True Crime Campfire - When Nerds Attack: Influencer - The Murder of Susan Bailey, Pt 2

Episode Date: July 9, 2021

So campers, when we left you at the end of part 1, college-bound Jennifer Bailey, her boyfriend, high school senior, reincarnated executioner and wannabe vampire Paul Henson, Jr., and best friend Merrilee, were hatching a plot to murder their parents. In their minds, this was the only way for them to stay together in this life and the next—and y’know, avoid homework and chores. Hardworking single mom Susan Bailey had no idea what they were planning as she worked double shifts to pay for Jennifer’s school. Join us now for part 2 of this bizarre true story.Sources:Let's Kill Mom by Donna FielderInvestigation Discovery special, "Let's Kill Mom'https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/affidavits_4_teens_planned_to_kill_n_texas_mom/1838185/https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/crimefeed/crime-history/lets-kill-mom-behind-the-disturbing-susan-bailey-murderFollow us, campers!Patreon (join to get all episodes ad-free, at least a day early, an extra episode a month, and a free sticker!): https://patreon.com/TrueCrimeCampfireFacebook: True Crime CampfireInstagram: https://gramha.net/profile/truecrimecampfire/19093397079Twitter: @TCCampfire https://twitter.com/TCCampfireEmail: [e-mail]: https://shop.spreadshirt.com/true-crime-campfire/Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-campfire--4251960/support.

Hello, campers, grab your marshmallows and gather around the true crime campfire. We're your camp counselors. I'm Katie. And I'm Whitney. And we're here to tell you a true story that is way stranger than fiction. We're roasting murderers and marshmallows around the true crime campfire. So, campers, when we left you at the end of part one, college-bound Jennifer Bailey, her boyfriend, high school senior, reincarnated executioner and wannabe vampire Paul Henson Jr. and best friend merrily were hatching a plot to murder their parents. In their minds, this was the only way for them to stay together in this life and the next,

and, you know, avoid homework and chores, stuff like that. Hardworking single mom Susan Bailey had no idea what they were planning as she worked double shifts to pay for Jennifer's school. Join us now for part two of this bizarre true story. It's not entirely clear at what point they pulled Jennifer's 13-year-old brother David into the plan, but they did. And based on what we know about him so far, I suspect none of y'all are going to be surprised to hear that he jumped right on board. Mr. Helpful. He really looked up to Paul for some ungodly reason, and of course Jennifer had essentially been his second mom for most of his life.

so the four of them put their heads together and came up with a whole succession of possible murder plots. They thought about crushing up some pills in Susan's favorite chocolate pudding. They thought about putting an exposed electrical wire in the bathtub and pushing her in. David had a bat club thing that his dad had made for him and they talked about bludgeoning Susan, knocking her out and pushing her into the bathtub with a toaster. As for Paul's dad, Paul Henson's senior, Paul decided he'd shoot him with his own gun, then kill his stepmom, too. Marilee's plan was to wait till her mom fell asleep, then stab her to death with a kitchen

knife. Afterward, the plan was to run away to Canada and, I don't know, money, power, swimming pools, movie stars, living large as street magicians, I don't think they thought too much, past the runaway part, as kids never do in these cases. Three days after she reported her daughter as a runaway, Mary Lee's poor mom, Amy, was putting up missing persons flyers when she spotted Marilee coming out of a Walmart, just strolling out of Walmart,

just tra-l-la, like nothing was wrong. Her mom been panicking after Mom Amy had spent the past few days wondering if her kid was lying dead in somebody's basement somewhere. So obviously, Amy grabbed her by the arm and marched her to the car and drove her home like anybody would.

Mary Lee got so hysterical and angry that Amy ended up having to call the police to help calm her down. When the officer sat her down and asked her why she was, so upset, Marily said, because there's nothing anyone could do once things get started. Huh? The officer pressed her to explain, and Marily said, there's nothing anyone could do.

