True Crime Campfire - Less Dead: Serial Killer Robert Willie Pickton Pt 2

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

When we last left off, Willie Pickton was just starting his reign of terror over the women of the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver. Nancy Clark was missing, along with several other women, whose disappearances would never be solved. The Pickton farm was quickly becoming a criminal headquarters, thanks to Dave Pickton’s infatuation with the Hell’s Angels gang. The Vancouver Police didn’t care. The missing women were sex workers and addicts, and therefore, less worthy of effort. The horror of this story is not only the monstrous actions of Willie Pickton, but also the apathy of the same people that were supposed to protect and serve. Join us for part 2 of this chilling story.Free shipping and 365-day returns from Quince: https://quince.com/happycamperTry Magic Mind: You have a limited offer you can use now, that gets you up to 48% off your first subscription or 20% off one time purchases with code TCC20 at checkout! Claim it at: https://magicmind.com/tccpodSources:Cameron, Stevie. On the Farm: Robert William Pickton and the Tragic Story of Vancouver's Missing Women. Knopf Canada. Kindle Edition. https://www.nativehope.org/missing-and-murdered-indigenous-women-mmiw?utm_term=mmiw%20statistics&utm_campaign=MMIW+-+Search&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_tgt=kwd-1652454857508&hsa_grp=144380966783&hsa_src=g&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_mt=b&hsa_ver=3&hsa_ad=646853914079&hsa_acc=3651624507&hsa_kw=mmiw%20statistics&hsa_cam=19633980915&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwlbu2BhA3EiwA3yXyu8y0N86jvR6NFomqQUWY1AD3h0y48ITuUopInfNw6Tb_MBFkRKbaRhoC0ikQAvD_BwEThe Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/aug/05/features11.g2Follow us, campers!Patreon (join to get all episodes ad-free, at least a day early, an extra episode a month, and a free sticker!): https://patreon.com/TrueCrimeCampfirehttps://www.truecrimecampfirepod.com/Facebook: True Crime CampfireInstagram: https://gramha.net/profile/truecrimecampfire/19093397079Twitter: @TCCampfire https://twitter.com/TCCampfireEmail: [e-mail]! https://true-crime-campfire.myspreadshop.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-campfire--4251960/support.

Hello, campers. Grab your marshmallows and gather around the true crime campfire. We're your camp counselors. I'm Katie. And I'm Whitney. And we're here to tell you a true story that is way stranger than fiction. We're roasting murderers and marshmallows around the true crime campfire. When we last left off, Willie Picton was just starting his reign of terror over the women of the downtown east side of Vancouver. Nancy Clark was missing, along with several other women whose disappearances would never be solved. The Picton Farm was quickly becoming a criminal headquarters, thanks to Dave Pickton's infatuation with the Hell's Angels gang. The Vancouver police didn't care. The missing women were

sex workers and addicts and therefore less worthy of effort. The horror of this story is not only the monstrous actions of Willie Picton, but also the apathy of the same people that were supposed to protect and serve. This is part two of less dead, the crimes of Willie Picton. Despite his many, many disgusting faults, Willie had no problem befriending women. In fact, most of his friends were women.

The thing to understand about Willie is that he absolutely used his appearance and apparent stupidity to get people to lower their guard, and then, after they were closer, he could reveal more. Remember in the last episode how many people said Willie was actually pretty smart? Yeah, that was the point. Dave Picton did the same stuff. Dave owned several businesses, managed his money, and had a criminal empire, but when he showed up in court, he'd purposefully talk low, swearing up a storm in front of the judge, so they would underestimate him. Willie was no different. His best friend was a woman named Lisa Yelds, a mother of three who lived next door to the Picton farm.

Her stories about him give us a unique perspective on who Willie was. They met when Lisa was worried about her son Rocky. He was out with a friend on New Year's Eve and she was getting worried. She searched her son's room and found the phone number for Rocky's friend. When she called, she told the man who answered that her son Rocky was out with his friend DJ and she was afraid he was going to get into some trouble. The man told her he'd take care of it. Before long, Willie Picton brought her son home. He'd been out with Dave Pickton's son, Willie's nephew. It didn't take long for them to forge a friendship. In a weird bit of kismet, they'd actually met decades before. When Lisa was a young girl, she'd been abandoned by her parents and was raised by her grandparents. She was half Chinese, which made her different from the other kids. She struggled a lot and felt like an outsider. One day, her grandfather took her to the Picton family meat store.

