Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly - History of the Goalie Mask

Episode Date: August 2, 2025

We thought you might enjoy an episode from our sister podcast, “We Regret To Inform You: The Rejection Podcast” - this week it’s the history of the goalie mask. Coaches didn’t want them, manag...ers rejected them, the NHL didn’t want them - but one goalie did. The rest is history. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Did you know that if you subscribe to our But Wait There's More option, you get a bonus story in every episode of Under the Influence. But wait, there's more! For the price of a cup of coffee every month, you get early access so you'll hear every episode a full week before everybody else. Plus, you enjoy that episode ad-free. Tsk tsk. And by subscribing, you support our podcast.
Starting point is 00:00:28 Just go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe to Under the Influences, but wait, there's more. Art has power to inspire us, to unite us, to give us solace and courage when we need it most. To create important stories, lasting memories, a sense of belonging. Your National Arts Centre serves as a catalyst in communities across Canada, empowering artists, inspiring audiences, and bringing us closer together. Learn more at nac.ca slash create in Canada. Hey, you're a Canadian podcast listener, and that makes you important to us. We'd like to know more about you, what you think of this podcast, and the other podcasts
Starting point is 00:01:19 you'd like to hear. So we've put together a super brief survey we'd like you to fill out. Complete it and we'll give you a chance to win one of three $100 Amazon gift cards. That way we can say thanks for your opinion. Just go to mypodcastsurvey.ca and have your say. That's mypodcastsurvey.ca. Here's a question. How can you support Canada while you sleep? Well, you can do it by sleeping on a Douglas mattress, the mattress designed and manufactured right here in Canada. Douglas mattresses start at just $599 and come with a free comfort sleep bundle which
Starting point is 00:02:02 includes two memory foam pillows, a waterproof mattress protector, and an entire cotton sheet set. And how's this for risk-free Canadian convenience? You can enjoy a Douglas mattress for a 365 night in-home trial. You don't love it. Douglas will pick up the mattress for free, donate it to a local charity,
Starting point is 00:02:23 and refund you in full. No hassle, no hassle, no risk. Douglas has been named Canada's best mattress by Canadian Living and is loved by 250,000 sound sleepers like me. Don't wait! Visit Douglas.ca slash under the influence to claim this exclusive offer for Canadian listeners with free shipping.
Starting point is 00:02:44 Sleep better knowing your mattress is made in Canada. Douglas Mattress, Canada's best mattress. Hi everybody. This week we thought you might like to listen to an episode of We Regret to Inform You, which is another Apostrophe podcast show. In this episode, it's the story of the goalie mask and how nobody wanted goalies to wear masks back in the day. The coaches didn't want it. The managers didn't want it.
Starting point is 00:03:14 The brass at the NHL were all against it. But one goalie insisted on wearing a mask and he changed the history of hockey. And by the way, we regret to inform you, the podcast has just been picked up by CBC and runs on CBC Radio One on Wednesdays and Sundays. Here is Goalie Masks. This is an Apost to inform you. This is We Regret to Inform You, the Rejection Podcast. Anyone who wears a mask is a chicken.
Starting point is 00:04:21 My face is my mask. Gumporsley. The first organized game of hockey was said to take place on March 3, 1875, on Montreal's Victoria skating rink. Back then, the blades of hockey sticks were flat, which made it difficult to lift the puck off the ice, so the game stayed relatively low to the playing surface. Goalies were allowed to stop the puck only with their sticks.
Starting point is 00:04:58 Dropping down onto the ice would result in penalties, unless, of course, the drop was an accidental fall. One day in 1896, goalie George Merritt of the Winnipeg Victorias decided to strap a pair of cricket pads to his shins to protect his kneecaps in what was then called the Stanley Cup Challenge. Below the waist padding became more and more common amongst goaltenders, and soon more and more goaltenders started accidentally falling to stop a goal. So the president of the brand new National Hockey League made a change to the game.
Starting point is 00:05:43 There were too many accidental falls happening on his watch. So, in 1918, he announced that goalies could legally drop to their knees during play. In fact, he said goalies could stand on their heads if they thought it might stop a puck. Suddenly the low game became extremely high risk. All across the league, men's noses were breaking, cheekbones shattering. But it may, or may not, surprise you to know that the first goalie to ever wear a mask in an organized game of hockey was a woman. 21-year-old Elizabeth Graham was a Queen's University student who was getting ready for a big game against the University of Toronto.
