Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly - The Beatlology Interviews: Producer Mark Hudson

Episode Date: October 13, 2024

Mark has produced nine albums for Ringo. Before that, he was part of the Hudson Brothers. They had hit songs and the Hudson Brothers Razzle Dazzle TV show made them teen idols in the 70s. Mark is a huge Beatles fan and collector - and has spent time with all four Beatles. He’s a great storyteller. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly. As you may know, we've been producing a lot of bonus episodes while under the influences on hiatus. They're called the Beatleology Interviews, where I talk to people who knew the Beatles, work with them, love them, and the authors who write about them. Well, the Beatleology Interviews have become a hit, so we are spinning it out to be a standalone podcast series. You've already heard conversations with people like actors Mark Hamill, Malcolm McDowell, and Beatles confidant Astrid Kershaw. But coming up, I talk to May Pang, who dated John Lennon in the mid-70s. I talk to double fantasy guitarist Earl Slick, Apple Records creative director John Kosh. I'll be talking to Jan Hayworth,

who designed the Sgt. Pepper album cover. Very cool. And I'll talk to singer Dion, who is one of only five people still alive who were on the Sgt. Pepper cover. And two of those people were Beatles. The stories they tell are amazing. So thank you for making this series such a success. And please, do me a favor, follow the Beatleology interviews on your podcast app. You don't even have to be a huge Beatles fan, you just have to love storytelling.

Subscribe now, and don't miss a single beat. This is an apostrophe podcast production. This is an apostrophe podcast production. Beatleology. I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle

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I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle I hear the beatle We talked to top collectors around the world in auction houses, as well as celebrity collectors and people who knew and worked with the Beatles. Those interviews stayed in my office drawer for 25 years.

So we thought it would be interesting to dust them off. Mark Hudson first gained fame as part of the Hudson Brothers, together with Brett Hudson and Bill Hudson. They had a hit television show in the early 70s, became teen idols, and the Hudson Brothers had several hit songs on the charts. After the group peaked, the brothers went their separate ways. Brett Hudson worked in television. Bill Hudson went on to produce movies, including Father of the Bride, starring Steve Martin.

And by the way, Bill is the father of Kate Hudson. And Mark went on to become an in-demand songwriter and record producer. He was the band leader for Joan Rivers' late-night talk show. In 2004, Sharon Osbourne recruited him to be the vocal coach for the British TV show The X Factor. And back in 1998, Mark produced Ringo Starr's solo album titled Vertical Man. Mark would go on to produce Ringo's records for the next 10 years. And that's how we came to meet Mark Hudson back in 1999.

He's a fun interview. He has spent time with all four Beatles and not only is he a Beatles superfan, he can imitate them all effortlessly as you will hear. Like most of North America, Mark Hudson first saw the Beatles that famous night on February 9th, 1964 on the Ed Sullivan Show.

When they came to do the Ed Sullivan Show, it truly was an event. I'm talking about like your grandmother was being coronated. There were people sitting in front of the TV, like we would wait to go see a concert live. There were kids waiting in front of the television and parents as well. Truly a historic moment. It was kind of odd when I produced Ringo's record, I was sort of reluctant to get too Beatle-ish in my question, even though I've known Ringo for a long time. It's really a sensitive area for him and for them

because it was their life. Mark first started collecting Beatles memorabilia right after he saw the Beatles in concert in his hometown of Portland, Oregon, on August 22, 1965. The Beatles performed twice that day, the only time the band would visit Oregon. They were paid $50,000 for each performance,

and ticket prices ranged from $4 to $6. And Mark held one of those tickets. After he saw them live, he was hooked. He told me they started collecting, especially, you know especially my Beatle collection started when I first saw him in concert. That was the 1965 tour

I think it was. I would have been 12, 13. Part of Mark's extensive Beatle collection comprises of outtakes from Beatle's recording sessions. I'll never forget when Jeff Lynne was doing his last solo album. I have all these vintage guitars, you know, I was still even collecting.

You know, I've only sold one guitar in my life, and I've been doing this really since about 1963, 64. And even though I was extremely young, my first record deal, I was 15 years old. I remember that I'd been collecting Beatles stuff for the longest time. And over the years, the stuff, because I got to know John during the last weekend, because Harry Nilsson was another really good friend. Yeah, I was producing Harry's last record, Time of Death. It was so weird, because I had collected this stuff,

and Yoko had given me outtakes of this and that. And over the years, I'd collected the stuff, and I made a tape of them doing Can't Buy Me Love and John writing Strawberry Fields when they were doing Help. And you know that part, Help me if you can, I'm feeling down. And won't you please?

