We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Bre Tiessi & Katherine Ryan on Motherhood: "It's OK Not to Be OK!" | We're Talking Boss Mums

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

Paul sits down with two incredible women, Katherine Ryan and Bre Tiessi, for an honest and vulnerable conversation about motherhood, identity, and navigating personal transformations. They dive into the realities of having children, managing relationships, and the raw moments that come with becoming a mother. ◽️ Katherine Ryan reflects on having her first child at a young age ‘on purpose,’ her journey through the world of TV with Campus, and whether she’ll have more children in the future ◽️ Katherine opens up about why she and Bobby schedule sex to maintain their connection amidst their busy lives ◽️ Bre hares her deeply personal experience of childbirth and the mental health challenges of postpartum depression ◽️ Bre talks about how motherhood has reshaped her, offering insight into the personal growth that comes from this life-changing experience. (00:00) Intro (00:13) Katherine Having Her First Child at a Young Age 'On Purpose' (06:40) Katherine's First TV Show 'Campus' (08:45) Will Katherine Have More Children? (10:18) Why Katherine and Bobby Schedule Sex (12:31) The Average Amount People Have Sex (13:54) Love Better Tour (14:58) Bre's Experience of Childbirth (19:13) Bre's Experience of Postpartum Depression (24:14) How Did Motherhood Change Bre? Get Your Tickets to the Love Better Tour: https://bit.ly/lovebetter-YT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I found out that I had lupus, which is a drag. And I thought at the time I might not be able to have kids. And so I better have kids right now. So even though my partner was maybe not the perfect partner, I was like, oh, if we haven't broken up by now, we never will. I'll stick with him and I'll have this baby with him. And he was keen. He was older than me anyway. He's like, yeah, let's have a baby.

maybe men don't think these things through as much. And so I had my daughter. So that was a little bit of an obstacle early in my career. Before I was getting paid, I was already a mom to like a very young baby. So before you would say you started your proper comedy career, you had a baby. Yeah. But you just said something, now I have to spend a second. Oh, no, men, yeah.

You said many people don't believe that I intentionally. So what do you think people believe? She seems like an accident. because I became a single mother very quickly. I was younger than most people now start their families. You started your family young. Well, you got married young. Yeah.

Yeah, early 20s. Yeah. And then I had my daughter when I was 24. And certainly in that community, my friends are having babies now. Yes. And we're 40. Yes. So my daughter's babysitting, their babies.

And I was young to have a baby. And especially in my situation. I mean, it's a bad idea. I was in a foreign country, 3,000 miles away. from anyone who loved me. I was financially insecure and I was in the wrong relationship. I would not advise anyone

to really have a baby in those circumstances. You can help me understand why that was, why lupus in particular was part of the driver for you to get pregnant. Just because I'd never,

I had heard of lupus on both house and Seinfeld. Anecdotally, George Kostanza running around and be like, it's not lupus, it's not lupus. I was like, what is lupus? And I had these big open sores on my face.

I think I was stressed out. 90% of people who have autoimmune diseases are women. And again, I think that's maybe because we internalize a lot. We're very accommodating, and that comes out in different ways. So we might not be fighting in the pub. But we're like, just low level causing inflammation. So I had these open source on my face as soon as I moved to London.

And I think it was really scary for me and really isolating. And I felt very stressed at the time. And then I had joint pain and I had fevers. And I was just really unwell. And I thought, How can I exploit the NHS? No, I finally was diagnosed with this autoimmune disease. And when I found out what it was, I mean, you should never Google anything that you have.

It's usually not as severe as it looks, but it looked like infertility was one of the complications. And that if I went on this medication, which I'm still on today, that you go blind and that you could die. And then you might have a kidney transplant. Like we know, Selena Gomez has had known, all these terrible things can happen. Yes. A lot of pictures of seal. I was like, what is happening? And I just didn't know what the future would hold with Lubis.

And I felt so sick at the time that I thought, well, maybe I will be sick forever and I'll die young or I won't have kids. And so I just tried once. And about, at 24 you get pregnant as soon as you try. Just like that. You think about it. Yeah, yeah. I thought about it. Can I ask about at the time you knew that you weren't with the strongest partner?

No. This is a, I think a question that a lot of women in particular face that are like, okay, I want to be a mom. Yeah. Right. But my partner sucks. Yeah. What do I do? So how did you decide?

How do you make that decision that this is going to be the father of my child? In proximity, I guess. It was the nearest dick closest to me. the time. It's called dick proximity. This is a new thing. We shouldn't. No, it wasn't.

