True Crime Campfire - The Magician and the Fool: The Story of the DC Snipers, Pt 2

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, campers. Grab your marshmallows and gather around the true crime campfire. We're your camp counselors. I'm Katie. And I'm Whitney. And we're here to tell you a true story that is way stranger than fiction. We're roasting murderers and marshmallows around the true crime campfire. When we left you at the end of Part 1, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo had begun a killing spree that took them from Tacoma, Washington, through Arizona. Louisiana, and Maryland. By October 2002, they had killed or wounded ten people, with Muhammad pointing his finger, and Malvo pointing his gun. Malvo believed himself to be a soldier

Starting point is 00:00:42 in the fight to free the marginalized people of the world. Muhammad made him his acolyte, traveling across the country, playing him anti-American propaganda through headphones as he slept, putting him through a grueling physical regimen, as well as making him eat a sparse vegetarian diet. Muhammad told him that white people were devils and that they had to prepare for the oncoming race war. For 30 days, they would kill six white people a day until the U.S. government agreed to their terms and paid them off to go away.

Starting point is 00:01:14 Join us now for Part 2 of The Magician and the Fool, the story of the D.C. snipers. In particular, Muhammad prepared Melvo to target pregnant white women. He said American culture, quote, is based on death. And since that's the only language they understand, that's the language we're going to speak. I'm going to punish this nation for what it did to me. What Lee didn't know was that Muhammad's motive had nothing to do with politics or social justice. It was about as bog standard as they come, revenge against his ex-wife and custody of his kids. His ex-wife Mildred had gained custody of the couple's three children after Muhammad kidnapped them for 18 months.

Starting point is 00:02:04 After the court case, Mildred's lawyer insisted that she not wait to take the kids back to her home in Maryland because he was so convinced she was in danger. At the beginning of September 2001, Mildred brought her babies home. Finally. It was lucky, too, because it was just like, I think, five or six days before 9-11 that she was able to leave. If she would have waited, it's possible she would have had to wait due to the baby. the planes being grounded. That's so funny because, you know, the last case we did was the same.

Starting point is 00:02:33 Yeah. We was on 9-11 also with Elisa McNabbney. That's wild. This threw a wrench into Muhammad's quest for revenge. He didn't know where his ex-wife was. No problem, though. Muhammad got in contact with a Tacoma-based men's support group. His ex-wife was crazy.

Starting point is 00:02:50 She wouldn't let him see the kids. He had no idea where his precious angels were. Now, any kind of responsible person would look into this. right? Right? Make sure he hadn't like, yeah, make sure he hadn't like kidnapped his children for a year and a half or abused his wife or was stark raving mad, right? Right? Not so much. They immediately made themselves helpful and tracked down Mildred's address in Maryland. Oof. Yeah. So this is how we get to a small used car dealership on September 11th, 2002. Muhammad and Malvo had been studying up on the Irish Republican Army's Green Book for tips on urban guerrilla warfare.

Starting point is 00:03:33 Always a solid plan. Right. Jesus, right. According to Malvo, they had perfected shooting out of cars, which was ideal for an unassuming sniper's nest in a quick getaway. At Shurshot auto sales in Trent and New Jersey, they met with owner Chris Okupski and told him they were looking for a cheap car.

Starting point is 00:03:51 In particular, they wanted to look at the 1990 blue Chevy Caprice in the lot. To Chris, the pair seemed kind of closed-dopsy. like they didn't want him in their business. When he handed them the keys, they got right to business being as weird as possible. They kept getting in and out, laying down in the back seat, lifting up the back seat,

Starting point is 00:04:09 scrutinizing the trunk a little more closely than the standard. Could my gym bag fit back here? Chris thought it was kind of odd, but they had cash in hand and purchased the car for $250. A friend of Mohammed's, Nathaniel O'Osborne, agreed to help Muhammad register the vehicle and allowed Muhammad to register it at his address.

Starting point is 00:04:29 Osborne was a Jamaican citizen that had met Muhammad during his time overseas. And I want to be clear, there's no reason to believe that this Osborne character had any idea what Muhammad had planned. So just a little TCC tip for y'all. Don't let a friend ever use your name, address, social security number, or any other identifying info on a government document. There's like no good and legal reason to do that and it will almost always end badly for you. Yeah, we've seen that. a bunch of times do not if somebody says hey can I just like borrow your social security number no right no and and like Osborne ended up in like heap like neck deep in trouble he was he was

Starting point is 00:05:07 questioned by home security he was yeah I'm sure they crawled all the way up his ass from like months yeah yeah yeah Lee and John went about molding the vehicle to their needs they removed the metal separating the back seat from the trunk so someone could crawl back to the trunk but now they needed a way to fire a gun from there. They sought out a notch right above the license plate that was just wide enough for a rifle's barrel. Lee could lie flat on his stomach, look through his sight, while John would act as the spotter, giving him his targets via walkie-talkie. The next thing to do was to test it out. On October 2nd, 2002, 55-year-old James Martin was heading to the grocery store for a quick trip after work. His church's youth group was meeting that night and he was buying

