Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly - Hard Days & Golden Knights: The World of Brand Twins

Episode Date: April 8, 2023

Even though brand names are often protected by trademarks and copyrights, it’s remarkable how many times companies end up with the same names.And they either get along – or they sue each other into oblivion.This week, we look at “Brand Twins.”We’ll talk about when Guns N’ Roses sued Guns and Rosé.We’ll explain why there used to be the Saskatchewan Roughriders AND the Ottawa Rough Riders in the CFL.And that time Ringo sued the Ring O sex toy company. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly. As you may know, we've been producing a lot of bonus episodes while under the influences on hiatus. They're called the Beatleology Interviews, where I talk to people who knew the Beatles, work with them, love them, and the authors who write about them. Well, the Beatleology Interviews have become a hit, so we are spinning it out to be a standalone podcast series. You've already heard conversations with people like actors Mark Hamill, Malcolm McDowell, and Beatles confidant Astrid Kershaw. But coming up, I talk to May Pang, who dated John Lennon in the mid-70s. I talk to double fantasy guitarist Earl Slick, Apple Records creative director John Kosh. I'll be talking to Jan Hayworth,

who designed the Sgt. Pepper album cover. Very cool. And I'll talk to singer Dion, who is one of only five people still alive who were on the Sgt. Pepper cover. And two of those people were Beatles. The stories they tell are amazing. So thank you for making this series such a success. And please, do me a favor, follow the Beatleology interviews on your podcast app. You don't even have to be a huge Beatles fan, you just have to love storytelling.

Subscribe now, and don't miss a single beat. This is an apostrophe podcast production. Your teeth look whiter than no nose. You're not you when you're hungry. You're a good hand with all the teeth. You're Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. Back in 1964, as Beatlemania was sweeping the world, it was announced the Beatles were heading to South America for a concert tour. Fans in Argentina couldn't believe their luck.

The agreement was signed, the press was alerted, tickets were sold. The hysteria began. Screaming kids crowded the airport upon the group's arrival. Getting the band from the plane to their hotel was chaotic.

TV stations fought each other to get the band to perform on their shows. Channel 9 won the battle and mounted a huge advertising campaign

to announce the upcoming performance. When the band was introduced on the TV stage in front of a packed house, the fans were expecting John, Paul, George and Ringo. What they got instead was Dave, Tom, Bill and Vic. When the group hit the stage, the bass drum said, The American Beatles, with Beatles spelled B-E-E-T-L-E-S. The four guys in the band had long hair like the Beatles,

they dressed like the Beatles, and they kind of sounded like the Beatles. In all the excitement, half the audience realized these were fake Beatles, and the other half didn't seem to care and screamed with delight. The American Beatles had an interesting backstory. They were originally a doo-wop harmony group called the Ardells. They had been performing in a Miami, Florida nightclub. Their manager saw the wild success of the Beatles

and suddenly got an idea. They're the English Beatles, he thought. I'm going to make up a group called the American Beatles. He recruited the Ardells, got them to grow their hair long, put them into fab four suits, and changed their name to the American Beatles. He recruited the Ardells, got them to grow their hair long, put them into Fab Four suits,

and changed their name to the American Beatles with a double E. At first, it started as a bit of a joke, but then they wondered how far they could take it. Their manager looked for places where the Fab Four hadn't performed yet. The answer was South America. So he found a promoter and booked a big concert tour there.

When pitching the Fabricated Four to Argentinian venues and TV stations, he conveniently forgot to mention the American Beatles part. Argentina thought they were getting the real thing. The country could barely contain its excitement. But when it was finally revealed these were the American Beatles, not the English Beatles,

the press realized they had been duped and turned on the band. But fans still clapped along, caught up in the hysteria, and just happy to see the next best thing. The American Beatles continued to tour, with packed shows in Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, and Lima. When the band finally returned to Miami

to play at the same club where the ruse had started, they had four surprise visitors one night. John, Paul, George, and Ringo. The real Beatles were in Miami for a concert and came to the club to see these American Beatles. Later, the American Beatles actually made it to American Bandstand and told Dick Clark the story. What was their reaction to seeing you?

Well, it was very... Were they friendly? Yes, they were. In fact, Ringo and Paul had got up to dance to our music and it made us feel rather, you know... The Beatles were dancing to the Beatles' music? Yep, the Beatles had met their twins and they were okay with it.

There are twins in the world of marketing too. Companies and products that happen to have the same name. These brand twins are usually very different products in very different categories. Often, they manage to coexist with a we-can-work-it-out mentality. And sometimes, brand twins don't get along at all. Then, it's a tug of war. You're under the influence.

A brand name is a valuable component of any product or company. Protection of that name is provided by trademarks, copyrights, and patents. Yet, with all that legal armor, it's remarkable how many products have the same names. The Chevrolet Suburban, for example, was first manufactured in 1934.

