True Crime Campfire - Love Bomb: The Murder of Marcus Toney, Pt. 2

Episode Date: April 24, 2020

In Part 1, we told you about the horrific bombing murder of Marcus Toney. Before he was murdered, Marcus had recently been the victim of identity theft, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And he, his attorney, and the private investigator he’d hired to look into the theft, suspected his estranged wife Lisa and her mysterious new boyfriend, whose name Marcus didn’t know. We know, though, don’t we campers? It’s Sienky Lallemand, a career con man and identity thief who seems to have romanced Lisa Toney into feeding him her husband’s personal information and using it to buy designer jewelry and luxury cars. It didn’t seem like a coincidence that Marcus ended up murdered right as he was starting to figure out who was responsible for ruining his credit and throwing him into six figures worth of fraudulent debt. Investigators were starting to zero in on Lisa and Sienky, and things were about to get real interesting. Join us now for part 2 of this bizarre story.Sources:"Seduced" by Joy Bergmann. Chicago Reader, May 2002. https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/seduced/Content?oid=908545Oxygen's "Snapped: Killer Couples," Episode "Sienky Lallemand and Lisa Toney"Investigation Discovery's "Wicked Attraction," Episode "Lust for Life"Follow us, campers!Patreon (join to get all episodes a day early, an extra episode a month, and a free sticker!): https://patreon.com/TrueCrimeCampfireFacebook: True Crime CampfireInstagram: https://gramha.net/profile/truecrimecampfire/19093397079Twitter: @TCCampfire https://twitter.com/TCCampfireEmail: [e-mail] a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-campfire--4251960/support.

Hello campers. Grab your marshmallows and gather around the true crime campfire. We're your camp counselors. I'm Katie. And I'm Whitney. And we're here to tell you a true story that is way stranger than fiction. We're roasting murderers and marshmallows around the true crime campfire. In part one, we told you about the horrific bombing murder of Marcus Tony. Before he was murdered, Marcus had recently been the victim of identity theft to the tune. To the tomb. of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And he, his attorney, and the private investigator he'd hired to look into the theft, suspected his estranged wife Lisa and her mysterious new boyfriend, whose name Marcus didn't know. We know, though, don't we campers? It's Sienki Lalimand, a career con man and identity thief who seems to have romance Lisa Tony into feeding him her husband's personal information and using it to buy designer jewelry and luxury cars. It didn't seem like a coincidence that Marcus ended up murdered right as he was starting to figure out who

is responsible for ruining his credit and throwing him into six figures worth of fraudulent debt. Investigators were starting to zero in on Lisa and Sienke, and things were about to get real interesting. Join us now for part two of Love Bomb, the murder of Marcus Tony. So, of course, being a fraudster and being a murderer are two different things. Sienke's con man and extortionist tendencies didn't prove he was involved in Marcus's murder. But now, that they'd learned about Sianke's history and had the phone records to prove he and Lisa were still in contact, the investigators needed to go back and confront Lisa. So, uh, Lisa, you said you hadn't been in contact with Sianke for months. Your phone records beg to differ.

Lisa was all like, okay, okay, okay, okay, look. I am still in contact with him. You got me there. But we're not dating. We only dated for like a little while after Marcus and I separated. Now, Cianke is just my financial counselor. Financial advisor. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. Because the best person for that job is naturally a career. con man. Sure, that tracks. Sure, sure. Yeah. They asked Lisa if she'd be willing to take a polygraph. And she said she would. So they hooked her up. Did she have any involvement in her husband's death? Did she know for sure who did? Lisa answered no and no, and she flunked, abysmally. Lisa still denied any involvement, though. Denied it angrily, in fact. Under more questioning, she finally cracked enough to throw Sianke's chiseled ass under the bus and say he might have gotten access to Marcus's personal information while he was helping her, you know, helping her with her finances because he was her financial counselor. You sound convinced.

Yeah. It sounds like the complete truth to me, Whitney. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I believe it. So they suspected Lisa was lying. But they couldn't prove it just yet. And like I said, fraud doesn't equal murder. Neither Cianke nor Lisa had any history of violence.