Starting point is 00:05:52 snacks for the kids. He was a busy guy. He volunteered at his 11-year-old son's elementary school as a judge for science fairs and a representative for the PTA. He helped get the school new computers. He was a boy scout leader and worked at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. He was pretty much everything you could hope for in a citizen. He made the world around him a better place. And in the late afternoon that October, he was shot dead outside of his car by Lee Boyd Malvo. No one at the seen had seen anything. That first day was a trial run to make sure they could shoot someone and escape without catching attention. It worked, and the next day they began their reign of terror in earnest. The next morning, Jim Ross was heading to his local YMCA for his morning workout. In the

Starting point is 00:06:40 parking lot, he noticed a blue Chevy Caprice parked with two men inside. The older one was sleeping in the driver seat and the younger one was sleeping in the back, with his legs propped up on the passenger seat. Something in his gut pulled. He couldn't feel. He couldn't feel figure out why, but he didn't like what he saw. Even now, he can't articulate why he had such a bad feeling. He just says, I've never seen anyone do that. He told himself to calm down, that people sleep in their cars all the time. In fact, when he checked at the why, the other member said, oh yeah, that's Lee and John. They work out here with us. So there it was. Nothing amiss. It's funny, right? Who knows what Jim's subconscious picked up on that made him question what

Starting point is 00:07:20 Lee and John were doing, but he talked himself out of it. Most of us would, I suspect. There's nothing illegal about sleeping in your car. A cop probably would have just made the move. That morning, John told Lee that he wanted 10 bodies. They had already staked out about 15 places to target, stores, parking lots, gas stations, post offices. At 7.41 a.m., 39-year-old landscaper James Sonny Buchanan was shot and killed while mowing the grass at a car dealership. One of Sunny Buchanan's co-workers, Al Briggs, found Sunny on the ground next to his lawnmower surrounded by witnesses.

Starting point is 00:07:52 He knelt down next to his friend and spoke to him as Sonny struggled to breathe. Just lie down, Sunny. Help is on the way. Al held his hand, placed his hand on his shoulder, and comforted him as his friend took his last breath. To this day, Al shakes, recalling watching Sunny die. Jeez, Louise. 30 minutes later, at 8.12, taxi driver Prem Kumar Wallachar was shot and killed outside of a mobile gas station, five miles away and 15 minutes by car from the first killing. Dr. Caroline Namrow was sitting in her car at the pump next to Prem Kumar,

Starting point is 00:08:25 and she made eye contact with him and smiled. The kind of awkward eye contact where you didn't mean to do it, but you grin anyway. She looked down to grab her credit card and heard a loud bang. When she looked up again, Prem Kumar was on the ground. Dr. Namro is an emergency pediatrician. As terrified as she was, she did her best to stabilize Prem Kumar, but it was too late. She could tell the exact time when he started agonal breathing, the desperate breaths right before someone died.

Starting point is 00:08:50 eyes. He was gone. Prem Kumar immigrated to the U.S. from India when he was 18 so he could get an education and send money back home. As the oldest son, he helped his younger siblings save money to immigrate themselves. Finally, he was getting ready to retire after a lifetime of working. He was working earlier than usual that morning because the weather was supposed to be nice that day and he wanted to enjoy it. He left behind his wife and children, a son and a daughter. Another 20 minutes later, Lee shot and killed 34-year-old. Sarah Ramos as she sat at a bus stop bench reading a book. This was two miles from the mobile

Starting point is 00:09:24 where Prem Kumar was shot. Lee said that they decided to wait, watch the bus stop, and shoot the first person who sat down there. Sarah Ramos was an El Salvadorian immigrant who worked as a babysitter and housekeeper. She was an active member of her church and loved by her friends, her husband, and her seven-year-old son. The bullet was fired through her head. Witnesses were so confused that they initially reported as a suicide to 911, but at the scene the copy, couldn't find a gun. They realized pretty quickly that it was a homicide. As they canvass for witnesses, one told them that they saw an Azuzu white box truck speeding away around the same time they heard the gunshot. That white truck would haunt the case until the very end. By this point, the police

Starting point is 00:10:07 started to realize that something was happening in Maryland. The media noticed it as well and started circling. The media held on to the white truck lead immediately. There was no wait and see. There was no further canvassing, they released the white truck without thinking twice. As Lee Malvo would later say, this played right into their hands. The message, he said, was, these people are idiots. They cannot protect you. Muhammad told him, I want to make these people feel helpless. I can't help but wonder if that message was specifically from Mildred Muhammad. You can't run. You can't hide. The people protecting you are incompetent. I gotcha. Just like he said at the courthouse that day, a year ago. At 9.58, 25-year-old Lori Ann Lewis Rivera was shot while she vacuumed her minivan at a

Starting point is 00:10:57 shell station 15 minutes away from where Sarah was killed. Lori's husband, Nelson, said that he met Lori at church, and she had a really nice heart. The couple had one daughter named Jocelyn. Nelson remembers that the morning she died, Lori was still asleep when he left for work. He kissed her on the cheek before he slipped out of the room. You never think that's going to be the last time you do that, but for him it was. Lee and Muhammad were parked waiting for the first person to use the gas station vacuum.