It is the longest continuously used automobile nameplate still in production today. But back in the late 40s, Plymouth came out with its own Suburban, because Chevrolet had failed to trademark the name. Both Suburbans competed in the marketplace for over 20 years, until Plymouth retired the name in the 1960s. There are many airports with the same name. There is a Barcelona airport in Spain and a Barcelona airport in Venezuela.

There is a Florence airport in Italy and another one in South Carolina. There is a Fort Smith airport in the Northwest Territories and another one in Arkansas. That's why airports have location identifier codes, like YSM for Fort Smith in Canada and FSM for the one in the U.S. But sometimes, companies with the same names create a lot of legal turbulence. There is a fried chicken restaurant in South Korea called Louis Vuitton Dac. Not only was the name nearly identical to Louis Vuitton, the luxury brand, but the logo and the packaging also resembled the fashion company. So, Louis Vuitton sued Louis Vuitton Dac, the chicken joint.

The court ruled in favor of the fashion company, and Louis Vuitton Dac was ordered to change its name and packaging immediately, or else it would face large daily fines. So, the fast food chicken restaurant quickly changed its name to Louis V. Tondak. I kid you not. The court didn't find that funny. At all. The fried chicken owner claimed that Tondak is Korean for

whole chicken. Be that as it may, fashion house Louis Vuitton had been established since 1854 and has big counterfeit problems around the world, so any encroachment on its brand is taken very seriously. This time, the court wasn't so lenient and fined the fried chicken joint 14.5 million Korean dollars.

While the Louis Vuitton versus Louis Vuitton case was amusing, it also highlights the complexity of the law. Usually, if there are two products in the same category with the same name,

the older brand wins. And usually, if two products in the same category with the same name, the older brand wins. And usually, if two products have the same name but are in two different categories, they are allowed to continue using their names as long as courts believe there's no confusion in the marketplace. But sometimes, the definition of confusion is confusing. In 2019, the rock band Guns N' Roses sued a Colorado-based brewery for selling an ale called Guns N' Rose.

The brewery describes the beer as a sticky, prickly pear and floral hibiscus with a subtle hop profile. The band was also very prickly about the Guns N' Roses merchandise, which included T-shirts, stickers, buttons, and bandanas. The rockers maintained they had suffered irreparable damage to their trademarks, reputation, and goodwill. The case was eventually settled out of court. But it wasn't the only brand Twin Guns N' Roses has dealt with recently.

The name Guns N' Roses, by the way, was created when two bands merged back in 1985. Guitarist Tracy Guns had a band named L.A. Guns, and Axl Rose had a band named Hollywood Rose, and when they joined forces, they became Guns N' Roses. Just last year, Guns N' Roses sued a Texas company called Guns N' Roses. The Houston-based business is an online gun store and florist. There's an unusual combination. The band had sent two cease-and-desist notices, but apparently the gun and flower shop didn't respond.

So, Axl and the boys took them to court. The band accused the gun retailer of wholesale appropriation of its trademark in order to increase its sales of weapons and bouquets. The firearm and flower store argued that the names weren't actually identical. The band is called Guns N' Roses, whereas the weapons and bouquet retailer is called Guns and Roses.

The band argued that their N is short form for the word and. Plus, Guns N' Roses stated that it doesn't want to be associated with a firearms dealer or its political views when it comes to the regulations of weapons. The band is asking for punitive damages, lawsuit costs, and attorney's fees. The thorny case is pending. Brand twins can exist phonetically, too.

For example, there is Sunoco and Sunoco. Sunoco, spelled with a U, is in the petroleum business, and Sunoco, spelled with an O, is in the consumer and industrial packaging business. Then there is also Cisco and Cisco. Cisco, spelled S-Y-S-C-O, is a giant food services provider, whereas Cisco, spelled C-I-S-C-O, named after San Francisco where it was founded,

is a leading supplier of computer networking systems. They are in completely different industries, spell differently, and there is no confusion in the marketplace, so the names can coexist. Just be careful when you're buying their stock. There are a lot of celebrities with the same names. Back in the 70s, there was a talk show hosted by Mike Douglas.

At the same time, there was an actor named Michael Douglas making a name for himself on a TV show called The Streets of San Francisco. At the same time, there was another actor trying to break into the business named Michael Douglas. Looking around at all the other Michael Douglases, he decided to change his name to Michael Keaton. Then there are the Jordans. One is actor Michael B. Jordan, and the other is basketball superstar Michael Jordan.