If things start, they're going to happen. Okay, that's not an explanation, baby girl. What are you talking about? After some back and forth, the officer finally got her to tell him that she was upset because her baby, Paul Henson Jr., had broken up with her. Uh-huh. Anyway, for the moment, that was all she was willing to say, and once they had her calm down, they sent her home with her mom. The next day, figuring little mother-anxty daughter time was probably in order, Amy took the day off work and let Marley stay home from school. After she called the school to let him know Marily would be absent, Amy got back into bed for a quick nap. She hadn't

been asleep long when she woke up to something bumping into her bed, and she looked up to see her 14-year-old daughter who she carried in her womb for nine months and had nurtured and raised for 14 years standing over her raising a butcher knife above her head just yeah so bless her heart amy managed to scramble out the other side of the bed and call 911 I can't even imagine like no emotional turmoil of that like in addition to the terror it's like your child is trying to kill you on the 911 recording you can hear merrily screaming give me your cell phone in the car keys. I have to go with them. We were all supposed to go and you ruined it. Lord have mercy. And somehow, thank God, Amy managed to get the knife away from her and pretty soon the cops

showed up and took Marilee to Juvie where she cried herself to sleep. It didn't take long for the authorities to make the connection between Marilee and runaway Paul Henson, who had apparently stolen his dad's gun when he left. It would later turn out that he'd been planning to kill his dad and stepmom that day. He got the gun and sat in the living room waiting for them to come home. When they didn't come home on time, he scrapped the plan and just ran over to Jennifer's house.

Woossey. I don't think he was very serious about it to start with. No. Once they realized that this gangly runaway gun thief was the same Paul Henson that Marilly had mentioned in her original police interview, they went back and talked to her again. Marley,

who was apparently only capable of communicating in riddles, said If Paul has a gun, then the plan is in motion. Uh, what now? So, of course, the officers requested more information, please and thank you, but Marily, Sphinx-like, would only say, the plan is in motion for them to get a car and go to Canada. When they prodded her, she said that the them was Paul and Jennifer. Now, the sheriff's department was investigating Paul's disappearance since his dad had reported him as a runaway.

So after they spoke to Merrily at Juvenile Hall, a deputy. went out to Jennifer Bailey's house to see if he could find Paul there. Susan answered the door. She was home. She told him, no one besides her and her two kids were home. She did tell him that she worked nights a lot, but she didn't think Paul was there. The deputy said, okay, but he asked if he could talk to Jennifer before he left. Now, we already know from part one, that unbeknownst to Susan, both Merrily and Paul, had been basically living there. Right. And when Susan was home, Jennifer would stash him in the closet or under the bed, like creepy little gremlins or something.

So he wanted to talk to Jennifer before he left. So Jennifer came down the stairs looking like she was working real, real hard to look expressionless. You know how kids look when they're just blatantly lying? Like, I think they're being real smooth. Like, yeah, you're clearly full of shit. She said she hadn't seen Paul. Her mom had told her to stop seeing him.

So, you know, obviously she'd obeyed because we must always obey our moms. The deputy could tell immediately that she'd. she was lying through her teeth. And because of the missing gun, he had probable cause to search the house. And Susan said, sure, you know, go ahead and look, but you're not going to find Paul Henson here. And they didn't. But only because he'd seen the squad cars come in and managed to slip out of the house without Susan or the cop seeing him. The officers didn't find the gun either, but they did find packed suitcases in Jennifer's closet, one of which was full of Paul Henson's clothes and his wallet. It was obvious that they were planning on running off together. Susan was furious at being

lied to, and she threatened again to send Jennifer to Minnesota. They bickered back and forth as the officers kept searching the house. The cops found a 16-inch kitchen knife under some couch cushions. Jennifer said she had no idea how that got there. There's body cam footage of the search, and you can hear Susan getting more and more upset and freaked out as all this stuff comes out. Yeah, it's so goosebumps-inducing. At one point you can hear Susan remember a bowl of chocolate pudding that Jennifer had made her a few days earlier. She said it tasted gross and she only ate one bite of it and threw the rest out. And Jennifer like hurriedly jumped in before the cops could really say anything about this at oh yeah, yeah, you know, the milk I used to make that

