True Crime Campfire - Lust, Lies & Audiotape: Two Failed Murders for Hire

Episode Date: January 10, 2025

Most people love getting a peek behind a fellow human’s carefully managed facade. We’re delighted when we see the local magistrate gettin’ wrecked at a dive bar two towns over. We catch a glimpse of our married coworker making out with a guy who’s not her husband behind the building, and we can’t wait to tell somebody. We love a hot mic moment, when a news anchor or politician drops the mask for a second and acts like the flawed human they are. I think that’s one of the reasons we love hit-man stings on this show. A recording of somebody offering money in exchange for murder—it's the most authentic peek behind the curtain you could possibly get. A person making an inexplicable, evil choice, dropping the face they normally show to the world to show the darkness underneath. This week we have two cases for you: One where a career fraudster and general snake in human form stays exactly true to his character, and one where a respected member of the community does something light-years out of hers.Sources:Oxygen's "Murder For Hire," episodes "Revenge! Revenge!" and "Wrong Side of the Law"CNBC's "American Greed," episode "A Con Man's Deadly Revenge"https://www.oxygen.com/murder-for-hire/crime-time/long-island-inmate-joseph-romano-plot-murder-judge-prosecutor-bianco-gatzhttps://www.cnbc.com/2014/02/27/how-joseph-romano-went-from-million-dollar-coin-fraudster-to-hiring-a-hit-man.htmlCourt papers: https://law.justia.com/cases/colorado/supreme-court/1987/86sc254-0.htmlNew York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/nyregion/inmate-gets-life-in-prison-for-plotting-to-behead-a-judge-and-a-prosecutor.htmlFollow us, campers!Patreon (join to get all episodes ad-free, at least a day early, an extra episode a month, and a free sticker!): https://patreon.com/TrueCrimeCampfirehttps://www.truecrimecampfirepod.com/Facebook: True Crime CampfireInstagram: https://gramha.net/profile/truecrimecampfire/19093397079Twitter: @TCCampfire https://twitter.com/TCCampfireEmail: [e-mail]! https://true-crime-campfire.myspreadshop.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-campfire--4251960/support.

Hello, campers. Grab your marshmallows and gather around the true crime campfire. We're your camp counselors. I'm Katie. And I'm Whitney. And we're here to tell you a true story that is way stranger than fiction. We're roasting murderers and marshmallows around the true crime campfire. Most people love to get a peek behind a fellow humans carefully managed facade. We're delighted when we see the local magistrate getting wrecked at a dive bar two-town over. We catch a glimpse of our married coworker making out with a guy who's not her husband behind the building and we can't wait to tell somebody. We love a hot mic moment when a news anchor or

politician drops the mask for a second and acts like the flawed human they are. I think that's one of the reasons we love hitman stings on this show, a recording of somebody offering money in exchange for murder. It's the most authentic peak behind the curtain you could possibly get. A person making an inexplicable, evil choice, dropping the face they normally show to the world to show the darkness underneath. This week, we have two cases for you. One, where a career fraudster and general snake in human form, stays exactly true to his character, and one where a respected member of the community does something light years out of hers. This is lust, lies, and audio tape. Two failed murders for hire.

Case 1. Vengeance is Mine, the Crimes of Joe Romano. So, campers, for this one, were on Long Island, New York, spring 2012. Waste of carbon, Joe Romano, was, let's say, a bit miffed about the 15-year sentence he'd just been handed for mail and wire fraud. I mean, he hadn't killed anybody. All he did was rob a bunch of old guys of their life-saving. Who cares? He stole a lousy four mill. Come on. That was pretty much his feeling about the whole thing. And in the holding area at the jail, in between recesses during his trial, he'd been venting about it to a fellow inmate. This has always worked out great for our subjects in the past, hasn't it? Your prison buddy, remember, is the best buddy you'll ever have. You can trust him implicitly. It's like camp. Camp friends are forever friends. I never went to camp, but I always kind of assumed it was a lot like Lord of the Flies. No. Anyway, it became immediately clear to the other inmate.

We'll call him jail buddy, that this Joe Romano dude had zero chill. This day, the day of sentencing, Romano came back to the holding cell in a rage. You look red again, said jail, buddy. What happened? Just me fighting with the judge, Romano said. You should have seen me going off in there. He paced back and forth across. the cell. These motherfuckers, man, destroyed my life, because it couldn't be anything you did,

right? It's all on them. He dropped his voice to a whisper and leaned in toward jail buddy. They deserve to die, he said. They deserve to die. The motherfuckers in question were assistant U.S. prosecutor Lara Gatz and Judge Joseph Bianco. This judge is the worst fucking judge, Romano ranted. I'd like to torture him. I'm not even kidding you. I'm going to fucking cut him to pieces. Fucking A, said jail buddy. He was doing a great job being Joe Romano's listening ear, both with his actual ears and with the wire he was wearing. See, this wasn't the first time Romano had come back from a hearing talking about wanting the prosecutor and judge dead. And like so many jail buddies before him, as soon as Romano started asking him about finding a hitman,

his fellow inmate had gone straight to the authorities. Now he was all wired up and investigators were getting an earful. Revenge! Revenge! Revenge! He hissed it like a villain in a shitty action movie. I think it's the first time in my life I've ever heard an actual human being say, revenge, revenge, like, unironically. It's just wild stuff. And he wanted to make sure his victim suffered. Judge Bianco was a deacon at his local church. Go there, Romano said to jail, buddy. Tell him, peace be with you. Boom. And he had even worse in mind for Lara Gats. I want to cut her tits off, Romano said, chuckling at the thought. Make him into a gunny sack.