And that guitar goes... You know, the groovy guitar line They were playing it live Like they were cutting the track And when it got to that part They stopped And then George would say In a sort of quiet voice

Like, I'll play that It's too fast John being the sort of cheerleader Come on, buddy It's not an argument It was sort of Come on, you can do it like this And then we go

Help me go again Okay, here we go Help me if you can, I'm feeling down. Won't you please do it? It's too fast, I'll put it on later. So I was talking to Jeff Lynn, who was borrowing my guitars, and I made him this tape. And he was like, over the moon. Oh, my gosh.

He's a Beatle freak as well. And he said, oh, this is great. Can I make a couple copies? I said, look, the whole thing for me is I don't believe in the bootlegging guys, even though I participated in it because I would be buying them and stuff. But I don't believe in guys making money off of stuff. Give this to you as my friend.

And if you want to make one, I'll just make one for Petty. I'll make one for George. And he named some people that were way out of my league. So he ended up making it. And everyone really, really enjoyed it. and he went to give George his copy. And when Jeff tells me the story, it's like he went to give George the copy of his thing. George says, great, Mark Hudson has this Beatles stuff that no one's ever heard, and it's like you guys laughing and yelling and doing all that stuff.

It's so great. I made you a copy. And George said, no, thanks. Why don't you want it, man? He goes, I was there. You don't think about that. You George said, no thanks. Why don't you want it, man? I was there. You don't think about that being fans and stuff. We never think about it, but that to them

was their life. So my Beatle question thing, when I got to hang out with John, he would say I had one Beatle question a day. So I would pick my moment and then say, she's well acquainted with the touch of a velvet hand like a lizard on a windowpane. That's so great. What does it mean? What?

It means nothing. It just comes off my mouth sounding good, man. The first record Mark Hudson ever bought wasn't a Beatles album. The first thing I ever got was Elvis Presley. And they were 45. It's kind of cool because I grew up without a dad, but I never suffered from the generation gap musically that parents have had with their children. So my mom and my uncles and all my Italian family would be walking around the house singing,

I'm all shook up. So it wasn't like I had to go do something bad, like I'd have to go to the record store and sneak one of those under the Johnny Mathis cut. My mom was buying us Elvis. But when it came to the Beatles, Mark ran out and bought the first Fab Four album issued in America. I obviously meet the Beatles as soon as I knew that came out.

At that point, I'd already had Beatle weeks, and they were made out of, like, you know, crepe paper. God forbid anyone was smoking, you'd go up like a torch. Mark started collecting Beatles memorabilia almost immediately before anyone knew that Beatles merch would become so valuable.

In those days, once again, the cool thing is the power of merchandising, we didn't really know so much like they do now. Now they make more money in merchandising than they do in playing the concert. But there was some stuff. I have some buttons. I still have my beetle wig from the concert. My mom, which I can't really get from her because she's the one that got it, but we still have our ticket stubs. That's pretty cool. It's all that kind of stuff. Most fans wouldn't know enough to keep all the tickets and the paper items and all the other small merchandise.

You would, except for the fact that you would end up happening to me in this case. There's a lot of my friends that have moved on. And I don't want to sound like Mr. Obsession, but Beatles became my reason for existing. They turned me on to music. I became a musician. I became a band. I became a Hudson brother, became a producer and I became a Hudson brother. I became a producer and a writer. And it's all directly related. Like on the Ringo record, I got to work with Paul

down at his house. He had heard the record and there was one of the songs called What in the World. When we wrote it, I'm a Beatle freak. So I was like, what in the world can I do? Living in a world without you to the minor chord very revolver and paul was gonna play bass and sing on it i was frightened enough the fact that i had to be there and be a producer as opposed to just hug him you know because part of me wanted to do like you don't understand it's because of you i am you know it's all that sort of stuff i mean not only that i was a producer and the producer has to have some kind of respect imagine if captain kirk was walking around going oh this is cute you know it doesn't work when you're captain kirk you gotta fly the plane and so i'm kind of respect. Imagine if Captain Kirk was walking around going, oh, he's so cute. You know,

it doesn't work when you're Captain Kirk. You got to fly the plane. And so I'm there trying to be a producer, but I'm working with all of these guys and George and George Martin. The only Beatle I was missing was John and he's somewhere inside of me. You know, his inspiration and all that stuff. It's like he is still there, just that he wasn't there physically. Mark owns a lot of interesting Beatles memorabilia, but he has one particular piece that he, well, let's say, found at Abbey

Road. You know, there's a story behind it. I'm admitting that I'm a thief, but it's a cool story. Stephen Tyler had sung on the song Drift Away. We did a sort of, not a duet, but a triplet with Alanis Morissette and Groovy Canadian and a dear friend, and so talented, it's scary. And Steven Tyler from Aerosmith is exactly the same.

