True Crime Campfire - No Fury: Bad Bitch Cherrylle Dell Pt 2

Episode Date: May 8, 2020

In Part 1, we introduced you to Cherrylle Dell, a beautiful and manipulative woman whose ex-girlfriend, Nancy Fillmore, says murdered her ex husband Scott. Scott’s had died a couple of years earlier after drinking a bottle of wine laced with antifreeze, and the circumstances of his death led police to rule it a suicide. Now, Nancy was at the Killaloe, Ontario police station claiming it was murder. Not long before Scott died, Cherrylle had left him for a woman and immediately set about accusing him of various kinds of abuse, charges that were all found to be baseless. She seemed to be determined to ruin him and take everything: Their kids, their farmhouse, all the property they’d bought together in their 20 years of marriage. Things were about to get real nasty—and not just for Scott. Join us now for part 2 of this wild story.Sources:TV show "The Case That Haunts Me," episode "The Murder of Scott Dell""Killer Stripper" by Jessi Dillman https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/no-early-parole-for-ottawa-woman-who-laced-her-estranged-husbands-wine-with-anti-freeze-in-1995-killinghttps://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/dells-daughter-tells-of-weird-conversation/article4169567/Follow us, campers!Patreon (join to get all episodes a day early, an extra episode a month, and a free sticker!): https://patreon.com/TrueCrimeCampfireFacebook: True Crime CampfireInstagram: https://gramha.net/profile/truecrimecampfire/19093397079Twitter: @TCCampfire https://twitter.com/TCCampfireEmail: [e-mail] a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-campfire--4251960/support.

Hello campers. Grab your marshmallows and gather around the true crime campfire. We're your camp counselors. I'm Katie. And I'm Whitney. And we're here to tell you a true story that is way stranger than fiction. We're roasting murderers and marshmallows around the true crime campfire. In part one, we introduced you to Shireldell, a beautiful and manipulative woman whose ex-girlfriend Nancy Fillmore, said she murdered ex-husband Scott. Scott had died a couple of years earlier after drinking a bottle of wine laced with antifreeze, and the circumstances of his death led police to rule it a suicide. Now, Nancy was at the Killaloo, Ontario police station, claiming it was murder. Not long before Scott died, Chorrell had left him for a woman and immediately set about accusing him of various kinds of abuse,

charges that were all found to be baseless. She seemed to be determined to ruin him and take everything, their kids, the farmhouse, all the property they'd bought together in their 20 years of marriage. Things were about to get real nasty, and not just for Scott. Join us now for Part 2 of No Fury, Bad Bitch Shereldell. So in the spring of 1994, Scott had a sore throat that wouldn't go away. Soon, he felt a weird growth on the side of his neck, too.

He had cancer of the tongue and throat, and the prognosis wasn't good. The day he got the diagnosis, his friend Elsa had gone with him to the doctor, and afterward they decided on impulse to go hiking. Elsa listened as Scott talked through his options and his fears. One of his big worries was that he might lose his tongue, which is just a terrifying thought. This worried him the most because he wouldn't be able to read stories to his kids anymore. Yeah, I know. Take a moment. That's a gut punch. I know. Oh, God. I didn't make you read that part because I literally knew you would burst into tears. Uh-huh. Yeah. Campers, you have not experienced me crying yet. And it's entirely thanks to Whitney.

She would have 100% burst into tears. All right. It's really sad. But Scott, bless his sweetheart, was determined to be proactive about this shit. And he decided to record himself reading some of their favorite stories to them just in case. Oh, my God. That's so sweet. And so sad. I know. awful it's just take a moment so like we said earlier this man was determined to beat this thing bad prognosis or no i love these people that are just like i don't care what you say i'm gonna fight and they fight and they freaking win it's amazing and he fought like hell through grueling treatments and he still picked his kids up from daycare even when he was exhausted and sick and he never once complained about any of it which he would have absolutely been justified in doing in which it's absolutely okay to do but he just didn't his attitude was like i'm just going to put my head down and go, which would not be how I handled it. I would probably be really

morbid and maudlin and sad, which is fine too, but it's impressive. And he had to have surgery at one point, and he told the doctor that he had to be out in time to pick up his son from his first day of kindergarten. Now, to me, all this is important, because would a man like this kill himself? A man who had so recently fought like a lion to survive? A man who had walked through hell itself and come out the other side? I don't know, maybe. I mean, things can change and people can be faking it sometimes, but I think it's worth considering.