Charming. But it really shouldn't surprise anybody that Joe Romano would try and plot something like this. He's a special kind of shit heel. Before they all ended up in prison, coin fraud was the family business for the Romano fam, brothers Michael and Joe, and to a lesser extent, Salvatore and Vincent, too. The brothers knew basically nothing about coins and didn't give two shits about collecting coins, but that didn't stop them. They figured selling rare coins, actually not at all rare coins they bought from local wholesalers, would be a good way to part people from their money. They'd just buy as

many as they could find on the cheap, then randomly assign ratings and values to them. Any actual coin collector who happened upon their catalog would have known immediately that there was fraud going on. But Michael and Joe Romano weren't aiming at real collectors. And by the way, coin experts are called numismatists. I learned that from American greed. Thanks guys. I love a new word. Numismatists. They were aiming at newbies who didn't know what they were doing. People who would be easy to con into parting with their hard-earned money with the promise of big returns. In short, they were targeting old retired people, cold calling them and laying the sales pitch on thick. Joe Romano's sales weasels worked hard to cozy up to their elderly victims

to pretend to care about them so they'd be more likely to fork over their savings. They'd ask about their victims' kids and grandkids, patiently listen to their stories. For a lot of these folks retired and living alone, this was a powerful draw. They came to think of these coin sales guys as actual friends, and on top of this sort of decaf love bombing, the sales bricks used, used high pressure sales tactics, created a false sense of urgency. We have this once-in-a-lifetime deal for you, but you have to act right now. Joe and his brother put that same sense of urgency on the sales guys, deliver or else. It was a boiler room, basically. One that Joe Romano

surveilled at all times from almost a dozen strategically placed security cameras all around the office. Big Brother was watching, and the sales staff knew it. Their mission was to bleed these people dry and never give up. If their mark said they were running out of money, the sales guys were instructed to coax them into taking out second mortgages, selling off property, taking out high interest loans, whatever it took. It would all pay off, they promised. They knew it was bullshit. Some of the investments they sold these people on didn't even exist. Yeah, they made up a whole guy at one point, like one of the top sales guys, he made up this whole fake, like, Japanese investor who was going to back this purchase of these rare coins. Dude didn't even exist. The coins didn't even

exist. I mean, it was just outright fraud. One guy in his 80s lost the $100,000 he'd painstakingly saved over decades for his grandchildren's college. Others lost even more. Ended up completely broke after a lifetime of hard work. One elderly guy, a man who had lived through the Great Depression and fought in World War II, lost his life savings and became obsessed with getting justice. When dementia wiped his memory of the coin fraud, his family was actually relieved. Just, yeah, just digest how awful that is for a second, that dementia would be better than the devastation these people had caused. Oh, Lord.

And, you know, I've had relatives with dementia. that's a, that's a, that's a sickening thought that that would be a relief. Yeah. Is, I can't even imagine that that would be a relief for anyone. And that, that's how awful this was. Yeah. Meanwhile, the sales guys were making six figures defrauding old people and the Romano brothers were cleaning up.

It was all very wolf of Wall Street. The Romanoes weren't the kind of bosses who were content to just send you home at the end of the nine to five workday and leave you alone. Michael created an office. culture where everybody felt pressure to go out club hopping after work. They do coke together, get drunk, go to strip clubs. And despite looking like Timu, Joey Buttafuoco, and his Smarmy Game Show host cousin, the Romano brothers thought they were hot shit.

They were always trying to outdo each other in the ridiculously expensive house-slash-car department. Who can buy the most ostentatious Fugly McMansion this year? What antique car can I buy this week? How many chicks can I impress at the bar by throwing other people's money around? This was what got their motors running. And their sales snakes were making bank too. One said on the show American Greed that once you start taking home six figures, your conscience stops bothering you so much.

And like, okay, speak for yourself, asshole. I know, right? No, it would not and shut up. I can't, like, I don't know. I think once somebody starts, talking about how they're running out of money. I mean, that wouldn't be the thing that stopped me. I wouldn't be doing it in the first place. But like, if everything else hadn't stopped me, the minute somebody was like, oh, I've drained my grandchildren's college fund.