smelled funny. Right. Um, why did you cook with it then? Mm-hmm. God, this is so creepy. It's like you can hear Susan slowly sensing that she might be in danger. Like, why else would she mention the pudding? The cops asked Jennifer about Paul Henson Sr.'s gun. She said she didn't know anything about a gun, but it was really obvious she was lying. After the police left, Paul's dad came over to get his son's stuff. He thought, maybe the kid will come home when he realizes he doesn't have any clean clothes now. Right. Like, excuse me, have you met the teenage boy?

We're lucky if they spray themselves down with Axe body spray once a week or so. Axe body spray, the only substance on earth powerful enough to counteract a funk of a teenage boy. Basically, the olfactory equivalent of a foghorn. When Paul Sr. got there, he and Susan searched the house again and found a magazine for the missing gun, some ammo, and yet another knife stashed under Jennifer's mattress. Yikes. A couple days later, Susan told some of her co-workers that she'd be taking a day off soon to enroll her daughter at the Art Institute of Dallas. She was looking forward to it. Yeah, that hurts my heart.

You know, after all this, all this, she was still excited to go and sign her daughter up for art school. She's, oh, poor Susan. You should love these kids for all the trouble. She loved them. That little detail hit me where it hurts in this case. It's sad. Oh, it just kills me. I know.

So sad. Meanwhile, Jennifer Paul and David saw the writing on the wall. Paul's dad was on the war path. Police were involved now. They'd already locked merrily up in Juvie. If the three remaining amigos wanted to escape to Canada, they were going to have to act fast. So they all three stayed home from school that day. And while Susan was talking excitedly to her co-workers about taking Jennifer up to Dallas and enrolling her in school, the teenage trio set a whole series of traps for her. Paul prepped a wire for the bathtub. Jennifer laid the baseball bat on her bed for easy access. The knives came out too. David was giddy. He told Jennifer, this was just like the movies. Oh my God.

And once they had everything ready, they shut off the lights and waited for Susan to come home from work. Three nights later, a patrolman in Yankton, South Dakota, noticed a parked car near the pumps at a closed gas station and headed over to check it out. He flipped on his lights and saw a young man standing near the front of the car. Inside were a young woman, a younger kid, and a dog. There was a curfew in Yankton, 11.30 p.m., and it was hours past that now.

And the license plate on the car wasn't local. It was Texas. For a patrol officer, all that adds up to suspicion, must investigate. When the guy standing beside the car noticed the cop car, he hopped back into the car and started driving away. But he didn't go far. Guess Paul and Company didn't see. feel up to a high-speed chase. Yeah.

So the cop and officer Kolda immediately saw that these were three teenagers and they weren't dressed for a South Dakota fall. His spidey senses started tingling. The driver told him his name was Paul and handed him a learner's permit instead of a driver's license. Kolda noticed that the guy's hair looked odd, like it had been hacked off with a pair of gardening shears or something, like bad, bad haircut. cold as bad feeling ratcheted up a notch

he put Paul in the squad car and radioed for backup and when they arrived the officers separated all three kids and took the poor doggo ginger to a nearby shelter poor little sweet baby the kids seem tired but nervous edgy they didn't seem to want to make eye contact and the youngest one David was shaking from head to toe and I've seen this body cam footage he is literally

shaking from head to toe like hard shaking Jennifer told them they were driving to visit their grandparents in Minnesota. Their mom had sent them, she said, because of money issues. Kolda called in Paul's learner's permit, and there it was, Paul Henson Jr. had been reported as a runaway, with a stolen gun. When he ran the car's plates, it came up as registered to Susan Bailey. That was their mom, Jennifer said. After some prodding, she admitted that they'd been trying to steal gas.

