say hell no, get out. But she didn't because, bless her heart, she was 16 and she didn't want to be rude to her boyfriend's bros. She wanted to be the cool girl, trademark. So she invited them in. Campers, here's some advice. you don't got to tamp down on your discomfort to make somebody like you. It does not make you look cool. It makes you look like a pushover.

All it does is teach people that you'll let them walk all over you. Remember, you're allowed to say no. Yep. And once they were in, Brian and Tori proceeded to act like USDA Prime Grade A jackwagon the entire time. They roamed all around Cassie's aunt's house, barging into all the rooms, messing with stuff, basically being obnoxious in that special way that only teenage boys can be. But eventually they settled a hell down, and the kids turned on the Quentin Tarantino movie Kill Bill, too.

Uh, yeah. One of our sources actually referred to this as a slasher movie, which fucking rotted my brain. Well, you know, Brian and Torre your film buff, see, and they're teenage boys, so naturally it had to be Tarantino. Every annoying teenage film buff thinks Quentin Tarantino is a genius. Yeah, all I really know about him is he's a foot fetishist, so... That's all you need to know. So for a while, they hung out and watched Uma Thurman kick ass, and then at one point, Tori and Brian started harassing Cassie. We couldn't find out exactly what was said, but we got the impression that they were being sexually suggestive and gross.

Matt stepped in and told them to knock it the fuck off, and of course, Brian was like, come on, it was just a joke, God, which is code language, obviously. It's asshole for, I didn't think you'd confront me. Yep. When people roll their eyes at you and say, learn to take a joke, nine times out of ten, it's because they were being gross and they know it and they weren't expecting to call them on it. So once it became clear to Brian and Torrey that they weren't going to be allowed carte blanche to say whatever. bevis and butthead tri-sexual harassment bullshit they wanted, they got bored. They said they were going to go see a movie, and finally, Cassie and Matt had the house to themselves. Matt said they were only there about an hour. He and Cassie settled back in to watch

the movie, and before long, the power went out, and we know the rest of that story already. The lights came back on, Matt's mom came to pick him up at 11, and Cassie was alone in the house. The next thing those who loved her knew, two mornings later, she was found murdered. Matt said he never would have let her stay there if he thought there was any real danger. The investigator said that Matt seemed to be telling them the truth. There was nothing evasive about him, no obvious signs of deception. But there was that odd lack of emotion. It didn't seem normal. Didn't sit right. So they asked if Matt would be willing to take a polygraph. And he said, sure. His mom gave permission to, and they didn't waste time. They got

him hooked up to the machine right away. He passed with flying colors. So the investigators weren't totally convinced of his innocence at this point, but for now, they'd gone about as far as they could with Matt. And he'd given them another thread to follow with Brian Draper and Tori Adamchick. Yeah, they were especially intrigued about this angle, given that Cassie's autopsy suggested the likelihood of two killers. Exactly.

And when they heard through this high school grapevine that Tori Adamchick had a fondness for knives, that perked up their ears even more. So let's get a little bit of background on Brian and Torrey, or as we like to call them, Pinky and the Brain, the Wonder Twins. The Wonder Twatts, Twaddledy and Twaddle Dumb, Zippy and Skippy, the dynamic Poo-O. Twatman and Robin, Sylvester and Twatty. We could go on all day. And in fact, we did. We did that today. Well, we have more. Yeah. So, Brian and Tori were part of Cassie and Matt's circle of friends, not like super close

to either of them, just in the same group. They were inseparable with each other, though. They'd bonded over their shared love of movies. They were those annoying guys who filmed everybody and everything, always sticking a camera in your face and saying, say hi, Cassie, say hi. You know, the ones that wouldn't take, no, fuck off. I don't want to be filmed for an answer. I don't think a single one.

one of those guys ever became famous because that shit is annoying. Yeah, when we all went to Hawaii for my parents' 25th anniversary, my dad was so obsessed with that video camera that I was genuinely surprised my mom didn't cram it right up his ass by the end of the trip. The man, that man is lucky he made it out alive. Every time we turned around, that little red light was right there in our face. It's like, do you want to at some point experience the trip at all? Or are you just real concerned we're all going to forget what the front of this hard rock cafe

look like i mean i was like we're glad to have the videos but damn you know if somebody says quit filming quit filming i am a 43 year old woman who wakes up in the morning looking like an extra from the walking dead if i don't have my game face on and you try and put that camera in my face i will cut you that's what i'm saying and i mean it sincerely it's like when somebody tries to video call me without giving me any advance notice that's like my nightmare people do not do this i hear that Skype ringtone, and I hit the dirt like it's a fucking air raid cyrus. You know, it's like I may or may not have pants on. My hair probably has pencil stuck in it.