And you don't just get the skills to build a pipe bomb out of nowhere. Clearly, there were a lot of questions that the cops needed to answer before they could be sure what had happened to Marcus Tony. And this case really came down to good old-fashioned police work. They looked into the wrapping paper that had been on the VCR box that the bombs came in. Turns out, it was pretty distinctive and pretty rare. Only a small amount had been manufactured.

You know, this would so be my luck if I ever committed a crime. I am sure of it. I've watched enough forensic files to know. I would end up using some flipping, like, beanie hat that would shed fibers all over the crime scene or something, and then they would test the fibers, and it turned out that they only made like four of those beanie hats in the whole world, and they were all sold at one store, and the store had the best surveillance cameras on planet earth and there I'd be buying the damn thing and the next thing you know I'm the star

of the real life orange is the new black that is precisely what would happen to me right I'm sure of it which is why I can never commit a crime be like that and also I'm a goody two shoes the cat hair found at the scene only matches this specific cat it would 100% be cat hair like think about that campers just for fun zies and maybe post in our social media what would get you caught yeah I love that For me, it would definitely be cat hair. For me, it would be me inevitably feeling too guilty and turning myself in. Not if I chain you to the fridge first, KT. You're right.

Partners in Crime forever. So they were able to trace this wrapping paper to a Marshall Fields department store in Chicago, and they found an employee there who remembered wrapping a VCR in that paper about a week earlier. She said that the guy she'd wrapped it for was a young, well-dressed, handsome African-American guy. He'd been charming and unfriendly, and he'd given her a huge tip. He he. When they showed her a photo lineup that included a picture of good old Sienke, she picked him out immediately.

Kaboom! Now they were cooking with gas. But they needed to figure out his motive. It seemed like Sienke was profiting handsomely from stealing Marcus's identity and opening lines of credit in his name. Why would he want to murder? his cash cow. Wouldn't that just bring the free ride to a screeching halt?

They needed to dig a little deeper. And soon, they made an interesting discovery. One of the credit cards that had been taken out in Marx's name had some big cash advances taken out on it at a local bank. And when they pulled security footage from the bank, it wasn't just Cianke the cameras had caught withdrawing cash from his card in Marcus' name. there was a woman making withdrawals too. Apparently, under the name of one of Cianke's ex-girlfriends.

But she wasn't the ex-girlfriend. She was a different lady named Cherry Payne. She and Cianke had been partners off and on for years, both in crime and in sex. I can't bring myself to call it love. Yeah, this guy wouldn't know love if it's bit in his hair. I mean, she might have loved him, but it didn't go both ways. I feel sure of that. Yeah. Sherry was an interesting character. She worked as a burlesque performer in Chicago, and she did a mean impression of Whitney Houston. And she'd done time for fraud.

Sienki had met her at a bar years earlier, and they'd clicked immediately. One of those game recognizes game situations, I guess. They'd moved in together back in the early 90s, and she'd started helping him run identity thefts and other scams. They'd gotten arrested after a little while, of course, when an attentive bank Teller figured out something was up with one of their transactions and called the cops. Both Stinky and Sherry did some time. Sienke did 18 months. I'm not sure how long Sherry did, but as he always had before, Sienke had managed to charm his way into lesser charges, forgery instead of fraud. He always apologized profusely in front of whatever judge was presiding over his case at the time.

He'd say stuff like this. In retrospect, it wasn't a very intelligent thing. to do. It is a question of judgment. Judgment that has been clouded due to a lack of discipline and, as some would say, total disregard for authority. I believe that God does not create junk and that

I am a beautiful child of God and man. In this situation, I have found the seed of a great benefit. But ultimately, it is your assistance that will prove most helpful. So this was very similar to his approach years earlier with the extortion attempt that he'd

made on the closeted gay man. Seam-contride, acknowledge your flaws, then appeal to the judge's ego. It's your resistance that will prove most helpful. You know, sort of prostrate yourself in front of the authority figure. So, Sherry copped to the scams they'd been up to, too. She said they had a pretty foolproof method. Sienke would seduce women who had access to people's social security numbers, credit card numbers, DMV, info, whatever he could use. We talked about this in episode one or part one.