I mean, we, again, we had good days and bad days. And I did love him. I've been tethered by love a lot of times in my life and made probably like not so such rational decisions based on that. And I did think it's not a terrible relationship. He has some flaws. We aren't the perfect match. But if we haven't broken up by now, I bet we never will, which is a ridiculous.

ridiculous reason to have a baby. But I'm glad I mean, I don't regret any of it. And I've explored this. Like, what do you do if your biological legacy is impeded by the partner that you're with? What do you do? Do you wait around until it's too late? Like, I've explored this in my Netflix series called The Duchess. Luckily, I think money opens up a lot of doors to a lot of modern women.

But if you don't have that, what are you going to do? Right. And I think that it's. If we really had true biological equality, women would be freezing their eggs on the NHS, age 25. And they wouldn't have to worry about it. And they'd make such different life decisions because we're meant to have all this sewn up at such a young age. Can I say? Now, that right there is political.

I love it. You would have the eggs that you want it. I'd have, but really, really. And to your point is that decisions would be made much differently. Though they are finding with microplastics and with lifestyle changes that men's fertility is going down as well. It's on a decline. And people are waiting longer and. Yeah.

Yeah. But my daughter is the greatest mistake I ever made. I always tell her that because on paper it looks like a really bad idea. But as soon as she was born, instantly I became so clear and so motivated. My standards rose. And I became very successful and I left my partner and I became very calm and really happy and peaceful. And I wouldn't have any of those things without her. And I might have, I might have been out partying or I don't know what young comedians were doing at that time, but I was going straight home.

Yes. Isn't that poetic? That is poetic. And so you would say that your career, your proper career as a comedian, began really through the birth of your daughter. Absolutely, it did. Yeah. Yeah.

So what was first, when you look back, like gig that you were proud of that was prominent? Well, very soon after she was born, I was cast in a Channel 4 comedy called Campus. Okay. Jonathan Bailey is in it, who you might know from Wicked at Meriturton. Andy Nyman's in it.

You might know from Wicked as well. It was an amazing series. I was not very good in it because I wasn't an actress, but somehow I got this role. And I think that was just the confidence of walking into these auditions now, knowing that my daughter deserved an incredible life and I was going to be the one to get it for her. And that paid 25,000 pounds. At a time when I was running out of money at the end of every month, I had no savings whatsoever.

And it just gave me so much breathing space. I was like, wow, I'm going to be in this comedy series and like it paid to. to do something that's so much fun. And it was amazing. And Violet was six months old when I was cast in that. And she was nine months old when we filmed it. And I brought her to set. You know, I was going to say, how do you manage that?

Well, sometimes her dad would look after her. Sometimes she would stay with a babysitter, but I would bring her a lot. And she's in my trailer. There are photos of her in the makeup chair. I'm still breastfeeding. Like, it is difficult. Yes. The friends that I have, even like male friends now at age 40 who are having babies,

all of a sudden they have respect for me. They're like, how did you do that? Now they have respect for you. I think that it is only the 40-year-old guys who actually are participating as active fathers who have the respect. Because I think there's still too much imbalance to this day.

I mean, unfortunately, I know people who men who have, you know, five children that they've never changed. What is it here? We're diapers. What is it here? Nappy? Never changed it now. I was like, what?

You never change. You, no, let me take the father card. It's just, it's absurd. But at that time, you're carrying most of that weight. Yeah. It feels like you're a single parent. Do you believe you'll have more children? Yes.

Even though I'm so old now, Paul. I still love having children. I'm annoyed that I don't have more children. Yeah. You know, I'm with you. Yeah. So, you know, I have two. I've asked my wife countless times.

Yeah. I'm like, chill, please. Yeah. And she said, I'm sorry. The oven's closed. You believe you're going to have some more? I would like to, yeah. I try every month.

Every month. You're on the every month try? Yeah, I could be pregnant now. I'll let you know in three days. No, I'm 41, so it's like getting less and less likely. But having children is not for everyone. Some people don't want to do it. But if you're the person who loves it, then it's just the most magical human experience

of all time. We can make people. Yes. And then just to watch them and marvel in their experiences, like it's my favorite thing to do. Absolutely. And I can see this with your children. And I have this with my boys. And I remember so many people saying, you know,

your children shouldn't be your friends. I was like, no, no, these are my buddies. Like, these are my friends. They're people. They're my people. We hang out. You made them. I better like them. Do you realize I made these people? I made these people because I don't like those people.