It looks like I just got off the tilt of whirl. Just for God's sake, give me a chance. You know? Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. This is especially true in COVID-20, 2020. Absolutely. So, interestingly, the last film ever taken of Cassie was taken the morning of the day she

was murdered. Brian filmed her putting her books into her locker at school and she was smiling but you could also tell she was annoyed at Brian for filming her and it's a really chilling video to watch because she's wearing the same white jacket with green trim that would later be found stained with blood at the crime scene so anyway Brian and Tori wanted to make the next great student film with Brian as the director and Tori is the screenwriter

so look out Martin Scorsese because they're coming for you they could be pest with the camera but as far as anybody at their high school knew they were ordinary middle-class kids. Brian spent a good chunk of his childhood in Utah and his family was heavily involved in the Mormon church. He played soccer. He was quite a bit more jokey and outgoing than Tori, who was one of those kids who kind of faded into the scenery. You know, just quiet and a lot of the kids didn't know anything about him at all. In fact, one former classmate described Tori as a nobody. Wow. Yeah. So the detectives hauled Beavis and Butthead in for questioning, put him in separate rooms and asked them about the night of the murder. They both confirmed Matt's story about coming

over to hang out with Matt and Cassie for a while, watching part of Kill Bill 2, making gross jokes at Cassie and then leaving. So what did they do after they left? Well, they both said they'd been to see a movie at the theater in town. And Tori offered another intriguing little detail. He said as they were leaving Cassie's house, they saw a white van parked nearby. Now, Katie, we all know what a white van means, right? Mm-hmm. Campers, white van, always, always means serial killer. Always.

So, white van, hmm, could this have been a random act by some local creeper? Yeah, I guess every contractor in the world is a creepy murderer in disguise, y'all. Without exception. So the detectives said about checking on Brian and Torrey's alibi. They went to the only theater in Pocatello and asked all the employees if anybody had seen them. And as it turned out, the girl who'd been ripping the tickets on the night of the murder knew both of the guys from school. She said she saw them at the theater all the time, but definitely not that night.

So, it seemed like they'd caught Mutt and Jeff in their first big lie. But, of course, sometimes people lie because they're guilty, and sometimes they lie for other reasons, especially when they're teenagers. It brings to mind the murder of Kristen Costas in the 1980s. Kristen was a popular cheerleader who was brutally stabbed to death on her front lawn. Now, we might want to cover the case someday, so I'm not going to tell you who did it, but I will tell you that an innocent person got dragged through hell for a while because she was unwise enough to lie to detectives about where she'd been on the night of the crime.

She didn't lie because she was guilty, though. She lied because she was a teenager, and she didn't want her parents to know that she'd been out smoking weed past curfew. So it happens. To a teenager, getting in trouble with your parents ranks higher than getting in trouble with the cops. That is a universal truth. So they brought Brian back in for another interview. And almost casually, the lead investigator said, so this movie he went to see, what was it about? And with that, Brian went from relatively calm to red alert. He spluttered a bit. His body language telegraphed defensive and terrified. And most importantly, he couldn't

Tell them a goddamn thing whatsoever about this movie. Pocatello High's notorious movie buff had nothing to offer about this one. He said, I can't exactly explain the movie. I wasn't paying attention to it. His extremely weak excuse was that the movie was boring. Uh, yeah, Bri-Bri. I was bored at Titanic, honey, and I still remember draw me like one of your French girls, okay? So try again.

Uh-huh. So the investigator ratcheted up the pressure. He said to Brian, in an almost cheerful tone, you know what my partner and I went and did last night? We went and saw a movie. So tell me now, what do you remember about it? Any details at all? Of course, our boy couldn't deliver,

and the detective was losing patience. He said, do not underestimate what we know. You were not at that movie. and after a few more and agonizing minutes of going back and forth, Brian finally said, okay, okay, I'll tell you what we were doing. They hadn't been at the movie, he admitted, but they didn't kill Cassie. They lied about where they were because they did breaking into cars and stealing stuff. In another interrogation room, Tori confirmed the story.

