We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Colton Underwood: I Thought The Bachelor Would Make Me Straight “I Prayed To God”

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

Colton Underwood became one of the most talked-about figures in reality TV after going from the NFL to The Bachelor, before publicly coming out as gay in one of the most scrutinised moments of his life. In this rare conversation, Colton reflects on growing up in football, faith and the Midwest, while privately knowing he was gay and trying desperately to hide it. He speaks about praying to be straight, building a fake public life, and the pressure of becoming “the virgin Bachelor” while living behind what he describes as a spiderweb of lies. Colton opens up about the rules, secrecy and fear that shaped his relationships, the NFL locker room culture that kept him in the closet, and the blackmail that pushed him toward finally coming out. He also reflects on his time on the US Traitors, the backlash that followed, and why he believes some viewers still misunderstand who he is now. Now a husband and father, Colton speaks about accountability, healing, and what it means to stop performing after years of hiding who he really was. Colton Underwood, We Need To Talk This conversation includes discussion of addiction and mental health. Please take care while watching. We’ve included links to support resources below: Samaritans: https://linkly.link/2kE85  MIND:  https://linkly.link/2dx8b  CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Colton here: https://www.instagram.com/coltonunderwood/?hl=en https://www.tiktok.com/@coltonunderwood (00:00) Intro (01:51) Early Life and Upbringing (07:14) Growing Up Gay in the Midwest (09:07) How Colton’s Parents' Divorce Affected Him (12:13) Navigating His Sexuality As A Teenager (24:28) Being Drafted into the NFL (29:21) Navigating Homophobia in American Football (37:03) Saily Ad (38:11) How Colton Got on The Bachelor (42:35) Why Colton Became Known as the Virgin Bachelor (45:46) How Colton Hid His Sexuality on The Bachelor (48:14) The Fence Jump That Changed The Bachelor (56:15) Backlash from The Traitors (01:02:39) ID Mobile Ad (01:04:29) Colton Opens Up About Xanax & Alcohol Abuse (01:06:56) Being Blackmailed And Coming Out (01:15:51) Paul Surprised Colton (01:17:22) How Colton Met His Husband Jordan (01:19:36) Going Through Surrogacy in the USA (01:24:29) Paul Surprises Colton With A Letter (01:25:44) Writing His New Book, Dear Bishop (01:31:56) Would Colton Do Another Reality TV Show? (01:33:14) Most Memorable Conversation (01:36:46) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Saily - Download from the app store and use code WNTT at checkout for 15% off. For more details: https://saily.com/wntt ⛵ iD Mobile: Ditch the texts and ‘Make it a Call’ — your voice is more powerful than you think. https://www.idmobile.co.uk/make-it-a-call?affiliate=marketing%7CYouTube_Display%7CMakeItACall_Brand&utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=Display&utm_campaign=MakeItACall&utm_content=Brand Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I had a folder of boobs on my phone because it was the only way to protect myself. I didn't want to be gay by any means. You go from the NFL to the Bachelorette. How does that happen? Please welcome, Colton Underwood. I always joke that I was bread not born. Like, my mom was an All-American volleyball player.

My dad was an all-American football player. But the NFL want to talk about their wins. They want to talk about stats. They want to talk about Jersey sales. Like, they don't want to talk about somebody's sexuality. All of the coaches in my life at some point said something homophobic. Was your father? one of those people.

Oh, yeah, I was. But The Bachelor was at like an all-time high. I was so naive of like what this show was gonna do to my life. I just needed to get out of there. What happened? The scary part is I had somebody following me and taking pictures, and then that's when the blackmail happened. So it became much easier for me to take more pills

to not have to look that direction. Was it abusing painkiller drugs? Every day, I was taking Xanax during breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Meeting Jordan, getting married, having a kid, All of those things change you. But you were on celebrity traders. Yes. And what I understand is that you literally received death threats.

What I would say is that is 15 versions of me ago. These blatant lies have to stop. Would you do another reality TV show? All right. Before we again, hit follow and tap the bell icon. It allows us to continue bringing you this show that we all love. We can go anywhere in the world right now. I'm in L.A.

And we'll bring you the most phenomenal guess. And the only thing it cost you, is to hit follow and tap the bell icon. This is where I want to go back to. So your parents, what I understand is they were both athletes. Yeah. I always joke that I was bred not born. Like my parents knew what they were doing when they got together.

Like my mom was an all-American volleyball player. My dad was an all-American football player. And then my brother and I were both full scholarship football players. So like we always like, we were like, we were like, we were. built for this. Like this was literally. Literally like they didn't even they never saved for college education because it was assumed we were going to be on scholarships. Really? Yeah, from a young age. And it's just, you know, like my I remember my dad, my sophomore year high school is like, I'll buy you your car because like we don't have any money for your scholarship. Like if you're

going to go to college, you have to like you have to get that scholarship and figure it out. So like there were perks of it too, right? Like I was always in a sport. But they never saved up for our college because it was sort of like an understanding. It was assumed. Yeah. You know, so over the course of this conversation, I'll have a few surprises for you. Okay. All right.