Starting point is 00:06:35 Graham played goal for the Queen's Love Me Littles, a name coined to reflect the lack of love the women's team got from the men's. She'd recently had dental work done, thanks to an aerobatic save in a previous game, and she'd wanted to protect her investment. So, on February 7, 1927, the goalie slid on a mesh fencing mask. Graham said she did it because it just made practical sense. Queens won that night, 3-2. And though the victory was headline worthy, what got written up the next day in the Montreal Daily Star wasn't Elizabeth Graham's saves.
Starting point is 00:07:21 It was her mask. Fast forward three years to 1930. Meet Clint Benedict, a goalie for the Montreal Maroons. Benedict liked to drop down to his knees to make a save. So much so, he earned himself the nickname, Praying Benny. But one night, the Holy Goley was knocked unconscious by a flying puck, breaking multiple facial bones. Suddenly, Benny was praying for a swift recovery. Six weeks later, he returned to the ice. The Maroons were facing the New York Americans at Madison Square Garden.
Starting point is 00:08:05 But that night, Benedict looked different. He slid into the crease donning a big, leather face mask. One historian described the mask as Martian, another as something adjacent to a boxer's sparring mask. Benedict played a handful of games with the Martian mask, but found the nosepiece cumbersome, claiming it impaired his vision. A 2-1 loss against the Chicago Blackhawks solidified this theory. The first professional goalie to wear a face covering in a game ditched said face covering. And no NHL player would wear a mask again for decades.
Starting point is 00:08:55 In the book Saving Face, The Art and History of the Goalie Mask, authors Jim Hines and Gary Smith wrote that at that time goalies weren't considered to be in harm's way, so there was no need for added protection. But goalies everywhere felt differently about that. When asked why he showed up clean shaven on game days, Toronto Maple Leaf's goalie Lorne Chabot said it was because he stitched up better on smooth skin. Legendary four-time Stanley Cup champion Terry Sawchuck received over 400 stitches in his face across his career.
Starting point is 00:09:37 The goaltender sustained a broken nose twice over, a broken arm, broken foot, ruptured discs, a collapsed lung, a shattered elbow, and the list goes on. Satchuk once stopped a puck with a glove that offered no protection to the back of the hand, and a player skated directly across it, severing all the tendons in his hand. Satchuk would turn to self-medicating, and after a brawl with a teammate, succumb to his final injuries. It's said Satchuk died a hero and a physical and mental wreck. Authors Heinz and Smith wrote that these NHL goalies endured the fear and pain because at the time there were only six decent goaltending jobs in the world, and despite the dangers, there was fierce competition for those jobs.
Starting point is 00:10:39 There were no second string goalies. You skated off the ice, were stitched up without anesthetic, and sent back between the pipes to finish the game. In the 40s and 50s, there was little talk about protecting one's head. But it wasn't lost on these players that they ought to start protecting their faces. So a few goalies started wearing masks in practice. Of course, a hockey mask still didn't exist, so players had to MacGyver face protectors. One looked like a welder's mask, another like a visor.
Starting point is 00:11:18 They weren't great. Players complained they were too hot that their breath fogged up the front, impairing their vision. But no one hated goalie masks more than the coaches and GMs. Heinz and Smith wrote that netminders who masked up faced a minefield of resistance from management. Grievances included that Masks prevented goalies from seeing the puck at their feet. Masks eliminated fear in goalies, the fear that drove them to play well.
Starting point is 00:11:56 Masks made goalies complacent and that a real man wouldn't hide his face from his opponents. General managers were responsible for ticket sales, and to quote Muzpatrick, New York Rangers GM from 55 to 64, women who like hockey want to see the players' faces. While you listen today, pop over to our socials. We collected images of all the masks in this episode, and some you really have to see to believe. So you can find them at apostrophe pod on X or Instagram. And we'll be right back. I think about the last time I got a paper cut or nicked my finger while chopping up vegetables.