Yeah, yeah, we were trying to avoid telling you this, obviously, but we were, were going through cars, you know, just the ones that weren't locked. We'd take change or whatever we could find. And after he'd said his piece about that, Tori loyered up. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Soon after their tense interview with Brian, the detectives got a call from his parents. Brian needed to come back in and talk to them, they said. And when they brought him in, the investigators had to hide their excitement. One look at this kid told them he was about to drop a bombshell.

Hang on, can I just interrupt just for one second? If there are any teenagers listening to this right now, I want you to perk up your ears, okay? If you happen to be a little Brian or Torrey and you think you're going to kill somebody and get away with it, like maybe, you know, your girlfriend's mom said she can't see you anymore or something like that, I want you to pay very close attention here because all it took for this kid to crack like shatterglass,

was for those detectives to challenge their alibi. That was it. They didn't have any blood, any fingerprints, any DNA, any, anything on these kids at this point whatsoever. And all they had to do was apply the slightest little bit of pressure. And Badi McBadass Brian over here broke like an egg. And trust me, I've got 20 plus years of true crime obsession under my belt. And this is always what happens every time. So just do yourself a favor, cut the bravado, don't do this.

Okay, get a hobby. Go join the Peace Corps, do something. Just, not this. Yeah, and maybe go hit up a therapist too. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So as soon as they got Brian and his parents all cozy and comfortable in an interrogation room, Brian folded like an origami swan. He burst into tears and admitted that he and Tori weren't really breaking into cars on the night of the murder.

Oh, no shit. What were they doing? Well, they were trying to recreate the movie Scream. It was just supposed to be a prank, Brian burst out. It wasn't supposed to be real. He said the plan that night was to just throw a good scare into their friends. While they were over there hanging with Cassie and Matt, Tori had snuck around the house and unlocked all the doors so they could easily get back in later.

After they left, ostensibly to go see a movie, They changed into dark clothes, and they put on masks, blank white masks. They'd painted up to look more cool, as Brian put it. Oh, Jesus, take the wheel. Yeah, we're going to talk more about these masks in a little bit. There's just so much to unpack. Brian said once they were all suited up, they slipped back into the house through the basement door. They found the breaker box, and true to their horror movie buff roots, started messing with the lights.

Upstairs, of course, Upstairs, of course, Madden Cassie had no way of knowing that the power outage that freak them out so badly had been orchestrated by the two friends they'd just said goodbye to like 20 minutes before. Brian told the detectives about breaking some glass at the bottom of the basement stairs to try and lure them down there. And because life is not, in fact, a fucking bad movie. That didn't work. Well, it's sure a shit wouldn't work on me. I can tell you that for free. If I heard glass breaking in my basement, especially if the power had just gone out a minute or too earlier, I think my natural reaction would be to haul ass out the front door and never

look back. But I'm guessing the reason they were able to brush it off so easily was just because the house was so rural. Because out in the country, you get all kinds of critters messing around in your basement and you get used to weird noises like that. One of my friends came home from a party one night and I swear to God I'm not making this up. She found an actual real life possum hanging by its tail from her doorknob just dead ass asleep. Just hanging there They're just upside down asleep. She spent the night in your car in case you're wondering. Yeah, you don't want to scare.

Any time a creature is asleep, you don't want to scare it a wig. That's the worst possible solution. And a different friend, this is when I lived in North Carolina, a different friend came home one time and found a copperhead snake curled up on her stovetop. No, ma'am. And that was scary because those things will kill you. And, you know, it's funny because they talk about, oh, we were trying to lure them downstairs with taking them. out the power at the breaker box, the first thing I do when the power goes out is to just wait. Yeah.

I don't check my breakers because I believe in the power of not looking at things until they just fix themselves. I believe in that as well. So blubbering quite a bit in the process, Brian told the detectives what happened next. Once Matt's mom came to pick him up and Cassie was alone in the house, the wonder twats waited a few minutes and then turned off the power again. Cassie knew someone was in the house, he said, and she was terrified. They stalked her all through the house for a while, at one point slamming a closet door to scare her even more. I can't even imagine what she went through, the absolute fear. Just makes me queasy thinking about it.