So I want to show you my first one. Okay. All right. Because I was looking at this. So this is on this topic. Tell me what's happening in this photo right here. Do you remember this? Yes, I do.

Okay. So this photo is, oh gosh, I don't have my teeth either. I think it just fell out. Either that or it was one of those, my dad took the, string and tied it to the door and shut the door and pulled it out because I hated pulling my own teeth. I had to have him do all of them almost. But anyway, this is at the homecoming parade. I was in, we call it JFL Junior Football League. I was in the JFL and we were riding on the float in the parade. There you go. So much fun. There you go. So that was your team. That was my team,

my JFL team. And then we were yeah, in the small town. We had a float for homecoming. Okay. And that was, I was on on like the hay bales on the float on the float now now were you were you all champions at at this level no god no no i didn't like i didn't really develop into a good athlete until my sophomore year high school really yeah yeah i was always the chunkier uncoordinated goofy awkward kid this is interesting yeah so so now the reason why this is so interesting to me is because so i was playing football at that age yeah uh and football was my entire life, American football. Yep.

We have to say American football. I know, I know. You know, I feel weird. Having to say it. I know. But American football, right? Yeah, yeah. So I was obsessed with it.

I would watch it all the time. I would, I lived and breathed it. Yeah. And what I distinctly remember is that the best player on our team was the quarterback, who was the coach's son. Right. And I remember that there were a few players who, so I grew up in New York. and there were a few players who were their dads played for the Jets.

Yep. And they were exceptional, right? And so there was this competition between them. Yeah. Now, your dad was all-American football player. Yeah. But you're saying that you were not that great. No, my dad was my coach too.

And it was your coach. And for our JFL team, but I was never treated like the coach's son. If anything, it was the opposite. Like, I think I tried to quit every week. Did you? Yeah, I just was, like, frustrated. And I was never the best player by far. You know, even as far as talent goes, my entire career, I was never the most talented

player. I was always just somebody who worked really hard and, like, you know, studied the game and knew where my, like, strengths were and knew where my weaknesses were. But at that level, I just, you know, I remember I used to have to duct tape my pants because, like, the strings and the belts wouldn't, it just, was like I was a big, hefty, awkward, goofy kid. How does that feel knowing that you're probably assumed to be super talented like your dad, but it's not showing up for you?

Yeah. I think that's like, that was where like the push pull of like me trying to quit every week is because I would be so frustrated of like, why am I not good, you know? And I think, you know, he as a coach would always try to push me to perform better and to work harder and to just push myself. But it just for how young I was, I just, I remember it always being so frustrating. And then all of a sudden, in high school, just clicked. And then I grew three or four inches. My body started, I started feeling more comfortable in my body. It was also confusing, too, because I remember, like, physically, everything started to click. But then as I was going through

puberty, I just was like, oh my gosh, like, that was when I had my realization to myself that, like, I'm gay. So like everything on the field was clicking. And I was like, you know, breaking records my sophomore year, junior year of high school. And then like finally performing at the level that everybody sort of expected, you know, me for my parents to perform at. But then I was like, internally was like really, really just not in a good place. You know, it's so interesting that you began to outperform as you went. through puberty. Yeah.

But at the same time, you're realizing you're gay. Yeah. Right? What year is this to? This is... 2006 to 2010 was my high school career. Okay. So what I distinctly remember is that same-sex marriage wasn't even a...

wasn't even talked about at that time, especially in Illinois. Yep. So from a representation standpoint, was there any type of... of gay or queer representation that you could look at, look up to? Look up to, no. We had one gay kid in our entire town. Out gay kid. Okay.

And he was sort of the joke. Like everybody, even our coaching staff and other players, it was sort of you didn't want to be that. You didn't want to be called that. And people were when they did things that were soft or bad. So I just, that was always something that just stuck with me. Like that poor kid's name is like etched into my soul forever just as far as like you know, coaches and people using his name of like, don't be a, you know, you're taking it up the

ass. Like that was sort of like the words used and, you know, you're like this dough of a human being still being formed and still learning things and all of a sudden you put your like coaches on a pedestal and then they're speaking to you like that. It's just really, it was like really jarring but I didn't grow up in a town that had a lot of representation you know there was like you know like I said one and there was only a handful of of black kids in my town so you know there were times that I was faced I didn't really have like you know a diverse group of friends until I got to college so I like that's you know that's where like for me things really started you know

coming together was once I had college did you college fair yeah fair so so then in in high school to too is, so your parents, they split up. They split up for once I was in college. In college. Yeah. Okay. So they stayed together through both my brother and I in high school.

High school. Okay. What I know from the relationship space is that many couples know years prior to them breaking up or getting a divorce that it's not working. Yeah. There's arguments. There's friction. Yeah.