Then, once he'd made them fall for him, and Sweet talked him and to giving him the information he needed. Sherry's job would be to go into the banks and make the withdrawals. Because I guess he wanted to keep himself as removed from it as possible. Sure. So all this was back in 1992, but clearly Sienki and Sherry were still tight right around the time that all this stuff was going on with Marcus Tony, because now they had this security footage of Sherry posing as one of Sienke's ex-girlfriends to get this cash advance on a credit card that he'd taken out in Marcus's name. And by the way, the ex-girlfriend was a Chicago cop. So I'm sure she loved that he involved her in this. and he had put this ex-girlfriend's name on the card as an authorized user.

So I guess Stinky didn't stop using his women even after they broke up. He's a champ, any? So that was interesting. And then when they started going through Lisa's phone and email records, they found something even better. They found a guy in Michigan who was willing to talk and talk he did. He told him Sienke and Lisa were in this thing up to their eyebrows, and Sienke had a bomb maker in his Rolodex. one of Stinky's prison buddies, a guy named Jason Butcher, who had been introduced to Sienke

by none other than his, quote, mother father, sister, brother, slash jailhouse mentor Anthony Gommillion. Remember we talked about him in part one. Now, this Jason kid was a piece of work. When he was 14, 14. He'd been caught building pipe bombs and hiding them in his room. Pipe bombs at 14 years of age. I know, God. I know.

All I was hiding in my room at 14 were my vampire the masquerade role-playing books, because my parents were freaked out by them, and my sad little diary full of cringy poems called Untitled. That's all I had going on at 14. This kid's making bombs. So I would have to say the cheese slid off Jason's Cracker pretty early on in life, wouldn't you say? Oh, yes. Yeah, if it was ever on there in the first place, which is doubtful. And his criminal career only blossomed further from there, which shouldn't surprise anybody. His senior year, and I mean senior year of high school, he was 17, Jason and a few of his jackass friends set up a counterfeit money printing operation in a motel room.

Counterfeit printing operation. I mean, just what? But of course these were kids, and kids usually make for pretty rock stupid criminals. So they didn't dispose of the like mistakes properly. So they just shredded them and just tossed them in the hotel room garbage can. And one of the motel housekeepers found a bunch of them and called the fifth. So, good job, idiots. So anywho, the kid, who was 21 by now, had a history of bomb making.

And according to their Michigan informant, Jason and Sienke, and Lisa, obviously, had planned the bombing together. And Jason and Sienke had gone shopping for the parts together and everything. So they went and bought rocket motor igniters and 9-volt batteries and copper wire and 15 pounds of gunpowder and all this other stuff. And afterward, Jason and Sienke had had a little. bomb-making class at Jason's place. I imagine that was fun. They probably ordered pizza. You know, make a day of it. Put on some music.

The informant said Sienke had gone away with his little handwritten list of instructions and had assembled the bombs at Lisa's place. Yeah. And it was soon after this that the gift wrapper at Marshall Fields remembered somebody matching Sienke's description coming in and asking her to wrap a VCR box in the same bright-colored

paper that they found scattered all over the crime scene. now this informant was kind enough to agree to wear a wire and man he delivered like dominoes he went to see jason he brought up the bombing plot and soon had jackass jason saying on tape i knew that guy was history meaning marcus right so that was enough for the chicago police and the at f to get warrants to surveil the absolute crap out of jason so phone computer home everything and they were hoping that he would lead them to the illegal Mr. Stinky, who had apparently dropped off the face of the planet by now and was laying real, real low. So, after they surveilled Jason online for a while, and after having to watch him post on

AOL under the name Marshall Mathers, which, by the way, is Eminem's name. For Pete's sake, if that doesn't tell you all you need to know about this kid, I don't even know what will. So after, I guess, suffering through as much of that as they could stand, they decided to haul

Jason's dumbass in and see if they could get Sienke's location out of him because they knew he'd been emailing him, right? Okay, we need to back up a little bit because, in fairness to the delinquent, oh, God. I myself had some pretty embarrassing screen names when I was on AIM. If I recall correctly, there was a lot of X's and MCR lyrics. So, you know, glass houses, fleeing stones, et cetera, et cetera. Okay, do you want to know what my handle was?