He's one of my dearest friends. And these guys came down to sing Drift Away. Well, then a political thing sort of happened where Steven was no longer allowed to be on the record. So we had to replace Steven. And I was in London at the time rehearsing with Ringo and all this happened. So Ringo calls up his friend Tom Petty and says, Tom, you replace Steven. And I was in London at the time, rehearsing with Ringo and all this happened. So Ringo calls up his friend Tom Petty

and says, Tom, will you replay Steven? And even though it's a complete different guy, it's still cool and groovy. So we had to do it over the ISDN line, meaning we recorded Tom Petty from California while I was in London. So I book Abbey Road, of course. And then Ringo, during rehearsal, says to me and the band, he goes, you know, well, if you go to Studio 2, here's what you're going to do. Go down the steps

and go over to the corner. And he started saying where the Beatles recorded. He goes, in the far corner on the right, he goes, you know, it's a huge studio, but we did most of our work in this little corner. And then he started describing this, an exit sign. He goes, open those big doors and go in there and start yelling the stuff from Yellow Submarine. It'll sound just like it because that's where we did it. So he's saying all this great stuff. I'm tattooing this all over my heart. And we go there, and we're sitting in that room.

It's just the vibe of it is incredible. It's completely unchanged. The little harmonium organ is there, and the upright piano, like stuff that they played. And when played, all of it, you know, I was doing them all. Name it. I go, lady, lady. I was doing every song I could get it before they kicked me out, just to get the vibe.

And so I went over to that corner, and I just kind of sat there and hung out there, because I do believe in aura and energy and all that sort of stuff. And I was sitting there, and I looked in the corner. Now, the whole floor of Abbey Road is little planks. It's a little wooden, like hardwood floor. But it's not like long bricks floor.

Each piece is roughly around maybe an 8-inch plank. 8 inch by 2 inches. It's the thin hardwood floor. 8 inch by 2 inch. And there in the corner, you could see what they'd done now. They'd ripped up some of the floor so they could like cut a hole in the wall to put new tie lines and cords and all that sort of crap. So they could like record from one room to another. So they ripped the floor up and just had cords going through.

And I look in the corner and go, oh my God. And it's in that corner. I just thought, dear me, I got to get a piece of this. And I thought to myself, I've never stolen anything in my life. But there it was. My whole thing is I've never bought a piece of art that I've sold. I've sold one guitar in my life because I had to eat. Outside of that, every painting that I've ever gotten or anything,

I believe that art is to be passed on, not to be necessarily sold on, unless completely necessary. So to me, I'm thinking, this is not going to end up in Sotheby's, ever. They're going to throw it out. It's a piece of wood. But to me, that's where Ringo's drums were. That's where John's beetle boots were.

Wow. So now, that tiny piece of the Abbey Road flooring now hangs proudly on Mark's wall. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's now been framed. And the weird thing was, you know, my own guilt, I thought to myself that when we left, I looked at some members of the band,

and I said, gosh, I think I'm having asthma. My heart beating fast. And I took one of the guys and put his hand on my heart, but it was the wood. And he looked at me like he didn't know. So we get into the cab,

and I went, look what I did. And I showed him this little piece of wood, and they went, you bastard. Aren't you going to give us a sliver? And then all of a sudden, the guy says, well, look what I did. And I showed him this little piece of wood. And they went, you bastard. Aren't you going to give us a sliver? And then all of a sudden the guy says, well, I have a confession. He took a screw from the cord, you know, like a little pole. Like each guy started pulling out. I have some corrugated cardboard.

You know, if you were to look at this and just put it on a table, people would think that we were crazy. Now, the only difference is, is I had to make my amends, at least with a beetle. So I called up Ringo and said, Ringo, you know, forgive me for I have sinned. He goes, oh, what's the matter, Mark? What have you done? And I just said, after you told us where to go, I said, there was a piece of wood there. He goes, oh, good, I'll sign it. And that one happened. It was sort of like I got the blessing. You know, it kind of took the only valuable piece of Beatles memorabilia in the Hudson household.