And then oftentimes the kids know. Yeah. And the kids often often place blame on themselves. When mom and dad are arguing, sometimes they save themselves. You know, it's because of me, right? Were you aware of any turmoil between your parents when you were at that age? No. And in fact, I actually took the opposite approach where I didn't, I didn't say like, oh, this might be because of me. I sort of blame them. And, you know, I was like, how dare you sort of practice? Like I said, I grew up in the Catholic Church, like divorce wasn't really a thing.

You didn't do that, right? Like, that wasn't. that wasn't something we spoke about. So I just thought, like, how dare you guys sort of always preach to me finish what I start in my life? You never let me quit a sports team. You never let me quit anything in my life. And then all of a sudden, you're just going to quit your marriage. So for me, I never took any type of blame in that.

It more so humanized my parents for me. I always sort of put them on this pedestal of like these elite athletes, these great parents, these good people. And they are. They're fabulous. But I just remember vividly. when they got a divorce, it just shifted, like, the, it just everything sort of changed in my head of like, oh, these are human beings too. They don't have it all figured out. They're going through a hard time.

And they, you know, like they've sort of fallen from their pedestal. And my relationship with them changed both and in a very cool way. But it's just, it's a much different relationship now than what it used to be when, you know, they were my parents and married. And like, now we're both, I'm friends with, both my parents individually. My dad's remarried. My mom's single. She's an overshare. It's TMI all the time. But like, I love that about her. It's like, it's such a fun relationship now with both of them. Yes. All right, which is good. Yeah. And the impact, it sounds like what you're saying was it was it was hurtful. You were, you were in pain. Yeah. At the moment. But it ended up being a positive impact for you. Yeah. I think it's just, relationship evolved.

with your with your parents yeah i think it just it taught me how to um what i don't want out of a relationship like i think you know there were so many good and great parts of them as a as a as my mom and dad and then also just as like in their relationship that i got to witness but then at the end too i really sort of took a lot of notes of like okay like this is not how i want you know things to go down so i would rather have be a straight shooter and have open and honest and hard conversations throughout my relationship so then I never have to like let them like fester and become this big thing. Yeah. Because I think like that's what I saw happen.

Yeah. No, it's it's a great lesson. Yeah. It's great that you were aware. Yeah. Yeah. To pull that away. Totally.

So then right before that being in high school, I'm curious about this is who do you believe you were trying to impress more? Your coaches, your teammates, your dad. or yourself. I would say my coaches and my teammates, or my coaches and my dad. Like my teammates were maybe like up there too, but I more so was doing it because like those those were like the people from such a young age that sort of always were the people that I needed to perform for.

Like that were like that that was just sort of like the structure and the hierarchy that I grew up in in sports culture. It's like these are the people you're supposed to make happy. These are the people you're supposed to perform for. And like you have to make them look good. So like you have to go do your thing and like shut up and just take part in it. So I would definitely say, you know, and like now like looking back on it, I spent more time with my coaches. You know, I was lucky to have my dad as my coach too.

But like most kids spend more time with their coaches than they do their parents growing up just at sports practice. So like that's like that's something I try to remind. lot of coaches, especially youth coaches that have, they have a responsibility in front of these kids to watch what they're saying because oftentimes you have a bigger impact on that kid's life than their parents do. And I just remember that so vividly of all of the coaches in my life at some point saying something homophobic and sort of saying it with this like matter of fact tone. Always, it was always a negative connotation. So it was like only when somebody messed up only when somebody looked like a fool only when somebody looked weak is when they would say

something along the lines of you know being gay and i was just like so i just remember from me i was like it just like you know people talk about being like shoved into the closet i just like have this like feeling of like just being pressed like down into myself and just it was rough you know colton i have to ask was your father one of those people oh yeah i was i was i mean That's the thing too is like I'm just as much at times to blame too. Like I was at a certain point in my career, I was a captain of these teams. And, you know, at times I let it go and participated in the locker room banter just because I wanted to blend in. I wanted to fit in.

So yeah, I mean, I think like that's, you know, it sounds terrible. But like that's like, that's part of sports culture right now. And it's sort of like one of the last frontiers. it's going to take to like sort of get over that hump is trying to figure out how to handle it. It's just because, you know, I just remember, I was like, I can't really take a stance here because if I do, then it opens me up for questioning. And then I, once they ask why I'm defending this, I don't have a girlfriend to back up the fact that I'm not gay. So like, I just didn't want to, I didn't want to open myself up to that critique. Okay. Did you perform in other ways

outside of the locker room to try to continue to create cover. Oh, yeah. You did. Okay. I had a folder of, I had a folder of boobs on my phone. Did you? Just because that was like a common locker room thing of like sort of the guys peacocking and showing who they're dating and seeing like look at what this girl said.