And all through the radiation treatments, Shirel never came to visit Scott once. Or to offer help or comfort. But that didn't stop her from claiming after he died that she was his biggest supporter during his illness. Lying bitch face. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's awful.

Scott's treatment saved his life, but it did leave him with some lingering effects. like that loss of taste and smell that we talked about earlier. He'd also lost 50 pounds and his mouth was constantly dry, but he was so proud of himself for getting through it. And he was thrilled when, in January of 95, his doctor told him he was in remission. He talked to everybody about what a gift life was,

that cancer had really taught him to appreciate it. While Scott fought to stay alive in the summer of 1994, Shirel lost one lover, Gay Doherty, and soon found another, 37-year-old Nancy Fillmore. She and Gay still kept in touch, though. Sherell called her when Scott first got diagnosed with cancer, and Gay was just stunned by her reaction. She was just tickled pink.

That Scott was dying. It's just horrifying. And apparently, she wasn't smart enough to hide the fact, which is also astonishing. At some point around this time, Gay started getting to know Scott Dell. Yeah, and she quickly realized he was nothing, like Shirel said he was.

Scott was just a good guy who adored his kids. Gay and Scott struck up a friendship, and this, of course, drove Jarrell up the wall. There's nothing a narcissist hates more than two of their quarry communicating. She tried her best to turn gay against him again, with more and more outrageous stories of abuse. But it didn't stick this time. Gay and Scott had become close friends by the spring of 1995. And that was around the same time Shirel met Nancy Fillmore, through an ad Nancy placed in the personal section of the city paper in Ottawa.

Nancy had been single for years after a nasty breakup, and she was still not over it. So she was prime real estate for someone like Sherell. Very much like Scott, Nancy later referred to her meeting Shirel as destiny. Damn, I would really like some of whatever magic this bitch has, wouldn't you? Like, I mean, she's pretty, like, okay, but not like movie star pretty. So it's got to be something besides her look, so I can only assume it's that, like, psychopath charm we keep hearing so much about. So I would like some of that, please, you know, like minus the psychopathy. Is that doable? To like retain my empathy and be able to make people

fall all over themselves to please me. Is that too much to ask? You know, it's funny because that's pretty much how we became friends. I just thought you were so cool and awesome and I was amazed that you gave me the time of day. Oh my God. That's so sweet. I feel exactly the same. I was like, I want to be her friend for sure. And I thought you were my age, not because you look at because you so don't i was like damn how does she look so young but because you carry yourself with such like poise and i just would not have pegged you as a 20 something not that 20 something's can't be like mature or whatever but i thought you were my age anyway so and then i found out your your age i was like damn is she want to be friends with an old person like is that okay

i really had no idea how old you were i was like she's like 30 something and now i never shut up about it so you you definitely know now okay i'm still dealing with it okay it's okay all right Nancy and Sherell got to know each other through letters and long phone calls. You know, this is pre-smartphone, pre-Faise time, remember. Nancy was captivated by Sherell's sweet and gentle voice. She found her hypnotic. Yeah, maybe, but it's that kind of hypnosis where you wake up in like a bathtub full of ice minus a kidney. It's not worth it, Nancy.

Of course, Shirel told Nancy all the sob stories about Scott, and Nancy's heart just broke for her. this poor delicate soul she needed a protector campers please join us in a massive eye roll won't you i love to think of like thousands of people just rolling their eyes at the same moment over cherell in her big bag of bullshit god i think the most dangerous predators are the ones that look like prey sherell dell is the definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing she really is One day in June of 1995, Nancy decided to surprise Sherell with a visit. They'd been talking on the phone and writing letters for months, but they'd never met in person. Nancy expected Sherell to be thrilled to see her.