Yes, I have other stuff. I have a copy of Abbey Road with the three remaining Beatles signing it. It was all done at separate times. When I was at Paul's house, he did it in Ringo's that I'd had from a long time ago, and George when he was doing music for... It's kind of weird. Never in my life did I figure that I would see them in concert, that I ever think that I would ever meet them or even know them. And during John's Lost Weekend, I really got to know him. By the way, when Lennon was separated from Yoko in the early 70s, he was dating May Pang and spending a lot of time in Los Angeles.

He always referred to that period as his Lost Weekend, which was a play off the 1945 movie Lost Weekend starring Ray Milland, where Milland's character goes through a four-day drinking binge. Mark was also with John Lennon the infamous night when a tipsy Lennon was thrown out of the Troubadour Club for heckling the Smothers Brothers. John was the first Beatle that my brothers and I got to hang out with him. And we had just signed to Elton John's Rocket Record.

Bernie Toppin was producing, and John was real friends with Elton. And at that point, the Beatles had broken up. It was around 1972, and I was at this party at Rocket Records, and someone said, John Lennon, there's a Beatle upstairs. And everyone in L.A. was being kind of cool. Like, oh, you know, they've broken up. Oh, there's a Beatle. And they're all trying to, like, be in their wine glasses with their cigarette holders.

And I went crazy. Ran upstairs and said, you don't understand something. You're the Walrus. But not really. I am. And because of you, I did this. And he's, like, looking at me like I was out of my mind. And he started laughing.

He goes, go on, sit down. Let's have a chat. And then I started talking to him. Then Elton came and he took a picture of the three of us with me in the middle. And as we were posing, I said, something's very wrong with this picture. And they both looked at me. I said, yeah, I know. It's me. John Lennon on one side, Elton John on the other. So the only thing wrong with the photograph is the fact that I was in it. But then because of that, it was sort of weird. With Harry Nilsson, who my brothers and I knew, and we'd already recorded a Harry Nilsson song in 1969,

and we kind of started hanging out at the Troubadour, and we started doing all that sort of stuff. And it was a wild time, but, you know, John was very sad then. It wasn't like he was, you know, finding his own manhood. He was in love with his wife and got booted out, probably rightfully so, and he wanted to go home. So therefore, he was drinking a bit much and being a bit rowdy. It was just because he was sad.

And he would say that. I'll never forget the one time Elton took us to a disco. And we're sitting down there, and all of a sudden, this song comes on. We're sitting at the table, and everyone's drinking. And John is doodling on this napkin. I looked at him, and I went, oh, God. Just say to Mark, love John, you know. But at that point in his life, it was weird.

He needed friends more than he needed fans. So I let that one go, and it's always sort of been this bittersweet thing. That's the one signature I didn't get. And even though I knew him and all that sort of stuff. But I think at that point, it would have destroyed the way that he liked my brothers and I. Like, we ended up doing our Saturday morning show from Toronto. Yep. The very popular Hudson's Brothers Razzle Dazzle show was produced in Toronto and ran on Saturday mornings from 1974 to 75.

It's the Hudson Brothers Razzle Dazzle show. Starring Bill, Mark, and Brent, the Hudson Brothers. Long before that, the brothers had been discovered by a promoter who had a contract with Chrysler. He got them a recording contract and named the band the New Yorkers, after the Chrysler automobile. The brothers released a single, As the New Yorkers, that reached number 30 on the charts. With the success of that record, they became an opening act for bands like The Who, The Supremes and Herman's Hermits. That led to a guest spot on the popular

Sonny and Cher Comedy Hour in 1974. The producers of the Sonny and Cher show were Canadians Chris Beard and Alan Bly, both of which had honed their skills at CBC. They thought the Hudson brothers were very funny on stage and asked them if they were interested in doing a TV show. The brothers said no, they were a rock and roll band. Beard offered them $5,000 a week and the brothers said, where do we sign? We love television.

The Hudson Brothers show began as a summer replacement for Sonny and Cher, running for five weeks in 1974. It was so popular, the brothers became teen idols, gracing the cover of magazines like Tiger Beat. They released several records and had four hits, the biggest of which was So You Are a Star. That wild success led to their own Saturday morning comedy program, The Hudson Brothers Razzle Dazzle Show. And here they are, the Hudson Brothers.