She reiterated her story about her mom sending them. north, but it seemed like bullshit to Officer Kolda. What kind of mom sends her kids with one of their boyfriends who doesn't even have a driver's license without luggage or gas money? The kind of mom that would give Joan Crawford a run for her money? Yeah, exactly. Mommy dearest. Kolda had a feeling these kids had run away from home and probably stolen the mom's car.

He started to press Jennifer about whether Susan knew they were gone. Finally, she said she'd actually been trying to call her mom but couldn't reach her. that she hadn't been able to get hold of her for two days and that her mom had a stalker ex-boyfriend and Jennifer was worried he might have heard her now I know this will shock you campers but no such ex-boyfriend existed this woman did not have time for a stalker Jennifer's story just kept getting more and more improbable

okay okay I snuck out to visit my grandma why'd I take my brother well because we're very close how is my boyfriend involved well um you see we just saw him walking by the side of the road and invited him to come with us oh what the hell and as she talked the bad feeling that had gripped hold of cold his gut the moment he saw them bloomed bigger and bigger suddenly a thought struck him the way these kids are acting i think their mom is dead it gave him a chill he took the kids to the yankton station where he could hold them for the time being and he called into the Roanoke, Texas Police Department about the three runaways. Sergeant George Wise picked up the phone and immediately realized he knew these kids. He was one of the officers who'd searched the Bailey House for Paul earlier on the week,

and by the time he got off the phone with Officer Kolda, he felt pretty sure Susan Bailey was dead. It was time to go over to the house and check. And as soon as they stepped inside, they knew they were right. The smell was unreal, and it got stronger and stronger as they climbed up the stage. Then in the upstairs hallway they came upon the body of a woman. Face down, her hair and shirt soaked with blood. It was, of course, Susan Bailey. Back at the police station in South Dakota, Jennifer Bailey filled Officer Kolda in on all her mother's shortcomings. She was stingy. She

kept the house too cold in the winter to save money on heat. And as Jennifer listed all the things she didn't like about her mom, the Texas police set about searching their crime scene. They found the saw-like bathtub trap Paul had prepared with an exposed wire to electrocute Susan. They found clumps of cut hair on a towel in the bathroom, Paul's half-assed attempt at disguising his appearance before they fled to Canada. They found a bloody fingerprint on the wall that would later match Paul Henson's. They found an awful-smelling, moldy bowl of something that turned out to be the poisoned pudding Jennifer had made earlier in the week. Later, a lab would find a huge dose of acetaminopin in it. The kids didn't even bother doing the dishes.

to clean that up. In the kids' rooms, they found books on Wicca and the Demonic Bible, a book released in 2007 by the author Majus Sessuge Tsirk, which for the eagle-eared listeners is Jesus Christ spelled backwards. Oh my God, nerd alert! Nerd alert! Yeah, the description of that thing is just the worst. Quote, the demonic Bible, previously on the internet, now in print for the first time. This is the fourth revised edition of the demonic Bible by Magist Sirk Sujez,

Antichrist, Servant, and Disciple of the Dark Lord, revealed to him by the Spirit Azael, his unholy guardian demon. This book contains rituals for crossing the gates of hell and becoming one with the forces of darkness. It also contains rituals for the invocation of hundreds of demons and dark gods. This may possibly be the most evil book written. You know, I've read the notebook. I don't think that's true.

Oh, snap. But I really think we need to make bullying acceptable again. Just make sure it's like these people we're bullying. Now, of course, author Donna Fielder does a lot of hand-wringing in this book about this little screed. Now, it's clearly just a book that teenagers use to scare their parents. Absolutely, but it is available on Amazon for $150 if you have some extra cash laying around that you were just going to plush down the toilet. And even if you're not going to buy it, go read the reviews because they are delightful. Lord have mercy.

So they also found a bottle of 409 cleaner, which had been used to clean the murder weapons. Later, they found security footage from Walmart showing 13-year-old. David buying it. Creepy. So what had these three done to Susan Bailey? The detectives could hardly believe what they were seeing. So little content warning on this because it's pretty upsetting. So maybe skip forward, I don't know, 30 seconds or so, probably be enough.