So much, yes. Whitney. Okay. Well, whatever. Mine was like X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X. There was, there was caps and lowercases. It was just a... It just never occurred to me. Like, I, my name's Whitney. I'm such a freaking nerd. Anyway. I spent so much time trying to think of good, like, like, screen names and away messes. Like, you got to get a good away mess. You know what, though? I, as you know, met my husband online. Like, it wasn't like online dating. It was way before that. was normal. It was just on like, you know, message boards and stuff. And we were the only two

people on the message board where we met who were using our real names. So we were meant for each other. That's perfect. So they hauled Jason in and I know this is going to shock and disappoint you and make you give up on true friendship, but he rolled over on Sienke like immediately. No. I know. It's sad, isn't it? He told him, look, Sienke did ask me to teach him how to build a bomb. Okay, he did. But he didn't tell me what he was going to do with it. okay so let's just think about this for a minute katie campers everybody let's come up with a list of some fun non-lethal non-criminal uses for a pair of flipping pipe bombs okay all right hmm art installation oh okay no actually no they're not that interesting looking and there's a good chance they're gonna blow up

and kill everybody in the gallery true so scratch that um how about flower vases oh nope actually no that's a fail too because you'd have to open up one end of the pipe to stick the flowers in, right? And again, probably going to blow up and kill everyone. So, yeah, you know what? Actually, on reflection, I'm having a hard time thinking of any use for a pair of pipe bombs that isn't, you know, lethal for shit's sake. Well, actually. Oh, geez, I always love it when you say, well, actually at me. Actually, you could use it to go fishing. Fishing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay, what the hell are you talking about fishing? How? Okay, bear with me. You know, you toss it in the water and then boom lots of dead fish floating to the top and it's like

um dinner time oh my god like if you just didn't have access to a rod and reel right and you don't have to be really extra or or special effects in a michael bay movie or ground level fireworks okay i'm just saying okay we're done here i think you've actually proven my point Jason said he had no idea where Stinky was, but the police helpfully reminded him that, you know, a bomb that he helped build was involved in a fucking murder, and it would probably be in his best interest to cooperate. So he agreed, okay, I'll help you find him. I should think so. So Jason, Jackass, reached out to Sienki via email, and he sent several emails and didn't get any response, but finally Stinky responded, and he said, I'm out there, I'm okay. good to know. We're so glad he's okay, right? But our criminal mastermind apparently wasn't mastermindy enough to know that police can track cell phone pings and IP addresses, and the cops were able to trace Jason's

correspondences with him to an address in Los Angeles, California, the home of a wealthy 52-year-old woman named Sandra Lavelle. Oh, Sandra. You dumb bitch. See, Stinky had initially fled to Jamaica after the bombing, and while he was there, he'd put his profile up on an online dating site. Now, was this to find eternal love? Not so much. It was to find, of course, an escape route. And he found it in the person of Ms. Lavelle, who knew

he was on the run and why and didn't give a shit. He was just that pretty, I guess. So, campers, we have said it before. If you think back to our stunning episode a few weeks ago in particular, we'll say it again. Do not let some pretty young thing suck your brains out with a straw. Yep.

Yeah, because there are always more pretty young things who aren't psychopaths. So use your heads. So the cops staked out Sandra's house and a short time later they spotted a guy who bore kind of a resemblance to Stinky coming out the door with big bandages on his face. Y'all, this dipshit had cosmetic surgery on his face to try to disguise himself because apparently this is a movie and plastic surgeons can just turn you into a whole new another person for god's sake unfortunately they did not call in nicholas cage and john travolta to consult on the operation oh my god did you just make a face off oh yes i did see that's quality content i knew i picked you

for a reason ah you give me you give me such warm fuzzies and can we just take a second to remind everyone that this is the guy who called a reporter clarice and said she'd have to prove herself worthy to talk to him. Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to make sure we all remembered that. It's important. So obviously, the surgery didn't work because of fucking course it didn't. And they put the habeas grievous grabus on stinky.