He said they were just planning to scare the shit out of her for a while and then take off the masks and say, hey, just a joke, chill out. But then Brian said, Tori just went crazy. He said, I saw his hand come up, and he had a knife. and that's when she let out a scream that I'll never forget. And he said, I just have to do it. I have to kill her. And he just started stabbing her. Brian yelled, what are you doing? And Tori said, I killed her, I killed her. According to Brian, he was horrified. And he said he didn't touch Cassie at all. Didn't participate in the killing in any way. It was all Tori. And then, just when the detectives thought he was done telling the story, Brian looked up and said, I can show you the murder

weapons. The detectives just about fell out of their chairs. Brian led them to a place called Black Rock Canyon, and a freshly dug hole haphazardly covered with grass and leaves. And in this hole, oh, campers. It was Christmas morning for the investigators. Inside the hole was some clothing, some handwritten notes, a pile of matches from where these two numb skulls had tried, and failed to set the stuff on fire. Two knives, one serrated, one smooth. Wait, wait. Can we talk about the fire failure for a second? Oh yeah. These two potatoes were too incompetent to burn a small pile of evidence. You can still read some of the writing on the damn paper. Oh, my God. Stop burning the fucking evidence if you don't know what you're doing.

Jesus Christ. Just soak it in acid or you know what? Throw it in a river. Okay. Actually, since we hate murderers, burn all the evidence and just run away. Don't even look back at the fire that's inevitably going out and run away. They also found two white masks painted with drips of blood red all around the eyes. They are the stuff of nightmares and I hate them. Yeah, the masks were the only thing these morons did well. And even then, we know some very crafty bitches that would have done a better job. Oh, for sure. Give me 20 bucks to go wild to Michaels, and I'm all over that challenge.

And by the way, these things, I even forgot to put this in the notes, but I'm just remembering it now that they based these awful things on artwork by the band Slipknot. Oh, my God. So if we needed any more reasons to make fun of these two little shits. They're double plagiarists. Slipp-knot. Scream and Slip-Not. Perfect. Let's recreate those. We'll become famous. but they are fucking terrifying.

Like, yeah, we'll show you pictures of them. They're very, very scary. All right. So they found these freaking awful masks, and then they found one more thing. And even more than the masks, it made the hairs on the back of their neck stand up. Buried at the bottom of the hole was a still intact videotape. Oh, my God. The film in the tape was the most flammable thing in that pile,

and those high-calibre jackasses couldn't even burn that right? Apparently not. And the detective's first thought was, oh my God, they filmed the murder. When they asked Brian what was on the tape, his only response was a shocked deer in the headlights expression. Did you forget you put that in there, Dufus? Apparently so. So when the investigators sat down to play the tape, they were all really on edge. Nobody wanted to have to witness a murder. Fortunately, there was no murder, but even so, what they found on that tape was enough to disturb all these

experienced homicide detectives right down to their bones. There is a transcript of this entire tape out there, and campers, we're going to read you some excerpts from it, because it really needs to be heard to be believed. So, I'm going to be Brian. And I'm going to be Tori. In the first part of the tape, Twatman and Robin are in the car. It's September 21st, the night before Cassie's murder, and they're driving around. Tori's driving, Brian's in the passenger seat filming.

This is apparently a botched attempt at an attack on another girl from their school. They call her by name on the tape, but we're just going to call her Jane Doe. Right, so remember, this was the night before Cassie's murder, and they were going to try to go after a different girl. We're going for a high-deaf count. Plus, we're not going to get caught, Brian. If we're going for guns, we're just going to end it. We're just going to grab the guns and get out of there and kill every.

ready and leave. We're going to make history. We're going to make history. For all you FBI agents watching this, you weren't quick enough. You weren't quick enough and you weren't smart enough and we're going over to Jane Doe's house and we're going to snoop around over there and try to see if she's home or not. And if she's home, splat. She's dead. Don't put your humor into this, Brian. I'm not putting any humor into it. Yep. People will die and memories will fade. memories will fade. Hmm, I wonder what movie you got that from, Brian. Myself. That was for myself. Well, no wonder it was so lame. Okay. We're on our way and I'll let you stay tuned. We're almost there. Okay. Pause for a second. So, Katie, a lot of documentaries and articles that we've seen

about this case seem to suggest that Brian Draper was the dominant one of the two guys. And I think that's probably because people perceived him as more outgoing. But you and I both disagree with that, right? I feel like Tori was the leader for a given value of the word leader, obviously. I mean, neither of these sea cucumbers for brains could lead a starving horse to hay bale, but you know what I mean, like of the two of them. Yeah, I definitely think Tori was the leader, and you can see a little example of it in that part we just read, where Brian's joking around and Tori shuts him down. Don't put your humor into this.

