True Crime Campfire - The Art of the Steal: The Murder of Clifford Lambert

Episode Date: March 27, 2020

We all like to think we’d see a scam coming. We all like to think we’d never get got. We’re more familiar these days than we’ve ever been with catfish and Nigerian princes and “arrest warrants” supposedly issued for us based on our social security numbers. That last one never fails to crack me up. But although we might be pretty savvy when it comes to these classic cons, there’s one place where we all might be vulnerable. Our hearts. Our desire to love and be loved. Love scams have grown exponentially in recent years, with millions of dollars lost to fantasy romances that began on dating sites and ended with empty bank accounts, heartache, and humiliation. We all know the saying “If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.” But people are also really good at convincing themselves of the things they WANT to be true. Quite a few people learned that lesson in this story.Sources:TV show "Forbidden," Episode "Prince of Darkness"https://www.sfweekly.com/news/the-dark-prince/https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/I-am-a-predator-ruin-follows-him-everywhere-3187513.phphttps://www.desertsun.com/story/news/crime_courts/2017/11/01/judges-secretly-recorded-hiv-insult-could-undo-palm-springs-killers-convictions/797205001/Follow us, campers!Patreon (join to get all episodes a day early, an extra episode a month, and a free sticker!): https://patreon.com/TrueCrimeCampfireFacebook: True Crime CampfireInstagram: https://gramha.net/profile/truecrimecampfire/19093397079Twitter: @TCCampfire https://twitter.com/TCCampfireEmail: [e-mail] a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-campfire--4251960/support.

Hello, campers. Grab your marshmallows and gather around the true crime campfire. We're your camp counselors. I'm Katie. And I'm Whitney. And we're here to tell you a true story that is way stranger than fiction. We're roasting murderers and marshmallows around the true crime campfire. We all like to think we'd see a scam coming. We all like to think we'd never get God. We're more familiar these days than we've ever been with catfish. and Nigerian princes and arrest warrants supposedly issued for us based on our social security numbers. That last one never fails to crack me up. But although we might be pretty savvy when it comes to these classic cons, there's one place where we all might be vulnerable. Our hearts. Our desire to love and be loved. Love scams have grown exponentially in recent years with millions of dollars lost to fantasy romances that began on dating sites. and ended with empty bank accounts, heartache and humiliation.

We all know the saying, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. But people are also really good at convincing themselves with the things they want to be true. Quite a few people learn that lesson in the story will tell you tonight. This is The Art of the Steel, the murder of Clifford Lambert. So, campers, we are in Palm Springs, California, a beautiful place, a sanctuary. The city was created in the 50s as a getaway for Hollywood celebrities and other well-to-do folks. So it's not the kind of place where you'd expect a thriller slash soap opera to unfold. But, of course, if there's one thing that true crime has taught us, it's that weird shit happens everywhere.

Nowhere is completely safe, so you better sleep with one eye open. Just a little tip from True Crime Campfire. So, it's December 6, 2008. A man went outside to get the paper and noticed that his across-the-street neighbor, Clifford Lambert's front gate was standing open. Cliff Lambert was 74, a flamboyant retired art dealer whose home was a landmark in his neighborhood of Las Palmas, a show place. It was the only house of its caliber in the neighborhood, the kind of place where people would slow down to drive past so they could oo and awe over it. And Cliff liked to show off as well. His house was his castle, his safe place, and he'd made it his own with gorgeous artwork and decor that

echoed his gregarious personality. He took really good care of his home and grounds, so this was really weird. It might not seem like a lot to get worried about, but the neighbors had never known Cliff to leave his gate open like this, and just the guy's spidey senses were tingling. Something felt wrong and he decided to listen to that inner voice which I think is terrific because we've talked to you guys about this before how you know you need to listen to your instincts a lot more than we do and stop talking ourselves out of our bad feelings right so anyway neighbor guy called the police and he said look this might be nothing but I'm concerned blah blah blah so detective simon min and his partner arrived a few minutes later they nosed around Clifford Lambert's property a bit

check the mailbox, the trash cans, the doors in the windows, everywhere they thought they might find a reason to go inside, but they found nothing to justify looking any further, so they had to leave. They didn't have probable cause to force entry into the house. But the next morning, damn if Clifford Lambert's name didn't come up again. This time when a man showed up at the police station to file a missing person's report on the guy. Now, the man who filed the report was a guy named Eddie Mulligan. He said he was a close friend of Mr. Lamberts. He said, look, we talk every day, and he, he,

has just vanished. He blew off our plans yesterday. He just didn't show up. I went to his house last night. He wasn't there. I'm really worried he's never done anything like this before. So Eddie was really concerned, and he emphasized that to the police. But, as we have seen in so many cases before, police weren't worried about it. They told Eddie, look, your friend Clifford is a grown man. If he wants to disappear for a few days, that's his right. Remember Rick Post? Same thing, right? There's no evidence of anything criminal. There's nothing we can do. and they reassured Eddie, like, look, almost always in cases like this, the missing personal show back up within a day or two. So they told him, look, just try not to worry. They sent him

on his way, which is just, ugh, again with this. It's so frustrating. People don't just up and leave without saying anything. I mean, I can't imagine, right? Like, sometimes it must happen, but really, like, often enough to justify this kind of lackadaisical. Right. That's insane. And this is the second case this season, like you mentioned, Rick Post, where this happened, and I was super curious, as I am, and I did a little research. And it's not a very hard and fast guideline of when a missing person's case gets the attention of cops. Like, with a murder, a body shows up and it kicks off the investigation. But with a missing person's case, officers have a lot more leeway to say, yes, this is serious, no, this is not. So they take

the person's age, mental capacity and habits into consideration. But even then, if the disappearance didn't happen under a mysterious circumstances, the police still have the authority to say, nope, come back when you have something more concrete. Yeah, and sometimes their definition of suspicious circumstances will not match mine. Right. You know, I've seen that many times where I would have thought they would think, well, this is really odd. And then they're like, yeah, go home.