Like I had no clue where I got them from like the internet somewhere and they weren't like real anything. But like I just always remember if anybody asked me, I always had that to go to just to cover. Like, that's, that I think was one of the more challenging parts about being in the closet is just like the sort of the spider webs of lies that you sort of build and deceit. And not only from everybody that is in your life, but from yourself too, because you sort of like lose yourself in it. And you're just like, you know, there were so many defense mechanisms that I had that I put up. Yeah. But now, how did you handle then relationships?

because by the time you're what, 17 years old, you're captain of the football team, you're outperforming, good-looking guy, over six feet, blonde hair. What color of your eyes? Hazel. Hazel. I was saying, they kind of look glimps on the light.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got hazel eyes, right? You are, considered the quintessential, all-American boy. Yeah. So how did you handle women. Poorly.

I mean, and I think like, you know, sadly, just everything you described is like why they end up probably making me the bachelor is like, it was sort of like, you know, I think even my college football coach called me like the poster boy of our football program. Like he was like, this is everything you want. Like, because I didn't date and I intentionally just wanted to, you know,

spend time with my sport and training and education. Like, those were like the main things that I sort of hid behind. in a way. But it was really confusing for me because on one hand, I knew I was gay. But on the other hand, you know, I was still a member of, you know, at that time, FCA, fellowship of Christian athletes. I was still going to Bible study. I was still really trying to like pray to God to like help me out, take this off my plate. You know, and it's just like, I'm a big believer and I still am a man of God and I still am a man of faith. And I'm a big believer. that he works through us in these just really cool ways.

And so I got that confused with, oh, when you became The Bachelor, that's him working through, like, helping you out to become straight. You know. So then, are you saying that you were asking God to help? I just wanted him to, like, make me straight. I didn't want to be gay by any means. Like, I just knew that for me, the path of sports, faith, wanting to be a dad, being gay was a much harder path to go down than just trying to figure out how I can live my life as a straight man.

Knowing now, like, that's ridiculous to like keep saying. But like, it was truly a way of like conversion therapy for myself. Like, I have to like keep doing this because it will make me straighter. So I'm sure you've heard of internalized homophobia. Yeah. Okay. So when I look at internalized homophobia, I often think that, I think many people think, okay, it's a one incident thing. Yeah. But in actuality, it's chronic stress. You're living with it. And chronic stress does all kinds of things to you, right? All kinds of terrible things to you. Totally. So what were you feeling at this period of your life, 18, 19, how are you dealing with the level of, of stress that you were going through. I mean, I just like, I remember I would lock myself in my room and I would watch Ellen.

Truly, like, Ellen was my therapy at times just because not only just of her story, but just like she just always had like a happiness to her show, right? Like to like just people she had on and like her little her bits and all of that. Yeah. So like it sounds so silly, but like that was definitely a way. staying rooted and grounded with my family. Like just I was 35 minutes my car. I went to Illinois State.

It was 35 minutes away from my family house. And so I would drive back on some weekends and go fish. Just being in nature. I always like found a way to just distract myself and like dive, throw my identity into something else. Because if if my identity was in something other than myself, I didn't have to sort of look myself in the mirror and, you know, identify as a gay man. So I was always trying to, you know, throw my full identity into whatever I was doing. Okay, fair enough. Do you ever try to then continue the facade by dating women or at that time?

Yeah, I would go on dates. I wanted to be seen just enough so people couldn't question me. So that was always something as like, you know, there was like a few in college, I think two or three girls that I like talked to. and would be seen with every once in a while just to keep the pressure off. But like, I just remember in college, I would never let my college friends talk to my high school friends

and I would never let my high school friends talk to my college friends because I would, you know, I would tell all of my college buddies I'm dating a girl back home or I'm seeing somebody there. And then at home, I'd be like, I'm seeing somebody in college.

Sorry, like, so I just never wanted them to cross-reference each other and be like, this is not adding up. I see it. So it was hard because then I can't really have a, you know, full friendships and relationships with my friends because like they never really got to you know see all of me yes yes so and and you haven't told your parents at this point no you haven't told your brother no right and i would imagine you and your brother were close yeah we were very close and we and we

played against each other and football i mean he was one of the i think he was the he was the he was the second person i told okay yeah okay but but in my family in your family yeah yeah but at that time he didn't know no no Okay. Did anyone know? At that time? No. No, I never, I was very careful for, you know, even when I was physically experimenting with guys and trying to like figure myself out, I would never, I was so careful on how I did everything. Okay. Can you walk me through that being careful? Because what, what I feel when you're telling this story is I feel sadness. Yeah. because well it gets sadder because my the carefulness the only way that I can think of to protect myself

is I would only hook up with married men straight men straight married straight men so that was like the only that was sort of my my my my rule that I would never break because I only when I was in the closet that would be the only time I would ever hook up with men was if they were married you know these straight married men because they they had more to lose and I So if they tried to, you know, ruin my career in my life for football, they had a whole family that they'd be, you know, risking as well. So it's a messed up thing to think through, but like it was a form of self-previted, like, it is, for me, it was just like a way to protect myself. And just sort of assure that like things, you know, wouldn't get outside of my control. But also, too, is, you know, if you're having relationships with anyone, there's an emotional connection. I was very good at taking that part out. Really?