This is so awful. So she'd been stabbed two dozen times, several times in the back of the head, which is just gruesome. I can't even imagine stabbing someone in the head. Her throat had been cut so viciously that it severed her spinal cord, and there was evidence of more than one killer. For one thing, some of the stab wounds were quite a bit deeper and more brutal than others. Some of the cuts showed hesitation, and some had clearly been inflicted after death because they hadn't bled. A dead heart doesn't pump blood. After seeing Susan's body, one of the investigators said that the only possible motive behind such an awful murder was evil.

Just pure evil. The Texas detectives joined by Texas Ranger Brian Murphrey because this was the first murder that had ever happened in Roanoke, and they wanted to get this one right. They all traveled to South Dakota and sat down with Jennifer Bailey. Once she realized she was caught and the detectives weren't going to buy any of your bullshit, Jennifer was matter of fact about the murder. She said she'd killed her mom because, quote, we just didn't see eye to eye. Holy shit. Talking to her chilled the detectives to the bone. they said initially she seemed like she was trying to put on a little girl act

but once she realized that they were onto her her whole demeanor changed suddenly it was like they were talking to a hardened criminal someone who'd been in the system for decades it didn't fit at all with the pretty 17 year old girl in front of them at 17 by the way Jennifer qualified as an adult this meant the death penalty was on the table for her which holy shit yikes oh my god that's 17 that's so insane. They couldn't talk to Paul or David yet because they were minors.

They needed to question them by the book, make sure they had the opportunity to have guardians or representatives present. They did get a warrant to search the car, though, and found blood evidence and Susan's credit card. Despite the plan to flee to Canada, the CSIs didn't find any passports. Guess it didn't

occur to this trio of masterminds that Canada is like whole other country and stuff. Dorks. Doe. At this point, Officer Kolda overheard Paul on the jailhouse phone with his dad trying to pin the whole murder on David. Jennifer and David's dad, Richard, told the cops that he'd come pick up the car in the next week or so.

He said he didn't want the dog, Ginger. Oh, God, because he really wanted us to have to question who the worst person in this story was, right? I'm just choosing to believe that Sweet Baby Ginger was adopted and lived a long, happy life in South Dakota. I think that's almost certain. Yes. So a few days later, the three stooges were driven back to Texas, Jennifer in one transport, and the two boys in the other. And during one stop for gas, Paul and David were left alone for a few minutes.

And because they were in a police vehicle, their conversation was recorded. At one point, David giggled and said, I helped her pee, referring to when his murdered mother's body released her bladder as she died. Oh, my God. And then he said, we should have stuck her in a big wooden crate and mailed her to a zoo. They'd be like, that's an ape? Charming.

What an absolute little turdlet. Mm-hmm. And when I got to Texas and asked David if he understood what he was being charged with, he grinned creepily and said, For the capital murder of my mother. Yeah. Over at the adult facility, the officers were shocked by Jennifer's Blazay attitude. These kids are pieces of work, ain't they?

Uh-huh. Marley, who was still in Juvie for the attack against her mom, wrote Paul a letter. She was confused, you see, because they were all supposed to leave on the day she got arrested. Marley didn't understand why the plan hadn't gone off. She wrote, y'all didn't stick to the plan, and now y'all are in big trouble. I wish you look. And she signed the letter Doom Kitten, because there wasn't enough early 2000s in this story already, I guess, right? Yeah, I feel like Doom Kitten is absolutely an emo band name.

And I love that she's like taunting him As if she wouldn't have been in the same boat As though I know, she's just mad because she got left out Because her mom caught her coming out of Walmart You had been right there with him, Marilee. You tried to kill your mother, you horrible little turd. Good God.

So now, unbeknownst to her ex-lovers, Marily was cooperating with the police. She was a little miffed, see, that the other three hadn't waited for her invited her on the road trip to nowhere, whatever. Broke her out of Juvie, I guess. So now she outlined, the whole thing for investigators.