While there, a blonde little boy smiled at her and gave her a bag of hot dogs. That always cracks me up for some reason. She said it was like a present, and that I wasn't used to people being nice to me. I never forgot him. Through their relationship, we get a unique view of Willie's life. They would talk on the phone for hours, and she'd help on the farm and in Willie's house, cleaning up as best she could I can't imagine how successful

that would be you'd need a shovel I would think but bless her for trying she was one of the only people who could convince him to bathe she'd be like dude you stink or in the most Canadian accent you can imagine Willie you're getting a little ripe there I think you kind of need a bath

and a change of clothes here pal because you're getting a little rude eh that was terrible I'm so sorry remember this was a man you could smell from the space station, so she was being super polite to him, especially since he'd constantly yell at her for smoking in his house. Listen, I hate the smell of cigarettes more than just about anyone, but the idea that this giant, stinky man who had no problem with smelling like, oh, to dead raccoon, but cigarettes wear his limit? For real? I know. It's bizarre. Willie really,

quote, liked having a clean bathroom, clean clothes, and the table says, properly for dinner, but he wouldn't do it himself. Lisa thought that it was because she made life more normal for him, and that being normal was something he craved. We think it's because Willie is a giant man baby who's too lazy to use a vacuum or, you know, a washcloth, or toenail clippers, because by the way, Lisa noticed that Willie never cut his toenails and they were constantly at least, oh God, an inch long, it's so gross. I really need everyone to visualize this nightmare of a human being.

Tall, pale, with long, stringy hair, slightly hunched, always slightly covered in blood and pig shit, smelling like a middle school boy's bathroom, with toenails so long you could use them as backscratchers. The toenails is the limit for me. That is just the grossest thing I've ever an inch long. Like he must have had to wear shoes a size too big. bananas. I feel like this could be a creature in an episode of Scary You to Sleep with Shelby Novak, you know?

She needs to do a fictionalized The Stink Man, you know. Lisa would stay over with Willie and watch movies. When he could pick, he'd pick out crime movies, and whenever the pressure was on, he'd tense up and shield his eyes. Lisa told author Stevie Cameron that Willie couldn't bear suspense.

When they'd go show, shopping together, Willie would show her how he'd get the best deals. By stealing. He'd switch price tags. While they were at the store, Lisa would push him to pick up some fresh produce, but Willie refused. All he'd eat was meat, especially pork, potatoes with milk or orange juice and ice cream for dessert. You know that didn't help the smell. Oh, my God. Well, at least with the orange juice, he's not going to get scurvy. Yeah, but seriously, the added stench of like just sweating meat out of your pores. Oh, no fruit or veggies, just dairy and protein.

You know this man had absolutely lethal farts. I just can... I have never disliked you more than I do right now. Look, I'm just calling it like I see it. I'm sorry. Willie's brother Dave hated Lisa. He'd greet her like, hi, you fucking loser. How are you?

Oh, that's charming. First of all, nice one, man. You really showed her. Second of all, what? You're a putrid, grimy man who's such a damp squib yourself that you weren't good enough to be anything more than a groupie to a biker gang. You want to call Lisa a loser. Okay. Willie was definitely submissive to his brother, but when Dave tried to trip Lisa one day after she got sassy with him,

Willie, quote, charged his brother and kicked him, knocking him down, and then started laughing hysterically. It was clear that Willie admired Lisa. She was smart and brave, fiercely loyal. He'd push her to better herself. When she told him that she'd never get her license because she was too stupid, he pushed her over and over again until she finally succeeded. We say this to establish that Lisa wasn't stupid or oblivious. Willie really did care for her.

He was an actual friend to her. He'd, like, bring her groceries and meat. She had no idea that he'd cruise around the downtown East Side looking for sex workers. He specifically kept that from her. Sometimes Lisa would sleep over with Willie in his bed. She insists that it was never, ever sexual. She gets defensive over him, too. Some people say that Willie was violent because he had a sexual dysfunction,

but Lisa makes sure to dispel that rumor. He'd often wake up next to her with Morningwood, but he was a gentleman. He never tried anything with her. So this is most likely due to something that psychologists call the Madonna-horred dichotomy. I'm sure you all have heard of this. It's the perception that women are either pure, motherly caretakers or bad seductive whores. Many serial killers are able to behave normally with women that they view as virtuous, but are violent and hateful toward women who don't fit into their personal, moral puzzle box.

That's the thing about men like Willie. Often the people around them have no idea how dangerous they can be because they are able to divide their life between their two selves. the normalish, functioning-ish member of society and the cruel, murderous freak. It's not really about the women at all. It's about the dichotomy within themselves. And for the record, every single one of these dudes is about as phony as a $3 bill. You are seeking out sex workers. You are offering them drugs.