Basically, yeah, basically if their house isn't just covered in blood, they're like, man. Exactly. Yeah. So, but interestingly enough, I can't find any information on how many missing people weren't weren't actually missing at all. You know how they said, well, like, most of the time, they come back in a day or two. Yeah. So I'd love to know the statistics on this, especially because everyone knows from watching

cop shows that the first 72 hours of a missing person's case are absolutely crucial to finding the missing person alive. Okay. Off my soapbox. And that's what must be so frustrating for families, especially if they're at all tuned into this kind of stuff, is that they know that time is precious. somebody could be tied up in a basement you know God knows what could be happening to them

they could be being transported somewhere and you need to get on it as quickly as possible so the police did however ask for Clifford's neighbors to call if they noticed any suspicious activity and it did not take long for that to happen on January 7th which was a month after Cliff Lambert went missing his neighbors noticed a big giant U-Haul

parked in front of his gorgeous big house two men were busily emptying the contents of the house into this U-Haul. So, of course, now we got suspicious activity. So the neighbors called the police. Detectives came out, and they found that one of the guys had, like, scarpered off, but there was one man still there, still loading artwork into the U-Haul. And so they're like, okay, who are you? What are you doing here?

He said his name was Miguel Bustamante. The detective said, okay, is this your house? And he said no. He said he'd responded to a Craigslist dad. The ad had asked for somebody to help move stuff out of a house, and he said, look, I was provided with a key, the U-Haul, and $1,000, and that's all I've got. And, you know, that's possible, I suppose. $1,000 seems like a lot, but it's plausible. So police went inside the house, they didn't find anybody else around, there was no sign of Clifford, and Clifford's belongings were stacked neatly in the dining room and laundry room next to the garage, and Bustamante had obviously been carrying the stuff out.

through the garage to the U-Haul. So police weren't quite ready to let it go yet. They went and checked out Bustamante's place of residence. So he was posted up at a local motel. And in that motel room, they found stuff that told a very different story than the one that Miguel had just told them. They found a ton of Clifford Lambert's stuff, bottles of wine, shoes, clothes, a driver's license and birth certificate for Cliff Lambert.

All kinds of stuff that clearly belonged to this missing. man. So, of course, they arrested Miguel Bustamante and charged him with burglary and possession of stolen property. Detective Men tried to interview him to see if he had any idea where Clifford was, but Bustamante refused to talk. They just hit a brick wall with them. So they booked him and put him in a holding cell with other inmates. And very quickly, one of those inmates took Miguel under his sheltering wing, like a little criminal baby bird. Isn't that adorable? So Miguel, told his new buddy, I'm not saying shit. I know my rights and the cops don't know what the hell went down, so I'm not saying anything. And this, unfortunately, was true. Police were starting

to get very concerned about the whereabouts of Mr. Clifford Lambert. Cliff had grown up in Missouri. He was orphaned as a baby and adopted, and he'd struggled with some angst about that his whole life. He'd had bouts of depression and anxiety, partly because of the adoption and partly because he was a gay kid growing up in Missouri in the 50s and 60s. But despite all that, he'd always been committed to setting goals and pursuing them full force. He was an artistic, gregarious guy, and after finishing college in Missouri, where he studied theater, he moved to New York City to try to become a stage actor. He told friends, I'm realistic. If I'm not a star by 30, I'll go into another line of work, which is

I guess realistic. Fair enough. Absolutely. So he did have some success on stage, but by the time his 30th birthday rolled around, there was no stardom in sight. So Cliff stuck to the promise he'd made to himself and shifted gears. He'd always loved art and the art world, but the one thing that bugged him about it was that it was the province of the wealthy. People like him who loved art but didn't have a ton of money, couldn't afford to buy it. So he had an idea. he created a technique that replicated oil paintings so it didn't look like a print it looked like an actual painting he created a mail order business called lambert studios and it took off like mad that is so cool i love that he you know wanted to make great art accessible to people that's

very cool it's really really cool yeah so if you own a mona lisa or a starry night that looks like oil on canvas. Clifford Lambert invented that. Absolutely. So now if you wanted a famous painting, you didn't have to have millions to hang it in your living room. Nice. Clifford was headed into his second act with a whole new career. He ran the company for almost 30 years and then retired a wealthy man. As he approached 60, he moved out to Palm Springs, California and bought his dream house, the house where police had arrested Miguel Bustamante. Cliff enjoyed his beautiful home. He enjoyed his wealth and showing it off. He enjoyed his social life and his friends. But money can't buy happiness and it can't buy love. At least not the

kind of love that Cliff wanted. Enter Travis Hobbs. He met him at a party in 1997. Travis was substantially younger than he was, good looking, charming. Cliff was intrigued. They got serious, fast, and they married in a simple, quiet ceremony in Canada not too long after they started dating. For the next 10 years, they had a great life together for the most part. But Travis, who was always a drinker and a partier, started sliding into full-blown alcoholism. Oh, no. Right? And as often happens in these situations, things got volatile between the two husbands. Now, it depends on who you talk to, what version of the story you get. Clif's friends said Travis was volatile.

Travis felt Clifford was. Neighbors overheard shouting matches. At one point, Travis requested a restraining order against Clifford, and eventually it all came to a head and Travis walked out on the marriage. Yeah, once you've hit that restraining order stage, that's bad. That might be the point of no return. Yeah, I think so too. Once the law is involved beyond just the marriage certificate. You at least need some big.

help by that point, you know, with counseling or whatever. Yeah. And Cliff recognized the need for it, but he was sad. He still loved Travis. And not long after the marriage dissolved in 2007, Travis drowned in a swimming pool. Oh, my God. Yeah. A talk screen showed copious amounts of drugs in a system.

Oh. So it was most likely an accidental drowning. It's really, really sad. That sucks. Cliff was devastated, and he fell into a deep depression. He had close friends, but he was deeply lonely, and he felt guilt about Travis's death. Yeah. He felt like maybe, if they'd stayed married, he could have helped Travis.

Maybe he wouldn't have died. Cliff was in a bad place. But by 2008, he was starting to pull out of it, feeling ready to move on and try to find love again. His friend Eddie suggested he try online dating, and he helped Cliff post a profile. Several times, Cliff flew young men out to California to stay at his house for a weekend. His friend Eddie was horrified by this, and he tried to explain to him that this was a really bad idea. Yeah, he, like, immediately regretted, like, suggesting that Cliff go online and teaching him how to make a profile because Eddie felt Cliff was using such bad judgment with it. yeah he was like dude this is not safe you don't know anything about these guys other than

whatever they said on their profile pages and whatever they told you in your online chats they could be serial killers man they could be out to rob you i understand wanting to find somebody but for god's sakes if you're going to fly these guys out here at least put them up in a hotel don't let them stay in your house yeah i have to say i agree with eddie on this one although i will say this when I met my husband I met my husband online and this was in 2002 so this was quite a bit before it was normal to meet your spouse online and it wasn't through online dating we met on like a message board and that was weird back then we took a lot of ribbing for it as a matter of fact pretty much everybody I knew thought he was going to murder me I would too too they were just

convinced like he's murdered every woman in Scotland and now he's going to fly over here and start on us and you're going to be the first one and one of our bridesmaids actually made that speech at wedding. Like, we were all convinced he was a serial killer. We're glad he's not. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, you, you are probably the exception to the rule, I think. I suspect. Well, yeah, I mean, but we hadn't also just met. Like, literally Cliff would have had a brief, brief online chat with these guys, according to his friend, and would fly them out to stay in his home. Like, it was really probably not the safest thing to do. No, definitely not. But loneliness is powerful stuff. And Cliff didn't want to hear any warnings.