She, Jennifer, and Paul had had a pact. They would all commit murder together, and they would go down together if need be. They figured that, but it was nice to have it confirmed. And when Texas Ranger Murphy told Jennifer that Marily had talked, quote, the fucking evil came out in her face. Ooh, Ms. Jennifer did not like being capital B betrayed. Murphy had thought all along that Jennifer was the ringleader

of this little murder syndicate, and Merely seemed to corroborate that. And we agree, for the most part, that Jennifer was probably the driving force. But, I mean, it's not like they weren't all there. They're all culpable. And all three of them pled guilty. After his sentencing, 60 years with a chance of parole in 2038, Ranger Murphy and his partner visited Paul Henson in prison. They wanted to get his version of what happened,

now that his case had been decided and he had nothing more to lose by telling the whole truth. When he first started asking questions, Paul started up with the Talus bullshit. He rolled his own. eyes back in his head, started chanting nonsense, the whole Oscar-worthy performance. And Murphrey was just unimpressed. He was like, don't you start that shit with me. It's not real, and I know it. And then he dropped a casual little bomb on our boy. He said, did you know Jennifer blamed it all on you? And for about 15 seconds, it was just crickets. That had stopped Tallis's little act right in its tracks. And from then on, Paul dropped the whole thing and started acting

normally, as normally as he ever did anyway. He mostly told him what they already knew. He and Jennifer had each stabbed Susan, Paul in the back, Jennifer in the front. But he added a god-awful little detail. Jennifer had made David stab Susan after she was dead, just so all three would have blood on their hands. Now, this matched the medical examiner's finding that some of Susan's wounds were superficial and hesitant and inflicted after death. But the most disturbing detail was this. Paul said that when he first started attacking her, Susan had looked up at Jennifer, who was wearing a bandana over the lower half of her face and begged her to dial 911. Jennifer just looked at her, cold as a glacier, and said, no.

That's awful. Paul said the whole thing had been Jennifer's idea right from the start. She wanted her mom dead. She thought Paul's dad was another obstacle so he should die too, and since Marilee's mom was such a controlling bitch, they should go for the trifecta and kill her too. Make a clean break. Just these are kids. Jesus, Murphy Brown. Mm-hmm.

Woof. Jennifer took a plea deal to get the death penalty off the table. The deal was she'd admit to her part in the crime and she had to tell the truth or the plea would be null and void. But then, when it was time for her to spill, it didn't exactly go according to plan. Jennifer told the court that her younger brother David hadn't played any part at all in the murder.

She said she tried to call 911 to save her mom, but Paul stopped her. Everything she said minimized her own role in the murder and put the guilt on Paul. The prosecution couldn't believe what they were hearing, and they shut it down. They said, Judge, she's not telling the truth here. And the judge told her, look, you need to think hard about what you're doing here. If you go back on the terms of the deal and lie, then the deal is off. you can take your chances with a jury and capital punishment goes back on the table

which I don't think should like ever be the case especially for a 17 year old kid but for God's sakes that's what they said and Jennifer started sobbing and screaming and had to be taken out of the courtroom to calm down and you could hear her all the way down the hall so they gave her some time to think and a little later when she got back up on the stand

she told a different story the prosecutors felt like she was still minimizing her own involvement but it was close enough to the truth to hold the deal in place. She said that when Susan got home from work the night of the murder, she and David were waiting downstairs. Susan started lecturing them about the $1,700 cell phone bill they'd run up. And when Susan had finished telling them off, she headed upstairs. And that's when Jennifer said she heard her mother scream. She rushed upstairs to see what was happening and saw Paul with his knife against Susan's neck against the wall. Susan told Jennifer to call

911. Jennifer said she said no, but then ran to the phone anyway. And Paul said, no, don't call 911. And then slit her mother's throat in front of her. Despite evidence that multiple people had cleaned blood off themselves in the upstairs and downstairs bathrooms, Jennifer insisted that none of them bathed after the murder, that they just ran out of the house. For this, Jennifer got a 60-year sentence. As for David, whose role in the murder is murky given the inconsistencies between the three teen stories, his records are sealed because he was a minor at the time, so we couldn't find much information about the court proceedings in the case, but we know he was sentenced to 26 years in prison at 13, which seems like a lot.