Yeah, and then when Brian tries to be serious and talk about people dying and memories fading, Tori makes fun of him for that too. So it seems like a little peek into the dynamics between them. But that said, we want to make this clear. We blame both of these little dipshits equally. We don't believe that Brian was enthralled to Tori or vice versa. It's both of them. Okay. So in this next segment recorded a little bit later on the same night, they're still in the car, and they're about to treat us to a discussion of their philosophy of life and death. So you know this is going to be a treat, right? as they continue to stalk their intended victim, of course. And by the way, we're skipping the odd line here and there, just little stuff like,

how bright is this camera light and other stuff that has nothing to do with the actual conversation? And we're also skipping some repetitious stuff. So this isn't the full conversation, but we'll post a link to that on our social media if you want to read every word. We're at Jane Doe's house. It's clear out there in the pasture. We've already snooped around her house a couple times. and she's not home, so we're going to go to that church over there, and we're going to call a girl and guy named Cassie and Matt.

They're our friends, but we all have to make sacrifices. So I feel tonight is the night, and I feel really weird and stuff, I feel like I want to kill somebody. I know that's not normal, but what the hell? I feel we need to break away from normal life, because let's put it this way. parents, along with their parents, along with their parents, and so on, taught them about God, Jesus, the whole bullshit line. I'm sure you guys believe in God as well.

I realized when I was in seventh grade, you don't believe in Santa Claus or vampires or werewolves. They're used to metaphor, not let, they teach their kids back in the 1800s. I learned this in English class about telling their kids that they can't go outside or a vampire will get you, just to make their kids stay and do what they want to do. So God is basically, that's why. what God's for, right? Yep.

Trying to get people to do good or else so-called you go to hell. And we're obviously going to hell if it's real, but who gives a shit? Yeah, the point I'm making is we're also taught that things like killing people and other things is wrong. The only thing that's wrong about that is because it's breaking

the law. Natural selection, dude, natural selection. That's all I got to say. Oh my God, there's nothing more exhausting on this earth than listening to some pseudo-intellectual little shit heel talking about and usually completely misunderstanding natural selection. Oy, y, aye, yay.

So then Tori says, there should be no law against killing people. I know it's a wrong thing, but... Natural selection. Hell, you restrict somebody for it, they're just going to want it more. Exactly. Okay, so here they turn the camera off,

and apparently their plan to murder Jane Doe didn't work out because she wasn't home. So now they're going to start brainstorming Plan B. Now we're going over to Cassie and Matt's house. If they're home alone, we're going to... It's Cassie's house. Matt is there. Matt is there. Sorry.

We're going to knock on the door. We'll see who's there. We'll see if their parents are home or not. If they're home alone, we will leave and then come back in about 10 minutes. We'll sneak in through the door because chances are they're probably in Cassie's room. We'll make a noise outside. And Matt will come out to investigate. We'll kill him. And we'll scare the shit out of Cassie, okay?

Sounds like fun. We found our victim. and sad as it may be, she's our friend. But you know what? We all have to make sacrifices. Our first victim is going to be Cassie Stoddard and her friends. We'll find out if she has friends over. If she's going to be alone in a big, dark house in the middle of nowhere, how perfect can you get? I mean, like, holy shit, dude. I'm more, and he's just thinking about it. Hell yeah. So we're going to fucking kill her and her friends, and we're going to keep moving on.

I heard some news about Jane Doe 2. This is yet another potential victim. She's going to be home alone from 6 to 7, so we might kill her and drive over to Cassie's thing and scare the shit out of them and kill them one by fucking one. Hell yeah. Why one by one? Why can't it be a slaughterhouse? Two by two and three by three.

Because we got to keep it classy. Keep it classy. So yeah, it's going to be extra fun. You're evil. Yes, I am. So are you, dude. Evil. Evil. No. Evil is an expression of God. That was another test you failed. So here we have

Tori shitting on Brian again. You failed it is. Evil is not an expression of God. Yes, it is. That is bullshit, and you know it. Evil of origin is a follower of fucking Satan. There is no Satan. Is Satan real, then shut up? Then how are we supposed to express ourselves? Good and bad? We're bad. We are bad. That sounds so shitty. We're evil. That sounds even shittier, though. Hey, we're not.