So when she arrived, unannounced, to find Scott there and Sherell acting cold and distant, she was really confused and hurt. Nancy took them all out to dinner, then went home to Ottawa with her tail between your legs. Whomp, wamp, that hurt, and after stewing about it for a day or so, she wrote Shirel a nasty letter. But it didn't mean she'd lost interest in the hypnotic Shirel. I mean, obviously Shirel is the devil and curl, so I am not by any stretch defending her, but also don't pop in on people in it else. Unless you want to catch them cheating on you or something, in which case, go for it, fam, and please send us the video. Please.

Because we will eat popcorn and watch it. They patched things up soon after that, and the next time Nancy visited, they slept together. And soon, they were spending most weekends together. As Cherell did with all of her relationships, she moved fast with Nancy. Chorrell was renting, but she wanted to own her own house really badly. On June 16th, she told a real estate agent that her husband was dying, and she was going to inherit his estate soon. She also said her girlfriend Nancy would be contributed. to the down payment on the house she wanted.

On July 21st, she applied for a mortgage on the house. A house she couldn't even almost afford. And she once again told the realtor that she'd soon be inheriting her sick husband's estate. She was counting on that poor dude to die and fast. Shirel presented herself to many people as having chronic health problems. She claimed a problem with the bone structure in her face, headaches, chronic body, aches, asthma, and weakness. In that summer, she often stayed with a married couple she'd befriended. The Knott's. The Knott's felt sorry for Sherell because of all of her alleged ailments,

and she milked their kindness for all it was worth. She scounded free meals, spent the night with her kids so often that Mrs. Not set aside guest rooms for them, got Mrs. Not to come over and clean her house, and Mrs. Not was a hairstylist, and she offered to do Shirel and the kids' hair for free. That's how mad I was. I'm just spluttering at this point. It's a pretty sweet deal if you can get it. Damn. Yeah. Sometimes Scott would visit Shirel and the kids there. Mrs. Knott noticed that Sherell talked shit about Scott when he wasn't there,

but she was all sweetness and rainbows with him on the phone and in person. She'd have Mrs. Not fix her hair and makeup so she'd look good when he came to visit. it. Mrs. Knott also noticed that Sherell had a bad habit of getting her kids cold medicine to make them sleep. Like almost every night. She said, I have to give them this stuff, or they won't sleep. And every time she did it, the kids wet the bed. Oh, man. Holy shit, guys, if you see someone do this, please call the cops, oh my God. That's not good. Because that tells you she was way overdosing them. On weekends, Sherell would go back to her own place for Nancy's visits. And Mrs. Knott, bless her heart, would bring over a mop and broom and help her clean,

by which I mean she would clean. Sherell would sit on her ass on the sofa and watch. That summer, Sherell said to Mrs. Knott that she wished Scott's cancer would just hurry up and kill him. Oh, my God. She wanted the farmhouse. She had big dreams of turning it into a bed and breakfast or maybe a home for unwed mothers. Can you literally imagine any human being on earth that you would. less one running a home for unwed mothers. Like, by week two, she'd be selling the babies on

the black market. God only knows what else. You think she'd make it to the second week. Yeah, possibly not. Somebody'd end up dead week one. Yeah. But despite this dark talk, Shirel was nothing but sweetness when Scott was around. Mrs. Not said she'd put on a syrupy, sing-songy voice with him and hint about wanting to get back together. Just to keep him out a string. The little voice that she would do, that also reminds me of Dante Sitorious, isn't it? Like, these two bitches have a lot in common. Oh, God. They should be cellmates. Yeah. But behind his back, Shirelle loathed Scott. When his cancer went into remission, she went into a white, hot fury. She clenched her fists

and slammed stuff around the kitchen. And she said to Mrs. Not, do you know where I can hire a hitman? I've got to get rid of this guy. He's got to die. Geez, Lawrence. Campers, can we just talk for a second about why the hell people never seem to take this shit seriously? You see someone in a mad rage ranting about hiring a fucking hitman, and it never occurs to you to, like, I don't know, at least warn the target? Yeah, like, I can see Mrs. Not running straight to the police with this, but why she couldn't take Scott aside and let him know, at least? Like, that I don't understand. I mean, all it would have taken is just, little hey man you know uh shirel puts you down constantly when you're not here and she says she hates you and she just asked me where she could find a hit man to murder you and she was not kidding

