We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Akon: The Truth About My Multiple Wives & The Real Cost of Fame

Episode Date: May 19, 2026

Akon reflects on the life behind some of the biggest songs of the 2000s, and the choices, controversies and turning points that shaped him long before global fame. He opens up about growing up between Senegal and the US, the criminal world he entered before music, and the prison sentence that he believes saved his life. Akon shares how ‘Locked Up’ began behind bars, why music became his way out, and how he learned to turn pain, business instinct and controversy into worldwide success. The conversation also explores his views on polyamory, having multiple wives, and why he believes honesty, rules and communication are essential in that dynamic. He also reflects on his friendship with Michael Jackson, the side of him the public rarely saw, and the questions he still has about his passing. Akon looks back on the moments that made him, the mistakes that nearly ended him, and the legacy he is still trying to build. Akon, We Need To Talk Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Akon here: https://www.instagram.com/akon/ https://www.tiktok.com/@akon (00:00) Intro (01:38) Akon Addresses The Hamster Ball (06:29) Touring With Ne-Yo (07:52) Why Akon’s Audience Isn’t Who You’d Expect (15:11) Opening The Door For Artists Like Wizkid (20:15) Every Song Had To Be Ringtone Friendly (22:26) Mr Lonely Changed Everything (26:53) The Blackout That Changed Akon’s Purpose (30:53) ID Mobile Ad (33:06) Akon’s Relationship With Michael Jackson (45:20) Growing Up Between Senegal And America (48:13) Selling Stolen Cars To Fund Music Career (55:50) How Jail Changed Akon’s Life Forever (01:04:58) Huel Ad (01:06:06) What Still Pains Akon Today? (01:08:12) “I Say Ignorant Things On Purpose” (01:11:32) What Is Akon’s Real Name? (01:16:43) Akon Explains His Polyamorous Life (01:32:22) Akon Talks About His New Album (01:36:46) Most Memorable Conversation (01:42:32) Paul’s Takeaways Sponsored by: iD Mobile: Ditch the texts and ‘Make it a Call’ - your voice is more powerful than you thinkhttps://www.idmobile.co.uk/make-it-a-call?affiliate=marketing%7CYouTube_Display%7CMakeItACall_Brand&utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=Display&utm_campaign=MakeItACall&utm_content=Brand Huel - http://Huel.com/WNTT with code WNTT for £10 off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You believe in polyamory. So then Acon, can you say, how many wives do you have? I'm serious. Yo, because I like you and you are my brother. Not only are you a musician, artist, but also a businessman. I just wanted to be rich. But the problem is, popularity comes with a cost. Like Michael Jackson is my boy.

But I just feel like there's a lot of holes on the explanation of his death. So as your power and influence grows, do you ever fear a threat against your life? I'll go with some Richard Dye trying, literally. It was stealing cars. Yeah, and I'm in jail. That's what inspired me to do this, man.

Because I feel like this ain't the life I would live. When I was in there, I would just write on strength. So now, every time a guard would walk past, we would sing the song out together. Locked up, they won't let me out. Bitch, they won't let me out a lot. That's when I realized, okay, music is just a vehicle for me to do. what I need to do.

So I didn't know we would get into this topic. Right. But we got it. I mean, we're here. We're here. You need to talk. I'm giving you my words today. You'll be the one I give the exclusive to me.

Hey there. Before we begin the episode, I just want to say, thank you for choosing we need to talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life. And I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast. Now, do you know what I think the first thing that I heard about you and Neo on tour was I saw clips.

You know what I saw clips of? Oh, yeah, me and the past the bar. You know, I've been doing that since 2008. No, I didn't know it. I've been doing it since 2008, man. But back then there was no social media. There was none of that. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And it was interesting because it really got famous. is when I did it in Africa. Okay. Because for the first time, I was able to perform in the stadiums in Africa, and I was like, oh, this is the perfect, like the perfect tool. Because before, I would just crowd surf. I'd jump off the top speaker right into the audience, and it catch me, throw me around.

But then, you know, that was just too risky. People would get hurt. So then I got sued a few times. Well, more than a few times. Every time I did a show, I was damn there buying somebody a house. Oh, really? I got to figure something else out. Okay.

And that's how that came by. I said, okay, this is the way I can go into the crowd. is mad safe and it's an attraction. Yes. But is it safe, though? Yeah, super, super safe. Is it? Because honestly, when I see it, you look like you're like bouncing.

Oh, bro, I'm like a little kid, like literally. Like, I'm literally in a plastic ball. That surrounding is the far as I go. I don't go farther. So even if they were to drop me on the floor, I'm on my feet. Or if I'm not, the ball going to hit the ground first, and then I'm right behind it. You feel what I'm saying?

So it's like the distance from me into the floor is like, you know, less than a foot. And then I guess for the fans, they get an opportunity. It's amazing. And they're up as close as they can ever get. Yeah. They get a nice little photo in the process and then the mix of all the fun and the craziness.

Yes, it's really dope. It's really dope. So then on tour, because you've been on tour many times throughout your career, now what are the songs that you most like to perform? Man, I love all my songs, bro. Like, when I wrote them, they was all experienced-based songs. So they all mean something different.

It's not like a favorite. It's all like a meaning. You know what I mean? Like every song has a specific feeling that it gives you a specific place in your heart that actually, you know, you can say reside. It's like, it's hard to say, okay, which is my favorite song? Okay. If it makes sense. All right, so then let me hit you with a tougher question then is, which song carries almost the most pain with it?

Uh, uh, uh, was a lot of those. The first album was all paying. Was it? Was it? I mean, outside of Bonanza? Yeah. That was the, every whole album was pain. But, I mean, when you look at locked up, that was a wake-up moment.

I think that record is what saved my life in general, because hadn't I gotten locked up, I would never wrote it. You know, Mr. Lonely, a lot of pain in that one. Trouble Nobody. Yeah, a lot of them is mainly earlier songs, to be honest, the first album. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because, yeah, when you start going into all of those records, Ghetto, records ghetto, like it's all paid.

You know what I mean? Okay. And when you perform it, do you go back to that moment? Do you put yourself in that same place? No, not actually in that place, but it actually reminds me how far I come. Like, what's crazy is my first show in Dublin on this tour, I literally started, I had my glasses on, the audience and seeing them, but when I, when I sang ghetto, I was literally crying behind my glasses.

Because it was just surreal for me. Like, because I was like, damn, I'm like, damn, like, think 20 years later, I'm here not only singing this song, but I got all these white folks feeling my pain. Yes. Hearing it, understanding it from a perspective in which they came from that I may not even understand. Right. But it's still the same vibe of what we go through as a people to struggle through certain things to get there. Yes.

You know what I mean? So it was just, it was just wild because I remember when I wrote the song, I didn't know where my life was heading. I didn't know which direction I was going. I just wanted to be rich. I didn't know how, and I didn't care. It was like... That was the focus.

That was the focus. Just the money. Like, get rich and die trying literally. You know what I said? It was like, man. So I knew what it was... I felt, I understood, man, it seemed like everything hit me at that, like, hit me. And it happens a lot of time when I perform records like, freedom.

Yes. Or ghetto or Mama Africa, like, really records that's cultured. You know, I choke up literally on stage, but I play it off like ain't anything going on. See, I didn't realize that you cried on stage. or that you do cry on stage, you feel the emotion. Oh, yeah, some songs, I'd be dead crying, but I'd be sweating so hard. You don't even, you don't know if it's a tear,

or if it's a, or if it's a, or. You just see fluid. You just see, you're like, man, that boy's sweating. Well, yeah, that happens a lot. Yeah. Yeah, it happens a lot. All right, so then sharing the stage with Nia, you talked about how you two,

you knew you had to be on tour together. Right. But how special is it to you to share the stage with you? No, that's amazing because we kind of realize just how different our paths are. Like a lot of times you actually think that you're, everybody share the same pain and the paths are very similar. And when I say path, I mean musically, right? Okay.

So Neil has a different set list of mine. Mine is, you know, stems from like reality. His is almost like, there's reality at it, but it's more like love and romance. Mine is like reality, pain, struggles. So it's like two opposites worlds. But then when we get to the overcoming of what our lives are, you can hear the difference in the music

because the music gets more uptempo, gets more dance-driven, it gets more celebratory. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Yes. He starts off making love. I start off talking about pain. You know what I'm saying?

You know, he ends up partying and I end up fiesta. You know what I mean? So it's like, but they both. You could tell like it feels like life, and you can, like, both sides can feel. The fellas understand, the women understand, the elders understand, the kids are enjoying. So it's like, it's literally from 7 to 70

that demo. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's not only 7 to 70, but you were talking about in Dublin, you saw, you know, mostly white audience. Yeah. It spans, race, ethnicity.

You probably see, my shows, which is crazy. the only time I actually see black people in my audience is when I'm in Africa. Are you serious? Not even in the States. In the States? Atlanta. It's Southern Pepper.

D.C. It don't matter where I go. Really? Whether I'm in America, Europe, like, even in the Middle East, it's just like, it's all Caucasians. If I do see a few Africans in the building, they make sure I see them

because they had the flags up. And I can't miss them because there's nothing of white people there. You know what, you know, that does shock me. Yeah. You know, because I was talking to my wife about you coming in, and I was saying, you know, I think that, like, we were debating what has made you so iconic, right? And I think a lot of people point to your voice. They talk about the moment you hear, like you know.

Yeah, that's own. That's definitely got you know what I'm saying. A lot of people talk, I think, about your ability to create hooks. Like, I think you're one of the most. masterful people ever, you know, in terms of a hook. Right. But I also think what you've done that not a lot of people talk about is, is you've been able to take pain. You've been able to take a story that traditionally is centered in black culture and make it accessible to everybody. Right.

And that, to me, I think, is your special story. No, it is. Because that's always been my focus. Oh. I was like, okay, how can I tell this story in a way to where every nationality, no matter where you're, from you can understand it. Because one thing I do know is that we're all going through something, right? We're all going through the same thing just in different directions.

Or is it being translated differently or culturally it feels like you're going through something different, but this is the exact same thing. Right. You understand what I'm saying? Right. Like it's no different, no matter how you see it, because the pain, you're going to feel it regardless of how it's translated to you. That's the one thing that we all have in common.

We know how that feels. Yes. Yeah. But then, but though, to not have, say, more black representation in your audience, how does it feel? And let me even throw this out is, so I don't know if you heard of Neville Garrick. That name sounds really familiar. He was Bob Marley's creative director.