You're making them play a game that they never agreed to play. It's like a raccoon hand trap. They were punished for reaching for what was offered. Yeah, Bundy's a great example of that, although his prey was college girls. But it's the same, you know, that compartmentalization of the different parts of themselves. And you usually won't see the masks slip unless you're getting ready to die. Right. It's very scary. Interestingly, Lisa Yelts told Stevie Cameron that Willie reminded her of Ed Gein.

Their stories are similar. Submissive, meek men raised by domineering mothers in rural areas, comfortable with slaughter from years of working with livestock, shy and perceived as harmless. Ed Gein, as you probably know, Campers, was a serial killer and grave robber. He'd started out grave robbing to collect parts for a suit made out of women's skin. He eventually killed two women before he was caught. The difference between Gein and Willie, though, is that Ed Gein is pretty universally considered to have been criminally insane, whereas Willie was crazy like a fox. Yeah. Lisa was obsessed with serial killers.

She read voraciously about them, having a wall full of bookshelves in her home dedicated. to true crime. I think some part of her sense that something was wrong with Willie. She said, I always had this thought at the back of my mind that Willie could be a serial killer. She says no, but I was never afraid of him myself. I knew he would never hurt me. As for why she didn't tell anyone, she said, they would have thought I was crazy. It was just an idea as all. And she's right. No one would have believed her if she'd called up the police and said, hello, yes, I think my bestie is a serial killer. I mean, look at how they were treating actual open cases. Yeah.

As we were discussing in the last episode, the Vancouver police would rather walk barefoot on broken glass than investigate the women going missing in the downtown east side of Vancouver. That much was clear. In 1989, a group helmed by indigenous women from the area started putting the pressure on police to take action. In 1991, the same year that Nancy Carter had gone missing, they established a yearly remembrance walk on Valentine's Day for all of Vancouver's missing. women. But the police continued to knew nothing. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police, however, decided to assemble a team. It was time to bring in the profilers. So most of y'all probably already know, but criminal profiling is actually a fairly new type of investigation. The man credited with masterminding the art of criminal profiling, as we know it today, is an FBI agent named

John Douglas. Longtime listeners might remember that we refer to him as Daddy Douglas. In 1972, the FBI established the behavioral science unit. John Douglas and Robert Ressler started interviewing dozens of serial killers and establishing a baseline of behavior that could be expected out of serial murderers. Douglas wrote, The criminal profiling process is defined by the FBI as a technique used to identify the perpetrator of a violent crime by identifying the personality and behavioral characteristics of the offender based upon an analysis of the crime committed.

Two investigators in the 80s and 90s, you might as well have suggested that they use a Ouija board to find the killer. There were many, many cops who thought profiling was junk science. In 1984, the BSU was in full swing and offered training to investigators all over the country, and some internationally too. One such international student was named Ron McKay, a Mountie who spent a year at the FBI's office in Quantico, Virginia. He'd been a homicide investigator for years, and frankly, he was skeptical about profiling, but after he graduated, he was as dogmatic as they came. In fact, fictional detective Tony Hill from the books and series called Wire in the Blood is based on him. That's a great, great series. It's really dark and gritty. Oh, I love that show. He and Senior Ontario Police Detective Kate Lines set up Canada's own profiler school.

The RCMP is kind of like the United States FBI. When local police are fucking up, they're usually the ones that pick up the slack. McKay and his protege Keith Davidson set about cracking open the files on 25 sex worker murders. Their assignment was called Project Eclipse. Very cool. As they were starting their work in earnest, Nancy Clark went missing. In October 1991, Project Eclipse assembled seven profilers for a brainstorming blitz, during which they tried to get a handle on what they were looking at. Was it one very prolific killer, or was it several?

By the end of their session, they found that only four murders had a through line. The rest were in clusters of two or three. But still, discovering one serial killer based on 25 murders, that's pretty impressive stuff, especially because profiling at this point was still in its infancy. When they presented their findings to the Vancouver PD, however, they were met with eye rolls. One profiler that was part of Project Eclipse was killed.