They also arrested Sandra for aiding and abetting a fugitive. We are going to get back to her in a minute because holy shit campers, the backstory on this lady. I know. For now, I'll just wet your appetite with this little nugget of joy. She used to work for the TV show, Cops. Irony. Yeah. We're going to come back to Sandra. But for now, they hauled old Stinky in, positively IDed him, and sat his dumb ass down in the interrogation room. And Mr. Criminal Mastermind started talking. He told them that Lisa was in on the whole thing. In fact, they never broke up. Shocker In a continuation of the game he played with women for years Sianke said Lisa had given him Marcus' personal information so he could steal his

identity. Suddenly, Lisa was going to Michelin Star restaurants, driving luxury cars and walking around in designer clothes. And at the same time, Marcus was getting weird calls from creditors and getting turned down for phone service due to bad credit. It's not surprising. that he was starting to figure out what was up.

I can't imagine how they didn't know from day one minute one that they were going to get caught. It's ridiculous. I don't think they were thinking at all, but whatever. Yeah. Cianke said he and Lisa knew Marcus was on to them about the identity theft. He'd hired a lawyer and a private investigator. He'd threatened to turn Lisa into her employer. It was only a matter of time before he went to the police and sussed out Cianke's involvement.

Finally, Marcus got the news that Lisa was driving around in a brand new Lexus. In addition to the Mercedes, she'd already used his identity to buy. This was it. Marcus confronted Lisa. In fact, he freaked out on her pretty hard. That, Sianke said, sent her spiraling. We're going to get caught. He's going to turn us in.

Do you want to go back to prison? And on and on and on. And one night, she'd just come. right out and set it. We have to kill him. Lisa had a life insurance policy on Marcus for $90,000. And so they'd make out nicely if he were dead. They'd plan the murder carefully, he said. And Lisa was the one who suggested he make those threatening calls to Marcus' voicemail. Yeah, and I'm not honestly sure why they did that. Like, I'm not sure if it was to intimidate Marcus out of calling the cops, like maybe a last-ditch effort to get him to just drop the whole thing so that they didn't have to kill him

and then they just decided screw it will kill him anyway or was it an attempt at misdirecting the police or something i don't know i don't know and some of them seemed like he was trying to get the get marcus to open the box no yeah that the one on the day that he died i think where he says why don't you open up your little gift and see what i sent you like clearly he was in that last message anyway goading him to go ahead and open the box that's weird but you think you wouldn't want to leave evidence like that. It was really stupid. Again, criminal mastermind. Brilliant. So they'd both planned for Sienki to go to Jamaica and lay low for a while after Marcus was dead, and Lisa would send him half the insurance payout once the investigation was closed.

And he did go to Jamaica, but insurance companies don't tend to pay out on a policy when there's an active murder investigation. So Lisa never got her money. So Stinky ended up sort of stuck down there. That was when he put his profile up on my one and only.com and lured in Sandra Lavel. Sandra was a TV executive for the studio that made the reality show Cops, and she was rolling in money and eager to get her ego stroked by a pretty young boy toy, just Cianke's type. Sandra flew down to Jamaica from her home in L.A. She and Cianke had a romantic long weekend down there, and when it was time for her to go back to L.A., she asked him to go with her. He told her he couldn't, and he told her why. Now, you'd think this would be a deal breaker

for most ladies, wouldn't you? A bombing murder? Yeah, at the very least, I think it would give you pause. A little bit of a, at least a pink flag, right? Yeah. Well, not Sandra. She was cool with it. I'm not exactly sure why, but I'm thinking it probably had something to do with the fact that Sandy had a few skeletons in her closet. Oh, nothing big, though. It was just a trifle. Nothing too major. She'd just been embezzling money from her employers. Not a lot or anything, just a little under $1.1 million. Is that all? Come on. I know. It's so minor, really. But I guess it made her feel like she lived in a glass house and shouldn't be throwing stones at old stinky. Of course, it could have just been those chiseled abs working their magic.

again? Mm-hmm. So Sandra said, no problem. I'll help you out. And when she got back to California, she sent S Yankee a plane ticket to L.A. and told him he could lay low at her place. They had quite a cozy time until he got arrested. She even paid for his plastic surgery. Yeah, and she got busted for the embezzlement a few months after S Yankee got arrested. She was trying to lay low herself by then because, you know, she's out on bail for aiding and abetting his dumbass. And she went out and got a passport and like her old maiden name and she'd resigned from the cop show. But then after she left the show, the TV studio did an audit and they uncovered this enormous theft.