Starting point is 00:13:06 I took care of it right away, as I'm sure you would too. But when your gums feel a little tender or you see a little bleeding when you brush, it's so easy to ignore. Why do we do that? Especially when the solve can be so simple. Use Colgate ParioGard to significantly reduce gum bleeding and inflammation. It helps fight bacteria that can cause early gum disease and improves gum health with daily use. So the next time your gums feel sensitive,
Starting point is 00:13:36 don't shrug it off. Help take care of it. With Colgate Periogard, healthy gums, confident smile. Guard Healthy Gums, Confident Smile. Art has power to inspire us, to unite us, to give us solace and courage when we need it most. To create important stories, lasting memories, a sense of belonging. Your National Arts Centre serves as a catalyst in communities across Canada, empowering artists, inspiring audiences, and bringing us closer together. Learn more at nac.ca slash create in Canada. Hey, you're a Canadian podcast listener, and that makes you important to us. We'd like to know more about you, what you think of this podcast, and the other podcasts you'd like to hear.
Starting point is 00:14:31 So we've put together a super brief survey we'd like you to fill out. Complete it, and we'll give you a chance to win one of three $100 Amazon gift cards. That way, we can say thanks for your opinion. Just go to mypodcastsurvey.ca and have your say. That's mypodcastsurvey.ca. Muzz Patrick rejected safety concerns and stated that no goaltender for the Rangers would ever wear a mask. As the decades passed, hockey got faster, more aggressive. The game evolved, but the equipment did not, and goalies developed crippling anxiety. Some players developed ulcers as young as 17. Others threw up in the dressing room between
Starting point is 00:15:41 periods. One goalie for the Montreal Canadiens suffered asthma attacks and crippling nausea before games, but he was dismissed as a hypochondriac. That goalie was Jacques Plante. In the 1959-1960 season, the Montreal Canadiens were in the midst of a record-breaking Stanley Cup streak. They'd taken home the Cup in 1956, 1957, 1958, and 1959, all with Jacques Plante in goal. Now they were on the heels of a fifth straight win. In the seven NHL seasons he'd played up until that point,
Starting point is 00:16:26 Plante had received 150 stitches in his face. So he, like a few of his fellow goaltenders, had started wearing masks in practice. Then one night in a game against the Boston Bruins, Plante's forehead was sliced by a puck. Play was paused while Plante got stitched up in the locker room. Fans anxiously awaited his return, and as the minutes ticked by, one of those fans got an idea. His name was Bill Burchmore. He worked for Fiberglass Canada in Montreal.
Starting point is 00:17:09 Fiberglass is essentially glass-reinforced plastic, used mostly to make boats at that time. It was easy to mold and manipulate, but hardened after setting into a strong yet light material. And Birchmore started to wonder, what if he made the Montreal Canadiens goalie a fiberglass mask? Birchmore decided to write the beloved goaltender a letter detailing his concept for a plastic mask and offering to custom make one for Plante. All Plante would have to do was sit still while Burchmore molded the plastic to fit his face.
Starting point is 00:17:54 Plante likely got hundreds, if not thousands, of letters every season from hockey fans. But this one gave him pause. Burchmore said surely Plante thought he was nuts. But soon the Stanley Cup winning goalie, along with the team's trainer and doctor, were standing in front of him. Burchmore placed a woman's stocking over Plants' head before covering his skin with Vaseline and sliding straws into his nostrils. Then Birchmore poured liquid plastic all down Jacques Plants' face.
Starting point is 00:18:38 The mask would weigh about one pound, at three sixteenths of an inch thick. It was white with round eye holes, a rectangular mouth hole, and frankly, it looked a little Michael Myers-esque. But Birchmoor didn't care if people found the mask off-putting. He said he designed it for protection, not for aesthetics. It fit perfectly to the contours of Plante's face, adding, if it was made for Clark Gable, it would look like Clark Gable. Plante wore his new mask at practice, but was given a strict directive never to wear it in a game. a strict directive never to wear it in a game. Canadians coach Toe Blake said if Plante wore the mask and they lost a game, the mask would be blamed.
Starting point is 00:19:32 If he wore the mask and he lost his record fifth straight NHL goalie of the year award, the mask would be blamed. If he wore the mask and the Canadians lost their bid at a fifth straight Stanley Cup, the mask would be blamed. So Plante left the mask in the locker room on game days. Then on November 1, 1959, the Canadians faced the New York Rangers on enemy ice. And three minutes into the game, a slap shot by Rangers star Andy Bathgate clocked Plont right in the nose. Plont said the coach always told
Starting point is 00:20:13 him to use his head, and he did. His nose was broken. He needed stitches, and it was then that Plont told coach Blake he wouldn't finish the game without his mask. Blake wasn't happy. Without a second string goalie, he started searching for amateur goalies in the stands. When no decent alternative materialized, Blake reluctantly allowed Plante back into the net, if and only if he promised to discard the mask as soon as his face healed. Plante skated back onto the ice under a one-pound sheet of fiberglass, and by the time he reached the crease, the stands fell silent. Then, audible gasps echoed around the garden.