watch your back i mean you could even do that anonymously just send a letter or something then at least you know you've done your your job your due diligence to try to help somebody yeah people never did it just it baffles me yeah constantly so somewhere around here when they'd been seeing each other for about four months nancy moved in with cherelle in september Sherell fell off a skateboard and hurt herself. I just... What the fuck? She's doing on a skateboard anyway. She's going to ask. I can't even imagine.

So she spent a couple weeks in the hospital, and while she was there, the Nauts kept the kids. Shirel told them to refuse Scott access to them because he was an abusive father. But the Nots had never seen any evidence of that. They'd noticed that the kids always seemed overjoyed to see him. When Shirel was discharged, she and the kids spent a whole month at the knots. And although Scott's cancer had gone into remission by now, and she knew it,

Shirel still spoke as if he were just about to die. And she was going ahead with the purchase of the house she wanted to. Her ability to afford that house was 100% contingent upon Scott's death. And Scott was cancer-free. She knew he was cancer-free. What was she thinking? I think we know. Yeah, and I got to give you a little content warning about some animal badness here,

so if you're sensitive, you might want to fast forward about 30 seconds or so. I think that should be enough. In October, Sherell's cat died. The vet said she'd probably gotten into some antifreeze, bless her little baby heart. And both Nancy and Mrs. Notts said Sherell showed zero emotion about the cat's death, but she did show strong curiosity about antifreeze, asking if it could also kill a person, And if so, how much would it take?

Now, some people have theorized that this might have been a dry run. And it's possible, although I think her reaction probably means that the kitty's death really was an accident. Like, I lost a kitty that way when I was a kid, poor baby, and it does happen because it tastes sweeter. It used to, anyway. And I think it just gave her an idea about how she could get rid of Scott. I hope so, anyway. I hope she didn't do it on purpose. And shortly after the cat's death, Scott came over to see the cat.

kids, and Sherell offered him a glass of orange juice. Now, Scott's doctor had told him to avoid acidic foods and drink, so he said he couldn't take it, and Sherell got, like, unreasonably angry. She's like, oh, for God's sake, I just poured this huge glass of juice for nothing, it's just going to go to waste and blah, blah, blah. And it was a bizarre overreaction. And instead of drinking the OJ herself or, like, offering it to one of the kids, which would be the normal thing to do, she just poured it down the sink.

I find intriguing. So, Scott, bless his heart, tried dating around this time. And he ended up meeting a nice lady named Sue. He was honest with her, though, that he still had feelings for Cheryl and that, you know, they're going through a divorce, but he still cares about her. And although she really liked him and they had great chemistry, the torch that Scott was carrying for Cheryl got very much in the way of their budding relationship, because of course it did, right? And in November, Sue asked to take a break.

She felt like Cheryl had Scott wrapped around her little finger and it just wasn't going to work. And unsurprisingly, of course, Cheryl had hated Sue on site. And when she found out that Scott was planning to bring her on a ski trip that he'd set up with the kids, Sherell said that she wouldn't let the kids go if he brought that woman. And so instead of telling her where she could shove what, Scott caved, of course, and told Sue, you know, maybe we can schedule our own ski trip without the kids. And that was just it for Sue. She's like, I don't want to be anybody's second choice and good for her for that.

And there went Scott's last chance at happiness. Bless his heart. This makes me so sad. So Scott spent Christmas that year with Shirell. family, which I think is very telling that her family liked him and respected him. So, I mean, obviously they didn't buy any of her allegations that he was an abuser or whatever. And they said Scott was in good spirits that day and he was especially happy when Cheryl gave him his gift, a bottle of his favorite wine. She'd wrapped it beautifully. A few days later, Scott was dead.