Yeah. And to be honest with you, like that was a really hard learning curve, even with my relationship with my husband now, is like, I'm very, very good at, I can cut my emotions off. Like, when it's just, it's sort of a skill that I don't like that I have.

But like, I'm very good at separating my emotions from myself when I need to, to make decisions. Okay. Yeah. And you feel like that was almost in a, adaptive behavior. Oh, it was definitely a learned trait for sure. Yeah.

Like, it was sort of just like a numbness that I can sort of just throw through my veins whenever I need to. And I just like, because I had to do it for so long. So it's just like one of those things that sort of like was a learned skill that I hate that I learned how to do. Yes. So then by the time you graduate from college, you are such a phenomenal athlete that you can now go to the NFL.

Yeah. Which from a, I mean, for anyone who's not familiar with the American football, right, I would imagine that to become a football, a professional football player is like, it's like single digit. Less than one percent. It's less than one percent. Yeah. Yeah. So it is, it is, it is incredibly, incredibly hard.

Yeah. To do it. The moment that you find out, because there's a draft. Yeah. Right. I didn't get drafted. So if you can walk everyone through this, because I think it begins to show how hard you had to work once you're getting.

Because I think a lot of people say, oh, you're a professional football player. You got drafted. You're getting paid millions of dollars. No. I mean, I had an incredible junior season of my college career. Broke records, All-American for every list that you possibly could be in. And I stayed there because at that time, college football was different, right? and especially at that level, I was Division 1, AA, and I returned for my senior season,

you know, had an injury. One of my teammates got kicked off the team who was like, not only a brother of mine, he's still in the league, but was the reason that I was as good as I was. Like, we just worked really well together as my defensive tackle, and I was the outside end. So I lose the guy who's somewhat responsible for me being as good as I am, and then I had an injury on top of it. And, you know, I still just out of responsibility. from the coaches in the league, they still made me an All-American. And like, because people game-planned against me and prepared for me in a certain way that changed how they played against us.

Okay. So there was like that level that felt good, but it definitely tanked my draft stock. So I end up going undrafted. And I think there's 200 and just shy of 300 people that get drafted every year. Okay. I was not in that top group, but I had a bunch of offers to get drafted. go sign on different teams. My signing bonus that I ended up taking was, I think, $3,500. $3,500. Yeah, I remember it was a tough decision because I think the 49ers offered me $15,000.

And I just remember my agents being like, you have a better chance of making it on the charges roster than the Niners. So we think this is a better move. So I said yes. Even that, Colton is blowing me away. I didn't realize this. I mean, that is a lot of money, but it's, it's for NFL, I know. It's nothing. Because then once you're in it, like my practice squad, like, because then once I was on practice squad, it was like $3,800 a week because you're on a weekly contract on

practice squad. So you don't sign for the year. They can cut you at any point. You know, but still, like at the end of the day, my first, you know, my first year I made six figures, which is hard to do on any other job coming directly out of college. Yes. So like at least like that perspective is there. And also like I had to remind myself like I made six figures playing a kids game.

You know, granted, I guess we're all grown men playing in the NFL. But like playing a kid's, a game that was designed for kids to play. And I only had to play for four months out of the year. Yeah. Right. So like the perspective was always there that like this was cool and so different. Like, you know, this was my job. Yes.

But it wasn't a lot. I was doing it at that point, especially on practice. squad more just because it was a dream of mine. Look at that. All right. So practice squad for anyone who's not familiar. So you are on the team. Yeah.

But you're not playing in the games. Yeah. So there's an active 54-man roster. And so that means 54 people dress for the game. And then there's an additional, I mean, the league has changed so much even since I've been out of it now. I think it's like 10 or 12 people. I don't even know.

But then those players are there on the side of the side of the game? lines for games, but they are only there for practices. So we, you know, we get the team ready. So like when we play with the Patriots, I would be Grunkowski on the scout team. Or if we played somebody who had a good edge rusher, they would move me to, you know, to the edge rusher to go to practice. So basically my responsibility on the team was to prepare my teammates for the game. Gotcha. And I liked it. I took a lot of pride in it. Yeah, yeah. And you're living the dream. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you live, did it feel like you were living the dream? I think so

I think there was times where I was like Okay this is really fun I think like I just I have bittersweet moments of the NFL Because like it is It was such an achievement to get there But then once I got there Like the smoke and mirror started to like

You know go away And I started seeing You know more of like the business side of things Okay So that was a little like confusing for me All right and probably just heartening Yeah a little bit As well your dad

Yeah He must have been incredibly proud though Very. Yeah, my parents, my parents were so proud. They came to all my preseason games. It was, yeah, it was a lot of fun. You were still maintaining the cover. Yeah. You were still closeted. Yep. Were you still on the side of participating even in homophobia in the locker room, etc? Less when I was in the NFL. Okay. And I also think, like, people in the NFL locker rooms kept in themselves a lot more. when you're in your 20s and you're in college and you're sort of partying together and you're all

single. But like, you know, I remember I'm in there with like Philip Rivers who has eight kids at the time and like these are like grown men with families and like no, they're not sitting there, you know, shooting the shit and talking about their personal lives. There was of course a couple people who were like the single playboys and like wanted to talk about girls and who they're hooking up with. So there was some performative aspects still there for me. But it was less of the homophobic. I would say I still like I still witnessed it. My case specifically I was the same draft class as Michael Sam. So I just was in a different locker room than him. So like you know everybody in the press was sort of signifying like you know we're ready for this look at this. This is so great.