Starting point is 00:21:12 One sportswriter said the white mask looked like Plante's exposed skull. Others wrote that Plante looked like something out of a Hollywood horror show, like he'd died from the neck up. One Rangers fan said that Plante had missed Halloween by a day. Another wondered aloud if he was aware of how much he'd startled the elderly and frightened the children. Rangers goalie Gump Worsley said any goalie who wore a mask was a chicken. His face was his mask. The Canadians beat the Rangers that night 3-1.
Starting point is 00:21:53 Soon word spread beyond the garden about Plante's plastic protector, and more players chimed in. The consensus? No woman would ever come watch a game if Plante wore an unsightly mask. But Plante said at the rate he was going, pretty soon his own face would be the Hollywood Horror Show. And we'll be right back. Art has power to inspire us, to unite us, to give us solace and courage when we need it most. To create important stories, lasting memories, a sense of belonging. Your National Arts Centre serves as a catalyst in communities across Canada, empowering artists, inspiring audiences, and bringing us closer together. Learn more at nac.ca slash create in Canada.
Starting point is 00:23:08 Hey, you're a Canadian podcast listener, and that makes you important to us. We'd like to know more about you, what you think of this podcast, and the other podcasts you'd like to hear. So we've put together a super brief survey we'd like you to fill out, complete it, and we'll give you a chance to win one of three $100 Amazon gift cards. That way we can say thanks for your opinion. Just go to mypodcastsurvey.ca and have your say. That's mypodcastsurvey.ca. Following their win over the Rangers, Plants' nose started to heal. His stitches were removed, but his mask was not.
Starting point is 00:24:09 Plante disregarded his coach's order and continued to wear the mask, and the Canadians continued winning. Eight games, nine games, 12 games, 15, 17, 18 straight wins meant ToeBlake wasn't asking any questions. But come the 19th game, and first loss since donning the mask, Plants' grace period was over. Jacques Plante took the mask off.
Starting point is 00:24:42 The following game, the Canadians lost 3-0 to Detroit. So, Plante slid the mask back on. Within a couple months, Bill Burchmore decided to make Plante a new mask. He'd met with Plante, listened to his gripes, taken some notes, and come up with a second iteration. First and foremost, one that would provide better ventilation. This mask was made with fiberglass again, but fiberglass yarn instead of one solid sheet, giving the mask a cage-like appearance. It would become known as the pretzel mask, though some described it as looking like worms crawling across a goalie's face.
Starting point is 00:25:30 Plante debuted the pretzel mask in January of 1960. Plante said in order to keep the mask, he knew he had to keep winning. When he played well, no one said a word. When he let a goal in, everyone blamed the mask. To Blake, Plante's teammates, fans, reporters, everybody questioned his judgment. Hockey purists called Plante a coward. Fellow goalies criticized Plante. Gump-Worsley asked why, after all these years, a goalie would suddenly worry so much about injuries, adding that
Starting point is 00:26:14 wearing a mask would deprive fans of his beautiful face. Meanwhile, Boston Bruins goalie Eddie Johnston had his nose broken three times in ten days. One night after a game, a fan asked Plante if wearing a mask proved he was scared. And Plante replied, If you jumped out of a plane without a parachute, would that prove you were brave? The Montreal Canadiens beat the Toronto Maple Leafs 4-0 in the 1960 Stanley Cup Finals. A fifth consecutive Stanley Cup win for the Canadiens, a record that still stands today. Jacques Plante and his mask didn't let in a single goal. Plante was awarded his fifth straight trophy for top goalie in the NHL. In the 1961-62 season, Plante played goal in all 70 games.
Starting point is 00:27:23 The Canadians lost in the semis. But that year Plante was named NHL MVP, the first goalie to ever receive the honor. In 1965, Plante decided to motivate the masses. He started a goalie mask company. His first attempt at designing his own mask was a flop. One size fits all resin pretzel masks that fit awkwardly or cracked in cold arenas. But the Goli took a second shot at mask making. He launched a company called Fibrosport in 1970 and began making custom masks. Soon he was selling 8,000 masks per year. If a goalie would break their nose or fracture their jaw in a game, Plante would send them a fibrosport.