Okay. So remember that first pin we told you to put in it? Let's go back to that. Yeah, we can take that pan out now. Nancy's statement to Detective Ken Leppert in the beginning of the re-investigation into Scott Dell's death. On March 21st, 1997, four days after Nancy made that murder allegation, Detective Leppert and his partner, Dwayne Sears, met to discuss the case. The detective said about trying to corroborate all the elements of Nancy's story. Then, they got an urgent call from a hysterical Shirell. You have to come. You have to help. You have to help. be you know high drama it's always high drama so they rushed over to sherell's house and she was just frantic and she showed them a puddle of oil on the porch and she said nancy put this here

she tried to burn down my house and campers this was literally just a little puddle of like orangey red liquid that looked kind of like transmission fluid and like a couple pieces of newspaper so the detectives were unimpressed and shirel could tell so she said wait there's more she's been using my credit cards and stealing my money. So she took them inside, handed him a big stack of credit card statements, and the detective says, okay, you know, we'll take these back and we'll investigate. And on their way to the door, Shirel suddenly kind of turned around and turned her back to them. And when she turned back to Detective Leppert, she had unbuttoned the top few buttons on her blouse

and was now flashing the decalitage and a little glimpse of her lacy bra. And she said, I've been hearing all about this handsome new detective in town. turning on that famous Shirel charm. And Detective Leppert just looked at her for a second. And then he was like, must not be me. And then just turned around and left. I love that so much. Like, apparently her hypnotic talents don't work on everybody.

Like, did Shirel see a porno with that plot or something? Like, right before that? Like, honestly, this bitch is so much like Dante that it hurts. She really is a lot like Dante. She's just constantly throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. She goes, okay. Okay, how do I get them to side with me? Attented arson? No, no, no, that didn't work. Identity theft? I don't think they believe me either. Blatently seducing the officer in front of his partner. Bingo. That's got to work. So Leopard and Sears did their jobs and looked into these allegations about credit card theft. And I know this is going to shock you to your core. They were bullshit. it. Nancy hadn't been stealing from Shirell. The next step in the investigation was to track down

Gay Doherty, Shirel's ex, and the friend who had found Scott's body years ago. It took some effort to find her, but they finally tracked her down in Quebec. And she agreed to see them. When they asked her why she'd moved so far away, she said it was because she was afraid of Sherell. Yeah, and Gay had initially assumed Scott's death was a suicide because that what the original investigation had found, but now she didn't think so. And she told them a harrowing story about why she was now essentially in hiding from Shereldell. After she and Shirel broke up, Shirel took up with Nancy Fillmore and Gay began to grow close with Scott. She tried to stay connected with Cheryl and Scott's kids because she was worried about him with all the turmoil

between their parents and she wanted to be there for him and be a good influence. But Shirel and Nancy blocked access as much as they could, and when Gay did come around, they made sure the kids were never alone with Gay, not even for a minute. The only time Gay got to really hang out with the kids was when they were with Scott. Then they'd take them to the mall or out to eat or something, and the kids loved it. So a few months after Scott's death, Gay was asleep in her bed, and she woke up to a room full of smoke and fire. And she quickly realized there was no way out, except through the flames. So thank God she had a pitcher of water on her

nightstand and she just poured it over her blanket and threw the wet blanket over her head and just ran through the fire and out of the house and thank God was able to get out. Wow. And outside, she found a note taped to her mailbox that said in big scary letters stay away from Shirel's kids.

Not subtle, right? Like, obviously that was a warning. And there was no way to know for sure who left it like Shirel or Nancy or or a crony of theirs, but Gay got the message, like, loud and clear, and she pretty much just fled to Quebec. So, of course, the detectives were stunned to hear this. This was some next-level, like, truly scary shit. So that's what poor Gay was up to. Now, their next step was to interview the officer who spoke with Shirel immediately after Scott's death. He said she'd been

really animated and had so much to say that he could barely get a word in. She said she'd been on the phone with him all night. He was really drunk. He was racked with guilt over how he'd abused the children. And worst of all, he'd confided to Sherell that his cancer had come back. And Sherell said she'd begged him to start treatment again, but he just refused. He said he just wanted to stay home and die on the farm, according to Sherell. And she said, he swore me to secrecy. He didn't want anyone to know. And then she'd lamented how Scott had weighed over 200 pounds in his prime, but now he'd wasted down to 130, which actually he weighed much more than that at the time of his death. And that little detail of the specific weight that she gave the first officer