Starting point is 00:11:28 She was shot in the back, and an ICU nurse heard her calling for help. She found Lori on the ground, bleeding from the mouth. The nurse thought that maybe she was having a seizure or something, or maybe something had blown up in the vacuum and started doing chest compressions. The ambulance seemed to take care. too long, and so when a nearby pregnant woman asked how she could help, the nurse asked if she

Starting point is 00:11:51 could find help, and this heavily pregnant woman ran down the street looking. Like Mr. Rogers once said, in stories like this, I think it's important to look for the helpers, because it reminds you that for all the darkness out there, there's still good, too. But heartbreakingly, despite everybody's best efforts, Lurie was pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. When Nelson Rivera was brought to the scene in a daze, he asked where his daughter was. Had she seen her mother die? The detectives kind of looked at each other confused and said, there was no baby in the car. Luckily, Lori had dropped Jocelyn at daycare a few minutes before she stopped to vacuum out the car. After Lori, Malvo and Mohamed took a break. They drove 40 minutes to D.C. and grabbed some food at a

Starting point is 00:12:37 Jamaican restaurant. Then they waited in their car at a busy intersection to wait for a target. It was nearly 12 hours after Lori Rivera's murder when Lee aimed his gun toward Pascal Charleau, a 72-year-old who was walking down the road. He had just called his wife and let her know he was on his way home. Pascal was a lovely man. He loved gardening and helping his community. He was a retired carpenter and handyman

Starting point is 00:13:04 and would often repair his neighbor's houses for free. He and his wife had raised five children together and were finally enjoying their retirement. D.C. homicide detective Tony Patterson had been aware of what was happening in Maryland and felt like they were probably in the clear until this shooting. After talking to witnesses, though, he got a pretty crucial clue. One guy said he heard the gunshot and had seen a dark-colored Chevy Caprice driving slowly away from the scene with its lights off, despite it being quite dark outside, which is why he remembered it.

Starting point is 00:13:35 Detective Patterson thought this was a good lead and sent out a Bolo. He did a write-up and hand-delivered a copy. to the command center in Montgomery County, where the other shootings had happened. The team there kind of dismissed him. After all, now many witnesses were recalling the white truck. Or was it a van? Either way, a Chevy Caprice wasn't even close to that. The media had taken the white truck angle and ran with it, and the misinformation was spreading fast. This is a mistake a lot of investigators make, and media too. They limit the investigation by putting it in a box. The way killers are named can be a good example of this.

Starting point is 00:14:12 Like, the media name for the culprit in this case, the D.C. sniper or the Beltway sniper, not only limited the number of killers, but the geography, too. I mean, these two were actually killing people all over the country, not just around D.C. The Green River killer is another one. Gary Ridgeway killed women and dumped their bodies in several locations, especially after the media started calling him the Green River killer, he was like, oh, well, I'll just change where I'm. Switch it up. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:36 Right. The worst thing you can do is make these kinds of assumptions. They're total case killers. Yeah, it kills me that they could have had a huge break in this case on the first day, day one. But instead, you know, just, eh, nah, it's not white, so it's not a white truck. It's just, it's really unfortunate. Those investigators couldn't see past their own assumptions. The one thing the investigators knew for sure was that the bullets found that each scene had been fired from the same gun.

Starting point is 00:15:04 Meanwhile, Lee and John were jubilant. The police were scrambling around overwhelmed. This was the result they were hoping for. I will say the cops were very quick about getting ATF and FBI assistance. I mean, not only did it cross state lines, but they needed everyone they could just to stay on top of the crime scenes. The next day, Friday, October 4th, in Spotsylvania, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Carolyn Cuell was heading back to her car after a trip to Michaels when she was shot in the back. Two witnesses called 911, and Caroline was transported to the hospital in critical condition.

Starting point is 00:15:37 That morning, she and her husband had talked about the murder spree. from the day before. They'd seen it on the news and talked about how scary it was. Then Carolyn got their two kids to school and went about her day. She was at Michaels for some new decor, but now she was fighting for her life. She would survive. Police Chief Charles Moose was the public face for the investigation. As the shootings continued, he'd hold a conference every day, answering what questions he could and updating the public about this case. During active situations like this one, police are especially aware of two things. The public is listening. And so are the culprits.

Starting point is 00:16:12 After the first day, Chief Moose put all the Montgomery County schools on lockdown. Still in session, but no recess or outdoor activities. He insisted that it didn't appear that the killer or killers would go after children, but it was better to have some caution. Schools told parents that their children would be safe. Lee and John listened to the radio, switching back and forth between coverage. They wanted to make sure their message was getting across, that Americans weren't safe.

Starting point is 00:16:37 Lee knew John had a plan in his head. He had the whole thing mapped out. All Lee had to do was trust the man he now called dad. The night after Caroline Sewell was shot, Muhammad took Lee to a Barnes & Noble and told him to buy a deck of tarot cards. The shootings died down over the weekend. Chief Moose announced that school would be in session on Monday, and the school officials reassured parents that their kids' safety would be their first priority.

Starting point is 00:17:00 John Muhammad took that personally. Content warning for this next part. If you're not in the right headspace to hear about violence against a child, you can fast forward the next 30 seconds or so. He chose Benjamin Tasker Middle School in Bowie, Maryland, as their next target. He told Lee to shoot as many kids as he could as they got off the bus. Lee said that Muhammad was really specific about the school he picked, so we did a little digging on Benjamin Tasker to find out if there was anything that stuck out.