Yeah. Are you fucking kidding me? I know. And they, the salespeople, it's really funny. Some of them appeared like, you know, in silhouette with their voices altered on this show. And they really seem to think that in. in many ways they were the real victims here because the romano's didn't tell us what this was when they hired us well you knew what it was eventually and you knew you were making you know

250k a year and you kept doing it so shut the hell up yeah well it's it's always and that's the thing though is like you have to as a salesperson you have to know your product right so you would have to do some kind of research so they knew there's no way they didn't know of Of course they knew. They absolutely knew. They knew. But yeah, there's their, you know, they're, they're basically finance bros. They're too finance bros. They're finance bros that couldn't make it. Like you said, it's very, it's very wolf of Wall Street. That's, that was the vibe. But it's so, it's so, like, janky where it's like, when you, like, look at what it really is, it's like, this is kind of sad. They're like a, oh, yeah. But anyway, I want to make it clear that they weren't going. going after wealthy people. Their victims were people on fixed incomes. One guy said he'd never made more than 15 grand a year in his whole working life, but he'd saved painstakingly, so he'd have something to leave his grandkids.

They wiped people out and didn't think twice about it. Eventually, the victims always came to realize they'd been played. The coins they'd bought were little more than worthless, and complaints started piling up against the Romano's. And finally, one old guy had the presence of mind to start recording his phone conversations with Joe Romano's top sales viper. And that was enough evidence to file fraud charges. Good job. Now, finally, the Romano brothers were being held accountable.

And as we saw earlier, Joe was really put out about it. My father was in the courtroom. Romano told jail buddy one day between hearings. I told my father, you're 80 years old. Your life is over. Why don't you kill them? I said, I would do that for my kids. Yeah, right, you piece of shit.

You'd push your whole family in front of a train if it'd save your own ass and you know it. So his dad says, are you fucking crazy? Which is the correct response. Cho said, if that's crazy, then yeah. Wow, man. Wowie. Really going for a son of the year there.

And I have to stop for a second to just marvel at the bumbling logic here. I mean, I know he wanted revenge. He made that part very clear, but based on his conversations with jail buddy, it seems clear that he also wanted a lighter sentence and somehow thought that killing both the prosecutor and the judge in his case would make that happen. Because, you know, reasons? It's just such brain-dead thinking, but Romano was delighted to hear that jail buddy had a guy

on the outside who could carry out the hits for him. Kill both of them, motherfuckers. Romano hissed. I'll fucking help you out, said jail buddy. I'm going to reach out to my guy and see what's going on. Romano was all in. Jail Buddy's guy, of course, was an undercover detective named Strecker. He developed a hitman character over the years, Bobby Rousseau. It's a perfect name, isn't it? It sounds like a soprano's character.

Strecker had an established track record with this kind of delicate undercover work, so he was the perfect choice. So after they filled in prosecutor Gats and Judge Bianco and assigned some federal marshals to protect them during the sting officer, Detective Strecker set up a meeting with Joe Romano at the jail. They set it up just like a normal visitation. As Bobby Russo, Strecker sat down across from Romano and bantered about how they looked like they could be brothers. And then they got down to business. But to Strecker's surprise, Romano didn't want to talk about murder. He wanted a guy beat up, he said. Dude stole two cars from me, Romano said.

He's a real piece of shit. Romano took his classic cars seriously and you can tell he'd been stewing about this for months. The guy's name was Petus, Romano said. He owned an auto mechanic business, and what actually happened was, of course, that Romano didn't pay for like 80 grand worth of work, so the guy didn't give him his car back until he paid his

damn bill, which is completely reasonable. I want to beat, Romano said. Now, Strecker was disappointed that Romano wasn't talking about the murders for hire yet, but he did say he had a couple bigger jobs in mind after the Petus thing, and Strecker figured this was Romano, his way of feeling his potential hitman out, testing him a little to see if he was the real deal.

At this point, Detective Strecker, aka Bobby Rousseau, was all in. So he went to Mr. Pettus and filled him in on what was afoot. Would Petus be willing to help out? I can only imagine what this poor dude went through that day. Like finding out that this sleaze bucket who'd stiffed him on an $80,000 bill was now trying to hire somebody to beat the shit out of him. That's not a fun day. So he told the detective he'd do whatever they needed him to.

So they staged a photo out behind Petus's business. He sprawled out on the pavement like a guy who just had the finger-licking fuck kicked out of him. Now, by this time, Romano had hooked Detective Strecker up with a friend of his on the outside, his business partner, David Murkovic. Merkevick apparently had no qualms whatsoever about helping his buddy murder and maim, and he agreed to meet with Bobby Russo to hand over money and whatnot. At their first meeting, Detective Strecker was a little nervous that Murkovic wouldn't buy the picture of Petus, supposedly all beaten up on the pavement. But of course he did.