would be significant later in the reinvestigation of Scott's death, as you will soon see. Detective's Leppert and Sears began interviewing Scott's friends and family. Scott never seemed suicidal, they said. He had his death for life unlike anyone else's. They also talked to his doctor and examined his medical records. And lo and behold, Scott had not had cancer when he died. He was in complete remission. Shirell had lied. And in a subsequent interview, Nancy Fillmore dropped another bombshell. A few weeks before Scott's death, Nancy said Chorrell made an emergency call to poison control. She'd made it from a pay phone, Nancy said, to prevent any phone records.

She told the poison control operator that her name was Miss Balding and that her younger brother, Gerald, who was developmentally delayed, had accidentally gotten into some antifreeze. He'd drunk about two cups, she said. And I don't know if this helps, but he weighs about 130 pounds. Is that enough antifreeze to kill him? The operator had told her that that much antifreeze could be lethal, and she needed to take Gerald to the ER immediately. It was research, Nancy said. She was trying to figure out how much poison she'd need to kill Scott.

So obviously, the detective's ears perked up at that 130 pounds, because that was exactly the inaccurate weight that Shirel had described to Scott when she spoke to that original officer after his death. So they determined that the poison control operator had called the local emergency room to check up on Miss Balding and her brother later that day, but the ER said that no one by either of those names had come in. And Shirel did not, of course, have a brother named Gerald. So it seemed very clear to the detectives now that Shirel had killed Scott and up to now

gotten away with it. They knew how crucial Nancy would be to proving their case, and so they wanted to keep a close eye on her. Unfortunately, others seemed to have the same idea. One night, Nancy was at home when she heard breaking glass, and Sherell's new boyfriend, a champ named Chris Mickle, had broken her front window with a baseball bat and was pacing around her front yard and yelling. Get out here, bitch. Smart, dude. So police came and they arrested him and everything, but obviously it left everybody shaken. So Detective Leppert said, Nancy, look, you need to leave town. This woman is dangerous. And, you know, like, look what

happen to Gay Doherty. Go stay with family. Go stay with friends somewhere else. Let us continue our investigation and you stay safe. But Nancy, for the love of God, she was so stubborn and she didn't want to leave town until she had her stuff and her money back. And all that summer of 1997, Nancy lived in fear while refusing to leave the area. And she also talked to her co-workers at the Killaloo Resource Center where she worked about the situation a lot, you know, telling him how scared she was of Sherell that she'd killed before and might kill again, but she still wouldn't leave town. For Nancy, it was like a contest of wills. It's like almost like she felt like she had to win. She had to beat Shirel. She couldn't let Shirel think she was scared. For the record, you don't.

You don't have to win. You really don't. There's no winning against someone like Sherell Delle. You're playing her game by her rules. When you're dealing with a narcissist, it's actually the best plan to become as boring as possible to them. Now, this is something. called the gray rock theory, which I'm sure we'll get into another time. But essentially, you just make yourself as boring as a gray rock, and they quickly lose interest. Yeah, you become not fun to play with. Correct. And you become someone who doesn't feed their narcissism and you give them nothing to work with. Yeah. So right around then, Detective Lepert got a search warrant for the poison control center records for the time of Scott's death, and he found the Holy Grail,

the record of Miss Baldings call. This was crucial evidence. And with that, it was looking like this case might be about to come together. He and Detective Sears started working on getting an arrest warrant together for Shirel. With Nancy's testimony, they were pretty confident they had a winning case. But of course, as we know, the best laid plans. One hot August night, Detective Leppert was startled awake by his phone. There was a fire, colleague told him. Nancy Fillmore was dead. He was absolutely stunned. and devastated, and he felt guilty. He felt like he could have done more to convince her to leave