It's so true, man. I mean, over the many, many years of my true crime obsession, I have seen people do some seriously, bizarre, ill-advised, out-of-character stuff out of loneliness. It is a very powerful force, as you say. Yep. And of course, one way to reach out when you're lonely is to go online. And Cliff was all over those dating sites. And one day, Cliff was chatting online when a 21-year-old man named Daniel, Garcia reached out to say hello. Daniel was good-looking and friendly, and they hit it off enough in the online chat that Cliff flew Daniel out to California to spend the weekend, the way he'd done several times before with other men. Daniel Garcia was a dream boat.

Charismatic, fun, funny, entertaining. The age difference, Daniel's 21 to Cliff 72. Oh, my God. That's a big one. Didn't seem to bother either of them. That just floors me. I mean, I'm not sure I'd have a ton in common with a 21-year-old man at my age, and I'm 42. I mean, maybe. Like, I'm sure there are extra mature 21-year-olds out there. I'm sure there are. But dang, and he was 72. But I guess maybe it wasn't really a love connection they were after, which fair enough. You know, y'all do what you do. As long as everybody's being safe and honest with each other, you do what you do. But I'm definitely with Eddie about not letting somebody that you barely know stay at your house. that's just yikes. Like he did with all his weekend guests, Cliff spoiled Daniel with fine food and fine

wine and fine art and good conversation. The visit went really well. Until Daniel told Cliff he wanted to talk to him about something. Uh-oh. Yeah. And as they were sitting there with glasses of wine, maybe a fire in the fireplace, and romantic ambiance all over the place, Daniel Garcia suddenly launched into, like, a business pitch.

Oh. He was starting a computer company, he said. He developed a software program to help track child predators and distributors of images of child sexual exploitation online. He wanted Cliff to invest. Okay. Wow. So it seems like this is about something other than what it originally seemed like it was about, right? Yeah.

Uh-huh. It's like when you get a message from an old friend to meet them for coffee and when you get there, they just try to sell you on their pyramid scheme. That's like literally happened to me twice. Oh, my God. It happens so often. People haven't seen since high school or college. Oh, yeah. Well, let's definitely go grab coffee. And then it's like, have you heard of insert multi-level marketing scheme here? That's one of the things that bugs me so much is because I get so excited. I'm like, oh, my God, I haven't talked to you in so long. And it's like, give me your money. And I think they've been missing you. And then it's just they want you to buy Lula Rowe or sell Lulorow for them or whatever.

Those leggings were like, but I'm not going to lie, but they were. But also, Amazon has very similar leggings that I love and they're way cheaper. Yeah. Anyway. So the thing is, this pitch was so smooth. It was obvious. It wasn't off the cuff. He'd practiced it.

He stopped short of getting out pie charts and laser pointers. It was obvious he'd been planning this all along. So Clifford was taken aback and offended. He said, is this the reason you came out here? Were you ever actually interested in me or just my money? He was hurt. And Daniel Garcia got kind of flustered and didn't have a good answer. Yeah.

And at that, Cliff pretty much just shut it down. He said, look, I'm going to bed. You can pack your things and see yourself out. And it wasn't that it didn't sound like a good idea. It was just that he was hurt at the fact that clearly this young guy had not really seen him as a love interest at all. It was very obvious to Cliff that the only reason he had come out there was to try to get money out of him. And Garcia tried to smooth things over, but Cliff wasn't having it. And he went off to bed and Daniel packed up and flew back home.

and shortly afterward Cliff got a nasty surprise on his credit card statement Daniel Garcia had upgraded his return plane ticket to first class on Cliff's time without asking and he'd already flown in business class so like that's even more of a slap in the face right so it was really more the principle of the thing than the money Cliff was actually a really generous guy by all accounts

he loved giving gifts he loved treating his friends to dinner he loved helping out people when they needed it but he hated feeling like people were using him. And who wouldn't hate that, you know? And not long after this, Cliff came home from dinner one night to find that his home had been burglarized. Paintings were gone. You could see like the outlines on the wall where the frames had been.

And a lot of other valuable stuff was missing too. So he called the police and filed a report. And Cliff was pretty sure that the burglary had to be an inside job because he had a fancy alarm system and he always armed it before he went out. The alarm had been turned off on the night of the burglary. So what that means is it has to be somebody who knew the alarm code. And Cliff was immediately suspicious of his housekeeper because she was the only one who would know that alarm code and how to shut off the alarm system.

So he questioned her about it and she was so offended, she just quit. She just dropped her house keys on the table and walked out. But Cliff just couldn't imagine who else could have done this because nobody else had that code. So he figured, okay, I was on to the right answer. It was her good rhythms, I guess, right? So he installed a new security system. He found a new housekeeper. And one night, Cliff's doorbell rang and who was on his front doorstep, but Daniel Garcia, standing in the rain,

just like something out of a movie with a bouquet of flowers. Looking apologetic, right? And I got to give him credit here. Cliff was a hard ass, because I think standing in the rain with flowers might work on me, but Cliff didn't even open the door. He just looked at him through the window and was like, nope, I told you we're done. Just take your flowers and heck off. I mean, the thing is, this guy was not born yesterday.

He's been around the block before. He's not the type to fall for flowers. But Garcia was persistent. He kept calling and calling, and finally Cliff heard him out, and he apologized so sincerely for the flight upgrade. and for bringing up his company, and he was so penitent and kind of pathetic sounding that Cliff finally relented and invited him over for dinner. And when they sat down to talk, Garcia said, look, I need to explain to you why I did what I did. He said, this computer business, it's not about money for me. It's a personal mission.

He said, when I was younger, when I was a teenager, I think it was, I was molested by a wealthy businessman in San Francisco. And this guy thought he was untouchable. And I just want to make sure that creeps like him can never feel untouchable again, which is a great sentiment, right? So this business isn't just about business to me. It's about protecting kids like I was. And Daniel said all this with such conviction and tears in his eyes and everything that you would think that Cliff would just melt. But as I said, Cliff wasn't born yesterday.