Kim Rosmo. Rossmo worked for the Vancouver PD as a constable. His beat was the downtown east side and he knew something was wrong there. He's one of the good cops we've told you about. He's actually credited with inventing geographic profiling based on the hypothesis that serial killers operate in territories they're familiar with and where they feel comfortable. It makes total sense. Most people exist in the neighborhoods that they live in. They shop, they go out to eat, they have hobbies, so it's logical to assume that serial killers would operate in a similar way. I mean, why would they go out of their way to hunt in unfamiliar territory? Rosmo asserted that the only time that serial killers target victims in unfamiliar places

is when they start getting overconfident or are forced to do it. Yeah, both Ted Bundy and the Green River killer Gary Ridgeway's dumping grounds were found and force them to move and change their MO. Yeah. Rosmo was all kinds of done with the VPD. Recalling the failure of Project Eclipse, he said, We were telling the VPD, you have at least one serial killer here, and maybe two or three. But the VPD was not jumping up to take on serial murder cases when they were handed to them. Why?

Laziness. Lack of resources, the cost, the energy required, but most of all, no roadmap. The profile didn't say what to do next. There's a lot of truth to that. serial murderer cases are unbelievably complicated. You have a series of unrelated murderers linked by one or two things, and then you have to build a case. That's not an excuse, by the way. The Vancouver PD were made up of tween girls instead of grown adults.

Kim Rosmoe is like super cool, by the way. He's a math genius, a computer genius, and best of all, not afraid to tell the Vancouver PD to go fuck themselves, which makes him a superhero in my book. For example, one time a criminology professor and friend named Neil Boyd approached him once after seeing a true crime documentary on TV that was stuck in his craw. The show was about David Milgard, who at 16 had been convicted of the sexual assault and murder of Gail Miller, a nursing student. He was convicted based on coerced confessions from two of his friends and had been

serving life in prison at Stony Mountain Penitentiary in Manitoba. His parents were working tirelessly to get somebody to pay attention to their son's plight. Rosmo and Boyd went to Manitoba to interview David, the witnesses, the family, and the police. Based partially on these interviews, Milgard was exonerated in 1992, and another man, Larry Fisher, was connected by DNA to the crime. When he got back to Vancouver, some of his colleagues seemed confused. He said, when we got back, a couple of detectives on major crime came in to discuss their cases,

and one of them said they noticed my involvement in the Milgard case in the paper. And he asks, what are you doing with this? I said, there are lots of reasons to think Milgard is innocent. And then he said to me, this isn't the sort of thing we do. It's not what we do. Then you and I have a fundamental difference of opinion on what it is the police do. Damn right. I get chills every time I hear that.

He's such a badass. Like, yeah, of course, of course we do. We look for justice. There was a miscarriage of justice in this case. Of course I'm going to try and find if he's innocent. Are you fucking kidding me? That's so messed up. By 1995, Rosmo had a doctorate in criminology and was jet-setting around the world giving talks on geographic profiling.

He developed a computer program that could map out most likely areas that serial killers were located, which would go on to help solve dozens of cases. Meanwhile, at home, his VPD colleagues treated him like the scum of the earth. They saw him as this highfalutin jerk that was high off his own smug. He used a computer program to find serial killers. What happened to going out in the community, talking to people, listening to their families? Which they were very much also not doing, by the way. It's the principal. This is why I called them tween girls because they're just so weird and mean and backstabby, just out of spite.

There was no reason, no professional reason to act this way. As far as we can tell, in his years at VPD, they never once used Rosmo's services. Kim is a little understanding. His geographical profiling program wouldn't have necessarily helped them because they weren't sure where the women were taken from. They just knew where they lived. But he had experience with serial killers. That's where he could have helped.

Woman after woman continued to disappear without a trace, leaving their families to wonder where they'd gone, hoping against hope that they'd turn back up. Tanya Holick was a First Nations woman from Klemtu, a tiny fishing village far north of Vancouver. Tanya's family remembers how kind and ambitious she was. She was 115 pounds and stood at 5'6 with long, dark, curly hair and big brown eyes. She moved to the city where she met a musician named Gary Silcott, who, according to the book on the farm, had a history of girlfriends who were prostitutes and drug addicts.

See, that's how you know this book was published in 2010, because today we would call him a sex trafficker. Remember, you're not about to be kidnapped out of a Target parking lot. Most likely. I mean, it's like you're more likely to be struck by lightning. Right. Traffickers target people they have control over, like their children or girlfriends. There's a grooming process. They're not just snatching you out of a parking lot. Yeah, really, like most sex traffickers or human traffickers, they're brilliant manipulators. They will make it seem, they will make their victim feel like it's their idea. Yeah, they don't need to grab people. That's not their MO.

Tanya got pregnant and managed to get sober for her baby. She eventually had to get a restraining order against Gary, who became violent, but as time passed, they worked to co-parent, and it was going pretty well until on October 29, 1996, Gary picked up the baby from Tanya and agreed to keep him an extra day so Tanya could go to a Halloween party. But on November 1st, Tanya still wasn't back home. Her mom attempted to report her daughter missing, but the Vancouver PD told her, oh, your daughter's just out having fun.