I could have told him, you know, of course he was going to fall for it, honey. He's an idiot. These are all idiots. Yeah, he bought it immediately, which is funny because they didn't even do any fake blood or anything. I've seen some of these fake pictures where they really go full Hollywood. This one, they basically just had the guy lay down. They took a picture of him. it was enough. It was enough for Merkovic. Bless his heart. So Murkovic was all excited, and he said,

in fact, he had another guy he wanted beaten up. Detective Strecker must have wanted to roll his eyes so bad. This was not why they were doing this, damn it. So as Bobby Russo, he laid his cards on the table for Merkavik, basically said, look, man, I ain't no 10-penny thug here. I'm looking to make some real money. I thought your boy Romano wanted a big job done, murder for hire. Merkovic seemed kind of disappointed. He was having a lot of fun playing Don Corleone, but he agreed, yeah, yeah, he does. He does, too. In fact, I'll tell him you did the Pitas thing, and we'll get back to you.

Romano was thrilled. Said he did a happy little dance at his cell, but he heard how they laid Pitas out. I laughed my balls off, he told Murkovic in a recorded call. Bitch, what balls are you talking about? And before long, Murkovic met up with Bobby Rousseau again and handed over a down payment of $20,000 in the names of Romano's intended victims. It was so funny, too. When he said Judge Bianco is a federal judge, Detective Stracker went, oh! Like, it was so, like, perfectly made man like sopranos.

Oh, my God. If this guy ever wants to retire from undercover work, he should really think about acting because he played this character perfectly. Murkovic also had some very specific instructions about how Romano wanted the two murders carried out. He seemed to have a special hatred for prosecutor Lara Gatz. He wants her in a 35-gallon drum, Merckovic said. Not a 50, but a 35-gallon drum. He says he thinks she'll fit. Yeah, his special hatred, I have some theories.

Probably one, because she's like, you know, the one laying out all the evidence and going after him too. I think it's because she's a woman. Because she's a woman. Oh, I absolutely agree. And he had a couple other special requests. He wanted Russo to cut off both their heads, Gatz and Judge Bianco, and preserve them in formaldehyde so he could keep them as a souvenir once he got out of prison. And he wanted Lara Gatz's breasts. Oh, my God. Gross.

Which, I don't know. what he thinks is going to happen when he gets out of prison? Do you think he's just going to keep him on his mantle? Like what, like the heads? I know, it's so weird. Like, where are you going to keep heads? And everyone is going to be like, oh,

not suspicious at all that both people involved in his case are dead. He's going to keep him under his bed. Oh, my God, almighty. Even for an experienced undercover, like Detective Strecker, this was super creepy. It was bizarre, he later told CNBC, but he had to keep his Bobby Russo poker face intact.

That's pretty freaky, he said, pretending to laugh. He's a sick fuck. Detective Strecker knew Lara Gatz. They'd worked cases together before, and they'd went to college together. He knew she was a tenacious prosecutor, that she'd work herself half to death to get justice for the victims in her cases,

that she was a loving mom of two young kids. and made the whole scene more surreal. We need to get this done fast, like in the next two weeks, Murcovic said. The investigators already had a wealth of audio recordings between Joe Romano and jail buddy, Joe Romano and Murcovic, Mercovic and Bobby Russo, and Romano and Russo. Now that the down payment had changed hands, it was time to put the habeas gravis on David Murkovic, and to inform Joe Romano back at the jail, that he was in a whole new world of trouble. Conspiracy to

commit first-degree murder kind of trouble. Even worse because the two intended victims were federal employees. Romano didn't put up a fight. As soon as the FBI knocked on his cell door and filled him in on the sting, he confessed.

Of course, when it actually went to court five months later, he was singing a slightly different song. Oh, it was a joke. The whole hitman thing got blown way out of proportion. I was entrapped. The government had it out for him, Romana whined.

I was like their Moby Dick, he said. He really set himself up for this one. I mean, yeah, you are a dick. A huge dick. I'll agree with that. I wouldn't mind seeing you harpooned, but... Yeah, dude, you were so important to them. A basic-ass scammer. Wasn't until you started your weird, misogynistic-flavored vendetta

against the prosecutor and also the judge that they turned it into overdrive. You forced their hand, you fucking loser. Yeah. So now, instead of doing the 15 years, he was originally sentenced to our boy Joe Romano, the big stinky cheese he is, is serving two live terms. Bye-bye. As for his buddy, Murkovic, he took a plea deal and got 24 years. Womp

Now, by far my favorite thing about this case is that this unteachable turnip tried to do it again after he got caught. Yeah, this time he tried to hire somebody to kill Detective Strecker.

Dude, buddy, really? I just cannot believe it. So in response, the government decided to tuck this shit for brains far, far away, from Gen Pop where he can't do any more damage. He's in a supermax facility, and his communications are monitored like Hannibal Lecters. They basically got him locked up in the dungeon like

frickin' Magneto, and he absolutely brought it on himself. His brothers ended up in prison, too, by the way, for the coin fraud. I think Michael got 20 years, and the other two got like 10. Of course, their victims are still out millions of dollars. I hope it can at least do their hearts some good to know that these guys are rotting in prison where they damn well belong. Fucking idiots. We move on to another case that centers around a prison, this time in a slightly different way. We're calling this one between the bars. Have you ever seen somebody and just knew they were the one?