Like we accept him. We love him. But then I'm in a different locker room that's like shitting on him behind his back. Can you can you talk about Michael Sam for anyone who's not familiar? And I distinctly remember this moment. Michael Sam was a SEC defense. defensive player of the year. Like he was one of the most outstanding, but we played the same exact position. And he came out as gay prior to the draft. And I don't know like what the stats are, but I'm a, you know, I'm a betting man that if you go and look back at the SEC defensive player of the year, they're mostly drafted in the top three rounds. He, after, you know, coming out, he slid to the seventh round and signed with the Rams at the time and then got cut. And then

picked up by the Cowboys briefly just to sell some more jerseys. And, you know, I just, it's just that story to me, it was so obvious what was happening. Can we talk about that just for a second? Yeah. If we could nerd out on this topic, because I distinctly remember that. Yeah. I thought he was going to go higher in the draft. Yeah.

I thought he would be picked up and he would be playing immediately. And so he went lower than everyone had predicted. Yep. And then he went to the Rams. I definitely remember. But he was cut before he played. Correct. Now, to this day, when I look at news articles,

is the statement, I believe, coming from the team, is they cut him for a variety of reasons, none of which deal with sexuality. Yeah. But what do you believe actually happened? I believe that the NFL doesn't like people becoming a distraction in the locker room and or a distraction to the team specifically. And I think you see that.

Like there's only a handful of players who can get away with it. The Tom Brady's, the Patrick Mahomes, the Travis Kelsey's, these players who their brand becomes almost as big as the team they're playing for. And so they're somewhat safe, right? But at the core of the NFL, they don't like when players get bigger than the league. they sort of like suppress it a little bit. They don't like that. And they especially don't like it

when it becomes a distraction. And that plays out in the media. They want to talk about their wins. They want to talk about stats. They want to talk about Jersey sale. Like they don't want to talk about somebody's sexuality. So I think like that at its core had a little bit to do with it. You know, my heart actually goes out to him as a player too because like, you know,

I was playing closeted, which is like different. But like playing with that pressure of being the first out gay player on top. of just like the pressure of the learning curve, even him playing in the SEC and then going to the pros, you know, it's a pretty big jump from skill. So like you have to really bring your shit every single day. And I can only imagine like the pressure he felt, you know, from having, because, you know, he pretty famously kissed his boyfriend on draft day when he got drafted. And I just remember that meme went everywhere. And, you know, all of the sports, you know, the sports media was running with different headlines.

there. So, you know, it just, he had a lot of pressure on him. You did. He did. And to your point is, you know, he, and he, and he never played out. No. He's never played out his dream. So you're witnessing this. Yeah. So, so what are you thinking as you're observing this? I think it just solidified my decision was the right one of not coming out. I mean, sadly, you know, it just, I think I can look back and say, like, this was a man. who was supposed to encourage me to come out and be myself. And if I had, you know, the courage at the time to raise my hand and be like, I'm a gay player as well, you know, maybe that triggered another person.

Maybe, you know, so like there's always those what-ifs in my head of like what could have happened. Just like strength in numbers, right? Yes. But unfortunately, I just, I just saw too many. And I also like, it might have been different if I was a second or third round pick, right? Then I might have had a little bit of leverage. or a little bit of safety and security in my job.

But at the time, I didn't want, I didn't want even, I didn't want people knowing my name outside of the coaching staff, right? Like, I just want to be there. I want to work hard. I want to do my job, keep my head down and just go to work. Stay under the radar. Yeah. So currently, there are no, there are no openly gay players in the NFL.

Yeah. Right. And this is currently, right? knowing everything that you know, if you could go back to that moment, Michael Sam, he's out. Yep. Would you have also come out then? I mean, if I'm sitting in this position now where I'm at, yes, I should have and I would have if I had known my life would look like this. But I think there's, like, that is the part about being closeted that is like hard to sort of articulate is there's this over.

there is this overwhelming fear that your life is over as you know, which is sort of true. Like once you come out, your life is over. Like, you're starting from scratch. And I think there was that fear of like, I just put 17 years into this sport. Why would I do this to myself and come out and jeopardize and ruin? Yes, I'm still the same player. Maybe I even become better because I play looser, faster, quicker. And like, I just, I don't have like this heaviness to me.

but I just think there was too much uncertainty. Like, you know, my job as a defensive end was sort of calculating risks and like trying to figure out how to like, you know, play chess against this offensive lineman and go sack the quarterback and make tackles. Like the calculator risk of coming out, like the cons outweighed the pros, unfortunately.