Don't bother us. Don't waste our time. Jeez. Is there a way to like put a retroactive hex on these people? Like just send it through the winds of time like all the way back to the 90s. Yeah, I'll look into it. Time travel curs has seen like a fantastic business idea. No kidding. It took two full days of calling until the VPD finally filed a report. Tanya's sister wrote letters and sent them to all her sister's known hangouts.

She would write, I hope you're out there and see this. Please, please tell me you're okay. I love you a lot. Her letters went unanswered. Tracy Bayon recognized Willie as a regular in the neighborhood. His truck would often trawl along the street picking women up. She's a tall woman standing at around 5'10 with a flaming head of curly red hair. She and her husband were really struggling with addiction. Tracy had five kids, and if she wanted to see them again, she'd need to get sober. When Willie stopped to pick her up, asking for a blowjob, the smell almost made her refuse.

But the money was good, so she got in. Imagine being in that situation where you have to... It's horrible. When they got to the farm, she went into his trailer and they did their business. Afterwards, Willie started acting jumpy looking around his room. He said, I can't find my wallet. And then pulled a knife on her, accusing her of stealing. He cut the buttons off her short.

shirt as she shoved him away and went outside. After a bit, he emerged from the trailer and offered to drive her back into town. In the car, he started chatting with her. He told her that he, quote, liked helping working girls and liked helping them kick their drug habit. But he gave them only one chance, he told her. If they go back to dope, well, then they don't deserve to live. They're useless. They're better off dead. Wow. Tracy recalls this story in tears. Willie assumed that she didn't do drugs since she hadn't done any in front of him. She did, but she didn't get high with clients. It was a rule that probably saved her life. Tracy had an interesting observation about Willie. She said he'd help the girls, especially the ones in withdrawal. He would talk to the girls

downtown. He tried to make friends with them and they would trust him. He would promise to help you kick the dope. But once a girl tries to quit and doesn't succeed, then they're useless. When they'd go back to the dope, he'd say, you're useless. Just fucking bitches. he was too scared to go to the cops, but she did put his name on the women's information safe house bad date list, which kept a lot of women from getting into his truck. Bless her for that. Diana Melnick had a good childhood that masked a troubled upbringing. Her family had enough money to send her to a private school. One of her classmates wrote a post on a missing person's website about her. It read, I remember she loved horses and would never wear her skirt for our

uniformed. Always in Jodpur's, very happy, didn't like mornings and always talking about boys. I contacted our school about her. They're praying and sending condolences as well. I don't remember the last time I saw her. We used to hang out in our mutual friend's bedroom and listen to heavy metal and gossip about boys, the dance coming up next, and her boyfriend in Vancouver. I hope someone finds her and brings her home. Her arrest record contained four prostitution charges, theft and a failure to appear. She'd been arrested for fraud and shoplifting. For that charge, she was supposed to be in court on August 24, 1995, so she got another failure to appear charge. Her grandmother had died in December and left her $6 million fortune and home to be divided among her children and

grandchildren. Diana's step-grandfather had named her in a lawsuit because he was pissed off that his wife didn't leave him enough. By the way, his wife left him 30K per year and a like 250K lump sum, he was fine. He was really just being super extra. So Diana was a millionaire. Did she know? We have no idea. The lawsuit was kind of a blessing in disguise. No one had been looking for her, but when she was supposed to appear in court on December 27th, and when she didn't, her family filed a missing person's report. At the time she disappeared, she was living on Skid Row. She was deep in the throes of addiction and was rarely coherent. She was never seen, alive or dead, again. Kara Ellis had been working as a sex worker

since she was 13. Despite her clearly troubled life, she stayed in touch with her family. Her nieces and nephews remember playing hopscotch with her and playing pretend with their auntie. She loved writing and journaled extensively. She'd been to rehab several times, but nothing stuck, except for her close friendship with her rehab roomy, Maggie Gale. Both Maggie and Cara relapsed and stayed close. Kara was living in what the girls all called a ho-den, which was a property run by one of the many gangs on the downtown east side. The rules were simple.

Ten bucks to bring a client back to the room, and if you wanted drugs, you had to buy them from the gang, and if you didn't, you'd be beaten. Kara broke the rules, and as a result was beaten by some Hell's Angels and sent to the hospital. On January 20, 1997, she was discharged from the hospital's. to go to another appointment. She never made it, and Maggie didn't see her again until March 3rd. Maggie was going to give rehab another go and wanted her best friend to go with her. Kara refused.