These are my friends. These are my friends right here. So I could see why you're going to, why you would like to have more, right? I wouldn't involve like all types of science. I'm not going to get a surrogate. I'm not going to like go do in this and that. I just feel like I would leave that for the people who really need it. I'm very blessed.

I have three children. Okay. But for sure, I definitely try to get pregnant every month. Do you? Yeah. So this was something in the research, but I don't know if this is a fact or a myth is that that you and Bobby schedule. Oh, yeah. This is the thing.

And everyone would say that you two schedule. Do you schedule sex? It's not that we schedule sex. I know that's what it looked like in the article, but it's that habitually out of trying to conceive, I just log when we have sex. Okay. So we don't schedule it. We do kind of look back maybe on the week or the month. that be like, oh, we haven't had sex yet this week.

And then we tried to, like, be mindful about making time for it. I do know families who schedule it. They go, well, the school runs this time, let's do it at this time. Yes. Can I say there is, I think this is a myth that needs to be destroyed. This notion that scheduling sex is bad. We had Dr. Karen Gurney here. One of the foremost experts is, yeah.

And what did, she said, actually, scheduling is quite effective. Because there's two, I mean, you have a, you know, early in our relationship. We have this spontaneous desire. Yeah. Where it's like, you need nothing to get it on. But after years, et cetera, what ends up happening is more of a responsive desire after emotional connections been built up. And sometimes what you need to do is schedule to help usher in that responsive desire.

So scheduling, to me, that's efficient. I think it is. It's efficient. And early in your relationship, presumably you don't have kids. You don't. It is the kids standing in the way. Or even a large level of responsibility, like other responsibilities. Yeah.

Well, for us, it's explicitly the kids. Like they watch us like, well, Violet keeps us apart. She doesn't like intimacy between us. I think she would know if we're having sex. Like she can just come into a room in 1995 and like find us if she's too old to see that. Yeah. Like we don't want. And then the babies, we still co-sleep with the babies.

And so we're not going to have sex in that room. And then we're just, like, after we eat dinner, we're not occurred. So we do have to be creative about kind of just being mindful about the week that's gone by. I'm like, we didn't have sex last week. So we have to. So we, when I gave that interview, I think I was only having sex maybe twice a month. And now it's probably five times. I think it's better.

It's better. But also, too, do you do with the average amount of times that people have sex per month? No. No. What would you guess? I think it's, it was more than two because two seemed to really. surprise a lot of the British viewing public, like three? Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Yeah. So two, three, it's, like, some people will say three to four. It's, it is, there's this, there's this idea that everyone is having sex like five times a day. Yeah. And if you pull out people who are not in committed relationships, almost 80% of people are not having any sex at all, right? Yeah. So two, you were basically at Abby, like, you don't. Like, what do people want?

We had two kids in 18 months. Yeah. And they don't sleep. That's what I'm saying. And you're on tour all the time. I'm on tour all the time, exactly. Yeah, come on. And we have, like, people in the house.

Yeah. I mean, it's to be really appropriate for us to be having sex five times a day. We'd get caught. Yeah. It's just like being teenagers, actually. Only we were hiding from my parents. Now we're hiding from my daughter. Yeah, look at that.

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Sure. Because you, from what I understand, you've gone through miscarriage. Yes. Several miscarriages. Yes, I did. I had several. And actually, when I got pregnant with Legendary, I had just had one, probably like two months before. Oh, wow.

At this time, they told me I couldn't get pregnant for at least six months. Like, you know, and I was like, fuck it, I'm going to Europe then. I'm leaving for the summer with my girls. Like, I can't deal with this. I'm out. And I was at the point where they were like, you're going to have to do in vitro. You're going to have to do something else. And I was like, I don't want to do that.

I don't want to do that. I just don't feel like that's the way that I want to bring life into this world. That's not my vision of how I want to do it. And I had an all natural birth, no drugs, no anything. I'm just not my thing. So I went to Europe and I went for like a month. And then I came back and we went to film While and Out and I found out I was pregnant. And my doctor was like, how are you pregnant?

And I was like, I don't know. Like, I'm peeing on the steak. It tells me I'm pregnant. And so we were shocked, but I also like wasn't going to get excited about it because I was like, I've already had a few. So I was just like, all right, well, we'll just see what happens. And I feel like I was actually very detached from my pregnancy because I was like, well, if I lose it, it's going to be too much.