Starting point is 00:28:15 Then a plumber from Norwood, Massachusetts had an idea. Ernie Higgins was a superintendent whose son tended goal for Boston College. Higgins decided one day to make his son a bespoke mask, one that provided more coverage and stayed put even in a fast-paced game. Soon word spread around Boston about Higgins' new style of mask, and the Bruins came a-knockin'. The Higgins' mask was almost the lovechild of Birchmoor's original fiberglass mask and the pretzel mask. It was white and solid, but with more holes for ventilation. It also covered more than just the face, both tucking under the
Starting point is 00:29:06 chin and extending over the top of the head. The Higgins mask was such a hit, Ernie Higgins left his plumbing job and became a full-time mask maker at 54 years old. In 1967, Bruin Jerry Cheevers wore a Higgins mask for the first time. Then one day during practice, Cheevers took a shot off the mask. As authors Hines and Smith tell the story, Cheevers wasn't a fan of practice in the first place. So that particular day, he skated off the ice, stomped into the locker room, found a crispy Coke and a black marker, and while he sipped, Bruins trainer
Starting point is 00:29:53 John Frosty Forrestal sketched a stitch on his Higgins. He said, that'll show them how hurt you are. But when Bruins coach Harry Sindon all but dragged Cheevers back onto the ice to finish practice, it was his teammates who ended up in stitches. The black stitch across his white mask was cheeky and distinctive. Cheevers was later heard saying, the mask was a little too white for his liking anyway. White represented purity, and pure wasn't exactly how he saw himself. From that day on, every time Cheever's was puked in the mug, he would add another stitch. Cheever's mask would become the single most recognizable mask in hockey history.
Starting point is 00:30:49 It became the perfect emblem for the mask movement, an actual visual showing coaches, players, and fans just how often goalies were hit in the face. It also birthed a brand new phenomenon, the idea of personalizing one's mask. By the late 60s what were historically flat hockey stick blades became curved, making it easier to lift the puck off the ice. And the energy around goalie masks really began to shift. More and more goalies started masking up, but perhaps the most critical shift came from the top. Suddenly coaches and GMs started seeing masks not as a liability, but as protection of their investments. In fact, it was discovered that masks enhanced
Starting point is 00:31:41 a goalie's game by allowing them to drop to their knees more readily without fear of facial injury. Even New York Rangers GM Muzz Patrick, the man who declared no ranger would ever wear a mask, changed his tune, ordering all junior Rangers to wear masks and get used to it. The great Glenn Hall, inventor of the low-to-the-ice butterfly style of goaltending, was said to be the first of the Old Guard to adopt the mask. Hall was quoted as saying he wanted to be sure he could collect his paycheck personally, adding he didn't want it mailed to the Good
Starting point is 00:32:25 Samaritan Hospital or cemetery. Masks began to improve. The Higgins mask evolved into the birdcage, and by 1970, the majority of goalies in the NHL wore masks. Though there were still a few holdouts. Leafs legend Johnny Bauer, who had received over 200 stitches in his 12-year, four Stanley Cup-winning career, refused to adopt the mask until the final games of the NHL's last all-maskless game between Detroit and Minnesota. Andy Brown vs. Gump Worsley.
Starting point is 00:33:21 Supposedly Worsley was told life after hockey would simply be better with both eyes. And soon, the Gumper decided his face would be his mask no longer. By the 1973-1974 season, the mask's biggest critic slid on his own. Though, he was on record loathing every second of it until the day he retired. The last NHL goalie to go barefaced in a game would be Andy Brown in 1974. The following year, Jacques Plante stopped his final goal. And the goalie who was called a coward, a chicken, a Hollywood horror show, told Masks would hinder his game, make him less alert, that less fear would make him a worse player,
Starting point is 00:34:15 ridiculed by coaches, managers, players, journalists, and hockey fans everywhere, retired one of the greatest goalies in NHL history, who single-handedly changed the face of the game. Sport is an interesting endeavor. Nobody wants to lose. But if you look beneath the bravado of athletes, if you dive deeper than the press conferences, you discover the real fear. It's not losing. it's being humiliated. Boxers deal with this constantly. Any good fighter can deal with losing, the bigger fear is being humiliated in front of
Starting point is 00:35:16 a crowd. Goaltenders are also a breed apart. NHL goalies often say they have more in common with opposition goalies than they do with their own teammates. Jock Plante himself once said, How would you like a job where, when you made a mistake, a red light goes on and 18,000 people boo? That's life in the arena.