Starting point is 00:17:26 Most likely, this school was named after Benjamin Tasker Sr., who was a governor of Maryland during colonial times in the mid-1750s. If you've even breathed air next to an American history book, you probably know what's coming next. his family likely owned slaves and his son was a prominent slave trader Now he never said why he chose this school But is it possible he knew about that family history I don't know but it's a compelling motive

Starting point is 00:17:50 Yeah The school was also surrounded by a pretty thick copse of trees So it provided a lot of cover So could be that could be that The name of the school drew his attention Could be both Yeah and really I don't think it was about Like we said earlier

Starting point is 00:18:05 I think it was about Mildred 100%. But yeah I mean it could have It could have just been an extra little motivation, for sure. And if he's lying to Lee about his motives. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. As children started filing into the school, Lee, for the first time in months, was feeling doubt. No school bus appeared, and Malvo said he felt hopeful.

Starting point is 00:18:26 Maybe Muhammad would call it off. Through the walkie-talkie, he asked for instructions. Instead, Muhammad said, take what's available. Lee didn't want to kill a kid. He'd shot 16 people at this point, but never a child, and his instincts were screaming at him. But he couldn't disappoint Muhammad. So he picked somebody out. Iron Brown was a 13-year-old boy.

Starting point is 00:18:49 His bus driver had suspended him because he'd been eating a twizzler on the bus, so his aunt, Tanya, who was a nurse, had just dropped him off at school and was starting to drive away. Lee was waiting. As he caught the kid in the crosshairs, he noticed something. Iron looked like him. same build, same complexion, even around the same height. He knew this was wrong. He knew it.

Starting point is 00:19:12 But the stronger voice, Muhammad's voice, Dad, told him to squeeze the trigger. He held Irons' head in his sights for a long moment, and then he dropped his aim to the kid's lower back. When he told Muhammad later that he'd shot the kid, he asked Lee if the kid was dead. Lee said, maybe. Muhammad accepted without much reprimand. the message was the same. You aren't safe. Your kids aren't safe. Your government can't keep you safe. Luckily for Iron Brown, his aunt hadn't left yet. She lifted him into her car and rushed him to the ER. As she drove, she called 911 to let them know she was on her way, and the call is just horrific.

Starting point is 00:19:54 The whole time she's promising that he's not going to die to hold on to his womb to stem the bleeding. You can hear this poor kid groaning and his aunt just desperately honed. honking her horns screaming at other drivers to let her through. It's awful. He told her that he loved her and he appreciated her. Just in case. A kid facing death telling his auntie he loved her. The hospital prepared for the worst kind of injury. Rifle bullets tend to cause what's called a blast injury, which causes intense trauma to the organs in a cone shape. Iron spleen, pancreas, liver and stomach were all severely damaged, on top of losing, including, incredible amounts of blood. The doctors were sure Irin was going to die. Fortunately,

Starting point is 00:20:40 thanks to Tanya's quick thinking and the doctor's hard work, Irin survived. Today he owns his own business and does inspirational speaking. To the investigators, this was a terrible reminder that they were two steps behind the shooter at every stage. Chief Moose was so angry that he cried at the press conference. Someone is so mean-spirited that they shot a child. He he said, his rage just barely masked. Some of the public thought that his crying was a sign of weakness, but even more acknowledged that

Starting point is 00:21:12 it was a sign that he cared. To the public, the message was clear. No one was safe, not even the most vulnerable. To this killer, there were no rules, and all bets were off. The Feds and the ATF investigators combed the new scene and brought in a canine to search the woods that surrounded the school. His name is Beacon, and he's obviously a very good boy.

Starting point is 00:22:00 His handler, U.S. Marshal Mike Pyo, started by finding the best vantage point if someone wanted to shoot somebody in front of the school. He was looking for any shell casings left behind. Shell casings are some of the hardest things for a search dog to find because there's very little scent. Nobody really thought that Beacon would find anything, so they were just kind of going through the motions. Then one of his colleagues said, hey, pay attention to your dog. Beacon was paying really close attention to a branch on the ground and drew up. ruling. Mike told the searchers to focus on that area, and later that night, he was informed that he and Beacon hit paydirt. There was a shell casing and a note found at the scene.

Starting point is 00:22:43 Notes, campers. Notes again. Some killers can't really help but brag. And it almost always becomes their downfall. Yeah, all you're doing leaving a note is just giving us more evidence, so go for it. Yeah. The note This is so fucking dorky I can't even process I know I know The note was written

Starting point is 00:23:06 On a death tarot card On the face of the card It read Call me God On the back it said For you Mr. Police Code Call me God

Starting point is 00:23:16 Do not release to the press Each separate line Was surrounded by quotes Which I don't know Why I just find it annoying Why are you put quotes Why are you quoting? Who are you quoting, sir?

Starting point is 00:23:29 Also, can we talk about how the death tarot card is actually about, like, yeah, it's about change. So irritating. It's so clear. But see, again, this is why when you do this stuff, you give evidence because you're showing that you're not that actually invested in this, quote, unquote, little signature that you're trying to fake. Yeah. Because you don't know what you're talking about. Right. I mean, people who are into tarot never get tired of telling you that.

Starting point is 00:23:52 The death card doesn't mean death. It means change, right? Anybody knows that. Apparently not John Dipshit Muhammad. I hate this guy so bad. So bad. ATF criminal profiler, Ronald Tunkle, got quite a bit of info from the note. From the phrase, Mr. Police, he gleaned that the speaker had beef with the police.