Speaking of twins, a man once sued superstar Michael Jordan for $416 million and sued Nike for an additional $400 million for making Jordan a celebrity. Alan Heckard brought the lawsuit because he looks just like Jordan. He says he had been mistaken for the basketball legend every day for the past 15 years. He claimed he couldn't ride public transportation or eat in

a restaurant without people pestering him for autographs and photos, causing him emotional pain and suffering. Heckard eventually dropped the suit. The final score at the 64th Great Cup game back in 1976 was Rough Riders 23, Rough Riders 20. It's one of the great Canadian sports anomalies of all time. There aren't many examples where two teams, in the same country, in the same sport, in the same league, have the same names. But the Ottawa Rough Riders and the Saskatchewan Rough Riders were brand twins for decades. The Ottawa Rough Riders, with rough and riders being two separate words,

were founded in 1876 and adopted the name in 1898, along with their red and black colors. Ottawa kept its name until 1925, when the club changed its name to the Ottawa Senators, before reverting back to the Rough Riders in 1930. It's thought the name came from the Canadians who fought with Teddy Roosevelt's famous troops in the Spanish-American War, who sported red and black colors.

Meanwhile, the Regina Rugby Club changed its name to the Regina Rough Riders, Rough Riders being all one word, back in 1924. The rugby team eventually transitioned to football and became the Saskatchewan Rough Riders in 1946. The origin of their name is said to have come from the mounted police and the Rough Riders who broke their Broncos. Saskatchewan won their first Grey Cup back in 1966. The score was Rough Riders 29, Rough Riders 14.

Amazingly, both teams found a way to coexist for 65 years. But after winning nine Grey Cups, the Ottawa Rough Riders folded in 1996. The team came back as the Ottawa Renegades for a few years, then folded again. When the franchise was ready to return once more, it was blocked from using the Rough Riders name this time around. So the club rebranded as the Ottawa Red Blacks and made their CFL debut in 2014. And if you think the Rough Riders and the Rough Riders was odd, consider the Golden Knights and the Golden Knights.

When the Las Vegas Golden Knights joined the NHL in 2017, the team actually reached the Stanley Cup Finals in the very first year of its existence. It's widely considered to be one of the greatest opening seasons by an expansion team in all of professional sports history. The team owner, who was a graduate of the United States Military Academy, wanted to call his team the Black Knights,

in honor of the academy sports team the Army Black Knights. When he encountered resistance from the military, he changed the name to the Golden Knights instead to avoid a trademark dispute. That led to a trademark dispute. It turns out the Army

has a parachute team called the Golden Knights that dated back to 1962. And one year called the Golden Knights that dated back to 1962. And one year after the Golden Knights hit the ice, the Army filed legal opposition to the hockey team's name. The Army's lawyer argued the Golden Knights parachute team name was firmly established by the United States Army and had won over 2,000 gold trophies in competitions. Furthermore, the Army claimed it would be damaged by the similar name, logo, and color scheme,

as the twin name falsely suggested a connection. The attorney for the hockey team argued the entities had already coexisted for a full year without a single complaint, adding that not one fan attending the hockey games was expecting to see the parachute team landing on the ice. Seven months later, the two entered into a coexistence agreement that allowed the hockey team to file for trademark rights

while still allowing the Army parachute team to keep using their name. It didn't hurt that the Golden Knights hockey owner while still allowing the Army Parachute Team to keep using their name. It didn't hurt that the Golden Knights hockey owner had made a $15 million donation to the West Point Military Academy in 2007, and his name adorns its athletic center. A band name is a brand name. When the Grateful Dead formed in 1965, they were called the Warlocks. They played their first gig at Magoo's Pizza Parlor in Menlo Park, California. Then they landed a steady gig at a joint called Frenchie's Bikini A Go-Go.

They were playing five sets a night, five nights a week, and started to make a name for themselves. That's when a problem popped up. The Warlocks discovered another band called the Warlocks had beaten them to the punch and had already put out a record under that name. Meanwhile, up in New York, there was a third band called the Warlocks who discovered there were two other bands with the same name. Meanwhile, up in New York, there was a third band called the Warlocks who discovered there were two other bands with the same name. So the California Warlocks got together in utter

desperation to try and come up with another name. Jerry Garcia opened an old book that was laying around, and the first thing he saw were the words Grateful Dead in huge black letters. The term was defined as the soul of a dead person showing gratitude to someone who, as an act of charity, arranged their burial. From that day on, the warlocks became the Grateful Dead. Meanwhile, up in New York... The Warlocks, led by Lou Reed, had to change their name, too. One day, a friend of theirs showed them a book he had found lying in the street. It was titled The Velvet Underground,

written by journalist Mike Lee in 1963. The book explored the underground sexual subculture of New York City. Lou Reed was fascinated by subculture, the band loved the name, and they adopted it immediately. The Grateful Dead

and The Velvet Underground went on to great success. The onlyateful Dead and the Velvet Underground went on to great success. The only band that didn't was the original Warlocks. A lot has happened in the Elvis Presley Enterprises world lately. First, Elvis the movie was released to wide acclaim. Secondly, Elvis's only child, Lisa Marie, died suddenly of cardiac arrest. As of this writing, Priscilla Presley is challenging her daughter's will in court

as an amendment to the will removed Priscilla as a trustee and she suspects Lisa Marie's signature on the amendment was forged. No doubt, there have been many jailhouse rockin' lawsuits in the world of Elvis Presley over the years, and a recent one centered on a brand twin situation.