It really does, yeah. As for Mary Lee White, she got a five-year probated sentence for attack on her mother. She's now rehabilitated, married with a kid. I can only imagine how she feels now about this weird-ass chapter in our life. life, but I bet she's damn glad she didn't succeed at killing her mom. I'm sure. Author Donna Fielder visited all three of the teenage killers in prison while she was writing her book Let's Kill Mom.

Paul Henson told her he's earned his GED in prison and converted to Judaism. He has a prison tat on his chest that says mind of a maniac. Cool. He's also been treated for depression and psychosis allegedly and says Talas hasn't come around since he got diagnosed. All that sounds great, but he's still lying his ass off about the murder. He told Fielder there was never a plan to kill their parents, just to save enough money to run off to Canada.

And according to Paul, David was the only real killer. He and Jennifer were just horrified innocent bystanders. And he wants to hire an attorney to exonerate Jennifer. Because campers, chivalry ain't dead. Get you a man that'll try to exonerate you for the murder. of your brother. And blame your 13-year-old brother. God.

Fielder said David was the only one of the three who showed any remorse for what happened, and he's been really active in prison. He plays the trombone in the worship band, works in the kitchen, and he's in the Toastmasters Club, a club for public speakers, in case you're not familiar. He said the night of the murder is kind of a blur to him now. The two years leading up to it were hard on him. His best friend moved away, his parents got divorced, his granddad died. He said he felt like his mom had abandoned him.

He said he appreciates now that she was sacrificing a lot for him and Jennifer, but at the time it didn't feel like that. Jennifer was his surrogate mom, and he felt more bonded to her than to anybody else. That was what pushed him into doing what he did. He didn't want to lose her like he'd lost everyone else. He also said he identified a lot with Paul Henson. He was weird, sure, but so was David. When Donna Fielder asked him about his cutting, he said he'd done it to imitate

Paul. Wow. David's creepiest revelation was this. The pudding was a bigger part of the plan than anyone realized. Marily and Jennifer crushed up an entire bottle of Tylenol in there, which in itself would have been enough to kill Susan if she'd eaten it. Oh yeah, that would shut your liver down in no time flat. When that didn't work and Susan fell asleep, Jennifer told David to go into her room and stab her. David said, I picked out one of the biggest knives. I checked the root from my room to hers for squeaks in the floor. I marked out each step I would take. So when she went to sleep that night, I just got up and went to her room. I was standing over her with a knife in my hand. I was blank, just empty. I had no thoughts. But then one thought came to me. I can't do this.

I walked out. He went downstairs to where his sister was waiting in the pantry. He told Donna Fielder, I just broke down crying. I said I couldn't do it. She hugged me and said it was okay. Then mom walked into the kitchen and said, What are you doing? We said, nothing. And she told us to go back to bed.

Yikes. Yeah. David said that he'd hidden in his room during the actual murder. After the fact, Jennifer was throwing up, and they were all in a panic. So they left the house with no money, no passports, no clothes. Paul kept saying, I'm sorry.

And David told him, It had to be done. Oh, man. David seems to have seen a lot of psychiatrists in prison. At the end of the interview, he said, in my mind, Mom hadn't been there for me. Now I realized that she'd always been there. If I'd sat down and thought about it,

I would have realized how stupid I was, but I didn't. I was too immature. Words can't express how sorry I am. I made a choice, and that choice was wrong. Nothing will ever excuse it. I've learned to appreciate what I had. Mom loved me so much. Sometimes you don't know what you have until you lose it and can't ever get it back.