Maggie went to rehab, and when she came back in the middle of April, totally sober, she couldn't find her again. Maggie said, I always hoped to find her. I hope to meet her at an AA meeting. The last time anyone saw Kara Ellis was March 10th, just a week after her friend begged her to leave. Carra's family, who knew that she'd sometimes go off grid, started looking for her, but weren't particularly worried yet. She'd called asking for money, and when she was told no, her family says she'd usually stop calling for a while. They did end up reporting her missing in August and were met with, you guessed it, apathy. They told her they'd look, but if Kara didn't

want to be found, the family wouldn't hear. Her sister-in-law, who filed the report, said the police, quote, did not treat her like a missing person. And the Vancouver PD told her it was because her sister-in-law hadn't married Kara's brother yet. So therefore, she wasn't family. And only family could file missing person's reports. Jeez, what is this the freaking Da Vinci code? Only when the sun crests in the sky and you stand on the Capilano suspension bridge, may you report your loved one missing. Yeah, so if someone without a family goes missing, I guess they should go fuck themselves. And remember that Tanya Holick's mother called, and they said, oh, sorry there, but she's probably just partying, don't you know? The police, like, created a catch-22 for these families.

You could never report your loved one missing. Like, it's awful. It just, it's unbelievable. Kara's sister-in-law said that part of why this was not looked upon as important enough was because of the style of life she had. And I feel that was a problem with most of the missing girls. We saw that in the Dellen Millard case, if you're not. recall another Canadian, you know, serial killer case where a woman went missing and it wasn't taken seriously. And if they had taken it seriously, then this prick probably would not have gone on

to kill other people. The worst. You know, Canada, Canada of police forces, you're on thin fucking ice here at True Crime Campfire. Just two days after Cara went missing, Wendy Lynn Eystetter had her encounter with Willie Picton that left her hospitalized and him under scrutiny. When Wendy Lynn came to consciousness, she was greeted by the police. She told her story about her trip to the farm, about his strange room, about the handcuffs, about the fight. They took notes, asked her a few questions, and returned her belongings except for the drugs she had on her. The father of her children visited her and urged her to get sober, and she tried. She really, really did. But she ended up back on the downtown east side,

but stopped sex work. She solely sold drugs. can't seem to find what happened to her after this, but I hope to God she found some peace. I hope so, too. Willie, on the other hand, was stumbling his way to the hospital. First, he drove himself to the police station, but it was closed, and then he went to the hospital where he was stabilized and given 150 stitches. I've been trying to parse out why he'd go to the police station first. He told his brother that it was because he got confused, but I actually have a theory. I think he wanted to tell his story to the police first.

Oh, yeah, like, just get ahead of it. That makes sense. The rural hospital he drove to actually transferred him to the same hospital that Wendy Lynn was recuperating at, which just gives me the chills. Like, it makes me nauseous. When the police questioned him, he said that Wendy Lynn approached him while he was sleeping in his pickup. Lye. That she wanted to charge him $200. Lie. That he had $3,000 in cash on the table and she took a knife and demanded the money.

Lie. She tried to stab him, and he had to take it to defend himself. And lie. So, yeah, just a whole metric ton of bullshit. When recalling the story to his brother or Lisa, he'd point toward the articles, all titled stuff like 49-year-old man to be charged and attempted murder and sadly go, The woman, you don't hear about her at all. My heart bleeds for you, you piece of fucking shit. Lisa yelled agreed to come stay with Willie as his caretaker.

She'd clean up his trailer, make sure he was taking his meds, and change out his bandages. Dave told her that he'd pay her, but of course he never did. Willie, who'd never really been violent in front of Lisa, except towards his brother, scared her when he talked about Wendy Lynn. He said, I want you to find out where she lives. I'm going to deal with her myself. Lisa, of course, did not find Wendy Lynn for him. Now, the police were incompetent, not stupid, so they charged him with attempted murder, unlawful confinement, and aggravated assault.

In response, Willie hired Peter Ritchie, a well-known and expensive defense attorney. His office charged 10 grand, and they hired a PI to go follow Wendy Lynn around and dig up some dirt. You can see what kind of defense they're going for, right? Your Honor, my client couldn't help himself because the victim was a filthy, filthy sex worker, which clearly makes her subhuman. Yeah, I don't know if I'd be throwing around the word filthy if I were you, Willie. It was all for naught, though. Wendy Lynn was too terrified to show up in court.