You lock eyes and your stomach falls out of your ass and your heart starts racing, and your palms start sweating, and you know you've found the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. Well, that's what happened when Pamela Dickens met Rick Hampton. She wanted to be with Rick, but there were two tainty little problems with that. The first was that she was married. The second, slightly bigger problem, was that she was a correctional officer, and Rick Hampton was an inmate, doing 30 years for sexual assault. So how the hell did we get here? For this one, it's 2003 in Canyon City, Colorado, home to the Colorado State Penitentiary.

Linda Mayfield, the custody and control manager at the prison, was starting to get some weird reports about an inmate and one of her guards. several guards reported that Pamela Dickens had been compromised by Rick Hampton. Any kind of relationship between a guard and an inmate is caused for concern on a couple of levels. First, it's considered an abuse of power because of the imbalance between guard and inmate, and we've seen several guards, rightfully so, get arrested and charged with sexual assault over stuff like this. It happened in the Susan Smith case, as a matter fact. Second, it can be a way for an inmate to manipulate somebody to get what they want, whether it's contraband smuggled in or help with an escape. Nothing good can come of this kind of

relationship. Pamela's family described her as a tomboy with a bit of a rebellious streak. She did tend to crave male attention and had a little bit of low self-esteem, which is how she fell for Rick's shenanigans in the first place. Pamela met her future actual husband, Timothy Dickens, right out of high school and they got married pretty fast. They had two daughters and Pamela stayed home to raise them. Everyone in Pamela's family adored Tim and they thought he was like humble and kind and like the son shown out of his ass. Like they thought he was the tops. He sounds like a good. Yeah. And he treated his nephews as sons. His nephews like loved going fishing with him. Timothy joined the military and after he got out he began work as a correctional officer. And like that's not surprising.

Pretty much everyone in Canyon City works for a prison. There are currently 11 in Canyon City, seven state facilities and four federal. Yeah, it's a... That is bananas in one town. Yeah. If you drive through Canyon City, it's like on every corner there's a sign of like, do not pick up, pick up hitchhikers. Do not pick up...

Seriously right. Do not pick up hitchhikers. Do not do it. Yeah, you ain't got a prayer if you're a hitchhiker in that town. Once their daughters were out of the house, Pamela needed work. work. So she got a job at the same prison, doing the same job as Tim, which kind of took everyone by surprise. Like, she didn't really have the prison guard personality. You got to be kind of mentally tough to see people incarcerated all day. And then there's dealing with

inmates. Like, Tim's nephew said it was even hard on him who was like military trained, like seeing people locked up all day. Like, it's hard, it's a hard type of work. And Pam's not that kind of person, basically. Then there is a certain type of inmate that enjoys compromising guards. They turn it into a game. They study the staff like a lion might study a herd of antelope to pick out the weakest one, or at least the one they think they can manipulate to get what they want. These are probably the kinds of people that would be doing this same type of thing outside

of prison too, but their pool of potential targets is just a lot smaller and should, one would hope be a lot savvier. Yeah, you're around these people all the time. Like, you've got to stay frosty. And it's a lot like the frog in the slow boiling pot, right? This guy isn't going to go right up to a guard and be like, yo, want to sneak some drugs in for me? He's probably going to start by buttering up, maybe giving her a gift, giving her some compliments, asking her to do something small and low stakes, like taking a letter out for him. And then slowly, but surely, she's too committed.

to question him on it or say no. Yes, and also she's going to get in trouble. And at some point, it can kind of shift over into extortion where, like, well, you'd get in trouble too if anybody found out about this, which is true. They'd lose their job. I saw a video the other day about this. The girl said he acted like an injured puppy all the time, and it turned out he had a gambling problem and owed a bunch of money to pretty much every other inmate in his pod

and needed protection. But by the time she realized that, she'd committed several felonies. Girl, stand up. I know, right. In reports to Linda Mayfield, who's like Pamela's boss, Pamela's co-workers called what was going on between Rick and her horseplay and friendly conversation. Horseplay. It sounds so innocent. I can just hear the giggles bouncing off the prison walls now.

Linda's concerns were exacerbated by the, the fact that our boy Rick had a reputation for compromising female guards, which I do not understand. We don't look shame on this podcast. Okay? But Timothy Chalemay himself couldn't get me to jeopardize my job, let alone Timothy Chalemay serving three decades for first-degree sexual assault. Linda opened up a formal investigation on Pamela. One of Pamela's cousins, Chris, also worked for the prison system as an intel officer, meaning that he he was responsible for keeping an eye on prisoners and making sure they kept their noses clean and that the officers stayed on the straight and arrow as well. Pamela called him and asked him

what he thought of Rick Hampton. He told her immediately to stay away from him. He said, if you're involved with him, you need to get away from him right now. Her response? Well, I don't think he's as bad as everyone says he is. Oh, Pamela, you silly, silly biscuit. So let's just take a look at how bad Rick Hampton is. Heads up for some talk about sexual assault and stalking. Rick Hampton asked a woman who worked at a teller at his bank on a date. When she refused to sleep with him, he beat her and assaulted her. The wounds were so bad she lied and told people she'd been in a car accident.