So you're like, okay, I'm sure. I literally was working and like working out like I wasn't pregnant. And everyone's like, you need to sit down. I was like, no, no, I'm fine. Fine. And I was. I had a fucking fantastic pregnancy. But I was also like.

Emotionally detached. Yeah. Like I was like, mm. And even in my birthing video, when I had my, son, I couldn't hold him. I was very like, I just need a minute given I was fucking exhausted. It was like 10 plus hours of labor, no drugs, no anything, nothing. This is, what do you call that type of birthing that you did? Like a homebirth? Home birth. Home birth. All natural home birth.

Was it, is it hypo birthing? What is it? Oh, hypno birthing. Yes, yes. I had an aspect of that, but I feel like that went right out the window when that really started active labor. I was like, Fuck. There was no hypno birthing anywhere in sight. I was like, fuck your mantras. Get him out of me. And I was just done. And like, no, that was gone.

I love the thought. I tried. You tried. But no. Fair enough. Yeah, the anger, the old Bree came out in that one. I was like, he's got to go now. And I was 42 weeks.

I was huge. I was way past due. And it was, he was like almost 10 pounds. So it was so rough. It was rough. I had my whole family there. Like, it was like a whole. my friends I call my family so you know my dad was there my you know everyone was there and we were

celebrating it wasn't like I was chained to a bed in a hospital with people coming in every five minutes like it was an awesome experience um but I think that because I had been so detached and it wasn't real to me and I was so exhausted I was just like I just need to recalibrate for a second and then and then we had an incident he didn't cry Nick panicked I could tell he was panicking and I immediately shut off. Like I was like, I was not going to live. Like, I was like, okay, I'm done. I've checked out.

I'm out. And then it took like, I don't know, two minutes before I was like, she's going to say he's done. I was like, oh my God, I was like sitting there like, okay, all right. And then he starts crying. And I was like, okay. And at that moment, I was like, I'm a fucking mom. Like, what the fuck? I'm a mom.

And it was like the, I'm emotional. It's the only time I've ever, like, been like, what is happening. Like, this is my life. I have a baby. Like, what do I do? And I don't have a mom. And I don't have, like, that figure.

So I was like, oh, shit. I have to figure this out, like, right now. Because I've been pretending, like, this isn't happening. So now I have to, like, figure it all out sitting here. Can you describe the first moment? Because you said you couldn't drink your child, actually. What was that the first moment with your child like? It wasn't really until I had already had, like, my little pass-out whatever moment.

And then I laid down in the bed. I want to say it was like an hour later, honestly. Nick had him. And they were checking his vitals and all his stuff. Most people get those crazy shakes after you have a baby. And I just felt like I had no control of my body or anything. And I was just like, I can't hold him. Like, I can't.

And then I literally couldn't even get up. I couldn't do anything. And so after the little episode, I felt so much better. And I was like, okay. And then my grandma was like reassuring. and, you know, all of that. So it was just like a, it took me a second. Yes.

You know, most women are like, let me see him. And I was like, hey, you need it. You needed a moment. I did. What do you think it was about your grandmother, though, that gave you the ability? My grandma was my mom at the end of the day. Like, she raised me, you know? It's like, so, and I had sent Nick's security at the time to go get her in Vegas.

So, like, when I had started labor 10 hours earlier, I was like, you go get her now. So they went and got her, and she got there right up. after. So she missed it, but she didn't totally miss it because obviously she came in right when I had him. And then Breva becomes a mom. Yeah. So weird. Incredible. Did you suffer from postpartum? Absolutely. Like all the time. And you know, there was a lot that transpired. And I had a lot of awful people around me at that time, like new people. Like most people in my life have been around for literally a decade. Like everyone in my circle is solid. And this is right before I started the show and I had just gotten with Nick.

And I had some people around that should not have been around. And I think it worsened it even more. And my postpartum was so bad to the point where I was like, what if I just smother him in myself? Like it was bad. And like people don't talk about it because it's like, as a mom, you feel so much shame. You're like, why would I ever say that? Why would I ever think that? And I'm like, I'm not going to hide that from people.

because I think that I found like this really weird community on TikTok, honestly. It was like seeing all these videos of like, I think because, you know, your phone picks up on your conversations. I was having like real conversations with people I thought cared about me at the time. And they, my phone was picking up on it. So I was getting all these like postpartum videos. And I was like, oh my God, this is, I'm not crazy. Like, so I'm not totally fucked up. And like, I felt like, I felt crazy.