And as Dr. Phil would say, this wasn't his first rodeo. and he felt badly about what had happened to Daniel but he knew better by now than to mix business with romance because he'd been down that road before and it didn't go so well so he told Daniel look I'm so sorry about what happened to you but I won't be investing in your company and I think it's probably best that we don't see each other anymore but I do absolutely appreciate you coming here I appreciate your apology I accept it

and I wish you nothing but the best I'm just not interested in you know, a relationship. Yeah, that's an absolutely pro move. Because you really can't come back from a gaff like that on Daniel's behalf. Yeah. Think back to the friend asking you for coffee. How likely are you to go for another coffee date with them? Right.

Like, I don't want your shitty leggings, Karen. Yeah. And, you know, the fact was, too, despite his big gorgeous house and his art collection and stuff, Cliff really didn't have the money. to invest in a computer company anyway. He didn't have a shitload of money anymore. It cost him 10 grand a month just to keep that house, which is bananas. I can't even imagine.

He had a few hundred thousand dollars in a savings account, but, you know, that had to last him the rest of his life. Plus, he just got burglarized and a bunch of his priceless art was stolen and whatnot. So he wasn't in a position where he could, like, invest in a company. It might have looked that way from the outside, but it really wasn't if he knew his inside situation. situation. And his financial situation soon got worse when yet again he came home to another

burglary. Oh my God. This was just bizarre. I know. He just got in a new security system. He had definitely armed the alarm. Nobody could understand. I mean, he was starting to feel hunted and paranoid like anybody would, I think. And he was really starting to worry about money. I mean, now his art collection has been completely plundered. He hadn't lost every single piece he had, but some of his best, most valuable pieces had been stolen. And he had no. And he had no. no idea if the police would ever get them back. Probably not. You know? So this was incredibly stressful. And then one day, just out of the blue, he got a phone call that promised to change everything for the better. It was from an attorney from New York City named Samuel Oren.

So years earlier, a friend of Cliffs from New York had left him a substantial inheritance when he passed away, about $2 million worth of substantial. Damn. Yeah. That's an incredible. gift from her friend but the will had been contested and cliff had lost in court and he ended up with nothing but now this attorney samuel oren was telling him well guess what the will's been reopened and you actually are the rightful heir to this estate after all so holy shit you know you've just been burgled twice you're worrying about money and now this is just like manna from heaven

it's just a gift out of nowhere so of course clifford is thrilled and And the attorney, Samuel, asked to meet Cliff the next night to discuss it. So they met at a nice restaurant. They were just going to have drinks and look at some paperwork and stuff. And much to his surprise, he and this lawyer hit it off on much more than a professional level. Like, this guy is handsome and, you know, he likes younger men. He was younger. And he was flirting with Cliff.

Like, unmistakably, you know, when you're being flirted with, right? So this was just a really nice surprise. we've got a big inheritance and a handsome new love interest so cliff was pretty much floating on air and the next day samuel oren the attorney called again and asked you know what we need to meet one more time before i go back to new york there's a few little things we have to iron out about the estate so cliff is thrilled to hear from this guy again and he says sure why don't you come to my house for dinner so this was december 5th 2008 and on december 6th cliff didn't show up to meet his friend Eddie at the Festival of Lights Parade.

Eddie went to his house after the event to check up on him. He was the only friend of Cliffs who had a key to the house and he just let himself in. And when he got into the living room, he found two glasses on the coffee table with like melted ice and what looked like the residue of cocktails. And once Eddie saw that, he was like, okay, looks like he might be with a date. And he decided not to go in any further because the last thing you want to do if somebody's like, you know, in the bedroom with a date, it's like barge in on that, right? So he left. But when he couldn't reach Cliff the next morning again, he got worried. And by that evening,

he was done. And he went to go and file that missing person's report that we talked about at the beginning of the episode. So he files this missing person's report. The police tell him, look, your friend's an adult. He'll be back when he's ready. Go home. And things were pretty much quiet. From that day until the end of December, but as detectives began investigating the disappearance of Cliff Lambert, after finding Miguel Bustamante plundering

his house and finding a bunch of Cliff's stolen stuff at Miguel's hotel, they discovered that three weeks after Eddie filed that missing person's report. Police had gotten a worried phone call from a Northern California real estate agent who said that a man had come to sell him

Clifford Lambert's house. Because the distance was so far to Palm Springs, the guy had gotten suspicious. Why wouldn't this man want a real estate agent in Palm Springs instead of one from Northern California? Exactly. So he looked up Clifford Lambert on the internet and discovered that he was a missing person. Yikes.

That's just such a scary thought. I know, right? Yeah. So when Detective Min found out about this phone call later while Miguel Bustamante was cooling his heels in jail and the police were investigating the case, he called the real estate agent and asked if he'd be willing to play along with the sale, you know, to flush out the people involved. The real estate agent with, I'm sure, visions of 007, said, oh, absolutely, no problem. I know. I would be so excited if I were that real estate agent. I'm like, hell, yeah, what do you need?

I'll wear a wire. You need me to go undercover? I'm there. Absolutely. See, they had to allow the sale to go through to identify the key players of the drama. And the detectives soon learned that Clifford Lambert's power of attorney had been signed over on December 11th to a guy named Russell Manning. I've got a new player entering the field. Mm-hmm. Russell Manning was like Cliff Lambert, an art dealer, a very legit, successful one in San Francisco. And now, for reasons unknown, he had the legal ability to sell Cliff's house and empty his bank

accounts. The only problem with that, of course, was that the power of attorney had been signed over on December 11th five days after Clifford Lambert had gone missing. Not good. And when San Francisco police went looking for Russell Manning, guess what? He was missing too. Ooh, not great. Nope, not great. So they called the notary who'd authorized the power of attorney document and they got a hold of the original paperwork. They'd only seen a copy of it before through the real estate agent. Many states do not require a thumbprint for a power of attorney authorization, but fortunately, California is one of the states that does, and they quickly determined that the thumbprint

on the document didn't match Cliff Lambert's. Yikes. Interestingly, though, it didn't match missing art dealer Russell Manning's either. The print was a match. to a San Francisco attorney named David Rplogel. Oh, my God. How many people are involved in this thing? Oh, just wait.

So it was starting to look like this lawyer, David Rplogel, had posed as Cliff Lambert for a notary, then signed over Cliff's power of attorney to Russell Manning. But why? Police got arrest warrants for both Manning and Raplogel, but nobody had any idea where either guy was. And as they looked for these men, another actor in the detective's little real estate play wandered onto the stage. Jesus. A guy named Kashal Nerula, who happened to be in possession of the deed to Cliff Lambert's house.