Starting point is 00:24:11 From Call Me God and Do Not Release to the press, he assumed that the killer was an older male. The police decided to hold this information back from the press. They didn't want to egg on any more shootings. Except the press found out. Obviously, somebody in the investigation leaked to the press. for some dumbass reason. It ran on a local radio show, Good Morning America, and The Washington Post.

Starting point is 00:24:35 Why they thought it would be a good thing or an ethical thing to release this information, I'm not sure, but they went ahead and did it. Moose was pissed. At the press conference that day, when a reporter asked him about the tarot card, he was like, look, I don't know why you feel the need to ask that. I don't know why someone felt like they needed to sell their soul

Starting point is 00:24:54 to give the press that info right now. the people of Montgomery County haven't told me that they'd like the media to take up this case if they would like that to change they can let me know and I can put my people

Starting point is 00:25:04 on other work while you all meaning the press can work on this one I mean I'm paraphrasing a little but that was the gist Moose has an attitude he's honestly he's the best I love Chief Moose

Starting point is 00:25:16 his his favorite statement this whole time is it would be inappropriate for me to release more that info at this juncture that's his like that's his catchphrase this whole time to the press. And in this case, I can totally see where he's coming from.

Starting point is 00:25:31 Look, the media undoubtedly does important work. In all other cases, except crime, I am good with them releasing info to the public. But during an active investigation, especially when the case is currently ongoing and you've got unidentified people shooting random civilians, that just seems irresponsible. I think they were just focused on getting a scoop before their competitors, not public safety. In the documentary series, I-Sniper, the reporter's attitudes were like, well, of course our work is super important. We have to keep the public informed. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:26:03 That just rubs me the wrong way. Well, yeah, I mean, what did they do to protect the public exactly by announcing this note? Especially since a lot of them didn't even get the wording of it right. They reported that the note said, I am God, not call me God, which I think is a pretty significant difference. and actually points to a pretty gross level of carelessness and a lack of understanding of what criminal profilers do because, you know, you're not paraphrasing when you're, like, the wording is really important. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't show that he has a God complex. It shows that he has a God complex in this specific case, right?

Starting point is 00:26:38 Like, I am God and call me God are two different things. I think he wanted, yeah, he wanted the press and the media to call him God. He was naming himself as like a, he was like BTKing it, you know? Mm-hmm. Ice sniper, by the way, is fantastic. It features interviews with Lee Malvo, his father, his aunt, Mildred Muhammad, surviving victims, victims' families, and the police investigators. It's eight episodes, and I had to download a separate app to find it.

Starting point is 00:27:03 But if you want eight more hours of content on this case, I fully recommend it. It's really good. The press took this little note and ran. CNN, Fox, Good Morning America, MSNBC, all ran specials about the sniper on the loose. The media seemed frustrated that the feds hadn't released. any info on their profile, which, uh, yeah, of course not. It's probably not done yet. You really can't keep a good reporter down, though, so they hired their own profiles who came up with their own. Like, it was most likely a middle-aged male. All right. Right. White. Wrong.

Starting point is 00:27:39 Working alone. Gone through a nasty separation or divorce. Oh, good. Getting warmer. Significant substance abuse. wrong military background or training in firearms oh ding ding ding driving a white van or truck no loving the press attention hmm i wonder if you're contributing to the problem there miss katie kurek so like 50% accuracy from the news profiles but the thing is that most profilers will warn investigators that the profile is a tool not a magic wand you can use it as framework for your search but don't let it blind you to other possibilities. Yeah, everybody wants this stuff to be magic. It's the same with like body language analysis.

Starting point is 00:28:25 People want to think this stuff is definitive and it's just not. They're just tools in the toolbox. Like I remember years and years ago when the Maddie McCann case was going on and, you know, when everybody was really whipped up about the Maddie McCann case. And there were all these like, quote unquote, body language experts on YouTube like, oh, Kate McCann scratched your nose here. So that means that the McCanns killed their daughter. Well, guess what?

Starting point is 00:28:46 Now we know they didn't. Yeah. And maybe she just had an itch for God's sakes. And there is a place for that stuff. I mean, you know, like I watched the behavior panels videos and they're fascinating, but it's not magic. It's not definitive. Even they will tell you over and over again, you can't prove somebody's lying from this.

Starting point is 00:29:02 Right. It's just one thing to add to a lot of other things. And it is not a substitute for, you know, the gumshoe just plotting kind of more, less sexy detective work that goes on in the background. How many cases do we cover that are solved by that kind of? analysis like none right it's the boring stuff it's the paperwork absolutely it's the have you seen psych it's that box of stuff that uh detective lasseter has where he's like the answer is always in the box and that's so true the answer is always in the box yeah it's just not that sexy you can't just look

Starting point is 00:29:37 at somebody the way they're holding their shoulders and tell oh she's definitely lying yeah maybe maybe BBC Sherlock BBC Sherlock was not a documentary I hate to tell you Usually serial murderers go after a very specific type of victim, and that can tell profiles a lot about who they are. For example, serial killers very rarely murder people outside their own race. If they do, that can indicate another motive. Green River killers, an example of that. Lee would later say that he and Muhammad were just tickled pink at how wrong the media

Starting point is 00:30:09 assumptions were about them. And I mean, he was right. You can't find a blue Chevy Caprice being driven by a black man and his teenage trigger man when you're sifting through the haystack of white trucks and vans. Yep. The FBI said about creating a tip line, and they were soon flooded with thousands of collars that were convinced that their ex-husband or their friend's cousin's dog sitter was guilty.