So what's interesting to me about this and the fact that she has a past is how stinky was able to figure this woman out so fast, you know, via this online communication. Like, how did he pick her from all the other profiles on that dating site? Was it just a coincidence that he managed? to reach out to like the one woman who was also a financial fraudster and, you know, wouldn't judge him and would be willing to help him? Or does game recognize game, as you so often say? Yeah, it's just such a big coincidence that I can't believe this was like a fate thing or destiny thing. I think they recognize each other these people. I don't know. I just don't know

how and it's fascinating. If you are a murderer, please reach out. No, don't. Because we will Let us know. I mean, is there like an aura? What is it? How do you recognize each other? Is it the shark eyes? You know, you know, when my dad rode his Harley, there's like a hand signal, all Harley writers give. Is it that? Okay. Or it could be some version of like the old signs that people who rode the rails would put up on fence posts. Oh, yeah, yeah. Maybe there's a system of glyphs we're unaware of. I don't know, but I'm fascinated by it. It's so interesting because this is not the first time this has happened on our show. Oh, no. Look at it. Look at the entirety of season one. Now those two people found each other. I mean, come on. It happens all the time. It's interesting.

So anyway, Cianke handed all this to the cops on a silver platter. He said he'd plead guilty as long as they took the death penalty off the table. They agreed, and his confession finally gave them enough to arrest Lisa. Prosecutors were a little nervous about Lisa's trial, though. She was still denying everything, and all they really had going for them was the word of an admitted con man. a con man who had never been involved in anything violent before, that was true, but still. Yeah, I do think that's actually really interesting that his criminal career had never involved physical violence until he met Lisa Tony. But as they usually do, the investigators kept on digging, even after they had Lisa in custody.

And by the time her trial began in February of 2003, they'd found some sweet new evidence. So, for example, Lisa's phone records matched up beautifully with her. Yankee's timeline of the case. They could put her on the phone with him while he was at the store with Jason buying those bomb parts and at her own house while he was building the bombs. And they also called Sienke's ex and partner in crime Sherry Payne, the burlesque performer who testified that Lisa was in on the thing from the very start. Now for her part, Lisa took the stand and continued to deny everything. She was a victim too. Weep, weep, weep, weep. Uh-huh. Well, on March 7th, the jury unanimously disagreed and found Lisa to her.

Tony guilty of conspiracy to commit first degree murder and sentenced her to life in prison. And she had the nerve to cry at her sentencing and talk about how she loved Marcus in front of his family. So she can blow that right at her ass. Can we just take a second and talk about how fucking stupid

it is to use a bomb to commit a murder? It guarantees that the motherfucking ATF will be all up on your ass. And they don't just close cases. No. They're not just going to let it rest because when you start bringing bombs into the mix, like they start thinking

could this be somehow related to terrorism of some kind? It's, you know, we think we start thinking about the Oklahoma City bombing and things like that. Like, you don't bring in a bomb and expect it to just go away. So, yeah, that was about the dumbest possible method that they could have chosen. You know, guaranteed to bring in the feds, guaranteed to get everybody crawling up, you know, every nook and cranny of your butt as soon as you become a suspect. So dumb. So anyway. But no,

he's a criminal mastermind, Katie. You're right. I'm sorry. He's Hannibal Lecter. I'm sorry. Ciankey. I know you're listening. Stinky.

I love calling him stinky so much. It's my favorite thing. I also kind of like to think of him as skanky. That's a good one. But stinky is better, I think. He is sneaky as well and slinky. Those are kind of, there could be compliments, though.