For months, he showed up at her work to intimidate her while she was too scared to report him. Finally, with some encouragement from a police officer who was working as a security, guard that noticed a change in her personality, she reported him and testified against him. So, yeah, Pamela, I do think he's as bad as everyone says he is, you dipshit, shut the hell up. The fact that she told her cousin this while knowing that he worked as an intelligence officer is nuts so bananas. It is, and I think she was just in really deep by then, maybe even trying to get info for Rick on what they had on him. Around this time, husband Timothy had confided in one of his nephews about some potential issues at home. It's kind of a chicken or egg type situation. Was it

on the rocks because of her affair, or was she having the affair because it was on the rocks? Based on my expert opinion on scumbags and bearing in mind that I do not know these people, I'm guessing it's probably the first option. People that start affairs don't tend to have affairs because of something their partner is doing. Their partner is just the convenient scapegoat for all their problems. A few months into the investigation, another report came to Linda about an incident between Pamela and Rick in which the two were alone in a locked stairwell that was accessible only by key. One of the officers walked in on them and while they were still clothed, they were breathing really heavy and according to the report, quote, it appeared that

inmate Hampton had an erect penis. I could have gone my whole life without that little nugget of info, couldn't you? Ew. Linda was aware that between Rick's reputable, for compromising guards and Pamela's self-esteem issues that he was the one that probably initiated the contact, but in the eyes of the law, it doesn't really matter. She made the choice to cross that boundary, and she'd have to face the consequences. So Linda made a report to the chief criminal investigator for the Department of Corrections, Alex Wold. Based on the info Linda sent to him, he was convinced that there was more than enough to launch a criminal investigation. And in addition to a formal investigation, they moved Rick Hampton to a maximum secure

federal penitentiary. This would make it almost impossible for them to communicate. Emphasis on almost. As anybody who's ever been in a forbidden relationship will tell you love finds a way. And so does dumb, dumb lust. So Rick went from having a decent amount of free time at his facility to being in a cell for 23 hours a day only let out for a shower recreation as well as being around some bad mamma jamas. This was unacceptable to him. So he reached out to the Department of Corrections Intel Supervisor Dan Foster. He called the manager. Okay. He basically caroned himself in prison, okay? And said he wanted to talk to him and Alex Wold and that it was important. When they sat

down, he immediately caught to the affair and one other thing. He and Pamela were planning to hire someone to kill Timothy Dickens. Now, to this point, the DOC thought they had a sexual assault case at the very most.

But murder? Seriously? And by one of their own officers against one of their officers? Oof. That's pretty bad. Yeah, that ain't going to look good. Now, Alex and Dan took this confession with a big old grain assault. They thought he was lying.

Rick's a natural-born manipulator, and he'd say just about anything to get out of club fed. Because on top of his reputation for seducing guards, he'd also gotten a reputation for tattling on fellow inmates in exchange for rewards. What a peach this guy is, right? He... I hate this guy. He's the worst.

He's just... He's a Karen. He's a rapist. He's... Tattletale. Yeah. It's just the worst. Ugh. He never did anything unless he was getting something in return.

In this case, he wanted to go back to his cushy, regular, dangular security prison. This thing with Pam was fun. And when he thought he was getting something out of it, he was happy to go along with her plan. But 23 hours a day in a cell fucking sucks. So under the bus, Pam had to go. Rick handed him. over some letters that Pam wrote him as evidence as well as information he had about Tim Dickens. Pam had brought in photos of Tim's car, their house, and photos of Tim to show Rick.

Rick also told them that Tim had a $250,000 life insurance policy that Pam had taken out on him. This was all pretty convincing. Who else would give Rick this information and for what, for why? Yeah. Pam wanted to be with Rick, who would be eligible for parole in a couple of years, and Tim was in the way. Also, with that money from the life insurance policy, Rick and Pam could start a roofing business after Rick got out. So, where does this leave the investigators? They had to cooperate a little with Rick in order to get information out of Pam, so they asked Rick how he was communicating with Pam while he was in the high security facility. So when you're in prison, your calls with your lawyer can't be monitored because of attorney-client

privilege, so Rick and Pam would just set up a three-way call with Rick's lawyer so they could talk while Rick's lawyer left the room. The investigators got permission from Rick's attorney to record the call so they could get Pam on record agreeing to the murder for hire plan. And the call is one of those calls that you feel a little gross for overhearing. It's very shmoopy. Oh, I feel so much better now that I hear your voice and gross stuff like that. When Rick asks if Pam still wants to, you know, to do what they talked about, Pam just goes, mm-hmm. Rick is definitely the one driving the conversation. He says, I don't give a fuck about the dude.