As I mentioned, it was filmed in Toronto, and that's why it co-starred Canadians like Billy Vann and Murray Langston. We're gonna razzle dazzle you. You'll never believe all the things we can do. We did the show at CSTO in Toronto, and John became a fan of it. Now, this was later on, like 1974, and we saw him at the Grammys in 75 or whatever. And he used to call us the Kings of Saturday Morning. Like, come on, hey, all the Kings of Saturday Morning, Like, come on, here you are, the Kings of Saturday Morning. Let's have a watch.

And we were sitting down in this disco, so to back up. And all of a sudden this song comes on. When will I see you again? Are we in love or just friends?

Is this the beginning? When will I see you again? And John went, this is my favorite song ever. Like, you couldn't believe you have all the Beatles. Hearing a Beatles say that was again. And John went, this is my favorite song ever. Like, you couldn't believe, you know, if all the Beatles, hearing a Beatles say that

was shocking. And he said, you know, John Hudson, let's go have a dance. And he'd get up and the three of my brothers, we'd go and we'd, like, dance on the dance floor.

And he had that great sense of fun, even though he was saddened by his situation. And the cool part about it is, like, because they truly were, you know, I could say Elvis to some extent, but the Beatles truly were my inspiration.

You know, when I started out as a drummer, I only can play like Ringo. And the last time we were together to do the Letterman Show, and there were two drum sets there because we did Back Off Boogaloo. He goes, come on, let's see what you've got. And I sat down. I said, look, you're only going to hear yourself. And it was so cool. There I was. And this is one of these things that I hold so true to my heart. And I go, I know every drum lick. And he goes, no, you don't. I go, I know every drum lick. He said,

you don't know me about this. And I said, okay, play one. And he went, I said, it's beginning to glass onion. And he kind of looked at me real quick. Well, I said, oh, please, a little help from my friends. He looked at me again. And then he went like, I said, that's the end of rain. And he looked at me again, and then he went like, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. He said, that's the end of rain. And he looked at me and said, all right. And he took his drumsticks, and he signed them, and gave them to me, and said, here, just don't let them show up on Sotheby's.

And they get very offended about stuff that belonged to them. A lot of Beatles-owned merchandise shows up on auction sites to this day. And if you've ever wondered how it gets there, Ringo has a story. One time Ringo was watching some show or something, and he told this story that he looked at the Sotheby's auction and he saw his pants. Then he called up and he goes, excuse me, would you like to make a bid? He goes, no, those are my pants.

No, no, they're at auction now. He goes, no, no, you don't understand. Those are my pants. Yeah, I want my pants. And to him, those are a pair of his pants that the guy has like took from him. He also said one of the early Beatle drum covers that said the Beatles wouldn't actually have the antennas coming out of it showed up at auction. The earliest logo of the Beatles on Ringo's bass drum wasn't the famous drop T logo, but rather it had the words The Beatles with two insect antenna popping out of the B in Beatles

to play off the inspiration for the band's name, which was Buddy Holly and the Crickets. And he goes, you know, I never gave that to anyone. The thing is, what everybody does now

is they all say John gave it to him. Because then there's no way he could have passed away. So they have this sort of thing about that. And probably rightfully so. And we'll be right back. Trivia Question. Who was the last Beatle to score a number one solo hit, with, Whatever Gets You Through the Night, in 1974. By that time, Paul had three number ones, and George and Ringo each had two. Because Mark Hudson has such an interesting Beatles collection, we asked him what his most prized Beatle collectible was.

There's actually a couple of things. The Abbey Road thing is a lot to me because it was so personalized. Like, Paul, the note that he wrote me because it was so personalized. Like Paul, the note that he wrote was because of the music that I'd done. And that was like really, really cherished to me. I have a lithograph of the lyrics to Revolution. There's a few things. In fact, Bob Gruen, the guy who took all the pictures of John, he actually did an art show that I got invited to in Washington, D.C., and I got the infamous John on the grass at the Statue of Liberty, giving the peace sign. But it's the original. It's not a copy. It's like

he took it to one-hour photo, and I got it. But it's big. Ringo sends me faxes all the times of cartoons and stuff like that. That almost means as much to me as other prized possessions. In the album, there's this huge piece of artwork, this big poster with all these little squares with all these colors and everybody's picture on it. But the biggest joy for me was I produced a Beatle. Give me a break. In fact, on this Storytellers record, I'm on the cover. The Ringo Starr Storytellers album was recorded for the VH1 Storytellers TV series, where artists perform live in an intimate setting and tell the stories behind their hits.