I know. Sneaky. He probably enjoys thinking of himself as sneaky. So anyway So bomber boy Jason Butcher pled guilty to helping Sienke build the pipe bombs and got 15 years Which is a pretty steep sentence

And good, I'm glad, you know, he needed that Sandra Lavelle Dumbass pled guilty to the aiding and abetting charge And got 33 months Now I'm not sure what she got on the embezzlement charges But I do know her lawyer Tried to argue that she'd stolen the money For Robin Hood reasons

And had donated a lot of it to charity Oh, that's fine then uh-huh well we know she was living a very lavish lifestyle herself so i'm just going to go ahead and call bullshit on that as for sherry pain she got a year of probation for getting that cash advance on the phony marcus toney credit card so stinky himself mr lalimonde was sentenced to four consecutive life sentences for conspiracy and murder plus another 30 years for the identity theft so this man is never going to see daylight again he is well and truly in prison. So I guess the culmination of the great game in Sienke's mind is folding like an accordion

the minute the cops haul your ass in for questioning and then begging them not to ask for the death penalty. Is that about the size of it? Dr. Lecter? Oh, he's such a twat. And to illustrate further what a gigantic twat he is, campers, allow me to read to you from the letter. He sent journalist Joy Bergman after she managed to catch an in-person prison interview with him. An interview he did very much against his lawyer's advice, apparently, because I'm sure he knew better than they did about everything, because, you know, mastermind. And the reason he was so desperate to have this in-person interview

is because she had repeatedly refused to send him a picture of herself, and apparently he was just so curious to see what she looked like. So this, y'all is Sienke, trying to be smooth and work his alleged magic on the reporter who was doing a story on him at the time, okay? Y'all ready? Ahem. Your eyes are amazing.

They seem to tell a deeper story than even your body wishes to hold. I am as passionate in my work as I am with women. Okay, what work are you talking about your sad little con games? Because I'm pretty sure those don't count, Yankee. I study them probably more so than I do anything else. Everything from the way she walks, speaks, breathes, laughs, dresses, the way she combs her hair, to the look in her eyes when she's in ecstasy. Mm-mm.

Sorry. No, no, thank you. Oh, dry heat, dry heat. And when she says she loves me, women are like blood and wine to me. Huh? Okay. Those are just two really different things. I am a gentleman when it is necessary.

I am the bad boy when it is necessary. I am the friend, the mother, the father, the brother, and the sister. Okay, what is his obsession with name and everybody in a family? I don't know. Because he said that about GoMillion, too, that he said. He was my mother, father, sister, brother. Pick one, you freaking weirdo. He's just trying to hedge his bets because he's such a flipping psychopath.

He doesn't... Like, I'm not sure what any of these relationships is supposed to... I'm just all of them. Just whatever you need me to be. I treat all of them as if I love them. And in some instances, I truly do. Okay. So let's take a breather for a second.

Breathe through your nose. We're going to get through this. Lord, have mercy. It's knee deep in here already. and we're not even halfway through this thing. So, Katie, why do you think he said in some instances he truly does love the women? Do you think it's to, like, backpedal on all that, oh, I just use women stuff that he had told her before so that, like, maybe he could convince her that she had a shot with him, even though he's sitting there in prison with, like, consecutive life sentences.

I don't know why she'd want a shot with him, but... Just a case. You know, I don't believe for a second that someone like Sianke-Lalaman is capable of love. loving anyone but himself. Oh, hell no. He's a total vampire. He takes and takes and takes and takes from these women until they're just husks.

Yeah. I think what he was trying to do here was that push-pull thing he did with joy in the first letters. Oh, I don't usually love women. But if you earn it, I can occasionally muster up some genuine feelings. Oh, God. It was total pick-me bait with the subtlety of a fucking chainsaw. Yeah, that's exactly right.

And that is the most fucking infuriating thing about Sanky and Lisa, right? He wasn't even good at what he did. I know. He got by on the hopes that his victims would be too humiliated to go to the cops, that his abundance of identities would protect him. Lisa had the smallest morsel of the other side, and she jumped to murder so quickly for this dude. Yep.

Who, who says shit, like women are like, Blood and wine to me. The vampire list dot. Yeah. And it was, this guy was the one that she committed murder for. I know. It's pathetic. And she let this, you know, high life turn into something dark and hungry inside her.