Starting point is 00:30:29 As usual, they got a fair amount of attention seekers that admitted to being the sniper themselves. So far, they weren't having much luck getting information from the public. Back at the YMCA, Jim Ross saw John Allen Muhammad sitting in the locker room, staring off into the distance. Jim asked if he was all right. Muhammad said, no, I'm not. No, my dude, you most certainly are not.

Starting point is 00:30:53 There was no shooting on the 8th of October, but at 8.18 p.m. on the 9th. 53-year-old Dean Harold Miles was getting gas at a Sunnico when he was shot. He was a Vietnam vet who was awarded the Purple Heart for injuries that left him permanently disabled. He had no children of his own, but he was an amazing uncle to his nieces and nephews. He was a frequent sponsor of children in poverty all over the world, too. He died at the scene, and police set up a perimeter to question all the drivers in the area. Officer Steve Bailey was in charge of questioning drivers. As he approached a blue Chevy Caprice, he observed that the driver, a tall black male with short hair,

Starting point is 00:31:34 appeared to be the only occupant. He asked the driver what he was doing in the area, and he replied that he was returning home after a vacation, when the police directed him to this area. To Bailey, he seemed cool as a fridge full of cucumbers, very polite and normal. Before he let him go, the man asked Bailey, concerned screwing up his face, when are you going to catch the sky? When's it going to stop?

Starting point is 00:31:56 Fuck you, John Muhammad, you asshole. Meanwhile, Lee Melvo laid quietly in the trunk of the car listening to the muffled conversation. Finally, the car started moving again, and we can't really blame Bailey here. I mean, Muhammad was very clearly a master manipulative. later in. I'm not sure there'd be any reason to indicate anything off about his demeanor or anything like that, but it just kills me to think of how close the police have gotten multiple times. This dude was looking Muhammad in the face and didn't suspect a thing, which is just so creepy. But again, we've seen that a million times in cases like this where they're just that smooth.

Starting point is 00:32:34 Dahmer had like a body in the back of his car one time and talked his way out of it. Another two days later, at 9.30 a.m. on October 11, Kenneth Bridges was pumping gas at an Exxon in Fredericksburg when he was shot and killed. Kenneth, a 53-year-old businessman, also founded a community organization called Mata, which was focused on uplifting the economic position of African Americans. His vision, according to his obituary, was, quote, dedicated to the economic, spiritual, and social upliftment of people of African descent. It was his fervent belief that people of African descent are the only ones who can change the terrible circumstances that exist in most of our communities. All of the resources to accomplish this seemingly impossible task already exist within our community, the skills, the knowledge, the creativity, the money. Ken knew that the key ingredient that prevents people of African descent from taking control over their individual and collective destiny was and continues to be lack of knowledge of self. Ken dedicated his life to imparting this knowledge of self into each and every person of African descent within America and across the planet. He left behind a wife, Jocelyn, and five children, Asia, April, Justin, Joshua, Alana, and Alyssa.

Starting point is 00:33:55 I find it highly ironic that Muhammad claimed to be fighting for the plight of black Americans and yet targeted somebody who genuinely put his money where his mouth was, who was genuinely passionate about making the work. a better place, rather than somebody who was using the same quote-unquote vision to create nothing but death and destruction. Later, Lee would say that the reason that Kenneth Bridges and other black people were killed during this spree is that it's a cloak. If you only kill white people, then they know something. Now, remember, the original plan was to kill six white people a day for 30 days. I'm including a big old capital S speculation here, but I think that

Starting point is 00:34:33 Muhammad told Lee that it was a cloak, and it was true. It wasn't to throw the government off their motive, though. It was to cloak Muhammad's true target, Mildred. At this point, gas stations started putting tarps up to block their pumps from the street in an effort to protect their customers. People were crouching down behind their cars while they pumped gas or sitting in their cars. And I was actually living in Baltimore at the time, and it scared six kinds of shit out of me. Every time I had to leave the house. And I was teaching high school and all the kids were scared. I mean, it was just a feeling of not being able to trust the world around you that no rules thing that we said earlier. It's just this totally off balance, insecure, awful feeling, which is exactly how Muhammad

Starting point is 00:35:18 wanted everybody to feel, I guess, or how he wanted his ex-wife to feel anyway. Yeah, for sure. I was about 11 years old and living in the Southwest when this all started. And I remember being absolutely fucking terrified. Like, it just seemed so, like, close, even though it wasn't, you know what I mean? Absolutely. Well, they were killing people everywhere. Yeah. True. I was also super scared of anthrax, but that's a different story. Oh, me too. Yeah, that was one of kind. Oh, my God. Back in the Pacific Northwest, Robert Holmes was watching the news at his buddy's house. The D.C. sniper had been dominating the news, and every time he saw a new story on it, he had a horrible twisting feeling in his gut. He thought he knew who the sniper was.