Okay, then we're sick psychopaths who get their pleasure off killing other people. That sounds good, baby. We're going to go down in history. We're going to be just like scream, except in real life terms. Sounds good, baby. We're going to be murderers, like, let's see. Ted Bundy, like the Hellside Stranglers. No.

The Zodiac Killer? Those people were more amateurs compared to what we're going to be. We're going to be more of higher sources, of Ed Gein. Well, let's say we're that sick and that twisted. Oh, you know what Ed Gein's words were? What? He saw a girl walking down the street, right? Yeah.

Two questions came to his head. Hmm, I could take her out and have a nice time with her. And then kill her? Skinner alive? Charmed the pants off her. Or I wonder what her head would look like on a stick. Holy shit. It's creepy, huh? Kick ass.

Murder is power. Murder is freedom. Goodbye. Okay, so in the midst of these scintillating musings, did you hear that line about meeting a girl in the street and party wants to treat a real nice, but the other part wants to see what her head looks like on a stick? Yeah, Ed Gein didn't say that. Ed Kemper did. And do you know why this little pimple thinks Ed Gein said it? Because Patrick Bateman made the same mistake in American Psycho?

Yep. so this is the source material that this little pile of damp potato peels is working with and he thinks Bundy was an amateur remember these two failed to set a small pile of clothing and paper on fire these criminal masterminds didn't even feel it was necessary to find out what the movie that was supposed to be their alibi was about god i hate that these little dicks are making us have to defend ted motherfucking Bundy like i'm sorry Bundy was an amateur, but you two are hot shit? I'm pretty sure Bundy wouldn't have led cops right to a videotaped confession of his very first murder. Like, I'm like, yo, Bundy and the

Zodiac, they put the work in, kid. They were out there on the streets every day, killing innocent people, and you haven't managed one yet. And then I remember that I would love nothing more in the world than to put Ted Bundy into a half Nelson and I get a hold of myself. Exactly. It's like Bundy was a shit sting But he was like an epic shit sting Y'all are just like faint little Skid marks on a pair of old Spider-Man Underoos

All right So obviously the murder plot On the night of September 21st Didn't come off And the next conversation on the tape Takes place the next day at school During some kind of study hall You can hear other students

And the teacher talking in the background But obviously that was not enough To deter these freaks from having this conversation inch right out in the middle of the room. Now, we won't read this whole conversation to you, but suffice it to say that they talk about making a death list, a list of potential victims. And at one point, Brian says, if you're watching this, we're probably deceased. He says, hopefully this will go smoothly and we can get our first kill done and then keep

going. Tori says, for you future serial killers watching this tape, good luck with that. Hopefully you don't have like eight or nine failures like we have. So they'd been working at this for a while But they could never get a victim home alone Without their parents around Now by far the worst part of this conversation In my opinion is when Brian looks right at the camera

And says, we were patient and now we're getting paid off I'm sorry Cassie's family, but she has to be the one We have to stick with the plan And she's perfect, so she's going to die And then they both laugh You know, she was perfect You little asshole to the people who loved her She was

And she wasn't for you dicks. So they had heard at this point about Cassie's plan to house sit for her aunt out in the country, and this was going to be it. Now next, the tape cuts back to Tori's car. And again, Brian is in the passenger seat filming. It's the night of September 22nd, the night of the murder. And Brian says, Um, unfortunately, we have the grueling task of killing our two friends. And they're right in that house just down the street. This was right after they had left after watching part of Kill Bill with Man and Can.

Cassie. Brian says, we checked out the whole house. We know there's lots of doors. There's lots of places to hide. I unlocked the back doors. It's all unlocked. Now we just got to wait and yep, we're really nervous right now, but you know, we're ready. The tape cuts out again. And when it picks back up, the energy is palpably different. Like, you can hear that Tori is driving really fast. I would encourage you to watch this footage on YouTube if you can stomach it because we can't do it justice here. There's this edge in their voices that literally makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up every time. They've just come from murdering Cassie and they are just lit up like live wires. Brian says, I just killed Cassie. I stabbed her in the throat and I saw her lifeless body just disappeared. Dude, I just killed Cassie. And he goes on and on until Tori finally says, shut the fuck up. We've got to get our act straight. And I see, y'all, that's another reason why I think Tori is the dominant one. Brian is wigging out, confessing on videotape, and Tori's the one who says, shut up, we've got to get our story straight. Very cool and collected.