The charges were dropped. By the way, remember how I ranted for like 10 minutes last episode about what a pointless liar, Willie was? Yeah, he told people that the attorney was charging him $80,000. Like, what was the point of that? Why would lie about that? 10K is an impressive number, dude. It didn't make any sense. Now, how in the world did Smelly Willie Pigman have the money for a high-priced attorney?

Well, land is money, and Linda Picton was a realtor. The Picton's siblings sold parcels of land piece by piece to developers and made $5.23 million off the sale. Linda insists that they didn't really make any money due to infrastructure expenses, but Willie seemed to always have a wad of cash on him, enough to throw his weight around, enough to pay sex workers to drive to his farm to party. The brothers certainly did not use that money to improve the farm. They did, however, open the Piggy Palace Good Times Society, which has to be the best name ever for an establishment. The Piggy Palace Good Times Society, owned and operated by the world's stinkiest millionaire.

Opened in 1995, the Piggyll. Maggie Palace was Dave Picton's personal playground. He picked the name based on his and his brother's childhood nickname. It was basically just a big metal building with a stage. Allegedly, the food there was good, and they hired a woman to cook and also served Willie's barbecued pork. They also served a ton of booze and so many drugs. Many sex workers frequented the place, and Willie and Dave were known for providing the drugs if a girl wanted them. You know we hate to acknowledge the successes of terrible people, but the Piggy Palace was a success, but mostly because all their clients were Hell's Angels, which the surrounding neighbors did not like. I wonder why. They had already run a

cockfighting ring at the farm, so the clientele of the Piggy Palace was pretty unsavory from the jump. In fact, some of the neighbors tried suing the brothers, but because local police and politicians attended the palace's parties, it didn't really go anywhere. Isn't that just delightful, gross? Willie was so excited about the business that he wanted to turn over a new leaf he wanted a girlfriend so it was time to take a deep breath, bite the bullet and pay attention to his hygiene

he showed up at the Piggy Palace wearing brand new clothes freshly showered and wearing a $2,300 to-pay One of the farmhands that helped out at the bar said that his jaw was on the floor when Willie walked in And he said, Jesus Christ, you look pretty. Aw.

Did time slow down? Was there like a soulful love song playing? Did the light hit him just right? Was there wind blowing through Willie's fake hair? It's like, at last. Willie complained constantly about the toupee, saying that he'd never paid more than $3 for a haircut in his life. And here he was dropping over $2,000 on a hair system. But nothing golden ever stays, and Willie didn't realize that you have to, like, maintain a toupee.

Instead, he'd wear this thing all over the place, including repairing cars, where he'd be covered head-toe in grease. He had to toss the thing because it just got too ratty to wear. It turned into, if you will, a hell toupee. Hell to pay. I got it. No, it's good. just replace it with a dead squirrel and move on man that would be very on brand for you just glue it right on there one of willie's friends was a woman named gina houston she's an incredibly fascinating person and she's the only person who knew both sides of willie she first met him in 1994 or 95 when she was downtown spotting a friend of hers which meant that she'd remember cars and license plate numbers as her friend worked she considered herself more of a con artist

than a sex worker and use sex to con her Johns out of money. One of her favorite scams was to get a guy naked and then steal his wallet and his car, which is very, very wrong, but also maybe just the tiniest bits, a little bit funny. Just a little funny campers. It's like that episode of Seinfeld where George Costanza picks up that woman on the subway and she does that to him. She described sex work as a job like any other. There's different levels of prostitution, she says.

I mean, it's all about, I mean, door-to-door salesmen sell themselves. If you can sell yourself, you can sell your product, right? So I guess you could say there's different levels in every way people are prostituting themselves out to get what they want, right? In my life on the streets, I've always been a con artist. And if you can sell the person on yourself, you can pretty much get whatever you want out of him. In another less grimy life, she would have been a high-powered executive. And by the way, I'm not calling her grimy for anything aside from what we're about to tell you. Yeah.

She got into sex work as many women in this story because of an adult boyfriend when she was 16. Eventually, she started subletting rooms and houses she rented to other sex workers and supplying them drugs. Eventually, she was a full-fledged madam, scheduling clients and taking a cut from the girls. She was one of the better places for girls to end up. She vetted her clients and made sure the girls were home at the end of the night. Don't get too attached. though. You'll find out Gina was not really a girl's girl. When Willie picked up her friend, Gina waited until the pair was done and Willie left without incident.