Starting point is 00:35:57 was. He had been friends with John Allen Muhammad for years since they served in the military together. In fact, Lee and John had stayed with him for a few days before the spree started. John introduced Lee as a sniper, which hit Robert wrong because to him a sniper is someone with a body count. Typically, a good shot is just called a marksman. Finally, after watching news coverage on Kenneth Bridges, he knew he had to report his hunch. He called the FBI office and didn't get a call back. But that doesn't mean no one listened. Throughout all these shootings, John Allen Muhammad consistently drove around Mildred Muhammad's

Starting point is 00:36:31 neighborhood, likely keeping an eye out for her or his children. They followed her and even looked into her house. Lee knew that they were going to try to take his children once they extorted the money from the government, but I don't think he understood that she was the true target of their killings. Once, Mildred saw the car outside of her house as he passed by, she saw two men,

Starting point is 00:36:50 one in the driver's seat, a black teenager, and the other was hiding his face with a newspaper, which so so smooth john wait to avert suspicion mildred knew it was only a matter of time before john found her and the children he was a good tracker she said that she was on high alert since the moment she saw him at the courthouse she knew he would come for her and she knew it would be a headshot on october 14th linda franklin was walking to her car in the covered parking lot of home depot in falls church virginia when she was shot and killed Linda worked as an FBI intelligence analyst.

Starting point is 00:37:28 There's no proof that Malvo and Muhammad had any idea who she was. Her husband was with her when she was shot, and Lee said that the pain in his eyes was the worst kind of pain I've seen in my life. Afterwards, he said he felt like the worst piece of scum on the planet. And it is insane to me that it took him this long to recognize the pain he was causing. So far, no one who had been shot was with someone they knew. He'd been causing those ripples of grief and pain this whole time, and it never occurred. to him. Wow. That's just... Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. And that's very, like a very teenager thing, right? Like, it never

Starting point is 00:38:06 occurred to him that people would be in pain from what he did. Well, I think, you know, when you're, I mean, we could basically call, I mean, Muhammad is using the same kind of tactics that you use to torture people. He was using the same kind of tactics that cult leaders use to brainwash. I mean, literal brainwashing technique. So I think maybe he was just so caught up in it that, you know, reality seemed pretty remote. And then when something that intense slaps you in the face, then yeah, you know, maybe that is the first time. But that is really scary. Yeah. That it never occurred to him. Well, of course your devastating lives. Right. Of course. Right out loud. Yeah. This was like a, yeah, this was a two-man cult or a one-man cult if you don't count the cult leader as a member.

Starting point is 00:38:55 Linda was a wonderfully kind person. Her friends and co-workers adored her and said she didn't have a mean bone in her body, and she'd give a stranger the shirt off her back. Her husband, William, and their two adult children were devastated by their loss. As the police were questioning witnesses, a man came forward who said he saw the shooter of the gun. This would be a huge break in the case. The witness's name was Matthew Slim Dowdy. He said that he saw a Middle Eastern man with an AK-47 shoot Linda and escape in a

Starting point is 00:39:25 cream-colored van with a broken-tail light. What the hell? Right. That would be great, except we know it's bullshit. Why do people do this? Of course, the cops didn't know that it was bullshit at first, but eventually, while reviewing the CCTV footage, they saw that Dowdy was inside the store at the time of the shooting and couldn't have possibly seen what he said he saw. He was charged with making a false statement and sentenced to six months in prison.

Starting point is 00:39:51 At trial, he said that he was reporting on behalf of his friend, who said he saw the shooter in the parking lot across the street. Again, this couldn't be true based on his description. Yeah, and Dowdy had a long history of run-ins with the cops. Three years later, he was charged with the rape and murder of a woman named Judy Coat, and he was sentenced to life plus 30 years in prison, so clearly a real champ. Scumbag. Muhammad and Malvo waited another five days before attempting any further attacks. At Ponderos' Steakhouse on October 19th in Ashland, Virginia, Jeffrey and Stephanie Hopper had stopped for dinner on a trip home from a family visit. They were walking companionably and

Starting point is 00:40:29 arguing about who loved each other more. You know, I love you more. No, I love you more. Aw. Lee Malvo had them both in his sights. He bounced between them, but eventually settled on Jeffrey and made the shot. He shot Jeffrey in the stomach. As Jeff lay on the ground bleeding, Stephanie asked somebody nearby to call 911 while she attended to stop the blood flow. When police arrived, she was using a cloth to keep pressure on his wound with his head and her lap. The police officer asked to see the wound and then told her to place the cloth back and apply pressure. That it wasn't rocket science. The hoppers laughed.

Starting point is 00:41:04 Jeff said, that's funny. My wife is a rocket scientist. I just find it, like, wonderful that in this moment of pain and fear he found a way to laugh and to brag about his genius wife. It's a very wife guy. Jeffrey would survive his injuries. And Lee said later that he was still having severe doubts about his crimes. I don't think that it was an accident that Muhammad chose a restaurant where people would be most likely going with their spouses and families. I think this was a test.

Starting point is 00:41:31 Malvo said that he knew he couldn't go back without having shot someone, but that his shot to Jeff Hopper's stomach was a compromise. He was trying to make it as non-lethal as possible. Oh, for God's sake. Do we believe him? I don't know, and I'm not sure it matters. I don't care. Yeah. I don't care.