town. And he knew immediately that Sherell had to be involved. I mean, obviously, who else? They'd been building their whole case around Nancy. So what would happen to the case now? Could they even get an arrest warrant at this point? And they immediately began to investigate Nancy's death as a homicide. Nobody was buying this as an accidental fire. Witnesses told them that Shirel had recently been associating with a new group of quote unquote friends her boyfriend chris mickle the one who'd broken nancy's window had left her soon after his arrest and she'd started hanging out this is insane with a group of teenagers it needed but this woman is such a creak she was 42 years old at this point but she had befriended these kids most of whom were from you know troubled homes and

stuff and she bought him booze and she bought him weed and other drugs and she had them over at her house at all hours. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. No adult person needs to be friend a fucking teenager. Absolutely not. And if you are a younger camper, please keep that in mind. Yeah. Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah. An adult should not befriend a child. No. No. That's inappropriate. So most interestingly, and Icali, she was rumored to be sexually involved with one of these teens. Now, this was 16-year-old Brent Crawford. And, oh, by the way, Crawford worked at the Killaloo. resource center where Nancy had worked, where Nancy had talked nonstop about Shirel and how she'd killed her husband and how scared Nancy was of her.

Huh. Yeah. So Shirel may have had a little mole collecting intel for her? Exactly. That's what they were thinking. So they spoke to Brent's friends. They confirmed that Shirel and Brent were involved sexually, which is disgusting. I don't know if it's a crime in Canada, but, you know, she's 42 and he's 16.

Not cool. And lately, Brent had been saying some disturbing stuff. He told them that he set Nancy's house on fire for Sherell. So this was huge. But, of course, it also wasn't exactly evidence. Like, it was just the word of a bunch of kids. So they needed to find Brent and see if they could get him to confess, which usually ain't too hard when you're talking about a teenager.

Yeah, kids came under the slightest bit of pressure. It's like, hi, Brent, I'm Detective Leppert. And he's like, it was me. did it? Yeah, that's usually what happens all right. So the cops found out that this kid had left town, surprise, surprise, and was hitchhiking across Canada. So they brought in an experienced undercover detective to pose as a truck driver and try and intercept Brent. And he actually managed to do it, which is kind of astounding, really, like to find this one kid in all of like that area of Canada. So this detective picked up Brent and befriended him, basically. So this is very similar to the

Mr. Big Stings that are so popular in Canada, the undercover cop told Brent that an associate of his up north might have a job form if he was interested, but full disclosure kid might involve some illegal activity. Brent said that was a-okay with him. In fact, he'd done something pretty impressive recently and was so smooth that he hadn't gotten caught. So the undercover detective's like, well, what did you do? Brent said, I killed somebody. Set their house on fire. And I didn't leave any evidence. Yeah, good job, bud. The detective was really creeped out by this kid. At one point, Brent had asked if he had any cash on him and, like, slid his hand into his bag. And Brent was known to like knives a whole lot. So the detective thought he might have actually been going

for a weapon. It was a really tense moment. But fortunately, he was able to diffuse a situation by just handing Brent a wad of cash and saying, okay, here's an advance on the job. So the detective pressed for details, and Brent, bless his heart, was happy to oblige. He said he'd broken into Nancy his house that August night, armed with a knife, and his original plan had been to slid her throat. But when he found Nancy passed out on the couch, surrounded by candles, he had an idea. He'd kicked over the coffee table, full of candles, and started a fire, thinking police would assume it was an accident. And at the next stop, Brent and his big mouth were arrested. He told police he did it for love.

Oh, my God. Plus, Cheryl had offered him $300 a motorcycle. They'd been together. for three weeks. Three weeks. They later learned that Sherell had been bragging to her friends that she'd found a puppet who'd do anything for her. Ain't she a peach? 16-year-old puppet. Brent Crawford was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Nancy Fillmore.

So she completely destroyed this kid's life at 16. Shirel herself was finally arrested December 28, 1997, two years to the day after she poisoned Scott. She went to trial in 2001. The jury found her guilty of first-degree murder and gave her a life sentence. She's come up for parole once already, and thank God was denied, because this woman is a walking nightmare. And we don't need her walking around. She, to me, is very clearly a person who doesn't see other people as real, who just goes through life, looking for, what was she, puppet? That's what she called it, right?