And so Neville is someone I was able to meet. He passed away, unfortunately, a few years ago. Of cancer, right? Yeah. He was living in DR. Yeah, yeah. I hung out with him. Oh, did you?

Yeah. I know exactly who you're talking about. So Neville, he changed my life. I'm bad with names, by the way, but faces, I'd never forget. But when you said that, I know exactly, because, man, we spent like two weeks together. Incredible. No, unbelievable. Unbelievable, right?

And I remember talking to him about, he would tell me about Bob Marley shows. Right. And he said, same thing. Same thing. And I said, well, how do you feel? Like, how did Bob feel about that? He said, he felt like Bob felt a certain way about it. So how do you, because he wanted to see more.

of, you know, his community represented at his shows. Right, right, right, right. So how do you feel not having more black representation at your show? Oh, I felt like I made it. And like, nigger, you made it. All right, tell me how you really feel that. No, that's how I really feel. Because you got to think, black people don't want to hear the same story

that they're actually going through right now. Like, they're actually living the story I'm telling. Right. So it's a difference. So me, the more of a group of people or a group of a culture that I felt haven't experienced what we're experiencing is what I want to see out there. Because I need that story to be told. I need them to understand the position that we hold the reason why is so much trauma, the reason why is so much anger, the reason why it's so much divide. Like we as black people, we have a certain level of like our characteristics and mindset.

is flawed to other cultures and they don't understand why. We understand it, so it's not flawed to us. But when you compare it to other cultures' mindset, it's completely flawed. Because they understand, okay, why they can't come together and do anything? Why every time a group of them come together,

something has to go wrong? Or why is it that when we do something, it's a discrimination when they're not at it or they're not involved or not mentioned? Because our whole life, we've been, you can say, left out. Okay. If you can use that word,

I don't know if that's the right analogy, but we just believe that we contribute so much that we don't get credit for. We contribute so much that we're not invited when the celebration happens. Like we've invented countless amount of technology. We've contributed to countless amount of culture, sports, fashion, storytelling,

like, you name it, history. Right. But we, as a people, we've never took the time because of the mindset of how the history of pattern just continued moving forward that we never had a chance to fix to come together to maximize on it. We're so busy like still dwelling on the pain, not celebrating it but complaining about it versus, okay, how do we fix it? How do we bring it together and actually maximize it to where we're all benefiting from it? Well, all right, so I didn't know we would get into this topic. Right. But we got it.

I mean, we're here. We're here. It's a conversation. Yeah, let's, we need to talk. We're going to pick a side of. We need to bring them in. Just hold the sign up. All right, so my question on this is, I hear you in terms of mindset for some.

Right. But the way I always look at it is I look at it as systems. Right. Especially systems in the West, first systems and say Africa. Right. You know, especially sub-Saharan Africa. Right. So do you think, and we don't have to go too deep in it,

but I'm just curious, is how much of it you think is mindset versus system versus structure? It's all mindset, because the mindset is what creates the system. Okay. Right? So if you come with a flawed mindset, your system's going to be flawed. If you come with a struggling mindset, your system's going to struggle. You know, if you come with a weak mindset, your system is going to be weak.

So ultimately, because our mindset hasn't been mature enough to understand that unity is the power and is the strength and the muscle that we need to create a successful system. Until we come together, that system will never exist. Okay. Right? Because think about it. In order for a system to work, there's so many different departments, but all them departments have to see eye to eye. They all have to connect. They all have to unite for it to be a strong system. Yes. But you got your system. I got my system. My homie got his system. My sister got his system. You know, Uncle Doug got his system. Cuzzle got his system. But none of them's talking to each other. They're all competing

with each other. And because of the mindset of it, and ultimately because of how the systems were created against us, and we became a part of that system. Not understanding it, to create our own, we said no, how do I benefit and maximize the system

that I'm in? Because I can't change the system. Because we've been taught that we can't change the system when we really can. Yes. Is this why you, I feel like there's a 10-year period where you stepped outside of the states, you went to West Africa. A hundred percent. That's why you went. A thousand percent. Because Africa had this

black market system of music. We got all this talent, but nobody knows about it but the locals. Like at what point are we going to inject ourselves into a system that allows our music to be spread globally? Yeah. Right? So, and I love using Nigeria as a perfect example because Nigeria had unlimited talent, unlimited population. Yes, yes. And unlimited, like, man, the Nigeria is the smartest people on the planet. I mean, next to the Jamaicans. No, I mean, y'all Jamaicans.

No, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you trace any Jamaican, it's going back to Nigeria. Yeah, yeah, it's the same thing. They DNA goes right back to Nigeria. I don't know, no African they ain't got a Nigerian DNA somewhere lacking, you know. True. But just the way they, man, they're just so brilliant. mentally. But it's because it's so much of competition within that system itself,

no one took the time to say, okay, well, let me create an opportunity for who you may even deem your competitor to open the door for them because they may open the door for you. Like I was in a position where I wasn't looking to compete with my brothers and sisters. I needed them to be where I was at because I'm tired of being there by myself. And I know that there's people out there that sings and runs. circles around me. They exist in Africa. My tone is just the one you heard, but there's more like me. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. And that was my goal. My goal was to make sure that everybody understood that I'm just one of almost two billion Africans that actually have some kind of

talent that could be showcased to the rest of the world. So whatever opportunity, whatever platform I had to actually open the door for the rest of my brothers and sisters to get noticed, I gave it. Yeah. You know? I mean, and you did. I think. that I mean in terms of record sales global impact I mean Whiz Kid has to be top one percent oh 100 percent in that and as a kid he was that it was crazy he was a kid how old was he when you met him I want to I would want to say that was like 14 maybe 15 wow okay he was a kid no he was a kid yeah like that's why they called him whiz kid he was a wizard literally at that age like he was writing for other

artists including Bank of W okay you know the kid was a He's brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. And so you, do you, I mean, are you, I mean, with humbly, right. Do you believe that you were one of the key players to unlocking Afro beats to the world? I think everybody plays their role, right?

I think oftentimes when a question like that is asked is really, only the people can ask that for you. You know, I know I played a huge contributionist to helping to showcase African talent. whether it's Afrobeat or I'm a piano or Afrohouse, anything that's culturally, I think has value, I want to be able to maximize it too because I'm a businessman at the end of the day, right? So it doesn't, it don't just help me, it helps everybody involved, right?

So I think when we have a specific ideal of how much or whether you're the one to be crowned, the goat or the reason for something to have, I just believe that God gave all of us roles, and I just try to play mine. I don't count nobody's money. I don't do anything, expecting anything back in return. Every African artist that you mentioned, none of them can tell you that I've ever enforced a contract,

came after them for any money, or even presented them with a deal. Okay. Not even Whiz kid. The only reason why me and Wiz had a contract was because it was with Banky W. And Banky had it. him. Okay. But me and Wiz directly, we never had a contract. It was with Banky's company that

was signing WIS, and we wanted to empower Banky's company. Okay. And WIS was a part of that. Because we were like, okay, you could be the first joint venture that we do in Nigeria. And all the artists under your label can utilize this platform to push out. And that's how WIS was able to be able to get that opportunity. Okay. All right. Fair. Fair. So because on this point, Because you, I mean, not only are you a musician, artist, but also a manager. Right. Right. Of talent.

And then a collaborator. Right. Of talent. But you just said something that I find really interesting. You said, I'm a businessman. Right. So I've interviewed lots of, I say, exceptional musicians. And not all musicians qualify themselves as a business person.

Right. But the one thing that I was doing in my research that I said, I was like, no, Acon is a businessman. is when I saw, or when you realized how much money you were making on ringtones. Right. To me, that was fascinating. Could you talk about how that influenced your music? Well, I would probably say that kind of gave me an understanding of where music was going business-wise. Okay.

I already saw it going digital. Like, that's why I always retained my digital rights, because I saw then, okay, technology is changing. and music is a part of that change, right? We were selling singles at the time for $1.99 for songs that was like at length four minutes, some five, even seven minutes at that time.

It was no timeline for how long a song was. Today's two minutes max. Right? And those was like a dollar 99. But then ringtones came up and those were $5.99 for 15 seconds. If that. That was the,

longest a song was was $5.99. I say, well, hey, what, hell of it. Some may add up. Or maybe it needs to add up. 15 seconds for $4.99, which is $5, or $1.99 for four or five minutes. It just made complete business sense to me. I say, I need to be focusing on ringtones. Every song that I make has to be ringtone friendly while I'm not releasing it. Because I'm going to utilize not only the ringtones to promote myself, because every time the song rings, guess what? Somebody's hearing the song, oh, what song is that? And they go buy it. Yes.

So you got walking billboards all over the globe with your ringer on their phones every time it rings, and that could happen five, ten, maybe 50 times a day. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I don't need radio no more. I got ringtones. And then on top of radio?

Yeah. Oh, forget about it. So when you're writing music, you're thinking... I'm thinking ringtone. Ringtones? Yep. I'm thinking ringtone. Okay, which part of this is...

Are we going to push out? for the actual song. So I always thought about the chorus. So when I wrote the chorus, I said, okay, this chorus has to be able to work on a ringtone. Okay, that's incredible. Yeah.

That's incredible. Yeah. I mean, I could see that, like, I didn't realize how much, how many albums you've sold. And not even doing this research. Everything, you seem like, with the drop of your first album,

everything just went platinum. Like, yeah, it was, man, I was blessed, to be honest, you know? I think it was, but believe it or not, the Africans was the ones that supported the most. Like especially the first album, you couldn't walk through Harlem without hearing at Acon.

Senegalese was like that. Oh, you're sitting down. You know what I said? And then from there, I went to the West Indians because I was doing a lot of dub plates. So between the Africans and the West Indians, it became like,

they became like my mouthpiece, like my promotional tools. Like they, they're where the mouth is really what got me even noticed, to be honest. Okay. But then from there, There was the crossover.

Then it crossed over. When I got to Mr. Lonely, everything changed. Okay. Like overnight. Overnight. That's what it felt like, at least. And how did it change for you? Well, for me, I started noticing that I was traveling internationally.

Because before then, I was performing locked up. I troubled nobody, ghetto domestically. And then I was getting a lot of dates in Africa. Those records was huge over there. And then I had a mixtape called The Illegal Alien. where I had Senegal and I had all the hottest beats at the time and I took those and freestyle over them. So the mixtape was just as popular as the album and the singles.

So with that, I was all over Africa. It was everywhere in Africa. And then when we dropped Mr. Lonely, then I was like, okay, this is different. Because now I'm getting called on pop stages. But what was crazy was that pop audience knew the urban records. Yes. They knew the locked-up records.

They knew the ghettos. They knew I was like, ooh, this is different. Then we go to places in Europe, like Germany, you know, Netherlands. You go to a place like Germany where nobody spoke English, but they sing the song from top to bottom.

That's when things got really interesting. I wouldn't say weird, but it's funny because I would think that after I got off stage, I could have a regular English conversation with you. And they couldn't understand nothing. I'm like, but how are you singing my songs from top to bottom?

And we can't speak English together. Right. So that weirded me out for a minute. I was like, wow, this is different. That's when I realized, okay, God is special. Right. And you're blessed. Yeah.

And you're blessed. 100%. When you think about your career, what was the moment where you just looked at it and said, this is surreal? I can't believe I'm doing this. I would probably say when the first time it actually happened where I actually had that moment. Like, because I kind of expected it in certain places. Like, home in Senegal, I expected it.

But it was mania, almost like Michael Jackson status. That's when I almost caught it. But I was like, well, I'm in Sundaygall. They're supposed to support me this way. It's like, you know. And when you say almost Michael Jackson status, you're talking about... No, like, I couldn't go out. I couldn't go nowhere.

Like, literally, I couldn't walk down the street. I couldn't go to the local store. It would always be thousands of people waiting outside. Thousands. Like thousands. But when I went to Zimbabwe, It was like, wait a minute. Like from the airport.

We couldn't leave the airport. Wow. Like we couldn't literally leave the airport. Like we couldn't leave the airport. Like the people would not leave until I showed my space. So they had a sunroof up there and I popped my head out the sunroof. I felt like I was in three stadiums and one. It was so many people for as long as you can see people. And I literally had to ride all the way to the airport on the roof. Because that was the only way I had to be that, you know, I just tell people like...

To tell people move out? It was like a sea of people. It was unbelievable. I mean, how does it feel to have that response to music that you create? That was another thing that was surreal. Like, you're like, damn. Like, my music is affecting this many people like this. That's when I realize, okay, I got a major purpose.

Like, it's those moments that make you realize that, okay, everyone in life has a purpose, and your purpose is always, is going to be intangible with your gift. Whatever your gift is that God gave you, that's what's going to be what's going to take you or walk you through the trail that you need to walk through to get to your purpose.

Okay. That's when I realize, okay, music is just a vehicle for me to do what I need to do. And I'm almost positive that Africa is where I need to be doing it. Interesting. So what did you believe you needed to do if it wasn't the music? The music was the...

At the time, I didn't know. Okay. I just knew I need to be in Africa doing something because the support here is overwhelming. there's got to be something I'm supposed to be doing. And I don't think it's just get rich. It ain't about money no more, right? You know what I mean?

Like, God push you through those stages where, okay, you want money? Okay, here's the money. All right, you want popularity? Here's popularity. Okay. Now it's like, okay, you got the popularity, you got the money, you got the respect. Okay, what are you supposed to do with that? You don't just brag about it.

Like, I know it's something more. Right. You got to know it's something more. Like, you can't think that the blessings is just here for you to walk around and just say, I got, I got and I got. Like, to me, it just didn't make sense. And then that's when we got into, you know, the charitable stuff. When I started Confidence Foundation, we started rebuilding schools and remodeling, giving computers

and stuff like that. But it felt like it's still something that needs to be bigger. And that seemed like the more I got into those things, more things were introduced. And that's when we got into the electricity because I started going through those rural areas, realizing there was not even no lights. And how I even got there, I was in Sierra Leone doing a concert. Okay. This is how crazy, you know, music walks you,

through your purpose, right? We got the huge stadium. Sierra Leone been waiting for this concert for, I don't know how long. You know, we finally get there. The place is so packed that outside the stadium, there's another 14, 15,000 people that couldn't get in. And I was like, those people can't get in, why? He said, well, they can't afford the tickets.

I said, okay, so all the tickets are sold out? Okay, we still have a place. Because they did, they sold out all the seats. But the feel still had space. But the stage was in the center of the field. Me being who I am, I need everybody that couldn't afford the tickets, put them on the field.

So now the field is flooded with people. The seats is flooded with people. Everybody's happy. We start rocking. Boom. Get into the third song, which is ghetto. Right as we say in ghetto, lights go out.

That's the sign. That was a sign. That was a side. But what was crazy was, the lights never came back on. Oh, man. No generator? No generator. It was the stadium electricity, well, the country.

It all went out to the point where everybody got rowdy, and da-da-da-da-da-da. We end up having to redo the show. But when I realized, okay, what happened? What happened? He said, well, you know, the power went out. It happens like this all the time. Like, every night, it happens at a certain time. We don't know when, but we know what's going to happen.

Is that the, what is it, the power load, the sharing? Yeah, it's something like that. It was something. But them, they just didn't have enough. They just didn't have enough. So ultimately, I was like, okay, we got to figure this out because I don't want to be going to other countries and we're having the same problem.

That's when I started getting interested in energy. I said, I got to figure how we can fix the energy problem in Africa, starting and certainly on. So that was it. Yeah, and that's what opened the door. Yeah, look at that. Look at that. Yeah, you could see where music has guided you.

Yeah. So what do you believe your purpose is today? To develop Africa 100%. I know for sure that's what it is. Okay. Yeah. Because anything that I've ever done that went towards a development of Africa,

I never got no pushback. Like everything went smooth sailing. Like I'll find the right partners, right investors, everything is rolling. And then when I realize, okay, development is coming on an abundance on a level that Africa will never need anybody again, then you start getting, you start seeing, okay?

Yep. Now I understand this is definitely my role. somebody got to play it. Yes. So you're willing to step up? 100% to that resistance. Yeah. Because if I don't know, I don't think nobody else will.

Yeah. Hello. My name is Holly. And I'm asking a certain someone, my friend, my dear friend, who knows who they are, to pick up the phone so that we can connect. Welcome to ID Mobile. Please need your message after the tone. I always feel refreshed once we've had a conversation.

It's almost like we go back. back in time to how we used to be. We reminisce. We talk about the fun days. I can't really tell how you are through text and your laugh. I can't hear your laugh over messages. And then when we do get together every two or three months, it's like a huge mammoth catch up of everything. And I feel like maybe some calls between those meetups would just help us, even if it's 15, 20 minutes, just to like touch base with each other. I would really like that. This may shock you, one of my best friends that I've had for the last eight years. I believe I've only picked up his phone call about four or five times in the eight years.

Wow. Why? I hate to say this, but it's efficiency for me. So why is that bad? Help me understand that. I think we're choosing convenience over connection. If somebody wrong me and said, hey, Holly, I'm just calling you to see how you are. I'd be like, oh, wow. Really? Yeah, it makes you feel wanted and appreciated.

Yeah, and important to somebody. Yeah. And I do believe if I called my best friend, he would truly feel like I thought he was important to me. Yeah. We're in partnership with ID Mobile and Mental Health UK. We want you to ditch the text. My conversation here with Holly, I've realized that I am not making my friends feel important. And when you make it a call, your friends feel your importance.

I have to show you this. Tell me what's happening in this photo and who are you with? Bro, this is my most proudest photo, bro. Is it? This photo? Yes. Now, Mike, I'm a full-blown celebrity. At this point.

You're big. What? But you're not that big enough for that. Man, listen, I'm a child compared to this man. Yeah. I was so happy. I couldn't, man, listen. Because I grew up my whole life looking up to Mike.

Mike, yeah. He's like everybody's idol. Nobody can tell me that Mike didn't have some kind of impact in your life. I don't care who you are. He was my favorite growing up. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it was like, growing up in New York, it was Prince versus Michael. Right.

I love Prince. I never liked Prince because I like Mike I'm not like that I'm not like that but I'm just saying if I had to choose one yeah Mike is my boy so I was always that rivalry like I would feel guilty listening to Prince

even though I loved his music especially the Purple Rain album I love that album but I could only play it once a month because the rest of the day he's got to go to Mike yes yes I was a diehard Mike fan as much as I loved Prince I couldn't support him openly

because I rock with Mike yes so with Michael I mean, Michael Jackson, the way that I hear the story is that he wanted to work with you. Yeah. You know, so that must be one of the top crowning moments. For sure. Yeah.

Without a question. Because, like, when I was locked up, I had this 10-year plan. Okay. I said, okay, this is what I want to be in accomplice with. And now in the next 10 years from the moment I get out of starting the ground, hitting it running, starting over here. Mike was at the top of the list on the things that I would want. want to achieve. Normally at the top of your list, it's always the things that you may deem

impossible, but you say, you know what, if I don't try, I won't never go. But if I can reach half that, I'm successful. Right. So you said you had Michael Jackson almost on a vision board. On the vision board. Like, my goal is to work with Mike. Okay. Before all this is over, I need to work with Mike. Once I work with him, then I know I made it. It happened in five years. It didn't even take 10. So I was already, like, blown away. at that point. It was unbelievable, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And so you work with them now. I have to ask, right? Because I'm fresh off of C.M. Michael in the theater, right? And first is, what was it like working with Mike? What was your biggest surprise working with him? First of all, it was a surreal, unbelievable moment, electrifying the work of Mike in the studio.

My biggest surprise, though, working with him, was how easy it was to work with him. Worker with him made me understand why he's as big as he is. Because he had no ego. Literally no ego. He would do any and everything or even tried if I asked him to do it.

He didn't care. He was like, listen, I called you in here because I believe in what you do and I need that to rub off of what I'm doing. I need to do something that I wouldn't think of doing. If I would have asked Mark to bark on the record, he would have did it. Just because I asked him to do it And he would also want to see what it sounded.

He's not even like, nah, man, I ain't no dog. I ain't barking on that record. He wouldn't have did that. He would have been like, woof, roof. How did that sound? What do you think? Like he gives you 100% trust. When he hires you do something, he's like, it's your ship.

You tell me, you know, whatever you need to do, I'm doing it. That's how much trust he has in it. And not too many artists have that in either a producer or a songwriter or someone that curates their sound. Or someone who's already known for a specific sound. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It was like, to see that, I was like, wow, I remember working with artists that went wood in the hood.

Like ain't had a, saying so, no records. And you think you're working with someone like a mic because of how they're moving. And I'm like, but Mike, it was like, it was like, he had so much passion for the art. He never questioned it. Like he already knew that the combination of us was going to be, like, he didn't have, he didn't have to think about it. So he just trusted it. Yeah, he just trusted the process. the process. And then after you two would create, would he then give opinion or he just trusted you in...

No, that's exactly. He would just trust. He would just trust. And me, I would, because I trust the same way, I'd be like, Mike, well, just do whatever you feel. We're going to keep what's good. We're going to keep what's not. I mean, he's Michael Jackson. Yeah. Everything ain't always good, though. That's another thing that was surprised me. Some things weren't as good as I'm like, damn, it's Mike. But I realized, even with me, everything ain't always, this is a record's you ain't never going to hear, ever going to hear. Right, right. You know what I'm saying? The stuff that I really, really, really, believe in, boom. Like, I was those times where I thought Mike couldn't hit a bad note, you know.

But I realized Mike was human like we all was. Right. But he was a perfectionist, though. He wasn't letting it go unless it was perfect. That's for sure. Okay. I mean, and I have to ask, not to be on the controversial side, but just the more and more people that I talk to in the industry.

Right, right. I read once that you said he was the healthiest person that you knew. Yeah. He was, from what I've known of him, super, super healthy. Super, super healthy. ate good. He had a schedule for his food. Like, he was just very organized.

How do you believe, truly, how do you believe he died? I just believe that. I mean, what I believe is what I believe. I just don't feel like, I just feel like there's a lot of holes. Like, it's not a solid canvas on the explanation of his death. I just honestly believe that there should be a lot more investigating need to be done without a question. So do you fear that, right? And the reason why I bring this up

is truly not to be conspiracy theorists, but because I now understand more about power. Right. And the threat that comes... That comes with it, right? That comes with it. Right. So do you fear that as your power and influence grows,

especially with projects in Africa, right? Do you ever have the fear of a threat against your life? Not really. Like, that's the one thing I've never been afraid of is dying. Because I just feel like God's disciples are meant to come back. Like, death is promise. The question is, once you die, how will you be remembered?

What have you accomplished before then? Or was your purpose fulfilled before you died? Okay. Like, death was never an issue for me. Like, even that's why I was probably so successful in the street because I always feel like God was protecting me at every moment. So even with stuff like this, that's why I said I welcomed it, because I know it's coming.

And I know that what I'm doing is something that was worth doing. That's why I'm getting the resistance. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Yes. But death can't be, if you're a man of faith, death can't ever be something that you fear. Because then you really have to question your own faith

and question yourself. Okay. The moment you're afraid to die, now you have to ask yourself like, why? Like, you're supposed to be welcoming that, to be honest. Like, if your faith is as true as if you say it is. Okay. You know what I mean? And has your faith always been that level of strength?

When I was younger? Yes. No. Okay. I was scared because I didn't know what to face. I didn't know what I was going to face. Like, okay, what happens when you die? You ask all the questions.

Like, if you go to hell, you go to heaven? Yeah, what does it look like? Is it over? Is it black? is a dark. Do you go, are you re-encarcinated into a tree, a cup? You don't know, like, it's all these questions. But then when you realize some things ain't meant to be explained

and there's some things that our mind capacity will never be able to understand. You know what I mean? Like, that's just a part of the faith, the same way we've never met God, but we know he exists. Okay, okay. Or whatever higher being it is that you worship. Your worship.

All right, can we unpack that piece? Right. Because in looking at interviews and research around you, the one part that I have a question mark on, like a curious piece on is how you grew up. Oh, man. And the circumstances, because even to hear you talk about Senegal and you talked about how you lived with different religion and how there wasn't conflict. I think a lot of people think Africa, conflict, conflict, I'm with you. Right. Senegal was one of the few places where there was no significant conflict, right?

Right. And I think that that does shape. No, it does. It shapes, yeah. So when you go back, you were born, though, in the States. In St. Louis, yeah. Okay. Born in St. Louis.

What do you remember about, so when you think earliest memory of childhood, what was that like for you? Well, it was my earliest memories, I kind of. kind of wanted to go back to Senegal. Okay. So when we were born, my dad was a forward thinker. Like, I think I got that from him, always trying to vision the future. Every time one of us was born, he would fly my mom to the States. She would have us, and he would send us back to Africa.

So we all came to the States to be born for our U.S. citizenship, and he would send us back. You know, we went to school there until we were old enough to come to the States to finish school. So all of us came like around seven and eight between all of my brothers. And then when we were back. But earlier years we were in Senegal. That's why we all still speak well of, you know, we're all accustomed to our native tongue and everything else, culture and everything. Okay. And even on that, and so how many, because is it, is it 19 of y'all?

Yeah, my dad, yeah. My dad is, yeah. He's king. Literally. Literally. Yeah. So you had 19 siblings, or 18 siblings, including. It's something like that.

Okay. So it's, so it's, so you don't even know the number. I don't. It don't even matter no more. Really? I swear I don't. Okay. Because my dad, my pops is like about 89 now. Okay.

And I got a nine-year-old brother. So he had a child at 80. Yeah. Which that means the genes are that strong. I don't have to worry about it. I know at 80 I'm still being pumping out babies. Okay. But are you though?

I don't know. We'll see. You know, if I reach 80, you know, willing. All right. So then born for the U.S. citizenship in the States. Right. But then you go back. So growing up in Senegal, how did that, how do you think that shaped?

No, that shaped me, period. Like, I think those earlier years gave me, like, you know how they say, you want to teach the child as much as you possibly can when they're at that sponge years. And that was the one thing that I, my pop did nothing else right in his life. He did that right because he made sure while we were young, we learned multiple languages, We learned our culture. We knew where we came from. And that mindset that came from the idea of treating everybody the same,

no matter what your faith was, and just understanding life from a family perspective, that came with me. Because all my friends, I couldn't understand when I got to the U.S., how none of them had their fathers around. Like, where's your dad, though, bro? Like, you know, or where's your big brother? Or where's your mom, for that matter?

You had single fathers raising kids. It was a lot of single parent way of life in America. I couldn't understand how this was possible or how my friends would be spending weeks at a time in my house and his parents don't call a check on them at where they're at. So I understood that there was a huge displacement and family values in America. And I came with that.

So I invited everybody. Like, even now, like my brother Babs would tell me, yo, bro, you're too nice. Like, you give everybody a chance. You know what I mean? Yes. But I don't know how to not give them. Like, I'm the kind of person that give you 100% trust from the moment we meet until you pull those layers off

and don't trust you no more. Right. But I'm not going to meet you not trusting you. Okay. It's the other way around. I'm with you. So then you were in the States because your father was a musician, so he's traveling.

And so where were you, was it Newark that you spent once in the time? Yeah, when I got to New Jersey, I was Jersey City. Oh, Jersey City. It was Jersey City. But I used to work in Newark. Okay. So I was back and forth between Jersey. city in Newark, which was like the two

craziest size. You from Queens, you already know how I have to tell you. I'm not going to say it. You get in trouble. I'm not going to say it. Dirty Jersey, but on the real for all of us that know is it's a rough spot. Yeah, it's a rough, rough spot. But I think what helped me in Jersey

was the fact that when I was in St. Louis, I lived in East St. Louis. So East St. Louis is equivalent to what I think East St. Louis is probably the reason why Chicago is what it is today. Because at that time, in that area, it was so bad that the police went on strike for 30 days. Now, I don't know an area that could be that bad where the cops go would strike. It was just, it was unbelievable. But when I got to Jersey, it wasn't as bad from how everyone seen it to be because I already came from a culture in Africa where I already, you know, experienced extreme poverty from a level of living out in the

rural areas, you know, drinking well water and electricity was literally candles and kerosene lamps. We didn't have the luxury that I got in the States. So everything in the States to me was luxury. Interesting. You know what I'm saying? It's interesting. It was different. Like, while they're complaining about it, I'm like, man, this is what? This is it. We got lights on. Man, we got switches, clean water on the faucet, like y'all tripping. Yeah. You know? So it was definitely different. And so in the States, were you, because at a certain point, you, it was just what you and your brother. Yeah, just me and my brother, Muhammad. Yeah, my older brother. This is in Jersey.

In Jersey City. So we had a three-story house in Jersey on Kennedy Boulevard. And my dad had an opportunity to go to Atlanta, Clark, Atlanta, on a cultural exchange program as a professor there. So he's like, listen, Mo, you only got one year left. I leave, which is me, you got two years left. You decide if y'all want to stay, you know, because Mo is responsible. So if your brother's going to stay, then you guys can stay after the black next year. You graduate, you can come meet me in Atlanta.

This is in high school. This is in high school. Okay. So me and my older brother, Muhammad, stayed at the house while my mom and my pop went off to Atlanta with my other brothers. Wow. So you were how old, like 16? I was in high school.

15, 16? No, I was older than that because when I came from Africa, I didn't speak no English. I didn't graduate high school until I was like 20, 20, 20, 2021. Really? Yeah. Okay, yeah, that's older. I was older. Yeah.

That's interesting. Yeah. So a lot of people's like, how are your parents going to leave you on? I mean, I was actually 18. You were a man. I was grown home. But I was still. high school, though. You know what I mean? Wow, I didn't realize that. So you were older high school

student. I was an older high school school. And it was because you didn't speak English. Because I had to learn how to speak English. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So that makes sense. They leave, but you're still 20. Yeah, practically. Chilling. You know, but you then grow up with your brother. Yeah. And you're in Newark. Yeah. It was a hustle. Because now, because we're a little, I wouldn't want to say older, but because Pops gave us that opportunity to be mature, have our own space, we don't want, well, at least I didn't want to be calling my dad for no money

or calling him to pay the rent. I'm like, yo, he left us here with the house. Like, we should let him know that we got this. Wow. So that's when I get to hustling, because I ain't more popped even though that we was taking care of the bills. The last thing I wanted to do was call my dad

for electricity or for a phone or a water bill for nothing. I want him to say, okay, my boys got this. You know what I mean? So it was my pride really killing and kicking in. But then that's when I got to hustling. And in Newark, at that time, it was like the car theft capital of the world. So stealing cars was like the thing.

And I used to love cars. So that's what I got into. So I would drive to school in like the most high-end vehicles. Wow. And all the girls thought that, you know, I was rich. So I would tell them all I was a prince in Africa. I come to school with a different car every week. They're like, yo, you're a prince.

Wow. But I mean? Hey, it worked. You know what I'm saying? Hey, you got to get out of you live. I see it. I see it. So it was stealing cars.

Yep. That was really... Because I always felt like drug dealing was... God have been the dumbest hustle. Because it didn't make sense, especially for the risk that came with it. Right? Any more of you get stuck up, get shot and kill.

You got to constantly watch your back. And you get caught with it. I mean, for a brick, you're doing 25 to life. Yeah. And the problem. profit on it's only $2,500,000 if you're lucky. Right. You know what I mean?

And you got to sell it on a bulk to get it. I mean, you sell one. You may get close to a five if anybody's supplying. But unless you're doing some major heavyweight at $2,500 apiece, you ain't seeing no money. For the risk that come with it, it doesn't make sense. So how much do you make selling cars? Cars, man.

For every car I got rid of, I'm making like $15, $20,000. Wow. And if I got the key to it and I get locked up, that's a joyriding charge. It's a misdemeanor. It goes right off your record. 15 to 20,000. Think about it.

And you get the perks, driving through and the ride looking nice, ride nice. Shorty's looking at you, so you get the perks of the beautiful women on top of that. Ain't no risk. And if I get jacked, man, you can have that.

I'm going to go pick up another one. Another car. You know? Yeah. Okay. It was a different level of thinking at that time. How much did you make, you think, stealing cars?

Oh, man, it was very successful for me, Because when I left New Jersey and went to Atlanta with my dad, it was a clean slate in Atlanta. They didn't even know, they were slow on that hustle. So by the time I set up shopping was in Atlanta, I was making like 200, maybe $250,000 a week. It was at that time. By yourself?

Yeah. Yep, to the point where I had to bring in some help. That was the biggest mistake I should have ever made because I should have just kept it by myself. But I was making in so much money that I had to figure out how I would launder it, like move it around. And that's what I thought about it, because studios, music studios was a cash business.

So I was like, you know what? Let me build a few music studios. A few. A few. Because I had three recording studios in Atlanta. So that became how I justified how I made my money. So I would let everybody use it just to keep it busy for free. Didn't have to pay no money.

And I think, too, people need to understand Atlanta. This is what year in Atlanta. I would say from the moment I got there, like around late 93 to 98. Okay. That was my window. That was your window. All right. So I think paint the picture because, I mean, I remember Atlanta during that time.

Right. Yeah. Visited Atlanta. Freaknickers will got me there. Okay. And please, because many people will not know because Freaknik is done. It's over. Yeah, freaknik is over.

But what was it? Freak Nick was probably the, it was the biggest high school. No, no, biggest college. The biggest college spring weekend. festival, I mean the fliest, the baddest chicks from everywhere in America, excuse me, were flying, driving, and it was like a fest, like, but it was like a fest with no filters, girls would be twerking on top of the cars, drinking. I mean, like, it was, I mean, you had, I can understand now why they stopped it, because literally girls would be butt naked on the hood of the car at a stop

like just twerking. Freak, that's why they called the Freak Nick. Yes, and there was no social media. It was no social media. Right now, if you go back, if you go on YouTube, you may see a few documentaries that was built around Freaknick, but it was all on Camquotor's shots that people that just happened to have camcorders. But man, when I tell you, that experience, when I went to to visit my pop and never

went back to Jersey after Freaknight. Yeah, I mean, Freak Nick. Atlanta was, so, I mean, Freak Nick was. It was one thing. Yeah. But Atlanta also. Oh, and then at that time, it was like, Atlanta was a huge population of just successful black people.

Yes. It was the same when I visited. I'd never seen it. Unbelievable. I mean, yeah, guys that own their own high rises. Everybody riding in beautiful whips, beautiful houses out in Alpharetta and Buckethe. First Bentley ever saw was in Atlanta. But you know who was driving it?

Who there? Bishop Eddie Long. Oh, yeah. Bishop Eddie Long. I got to tell you this. Oh, no, no, no, I got to you. We went to Atlanta. It was for a Hawks game.

And I saw a Bentley drive around, right, just the front of it. Right. And then it stopped. Then the driver got out. It wasn't raining, but somebody pulled out an umbrella. Oh, boy. Bishop used to show out. Open the door.

Oh, my goodness. Cain comes out. It's Bishop Eddie Long. And I was like, okay, I've seen it all now. No, Bishop Betty Long. For those who don't know, For those who don't know, he was the preacher at New Birth. But I will say this.

Shout out to Pastor Jamal Bryant. I know him. I know he's the pastor there now. Wow. He could probably tell you some stories, huh? Oh, man. But I will say this, Pastor Jamal Bryant was the first person ever to pay me to speak publicly. Wow.

He brought me to his church in Maryland. I never forget it. Unbelievable. I had just written my book, brought me to the church, paid me, And then he ensured that the congregation bought my church, bought my book. That's amazing. And it changed my life. Atlanta was so vibrant, man.

And then the music. So was that Germain Dupree, So So So Def was founded in Atlanta? Okay. LaFace was the biggest label that came out of Atlanta. That's right. That's right. The face is actually what created the opportunity for all of what you see that's coming out of Atlanta today.

All of them, starting with OutKAS, TLC, you know, Usher Raymond, Pink. I mean, you name it, man. And it was like they were, they were like, Goody Mob. Like, that, at that, it was around that time where my studios was jam-packed. Yes. And you had all those artists, I would imagine, in there. It was so many artists that used to use my studios for absolutely free. Wow.

So we fast forward four or five years later, I get clipped and I'm in jail. Okay, I'm not, this is never, this isn't the life I want to live. That was a turning point when I realized, okay, I know what I need to be doing and it ain't this. Now, now how long were you locked up for it? About three years. Okay. I got out 2001. Then when I got out, the first thing I did was go and start recording all the songs that I wrote when I was in jail.

Okay. And then I realized that we locked up was the first record that I wanted to release because I feel like that was the moment that I was in at that time. And then Steve Rifkin, who I was assigned to him at SRC, Kind of was with me, but Universal wanted to release Pananza. That became the record that they felt like was the record. But you had the deal already when you were locked up or no? No. You had no deal when you were.

I had no deal when I was locked up. Okay. So where does Fujis and Wyclef? That was all when I was doing cars. So, yeah. So while I was in Newark doing cars, oh, that's right, because Fuji's a jersey. Yeah, we was right there on Clinton Ave.

Like we had to book a base, well, they had the book a basement there, and they welcomed all of us, you know. Jerry Wonder's uncle wasn't when I'd actually own the house and Jerry was a mock immaculate producer till his day we had him to do a lot of records together but you know we all used to work at the basement

and me at that time music wasn't something that I took seriously because I was hustling I was like oh I got it so but whenever I was like fleeing from the cops or something I go straight to the studio they won't know where to find me or I finished my day just you know going

like Clef would always look at and be like man you up to something, man, what you up to, brother? He would see me coming these different cars. And then one day you said, you know, kind of, I don't know what you up to, man. But I'm just telling you, bro, whatever you're doing, it ain't going to mouth to nothing, man. Figure out what you want.

You know, you're a talented writer. You're dope producer. He's come rock with us. You know, spend time over here. Where that energy that you got over there? Put that energy over here. Wow. And, of course, I hear it two, three days later.

I go out and get my bread. It goes through one in and out the other. So it was that, right? But I would always be at the basement. So they made me family. Every time there was a show, concert, yo, we got a performance over here. We're going to be at such a such part.

We got a show in Brooklyn. And I would always come to the show. And every time I come to the show, Keph would always bring me on stage and let me freestyle. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we got newest member of the refugee camp. You bring me on out of freestyle. And at that time, they knew what it was.

I didn't even realize. So you were official? Yeah, I was an official refugee camp member. Wow. I just ain't taking it as serious. You know, but that's what it took. Because when I got locked up, and I'm watching a television

and I see the Fuji's blowing up killing me softly, ready or not, going diamond, and I'm sitting like, what am I doing here? That was another major motivation for me too. To see how well they climb.

Yeah, while I'm in jail, they're up there blowing up. And I'm like, man, I could have been over there with these guys. Okay. It changes everything. So now I see you're motivated to write. Right.

And so tell me about the 10-year plan, though, because I think that's really interesting how you created basically a vision statement for your life. Yeah, so when I was in there, you know, I would just write on strength, right? And then I was writing locked up. And as I'm writing locked up, you know, every once in a while I just kind of like sing it to myself

to make sure I got what I want. And there was this older guy named Booney who was like my cellmate. And he was sitting there and be like, Youngblood, man. What you're doing here, man? All this talent, man. If you put all that energy that you had in the streets into your music,

and you'll be, you wouldn't be here. Right. You know how big you could be? Right? You know how big you could be? And I was like, man, you know what you're right. And then one day we just happened to be in the pod. We was playing, I think it was playing spades.

Okay. And then Booney was like, Y'am Blu, seen that song, man. Sing that song for everybody. You sung for me last night, man. Seen that song for me. Right? And I'm saying, I'm locked up. They won't let me out.

Right? So then they was like, oh, that's your heart. That's your heart. Right. So now, every time a guard would walk past, we would sing the song out together. I'm locked up. They won't let me out. Bitch. Won't let me out. Bidt. That's the original version. Right? So then it became an anthem where every pod would sing it every time a guard would walk past. Oh, wow. And Booney was like, see what I'm saying? Look at this, man. He only said. this last week, this is an anthem in here now. Bro, I'm telling you, boy, you better focus, man. You better focus. He was an older guy, he's like 67.

He's like, see, I'm telling you, man, if you don't do nothing else, if you don't get nothing else from here, just remember I told you, if you focus on that music, boy, that's your freedom. And I thought about it, I said, you know what, you're right. So when I, I incorporated my company, I said, yo, Boone, I said, man, I took your advice. I started my company, man, what you think?

He said, yeah, what you named it? I said, convict music. He said, why the fuck would you do that? Convick music, man, that's the dumbest name I ever heard of my life. Oh, my God. I mean. Right? I said, nah, but think about it, Booney.

You know, that's what inspired me, man, to do this, man. And the music is starting from here. And I'm telling them what I'm doing. I'm showing us. So I'm saying, you said, I would put together a business plan and let me see it. And I put together a whole business plan. Then I wrote out what I wanted to do in the next 10 years. Okay.

And what was on? What were some of those moments on the 10-year plan? The first thing, I wanted to record these songs. Okay. That was the first thing. I got to give me another studio and record these songs. That's going to be the first thing I do. Once I get these songs,

and I'm going to go out and give me a record deal. Okay. Once I get this record deal, I'm going to get that money from a record deal, and I'm going to purchase in a legitimate studio. Okay. Okay. Right? And then from there, I'm just going to create catalog.

I'm going to write for everybody that needs songs. I'm going to be a writer, a composer. And if all this stuff worked, that's cool. But I know this part, it's a no-brainer because I know I got this. And then the next thing I'm going to do, I'm going to take all these songs. I'm going to take how many of these songs they won't and take. I'm going to just going to write for them and I'm going to stay on the road with them. And all this.

By that time, it was so big. And then there was some friction going on within the family. You know, cries. He's the businessman moving. Clef and Lauren wasn't getting along, seeing eye to eye. So it was a lot of little things. So I was like, okay, that ain't going to, that can't work. Because they got to fix that before I could be a part of what's going on.

And then you had Spider and you had all these other members. They had their stuff going on. So now we're all kind of coming together, but we can't be the nucleus without the three main members, right? So then I was like, okay, I didn't you just focus and be, you know, going. That's when I ran into Lilzain. Yes, yes. Lilzane used to live in my complex, and he was riding his bike.

Little kid. Oh, so he was only 13 years old. Oh, wow. So this is like before he was real. Yes, he was only 13 years old. And he rode past and he came in me. man, I heard you produce. I said, yeah, how do you know?

He said, yeah, man, I heard you produce. He said, I rap. I said, yeah, it's a rap for me. He rapped for me. I was like, man, he's hard. You know what I'm saying? Like, super hard. So then he's like, yeah, man, I'm signed and I'm with naughty by nature.

And I said, oh, they're from Jersey. I know them. Okay. So he told me about Vinny and what he was doing with them over there, and treaching all of them. And then come to find out they had a single deal with RCA. So Lil Zane then introduced me to a guy named Divine Stevens. Okay.

Who was doing all of the artist's development for LaFace in Atlanta. So even till this day when people say, well, you know, who discovered you? I'd be like, it was Little Zane, to be honest, because he was the one that put me in pocket to meet with Divine who later brought me to Steve Rifkin. Wow. So incredible. Yeah. Yeah, that's incredible. Isn't that crazy?

But also, I mean, it was definitely, Lil Zane made the play. But if you hadn't had the real estate. relationship with the Fugees. Oh, yeah. Eventually, I think it would all came together. Yeah. But I think that route was the route that it was meant to be. Because what's the odds of a 13-year-old kid taking me to a connect?

Yeah. That puts me on. Yeah. Like the odds of that. Yeah. He's 13. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's incredible. You know what I mean? It's incredible. Yeah. And so when you look at your career, we talked to, it's interesting. We talked a lot about the career. Right.

But more so about the highlight of it. Right. What do you believe was the, darkest moment in your I think the darkest moment is when I got locked up to be honest. That was the darkest moment period. But then while I was in there I kind of saw the

light at the end of the tunnel. It's almost like I had to sit down. Like I was out of control. Like I needed to be locked up to be honest. Because at that time I thought I was being punished but later I realized God was preserving me for something. Because the other two guys that I was moving with, they both

doing life in prison right now till this day. Are they? And they got locked up while I was injured. I see. So he preserved me. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's heavy. Yeah, it's that, yeah. Yeah, that's heavy.

The older I've gotten, the more conscious I've become about keeping a high protein diet. And not in an obsessive way, but more just paying attention. Because when I'm getting enough protein, I feel it. Mentally I'm sharper, my energy doesn't drop at 3pm, and after a workout, I'm just not wiped out for the next two days. Now, the hardest part has always been staying. consistent. I travel constantly. Sometimes I'm on set, sometimes I'm in a studio, sometimes I'm at a desk. And the idea that I'm sitting down to a perfectly balanced protein-rich meal three times a day, well, that'll just never be my life. So I lean on our sponsor, Huell. Now, their black edition

powder is what I use when I'm at home. It's 40 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. Then one of my favorites here, the ready to drink, which is better when I'm running from place to place, same nutrition, zero prep. Last but not least, the cherry on top, we have the trifecta, which is the daily A to Z. That's vitamins, energy, and hydration, all in one can. Get your Hewled today at Hewle.com forward slash WNTT and use my code WNTT for 10 pounds off. What pains you today? Nothing.

There's no... The only thing. There's nothing. But I don't want to call it pain. Okay. The only thing that bothers me is that Africans can't come together and unite. That's the only thing that when I think about it makes me angry. Because we have the potential to be so much more if we came together.

Yes. And I'm with that. But just on you, though, there must be moments where you, where something feels heavy to you. That's the only thing that. feels heavy. I swear to God. That's the only thing that feels like that's the only thing. I mean, what about, I mean, you've got kids. Yeah, but my kids are fine.

Like, my kids are great. Relationships are good. It's all manageable. But it's never. And those are things I can control. But it's not, I mean, so, all right, so. You know what I'm saying? I've, I've, I've two boys. Right. And I always say that my, and maybe this is not the right thing to say, but this is what I say,

is that my happiness is based on their happiness. So if they're in a situation where, like, I know one is sick, then I'm not in the greatest moods because he's sick. Right. You know, so my happiness is almost based on... But as a parent, that's automatic. Right. That's father, mother.

Like, that's automatic. I don't even think you can count that because that's your seed. They're connected to you. Like, you know what I'm saying? Fair. But when it's people that aren't connected to you, genealogical, genologically, you know what I mean, genocally, whatever. Genetically.

Genetically. There we go. I couldn't find a word for nothing. When they're genetically not connected to you, but there's a spiritual connection, it hits a little harder because it's in your soul. Because I honestly believe somehow, some way, like even sometimes, like I may say the dumbest thing online, because I know people are going to comment about it to create a conversation about something that's important.

Okay. So you understand what I'm saying? So do you intentionally do that? 100%. So would you put yourself as a, you say you're a rage baiter there? No, not quite. It's a method. Because one thing I'm like, prime example, with my earliest songs, right?

The one album that I can say was true to me was my first album, Trouble. Okay. Right? After the Trouble album, I realized, okay, this is a business. The world thing I always want to hear about my problems. So I'm experiencing different things. that they also can relate to. That's when convicted came in, right?

Convicted was stories of success, but also stories not about me, but what other people felt and what other people saw. But there was also a lot of ignorance in that album that I knew would draw to people that I needed to hear me. Oh, interesting. Right?

So I got, I want to fuck you, smack that. The shit I normally wouldn't sing about, but I know it's going to draw an audience that I need to talk to. Then I go into freedom, which is a little bit different. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah.

But it also opened up a platform for me to talk to certain people that normally wouldn't listen. Interesting. So you're saying you strategically dangle the character. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100%. So you talked about, what, ignorant stuff? Right.

Because it's going to open up the comment. Okay. And guess what happens? It's the best thing because when it does open those comments, I'm reading them. And it's always somebody that asks a question where I'd be like, bingo. And that's who I respond to. And guess what that does? It opens up a whole conversation.

And my followers know, like, they know. Yes. Because they've seen the threads of real conversations about what us as a people, what us as humans, the challenge is that we need to face to have these certain discussions. Yes. Right. And all the time it's about culture building, right? And tradition building because most African Americans don't have a culture. Yeah.

that they are aware of from an educational perspective. They know what they were raised around, but their background is very hazy because they wasn't taught that because of the way the system was built in America to teach them black history. Yeah, and also, too, is, like, your approach to this, I mean, I can't act like, oh, I'm shocked.

That's entertainment to me. Because every, I would say, every Uberly successful entertainer that I've ever talked to has been fully aware of the business of entertainment. Right. And that the business of entertainment

is to draw out emotion. 100%. Fear, joy, happiness, sadness, and then try to deliver the message 100% throughout it.

100%. So I can't act like I'm shocked because that makes sense. I mean, that's what it is. Like, you got to know how to, like, you got to know how to manipulate the algorithm.

Because the attention span is only but small. Yep. And the average person is going to respond to something negative before they respond to something positive. Yes, yes. All right. So then on that then, is there anything that you want to clarify?

No. I need it. I need that. I need it. So then, can I ask you some questions that are lingering? And you don't have to answer that. So first is, this is going to sound wild is. What is your name?

What is your real name? I'm serious. I, yo, because I like you and you are my brother from another mother. I will give you a hint. But I can't give you the fool. Okay, okay. All right. And if I give you one word, if you feel my soul, you will understand.

Okay. Entertainment. Why are you looking at me like that? Are you serious? But are you serious? Are you serious? What? I mean, you said one word?

You said entertainment. I'm entertainer, yes. What about it? But your name, though? What about it? My name is Acon. But full name. Full name.

You want to hear it? Yes. I won't give you the backstory, but I can't. Because I already gave you a hint. Okay. But it's Ali Nabaabu Gatai Buhrudehap. Look at your face. Yeah.

Okay. In 10 years, I'm going to give you the full definition, story. Yes. Where it came from, Howard came from, which family member, how it became what it is. Okay. But in 10 years. But I need people to search, research, understand.

Okay. All right. I'm with it. I'm not mad at it. But you're the closest to ever get me this close to explain the meaning of that name. You know what? I appreciate it. I do.

Because I have. I think that there are people who have questions, but then we have to understand what we were just talking about. And that is that you have been very successful at keeping our attention for a long period of time. Like you've been in the game for a minute. And you are still selling out arenas. Right.

And so for you to do that, from what I understand about the music business is, it's not just about the music, it's about the business. No, the business is, I mean, it's the business. I mean, it's the music business. People forget the word business even is even attached to music business, right? So this generation, they kind of did a leapfrog. They skipped the business and went straight to marketing. Right?

Before, in my generation, they ran with the music and forgot the business. And in this generation, skip the business and go straight to marketing. Okay. So the interesting part about it is that they're both in the same boat. Because you got these kids that go viral every week and wondering why their bank account is empty. Not realizing that viral moment just generated millions for somebody,

and you weren't a part of it. Right, right, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So the popularity will always win in human nature because everybody wants to be popular. But the problem is popularity comes with a cost. Because now when you're popular, everybody thinks you're rich.

So when you're popular with no money, mental awareness kicks in depression kicks in this is what all these kids are going through right now yeah we just had James Sexton he's one of the most famous divorce attorneys in the world he said the same he said the same

interesting he said that the worst thing you could be is popular and broke oh my goodness yeah it's no joke have have you been there yeah you would never know it though we all been through it the most famous the most so-called rich

you have to go through it's no way around it but how so it's just how the business goes especially if you're an investor or you're a businessman you're going to take losses that's the part of the business you're going to take losses

the question is how do you pad those losses to where you're not lost long enough to lose it but you're going to hit those little potholes like the same way the stock market goes up and down you got to pad it enough to where when the stock market drops you got enough to hold you

until that start, lift back up. And it's no different being a celebrity, a businessman, or someone to claim to be a billionaire. Okay, that's true.

I mean, think about Trump. He's been a billionaire for how many years that you've known him for all your life, right? Yes. But he was a billionaire

in the negative. He owed billions. Right, right. That ain't a billionaire. Right. That's true. Now he's in a positive. Way up.

Man, once you file bankruptcy, you're no longer a billionaire. But once you hold that title, those are the same thing. decisions that you make can keep you there from a strategy or image perspective, but liquid, man, you're working off and living off credit. Yes, yes, yes. Can we talk, if you're open to talk about this, can we talk about relationships?

I'm always open to talk about relationships. All right, because this is my background, is that I was a matchmaker, and most of this conversation, this show, started with relationships. Interesting. And I see that your talks on relationships. When you talk about relationships, it gets a lot of attention. But let's not necessarily clarify, but just get your opinion on certain things. Right.

So first is you, and I would imagine that you're, so you believe in polyamory. Yeah, polyamory, yeah. And one thing I will say that I think there's a lot of people that's like, oh, polyamory. I think we have to understand, because I've researched the hell out of polyamory. is that I've seen that 82 to 85% of societies around the world at some point have allowed practiced polyamory. Right. So I think we have to understand that the majority of the world at some point, societies practiced it. Yeah, because polyamory is a natural behavior for men.

This is a natural behavior. Now, because of the rules that set around us, we control that behavior to, you can say, appease our partner because of the same rules that we're living by and that we're, you can say, agreeing upon. Does that make sense? Because when you're single, it's not a problem. It's only when you are attached or you've promised someone that this is a relationship that we're supposed to hold in the rules that you decide to hold it in, if that makes sense. But the only pushback out throw is that I feel like men and women have evolved as both monogamous. So monogamy, practicing monogamy and non-ethical, or no, no, let me say, monogamy and polyamorous. You say creative.

And creative, right? Because the way that I see it is, is that there's a lot of, you know, so pair bonding is natural. Right. Pair bonding is you connect with one person, you feel the emotion, you feel jealous. Right. It's all human. That's human genetics. But also, we have evolved from, let's see, how many people we can have, we can genetically pass our.

See, that's different. Now, that's different. That is different. Okay. Because that's careless. Like, okay, you don't just go out and say, okay, let me just see. anybody need chicks I can get. Or how many homies I can smash,

ball players, whatever, right? I think that behavior is completely careless. Now, who you attracted to naturally, that's a feeling that you can't escape, you can't deny it because it is what it is. The feeling is a real feeling. You can't control who you're attracted to, right? But you can control who you decide

to approach that attraction towards. Yes. You follow what I'm saying? That's why I said single people, oh yeah, you guys are all day can move how you want to move. Whether it's in secret or it's an open. If it's going to be open, just be completely honest. Yes, okay. That's all I ever say.

If you're going to do it, be honest about it. Yes. That's it. Yes. There's nothing more. The problem is the majority of the critics are hypocritical because they're saying that this ain't right, but yet they're doing it. Because there's not a person I promise you that ever critiqued or critiqued anything that I've, I've ever said that if I went and did a background check on them right now or hired a private

investigator that I wouldn't find nothing. That's just being real, right? So the thing is, I think as humans, sometimes we find ourselves judging others, not understanding the pathway they went through because most of the time, oftentimes when I'm talking, I'm talking relating to culture. The culture that we came up in Africa, culture that certain people came up in the Middle East, and even in Asia, is just totally different from how it is in American and Europe. Yeah.

But then also in American Europe right now, polyamory is increasing. Right. No, they're just more open with it. It's always been there. Yeah, okay. It's always been there. They're now just being open with it. Fair, fair.

And also, I think it's important to underscore that to marry multiple wives or husbands is illegal in the U.S. and the U.K. Right. Right. It is. However, is it practiced, yes. Yeah. I mean, if you go to Utah, it's illegal in Utah. So I thought it was still illegal, but it's practiced.

This is what I mean when I say it's hypocritical. It doesn't make sense. Like how in the state of Utah, it's legal, because you can go through the courthouse and literally marry as many as you want, not even, at least in Islam you entitled to four. And four is a heavy load on a man. Like, you can barely deal with one, let alone four, right? So in Utah, you can marry as many as you like. but it's not a conversation

as to what that is because there's no explanation for it. Okay, okay. You follow what I'm saying? All right. And if you do create an explanation, then it becomes racist and you don't want to go that route.

Right. Because you want to keep it traditional from a cultural perspective. So it's just really a matter of understanding that there's different cultures in the world. If you don't understand it, learn it or find a way to understand it or if that's not your cup of tea,

it's okay that that person can be able to exercise that culture without it affecting you. Right. Unless you're interested in yourself and just can't do it. And this is the culture that you grew up in. As a Muslim. As a Muslim, right. And then in Senegal in particular, I would imagine that. Oh, yeah.

Our president right now, our president has two wives. Yes. Yeah. Yes. All right. So now, currently, can you say how many wives do you have? I just leave that's your imagination. Is it more than the president of Senegal?

It's entertainment. Okay. All right. So then how about this is that have you, you have recently broken up with one of your wives? That's entertainment as well. That's entertainment. Okay. All right.

So then on this is, and maybe this is entertainment too, is in polyamorous relationships, I've seen that there's different setups. Yeah. Some of the setups are, I think, and I could mispronounce this, but it's sororal. So they are like sister wives. Like they know each other. Right. Get on almost as family.

Others, they don't know each other. Right. In your setup, do your wives know each other or no? That's definitely entertainment. That's definitely entertaining. Okay, okay. All right, how about this one then? Can you say, how many children do you have?

That's entertainment. That's entertainment. Okay, okay. No, but I got the most amazing kids. I got nine all together. Okay. Seven boys and two girls. Seven boys and two girls.

And the setup, that all depends on the person and the understanding. All right. Yeah. All right. So then with the setup, so we had Bree on. and she has a child with Nick, Nick Cannon. Right. And she was telling me about her setup.

And it was interesting is she was saying how it is the most healthy relationship that she has had. But my question to her was, how does she deal with the communication? Because having one partner, that is hard enough. How do you deal with the communication with multiple partners? It's communication literally. Like, it's literally the answer and the solution. You got to be mature enough to know that if this is the situation that I'm going to park in, I have to communicate.

Okay. Okay. This I like, this I don't like. This I'm for. This I'm not for. And this is what I'm willing to, you know, deal with, and this is what I'm not willing to deal with. And once y'all lay down those rules, just abide by them. It's literally that simple.

All right. All right. Like, it's literally that simple. So then in that scenario, though, Right. Do your wives, can they have multiple partners? No. So only you can have multiple partners.

Only man, yep. Okay. But in another setup, you're fine with the wife having other partners. I mean, if that's a setup that works for them. Okay, cool. That's exactly. That's why I said it depends on a person. Cool.

Because I've seen Europeans where you have a girl that has two boyfriends. I've seen it, like literally in Ibiza. Yeah. I've seen it. Yeah. Like with my own eyes. Yeah. And I was looking at, like, Tibet, up in the Himalayans.

Right. They have polyandry where the woman will have multiple husbands. Right. Yeah. 100%. All right. So what are the benefits then do you think to polyamory? I think that would also depend on the situation as well.

Okay. But oftentimes when the family is united in that way, the benefit is more for the woman than it is for the man for sure. Really? Yeah. Because the man actually has to take care of all. of them. He has to treat them all equally. And their responsibility bears on him as well. So it's not just his responsibility, but all their responsibility is also his responsibility. The women, they have partners in this case of unity and understanding where, okay, they can alternate roles

because it's four of them or five of them or three of them or two. They can alternate those rules, whether it's cooking, whether it's cleaning, whether it's taking care of the kids. One may want to take a vacation, okay, cool, y'all go after mommy, sister, whatever, and vice versa. So a woman's role is really to manage the household. So picture one woman managing the whole household versus multiple, and they're working together. Their job is cut in however many wives you may have. If it's four times, and that's four times less work you have to do because you have other sisters that can work out, work with you on those situations.

So in this, or in your structure, are all of the wives equal, or do you have? That's any structure. No matter what structure it is. Oh, really? It has to be. That's the only way it can work. Okay. It can't work if that out equally.

Treat it or treat it equally. But do you have a... I mean, this is going to sound absurd, but like when I have to write... When I have to fill out a form, it's like, who's your emergency contact? Right. And it's my wife. Always going to be the first wife. No matter what.

So the first wife, which is the first one that was... Period. You were married to. Period. Period. Okay. That's always... Because that one...

is the reason why you even got one, two, or three. She's the queen. Interesting. Period. You got to know that. So does the first wife have to approve? Nobody violates the wife number one. The moment they violate out the door. Okay.

Hands down. If you don't understand that, it's entertainment. Okay. You know what I'm going to use this. Oh, that's our new lie. I'm going to say, that's entertainment. Look. I'm going to tell my kids this too.

Yeah, period. She comes first. Okay, but see, I didn't know this. Yeah, period. I didn't know this. So, okay, so I get it. So the structure is more hierarchical. Like, it's, she comes first.

The others. Yeah, because there's levels in the end, you know? Like, she's the one that's actually sacrificing in the end. You know what I mean? Because with new people, a part of your family, there's going to be new attitudes, new mindsets, you know, new behaviors. And they got to deal with that.

Only so that you can be able to do what you need to do as a man. But more than anything, it's a level of happiness that comes with that too. So they got to help preserve even that happiness. So they can even stay happy. All right. So, yeah, they're the queens for sure, wife and them all right. Last question on this is, do you see any downsides, though, especially for your wives in a dynamic like this.

Yeah, in a dynamic like that, you've got to be able to put yourself in their shoes. Even though women have the tolerance, way more pain tolerance than men do, they also have emotional tolerance more than men do. But sometimes you could beg the difference with that because men, we're not good at emotions. That's why when we get emotional, we get violent,

we get rowdy, we get dangerous, right? Well, women, they can suppress those emotions and still be calm. Us, we can't, right? So the one thing I would probably say in that question is that, you know, you got to be able to understand that when they're going through a level of emotional distress, you got to be able to ease that. So you got to be the one to play the role to try to deconvent anything that you feel can create a problem. Okay. Right. You got to pre-think that. Like, you got to already know, okay, to be in this position, I'm already blessed to be in it.

Then I'm even more blessed that these people are sacrificing for me to be in this position. So I should never put them in that situation. All right, fair. Or never put them in a situation where they feel compromised, disrespected, or any kind of way feel unvalued. Okay, okay. Does that make sense? It does. It does. And the only small pushback out there on that is I think that men, we disproportionately have a hard time managing emotions,

but we can. No, we can. We're capable. We're capable, yes. They're just better at, we're socialized. They're just better at that because they know how to multitask emotions.

We don't. Yeah, yeah. Our emotion is drawing to one person at a time. They can love the whole family at the same time. You understand what I'm saying? When it comes to emotions. But when we're angry,

we go to the person we're angry at. When they're angry, they go to everybody to that anger effects. No, no, no. this is this happens you feel me this happens they're mad at you they're mad at the kids too because the kids came from you and they look just like just like you yeah but but i but i think what's great what i say conversations around masculinity today is that we're talking about being able to showcase our emotions being able to not be impulsive because i think that gets a lot of in particular men in trouble all the time because we don't stop and think about it before

we react yeah exactly You know what I mean? Women are planners. Like, they don't just react. They talk, they think about it, they plan it out, then they execute. Then they respond. Us, the moment we feel it, we go right in, then be like, damn, why did I do that?

Damn, I should have thought about that first. You know what I mean? Yeah, true, true. Also, in Utah, polygamy was briefly decriminalized, but made illegal again in 2022. Right. But we know it still happens. No.

And I think what happens... That's just for the books. Exactly. Is that you married... They got TV shows up. He's like, I know I'm right. Imagine if I came out with the TV show, what would have happened? I mean, it would be well-watched, though.

Bro, I'll be handcuffs. I'm going to tell you that right now. Yeah, yeah. They will implement that law. No, you're, no. That's why I never got married. Interesting. So it's not, you're not married, married.

It's entertainment. That's, that's, you're just, I think you would just, I think you just answered it, though. But, all right. Now, is there anything? that you want to talk about that we haven't yet discussed. That's important to you. This is why your heart. Yes, my new album, Beautiful Day.

Let's do it. Yes, so I dropped that, well, I don't know when this is gonna be Aaron, but I dropped it, it's out. Okay. The new album, Beautiful Day is out now. And this is like my fourth, my fourth official album. You can definitely hear the growth from trouble to convict it, to freedom, to Beautiful Day.

Like, you'll be able to see how they align with each other. Yes. And influences and the culture, even on how I even bring back some of like the African rhythms leading into it. Like it just feels, it makes music feel good again. Because for a while, music was very violent,

like it was dark. Yes. You know, a lot of drill rappers was dying. Nobody saw us. It was like, I was like, man, I need something that can just remind people that spirituality actually exists, because that's what we're missing right now.

Yes. So I did it in a way to where it didn't sound preachy, corny, but when you listen to the album, it's gonna make you reflect for sure. That's interesting, too, is that so your spirituality, you believe, has guided you throughout your entire career. 100%. Yeah, because that seems like that has been your through line.

Yeah. Which I didn't realize, you know, before doing the research and having this conversation with you. Man, that's what's up. Yeah, yeah. So then when you were locked up, you had a 10-year plan. Yeah. You basically accomplished it all. Yep.

So now, what's your new 10-year plan? Oh, yeah, it's legacy building now. It's definitely legacy building now. And at the top of my plan, I would tell you, but that's the reason why I've been, you can say, in the media a lot. You got to give it to us. That's why I feel like I'm a target right now because of that plan.

Okay. What's? I would tell you soon. But I'm going to get further down into it before I open up my mouth. Okay, but so you're building towards. Oh, yeah. The next plan is going to submit my legacy like nothing you've seen before in your life. Because you have been in the media lot.

Yeah. So this is specifically around the top of the 10. Yeah. Is there anything on that 10-year plan that you can tell us? Not quite because they kind of all connected. Okay. Yeah, this one is a silent plan. It's a silent plan.

But it's going to be probably the most impactful thing that my generation of ever seen once it's complete. Yeah. And it deals with Africa for sure. It's entertainment. Well, I tell you what, though. This is how I can help you with entertainment. Right.

Is, you know, we're one of the biggest podcasts now. That's the reason why it has to be entertainment on your podcast. because you're too big of a podcast right now. That's the one time that your podcast may not work for me. It might help me. It might fuck me up. You're too big. No, this can help you.

This can be entertainment. This can be entertainment. You could drop a little hint. Right. A little Easter egg. See, the thing about hints today, AI knows how to decipher those hints. Yeah. It's so smart.

Yes. It's so, so smart. I know because I have an AI company, so I'm telling you. Trust me. But I promise you, though, when it's time to announce, yes. I'm giving you my word today. You'll be the one I give the exclusive to.

D. All right? My man. My man. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Absolutely. I hope you continue to change the world.

No, that's what I'm saying. Because I think, you know, you are an artist that has touched everyone. And it's really interesting because everybody knows you. And what I've noticed about you is I've I've I've like I've dropped your name to different people and you know when you say Acon you know what everybody does? They smile. Oh, that's what's up, man. That's powerful.

That's amazing. Because not every artist does that. No, that's true. That's true. Every time I say Acon, people smile. You know, so you got to keep making people smile. That's a blessing, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah.

Last question then. Every guest gets this. You've had some incredible conversations in your life. When you think about the most impactful conversation, who was it with and what did you learn? It would definitely be my grandpa without a question because those conversations till his day, I'll ride with them, like till his day, right?

Because it was something that he told me that was just, that made me think every time, like I either get in front of a platform or get on stage. He would always tell me he got two quotes. One was a quote and one was just something he said for me to think about. The quote was, he said, life is like a hotel room. We're just passing through.

In that quote, it basically tells me that from a perspective of where we stand in life, this is not where it ends. Like, this is just a test. after life it continues somehow some way spiritually I know there's answers to whatever

those questions are that our minds just probably can't process at the moment the same way we can't process the idea of how God looks like feel like smell like whatever those are things that we know exists but we can't put a touch on it to prove it right and the second thing he said you're going to get to a point in your life

when you're going to be able to speak to billions of people and you have to decide what do you say when you get there. Right? So I always use that as a platform for my entertainer friends to have all these social media hits, all these followers, you know, constant people. It was so interesting because this is something I always wanted to give to a very, very good friend of mine who just says whatever he wants to say, whenever he wants to see it on camera. and I know when I say that

you all right know who that is. I know. It's Kanye. No, you said that. I just say that. Yay's in his truth. He's in whatever he feels at that moment. But if you have the chance to speak to a billion people, what do you say? That's the responsibility that he told me that I will always have to carry

no matter what. So strategically, always say something that's going to lead to something that's going to help. humanity in some form, fashion, or some kind of way. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. Is your grandfather still with us? No, he passed. He passed. So then last last question is that when he passed, how do you believe that changed you?

Oh, no. It actually motivated me, believe it or not. Did it? It was the funniest. And I don't want to say funny, but it was the craziest thing because when he passed, most people with the relationship I had with him, you would have thought I would be depressed and crying. I actually felt joy. Did you? Yeah, because it just, I already knew that wherever he was going,

he's good. And I know that at the end of the day, I had an ally in the spirit world that's going to be looking out for me. So it was a joyful thing. And then I also knew that my time is coming, I'm going to be there too. I didn't look at it like I lost anybody.

I looked at it like I gained an ally. ally in the spirit world. Because I know half the stuff that I'll be dealing with that I can't figure out how I'm going to go over it and get over it. I know for sure that my grandpa up there making moves. Like I just feel that way. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because when you have that kind of spiritual advisor on earth talking to you like that, when they no longer exist, the advice is still there. It's an instinct. And how I know it's an instinct is because when I want to make a decision and all of a sudden my grandpa pops up, I know at that moment I'm having that conversation on which direction to go.

Right, right. Does that make sense? No, it does. And do you almost even, do you channel your grandfather when you're making decisions or when you're in certain environments? No, but what's interesting is, I don't, like, physically channel him.

It just, whenever I'm going through a difficult moment to have to make a crazy decision, out of nowhere, his thought, like the thought of him pops up. So it almost feels like, okay, he's guiding me in the direction I need to be going. Yeah, yeah. If that makes sense.

It's weird, right? No, no, I don't think it's weird. You know, I talk a lot about my best friend from Brooklyn. Right. Who passed away. And I normally, like, I see him. Right. And when I'm making a decision, I hear him.

Right, you can just pop up. Yeah, he's like, yo, yo, that's it. You just know. Yeah, and then I know, then I lean into it. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah. Yep. Yeah, it's deep.

I appreciate your time. No, I appreciate you, man. Yeah, keep doing your thing. Keep making people smile. No, for sure. You know, most importantly, and it can't wait to hear what's at the top of your 10-year plan. No. You're going to see it.

You're going to see it. You're going to see it. What's it going to look like? I can't tell you. It's entertainment. All right. But, yeah, thank you for coming through. No, for sure.

Hey, this segment of the show, I think you need to call it it's entertainment. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I'm going to start to say that's entertainment. But it makes sense. Like, you need the entertainment. No, you need it, man. That's so important.

No, thank you, brother. Thank you, thank you. A-Con, one word, charismatic. He's someone who I've heard his music throughout my entire life. And, you know, they say, you know, don't meet the people that you've looked up to or that you've admired from a distance. But he surpassed my expectation. And also, I admire his relentless focus on Africa and unifying people. That's something that is just super admirable because he doesn't have to, right?

you just chill with his millions of dollars, you know. But he is really dedicating his life to the empowerment of others. One of the things that I loved about this conversation was the ability to have discourse. You know, there would be something that Acon said that I might not agree with. I would listen to what he had to say and then I would present my opinion. He would listen to what I would have to say and would agree or do. disagree with it and then we would go back and forth and then at a certain point stop that is what we need more of in society it's conversation it's a great reminder that we can have different views on things

and still get along i'm still going to the concert look out it's con yet i'm like dear god if you are there right now please i need him to come outside so i can say something to him in jesus name and then I was going to kind of you walk right outside, and I said, One of his friends actually came up with the, Don't like his baggage, but I might like what's underneath them. And I was just like, okay, come are you, young sir. And that's it. It took us, like I said, 15, 20 minutes to hit and I left it and went home.

Will there ever be an American boy 2.0? There was a lot of, like, why are you even bothering? I have people who would actively say she's a waste of money and then be happening for me at the Mobos. I feel like the industry is like a death by thousand. What was the moment where you felt like you were on the brink of losing it? Oh, goodness. I was performing everywhere I could.

Any stage I could get to. It doesn't matter the crowd. I'm having a fun time. Behind the talent, they saw the passion. Were you the first person that John Legend signed? He literally started a label to sign me. He believed in me that much. I get off the train at Sandra Pays. It's like one in the morning.

I'm on stage at two. I drink half a bottle of vodka. My body wasn't working. Everything started slowing down. I get to a show and my voice don't want to sing. Is there anything that we have not yet to do? that we have not yet talked about that you want to talk about.