Ringo and Mark recorded that album in 1998. You see Ringo and you see me, there I am. And sometimes when I look at that, I go back and think to myself, when I was this young guy starting out, pretending I was John, would I ever think that I would be turning around and my drummer would be Ringo? While Mark loved working with Ringo, it was another Beatle who originally influenced him. John. John was most inspirational. I mean, I loved them all. But I think John had a thing to him where there was sort of like angst.

He had humor. He really was rock and roll. But then again, with Paul, I loved the melodic. I hear... Breaking each day of the year, changing my... By the way, I can imitate. He was so cool. Ringo would come back and hear the background and say, I don't need the elbows, I've got you. was so cool. Ringo would come back and hear the background and say, I don't need the old ones, I've got you. And it's only because I broke them down.

I said to Ringo that I probably know their music better than they do. I could break it down and say, when you did this on that, and they said they really don't remember because they were just playing. Can I ask you something, Mark? Just on that very subject, you were saying that, you know, how the Beatles, that was their lives, so the memorabilia is probably not that important to them because that was just them doing their thing.

Did you notice when you were at Ringo's house or at Paul's studio, is there any collectibles hanging around that were meaningful to them? Ringo has a Sgt. Pepper outfit. He has his first gold record. And they all do. It's like, you know, when they work with Paul and stuff, he goes like, you know, the coolest thing, we sang this song, and here I am.

And I'd always pretend that my brother brett was paul and i was john and this time i'm singing background i'm doing the lower lennon part and i look over and 15 inches away from me is paul you know what i mean it's just like surreal to me and there's one time in song la-di-da before the guitar solo we were doing this and paul went up to the microphone to do one of those McCartney sort of ad-lib. He walked up to the mic, and I don't know what it was, God or the Spirit of John came through me. And at the same time, I sang the exact same harmony part underneath him. And he actually stopped and looked at me. They stopped taping.

We had to take a break. He had this look on his face that was like, well, and I don't know what it was. It's just like he walked up to do this ad-lib and I ad-libbed underneath him as if we were in the same band for 20 years.

Which in one way we probably were because that's how I felt or we all felt. When Mark was working at Paul McCartney's studio in England, he took Mark on a little tour.

It was so weird because when you watch the dynamic of them in the room together, it was like a hard day's night with crow's feet. Because their relationship is still the same. They were still like, hey, thanks. Come on, hey, you bastard. We sang the song and Paul kind of looked at Ringo and said, you know, Rich, it's kind of beatilish. And Ringo got insecure and goes, I know, I told Mark it was kind of Beatle-ish. And then Paul stopped and goes, yeah, but you're a freaking Beatle. And everybody starts laughing. And then Paul looks at me, goes, you're a Beatle freak, aren't you, man? I went, yeah. He goes, come on, I'll give you the

private tour. Take me on this studio. He goes, here, let's tune up. And he gives me John's acoustic Gibson and he puts on his Hoffner. And I'm just thinking to myself, please, someone take a picture, please. And then he goes, here's the Mellotron. We walk over to the Mellotron and he plays the beginning to Strawberry Field. And we sang a bit of it together. And then he goes over to us and he has the tubular bells that were on Penny Lane. And he's starting to go, and this is the harpsichord that was on Because and In My Life. Then you look at some stuff on the wall, there's like an early Beatle picture, because that's my favorite one. It was an earlier photograph,

I would probably think it was around the 65, but I only judged them by their hair. It looked like the help period. That was probably just pre-Revolver when they really started getting so musical, it was frightening. There's stuff around like an odd tapestry on the wall. He goes, I had that one in my apartment in London.

They have stuff like that that's around. Ringo has, like, their first German record, you know, the German version. They've got odd stuff, but, you know, it's weird because I've worked with so many acts now, from Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, to Celine Dion. You can see that so many other people have so much of themselves around them.

And, you know, what the cool thing is, and no one really believes this, is that they really were just four guys in a rock and roll band. And even though they were the biggest thing ever, they still sort of have that mentality. Very grounded, very sort of like we just were guys in a van playing our music. You think about how they changed the world. I've seen a lot of other guys that have had a lot more attitude that have sold a lot less records. For Ringel's Vertical Man album, which Mark produced, he chose to record it in his small studio, with all the musicians standing shoulder to shoulder, mirroring the way the Beatles used to record, standing close together, squeezed into a corner of Studio 2 at Abbey Road. And the whole thing was working with Ringo over the whole period of making the record,

because we made it in my office, just this little room. He brings the original cymbals. There's a cymbal and a hi-hat that was on all the Beatle records that he brings, and he plays them when he plays them as a record. And you see like little marks that George had written, something, there's a thing there with George Martin, where they've done stuff like play it here, do it there, hit it here. And Paul wrote something to him, Love You Rich,

and just like a band would do. On Vertical Man, Ringo does a cover version of Love Me Do. He has an odd history with that first Beatles single. When the Beatles recorded the song originally in 1962, George Martin didn't like Ringo's drumming, so he brought in a session drummer instead, and Ringo wasn't happy about it. Ringo said he was crushed.