Yeah, yeah. So I think that's a poetic way to describe it is that your job, your entire life was about calculating risk. Totally. And I'm very conservative with how, you know, I went about that. Yeah. So, and I've always been, like, even, you know, playing the position I played, I always played within the system, but I was always a gap, like, this is my gap, this is my

responsibility. I'm one 11th of this defense right now. I have to do my job. Like, some of my teammates will make the tackle if they need to. But, like, if it comes my way, like, I got this. Yes. I see it. I see it.

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With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price, moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg. How do you go from the NFL to the Bachelorette? Like, how does that happen? I mean, I just, I remember my career being over. I hurt my shoulder. I was going through this arbitration with one of the teams, and it was a year-long process. It was brutal. I had to get surgery and sort of come to terms that, like, I was done. And so I, I like in a somewhat joking way, but somewhat serious way, said to my dad, like, I've been playing football now for 17 years. I was like, can I just take a year off and just like, this is the

amount of money that I got from my settlement. They paid part of my contract out. I said, what I'm going to do is I'm going to take this money. I'm going to put it in a bank account. And I'm just going to like try to see if like anything, like if this works. Like just I'm going to just go follow, you know, a passion of mine. And I fell into the Bachelor of franchise. And I didn't really realize the magnitude of like filming all three shows back to back to back. Yes. It was life changing in a crazy way. But it was sort of a running joke and sort of how it started. It was like, I just want to take a year off. Like I've never really done this. And for me being closeted at the time too, I was like, this is perfect. Like if I end up getting on this, maybe I'll find my wife.

wife, right? You know? So it was a wild, wild experience. It's very well, because you then join three of, you, you join one of the biggest franchises in the world in the three shows. So you did The Bachelorette, The Bachelors in Paradise, and then The Bachelor. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So when you look at that, was it, how many years of your life was that? One. What? Yeah, I mean, It was, it was 2018. And then I filmed, I think, yeah, and then my Bachelor season aired in 2019. That's what a lot of people, like, I filmed three shows back to back to back. So when I was in Bachelor in Paradise, Bachelorette was just airing.

So I never got to watch that. And then by the time I got off Paradise, I was already in like fittings and meetings for becoming the Bachelor. and so like I didn't really have a lot of time to figure out how this was changing my life in public because I was like working I was back in front of the camera doing the thing it was funny after I wrapped Bachelor I went to Vegas to some of my friends and we went to a Kane Brown concert and his team invited us backstage for it and I just like was curious of the venue and I like popped my head out on the stage and the crowd went crazy and like I remember like that was like the moment. Like his manager ran down and like, what the hell was that? And I was like, I'm just like looking at the crowd.

And but I was like, oh, my life has changed. Like at that time, like it was at, the bachelor was at like an all time high as far as like viewership and ratings and stuff. But I didn't like,

I was so naive like of like what this show is, you know, going to do to my life and my career. Yes. Yes. So, how does it feel to poke your head out and see how many people are there? It's thousands probably.

Yeah. It was a lot. There's thousands, right? Yeah. To have them go wild. How does that feel? I just, I don't know. Like now, like, I loved the fame aspect of it for about 18 months. Like, I just thought it was so fun and cool and different.

And, like, I was like, this is exhilarating. And then now looking back at it, I'm like, it's so famous, so silly. Like, no human is meant for it. Like, I'm, I think at that time I was 25, 26. And I'm just like, the fact that I had to press. process that. Like, every conversation that I had with fans or people in public was so one-sided because, like, they knew everything about me, but I, you sort of lose this art of getting to meet people just because, like, they're, like, sort of pressing you with everything they know about

you from reality television. Right. So it was really, it was sort of challenge. I mean, and on top of all of that at the same time, like, I'm, like, internally trying to figure out if I need to come out or, like, how, like, how I'm going to come out now at this point or, like, what's going to happen? So it just was, like, a real, you know, it was like, a real, confusing weird time for me. Right. And to your point is, I think the audience, it's just what I've noticed with reality television is it's this true parisocial relationship, right?

For sure. The audience believes they have a relationship with someone. Totally. But they only have a quasi, a pseudo relationship with a sliver of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not all of you. For sure. So what were some aspects to you?

you that you wish the audience actually knew and they were aware of. Oh, I mean, like, looking back on it now, I wish, I wish I would have been a little bit more vulnerable about just talking about my struggle with my sexuality. I think there could have been something just interesting in that conversation. I mean, I don't know if it would have been possible just with how, you know, I grew up in the church and how conservative my family was and just like, there was so many complications to that theory too into like the way that I could have gone about it. But I think even like opening up that conversation would have been a it would have made my path to coming out a little easier of just like

saying like, you know, you know, I always got asked like why I was a virgin. So that was like the storyline that they wanted to run with and I hated it because I just I didn't want that pressure. And then I also like didn't want people digging in because at that time I had hooked up with men. So like I didn't It just put me in a position for people to come forward and discredit or give another reason why I'm a virgin. How did that even come up? Because I do, I distinctly remember at that time, before I knew your name. Yeah. I knew.