Of all three of them, he's the one I think might actually be rehabilitated, or at least well on his way. Either that or he's just real good at knowing exactly what to say to sound like he's sorry. But the optimistic part of me hopes it's the former, not the latter, and that he'll get out someday and make a good life for himself. I would have to agree he was so young when the moment. murder took place. And it really feels like maybe he didn't fully grasp the impact of his actions. I mean, thinking back to the conversation with Paul in the police car, like, that's not, that's not the behavior of somebody that understands that they took somebody's life and they're

in trouble. I think it wasn't real to him. And he even told Jennifer, it's like a movie. Right. Yeah. Which you could read two ways. On the one hand, it's like super creepy and callous. But then on the other hand, when you consider his age. Right. You know, yeah. I think I'm inclined to agree with you there. And we're not saying that that excuses or exonerates him, but it certainly shows how easily manipulated he probably was by the only person who he thought was there for him, which was Jennifer. Yeah, and I'm really glad he's gotten counseling,

and he's clearly leaned into that. And to me, he seems like the only one of the three that really has a chance of rehabilitation. Right. Before she agreed to her interview with Donna Fielder, Ms. Jennifer imposed a few conditions. The main one was that she wanted to tell her story, quote, unchallenged. Yeah, I can hear y'all's eyes rolling all over the world right there.

We're right there with you. Unlike David and Paul, who both seemed to at least somewhat understand the gravity of what they did, Jennifer's focus has always been on painting her mom as an abusive maniac. Her attitude honestly seems to be she deserved to die. Not that she said that exactly in those words, but from the moment she got arrested, she seems to have spent most of her time and energy trashing her mom's memory. She told Donna Fielder, no one knew what went on behind closed doors. Her mom worked her like Cinderella.

One time when Jennifer left dirty dishes in the sink, Susan pulled her out of school just to make her clean the house, etc., etc. About Paul Henson, she said, I was intrigued, curious. I have a scientific mind, and I wanted to know what made him tick. I don't have that kind of curiosity anymore. I don't want to ever have anything more to do with him. I know campers, I know that hurts to hear, because we really really. thought their love was eternal. Romance is dead. I know. It's hard to hear. I'm so sorry. And once again, she blamed the whole thing on Paul. There was never a plan for murder. She had no idea

merely was going to stab her mom. She and David had never wanted to hurt Susan and blahdy, bloody bloody bullshit, blah. Yeah, she was evil and deserved to die, but I didn't do it. It was that evil Paul. He did it. But if I had done it, she would have had it coming, but I didn't. But she was the worst and abusive. I know. It's like she's trying to have it both ways. Jennifer says she's found God in prison, and he's forgiven her. Good for her, I guess. I am glad you decided that, Jennifer, if God's forgiven you, I guess it's fine, huh?

We should let you out? Go fuck yourself, you vapid bitch. Yeah, Susan's still dead. I can't help but notice. And, you know, I'm sure she wasn't a perfect mom, because what mom is a perfect mom? There's no perfect mom, but she loved her kids. and even if Jennifer doesn't get that now David seems to she didn't deserve what happened to her

I can't imagine a worse way to die than staring into your own daughter's eyes while she stabs you in the throat it's just it's a nightmare and this woman was working so hard I know we've harped on that but she was just her entire life was dedicated to trying to make a nice environment for these kids so here we have another case

of teenagers who got so caught up in their own world, their own fantasy life, that anything in the way of that became expendable. And in this case, brutally so. And now, not only has Susan lost her life, but the three you killed her have given up theirs, or the best years of them, at least. What a waste. So that was a wild one, right campers? You know we'll have another one for you next week. But for now, lock your doors, light your lights, and stay safe until we get together again around the true crime campfire. And as always, we want to send a grateful shout out to a few of our newest patrons. Thank you so much to Madeline, Kirsten, Tina, Morgan, and Tom. And y'all, if you're not yet a patron, you're missing out. Patrons of our show get every

episode ad-free, at least a day early, sometimes more, plus an extra episode a month. And once you hit the $5 and up categories, you get even more cool stuff. A free sticker at $5, a rad enamel pin while supplies last at 10 virtual events with Katie and me, and we're always looking for new stuff to do for you. So if you can, come join us.