Signed over to him by Russell Manning. So Detective Men googled Nerula's name and the search results lit up. He was all over the place. A native of Nepal, Naurula had a years-long record as a con man in California. Kashal Naurula was a master storyteller, a consummate actor and manipulator. His schick was to tell people that he was the prince of Nepal. I can't make this shit up. Oh, my God.

And that his family had been exiled, or that he came from a family of wealthy Nepalese diplomats. In reality, he grew up in a middle-class family in Nepal. He liked watching American TV. He was in love with the idea of emigrating to the states and living a wealthy lifestyle there. And his plan for how to get there was this. He posed as Nepali's prints to apply to U.S. universities. He ran the old Nigerian print scam on these colleges. Yeah, and this is one of the oldest cons that's still in use today.

actually originated in the 1400s. Isn't that interesting? You tell your mark that you're from a wealthy family, sometimes a royal family, but for one reason or another, your family money is tied up at the moment. Sometimes it's about an inheritance, sometimes it's about political unrest that's just somehow frozen your accounts. So you just need a little money to arrange to release it all. So, you know, if you'll just write me a check, I'll reward you handsomely later on. Yeah, and for some reason, this works a fair amount of the time. And it worked, believe it or not, at the new college of San Francisco. Oh, no.

They were thrilled at the prospect of having a young royal as a student. So the school sponsored Nerula's student visa and paid for his tuition, books, housing, and food. In return, he promised them a million-dollar donation. To supplement the room board and meal plan, the school was giving him for free so he could swank around and keep up the appearance of a wealthy young royal. Nerula told the university president that his sister had been kidnapped by guerrillas in Nepal. Oh, my God. Can I just for a second, like, first of all, this is hilarious and ridiculous. But also just a quick note about how dumb I used to be when I was a kid.

when I was a child, whenever there would be talk on the news about guerrilla warfare, I thought it was actual guerrillas. Oh, me too. You did? Oh, my God. I've always been embarrassed to tell anyone about this, and now I feel so seen. No, no, I see you. I see you, because I was the same way.

It took a very confusing conversation with my dad. This is a partnership that was meant to be. We're drinking that dumb bitch juice over it. We were imagining. like guerrillas running around and just like shooting each other. Yeah, exactly. So his sister had been kidnapped and the royal bank accounts were frozen at the moment, of course, so the family couldn't pay the ransom.

The president, bless his heart, gave him his own money to pay the sister's ransom. Bless his heart. And of course, the money went right and tend to. Ruelo's bank account. And Naurula had this great habit of always telling people how much his shoes cost because the guy taking your order at Panera really needs to know that your shoes cost $1,500, you pitiful young dweblet. God, just imagine like the insecure, like the deep-seated insecurity that must lie just right under the surface of that kind of bullshit right there, that kind of braggadocio, like

And also, he would go into a bar and he would jump up on a table and, like, announce that he was there. And then he would start tossing $100 bills into the air, just $100 bills, just making it rain, not with dollar bills, with flipping $100 bills. Gross. What is wrong with you? He's a prince, Whitney. He can do that. And it's important. If you watch American Greed, which is my jam, I love that show, you see a lot of the time that a really important step in these con games is this exact.

kind of thing, where if you're pretending, for example, to be a Nepalese prince or a very wealthy investment banker who can make big money for your investors or whatever, then you've got to swank around. You've got to give the impression that you're doing well, right? Because then people think, well, you'll help me do well. And so that's why he was conning this president out of this quote-unquote ransom money so he could afford those $1,500 shoes and everybody would buy that he was a royal so he could continue scamming this university. It's like a cycle, you know, a circle. Yeah, absolutely. The circle of ick.

Yeah. It's a circle of ick indeed. This little dickhead lived high on the hog on his stolen money for a while. And that million dollar donation never came, of course. But the college, again, bless their hearts, had built it into their budget. This was a small private college, and they were already struggling financially. So when they realized that Nerula had taken them for a ride and that money wasn't coming, it forced them to shut down. The entire college, with a 30-year history.

Awful. Just imagine all the jobs lost because of this, all the students left in the lurch. But, of course, Kashal Narula didn't give two shits. Oh, of course not. All he cared about was Kashal Narula. Yeah, and this is the thing. can talk about con games and scams sometimes and joke about them and it's like you see this reflected in the sentencing that often people will just devastate people's lives and end up

with some pathetic little four or five year jail sentence and that just kills me because you know I think a lot of times these scammers are as bad as murderers in terms of just the devastation that they wreak I mean you know you might say oh yeah get that free education bud but this entire college shut down like like you said so many people lost their jobs think of the faculty whose careers were derailed, the students who were halfway through their degrees and suddenly, like, their school just closes. Yeah. Also that this guy can buy his $1,500 shoes.

Not cool. Yeah, it's one thing to get free education. It's an entirely another thing to get somebody to pay for a ransom that doesn't fucking exist. Well, absolutely. And to be perfectly frank, I don't think he wanted a free education. I think what he wanted was to come to the States and steal money and go to clubs. You know, oh, I'm all for free, free college or whatever, but I'm just saying, like, this was not a victimless crime. No, absolutely not.

So it's not, you're not sticking it to the man when you screw over a small private college that was already financially struggling. Oh, exactly. Yeah. So having burned his bridges for the moment in San Francisco, Nerrula went to Hawaii, because, you know, was getting a little too hot in San Fran, where he took an apartment in an upscale building and met a wealthy, successful Japanese businesswoman. he told her his family were wealthy Nepalese diplomats doing his typical stick and they got romantically involved pretty quickly and this lady fell for him hard and it's easy to see why because he's a damn good looking dude I hate to say and he's got that asshole con man charm just coming out his eyeballs

his earballs too probably and the ruler of course told her he was madly in love with her but he said he cared for her too much to sleep with her before marriage oh for fuck's sake yeah I imagine this is how I got out of having to do anything with her sexually. And he started introducing her around as his fiancé. So his quote-unquote fiancé wanted to stay in Hawaii. And Kashal told her if she invested in U.S. property, he could get her a visa. All she had to do was open a bank account and deposit half a million dollars.

So she was thrilled. She was like, yeah, absolutely. She went to the bank with Nerula and opened an account, put $500,000 in it. and then she had to fly back to Japan. So she went back to Japan. She waited to hear from him about her visa. And a month later, back in Japan, she got her bank statement. And her half million dollars, gone, every penny.