And when I saw them, I was like, oh, this. surreal thing like why don't people talk about this why does nobody tell you this before you have a baby like why is this not a prerequisite to having a child to learn how to like see these things and how to deal with them and how to like have the right support like why do we not have that right it's not like two percent of women like this is like majority of women and it's i was like i'm not going to keep this to myself that's not who i am so i was very honest about my about that but women are also scared because because there's a chance that you could take my child. You know what I mean?

Like if you say the wrong things or the wrong person, you could lose your kid, even though you're just hormonally fucked and stressed and scared and all of the things that we go through. So it's like a really sad, it's a really sad place because it's like where are women supposed to go?

We tell us to the first thing your doctor asks you is, how are you feeling? And you're like, I'm fucking great, please don't take my kid. Like, that's so scary. Yeah, you don't want to be transparent. You can't. But what are you? I mean, you know, this is important for the guy, right?

It's like when you think about the low points, what were you thinking, seeing that you were scared to talk about? It's just more expressing, like, how you feel in that moment. Because think about it, you're sleep deprived. Like, you're not sleeping at all. Your body just went through something so traumatic that is so downplayed that it's actually offensive that people act like this is such a normal thing. Like, it is so normalized. that we are not getting enough love and support and like real attention to like what just happened. I created this human.

I brought it into the earth. I literally killed myself nearly. Women die in labor. Like I don't know why this is so like okay and normal. It's like women lose their lives to bring life into this world. And you're telling me I should go to work in two weeks. It's insane. And you're saying that after everything I've just went through and everything like I should just be okay.

Like, I'm not okay. And it's okay to not be okay. But there should be more support for women. And I think that one thing I loved about Asian culture, which was one of the things I was coming across, was they have these hospitals and they take care of the mother. That's the forefront of it because the mother is going to take care of your kid, right? Right now we just need to hold you skin to skin and breastfeed. And that's it. We need the love.

We need to be supported. And we don't have that, especially in America. It's a fucking joke. And then you have to kind of go home and deal with it yourself. Yeah. And they give you nothing. Like, they don't even give you like a booklet. Like you get nothing.

It's just like a, here's your baby, good luck. That's crazy. How did you deal with it? I didn't. I literally was just like, all right, well, I read a lot. I read a lot during my pregnancy as well. And I kind of, I feel like your natural instinct just kicks in. And then obviously immediately I loved him after I was like the next.

day and then it was like okay I'm fine you know but filming filming took me out yeah which which which I mean we have to definitely go there because I'm curious because you immediately go into filming but yeah but but just almost like a full stop on motherhood is that I find this to be such an interesting arc in your life yeah because I can imagine there were many years where you never thought you would be a mom yeah I went back and forth a lot like I was like maybe I won't have kids maybe not maybe I'm selfish and I'm I don't need kids. Like maybe I'll just, you know, skip that whole chapter along with getting married. But there was a big part of me that always knew I wanted to be a mom and that, you know, I, I wanted

that legacy and I wanted that opportunity to have that love and bonds that I wanted as well. So I think there was a bit still in there of the selfishness. But I was like, I can do this and I could do this better and I would genuinely love my kid. And this would be like my bestie, which he entirely is and will forever be. You know, is it almost fair to say that, you know, throughout your life, you wanted to be loved so much? Yeah. I mean, who doesn't?

That you created someone that you could love. Of course. To the same degree. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And now when you think about motherhood, even to this day, right? Yeah.

How did it change you? I literally, like, I couldn't even name every single thing about me from the way that I think, from the way that I move, the things that are important to me, the people that I allow around, my tolerance for bullshit is even less. Everything. I mean, I think more about the things that come out of my mouth. I'm more intentional. Everything has a purpose.

Everything has to mean something for me to do it and spend my time and my energy. And I'm constantly working on myself to be better for him, which was not something I really cared about before. To be entirely honest, they're the biggest reflection of you good and bad. So I think that regardless on everything, he was going to make me change whether I wanted to or not. Yeah. Look at that.

Look at that. I always say children are angels. Yeah. And they are sent to us to literally change us, you know? And it's like they teach us to become parents. Dead ass. I literally was like, well, thank you because I don't know what I'm doing. So yeah.

No, he definitely like, and he's always been, he's very funny. He's definitely steered me the whole way. Like, he's a very opinionated little two-year-old. I love it. I love it. And I love it for you, you know? Yeah. Enjoy more ways to save at Ralph's, like low prices in every aisle.

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