I don't even know him, but for $250,000, why not? To which Pam responds, mm-hmm, I just want to be with you. Yeah. Very romantic, Pam, but as far as incriminating goes, that's not very convincing. In fact, it kind of looks like Rick might be the one driving the bus, but she's certainly involved. The investigation would have to continue. They didn't tell Tim Dickens about the plot because they were afraid he'd just confront his wife.

I can't imagine not knowing that your spouse was plotting your death and sleeping next to you all the same. It just makes me sick to think about it. The investigators gave Rick some guidelines for the calls that followed the first. Don't lead her there. Don't push her. Let her lead the conversation. In these calls, it's really clear how Rick got her here in the first place. At one point, he said, I think it's a good idea. It's one of your only good ideas. She responded, oh, really? And he said, look how much trouble you got me in. Flirty, flirty. Then Rick asks her if she put all of the bills in Tim's name yet so that when he dies, they won't have to worry about him. Oh, and also, can she make sure he has a

truck? Like a little honey-do list for when he gets out. Yeah, a pre-murder honey-do. This is such a sick little detail. But, like, when he asks for the truck, Pam tells him she's planning on giving Rick Tim's truck I don't know why but that really icks me out. It really bothers me like you can't give a man your dead husband's truck

that goes against every code there is I think it's awful. I know a man in his truck like that's a sacred one you can't do that it's clear that Pam put Rick on a pedestal and look it's easy to be a perfect partner when you're sitting behind bars 24-7

you can't disappoint anybody because you're not doing anything. You can't forget to load the dishwasher, you can't do that really annoying thing where you leave your dirty socks on the couch at the end of the night. You can just dedicate yourself to fulfilling someone's fantasy,

and that's what Pam wanted. Not a living, breathing partner. She wanted the fantasy. I think for a lot of people that get involved with inmates, that's the appeal. It's like collecting Pokemon cards. You know where they are

when you're not looking at them. Then, during one of the calls, Pam said something that, took me off the maybe she's being manipulated fence. Rick is just yapping away and he goes, oh, you know, it'd be crazy if the insurance was a little higher, but that would be crazy. And before he even finishes the sentence, without any inflection at all, Pam goes, it's already done. Without any prompting, she took out an additional million dollar life insurance policy on Tim. Rick, who typically sounds in control in all of the conversations, sounds genuinely shocked.

If not pleased, add this revelation. Yeah, let's not pretend he's not just tickled pink at this woman ruining her entire life to be with him. This is really a story about two people who deserve each other. A love story for the ages. Mm-hmm. I'll also say that Murder for Hire, the show we use as a primary source, really did her dirty. Like, every time it talked about her low self-esteem, it would switch to a photo of her, and then they would talk about how hot Rick is, which I thought was unnecessary and also, like,

not really true. Like, Rick's fine. Like, Rick's just like a dude. It's fine. So, like, he doesn't, he's not that hot. Like, she looks exactly like a tomboy correctional officer who wanted to hire someone to kill her husband. It's not like she's Igor or something and he's Adonis. No, God, no.

The next step in the process is for Pam to meet with a fake hitman to give her one last chance to back out. If she's serious and gives the hitman money, they can arrest her for her part in this plot and the love of her life can live out the rest of his sentence back at his lower security facility. They told Rick to arrange a meetup with their undercover officer. Unsurprisingly, Rick yapped too close to the sun on this one. He told her that he had a buddy from New Jersey come to do the job who was a biker, but not in a biker gang, with a mustache older named Bill, who wasn't nice, but he knew his grandmother and they went to middle school together, but she'd like him, but he'd take

care of the job. And this was before they had an undercover officer in mind. to take the job. So they were kind of painting a little bit more on this one. Yeah. Thanks, Rick. Thanks, man.

Luckily for the investigators, Detective Wayne Louisa of the Pueblo, Colorado Police Department, fit the description pretty closely. Pueblo is less than an hour away from Canyon City, and Detective Louisa was happy

to assist in this case for the Department of Corrections. He was originally from New Jersey. He had a mustache and the accent, and they told Rick to set up the meeting. So he set up the meeting and told Pam that the meeting could happen as soon as the 12th of December, his birthday. And they both had a little giggle at that. Oh, happy birthday. I'm going to set up a meeting to kill my husband for you.

I'm sure it was very funny. Rick told her that Bill needed a current photo of Tim, the insurance policy, and $1,000 of the payment. of the payment up front. Then, before they got off the phone, Rick asked her, Are you nervous? Anxious, excited, ready? Pam responded, all above. Then Rick went, and the kids, you said, we'll get over it.

Pam said, yes. Then Rick asked, figure out how you're going to do it. Casually, Pam responded, I know how I'd like to, but, him and I'll talk. Finally, Rick said, I can call him up and say, hey, stop. And she said, no, no. She wanted it to go forward.