To get whatever she wants. So we hope she stays her dumbass in prison forever and always, but clearly she's regularly a applying for parole. So who knows? We'll have to keep an eye on it. So, you know, I think the lingering, I mean, Shirel to me is pretty much explained and explainable. I mean, she's a pretty classic narcissist, possibly a sociopath. You know, I think we've probably all known people nonviolent versions like her. You know, when Gay Doherty said that my whole life was just swallowed by her constant needs. Like, we've all known people like that. The problem is when you add that kind of ruthlessness and that propensity to violence that she has and you get

something like the murder of Scott Dell and then the murder of Nancy Fillmore. But I'm more interested to talk about Nancy and to a lesser extent Brent. Like, do we feel sorry for these folks? Do we not? How do you feel about it? I think this is a really complex question. And you see it again and again in true crime stories, right? You see it in the case, a patron's only episode, actually of Patty James who convinced a man to commit murder for her as well. The analog catfish story, that's a really interesting case. And I think you can't not hold someone accountable because there are a lot of choices that went into this for Nancy, right?

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I certainly, we can't absolve her at all. And I have empathy for her, but I don't have sympathy, if that makes sense. It does. I mean, I don't. I wish she hadn't been murdered, obviously. I don't think she deserved that. And I do think she was definitely under Sherell's spell. And there's some legitimacy to what she was saying about Sherell saying, well, the police will think you did it. I don't think that excuses her because, you know, that doesn't mean you get to let somebody die. And the fact that she listened in on the extension is creepy to me. Yeah, that says a lot, I think, about her intentions. And, you know, just like with the Patty James case that we were just discussing, Patty James told this dude that her husband was abusive as well. And yeah, that's a really common truth.

And here's the thing, even if it was true, that cannot be the next step. No, of course not. We can't just go around murdering people, you know? And also, you weren't there. You don't know what happened, you know? I mean, you can look at the Don Silvernail case, too, where Don Silvernail, you know, a not patron's only one that everybody's heard, hopefully, where Don was told, I'll kill your son. I'll kill your family if you don't do this for me.

Even in that case, you have options. Go to the cops. Go for help. Don't try and handle it on your own. So yeah, I do feel somewhat sorry for her, I think. I do think she was probably a pretty sad person, you know, and I definitely wish that the detectives had been able to convince her to leave town and that she hadn't been murdered and everything.

And it'd be interesting to know, like, would charges have been brought against her? Probably not, I guess. but like they probably would have made a deal with her because they needed her testimony but she's certainly not innocent in all of this and of course neither is brent but brent even more he's 16 years old he's a kid he's a child there's i mean yeah what he was troubled yes and he was he was exhibiting sign dangerous signs prior to this oh for sure which we didn't go into in any great detail but that info was out there i mean he definitely was not a a you know stand-up kid, but he also had a troubled background. And then we have a 42-year-old adult woman who's taking

him in and telling him she loves him. I mean, I don't know. I have some sympathy for Brent. I think with Nancy, it's hard because I don't think she could have been, quote, unquote, saved, right? With Brent, I think there was potential for him to be okay. Yeah. If somebody, for example, had like, instead of applying him with drugs and alcohol and manipulating him and tried to help him, you know, crazy idea, but maybe it could have worked. So, yeah, anyway, there's a wild one. Right campers. And, you know, we're going to have another one for you next week.

But for now, lock your doors, light your lights, and stay safe until we get together again around the true crime campfire. And we want to send some shouts out to our newest patrons, you darling loves you. Thank you so much to Starr and Mari and Michelle and Cassie and Alexandra. We appreciate you all to the moon and back. And if you haven't yet become a patron, you're missing. and out. Patrons get every episode ad-free a day or more early, plus an extra episode a month, a free sticker,

an enamel pin while supplies less for patrons in the $5 and up tiers and more. So if you can, come join us. You can follow us on Twitter at TC Campfire, Instagram at True Crime Campfire, and be sure to like our Facebook page. If you want to support the show and get access to extras, please consider becoming a patron

at patreon.com slash true crime campfire. Thank you.