In those days, it wasn't about lawyers, and none of us knew about lawyers and publishing and that. We had this piece of vinyl that to us was like what we had dreamed of all of our lives and that to him

was a big thing. And there he is saying that he couldn't play on it. Just joined the band that he loved. You know, he always said that

even when he was with Rory and stuff, he goes in Hamburg, he goes, I'd always go watch the Beatles because I loved them. And that's really what it was. So it was interesting that Ringo chose to re-record Love Me Do.

It was actually Ringo's idea. It was the one Beatles song he didn't get to play on. I mean, he played on the album version, but not on the single. And he said, Falk, what do you think about us doing Love Me Do? And I thought he was joking. I went, really? And he went, yeah, it's the one song I never got to play on. He goes, you know, now I'll show the bastards.

And I said, well, yeah. He goes, then he said, B, I kind of want to do it like this. And he sat down at the drum and started playing that beat. And then we fell into, I got my Hoffner bass, and we fell into place. And then I called up Steven Tyler, who was in Amsterdam at the time, and I said, hey, Steven, we're recutting Love Me Do. And he went, oh, that's great. I said, want to come play the harmonica? He said, hey, Stephen, we're recutting Love Me Do. And he went, ooh, that's great. They said, want to come and play

the harmonica? He goes, when? Friday. He got on a plane and flew to do the harmonica. And the cool thing is, there's a couple jam sessions that I actually possess now where we did Come Together. We did a version of You Can't Do That with him singing it. And a great one of What Goes

On. What goes on in my heart. A lot of that's, once again, that's just my collection, but I'm very proud of the record. It was a big thing for me. You know, I wanted to surround him. He's a Beatle. And I thought that some of the records he was making later sort of got away from what he was. This was all done with him sitting in a room playing the drums with three guys. And that's where he felt the most comfortable. There were a lot of superstars who sang on Ringo's Vertical Man record, and Mark tells us

they were all huge, huge Beatles fans. I mean, there wasn't anyone, because everyone came to my studio to work. Alanis was there. In fact, she loved it so much she wanted to come back.

And she came back and sang on two other songs. And everyone wanted a picture behind his drums. I started charging $5 to go sit there. Because there was that pearl, the black and white pearl kit. I just would sit in there. And I swear to God, everybody that was there said, you've only taken a picture. And there's Brian Wilson.

There's Alanis behind it. And there's Steven Tyler and Scott Whelan from Stone Temple Pilots. I mean, everybody wanted to sit behind this kit. And it was kind of cute because when Brian Wilson came and sang, he goes, Ringo, I love this song. Can I get a copy? And Ringo was very protective and went, no, I'll send you one. I'll give you this instead.

And, you know, he signed a letter. Everyone, who wouldn't? Listen, most of the people that are huge, you know, Steven Tyler is a Beatle freak. They all are. And most of them don't admit it. They're are. And most of them don't admit it. They're lying. As they say, there are rock stars and then there are the Beatles.

We asked Mark if Ringo was aware of the effect he has on a room. You know, it's weird because in one way he does and then it's like he knows he's a Beatle. And when we went to the record store, one time he goes, come on, let's go get a cold across the street because there's a huge record store across the street from my studio. Let's go get a plug. And he knew that when he walked in there, it was like one of those bad commercials when everything stopped.

It was virtually like a pin could drop and then he just was like swamped. And then there's other times when we got into a van, he goes, oh, this is great. I remember when we used to lay in the van and we had to stack on top of each other so that we could stay warm. And he started telling all these

stories and he would forget the fact that he was this thing. I don't know who I was sitting down with, but writing, you know, because I also songwriting. I was either writing with a new artist or maybe Bon Jovi or someone. I'm sitting in my studio playing and all of a sudden the phone rings and I don't get it when I'm in the middle of, like, writing a middle eight. And all of a sudden I hear this voice.