Detective Louisa called Pam up and set up the meeting. They decided to meet in a Denny's parking lot where many, many dreams have gone to die. So many hitman stories end up at a chain restaurant. What's wrong with mom and pop shops for plotting your dastardly plans? Okay? Let's go. So on the 12th, the police set up surveillance at the Denny's, and Detective Louisa sat in his truck and waited. When Pam approached and opened the passenger side door, he said,

So you're the gal that stole Rick's heart, huh? Blech. The first few minutes of the conversation is Detective Luisa trying to figure Pam out. He plays like a spooked criminal dealing with law enforcement. Though you're not wearing a wire, are you? The problem with this question is that he kind of painted himself into a corner. because how else could she respond, but are you? And he was, in fact, wearing a wire.

He had a recorder in his chest pocket, but she'd kind of opened her jacket to show the tight shirt she was wearing to prove she wasn't recording him, so he did the same. He opened his jacket and said, look, if it wasn't for Rick, I wouldn't even be here. I think that's such an interesting example

of human psychology. Like, he mimicked her, inserted a sense of urgency, and she didn't think to look any deeper than that. She said she was scared to be set up, and Detective Louisa said, Yeah, I keep looking around here trying to see if there are any undercover cops, because I know who you are and where you work, but Rick swears by you says you're the love of his life. Little did Pam know the parking lot was bristling with cops.

As the conversation went on, Detective Louisa quickly realized that the secret to getting Pam to calm down was just to mention Rick. Part of hitman stings is to get the suspect to agree to a method of killing, without entrapping them. A lot of times undercover officers will mention a few options and have the mark pick one, as well as making sure they have an out. They'll say something like,

once you leave this car, it's done. There's no going back. So in keeping with this, Detective Louisa mentioned that he was good with the electrical and could set up a fire, and that if she had any second thoughts, she had to let him know. She said she had no second thoughts.

She said it so fast she almost cut him off and then told the hitman how she thought he should kill her husband, husband in a way that wouldn't be surprising to anybody. Apparently, Timothy liked to have a few drinks in the evening and then get into the hot tub. She even said that she could coax him into having a couple of drinks at dinner before she left for work. If he were to drown while he was intoxicated, it would look like an accident and no one would suspect foul play. Some people had allegedly already expressed some concern over this habit of his. She suggested that the hitman would ring the doorbell in the evening, knock him out, and drown him.

in the hot tub. The investigators listening in were hoping for a, yes, that one works. Not a detailed fantasy about how you were hoping that someone would murder the man you promised to love and cherish for the rest of your life. As Alex Wold

described it, it was a give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves type of situation. On top of that, she brought the photo, the insurance policy, along with additional photos of the house and the hot tub. Finally, she handed over the money with the promise for the extra money after the job was done.

This might be the most solid murder for hire sting I've ever seen, and all the evidence was handed over by the suspect herself. She can't even claim entrapment because she practically planned the entire thing herself. As she got out of the car, Detective Louisa told her Merry Christmas, which was a signal to all of the listening investigators that he got all of the evidence needed to secure an arrest. Within seconds, they took her to the ground and put her in cuffs. Finally, they told Timothy Dickens the news. Oh, man.

I know. Of course, he took it incredibly hard. The entire family was shaken. Later that month, December, Pam's cousin, Lori, was at Walmart, and she turned in line to see Tim behind her. He told her he was returning all of Pam's presence, which I can't even imagine. Like, what else do you do? You have 30 days to make returns. There's not much time.

Otherwise, you have to, like, give it away, I guess. I know. But, you know, good for you, Tim. Get your money back. Hopefully it was, like, a little cathartic. I know. I know. I would hope so.

Pam took a plea deal, but her statement in court was astounding. She talked about how she believed she and Rick were just discussing her getting a divorce and that it's not fair that she's the one getting punished. So, um, what exactly does. drowning your husband in a hot tub have to do with getting a divorce, Pammy? Pam got 16 years in prison and was moved out of state for her own protection. Pam served 12 years and was released in 2015. We hope she's single.

Amen to that. Tim was able to trust again and remarried a wonderful woman about a year after Pam went to prison. Unfortunately, Tim passed away in 2009 from pancreatic cancer. Oh, man. You can tell by how Tim's family and even Pam's family talks about him what a wonderful person he was and how horrible it was for him to be treated like this. The old saying goes, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is, and it's never been more applicable than in this story.

Rick Hampton was a rapist, a liar, and a narcissist, and he was using Pam Dickens for some kind of game. Pam Dickens was using Rick Hampton as an escapist fantasy from her own life. she was willing to take her children's father away from them for a few dollars and the chance to live with a man she saw for a few stolen moments in the walls of a prison. She didn't know him, but she was willing to destroy her own life

and the lives of the people around her for him. And guess what? He didn't face a single consequence for any alleged part he played in this whole thing, which, ew. So I think we can leave the fairy tales for bedtime, don't you? So those were a couple of wild ones, right, Cam? campers. You know, we'll have another one for you next week. But for now, lock your doors, light your lights, and stay safe until we get together again around the True Crime Campfire.

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