Nerula had pocketed some of those temporary blank checks that they give you with a new account. And he had just like pocketed some of those when she wasn't looking, you know, because they went to the bank together and just emptied the account. And then he'd flown back to San Francisco. go and started blowing through her money. Wow. So, as you've probably already figured out, Nerula was pretty much a classic narcissist.

He had a towering, I deserve to rule the world type of ego, had to have the best of everything, and felt he was entitled to it. And unfortunately, with his gift for storytelling, he could be absolutely convincing. So when his last marks half a million dollars ran out, he ran his kidnapped sister scam again and got a cool 50K out of somebody for that.

Then he was accused of stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of jewelry from a friend's mom, which that's pathetic stealing from your friend's mom, dude, really? He posed as an art collector and got an art dealer to give him $400,000 for a painting he didn't even own. He ran Ponzi schemes, he stole identities, he stole money from people who cared for and trusted him. And, in addition to that, he told people wild stories about working for M. and running from Israeli spies and terrorists. And in less than a year, he netted well over a million dollars

from these various scams and cons, and he'd gotten away with all of it. And as soon as he had money, he spent it, which just kills me. It's like, you've got over a million dollars. You could be set for the rest of your life if you invested that wisely and lived modestly, but oh no, we got to have our $1,500 shoes.

We got to go make it rain with $100 bills at the club. I just cannot with these people, all these greedy pricks. Anyway, so finally, the art dealer realized what was up and pressed charges. Finally, somebody presses charges. This is another thing that's common in scams and cons is where people who have been taken are so humiliated and hurt that they just don't go to the police. Happens all the time. It's really unfortunate. I mean, I'm not judging them for it. I get that. But it's just really frustrating because a lot of these people end up just bulletproof because nobody's turning them in. But this guy finally did that. He was like, nope.

Screw this, I'm going to the cops. And this was Nerula's first brush with the law in the states. And he barely managed to scrape up enough money for bail, and now he's got these charges pending, so he's going to need money for his defense. And this was the situation that he was in when his on-again, off-again, boyfriend, Daniel Garcia, clued him in to the rich possibilities in a guy named Clifford Lambert. So, Nerula did not have a permanent address link to his name, but Detective Min saw that Nerula had. a court date in March. So they waited until then, and then they showed up to the courthouse, and Nerula was there, and they arrested him. And he seemed just completely shocked to see them, like, what, deed to whose house?

I have no idea what you're talking about Clifford Lamber, who, what? And claimed to have no idea why Palm Springs detectives would want to talk to him. Yeah, sure, Jan. But interestingly, Nerula had been accompanied to his court date by none other than attorney, David Raplegal. This is the lawyer whose thumbprint they'd found on the document that gave Russell Manning, power of attorney, over Clifford Lambert's affairs. Repulgul, in fact, was the one who had forged Cliff's signature on that document. Now, what the hell is he doing representing Kishal Nerula? They didn't know yet, but it stunk to high heaven, and hey, two for the price

of one, right? Double habeas gravis, so they arrested both men, and back at the Palm Springs police station. Cajal Nerula said he had no idea where Clifford Lambert was. He wasn't involved in this at all. I've never seen the deed to that house in my life, what? And when Detective Men asked him who might have been involved, Nerrula said, well, there

is one guy who I always thought was a little off. Daniel Garcia. And on March 9th, police got a tip on Daniel Garcia's location. When they interviewed him, he pointed the finger right back at Kashal Narula. He said, I was off. He said, what? I always thought He was off, et cetera, et cetera.

So they're just pointing the finger at each other. Yeah, this is like that meme with the two identical Spider-Man's pointing at each other. Right. Exactly. And, you know, it was hard to know who was telling the truth. But fortunately, one person soon did come forward who was willing to talk. Remember the inmate who had taken U-Haul guy, Miguel Bustamante, under his wing in the county lockup? Well, this guy came forward now, and he had a story to tell.

He said he'd asked Bustamante. during one of their conversations if he was worried that they were going to find that Cliff guy and he was going to get in huge trouble for having all his stuff in his hotel room. And Bustamante was like, nah, he ain't coming back. And his jail buddy said, well, how do you know? And Bustamante had said, because I don't believe in resurrection. Eof, that doesn't sound good for Cliff, right? And according to the cellmate, he hadn't stopped there.

But like most prison snitches, he wanted a little quid pro quo clerical. Reese before he'd give up the rest. So Detective Men agreed that, look, if what you have to say is worth anything, we can talk about getting you some leniency in your case. All right, so the cellmate said that U-Haul dude Miguel Bustamante had told him that Cliff Lambert had been murdered, and he gave the names of several people who had been involved. So, the detective said about corroborating this guy's claims. So first thing they did was they took a look at Miguel Bustamante's cell phone, which they had confiscated at the time that they arrested him for having all of Cliff's stuff in his hotel room. And it's too bad that they didn't look through this thing at the time they arrested him in the hotel room

because it was a gold mine of evidence. And if they had looked through it then, they could have solved this thing like months sooner. So on Miguel Bustamante's phone, they found thousands and thousands of text messages, and the text made it very clear that Daniel Garcia and Kashal Nerula had been keeping in close contact the first week of December. So the story behind Cliff Lambert's murder was years in the making. It all began with a lawsuit filed against a wealthy San Francisco businessman. When Daniel Garcia filed a molestation case, this is the one that he told Clifford Lambert about

when he was telling him about his computer business, alleged computer business he wanted to start. He had been working at that time with attorney David Replogle. So Repulgole was representing Daniel Garcia in this lawsuit. The case had made the national news, unsurprisingly, and had netted Daniel Garcia a $1.5 million settlement. Now, this had been all over the papers, and it caught the attention of Kishal Nurula, who, you know, is always on the lookout for Marx, and he had reached out to Garcia. But once they got to know each other a little bit, interestingly enough, Kishal decided not to con him, but to team up with him instead. And he and Garcia, like, got together both as criminal co-conspirators and as lovers. Game recognizes game, right? Isn't that fascinating?

Yeah, it's like season one all over again with Jay Smith and Bill Bradfield. It totally is, absolutely. So people who knew them said they had a codependent relationship, very dysfunctional. One day they'd hate each other. The next, they were madly in love. Yeah. They were toxic together, but really passionate too, which just to me sounds like. like a hot mess on toast. It sure does.