And Brian says, it's okay, okay? We'll just, we'll go buy movie tickets now. The tape cuts off a few moments later, and Brian and Tori went to get their movie tickets to try and establish an alibi, and then they went to Black Rock Canyon to bury and fail to burn the evidence. So, this tape told the investigators several things. First, that they'd had other intended victims and had tried executing their murder plot before. Second, that they'd been planning to keep on killing after Cassie. Third, that they'd planned to kill Matt, too. And fourth, that Brian Draper was one hell of a lot more involved than he'd admitted. Oh, yeah. That was his voice on the tape saying, I stabbed her in the throat. What the tape made crystal clear more than anything else was that both these kids were in this up to their eyebrows. When they confronted Brian with the tape,

he admitted to stabbing Cassie in the leg and in the neck, but still tried to make it sound like Tori had made him do it, like his friend had just gone crazy and Brian was too scared to say no. But nobody was buying it. Campers, I think you know what I'm about to tell you. It was habeas, us time. Yeah.

Tori and Brian were tried separately, and it probably won't surprise anyone to hear that they each blamed the other. Oh, man, I thought their love would last forever. Basically, they each portrayed the other as a dangerous, unstable psychopath. Oh, we were just there to play a prank and make a movie of it, and then he just went crazy and started stabbing. What happened to being Natory's badasses, boys? Getting a little too hot for you?

Yeah, what's up? don't want credit anymore? You know, this we were making a movie of this awesome horror-style prank bullshit really amuses me. Firstly, because it's transparent horseshit if you've seen even one minute of that tape, but also because if you were allegedly going to play a prank and tape Cassie's reaction, then why is the murder the only thing that isn't on the tape? Nice try, twatlings. Anyway, they were both convicted and sentenced to life without parole,

thereby saving us all from possibly having to watch the kind of awful, awful movies. These two meatheads would have ended up making. You know it would have been awful. So their sentences might actually change at some point because of that Supreme Court ruling that required a re-evaluation of all life without parole sentences on juvenile offenders, which I basically agree with. I think that's probably a wise ruling. But my guess is that neither mutt nor Jeff will be going anywhere for quite some time. Now, Tori has been very loud about proclaiming his innocence.

and so have his parents. They pop up every now and again on various blogs, talking about what a good boy TM Tori is. Now he was basically just a pawn in Brian Draper's chess game or whatever. Sure. You just keep right on trucking with that nice comforting denial, just like a warm blankie out of the dryer.

Maybe you and Chris Watts parents can get together for lunch sometime. Talk about your good boys. Cassie's classmates were, of course, completely shocked by the outcome of this case. I don't know how you recover from that. finding out that two people that you considered friends were budding serial killers. Right.

It's just, I can't even imagine. And they never would have imagined that the people who took this vibrant, beautiful spirit from them were people she called friends. They came together after all this, though, to make a really lovely tribute to Cassie. There's this big rock outside the Pocatello High School, and a bunch of Cassie's friends and teachers painted it for her. So there's a really lovely portrait of Cassie on it and some sweet messages from the people who cared about her, and I'm sure miss her still. Brian and Tori are housed in the same prison, which I find kind of hilarious. Because I hope they hate each other and are making each other miserable. We can only hope.

Would either of them have become a killer without the other? I'm not sure. Sometimes we'll do stuff in a group that we wouldn't dream of doing otherwise. But at the end of the day, to do something like this, 30 stab wounds, and to have that kind of kind of sustained focus on it where they had eight or nine failures and they kept going and kept going, I think you've got to have it in you somewhere. They both did. So that was a wild one, huh campers? You know we'll have another one for you next week. But for now, lock your doors, light your lights, and stay safe until we get together again around the

true crime campfire. And we want to send a shout out to a few of our newest patrons. Thank you so much to Emily, Kayla, Donna, Clarence, and Jennifer. We appreciate you all to the moon and back. And by the way, if you're not yet a patron, you're missing out. Patrons of our show get every episode ad-free, at least a day early, sometimes more,

plus an extra episode a month, and in the higher tiers, you start getting merch, like a free sticker, rad enamel pins. So if you can, come join us. You can follow us on Twitter at TC Campfire, Instagram at True Crime Campfire,

and be sure to like our Facebook page. If you want to support the show and get access to extras, please consider becoming a patron at patreon.com slash true crime campfire.