Starting point is 00:41:52 Jeff Hopper lost seven. 25% of his stomach tissue, as well as sustaining severe shrapnel injuries to his liver. He could have died if his wife hadn't been as savvy as he was. He could have died if the paramedics had been a little slower. He could have died if he lost just a little more blood. I don't actually think all those intentions matter when it comes to the end result, but it certainly gives us a peek into his mindset. He was unhappy. I don't know how you could convince yourself that a gut shot wouldn't be devastating. I mean, that's, come on. Like, I don't buy that. I'm sorry. Yeah. He was, he was just so, like, his whole, his whole thing is I needed to please Muhammad, but it's like, who cares?

Starting point is 00:42:27 Yeah. Take that gun and shoot him. That's what she doing in that situation. Right. But that's what brainwashing is, I guess. I mean, you just. Yeah. Ugh. sucks. Yes. At the scene, police found a four-page letter from the sniper demanding $10 million. And it was wild, y'all. In it, they claimed to have called the sniper tip line at least $6.000. times. Named the people they talked to and said their calls were brushed off. The letter reads in part, for you, Mr. Police, call me God, do not release to the press. We have tried to contact you to start negotiation, but your failure to respond has cost you five lives. If stopping the killing is more important than catching us now, then you will accept our demand, which is non-negotiable. You'll place $10 million in Bank of America account, and then it includes the bank account info from a stolen credit card, which could be linked back to them, but I don't know, I'm just an idiot. We will have an unlimited withdrawal at any ATM worldwide, which is not possible. You will activate the bank

Starting point is 00:43:25 account, credit card, and PIN number. We will contact you at 6 a.m. on Monday morning. You will have until 9 a.m. Monday morning to complete transaction. Try to catch us withdrawing. At least you will have less body bags. If trying to catch us now, more important than prepare you body bags, purposeful misspellings, by the way, if you give you our word, if we give you our word that this is what takes place. Ward is Bond. P.S., your children are not safe anywhere at any time. On the 21st, police in Richmond, Virginia, arrested two men in a white van at a gas station. It turned out they were just two guys, but were undocumented immigrants and were subsequently deported. God, that's got to suck, right? You didn't do the thing. They detained you for,

Starting point is 00:44:10 but got caught doing the other less serious thing. Ugh, that absolutely sucks. Two days later, Conrad Johnson was shot and killed at 5.56 a.m. in Aspen Hill, Maryland. He was preparing for his shift as a bus driver. At this point, police were able to confirm that the car they were looking for was actually the blue Chevy Caprice. That day, Chief Moose released info regarding the four-page letter found at the stakehouse shooting. At 3.15 a.m. on the 24th, police were able to identify the caprice parked at a rest stop in Myersville, Maryland. Police boxed them in. When they made contact, they were, they noticed two occupants in the vehicle, one middle-aged man and one teenage boy. The man looked calm and resigned. The kid looked terrified and was sweating buckets despite the cold air. Finally, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo's reign of terror was over. Everyone in the area could breathe a sigh of relief. Lee has said that John Muhammad sexually abused him the entire time he knew him.

Starting point is 00:45:13 There is, of course, no evidence of this, but I sure as hell wouldn't put it past the guy. Lee didn't come out about it until about 10 years after his arrest, and at this point he really has nothing to gain from it. It also fits with Muhammad's profile as manipulative and controlling and a cult leader. Lee said that sex would be a reward and a tool for Muhammad to get what he wanted. The immigration officer that took Lee in for deportation said that he had a terrible feeling about their relationship. When he brought Lee in, he caught them coming out of the group shower together, strangely close. The two were tried separately in the fall of 2003 in Maryland and Virginia.

Starting point is 00:45:55 Both were found guilty. Leboid Melvo was sentenced to six consecutive life sentences in prison without parole in exchange for his testimony against Muhammad. John Ellen Muhammad was sentenced to death. John represented himself during the Virginia trials because, of course he did, and of course he failed miserably. What I find so infuriating about this case is that John and Lee claimed to want to be making the world a better place. They pretended to care about uplifting the communities they lived in. It was their victims, though, that exemplified the best of us. They were great parents, friends, children, co-workers, upstanding citizens, people who lived here their whole lives, people who were immigrants, people who put a mark on this world for being good, lovely human beings. They

Starting point is 00:46:43 took these people's lives, their peace out of the selfish need to make the world look as dark as their own souls. Lee is exactly where he should be, serving life in prison. He seems to have remorse for what he's done, but that doesn't take away the destruction. On November 9, 2009, John Allen Muhammad was executed by lethal injection, with members of the press and the families of his victims watching. His kids wanted to speak to him before his death, and he received He hasn't spoken a word to them since he lost custody. Mildred Muhammad is still a domestic violence advocate. She's an author and inspirational speaker.

Starting point is 00:47:26 John Ellen Muhammad once told Lee, All my defects are a reflection of the culture. I am what they made me. And doesn't that perfectly describe who he is? Someone that can find the splinter in somebody else's eye while missing the branch in his. So that was a wild one. Right, campers?

Starting point is 00:47:47 You know, we'll have another one for you next week. But for now, lock your doors, light your lights, and stay safe until we get together again around the True Crime Campfire. And this week, we want to send a special happy birthday shout out to our super fan Trish. Trish, your husband, Mike, emailed us and asked us to do this for you. So he seems like a keeper. Yeah, keeper. He says he loves you very much. Aw.

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True Crime Campfire - The Magician and the Fool: The Story of the DC Snipers, Pt 2

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