Hello, peace, love, peace, love. Hello, Mark. It's Ring calling from London. Will you give me a call, you bastard? And he starts doing his jokes and I got Beatle on my answering machine. So, you know, hello, Mark, we're having a little soiree. And if you'd like to come with your girlfriend, Barbara, come over, you bastard. You got Beatle on my answering machine. One time during the Christmas time when we were doing Love Me Do, I actually used him as my outgoing message. I save stuff because I do. So I have the answering machines and him going, you know,

you know, Monica, I'll twirl a thank you if I'm wrong on my heart for making the record. I mean, I've never in my life would I even imagine that. And he loved sitting in a room with four guys and playing.

And that's really how we did it. He would always say, you know, the biggest compliment. One time he said that he thought that I played acoustic guitar like John. He goes, you know, you have no sense of time, but you play like it's your last day on the planet. And he goes, that's really, really cool. And I think that he said, you know, when we did the White Album, he goes, sometimes we did stuff like Your Blues and Helter Skelter was cut in a little space just like what we did. Speaking of great albums, we were curious to know what Mark's favorite Beatle album was. That's such a tough call for me because, you know, it's weird because I always

refer to Revolver because I think that was the first one when they really started like, keeping an eye on the world going by my window. I'm only sleeping, and it just, tax man, and here, there, and everywhere. It just became this, like, such a huge jump for me. But then again, then all of a sudden, I'll be sitting there going,

wow, I think that was my favorite. Then I go, Reverse Soul, with Norwegian Wood, and all the acoustic guitars, and it's only love, and that is all. Give me a break.

But, you know, it's so weird. I love the White Album, because I think the White Album, to me, really shows them as a songwriting band. They sort of just sat there and could go from Helter Skelter to Goodnight or Honey Pie to Savoy Truffle. That, to me, they sounded more like a band band where the polish wasn't really on. But then again, you know, Jeff Emmerich, who mixed the Ring record. He played me a version of Sgt. Pepper that blew me away,

that stands up to anything I've ever heard present day, sonically. It was that good. You know, it just blows your mind. Mark became a very in-demand songwriter and producer, working, as he said, with artists like Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, Alanis Morissette, and Celine Dion, to name a few. But it wasn't always that way. I spent a lot of my life with nobody calling me. Then when I wrote Living on the Edge and

you win a Grammy, you become a genius in your own pants. Living on the Edge won a Grammy for Aerosmith in 1993. You know, the Hudson Brothers sort of became a negative because we did television, and at that point, television ruined your musical career. In an interview, Mark's brother Brett said that because the Hudson Brothers were so funny on TV, people stopped taking their music seriously, even though they were serious musicians. The humor got in the way of the music. It was a great experience because it was fun.

It was the 70s. and I mean before disco. So it still had that rock and roll big thing to it. We were on television. We were a family. So therefore we were a bit more grounded than a lot of other bands. It's tough to break up a family. I look back at it really as fun. It was musically frustrating because I thought we were doing really, really good music that no one listened to because the comedy got in the way of what we were doing musically.

And I think that that was sort of an unfortunate that I kind of look back at. But I sort of made up for lost time now. So it was one of those things where I never quit. And because I didn't quit, it seems to be paying off. And now, finally in my life, if nothing else, I have Beatle credibility. You know, all my friends say to me, well, Martin, now you've done it. Your whole career can be over with and you can like die a happy man. And so, you know, with that, I'm not going to stop.

I still love doing what I'm doing. That's the cool part. Years later, I was on a flight from Los Angeles flying back to Toronto and found myself sitting across from Mark Hudson. He was flying to Toronto to be a guest at the Canadian Music Week event. We had a nice long chat. It was nice to see him in person. He was still producing Ringo's records at the time and would eventually go on to produce a total of nine albums

and over 80 songs with Ringo. He and Ringo even had a record label together for a couple of years. Recently, I was reading that the Hudson brothers were in the early stages of planning a reunion show. This time, they say, the humor won't get in the way. I'm Terry O'Reilly. This special bonus episode was recorded in the Terrastream Mobile Recording Studio. Director, Callie O'Reilly.

Producer, Debbie O'Reilly. Chief sound engineer, Jeff Devine. Tunes provided by APM Music. Follow me on social at Terry O'Influence. This podcast is powered by ACAST. And stay tuned for more Beatles interviews coming up. There you are, alone in your car, waiting at a red light.

Suddenly, there she is, pressed against your window, holding a homemade cardboard sign. Can you really tell what it says about her? Don't let homelessness assumptions get in the way of homelessness solutions. Go to canadacandoit.ca. Help the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness.