We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - ArrDee on Hidden Addiction and Becoming A Dad

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

ArrDee reflects on the story behind Oliver Twist, Body and his rise as one of the UK’s most recognisable young rappers. He opens up about growing up in Brighton, being raised by his mum, and the complicated relationship with his father that shaped his need for attention, fame and approval. ArrDee shares how music became his way of expressing pain, why he first hid behind the “cheeky” persona, and what really happened when his career exploded during lockdown. He also speaks candidly about the darker side of early fame, from spending his first major advance to partying, addiction, ketamine, alcohol and the moments where he was trying to numb himself behind the success. ArrDee reflects on the guilt he carries around his brother’s psychosis, the pressure of being labelled an industry plant, and how becoming a father has changed the way he sees himself. From music and addiction to fame, family and fatherhood, this is ArrDee on the boy behind the bravado, and the man he is trying to become. ArrDee, We Need To Talk This conversation includes discussion of addiction and mental health. Please watch with care. Support resources are linked below: CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H MIND: https://linkly.link/2dx8b Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow ArrDee here: https://www.instagram.com/arrdeegram/ https://www.tiktok.com/@arrdeetik (00:00) Intro (03:33) How ArrDee’s Name Was Born (04:46) Growing Up in Brighton (06:12) ArrDee’s Relationship With His Mum (07:59) Growing Up Without His Father (14:52) The First Song ArrDee Wrote (17:43) The Song That Changed Everything (20:36) How ArrDee Signed His First Record Deal (26:09) What ArrDee Did With His First Record Deal Money (28:02) The Story Behind ArrDee’s Feature on “Body” (33:24) How ArrDee Wrote “Oliver Twist” (35:08) ArrDee Reads a Letter From His Mum (39:53) ID Mobile Ad (41:03) How Fame at 19 Changed ArrDee (44:57) Making “Oliver Twist” Music Video (50:34) Did ArrDee Struggle With Addiction? (52:19) ArrDee Addresses Industry Plant Accusations (54:35) Being a White Rapper in the Music Industry (01:01:58) ID Mobile Ad (01:04:26) ArrDee’s First Time Meeting His Dad (01:24:32) Why ArrDee Became an Independent Artist (01:34:09) ArrDee’s Relationship With His Brother (01:40:16) Fatherhood and Relationship With Ocean (01:46:05) Fatherhood and Sobriety (01:49:38) ArrDee Receives Letter From Ocean (01:53:31) Most Memorable Conversation (01:57:05) Paul’s Takeaways Sponsored by: iD Mobile: Ditch the texts and ‘Make it a Call’ - your voice is more powerful than you thinkhttps://www.idmobile.co.uk/make-it-a-call?affiliate=marketing%7CYouTube_Display%7CMakeItACall_Brand&utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=Display&utm_campaign=MakeItACall&utm_content=Brand Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm filled with this super guilt. My older brother going in drug-induced psychosis, but like if I could turn back time and not have fame, but have my brother, I would. But before we talk about that, we kind of have to go into how it started. Which is for everybody who hasn't seen, what was your first line?

You've seen the state of her body. If I beat it, I ain't wearing a Johnny. Adiola, I want to roll with a geese. I think the lust for fame comes from not having that attention. As a child, like, I remember my dad was super inebriated. His heart stopped and he wasn't breathing. I'm like attempting to do some former CPR. Obviously I'm 12. But I don't think any of us realize how far it was going to go that quickly. Island records? 150 per single. I hadn't seen a thousand pound in my life at this

point. So then Ardi, what's then the darkest period? Because with light come shape. In the video shoot, I keep swigging a bottle. You can see it in my eyes as well. I'd be talking to the walls. You can't walk. You can't talk. Your legs go. I've never spoke about of this before. Me not being drunk from January to now. That's the longest I've been sober since I was 12 years old. Can you trust this? You had so many hits back to back to back. Were you an industry plan? Hey there. Before we begin the episode, I just want to say thank you for choosing we need to talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life. And I want to continue to share it

with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second. and it helps us to continue to grow this podcast. R.D., we need to talk. Let's have it. All right. So let's start with how you feel right now. Yeah, I am very aware of what you do and I'm a big fan of what you do and I've seen it.

So I know that these conversations are very open and vulnerable. And I'm not afraid of those conversations. I mean, we've just met, you know what I'm saying? So there's a vulnerability, anxiety in that. No, I hear you. What I find most interesting is that we have public figures on who, you know, are at a festival with however many thousands of people in the audience, right, or on TV, millions of people are watching you.

But when they come and they sit in this chair, there is a bit of nervousness. It's far more revealing. Like, I've always said even down to shows on that I, the most nerve-wracking shows I do, are like the, forgive me for people who come to them, the weird industry ones, whereas like 80 people all sat with like champagne just like watching you perform rather than like, once you get past 5,000, 5,000 to 10,000,

there's not much difference because like you're not, it's just like a sea of people now. What's the biggest crowd you've performed in front of? We've done Wembley with Capital. That was a big one. That was a big moment for me. I think I was 20 years old. and I had like my DJ had them chanting RD.

And Wembley, I mean, how many people this? That's 85,000, I think. 85,000. And it was full, it was sold out. It wasn't just me, I didn't sell it out. Still, 85,000 people chanting your name. Crazy, crazy high to come down from as well. Yeah, yeah.

So let's unpack you, man. Go on. I started with R.D., we need to talk. Yes. But you have a government name. I do, yeah. All right, tell me the government name and how we get to RD from that.

Some people find it a cool story. I find it a little bit like, embarrassing, it's not the right words. It's not that cool and interesting. So my full name is Riley Davies, and I was a big M&M fan growing up, was always curious as to how he become Eminem. It's because he's Marshall Mathis,

so it's M&M. So I'm RD. That's it. Yeah, there's not knowing what I'm. story of like no one gave it to me like yeah so you you gave it to yourself then yeah i was in year seven in secondary school it was a not a turmoil time i was really trying to implement it you know like when you try and give yourself a nickname it's not that cool so everyone's like we're not calling you that you know i mean because you're not a rapper you're just you're just riley 11 years

old like because i i'll be it would kind of be like a little joke in school like what are the yeah and i'd be like yeah come on but i know they're taking liberty that i mean you know what i mean So that's why, I didn't realize that. So it's through Eminem. Yeah, literally. You got RD. Yeah. You grew up in Brighton.

Brighton, yeah. How do you think Brighton has impacted who you've become? Looking back now as an adult, I look back at me as my mentality as a teenager and how, like, proud to just be myself or was. And how comfortable I was really in my own skin from such a young age. Like, I started even making music when I was 11, 12. And I don't think this, it's young. But even in a sense of like, I was making my own music, I'd bought myself, my own USB mic,

was uploading it myself onto YouTube. And when people were like, what makes you think you can be a rapper? I'm like, why can't I? Like, I can do anything. And part of that is installation from my mom's mentality and how I was raised. But I do think part of it was from Brighton.

And I think it also is a huge part of me and my career and why people drew to me at a time where like the typical UK rap story is like London or Manchester was and was coming up, you know what I mean? Yeah. But there wasn't necessarily that bright and I was very bright. Obviously, Jordan and Rizelkits were from Brighton,

and they still implemented it, but I was screaming it from rooftops. Every video you could see it was like seaside and I was mentioning it a lot. And yeah, so it plays a massive part and I love it, do you know what I'm saying? Yes, yes. Now, you just mentioned your mother, who, from everything, I've read about you seems to be the most influential figure. She's the goat, yeah. Yeah, in your life.

So could you talk about the early relationship that you had with your mom and how you believe that it changed in your younger years? I was outside a lot as a kid. So my older brother, he's autistic. And so he's two years older than me, but he needed a lot more attention and caring.

And obviously my mum, I'm now looking back, know that she obviously had to learn, first of all, what it is to be autistic and how to navigate that. My brother didn't speak a word of English, didn't speak till he was seven.

Like, by choice. Like, he could. He just made dinosaur noises and stuff like that. Like, we had a good relationship, but I have no animosity to it. It's not like I look back and think, oh, my mum cared about my brother more, like, I love my brother and I love my mom.

And that's what I don't feel like I need, needed it necessarily, you know what I mean? But what it did mean is that I'd be playing out with like the older boys. So I'd be like five, six playing out till late-ish for a five or six-year-old. But it wasn't dangerous because wherever I was, there was a neighbour of some sort that was watching their kid and everybody was all friends, you know what I'm saying? But I remember always being told as a kid that you think you're way older than you are. Like I've always acted like an adult and I used to always want to...

chat and blend and be with the adults, even from down, like, if my mom had all the family over, I would want to stay up later, and I would put on, like, shows and perform. So I used to perform, like, songs from the musical Oliver Twist. My mom would put me in, like, a little, like a little hat and, like, yeah, I would, I'd seen those songs, and it would mean, while they're all drinking and having fun, I would get to stay up later. Right. How much of, and this is a topic that I haven't heard you talk about in detail, so only as much as you want to, but How much of how you were showing up was based on your father not being present with you? When I was a kid, kid, before I'd met him, again, you don't know any different.

So it was like, looking back now, there were definitely times of like the start of like this feeling something's missing, like this hole. But I didn't know it was like, well, it's because my old man's not there because he left when I was two. It was so weird to have not met a human and never have any memory or experience of him and then constantly have your entire family. Like, you're so much like your dad. You're the spit of him. Your mannerisms, the way you talk, your personality.

And I just like, again, it just goes in one there, out of the other. What do you think you learned at that age about yourself? Looking back now, my mom was definitely still my mom and was like a maternal figure. But I'm kind of realizing in this conversation, how we used to navigate things, it was and has always been a level playing field. It's not been like, this is the rules, you need to do this. Any time she did try to do that, they would be rebelled against at the highest level anyway.

So I'm realizing she probably looked at that and thought, right, well, that's not going to work with him. And my mom's good at that. She didn't, like, raise me and my brother the same way. So when you think back as to what you needed, that you were not receiving as a child, what would that be? Attention, I think. I don't believe I would have wanted to become famous if I didn't have the relationship dynamic with my dad that I do.

But so how does, but help me understand how you're learning more about your father, how does that then push you to then want to become famous or want the public's attention. I've wanted to be famous since I was eight years old, like watching Michael Jackson on the TV or like Robbie Williams, like this big kind of energy and I've always been around music as well. Like my mom has always had music playing in the house.

So I think I would have always been musical. I've always liked to make my own music, but I think the lust or whatever, not lust, whatever the word is for fame, comes from not having that attention. And it's like, all, cool. some point a fire was lit that was like even when I was getting the attention it didn't feel like enough and so when I'm leaving there's more and more resentment every time he's in and that and it's like

cool I'm not going to get it from there so I'll get it from everybody else then watch tonight I mean then that hole will be filled obviously it wasn't I'm saying but yeah well said it's well said I get it I definitely get it so then with with your mom help me understand how that then relationship change because with your mom, I'm just so impressed with her. She's incredible. Yeah, yeah. So how did the relationship with your mom change? And then tell me about everything.

Like your mom got like she's got a black belt. Yeah. Yeah, tell me about her. She's just super gangster, isn't it? What can I say? Like, I think our relationship, when we were friends, do I mean, me and my mom were pals. Like even for all the primary school, I've never hid any friends. from my mom, anything I've got up to,

like for better, for words, legal or illegal or naughty or, like, relationships and my drama and troubles with girls, like, just a super open relationship. And I think that was intentional from her. Let's talk music. Yeah. Let's talk music. I am going to circle back to your mom, though.

Yeah. But let's talk music because this is something that I am, I didn't realize until just having this conversation now is how early you knew you were wanted to be famous. Yes. Because this is also a common theme that I've seen among our guests who've all been famous musicians is that early, they didn't know exactly what it was, but they knew they wanted to perform.

Yeah. And they knew they loved the response that they were getting, the attention, right? So you said it was early. Super early. Before I knew it was music, I still knew I wanted to be famous. Okay. We used to get pocket money from my mom. I think it was like five or a week or something at some stage.

my brother used to buy suites. I used to save the pocket money. So I'd at two weeks and buy albums. So like, it was actually early on it was like rock music. I used to love Tenacious D. Oh, Sanation. Yeah. Like Jack Black.

And even like, if you look at how the kind of my character type, if you look at like the humor side of my social media and how I don't take myself too seriously, it's very Jack Black-esque. He was my hero for a long time growing up. Before it was Eminem, it was Jack Black. Yeah, and then obviously at some point it changed and I fell in love with Eminem and and rap and hip hop and I used to love his like, like, you know, like cleaning out the closet.

He's like he's talking about his mom and that kind of, even though he's speaking about his mom and my fingers with my dad, this Eminem spoke to me on a different level. Even his like, fuck everybody and everything attitude was something that spoke to me, massive. I used to listen to a lot of Eminem and then I remember right. in my first, or like, not writing, but coming up with my first rap when I was in like the shower,

I can't remember what it was, but I used to be in an American accent because these times I've never heard a UK rapper. This is in like year five or year four, like primary school. And then I remember the first time I'd heard any UK rap was, it was like a, I can't remember which one was first. It was German whip with Meridian Dan and that's not me by Skeptor. And this is all kind of leading into secondary school.

You know, this is so fascinating to me is that now having talked to so many people who have become famous, right? I see that there is a formula. And the formula is exactly what you mentioned. Part of it is this belief almost to the point where people think. It's delusion. I wouldn't even say it's belief. Like there wasn't, I didn't believe it. I knew it.

You knew it. Yeah, you knew it. I couldn't see me doing anything else as an adult. And part of that. comes from like just something innate. The other part of it comes from, you've seen it, you see your mother is achieving incredible things, right?

You got that. The other part, so that's one. The other part of the equation, two is need for attention. Yeah. Third levels of trauma that feed all of this. These three things together,

I see, is now like, you know. So what do you think was the first song that you wrote? The first song that I wrote, we spoke on it earlier. There's a group in Brighton called Audioactive. Jordan's been a massive part of them and they come round to my school, Hove Park and I was made aware of it and I remember coming to the music room after schools at 3 o'clock.

And Hattahawall voucher this is a guy from Brighton. He's part of Audioactive but also his own musician and he come and I was refusing to leave the classroom and so I heard the teacher say like cool that these are the kids that want to be a part of it he's not supposed to be here he will eventually leave um just don't even bother like it's just not worth the act kind of thing like it's basically what said obviously that made him instantly gravitate towards me and he's like what's happening mate i'm like yeah what's kind of on bath him and i showed him his lyrics and he was like i can't remember if he cried or not obviously it was like what you're talking about is heavy stuff i also remember that

be in the start of like the school getting involved. They didn't, what they were, were they making fun of? Yeah. They were making fun of, I mean, were they making fun of you or your music or what was it, or both? All of it, like, remember, I'm, I was, I was small in schools. I would, like, not bullied, I was never, like, no one could have ever bullied me, in it? But my height was always taking the piss out of anyway, which obviously eventually gave me,

as I'd come later into a teenage, a small man syndrome. wanting to fight to prove that just because I'm little one like the da-da-da-da. But I remember the first one, I remember really getting taken a piss out. I wasn't this one. No one had heard this one yet. They'd made, they'd played it in assembly and I remember feeling so embarrassed and it was something that I'd kept with me for so long. Even to this day now, that memory gets associated. Any time someone plays me like something deep of mine, so like I've got like the fire in the brief I've done with Charlie Bruce, for example, where I talk about like what's happening, what's going

with my brother or whatever. I don't know. you probably couldn't play that around me because it reminds me of like when I made the song, I used music as venting. And so I'd made that song and they played it in assembly for everyone to hear. Even like once I'd blown, like some of like the earlier, deeper things I'd done,

like there's a black box that's kind of like a little fan favourite. It was done before I was famous. Yeah, 2019. 2019. Yeah, 2019. Yeah, you got it right. Yeah, you got it there.

But that I remember like when people would play it or like I'd hear certain bits of it, it would weird me out because it's like it's I wouldn't tell you that story if I just met you off the road but I'm putting it online for everyone to hear so then that's interesting that that's how you started yeah sorry and then because

because then it seems like you went from that which is this very vulnerable state of expression yeah to then was was the next I would say was the breaking moment cheeky bars cheeky bars was the breaking moment so I'd left secondary school went to a college called Northbrook and it was like an arts college.

I met a guy called Biggs, the engineer. Shout out Biggs. He was from Crawley and worked at a studio in somewhere in London and I'm just sitting in on his studio sessions, yeah? Like, I'm not making music. So he's recording another artist that's either paying him

or a lot of the time he didn't get paid. That's another story. Eventually I saw he moved to a different studio in Woolwich and the guy who owned that studio, eventually became my manager at the time, my first manager. He,

and so I used to go there. And he had something different about him. Do you know what I mean? I could tell he knew the industry a lot better than anybody else I'd met. He'd blown other artists up. So he was, he's managing Dino at the time. I used to play my music to him.

And he would basically be like, his shit, his shit. And that's, it was building up. He wouldn't say it rudely, like that, we'd be like, that's not the one. And I love that because everyone else I played my music to, they're like, yo, bro, like, this is sick, man, this is sick, I'll shout you and no one shouts you.

So this is the first honest industry feedback I've got, but he was still giving it the time. And I remember I used to, again, sit on Bigses sessions and whatever. And he used to tell me I was talented, but he was like, bro, you know what I don't get about you? And I was like, what? And he was like, I used to come to the studio, with like my magnums or like, might be girls,

or like, just whatever's going on. And he's like, you've got this, like, mad fun cheeky energy about you like that's i this version of you on the music i'm hearing i don't know him and he's like and it's amazing that you can do it but it's like you you're trying to sell like your vulnerability and your whole story before anybody's listening but so his his method was like why don't you just be you and so wrote cheeky bars i wrote it in my loft bedroom i'll stay at worthing at the time the the heating didn't work in the yard so I had bare bubble wrap like you know like them loft windows come down I had

bubble wrap around all of them so they would like the insulation was dog shit the room hadn't been converted properly recorded it mixed and mastered it myself did you yeah yeah in my bedroom with a I think it's like a 200 pound mic 200 pound mic and how old were you 18 you were 18 so so then you put that out and then what's the reaction yeah it was crazy and so fast I can't remember what it done it Like, I don't think the views were that mad, but people were talking about it. Like, I had 10,000 followers. I didn't have a TikTok account. Oh, wow.

And cheeky bars was flying mad organically. Fair of mind, this is all in lockdown, yeah? So I'm having all this mad virality, but we haven't left the house in two years. I haven't been outside, you know what I mean? So then labels are asking, but they're asking to send music. They're saying, you know, COVID restrictions, we're not allowed to call on meetings. Okay. So obviously my man is just like, let's just sit.

They send the music. I'm going, nah. And he's like, what do you mean? Nah. And I'm like, any of them that want to hear him, have to come and meet me. And it was partly because I knew I didn't quite have the record that I know what I mean?

I hadn't had Oliver Twist yet. And the first people that come, the first people at the door on the day, this is in this tiny little container studio, bearing in mind, some of them have been like, okay, well we're not coming then because we're not allowed. I'm like, cool, then you're going to be the label that missed RD. That's fine, no problem.

You're very confident. But because I'd had this confidence a little bit of like, this is my moment, and then she'd keep up I went, in my head now, I'm the Oracle. Like, I can, I can see what's about to happen. Right. And I'm so, so sure of it. So it didn't bother me.

Like, when I think about it, it was madness. I could have lost out on some big opportunities. It's a good job. It turned out all right. But, yeah, so Island Come. Sorry, Island Records. Island Records, yeah. Dan Lloyd Jarre.

And I remember actually, this is such a label move, yeah. I was very, like, cheeky on my social still. and my mum, if I used to go to studio, my mom would still make me a pat lunch, in it? Because like, even though, it's mad. Even though I'm 18, yeah? Oh, my God. Like, even though I'm 18, mentally I'm still like 15, 16,

because the world comes to a whole, even though 16 is still too old to be having a pat lunches, but I used to love my mom's pat lunches. And even though she'd always put knick-knacks in them, and that's my favourite crisp. And I took a photo, and I was like, baddest Chris in England, no one can tell me anything different. Get to the studio, these lot have bought, like,

there must have been 800 packets of knickknacks spread across this studio like banter, but almost like, yeah, like, you know, we can see you like knickknacks and that was my first taste of like, forgive my language. I call it label slagness, isn't it? It's like that kind of,

yo, we do we do really care, do you know what I'm saying? And not that they didn't anyway, but yes, I know, Dan, Alex and Sam, they've come and I'm pissing with sweat. I'm jumping around and performing in these guys straight. I'm doing the bobbish murder. Just there's no table, do you know what I mean?

And that was, I think, the first time my, because my manager was willing to like take this some of the way at the time. I don't think he realized, I don't think any of us realize the extent of how far it was going to go that quickly. But I think that was one of the first moments. Again, I could see his approval. And I remember wanting his approval. This was now a new male adult figure in my life.

Great point. And like he's, he's cool, you know what I mean? He's got like that he'd, uh, He's in that life, do you know what I mean? And also he used to be an artist as well. So he knows the game. But I remember seeing in his kind of eyes, he didn't expect the meeting to go like that.

So obviously they've left now and we've got a load of different meetings set up and he was like, that was sick. Like basically I didn't know you was gonna do that. And so what we'd done, by the time, we had every label near enough knock by the end of it and we'd had this kind of thing. I was, even though I was very business-minded,

We would sit and plan together what we're going to say to them, what we want, but I would let him do it. So we'd come up with it together, and then I would play the character of just this cheeky young kid. So the island of come, and I can't remember. I think the offer at the time, I'll speak about the money. I've never spoke about the money before, but I'll speak about it. I think what we were trying to get was 60 grand for an EP, which is like six or seven tunes. It has to be 25 minutes long, whatever.

And remember at the time, so EMI was also under university. and a guy, the industry with Archie was there was a guy that worked there. I think he might have been the president, Archie's name is, isn't it? I'd been made aware he was offering quite a bit more than what everybody else. So he was the only meeting we took that didn't come in real life done over the phone. But I knew I wasn't going to go with him. He was, and this is again, like a plan, I'd said to my manager, I was going to, so I'm going to use him as a pawn.

And we just threw like a wild figure out there. I think Archie had offered something like 70 or 80. and we had told Ireland that he'd offered 150 for two singles, so not even a project. And obviously he hadn't done. But they were just so mesmerized by like, my character and I played and all these people that come to the meetings. They were like, well, we'll match it, we'll match it.

Do you know what I'm saying? And so, yeah, got that over the line. And it was, it was 150 per single. We got, so two songs, 300 grand. I'd never, I hadn't seen a thousand pound in my life at this point. That I'm saying. So this is wild. Obviously me, we're gas- And you're 18.

We're 18 mental. It's one of these where you've probably just now seen more money than your mother is made. Yeah, and at the time where I was living, we'd been, we had to leave Port Slade, couldn't afford that, and then we'd been kicked out on one of the houses in Worthing, went to another house in Worthing, and then just been told that we had to leave that one. Yeah, but regardless, we were leaving that house. Do you know what I mean? And within that time frame,

I'd got that money. And so it was like, it doesn't matter now. Do you know what I mean? I don't know what our plan was going to be. I'd have to ask a moment, like, what was going to happen if I didn't blow out at that point? It probably would have been like scrapes some money together and move somewhere else again.

You know what I mean? What did you do with the money? Pitched it out of the week. I didn't. I didn't, yeah. With that first 300, I didn't save. penny even for the tax man. I didn't even know what what tax was and at the time tell her like no,

because obviously you get um 150 up front and then the other 150 once everything's done. At the time I'd made a limited company like a week before company's house made a revolut or a Stalin bank or whatever it was and then get the notification while I'm playing call the duty with my bedroom 150 just landed in my bank. Matt like I remember the first first things I went and bought I went to selfridges in London and I dropped like seven grand on like every Stone Island jumper I could find. Obsessed with Stone Island

every I got every colour colour, like the orange and blue. Just like ones that you wouldn't even go with nothing. Like just mad, abstract Ralph Lauren polos. A Gucci man bag, a black Ralph Lauren track suit. That was later than the outfit that I wore

for 6am. And then, bro, the rest of it got put on, I was getting like, you can get like these apartment hotel things in London. It's not Airbnb's. They're like hotels, but each one is an apartment. I was just getting them and just, it was a waste of money.

What I was doing was getting them in London. But because I didn't know any girls in London, I was just bringing the girls up that I knew from Brighton to London to get pissed off and have a good time. And it's like, yeah. Yeah, it all went to nothing, basically. Yeah. You're 18.

You're 18. So then. And then take me through the highlights of being on top because it feels like you went from that, which was a monumental moment for you. But then things got just bigger. Yeah, it went mad. So we've done 6 a.m.

And we actually shot it at 6 a.m. And these times all my friends, I'm like, I'm bright and famous now. So now all my friends are getting in the videos and they're around and we're staying at hotels and we had birds at the hotels like the night before because now in my head I am acting. This like rock star, lifestyle,

Tion Wayn had followed me from cheeky bars, DM me after 6 a.m. and was just like, yo bro, you're cold. Yeah, it all happened so quickly. So these apartment hotels that I was going to that I was telling you about, and now one of these again, got a few pals with me, a few birds there, whatever,

and it's a code to get in. Past midnight, the receptionist obviously goes home. It's a code to get in, and some G-wagon's pulled up, a couple blacked-out cars. Bair, man, like these cars are full. and most of them have got ballys on, isn't it? So I'm like, obviously I've heard, like, not horror stories,

but this is London, you know, I'm this little 18-year-old boy from Briad, I don't really know what I'm doing, I ain't got no security with me, someone jumped out, and they're like, yo, yo, what's the cold? And I was like, again, the best way to navigate this situation is to just put my big smile on. Obviously, I had my hood up on that, but I've taken my hood down and, you know, like,

seem friendly and whatever. They're like, what, is that RD, yeah? So I'm like, oh, my days, I've just been, like, fan love, boom, bum, bum, bum. And then I'm like, yeah, yeah, who's that? Taking the ballet off, his tea on Wayne. Wow. So his breadroom was having a birthday, like the floor above us.

So he's like, yo, come up, say, yo. And I was out of my depth, you know, they've got, like, model birds in there. Like, I'm there with, like, you know, like some girls from Brighton. And they're kind of just, like, friends from school. But we're all, looking back now, I met, like, and looking at even videos with me, I looked very young. And, like, we all felt quite young. And obviously he's there, like, loads of his bread jeans, and there's yak everywhere.

But he was talking to me about body. And he's like, yo, we're gonna do, he didn't have the remix yet, they'd done the original. I don't know if the original was out or not. I always forget that part, but he's like, yeah, we're gonna do a remix, like, boy, my body, you on it. And then, um, so I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool. And I remember at the time, he was advised.

I'm not gonna say the person's name, because we get a long fine now, but advised by someone high up within his label at the time that he shouldn't get me on it. That basically I didn't deserve the opportunity just yet. It was too early. Don't really know where my career is gonna go or like if it's if it's just like a little a blip which is obviously a lot in the time it is

but tion's always had a mad foresight i believe in terms of like spotting people early and he's like that and he brings people in as well what do you think it was about you the situation that made tion push through the advice not to put you on that's that song because clearly that that song was that's another massive moment massive moment that's like to some people that's the start you know what i mean I mean, unless you are, not on, I mean, if you're even an average fan, you might know cheeky bars at 6 a.m. But like, in terms of like global and commercial commercial, his body is the start and all of that, right? I didn't act like I was hard.

I was smiling. It was very like, cheeky chippy, chappy was the only way I could put. And that is me. It wasn't inauthentic, you know what I'm saying? And I think he brought into that. And I don't know, saw something. Yeah. So he put you on and you said that a lot of people.

may think that was the beginning. But why so? Because that song, it won a mobile award. You won a mobile, it went number one in England. It went number one in France. It went number one in Australia, I think. You got like, I think it got six or seven number one. It sounded wild like that.

It's incredible. Mental. How did that song change your career? It was mad because we knew it was going to happen and it was actually delayed. So I wrote quite a few verses for it. And then we ended up going to be. with the one that we believe will go the most viral.

We knew this was the moment. It's like we could super flex the pen. And I did a bit, but it wasn't like, that's not the goal of this right now. The goal of this is to capture everyone. The first line has got to be like, what did he just say? Which is obviously it did happen.

Which is for everybody who hasn't seen, what was your first line? You're in the state of her body. If I beat it, I ain't wearing a Johnny. That's the line that went off. And I think Tion, and Russ were very intentional of like they covered each area. So it's like, Fivio, Foreign, America, Bugsy Malone, Manchester, R.D. Brighton.

Obviously, those guys from London, like, then they had darker, like, the female artist. Like, every base that could have been covered was covered. It was five days in, it was going, but it wasn't super viral. Like, it wasn't, and we were like, like, maybe it's not going to have this mad moment. And then literally overnight, so I think it was the sixth day. because it went number one on the second or third week. The sixth day, America, I picked up on it and I was seeing all like the corny, like dances being done to it

and like the frat boys doing it. Mia Khalifa done a TikTok to it. So at this point, I'm losing my mind. And I still don't at this point really understand TikTok. My label had made me make an account. And I was telling them, like, this app's just going to be some phase. Obviously, I was wrong. No one could use this.

But how does that then change your career? Well, obviously it just goes absolutely bonkers. We had to restructure the whole plan. And at the same time of body being done, we were going in studio. And again, my manager at the time, very honest. None of the songs were quite the right ones. So we were, I recorded like three or four in this one session with a producer engineer called Jojo. And my manager had fell asleep, which is never a good science.

In a studio session. And then I'd put the beat on for Oliver Twist. It was just a YouTube beat. And the maddest thing is, I wrote Oliver Twist the day. You know that? I told you about that notification at 150 coming. I wrote Oliver Twist that day. And I was on FaceTime to My Brethren when the money landed.

And I was on FaceTime to him. I was playing Call of Duty in my room. And I was going through YouTube beats. I weren't like, I weren't properly playing it. It's just like, you know, like you're playing online with your friends. Like, he's on a lobby and I'm quitting and whatever. I was like AFK, so I'm scrolling through beats. And so I wrote the.

the hook and the verse or some of the first verse while on FaceTime to my mate so I've got like Call the Duty on he's there, Money's just landed, beat player, the most ADHD environment ever. That is, that is.

And then I'd realize this is sick I'm like, oh, I'm going to end it, I'm going to throw myself into this so then wrote the rest of that song so then either ways, I didn't know how good it was so I'm recording all these other ones that I believed were better

and then played the beat I said the first line, I just wanted some more, I'll have a twist because before I record, I rap the song to, like, I've got a couple powers in the studio and that with me and the engineer, obviously. And my manager on my life sat up, like, The Undertaker, like, was fast asleep in this chair, like,

and then heard me say that line, sat up and was like, record that. That's the one. I have two surprises for you. Okay. If I can. Yes. Ready for this first one? Yes, go, yeah.

All right. I would like for you to read this. Oh, dear. So Smiley Riley on the first. I can make a decent assumption as to who wrote this one. You know what's funny is something was nearly revealed to me within this moment and I thought someone might have approached my mum. And my mom is a terrible liar and I was in the car of the other day.

And I was like, you haven't been asked any questions about this. And she lied so well. I genuinely believed her. She was like, I don't even know what you're talking about. You asked you if she had been approached by you guys or if anybody had asked. I just had a feeling, do you know what I mean? Your mom is a legend. Can I even? She is a legend.

Dear Riley, when I was asked to write this letter, I thought, we talk so much, what can I possibly tell him that he doesn't already know? But then I thought, often I send you songs that remind me of you or our relationship. And that's other people's words. So here are mine. from the day that I knew you were coming into this world I loved you what I didn't know is what a force you would be to reckon with you defied all stages you were meant to be at

walking and talking before I could blink you had this light in you that shone so brightly my little smiley Riley I would always say this boy has been here before she did used to say that a lot I used to think what the fuck does that even mean but yeah I used to say this boy had been here for. Your ability to read emotions in a room and the empathy that you radiated was and still is wondrous. But I often wonder at what cost to you. I hope you know what a beautiful human

you have grown to be. When I think back to your teen years, I'm so glad that I hung on to those battle ropes no matter how hard you tried to shake them. There's nothing a cheese ham, chorizo and chili mayo sob can't fix. I told you I like my mom's pat lunches. I know. You tell the truth. No matter how mad I get slash got at things you did slash do, sneaking off to Essex to an Essex studio at 14, I could never and still can't stay mad at you. You have all this to come,

and I'm so grateful to be able to be part of this new chapter of life that is unfolding. I've never been so proud of watching the man you were during your daughter's journey into the world. The devotion, support and the way you advocated for your love, your baby's mummy was beautiful. It gave me a glimpse of the dad that you are going to be. I always think it's a funny statement when people say about your music career, you must be so proud of him. Because you are doing what you always wanted to do from the age of five and your first karaoke machine, what 50 cuffs, which is a line from the Oliver Twist. well the line is what 50 cuffs

but I used to say because I couldn't quite get my words out what 50 cuffs and that was one of the songs I used to perform I'd do anything that was that was that what I am proud of is your tenacity your belief in yourself and your work ethic something I know you will pour into your daughter

if I can give you one piece of advice it's not about parent and hacks or how to raise her it's simply listen to the little things because if you listen to the little things She'll tell you the big things, even if the big things make you want to explode inside. And so, thank you for always trusting me with the little things. I will love you as long as the stars are above you.

Please don't ever feel like you're less than perfect, even if you do start to dress and dance a bit like your dad. Amazing. Just perfect. Absolutely perfect. How's it feel like it that from your mom? Yeah, I don't really love. what to do with myself now i feel childlike a little bit do know what i mean like i've just been sung

like the first praises that i got sung when i performed for the first time is how i feel reading that letter so it's obviously making me a little bit fidgety as well yeah i could see your your body language has changed yeah um but while there's this i think some people say it's uneasy but to me it is like you've gone back yeah that little boy yeah and he's getting that approval that he always thought he needed elsewhere that he always had right there the whole time. I'm working on a great initiative with ID Mobile and Mental Health UK. Science tells us that hearing a voice over a call can lower our stress, boost our mood and even help us to rebuild connections. So they're asking you to ditch the text and make it a call instead.

I'm going to admit something to you. I'm a chronic texter. I'm the worst person in the world to front this. You're not going to listen to me. Why would you? But you might listen to someone you know. So I had an idea. Flo with me on this.

For the next few weeks, instead of ads with me in them, I'm giving up this seat right here to those people who've been waiting for you to phone them. And for the next few episodes, you'll be hearing from them instead of me. So these folks will have just one ask. Ditch the text and make it a call. Hello?

I've got to take this. Hey there, I just want to share a content warning. This episode includes discussion of addiction. If you or someone you know need support, we've included resources in the show notes. Please take care while watching. So Oliver Twist, here's the thing that I'm most interested about that is that But you said that when you were a young boy, you would perform Oliver Twist. Mad, isn't it?

Like the most full circle moment ever. So again, at this point, I'm like, I am the Oracle. Like, the world is revolving around me. Like, what I command is coming into my life, you know what I'm saying? That's the way I'm feeling at that time. Like, it's almost like a God complex, a little bit. Exactly. So this is where I wanted to go because you're still, what, you're 19?

Yeah, just turned 19 Yeah, you just turned 19 I'm bearing in mind as well I see what I say to people a lot And it's something that eventually made me Like ended up in a dark place at some point And it was hard to navigate Because I had turned 18 in lockdown

All of this happened Even body was like still kind of lockdown Like the world haven't gone back to normal By the time, clubs and just public spaces were open again I never experienced the world In adulthood as somebody who,

who wasn't somebody. Do you know what I mean? I've never queued up for a club. I've never attended a club as like a, I wouldn't say a normal person, because obviously I am a normal person, but you know what I mean? It's like, it's been bottles

and I haven't had the feeling of being turned away or like, do know what I'm saying? I didn't get to experience none of that. It's been VIP. And obviously I'm not getting my little violin up because it was a blessing, do know what I'm saying? Yeah, but no, no, but I think it's all interesting. Yeah.

And especially too is right around that time, 18, 19, you're trying to figure out your identity. Yeah. Who are you? But then your album comes. Yes. All right. So in the album, number two on the UK album chart.

Yeah. Right. Crazy. It's mad. Stayed in the charts for 33 weeks as well. Because a lot of artists will get like a chart position and then it will fly out the next week. It's stayed in the charts for 33 weeks. That's over half a year.

Wild. Toot my own horn a little bit. Yeah, I mean, be proud of that. Be proud of that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just success. After success, after success.

Mm. All right. So now, what, when you reflect back in that period, what was the highest high for you? What was the moment that just still, it feels surreal? It could be performing at a festival somewhere. It could be meeting someone who you never thought you would meet. But what's the surreal moment for you?

It was all so fast. I don't know if I could pin it to one moment. There's a few. So, like, buying my mom, my mom wanted, my mom had a mini, but it was an old mini. Mum's favourite car, dream car, has always been a mini. And so her partner, who's now her husband, bought her the one she had,

I kind of won off to him and bought her a brand new mini. That made her cry. That was a surreal moment. So then, Ardi, what about what's then the darkest period? Because with light comes shade? Yeah. I don't necessarily know if I would have known at the time it was the darkest period.

But with all of this, that wasn't the solution. Like, there's still something I'm yearning for. I'm still, like, problematic. I'm still constantly trying to numb myself. You have to remember, like I said to you, the first time I've tried any substances of any form was, like 12. By the time I'm 15, like, me and my mates are getting pissed all the time. And we're all problematic kids, you know what I'm saying?

I now know that. It was a confusing time because it didn't make me sad. I wouldn't say, like, my darkest point was also my highest point. but I wouldn't say to you any of that period was my highest point. I would say I was super, super numb because it was like I was not caping

what I was rapping. We was rock star living. We was doing a lot. Like the video shoot, I've never like, I never really dove into kind of my habits or like how bad it eventually got. But I mean I suppose here's the place to do it. Yeah, I mean, I think what's so helpful

about this is that looking at the image I wouldn't know that you were entirely numb Like No, who's not And I could turn it on like that So the Oliver Twist music video Um

We shot in two parts And so for the first day We've done like the tattoo shop scene The scene of me on the I-360 The red jacket of my mates And throughout the whole day We was drinking I'm doing balloons

I'm doing whatever else During the video shoots And I'm doing this at work which, and it's normalised. This is my first, like, proper high production video shoot. And again, part of my thing, not even just as a brand, but as like a person, my old thing was like, no one can out drink me.

No one can out party me. And again, that's what my old man used to say to me. Like, when I was a kid and we used to have a few drinks or get up to whatever, he was like, he'd be like, when you want to shut out of title, come for it. So on their shoot, though, you're saying that you drank the whole time. The whole time, I'm off, like by the end of it, that tattoo scene of me, where I'm tattooing Adiola.

This is obviously after the body line has gone off She's in the shop Yeah, I'm pissed up my head But in that scene when I look back at it Like you can see it in my eyes as well I've done Because in the video shoot I keep swigging a bottle

Which they wanted but they told me yo Like don't actually sip it And I'm like what like I'd get annoyed at people For saying shit like that to me like what You think to my fans I'm going to fake the lifestyle And then the next day So we had to do a pickup shoot Half the video was done

Second day Okay I'd gone out the night before and was doing, I'll let people draw their conclusions. I'm clubbing and drinking, girls, pies. I've ended up back at some random uni gaff. I've never spoken about any of this before,

but it feels weird to me to speak about because in that time, this was a big part of my life that we quite intentionally hid. Like, because the cheeky, fun, the life of the party guy, is less endearing if you were to see the full extent of it. And we were aware of that.

And so we kind of hid it even, like, slightly from my label. So forgive me if I, like, stutter a bit because I'm not, I'm not used to talking about it, you know what I'm saying? And I remember, I'm checking the time, I'm like, fuck. And I was ignoring my manager. My plan was to not turn up to this.

And this is the start of my career. I'm doing this already. And it's like, I look back, like, how could you be so almost self-destructive and detrimental to something that you wanted and what's so hard for so long? We got in the car, and I'm saying to my manager, you can't send me to the video shoot, I'm not doing it.

And he's like, this is your own doing. And they have spent money. And this is, you are too early in this signing and in this relation. And he was 100% right. I don't think he was like forcing me or like exploiting. He was saying, like, this is your,

your own doing and what do you want us to do everybody's there so you're going to have to go down and oh at least again i'm an adult you know what i'm saying and i'm at like a little boy at this point my tell too no i can't da da da da da so i'm absolutely finished these i haven't slept for like what's it over 24 hours now so i've gone out at 10 o'clock at night it's now like one o'clock in the afternoon the next day i'm still going to keep myself going i'm drinking still and i'm doing whatever else but as soon as there's that action the smile was on you you you pop it eyes what wide open like I don't think you would watch that video and could tell that on one half of the shoot day I hadn't slept it's sad for me to say but some of those moments around I'm supposed

to be so so up I'm not down but I'm not really up either like I'm basically just not always pissed up but even when I'm not pissed up I'm I am in autopilot mode like I'm very detached because my my whole character or essence that I'm selling even though it is me it's a role that I'm playing and have developed from a young wanting something child. And I was constantly like escaping myself as a person who had all these feelings and like undelt with mentalities and problems. Try venting to let's say like a pal that you grew up with who is working on site, bricklaying Monday to Friday and try to like venting to like venting.

you're paying to him and see how they react and then see if you'll ever do it again because you don't. You're like, well, it's falling on deaf ears. I'm still struggling to make ends meet. And I'd swap with you in a heartbeat type shit, do not what I mean? So then you stop doing that. Like, why would I then be vulnerable?

Because you start to feel guilty for feeling shit still. It's like, why do I still feel shit? Do you know what I mean? When you keep that in, opposed to venting it to someone, what does that do to you um i had you like i had this weird complex whereas like i said to you earlier like i hate sympathy and then i'm feeling sorry for myself and then i mangri at myself i'm feeling sorry at myself and so it but the solution to all of it was always drink drugs and party the celebratory drink drugs and party and that i feel like shit so i'm going to go blow off steam

drink drugs and party in and yeah so again it just led to more numbing. Do you believe you had an addiction? 100%. 100%. And I've always been very careful, or wary of speaking on this because I didn't want to be the person that touches and all of this and still carries on doing it. So just for like context, me not being drunk from and on whatever else, from January to, what is it now, nearly April. That's the longest I've been sober since I was 12 years old, which is a long time.

That's profound. Especially now having a kid that makes me sad. Like, and I said it to my mum and there's, I'm sure, touch on them, like there were loads of times where my mum was super worried about me because like I say, with all of those hires and everything, like you said, like me having that God complex, hit after hit, and Australia tour, Europe tour and all these tours, I was doing craziness, I was doing, again, like what I thought rock stars did

and it was like trashing hotel rooms and having people, like stupid amounts of people back for after-party, after parties and like, again, just doing everything I thought I should be doing. And then you have like an industry low where maybe a song doesn't connect. It's not hit after hit after hit forever. You have, the industry is waves and I'm aware of that now.

But when you come into an industry, so off clean off the bat, like nothing went wrong. Even a little moment, like I remember a song of mine, Hello Mate, when this is a summer record we've done, but it went number 30 in the charts. Amazing. That's a good outcome. Wasn't for me, though.

I was absolutely like, no, like, that's not it. I've gone number one, number five, number four. Like, Flowers was in the chart. So I had Ed Shear and Adele, Elton John. They were the people I was in common, like, surrounded by a good company, isn't it? Next level, it's good company. You know, then, can you address this, if you're willing to talk about this? You had so many hits back to back to back,

that there were industry plant accusations. Yeah. You know, and I want to, so we found, so Complex Magazine, they were talking about what an industry plan is because people will, you know, debate over the definition. So Complex said, an industry plan is an artist whose success comes

from their music industry connections rather than their artistic merit or genuine interest from fans. So this could include labels using paid social posts in manufacturing, viral trends. Yeah.

Were you an industry plan? Absolutely not. It makes me laugh. How could I have been? I'm the white rapper from Brighton. You can't. That has to be received well. Otherwise, it doesn't go.

You can pump 10 million quid into that from the jump. If I'd have been pumped like that from the jump, it wouldn't have worked because you have to have that validation, especially I believe anyway, in rap and hip hop. You have to earn your right because it's not about, like especially I think the term industry plant doesn't exist anymore, full stop today, even for pop acts.

If you look at like, I call it like the Simon Cow method of like taking different people and planting it, like because of social media and because of algorithms and stuff, it just doesn't work. Like the, even how label structures work nowadays, that you get signed and they'll sign you for however much and whatever. It's still your job to get their record off the ground. I have to do the TikTok.

The comments have to engage in it. People, real-life human beings have to use the sound. Like, you can't, you can't inauthentically do that. Do you know what I mean? It's one of those where every, I think, not every, but many of the artists that I've talked to who have had extreme success in a short period of time, people will say industry plant. I remember when I young blood sitting right here.

Yeah. And there were accusations, industry plant. And what he was trying to underscore was. is how much pre-work. Yeah, you just don't see it. Yes. And then also an aspect that we haven't talked about specifically, but you've mentioned a few times, you're like,

and I'm a white rapper. I mean, let's talk about being a white rapper in the industry. It was a weird one. I'm also not blind to like, I think I've always put it as it's a little bit harder to get people to be interested at first as a white rapper. because it's not typically a white space. And then especially, like,

I was very aware of the fact that I was also my lyrical content and what I was rapping about was obviously it's not, like not just white people party, but it was more typically that world. I'm talking about drugs and parties and turning up and lit. And obviously, everybody does that, but how I was portraying it felt very white, with no better terms to put it, do you know what I'm saying?

Yes, yes. And so I was aware of that as well. And some people didn't like that and it's completely understandable. You know what I mean? Especially when rap and hip hop and the culture itself, the essence is essentially how it started was a voice for those who wanted their stories to be heard. And like you go back to like mob deep and all that kind of stuff. That's where I say like the essence of hip hop.

And obviously this is different because we're in UK and it's an offspring of grind that we're doing. and it's drill now and it's obviously all evolved. So, yeah, there was a lot of awareness. And I'm also aware that once it went, in terms of how these labels view it, and I'm not saying this is right, by the way, either, but how they view it as a business is like, okay, well, he's a UK artist

and rap is what's cool. And it's made cool by the culture. And now this white guy is a face that more, there are more white people. in the UK, then there are any other ethnicity, do you know what I'm saying? And so their dollar signs in their eyes start going ka-ching because people are drawn to what they can relate to,

do you know what I'm saying? And so there's definitely an unfair benefit in that. And so I always tried to like, it's a weird complex, I always tried to make sure that people knew I was aware. So then, do you feel like you were, you were, you know, used in part by the industry because you were white? In terms of what? Like other artists or?

Yeah. So in terms of rap music, right? Because I think this, to me, this is such a fascinating topic. Because what I'm understanding from you is that you came out with these very vulnerable raps. Yeah. very story, it was all storytelling. And I'm with you.

I mean, I'm from New York. I'm from the origins of hip hop. That's the essence. That's the essence. It was, as we used to say, like, it was the CNN of the streets. Yes. It was saying exactly what was happening. What was going on, yeah.

And it wasn't, it didn't start a party. Like, it did not. Yeah, and that come about, I believe, more like dipset and like the locks and that. That was when rap started changing a little. bit. It definitely changed. And I would say even preceding that a little bit, you know, it had started to change. But it started from, yes, a very, this is the struggle, this is our struggle.

And this is our struggle as a black culture. This is our struggle. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so for you to say that, you know what, the record company saw me and they were like, you know what, because I'm white, they could use me to reach these fans who are predominantly white, and I could speak to it. And on top of it, I'm not going to, they don't want you to speak about the struggle, your struggle coming up.

They want you to speak about the party lifestyle, popping pills, etc. Yeah. So then that being said, do you feel like literally they used you because you are white? I don't know. I don't think, I don't think necessarily the label or like the record label industry used me because that was, that was me. They didn't instruct me to make that kind of music. That was the music I was making, do you know what I'm saying?

And especially at that time, I hadn't even played any of the labels, any of the deep pain stuff, because even from a management level and just people around me level, it was very clear that it didn't quite connect like with who I am as a person, even though I have that side to me. And I believe, like, as an artist, as time goes on, you unveil layers of your artistry. And so I have revealed, like, in later songs, do you know what I mean? But it's like you have a main brand. It's like McDonald's sell the Big Mac.

And then obviously they have other stuff and there's fries and da-da-da-da-da-da. But there has to be the brand because I am, as RD, I'm a brand as well as I'm a person. And so there has to be structured to that. I would say that using... There might have been like me feeling like being used by certain like artists or like being put on certain records to sell to a demographic that maybe that artist didn't initially sell to. Do you know what I mean? Like that weren't being taken to as much. But not, yeah.

I don't, I don't think so much like the industry. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I feel like it's a tough. It's a tough topic. And even before you came in here, what I didn't realize was how grounded you were in your, you know, in your lyricism, in your vulnerabilities or early on. I thought it was party, party, party right out the gate.

All the way. But what I see is that's not what it was. No, not at all. And I also see that you, it was a performative part. for all of these reasons. Your father trying to, you know, trying to impress others in order to get the attention. And I'm like that now.

Like even in rooms I'm going to, even within, weirdly, like within this conversation, like, I haven't, I'm not sitting there saying consciously or intentionally I've tried to impress you, but I know what you do. I know that you dive into psychology and you dive into minds. And so within this conversation, I have flexed my capability

to be able to dive into my own mind and I'm still aware of that and so and then, but it can if I think about it too much it will snowball because it's like I'm constantly aware but I'm still doing it so then is it a choice or is it something that's just second nature

to me in everything I do? I don't know. Yes, yes. So then ultimately I think what it boils down to is like if you think about you at your essence then who is R.D. Yeah. At your core.

Who are you? Hi, I'm Kim and this is for you, Joss, my lovely brother. Welcome to ID Mobile. Please leave your message after the tone. You know it was my news resolution a couple of years ago to text you once a week. I think we should level it up now. We should take it to the next stage and we should pick up the phone even if it's to commiserate about Arsenal.

I love it when we're watching an Arsenal match together because I can see all your like emotions. But even if we're not together, you can always. pick up the phone, I can like hear the heartbreak in your voice. Mum and I'm going to treat me like I'm a 32 year old child and like to know where I am at all times and track me on find my friends. We don't need to go that far with you. But just a little check-in once in a while would be lovely. Maybe like on the way to work, on the way home from work, whenever you get like a quiet moment. The last time we spoke on the phone was for your son's

birthday, but I wasn't really chatting to you. I was chatting to him. The conversation was probably Probably about 10 minutes. And of that, I think I spoke to you for about one minute. I know having a kid, your life is very busy. But I'm sure we can make time for each other. How do you think a call would change the relationship with your brother? I don't know how different you are from your sibling. Very.

Very, yeah. It's nice to have a different perspective. But just be silly with each other over the phone. My brother's very like routine, right? but I'm very like Lucy goosey I see it But like it's nice as well

Like he will remind me Sometimes I need to slow down Yes And I'll remind him That maybe you can be a bit more spontaneous Right? Yes When you said that

I was thinking to myself Has there been a time Where I felt heavy Or distraught After talking to my brother Never There you go Yeah I feel lighter

He's always teaching me About something that I had no idea about That ends up Making my life better Yeah, it's really cool. I feel like I should call him. I've inspired you.

We are in partnership with ID Mobile and Mental Health, UK. We want you to ditch the text, right? In my conversation here with Kim, what I've learned is you should just get silly. And you could only do that if you make it a call. You alluded to your father and you were talking about like, I'll one up you. And you said, and then there was a point where I reached with my father where I was, where, and I felt like you were going to say where I won up to him. Yeah.

And not, I mean, I've always wrongfully or rightfully. I've always pinned it on my dad. It was just like, I've always sought after attention, especially like male attention and male older attention and like filling this whole of like, okay, that's, that's the male figure we're going to look up to for the next three weeks or this season or whatever it is. It's like the first time I met him was on a holiday. in Cyprus when I was like nine or ten. Can't remember when that age.

And were you aware that you were going to meet him? No, I don't even know if my mom knew he was going to be there. He does, he's been a man of many things, but he, at the time he was doing something called TimeShare. And I don't know, I don't think we'd plan to go over there to meet him. I think he happened to be in a resort and my nan was like, That's your dad? Yeah, yeah.

And so there was, and then that was never structured. So like the next time I see him was when I was 30, you know, But going back. But no, no, but I mean, but let's talk about it because you're nine. So you're nine, you're on holiday. Yeah. It's you, your nan, your mom.

I'd have to, maybe my mom did go over for us to see him. As far as I'm aware, it was sheer potluck that he happened to be on the resort, but I don't, I don't know. All right. You'd have to ask her. But from your perspective, your nan was like, that's your dad. Yeah. And it was all, I always remember my nan being a prominent figure.

And my life, that's like, you are so much, like, You're old man. I've got to have a voice in my head. Anytime I say to someone that I was told it, it's my nan's voice that I think of. Okay. So your nine, your nan tells you, there's your father right there on the resort.

So what's going on for you in that moment? And then how does, that, what's the first thing that you two say to each other? I don't remember the first thing you said to each other. I remember the first thing I've done, there was like, I was in a swimming pool and jumped out and gave him a big hug. but also the first feeling I thought of, even when you're just saying it,

was being filled with pure fear. And I don't know why. There wasn't like a relief of, ah, there's my dad. Like, it was a foreign concept. So it was, I assume my body went into a bit of like fight or flight mode. You know what I mean? And the first conversation I remember having is he was shy of me, two birds. one was called Cat and one was called Christina.

I don't know how much you're going to want me to talk about this, but it's cool because I've told him what we do. This is the first conversation you have with him. Yeah, the first one I remember, probably isn't, do you know what I'm saying? But it was made very clear to me that you are not to mention cat in front of Christina and you are not to mention Christina in front of cat. And in result of that, I've got Assassin's Creed for the DS, which is the game I wanted.

It's obviously a 15, or it might be an 18. Assassin's Creed for the DS and Guitar Hero. And my dad chose Guitar Hero. I chose Assassin's Creed. So, I mean, in essence, he bribed you. Yeah, slightly. He bribes you with video games. Yeah, I don't think, I don't remember it like that.

I remember it as like, I wasn't going to do it anyway because my dad told me so. And this is the first moment for me. This guy that I just met this figure, I mean, again, my old man. is a madman, but he has a huge character and presence. And even within the country of Cyprus, like people that are recognising him, and he's the governor, isn't it? Like, well, that's how I felt anyway,

and that's how I come across. And so this guy was Superman now. Like, I've just almost starstruck by him, and that later developed kind of every time I linked him. But, yeah, I remember going back to my mom I had these two games and she was kicking off. I remember hearing them, not argue, but she's pointing at Assassin's Creed.

It's obviously, the clues in the name, like, you're assassinating people. My other than she said, do you think that's appropriate? And obviously, he's laughing, and he was like, ah, da-da-da-da. And he took the rap and said, well, which one did he want? And he was like, well, yeah, he wanted a guitar hero.

I thought I'd get him that one. And I remember the feeling of like, this guy's cool as fuck, like, because I wanted that game. And I knew I wasn't allowed that game. said I wasn't allowed that game. And he was like, yeah, go on and have it. I see it.

And took the rap for it. Do you know what I'm saying? I see it. I see it. So that, I mean, that is, I think, a very interesting first interaction. First in color. With your father. I mean, from the fear to immediately hugging to then spending the night with him

and then him basically, you know, presenting all of that. When you reflect on that, because you've had a lot of years to think about that. Yeah. Do you feel like you got what you needed from him in that early interaction? I don't know because it's always like, or the grass could be greener and other sides or... But did you get what you need? You know, because this is the reason why I push on this is that already, I mean, we've just met, but already I could tell you're stoic in that you don't want anyone to feel any bit of shame for you.

Yeah, I hate it. I say to my mum all the time, like, I cannot deal very well with sympathy. Like, I hate people feeling sorry for it. It's not my thing. That's why I'm always like, I said you when we first got it. Like, I'm, I've always been super comfortable with these open, vulnerable conversations because if I sat here like this and like, you know, like, oh, and how does that feel? Like, I remember I was put through loads of different, like, therapy people and, like,

we have something over here called CAMs in the UK where it's like child psychology, like, There'd be people I'd go see and say it and hated all of them because they'd speak to you really softly and like, and they'd try and take you down this path. And I used to, I mean, I was a troubled kid in it. But I used to intentionally, I'd know the path they would try to take me down and take them down this road. And then they'd realize that I was having them on.

And that would be when I explored it's like, because I can see what you're trying to do and you're pissing me off. I don't want to be here full stop. I've been forced to be here. And you don't know me. So, like, yeah, I've never been good at dealing with that. I can see it. I can see it.

Right. But I think the challenge in this is that because this is all about you and us being able to step inside of how you were thinking and feeling. Yeah. I'm just wondering if you meet your, like I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. If I'm meeting my father for the first time. Do I think I got what I needed? What you needed. Probably not.

I definitely didn't feel like that at that time at the time. Just that encounter was more than what I needed. I didn't know it was what I was missing. It's like the only way I can describe it is like as a child, you have this massive hole in your kind of heart or heads or like weird distant memory that you don't really know and you have no idea what it is. And then it's like Riley as a child is a big jigsaw puzzle

and there's like four jigsaw pieces missing. And meeting this man, is like now in hindsight it's like one jigsaw puzzle that me as a child I've duplicated so I've made him all four

and it's not been put in but I can see I can see the piece now I'm with you I'm with you so then how does the relationship with just your father how does that then evolve over time

um yeah I mean it was like Obviously, after that point, I don't really know, like, the intervals or what the ages were. A lot of it's a blur, but, like, throughout my childhood, I was told more and more kind of the story. My first impression was always, like, he just up and left them, do you know what I mean? Like, dad and nothing da-da-da-da-da. And he's got, how many kids has he got? Five.

So I've got, and so, like, one lives in Brighton, the other one's in Cyprus, another one, that two live in Brighton. They're dotted about everywhere. it but um he was how do i put it he was a bit of a naughty guy right let's say yeah people can connect those dots however i don't want to connect those dots i'm not going to start incriminating or or going into major detail of that but essentially he had or kind he made a choice he could have been more of a man and maybe dealt with certain issues or problems that were going on or obtain some kind of money or like i don't know how he would have fixed it to be honest I might give him his dues and that

the best solution in terms of the safety for like my mum and me and my brother he had to leave the country so he didn't just leave and walk out of my mum and stayed in England he fled only up until really recently he doesn't come bright and a lot because there's a lot of history for him here

but when we did see him and he would take us to like the park or whatever this would be like there'll be years in between it wasn't like okay now that you've met your dad I have a conversation with my mum about this recently like it wasn't now that you've met your dad you're going to see him every other week he's going to come.

I always say to my mum, that probably would have helped a little bit with the feeling of like this constant yearning for attention. Because if anything, I always say meeting him and then disappear in however long until you decide it's fine, you come back. What's like, what can I do then? How can I get this attention from this guy?

Because also when I'm with him, I'm so idolizing him, it's euphoric, man. And I feel, I believe all, especially, like majority of young men probably look at their dads that way, no matter what it is your dad does, but especially when you're rolling around Brighton with him and there are certain characters that seem a bit, you know, and then I, hey, you what, do you know what I'm saying?

And it's things that. I remember we walked past one, chip shop one time, and there was a guy, a huge guy having a mad row with someone, I think that person had owed this huge guy money, and he'd picked him up and put him through. You know, like, when you'd like a burger shop, they had like the window, he'd thrown him through the window. So my dad had, like, stopped and, like, moved back,

and he put his little, this window, glass everywhere and I'm super shitting myself I've never done anything like this and then the guy who'd done it and see my dad was like yo boy what you're saying and what are my boys

and now I'm like being introduced to this guy and I should put him these are through our window and you're looking like wow my dad this is just mad cool to me like none obviously looking back

like not loads of it is great but also I'm not like resent for like that was wrong he shouldn't do this I don't have that viewpoint maybe I would like I don't know, yeah, I just, I'm a big believer and everything happens for a reason and this is my story.

I'm not a big believer in, like, resenting what made you into who you are, do not what I mean? But I get it, I mean, you viewed your dad as your superhero. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think most boys do anyway, but this added mystery of like, well, what is it that he does? And my mom allowed all that. Like, she was never, your dad's a bad person.

She never slated him off. The stories that I eventually got told over time were via him that were then verified by her. But she never, my mom's a great person. I think she allowed for us to meet him for who he was. And so I didn't have any, like, there's literally zero conception of him at all. Do you know, I mean, before that point. Yes.

You know, I'm willing to bet that, but you'll have to ask your mom that she intentionally brought you to that resort. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like maybe she knew he was in Cyprus. I don't know if he was meant to be there that day. but I'd have to ask her, I'm pretty sure we didn't know he was going to be there as far as I'm aware. Because also, my mum, at this point,

when I'm 9-10, she's with her fella, not at the time, they're together now. So I don't know how that dynamic would have worked or if they'd have planned to do that, knowing that he was there and stuff. He was like, my mom had a boyfriend from, I don't know when they started seeing him. I remember meeting for the first time around this time. Like that's my first kind of early memory of him.

But he's in the army. So he was around like, sometimes it'd be gone for months at a time. If he was there, he was only there for a weekend and then he had to go back to base. And that was their relationship for like only recently since he's been discharged, which is like 14 years, whatever it is. That's incredible. Yeah. That's incredible. So then the relationship with your father, it sounds like, was then just like that.

It was like he would pop in, be in your life a little bit, pop out. And you would wonder, where is he? Yeah, and just like, it was this attention that I yearn for so much. And then especially because when he was here, this isn't any disrespect on knocking to my brother. But like, me and my dad get along very well. And it probably stems from because I was always told you're so much like him. I played into that. And then because of the kind of geese he is, he's like, I'm proud, yeah, like, that's my boy.

Like, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I would imitate him and I would see that he liked that, do not what I mean? That made him proud. I was like his little prodigy. Down to everything. In primary school now, I've got three birds on the go. Don't know what I'm telling him. My dad's laughing.

Like, obviously he's still kind of saying, like, ah, no, you shouldn't do that. But I can see he doesn't mean it because he's smiling like a chest shit cat while he's saying, that I shouldn't do that, do not I mean? Yes. Do you think your father then ended up having the biggest influence on your life as a young boy? One million percent. Even until now, I remember one of the times he come down, he is fond of alcohol and other things. And so being around that, like when me and my brother are going to stay in a hotel with him one time, I was, I think I think I was in primary school.

Year 6 and my brother was two years older. What year was that? Year 8. And looking back now, I didn't quite know what the other substances were. I can see what it was on now. Do you know what I'm saying? But he'd had a few and then done that. And we were in this hotel in Brighton Station, the Ibis Hotel.

And he was back and forth and at the bar. And we would stay in the hotel room while he was down there drinking, which is obviously unfortunate because we don't get to spend loads of time with him. Do you know what I'm saying? So then he's come back on. and where he's drunk and he's got a lot of health problems due to lifestyle choices and stuff. And so he was in a really bad way. And allegedly at the time, my dad's funny as well, because sometimes he exaggerates or again,

he does things to put on a show and like wear it as a cape. But he had come in and was all over the place and then fell to the floor. And then as far as me and my brother were aware, whether he was faking it or not, I don't know. but his heart stopped and he wasn't breathing. Oh, well. And so my brother, I remember my brother sobbing his eyes out. I remember being super frozen, like not crying, not even really, like, sad. And I remember, like, obviously I'm 12, so I'm, like, attempting to do some former CPR

and, like, get him up and, like, slapping his face and, like, shaking him. And then, like, he, like, sat up and, like, took a breath and was, like, oh, like, what happened? and he was like, again, you know when someone's drunk and they're like, they're talking about things that like, they've obviously had a conversation in their head, like, it's not really making sense to me what he's saying. So that's scary as well because you're just like even know if you're talking to me or like, again, now I just know he was super inebriated,

do you know what I mean? And then like, I remember trying to like roll him over or whatever. And then I remember the next day he was fine and that was kind of the start of like, oh, you know, you might not, he would say to my brother in front of me, like, you might. not see me for a bit like because Riley's going to obviously explain to her mom what happened and then then I'll be like no no I'm not and he's like no you are and it's fine and then my brother

will be like no like don't like because everyone up going to see dad where there was another time so so then in that moment then you had to decide if you're going to keep that yeah I didn't tell my mom that I think I only told my mom that like a few years ago wow so you so you held that to protect your father yeah yeah and that's and it seems like that was the relationship you protecting him. Yeah, and my mama said that to me all the time. I remember there's a lot of times when I was a teenager where she used to be like, you know, he's your dad and not the other way around, yeah? And I'd get annoyed because also my whole thing, like, I had such a strong relationship with my mom. When I come into like late primary school and a teenager, it becomes very common for someone

to, you know, like, you're a mom or blah blah blah, blah, blah. And none of that ever offended me. But if anybody spoke about my old man on any level, especially now that I'm a teenager of 1314, any of my uncles do it, anyone around me with enclosed family, and people that know him, like, no one can't cunt off Superman to me. Like, especially because now, in my head, I'm his little mini me. Do you know what I mean? So we are, we are one, do not what I mean? And our relationship, like, it's funny coming away from that a little bit,

like I say it all in hindsight now, as if I don't still do it, but I doubt I catch myself doing it all the time. It's so second nature, you know what I mean? Yes, yes. You know, even beyond you being his mini-me, it seems like you saw yourself through him. Yeah, like, it was weird. It was like, I don't know how to explain it of like,

when everybody said to me all these characteristics that I do have, that I genuinely did have before I met him, it was weird to meet a guy that I agreed I was so much like. And so I think there was 50% like, this guy is exactly like me. And then the other 50% is like, I probably wasn't exactly like him, but I filled in the gaps of the bits that I wasn't like,

I made myself like him, do you know what I mean? And then, I mean, already now, I mean, you know what a father's love is now, for sure. Yeah. When you look back at the behavior, at least, that your father exhibited in that early time, do you feel like he showed you love? Yeah.

Yeah, I do. I think this is where I'm not like, will disagree. because I'm sure you don't necessarily have an opinion on it. But I think love comes in all different shapes and sizes and formats. And one thing I will always say about my old man, not just me and my brother, all of his kids, even the ones that maybe he hasn't been allowed to see or like, has less of a relationship with because they're not on it or whatever.

He fucking loves his kids. And he is a problematic person with his own shit going on. but I don't believe, like the same way I have been problematic and hurt people or whatever, that doesn't mean that I didn't love that person. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like I just, because of whatever I are going on, I have pretty shitty ways of showing it sometimes.

Or like I wasn't showing it sometimes, but it didn't mean that I didn't hold that in my heart. And this is why I don't hold anything in bad regard for better or for worse. It's like that version of myself that I developed is RD. like that hey da da da da see in the state

of a loud in front of a bunch of characters that I've never met and owning the room and walking into places and like I own the place and like

I always had it in me and I believe like I was told you know you're so much like your dad and blah blah from that character before I met him

so I had it in me before I'd met him but I still believe it comes from him and then the extra bits that I that added on top by trying to emulate him.

That's insightful, man. And now you know what's interesting is, is I see that. Because it's interesting. I think I've watched every video that you've put out, you know, I've watched everything. And to me, the person that I've seen in those videos is exactly who you just described. Like, that's probably your dad.

Yeah, it's a show. And don't get, it's not a million miles away from me. Right, right. Right. It's still... It's like just almost... Can I say exaggerated? Exaggerated.

Yeah, 100%. That's like the version of show business. I always remember growing up was like you put on a show. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'll use Robbie Williams as an example, like amazing performer. Like, he doesn't walk around in his day-to-day life. Like, I am Robbie Williams. This is my ass.

That would be super strange. You know what I'm saying? Right, right. That would be crazy. Yeah, that would be wild. So obviously it's... it's an exaggerated art form that I eventually, for better or for worse, I started buying into, I was buying what I was selling at some point.

And I don't want him to be hurt by this because he knows I love him dearly. And our relationship is now changing where the playing field, there was a couple moments when the playing field became level. And one of the times was like, a father's day, he was supposed to have come down and I'm with my partner and her sisters and her dad's come and there's been three times that he was meant to come and meet my partner's dad and for whatever reasons he's got himself into a pickle and not come and this had happened again this time of Father's Day

Father's Day is a tough day thing because he lost his dad when he was 15 and then was homeless after that and so I'm aware of that and we now have a rule where it's like let's just leave Father's Day because it's set up for failure a little bit But that was one of the first times I'd proper, I'd had a go with him. And I was like, you're just, I was like, you're a fucking liar. Like, just own it. Just say you went out and got pissed.

Or like, don't like, don't try bullshit a bullshit. I was like, unfortunately for you, I am so like you. I know every single trick up your sleeve. I know all the language. I know the provado. I know the man behind the mask because I am that same man behind that mask kind of thing. and it was good for our relationship like he he's never had anybody in his life

I don't believe speak to him like that and it was like it was aggressive from my front and he's a guy that probably doesn't take bad off like that do not what I mean so but but you're you you were able to stand up to him yeah and it was anger for my brother and him being confused and where and where is he and like it just I just filled me with rage

and so that was one of the of like the first times that that veal were kind of important and that it started to unwrap this and i still idolize him it's still something that sometimes i find myself doing by accident sometimes i do on purpose because he has so many great qualities and i know some people might watch this and have an opinion of his character and i don't want it to seem like he is just this awful bad person because he's not he loves his kids and he's done so much for me and he's always supported my career even in tunes where i'm slagged him off he's the first person to share it on Facebook and he knows it's my story to tell like he's not like when you can't

say this or like you're not I'm saying so I just want to put that out there okay it's fair but um yeah it started to unveil this kind of pedestal and revealed more to me about myself than him if anything and what and you made this realization win I think it slowly happened over time so we have that moment that wasn't the start but that's a key moment I remember the first time that's standing up against him. I remember my mom being proud of me as well and texting me saying, but is this just within the last, what, two years? Two years. Yeah, this is very recent. So, so you know, so interesting is, so I always look at identity is the story that we tell about ourselves, right? And normally when I say, who are you? What I'm looking for people to say is,

tell me the story that you tell about yourself. Yeah. And it feels like you, you began to truly know your identity about two years ago. Literally. It's wild. I had felt a change in how I would be absorbed by those stories before.

He's the coolest thing since life spread. And obviously I still, he's still a cool guy. I still love him. But from being with my partner and having this new perspective, it's like,

I almost had sympathy for him for the first time, which is something that I've always hated feeling for people and for myself and what i saw was someone who had basically done the same thing as i had but through whatever he has dealt with him losing his dad when he was young and being kicked out by his mom and having to grow up and become an adult like so many

obviously in a very different world because it's music and fame and whatever but it's like humanized him even more but now on a on a sympathy level and it was the first time in my life and it was quite it was I remember I was actually quite not upset by it was a weird feeling of like almost guilt because that cape had been taken off like I'm saying like the mask had been the curtain had been pulled a little bit and I know that he could feel it as well he could see or I could see in his eyes that he could see me this story I can't it was just it was just a not like a regular like bullshit funny mad thing that happened when it's

it's always about girls and someone being cheated on and someone being a load of drugs being taken and like some some mad story that has some snatch guy richie themed ending I'm saying. Right. And that was a super surreal moment for me

because it had happened without me realizing and so when I then went back to my partner, Osh, and kind of explain this feeling. So yeah, it was just quite a profound moment for me. That's a life-changing.

Yeah, like my whole life had just been turned on its head. We have conversations just like this one every week. So if you haven't already, hit subscribe and I'll see you for the next one. The one area that I know that we haven't talked about is that you are now independent. You're an independent artist. Yes.

And it seems like you've consciously, made this decision to be an independent artist. Yeah. What's the reason for that? I knew that the love, not the love, because I don't want to slate the label that I was with, because they're all amazing people. And obviously, they've all got their job jobs to look after. But just tide change in the industry.

Everybody has to move at all times. A&Rs have got to maintain their jobs. It's a really tough industry where, like, if you are not meeting a certain quota of delivering a certain amount of records and a couple of my records I haven't connected, they can't just They can't, I have to die on this hill because I'm RD, but everybody in their mum in the building doesn't have to die on the hill with me because they've got families of eating. And I know that now, even though I was, I probably, if you'd ask me at the time,

I'll probably would have slag them all off. But, and so all of that combined with, like, again, all of this stuff that I hadn't really dealt with, I'm going three days on the trot and my mum's having to film, like, the States. I'm in, and it's a show, like, I'm like, I'm in, or we got like a bar or had a bar in the house that we're no longer at. But like I'd be talking to myself or talking to the walls or I'm on all sorts of drugs like that. And especially when I found and dove into ketamine, that was the numbing agent.

And so my thing with that was never like I would do a little bit because some people do it to get, they call it wonky or like they're a bit. Mine was it was go go all the way. It was like buying seven grams at a time. and then it started like constantly doing it while I'm out, which is a terrible look because you can see far easier when someone's on something like that rather than the other because you can't walk, you can't talk, your legs go.

So then there are videos like that coming out of me and then that gets worse. And then what it stops being is like, I'm going out for a little bit and kind of fronting it as like, yeah, I want to go out and get lit. But I'm only out for a few hours now and going straight back home and carrying on for day. Yeah, yeah, at home on my own.

For days. For days. Yeah, yeah. In my bedroom at home, like, I'd have two bottles of rum at, by my bedside table at night. In my darkest moment, two bottles of rum, three, five of packet and at least seven grams of ket. I mean, and just on my own. And what a while. You know, I mean, I'm surprised you didn't die.

It's wild. From that, yeah. And there's just so many times where my mom's like, come in the room or coming to wherever I'm at terrified or just super worried about me the combination of all of that happening and my

older brother going into psychosis that was the straw that broke the donkeys back how does that change you then it I'm filled with this super guilt because not only have I

been distant from him because we're on different paths on life. But I've also had thoughts where I've been like, well, you know, I could try and make the relationship bond a bit better. I could see him more. I could bring him to shows. I could bring him to studio. I bring my mates to studio.

Like, I love my brother. We get along and so why don't I? And then obviously, due to the path he had taken and whatever I've gone on with him, that's happened right underneath my nose. We live in the same house together. Like, how have I missed this? How has it got to that point where he's taking whatever he's taken? and obviously it's put him into a drug-induced psychosis.

And, like, I remember he'd, my mom had said it to me. And he had come home. I don't know if you've ever seen someone when they're like that. But, like, I haven't. It's terrifying. Like, didn't look like him. His eyes weren't there. He wasn't making sense.

He was jittering. He's never really been the same since, and he still has, it's complicated. Like, he has, sometimes he's good. And it's, and even when he's good. good, he's still not the same as what he used to be. And when he's having an episode or whatever, it's tough and it's like I would, I now have to deal with the fact that I will, my brother probably won't be the same again. And I don't know what the source or the reason was as to why he felt he had to take or do whatever it was he was doing.

and taken that led to him being like that or getting into that state. And if I could turn back time and not have fame but and music, but have my brother be normal. Or not normal, that sounds like a bad way to put it, but like just have that relationship that I had once with my brother. I would. I'm saying I believe you would yeah yeah

I didn't realize that they gave me chills with you talking about the guilt that you have yeah and it was something I had even before the psychosis

and something that I battled with all the time yeah yeah it's tough yeah that's a lot of weight to carry and

what I also reflect on is how you you described your brother as as looking up to you. He's your older brother, but you were the big brother in essence. How is your mother managing her two boys? Because her two boys are still with her. You know, they're showing up differently.

Yeah. Now, but, but how does how does she parent you both today? It's difficult like so with, me and my brother both have a very different view of my mum and me and my brother have fallen out over it quite a few times throughout our lives. Again, this makes me sad to say their relationship is difficult now,

just looking from the outside in, because he's, again, a little bit before, and since the scenario, and since the psychosis, not scenario, but he's very, um, secluded. Doesn't really want to talk a lot. And he has his feelings about my mum or like how things were done. And so she obviously still checks on him. I would definitely go far enough to say it's probably quite a one-sided relationship from my mum's side, you know.

And it doesn't mean he doesn't, I know he loves her, do you know what I mean? Yes. But I think there's just, there's some resentment. held from him and I think some of it is due to like his brain has obviously very recently been rewired due to whatever substances and like it's it's too difficult to try and not only communicate with him just on a day to day level how are you you know what have you eaten today to then try and dive in to all that like there's a time and place for it and at this moment in our lives it's not now so but I tell you what I mean that is a difficult situation Yeah.

And that's a lot for all of you to be going through in this very moment. Yeah. And one is, I mean, I definitely appreciate the transparency. I think it gives us a view as to what you are dealing with, what you are managing, you know, what's top of mind for you. And my wish is that, you know, your brother is able to move to a place where you both can feel the love that I know that you have for each other. And he and your mother are able to move to a place

where they can feel the love that I know that they have for each other because it's been the three of you since the beginning. From day dot. So then how do you, I mean, now I have a totally, I have a totally new perspective on you. But now, as you moved into fatherhood, I can see now how this completely reshapes how you show up. You know, not only as a father, but but, but, but he, as a man in society.

100% yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, can we talk about fatherhood? Yeah. I think before we talk about that, we kind of have to go into me and my, I think we have to do me and my partner first. Okay.

Unosian. Yeah, me and Osh. Okay. Because like you say, like this reshaping my walk, how I am and how I view the world, it starts with her. And I mean, I'm sure you saw, maybe you didn't, but on my post where I was like my whole life, even though I've glamorized and idolized my dad, there's always been a part of me that's very aware that is not how you father or parent someone. Yes. And so on that, is this where you wrote for a long time? My past and my trauma was my identity.

Yes. Can I read this? Yes, cool. Yeah, this is profound. So you wrote this on IG. For a long time, my past and my trauma was my identity. I held on to it as tight as I could, fighting anyone and anything that tried to change me,

hurting people in the process. And this is to your child. That's my daughter, yeah. You wrote, I promise you will never know the feeling of wondering who your dad is, where he is or if he loves you enough. I'll show you every single day. Yeah.

100% I believe it. I mean, it was my whole heart, yeah. Yeah, I believe it. So it's ocean. Yeah. Who put you on this path? Yeah, because like I was saying, like, I was always,

I've always been like, I'm never having kids. I don't want to be a dad. I've always been, I've like, busting the fact that I am this bad person. And it's, it's always been, I've like, barsting the fact that I am this bad person. Is it that you also, so you didn't want to be a dead, did you also not want a committed relationship? It doesn't that I didn't want it. I didn't really think I was capable. Like, I've never been able to hold down.

What's the word? What, it's monogamous. Oh, yeah. That's the singular one, right? Exactly. Monogamous. Monogamous relationships. And even like, I can care for someone, but it was always like once you were out of sight,

you were out of mind. I've hurt people, do you know what I'm saying? I'm very aware of that. And sounds horrible. For a long time, I was also proud of that because that's who my dad was. He was the top narcissist, and that was super cool, do you know what I mean?

Like, just like, even for a reference, he, his nickname for me is Asmodius. asmodius is the son of the devil somewhere in some kind of mythology and that's like that's our banter that's our relationship

but that's that's that's been his nickname for me throughout all my teenagers as well and I loved that that was again it's like yeah like we're bad to know what I was saying

it was cool to not give a shit about no one or anything and it's so it's I look at it and it's kind of strange because my mom is so the opposite she is like the most loving

open person and all my mom was like the mom to all my friends growing up. So, yeah, so Ocean, she was aware of all this. Yeah, so she, she was, she's been a friend for a long time and kind of saw all the different states that I've been in throughout majority of my career. The more I got to know her as a friend and then as our relationship developed, she had been through so much and wore it very, very differently to how I wore it and her outlook on why she should wear it differently. I had this newfound perspective of like just through falling in love with her and not just falling in love of her but falling in love of her outlook on life.

It was probably one of the only ways I could have possibly have been changed because she didn't try and stall it into. me in any way. It was just the same way like we talked about my mum's mentality and how watching her do whatever she wanted to do, made me believe I could do whatever I wanted to do. It was like watching my partner and how she carries and doubt of all that and how she treats people, the kind of person she is. I said in that post, she has a very special kind of light about her, like her energy. And so yeah, when we've started speaking and like, we first like dated or like gave it a go in that realm rather than just being friends. I was like, trust me, you don't want to get wrapped.

I just try and do like the whole swagger. Like, I'm so messed up. Like, actually kind of cringes me out when I'm saying out loud now. And she was very like, yeah, cool. Like, you know, actually, when now we speak about it, she's like, I knew you were just, you'd had such a warped perception of yourself. And then slowly over time and it didn't happen overnight and we've had our ups and downs because it's complicated, as I'm sure you know, love is.

Like, I found myself healing through her, which might sound a little bit codependent because it's not necessarily her job, do you know what I'm saying? But it was like this new outlook. Is that, did that also impact your perception of fatherhood? Yeah, for so long. Even while we were in a relationship, it's something I've made clear to where. Obviously, I'm at the age where that's the things you discussed quite early in a relationship. And I'd said, I don't want kids. And I went asked why.

I was like, because I'll be a shit dad. I don't know how to be a good dad. I was aware that this father, some relationship, wasn't normal. And I was like, well, that's all I know. But I also don't want to pass that on down. And her answer was always like, that's why you're going to be the best at. And then we had a moment that changed all of that for me. We had an atopic pregnancy before this pregnancy.

She was excited. And so, if I'm honest, at a time, I didn't think I wanted it, but I was up for it because she was up for it. Let me just, for anyone who doesn't know, because I was not familiar with an ectopic pregnancy. So this occurs when a fertilized egg implants and grows outside the main cavity of the uterus. It's most commonly, and this is about 97% of cases in the fallopian tube, so known as a tubal pregnancy, it is unfortunately a non-violetial. pregnancy cannot proceed normally, imposes a life-threatening risk to the parent, if not treated.

Yes. She kept saying, like, I know something's wrong, like, I'm in a lot of pain. This is now eight weeks in. And so, yeah, we've got to be done a few private scans, and basically they can't find it. So they're like, well, it must be a topic because we can't see the little egg or whatever. And obviously she was distraught because not only did she really want this baby. but she was also kind of aware that I wasn't quite ready. What it done for me that I hadn't let I know at the time

was revealed to me that I was ready because even though I had all those worries, the second I found out it wasn't happening, my heart was broken as well and I'd said this. It was actually a conversation I'd have with my dad because I'd spoke to him and said, you know, I ain't ready for all this, I'm not ready to hang the gloves up yet.

I'm like the lifestyle and all this kind of stuff. And then I've said like, yeah, I feel like shit. And I was that there actually was a part of being that was more excited than I thought. I was just so used to pretending like I don't want to evolve in life. And I want to be this version of myself that I told myself, no, I don't want kids and I'm this version of. And then like obviously something like that will strip any kind of. kind of defense mechanism or masked, especially seeing my partner's upset. And so, yeah, that had revealed that to me and I'd said that to her.

And just like that, you're a dad. No. Well, now I am. Yeah, but now, I mean, yeah, yeah. Yeah, obviously it was a process that again, I didn't, I've said to you, look, I stopped, I haven't drunk, or I haven't been drunk. I had a beer the other day for the first time. We're watching a football and just had one, which is a moment for me, do you know what I mean

but I haven't been drunk since January obviously she was she's been pregnant since August so there was still ups and downs and still are process for me to go through but I was able to again make be aware of myself and heal a little bit and like I said this is all very like raw it's all so recent so I'm not sitting here pretending like

no no I am this complete man that I like no no I can see it you're still you're still in the battle. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, you're still in the battle, which I applaud you for coming on to talk about being in the battle.

I think we have so many guests that come on and reflect, this happened to me 10 years ago, this happened to me five years ago, you're saying, this is happening to me now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a letter here. I'd like to read it to you

if I could. And then I'm going to give it to you afterwards. All right. Ready? Yeah. To my rye. Watching you become a father has been one of the most beautiful things I've ever had the privilege of experiencing.

For someone who once thought they never wanted children, you've stepped into the role in a way that feels completely natural, like you were always meant for it. Our baby girl is so lucky to have you as her role model. You are more talented and capable than you give yourself credit for, and somehow you continue to amaze me more every single day. I see how much you carry on your shoulders, the pressure you face, and yet you still show up for us without hesitation. I truly don't know what we would do without you. I don't think you fully realize the impact that you've had on my life,

the way you've brought light into it when I needed it most, for that I will always be grateful. You always remind me how strong I am and how well I carry my trauma. We've said this. But you forget to remind yourself of the same. You've carried your own through so much in ways most people wouldn't be able to.

There have been times when others would have given up after being knocked down again and again and it's been hard to watch, but you've pushed through it every single time and you come out the other side with strength and positivity. I don't think it's ever been easy for you. That one hits hard.

I don't think it's ever been easy for you handling success and strong opinions from such a young age while also dealing with your own personal battles behind closed doors, all while providing for and caring for your family. When I look at where you are now and the person you've become,

It's truly something that I admire, and I'm so proud of you. I'm so excited to do parenthood with you, to build a life full of memories as a family, and I feel incredibly lucky to have chosen such an amazing father from my children. Children. We've been through so much, and we've faced everything as a team, and we've come out even stronger. Our little family is everything because of you. we love you so much always your girls you know who wrote that i do know who right now you tried to get me i nearly went just um no i tell you i think letters are some of the most incredible

instruments that we have and i'm going to give this one to you thank you i'm curious what did you think of of that letter it's i mean it's always nice to hear And again, she always gives me like a new perspective because I do always tell her constantly, I especially remind her when she needs to be reminded of how strong she is. And I always, I always kind of give her the kudos of like, I am better because of how you wear your trauma now. And it's not something that I ever think about that, like, in turn of that I'm also wearing mine better. And yeah, I'm a little bit lost for words because.

That's amazing to hear. I love it. I love it. So then on that note, I've got the final question for you. Everyone gets it. Yes. If you reflect back on all of the conversations you've had throughout your life, which one stands out as the most memorable?

Who was it with? And what did you learn? That's a difficult question. One that comes to mind is a conversation I had with my mom when I said, even as an, and like, I think about that makes me laugh because it was quite a strong conversation to have with a child who just could have been saying something on a whim. Whereas I want to be famous or I want to be a rapper. I want to be a musician.

And a lot of parents would say, well, that's amazing. I'm so happy you have that goal. But you need to have a backup plan. Or, you know, that's a really hard thing to achieve. And I'm so happy you've got that aspiration. But and it would be a but. And the conversation with my mom. was and this exact phrase was they would and you better fucking give it your all like and

we had we went further into that conversation again I'm like I come up like like pretty young I think either late primary school or early secondary school and that was like a realization moment for me of the one of the first times of my mom's mentality and how she tackles and views the world and I felt like it gave me a bit of power because I'd realized it it was like my mom had passed down this power onto me and like I knew I was

fucking I was capable of it do know what I'm saying? Yeah you know before you came in I knew you as the rapper the white rapper from Brighton you know what I mean how do you feel this man did you

I mean I'm sure it's not what you expected no no not at all not at all And I'm definitely walking away, highly impressed with your maturity, highly impressed with your ability to reflect and pull lessons, very excited about your journey as a father. You seem to be fully equipped to knock this out the part. I hope so.

Yeah, I mean, you definitely do. But most importantly is I love that you have gone on a journey to figure out your identity and you know precisely who you are right now. And I think you like who you are becoming. That's a great way to put it. It's the first time in my life where I would introduce myself to someone. And I was proud of who I thought I was proud of who I was when I was bad. But it wasn't really pride.

It was all just the fun. And really, I just didn't love myself. And it's the first time I loved myself in a different way. And if I was to introduce myself to someone, say, like, I am proud of the man I am. Whereas before it was like, it was pretend pride, really. It was just all kind of ego. And I wasn't, I knew that I wasn't very behaving in the way that I knew I could. Yeah, yeah.

No, it's good. It's good. And I was going to say, you know, I see now's, it's really cool because I met R.D., obviously. but, you know, I know Smiley Riley you see the smile when I was reading the letter I'm like a chestier cat

I can't wipe it off I know Smiley Riley this is cool but yeah this honestly this has been an honor I think And likewise

I feel the same yeah yeah it is going to change I think a lot of perspectives and enlighten many many people for sure thank you

thank you for having me yeah Riley Davies, R.D., having him sit here today, I see how layered he is and how much he's had to manage, but more importantly, how much weight he still carries with him. Near death experience, addiction, the fractured relationship with his father, his challenges with a music industry. And, I mean, there's so much to his story. It's hard to believe that he's only 23. The advice that his mother gave is something that I think is really good advice. So that was at the early age.

She said, look, if that's what you want to do, then you better get to work. Like, don't mess around. And it's interesting for me because it's the same conversation I'm having with my oldest son right now, where he's giving me different ideas of, what he wants to do. And part of me is saying, oh, well, watch out for this or watch out. But the other part is what she says is we'll just get to work. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised, quite possibly shocked at what R.D. had to say. But when you listen to his entire journey, it's very understandable why he has landed at the place he's in today.

Absolutely adore foreplay. I think it's brilliant. I feel sad of people who don't. But then that became a thing, you know, that like I was somebody who went down on girls. So you became almost shamed for going down. Yeah. 17. You do Coke for the first time. Yes. You are removing pain you didn't realize you had. And my last memory was I was trying to escape something. What were you trying to escape?

My therapist would be buzzing that you're asking me these questions. If there's any question that feels off, you just say, Paul, let's not go there. I'd be impressed if you found somewhere. Wow, okay. There was also a point where I was very close to a suicide. My mom rung me, and I was like, sometimes I feel like I just don't want to be here.

Knowing that, like, I put my mom in a position where she could think about losing her son while she was alive. My dream throughout my whole life was for my mom to be happy. Let's get to then Jade. Jade tells me she loves me all the time and I fucking love it. I never knew I could feel like this. She's my superstar and I'm her superstar. Do you believe that you will marry Jade?

We need to talk. Yeah, yeah, we do. Spotify, it's Jay Shetty. Are you one of those media strategy people? Scrolling through spreadsheets, searching for an audience that pays twice as much attention to your ads than they do on social? Let me introduce you to fans. and they're here with me on Spotify. Trust me, I know fans.

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