Starting point is 00:35:42 So when you look back at Plante' decision to wear a mask in an era where no one wore a mask, he risked massive humiliation. He was labeled a coward, not just by the press but by other goalies. The league was against it. Plants' coach was against it. His teammates were leery of losing because of it. But sometimes it's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. Plot knew he would be a better goaltender if he could lose the fear of being hit in the face by the puck. He knew it in his bones. So he was willing to endure humiliation because he knew it would be temporary. A lot of us fear that kind of career humiliation. We choose not to step into the arena for fear of being booed, or ignored, or worse, ridiculed.
Starting point is 00:36:39 But you have to love, honor, and obey your gut feelings. Your gut will never steer you wrong, because your gut only has your best interests at heart. It's not beholden to anyone else. That's why you have to listen to the quiet wind chime of your intuition, without debate. Because that's where the glory is. Today, goldies not only wear masks, they are a canvas for personal expression. Many of those masks are meant to be intimidating, which is ironic, as the League originally tried to intimidate Jacques Plante to drop his mask. But his gut wouldn't let him. If your gut keeps tugging at you,
Starting point is 00:37:29 if your intuition won't leave you alone, it's probably worth the shot. Never, ever give up. Shockplond, NHL career, 18 seasons, regular season games, 837. NHL Goalie of the Year wins, 7, most of any goaltender, NHL MVP wins. 1. All-star appearances. 8. Stanley Cups. 6. Inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame. 1978. Pucks to the face? Countless. The Rejection podcast is an Apostrophe Podcast production and is recorded in our Airstream mobile recording studio.
Starting point is 00:38:34 This series is written by me, Sydney O'Reilly. Production and research by Allison Pinches. Director Callie O'Reilly. Engineer Jeff Devine. Theme music by James Aitin, Jeremiah Pick, and Casey Pick. Tunes provided by APM Music, and We're Powered by ACAST. If you enjoyed this episode, you might also like rejecting Hailey Wickenheiser. Talk about a hockey pioneer. Wickenheiser was cut from teams just for being a girl.
Starting point is 00:39:02 She had to sleep in janitor's closets at hockey camps and change in storage rooms at competitions. She paved the way for female hockey players everywhere. But it was not an easy road, and her story is one of our favorites of the entire series. Skate on over to our archives. Follow us on socials at apostrophe pod. This series is executive produced and co-hosted by one Terry O'Reilly. See you next time. Here's a question.
Starting point is 00:39:41 How can you support Canada while you sleep? Well, you can do it by sleeping on a Douglas mattress, the mattress designed and manufactured right here in Canada. Douglas mattresses start at just $599 and come with a free comfort sleep bundle which includes two memory foam pillows, a waterproof mattress protector and an entire cotton sheet set. And how's this for risk-free Canadian convenience? You can enjoy a Douglas mattress for a 365-night in-home trial. You don't love it.
Starting point is 00:40:14 Douglas will pick up the mattress for free, donate it to a local charity, and refund you in full. No hassle, no risk. Douglas has been named Canada's best mattress by Canadian Living and is loved by 250,000 sound sleepers like me. Don't wait! Visit Douglas.ca slash under the influence to claim this exclusive offer for Canadian listeners with free shipping.
Starting point is 00:40:40 Sleep better knowing your mattress is made in Canada. Douglas Mattress. Canada's best mattress. Music Art has power to inspire us, to unite us, to give us solace and courage when we need it most. To create important stories, lasting memories, a sense of belonging. Your National Arts Centre serves as a catalyst in communities across Canada, empowering artists, inspiring audiences, and bringing us closer together.
Starting point is 00:41:19 Learn more at nac.ca slash create in Canada. Hey, you're a Canadian podcast listener, and that makes you important to us. We'd like to know more about you, what you think of this podcast, and the other podcasts you'd like to hear. So we've put together a super brief survey we'd like you to fill out, complete it, and we'll give you a chance to win one of three $100 Amazon gift cards. That way, we can say thanks for your opinion. Just go to mypodcastsurvey.ca and have your say.
Starting point is 00:41:49 That's mypodcastsurvey.ca.

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