And one day after a fight with Nerula, Daniel Garcia had gone on the prowl on a dating site and found one Clifford Lambert's profile. Ooh, rich guy. Possibilities. Daniel had a history of starting businesses, but no one has ever been able to show that any of these were real or legitimate. Instead, he'd collect investors and, screw them over, pocketing the money and moving on. It was similar to the Ponzi schemes that Nerula liked to run, but Garcia wasn't quite as good at it.

This was the game he was trying to play with Cliff Lambert. But much to his surprise, Cliff wasn't having it. Once he brought up the computer company and asked him to invest, Cliff was out. So once he saw that his plan wasn't going to work this time, Garcia hooked back up with his partner in crime, Kishol Narula. He called him his

Dark Prince, by the way. Oh, boy. Nerd alert. Dark Prince. Get over yourselves, you dorks. Losers. Dark Prince. Barf.

Garcia had managed in the weekend he stayed with Cliff to get hold of his address, alarm code, and social security number. All of which he provided gift rates. wrapped to Nerula. Yeah. Look, he said, this guy has no family, he's not close with his neighbors, he's a prime target, and he's loaded.

If you went missing for a little bit, nobody would even notice. They decided to kidnap Cliff and get him to sign over all his accounts to them. They called their plan. Operation Craigslist, initials, C.L., just like Cliff Lambert, and they were so pleased with themselves about that. Did we say nerd alert? And they knew they'd need some muscle to help them carry it out. So they went to their friend, bartender Miguel Bustamante, and told them that Cliff

Lambert had raped Cichal and given him HIV. This old man was a monster. And now Cajal was infected with this scary disease. It's very treatable now, of course, but still scary. Oh, absolutely. So they wanted revenge. And Miguel wanted to help. He offered to take care of kidnapping cliff for $30,000. And Bustamante had a roommate, Craig McCarthy. He asked him if he'd go along too. And Craig was like, sure. Like you do. Cheese and freaking crackers. Who are these people? Okay. If someone asks you to help them kidnap somebody, just a tip, you say no. Okay? It's easy. Just no.

And then you go about your business. And by the way, this was completely untrue, like what they were telling Bustamante about Cliff and Cichal and Rula. They'd never even met. So that was horseshit. They were just trying to get everybody mad at Clifford so that they could justify what they were going to do to him. Yeah. And by the way, there's something about Nerula and Garcia. Like you were talking about how they called the Project Project CL or Project Craigslist or whatever.

There's something about these guys that really reminds me of the idiots from our Troublos. seven episode, like the con artist with the charter plane company, just a couple of dorks who wanted to play like James Bond, hitman, Prince, whatever. Jeez, Louise, just, yeah, they remind me of these guys, except more dangerous, like a murdery version of those dorks. Yeah, the unwarranted self-importance in both in both of these cases is just staggering. Yeah, and on one of the sources that I use, I forget which one looking up, um, information about this case somebody had said i think it was one of the detectives said that that was

his impression as well that for nerula at least it was about the money and he was definitely greedy but it was also very much about wanting to live a fantasy life and wanting to be seen as the big man yeah it wasn't just about the money it was also about you know saying oh yeah i used to work for my six and having people believe it and think he was cool pathetic very pathetic the first step in Project Craigslist was for Daniel Garcia to get back in Cliff's Good Graces, hence the flowers on the doorstep, the heartfelt apology, the story about his history with the businessman, but Cliff didn't budge. So when that didn't work, Kishal was up. And he was

damn good at this stuff. He posed this in New York attorney, Samuel Oren, and convinced Cliff he was about to come into an inheritance. Presumably, Cliff had told Dan Daniel about this failed inheritance during their first weekend together, and Daniel had told Gishal. Gishal's job was to get Cliff out of the house. He'd made him for drinks to discuss the inheritance. Then Daniel was to be at the restaurant, and when he saw Cajal and Cliff sit down, he was to text Bustamante and McCarthy to let them know they could go into Cliff's house.

So the night arrived, and they swung into action. but Cliff was a tougher mark than they expected. Cashall tried like hell to get Cliff to sign documents right there at the restaurant. You know, documents like dummied up paperwork that he'd made to look like inheritance stuff and that presumably he was going to doctor later. But it didn't work. Cliff was cautious. Wanted to let his attorney look at the stuff first. Gishal knew people.

He didn't think this guy was going to go down easy. So from the restroom of the restaurant, Kashal texted Daniel. He won't sign over anything, going to have to kill him. Daniel texted back within a minute. No problem. I'll let the boys know. God, that's so chilling how quickly both of them just went from this plan of we're going to doctor up paperwork.

We might hold this guy for a few days and then we're going to just disappear with his money to we're going to have to kill him. No problem. I'll let the boys know. Jeez. way so scary. Do you think this is our always a backup plan? Yeah. Oh, for sure. In Kishol Nerula's mind, for sure. And probably in Daniel Garcia's as well. Now, the two Mutton Jeff, the Keystone killers that were ready to get into, Bustamante and McCarthy, I don't think they

expected this. No, not at all. So he texted the boys. Daniel Garcia afterwards left town. Alibi at all. Meanwhile, Bustamante and Craig McCarthy he started frantically looking around Clif's garage or something they kill him with. Yeah, I love this. They're like in his garage waiting for him to come home from the restaurant. And they're thinking they're just going to grab him and like tie him up and start this process of like getting him to give up all his pin numbers and stuff. And then he gets this text like, oh, by the way, you have to kill him.

Nobody'd said anything about killing anybody. So these idiots are like frantically like, what do we do? Is there a tire arm somewhere? Like frantically looking around. Oh, it's so awful. so they plan to jump out from their hiding spots in the garage when cliff got home but instead they kept waiting for one another to jump out so when one didn't jump out as cliff got out of his car neither did the other yeah they chickened out like are you gonna do it no are you are you just we're just no you you and you know the the creepy thing is that Cliff had actually told one of his friends the next day, that he had gotten a creepy feeling when he had pulled into his garage the night before, and that he had actually thought he was going to walk in on another break-in.

So just picture this. You're in your car, you come home from your dinner with this New York attorney slash love interest or whatever. You pull the car in, and you get out, and the hairs on the back of your neck kind of stand up, and you think, oh, God, did I get burgled again? And then you walk in and you're relieved. But again, our little voice doesn't lie to us. The reason you had those creepy feelings, the reason you had the Wiggins is because these two jackasses were crouched in the shadows, looking at each other, waiting for one of them to be brave enough to start the whole process.

And they just didn't do it. Yeah. That night. And that says a lot about, like, humans having this weird sixth sense. Like, maybe he heard shuffling, like, very low level. Maybe you heard somebody breathing. It's just very weird. Or just didn't register it.