But she remembers how comfortable and articulate he was. He wasn't meek or blushing. He was confident and he knew what he wanted. When she met with Willie again years later, she was still struggling with addiction. Her alcoholism was so bad that her daughter would have to make her a drink to coax her out of bed. She was still doing some sex work and doing drugs when she met with Willie. again. At this time, though, she was making most of her money as a private foster mother, which meant she was fostering kids outside the purview of the government. The three children she was fostering were from women who felt they could no longer care for them and were paying her to take care of their kids. She also had two of her own children to care

for and money was tight. It's not super clear how they reconnected, but Willie definitely knew about her work. In fact, he would use it to his advantage. Willie, could be relied upon to bring her groceries or meat from the farm. To Gina, Willie was a mark. She had him figured out. She knew that he would be upset if she dated one of his brother's friends, for example, or if he knew about her common law relationship with a drug dealer. She doted on Willie at the Piggy Palace, and Willie preened under the attention of a pretty woman. Like anyone else that got close to Willie, David did not approve, but Gina was made of tougher stuff than that. She stuck her nose into everything. She wanted to know about the girls that

that Willie was bringing home and would be jealous and angry about it. She wanted to be in his business. She was all over the place. And before long, she was calling herself engaged to Willie and using the name Gina picked in. According to both Gina and Willie, though, they never had sex. Their relationship could be better described as professional, just a very basic professional relationship. You know, he'd bring her food and she'd simply go find girls to bring back to the farm for him

and one of his friends. By the way, the friend was named Pat Casanova, and despite that very cool name, he was a pretty uncool guy. Yeah, he was a weird little freak who helped with the cockfights and really enjoyed violence against animals, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. So Gina would go to the downtown east side and be like, oh, I've got a friend, he's got a lot of dope and cash, he's up for a party out of his place, and he can take us all. Thankfully, many women didn't trust her. Gina was a known entity in the area, but so was Willie. He was on the bad date list, and his farm was far away. Many wouldn't risk it, but some still did.

The money was good and Gina was going to be there. It was safe, right? Then, Wendy Lynn was attacked. It confirmed what most of the women feared. Willie was dangerous. They would not go to his farm anymore, unless they were really desperate. Kelly Little was one of the downtown East Side's transgender sex workers. She was removed from her mom's custody at three years old and was raised in foster care.

Kelly was plagued with health issues that followed her her whole life. She had a cleft palate, a jaw deformity, and one working kidney. She was small in stature, just five, three, had dark hair and dark eyes. Her parents were First Nations, and she tended to move back and forth between Vancouver and her community. She had a pet kitty that she loved dearly. On April 23rd, 1997, she went missing, worrying her landlady who knew Kelly would never abandon her cat. That night, she was supposed to stay the night with Gina Houston. Kelly and Gina had sort of a symbiotic relationship.

Kelly would go work the streets and bring Gina the money who would go get drugs. Gina later said that she thought Kelly was out meeting one of her regulars and wasn't disturbed when Kelly didn't return that night. A few days later, Gina's neighbors called the cops, saying that they heard a woman screaming coming from Gina's yard. Police served her a search warrant, linking her to Kelly Little's disappearance, but nothing was found, and Kelly Little was never seen again. We're obviously trying to take time to discuss the lives of each of the victims in this case. Unfortunately, as in most prolific killer cases, many victims haven't been confirmed. We'll eventually list all the women who've been linked to this case, but we're going to focus most on the women who

were most likely to have been victims as outlined in our sources. So that was part two, and oh, this one is such a big story that it's going to be our first ever three-parter. So we'll have the finale for you next week. But for now, lock your doors, light your lights, and stay safe until we get together again around the true crime campfire. And as always, we want to send a grateful shout out to a few of our lovely patrons. Thank you so much to Maria, Jessica Ann, Teran, Morgan, Jasmine with a Z, very cool, Nicole, and Nienka. And I hope I didn't butcher your name, Nianca. If I did, please tell me, and I'll fix it. We appreciate y'all to the moon and back. And if you're not yet a patron, you are missing out. Patrons of our show get every episode

ad-free, at least a day early, sometimes even two, plus tons of extra content like patrons-only episodes and hilarious post-show discussions. And once you hit the $5 and up categories, you get even more cool stuff. A free sticker at $5, a rad enamel pin or fridge magnet while supplies last at 10, virtual events with Katie and me, and we're always looking for new stuff to do for you. So if you can, come join us at patreon.com slash true crime campfire. For great TCCC merch, visit the True Crime Campfire Store at Spreadshirt.com. Check out our website at truecrimecampfirepod.com.

And guess what? Tomorrow is our fifth anniversary. Five years. We've been at this for five. years folks and we are still loving every minute of it. Thank you for listening. We appreciate you.