Marcus Tony didn't have to fucking die. His family shouldn't have to mourn their brother, their son, their father. Absolutely not. Yeah, I'm really, really mad at Lisa. This was the whole thing was just pathetic. Yeah. Okay. Good answer, damn.

Okay, so just a little more to go. Campers, you're doing great. I'm proud of you. We can get through this together, okay? All right. So about reporter Joy Bergman herself, after meeting her in person, Stinky wrote, I see in you a power to be so much better than you even know. I see it.

More importantly, I feel it. You have a very good heart. And, of course, those eyes wicked. I do know your soul, joy And I would truly like to help you get where you are trying to go In time, you will find your salvation in mine I do not know if I told you But my name means the one who knows all caps

Okay, sit with it Just let it recede like the ocean Awful thing is gone now We got through it just go to your happy place I would truly like to help you get where you are trying to go dude you're in prison for the rest of your life

he reminds me so much of Dyson Koff he really is almost as absurd a human being yeah like just add in the aliens and conspiracy theories and we would have stinky he's almost as ridiculous as Hosenkoff sitting there in his prison jumpsuit acting like he's pulled off the perfect crime. And he was talking to her. He's like, 95% of my crimes have gone undetected. Yeah, I'm sure you've jaywalked and not gotten caught many times, you jackass. And by the way, most financial crimes are like that because people, just like you said, are humiliated. And after this came out, like dozens and dozens of women went to the police with their own little sienky stories

about how they got taken advantage of and used and leh. He is the worst. And, you know, I love like he thinks of himself as this puppet master when really all you're doing dude is petty crimes that you have to use women who have the hots for you to commit. Right. Like, that's not a skill, man. That's just you being kind of pretty. Right. And that's got an expiration date. So get over yourself, you fucking hack. Anyway, sorry. We want to say something to Joy Bergman, this reporter whose article was one of our main sources for this episode. We're taking our hats off to you because in our eyes, you're just a damn queen for putting up with this man-child bag of wind

and getting this truly banana pants story out of him so easily. And we'd love to have a beer with you sometime and make fun of him some more. That would be fun. So hit us up on Twitter, girl. Guess please. Good job, Joy. And I love how she made a point in her article of saying that she couldn't detect any magnetism in his eyes.

and she called his body strong but ordinary Ha ha ha ha Yes you absolute goddess Roast him girl I love that so much I just cackled out loud when I read that part She wanted him to be sure she was unimpressed We too Stinky are

Unimpressed So unimpressed Yeah So this case is absurd And a total tragedy for Marcus's family Partly because it's so absurd And he's so absurd And just like we said about Gurley Chu Hasenkoff, it's just such a supreme injustice that this nice person had to be taken out of this world so violently and horribly and harassed beforehand because of this ridiculous, ridiculous little man.

And I know he's six, too, but he's little on the inside. He's like the reverse of the TARDIS. He's smaller on the inside. Yes, the exact reverse of the TARDIS. And it's a total tragedy for his family, especially his daughter, who was nine. at the time of his death. And, you know, what she had to go through, especially once she realized that her stepmother

was the one responsible for her dad's murder, I can only imagine. And by the way, Lisa had been coming around. This is after she and Sienke had already started planning the murder. She was, you know, talking about reconciliation, and she was going over to Marcus's new place and doing his laundry and having sex with him

and sweet talking him. Just manipulative bullshit. And it just makes me furious to think about that because he was getting his hopes up. Yeah. Oh, she's going to come back to me. It was just a little breakup. We just needed time apart.

And she was intentionally stoking those hopes, knowing full well what they were planning to do to him. For just a little bit of money. It's disgusting. Because she didn't want him to take her off his insurance. That's why. Yeah. Well, and I'm sure she also wanted to make sure he didn't go to the cops before they could kill him. So he did not deserve any of this.

Neither did his family. And neither did his friend, by the way. The one who just happened to be there on the day that he decided to open the package. and ended up getting blown out the front door himself and fortunately the friend did recover but of course he suffered from survivors guilt for years afterward and god knows what other lingering effects and just bless his heart so we hope he's healing and that the family is healing and that they've taken some kind of comfort from the fact that these people are never going to see daylight again you know so that was a wild one right campers you know we'll have another one for you next week but for now

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