That's a lot of what that Gavin De Becker book, The Gift of Fear, is about that, you know, your sort of subconscious is registering all these little things that your conscious mind is not. And it's putting it all together. And it's telling you you're in danger. I mean, he knew something was wrong and he was right. So they chickened out. Yeah. That night they chikened out. And poor Cliff went inside without ever knowing that there were two men in the shadows waiting to kill him.

and Cachal was furious at this yellow-bellied behavior. He told them that they had to kill Cliff. They'd try again the next night. And the next morning, Cajal called Cliff again, as Samuel Oren, and asked to meet Cliff that night. Cliff, thinking he'd found a new love interest, agreed, and that night, after a drink on the couch with Cliff, Kashal had asked if there was somewhere he could go freshen up. Cliff directed him to the restroom, and Kashal went around through the kitchen and let in Bustamante and McCarthy through the garage door. They each grabbed a knife from Cliff's butcher block on the counter, and because they are both dipshits, they made a ton of noise doing it.

Cliff heard them, and he came in to investigate. and at Nerula's signal, they attacked him. Oh, so long. Kashal, arms crossed and leading against the doorway, watched, calm as could be, as the 70-something-year-old man was brutally stabbed to death. And when they finished, he said, good job, and ordered them to loot the body. Oh, my God. As they put it on one TV show we watched about this case, they picked him.

over like a couple of vultures. This kind, generous man who had lived a good life, had been a good friend, and now lay in a pool of his own blood on his kitchen floor. These shit stains tugged his ring off his bloody finger. Disgusting. They rolled his body in bedding and put him in the trunk of his Mercedes. Kishal said, go bury it in the desert now.

I don't even want to know where. Just deal with it. Well, I hate him. And in the following days, the men took control of Cliff's finances. So attorney David Rapogel forged Cliff's signature and helped forge documents for power of attorney. Russell Manning, the art dealer, walked into Cliffs Bank and withdrew $130,000, of which he was allowed to keep $30. A few days later, he withdrew another 36K and was a little. allowed to keep five.

Soon after that, Koshal and Daniel Garcia sent Russell Manning on a little errand to Mexico, and while there, they set him up for possession of drugs, and Russell Manning ended up in a Mexican prison, unable to say a word against his co-conspirators. Damn,

what a pro-fucking move. Yeah, no kidding. They got so close to tying up all the potential witnesses. So close. Yeah, I suspect they saw him as a weak link, you know, and they thought he would be the most likely to blab of everybody. Maybe they had a plan like that for

everybody, I don't know, and just got stopped before they could do something like that with all of them. I'm surprised they just didn't have him killed, honestly. Yeah, me too. So police now had Kashal Marula, Daniel Garcia, Miguel Bustamante, and they quickly located Russell Manning in the Mexican jail.

They found Nerula's, Garcia's, and herplogles fingerprints all over these forged documents. And they soon found Craig McCarthy, one of the Keystone killers who seems to be the only one with anything approaching a conscience. McCarthy had wanted to be a nurse

before he got himself mixed up in this nonsense and he expressed remorse to the detectives. He's the only one of all of these people who did and agreed to turn state's evidence. So he went with the detectives back to the crime scene, you know, Cliff's Kitchen, and walk them through the whole awful scene and you can actually watch a video of this,

we'll try and find it for you. Then he drew them a map of where to find Cliff's body but sadly they were unable to find it i mean the desert is just enormous and as far as we know it's never been found for his part kishol narula represented himself at trial because of course he did is that surprise anybody and the jurors were so not having it like apparently several of them were just glaring at him the whole time so apparently mr charming wasn't so charming anymore you're slipping kishal and when he was convicted of the murder of clifford lambert and the was read, he just sat there and smirked.

Eich. Real nice, Dickery. So he's serving life without parole, which is exactly what he deserves. But there is a postscript to this story, and it is an ugly one. Gajal Nerula may be getting a new trial. Because, yeah, this is infuriating. The judge who presided over his trial, Judge David B. Downing, was caught on audio tape, calling Nerula and Daniel Garcia assholes and clowns and commenting on the fact that one of them was HIV positive and had licked the envelopes for some of the court documents.

And then this ignorant shitbag proceeded to say, oh gross, God knows where that tongue has been. Holy shit. Ugh. And worse than that, Judge Downing, who is now retired, thank God, said he wouldn't sever Nerula and Garcia's cases and give them separate trials. He said combining the cases into one trial would be, quote, every prosecutor's dream. He said, quote, one defendant will take the stand and say it wasn't me, it was him. The other one will take the stand and say it wasn't me, it was him. Then the jury convicts them both. That's great. That's why I won't sever anything. Screw

that. Okay. Here's the thing. Yana, you're not supposed to be biased toward the prosecution. You massive twat. You're supposed to be impartial. That is your job. And this campers is why we can't have nice things, because dick for us like

this judge exists, and screw it up for the rest of us who actually want a justice system. Kashal Narula is the guiltiest guilty face in all of guiltvania, and he deserves to rot in prison forever and always. And now he might get a chance of freedom because this jack weasel of a pathetic excuse for a judge had to be an idiot. And that is not okay with me. It's not okay. You tell him, Whitney.

I'm mad. I am too. Anyway, we can only hope that if that does happen, which seems quite likely to, be honest. Yeah, and appropriate, honestly. Absolutely. Nerula is once again convicted and sentenced to life without parole. Please. Daniel Garcia also represented himself at trial, by the way, and was also convicted. I have to imagine that any time a defendant's like, I'm going to defend myself, like the prosecution's just high-fiving each other in the background. Oh, 100%. And they often try and fight it because they realize it's often like grounds for appeal.

He, too, is serving life without parole as our former attorney David Rplogel and U-Haul guy Miguel Bustamante. Craig McCarthy, as you know, turned state's evidence and he pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter in exchange for a lighter sentence he's serving 25 years. So, that's the story campers. It's a wild one, isn't it? You know we'll have another one for you next week, but for now, lock your doors, light your lights and stay safe until we can get together again around the true crime campfire.

And we want to send a shout out to our newest patron. Thank you so much, Leah. We appreciate you to the moon and back. Thank you. And if you haven't become a patron yet, you're missing out. Patrons get every episode a day early, plus one extra episode a month and a free sticker. We're working on some more great extras right now, so if you can, come join us. You can follow us on Twitter at T.C. Campfire, Instagram at True Crime Campfire, and be sure to like our Facebook page. If you want to support the show and get access to extras, please consider becoming a patron at patreon.com slash true crime campfire.