The Presley estate sued a Scottish brewer named Brewdog in a trademark dispute. The beer in question is called Elvis Juice IPA. The Presley organization wanted the name changed. The brewers felt differently. The founders, James Watt and Mark Dickey, then made a bold move. They both legally changed their first names to Elvis,

arguing the beer was named after them, not the king. The founders also issued a cheeky statement that read, We're caught in a trap and suggest the gray-suited hound dogs at the Presley estate recognize that the name Elvis

is not exclusive. So, in an effort to patch it up, we've changed our names to highlight our burning love for the best grapefruit IPA out there. They continued saying, From this point forward, Elvis Juice is named after us,

the brewers formerly known as James and Martin. We may even file a case against Mr. Presley for using our names on all his records without our written permission. They also suggested the Presley estate should instead be going after another brewery, the one that called itself the King of Beers. The king of beers. We've mentioned the Beatles earlier. One of the biggest brand twin lawsuits was between Apple Records and Apple Computers.

We've talked about that story in a past episode. The Beatles were okay with Apple computers using the Apple name as long as they didn't get into the music business. Then came iTunes. Then came an army of lawyers. Well, here's another strange case of twin brands involving one of the Fab Four.

Ringo Starr recently brought a trademark infringement suit against Ringo Sex Toys. The company behind Ringo Sex Toys is called Screaming-O and claims to be an award-winning adult product designer of some of the most popular sex toys on the market.

Sir Ringo wants no part of it. His lawyers complained that the Ringo sex brand was identical in appearance, connotation, and pronunciation to Ringo's trademark stage name. They said since Ringo's name has been tied to a wide variety of products over the years, consumers would likely believe that Ringo Sex toys

are the drummer's newest venture, and that would tarnish Ringo's reputation. The Ringo Sex toy company responded by accusing the beetle of being a trademark squatter. Eventually, Ringo settled the case. Here are the stipulations. Ringo sex toys must be spelled RING-O, and there must be separation between the ring and the O. The Ringo mark can only be used on adult sex aids and desensitizing sprays. I have no idea what that

is. Ringo shall not use any words, references, or innuendo associating the products with Ringo Starr, Beatles songs, or the Beatles themselves. And here's the best part. Ringo Starr agrees not to get into the adult sexual aids or desensitizing spray business. I still have no idea what that is. Anyway, case closed. Nice to hear they were able to come together to find a solution.

Staking your claim in the world of brand names is a dicey business. Unless you're making up a name like Xerox, there is likely someone else out there that shares your brand name. But many companies find a way to live and let live. Chevy Suburbans and Plymouth Suburbans traveled the highways together for over 20 years. The Rough Riders and the Rough Riders got along for over 65 years. And the Golden Knights and the Golden Knights shook hands

and made it a point to stay out of each other's lanes. But when it comes to the music world, it's live and let die. While the Beatles were okay with the American Beatles, they had a big problem when Apple Computers crept over into the music business. Elvis Presley's estate went straight to court when Elvis Beer appeared. Even though the two brewery owners went to all the trouble of changing their names to Elvis, they ended up losing the case and were left with two new first names

and a nameless beer. Ringo dragged Ringo Sex Toys into court, Guns N' Roses unleashed their lawyers onto Guns N' Rose, and they weren't happy when they looked down the barrel of a gun shop that sold flowers. That's a lot of legal warfare. Welcome to the jungle when you're under the influence. I'm Terry O'Reilly. This episode was recorded in the Terrastream Mobile Recording Studio.

Producer, Debbie O'Reilly. Sound Engineer, Jeff Devine. Under the influence theme by Ari Posner and Ian Lefevre. Music provided by APM Music. Follow me on social at Terry O'Influence. This is Season 12. If you're enjoying this episode, you might also like The Odd Couple, Unlikely Marketing Collaborations, Season 6, Episode 10. You'll find it in our archives on your favorite podcast app.

You can now find our podcasts on the Apostrophe YouTube channel. And if you think too many ads in a show about advertising makes it a rough ride, you can now listen ad-free on Amazon Music. See you next week. Fun fact! Terry O'Reilly has two brand twins. One was the captain of the Boston Bruins,

and the other writes gay erotic fiction. There have been no lawsuits... so far.