I was a virgin bachelor. Yeah. I went into it. I went into it. Like, my whole heart was like, I'm not going to disclose to them that I'm a virgin no matter what. I literally told them I was a virgin on night one, a bachelor. like these producers are so i have never like you know i had just i had only gone to therapy my last year when i was with oakland raiders so i had like i didn't really understand the

psychology of like well one hollywood but then two just like these producers are basically just very very good therapists and so you're sitting in like this chair and i'm like tell me about that had to be hard what is it like and i'm just like i opened it up like immediately and i was like just gave them everything, which they loved. Thank you. They loved. So that's unfortunately how it sort of came to be. And then it became my entire storyline. But there were so many complications to it too.

Like there were so many reasons why I was a virgin. Like it was my faith. It was obviously like the one that I didn't tell publicly was my struggle with my sexuality. So yeah. And then also like I think there was always like in the back of my mind a little guilt of like why would I do that, you know, why would I go down that path? a woman if I know in my heart that I'm gay. But then there was a part of me that was like,

I think I need to try this or like maybe once again, like the silliness of like maybe if I have sex with a girl, I will become straight. Like you just like convince yourself like at some point. I just was so good at convincing myself that the next step, I will become straight. Like I need to get engaged. I need to get married.

I need to lose my virginity. Like all of these different things were sort of steps to becoming straight. Okay. So when you were then the bachelor, you believe that. You believe that to get married, have sex with a woman,

and that would change your sexuality. I thought so. I thought like that was like, like, why else with an opportunity like that fall into my lap? If not, like, sort of put there to sort of help me. And like, what I was telling myself is like, this is going to force me. me. I'm going to be so publicly straight that I will never be able to be gay again. So, like, on one hand,

it was like, okay, even if it doesn't work in like this conversion therapy or this way of like convert, like, doesn't work, I'm so trapped because I'm so publicly known now from being the bachelor that I can never do gay things again. So that was sort of what I was like telling myself. Wow. That's something. That's something. Yeah. And even while on the show, were you scared that someone would out you. Oh, I always think in the back of my mind I had so much fear that somebody was going to try to out me.

But then, like, I was very careful in how I went about that. Yeah, and I had sort of my rules and sort of just like this layer protection. I always like, it's, you know, it's why I got my first tattoo just so I can become identifiable. Oh, really?

But then I ended up just wrapping it when I would go hook up with guys and be like, I hurt my wrist, you know? Oh, wait, I'm sorry. So you got to. it specifically. Yeah, I got it specifically. I tatted my entire wrist. Just basically, once again, like these levels that I was going to to sort of just like try to force myself to not be gay. So because that's a cross? Across, yeah. So you're saying with that. Yeah. I mean, the thought

process, well, one, like, you know, obviously my faith is important to me, but also I just, I wanted to be in a position where somebody could be like, yeah, I hooked up with a guy he had a cross. I didn't, you know, I don't know. I don't know. know where I was exactly going with it, but I was like, at least like now people will be able to identify me outside of just like this dude. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So now, on The Bachelor, can I talk about you leaping over this six-foot fence?

Yeah. Okay. Because, and this is really what I want to say about it. Yeah. Is I'm very impressed with it. Thank you. Very impressed. Yeah.

And it's not only the leap. It's the fact that you did it with a jacket on. You had like hard shoes on. And boots. You had boots on? And you had jeans. Yeah. Can I ask walking to the, well, as you're walking to the fence, in your mind, are you thinking, I'm jumping over this thing?

No. I didn't know what was happening. I just like, I knew that I just needed to get out of there. I just, I didn't know if it was going to open or not. And then by the time I got to it, I was like, oh, yeah, I could clear this. so I'm just going to do that. And so I cleared it. It was like adrenaline is a powerful, powerful thing.

Yes. I was coursing through my, I just remember like that night. I basically when I did The Bachelor, I had, I don't want to say like a rule, but like I think, and I also think my directness is what got me

the gig in the first place. As I said, like, look, I'm down to make a great show with you guys. My only rule is just don't mess with my top three. Because like I knew a certain level of like, production at that point. Like this is my third show. So like I had enough context of how they did the other shows to know there's a little bit of producer manipulation. There's things that get, there's bombs that get dropped in to like affect relationships and dynamics and conversations.

So I basically just said to them. I said, hey, just do me a favor and just don't mess with my top three. So your top three choices, you say, yeah. You say just don't manipulate those. Just don't manipulate those. Okay. And like I'm good. Like entertain, do everything. And by that point in the show, something happened where I figured out that they manipulated it and I was like like and also like weirdly at that point is like the only time where like the lead has really any power because they have millions of dollars invested in in the show and they're not going to restart so it's like you finally sort of have the leverage that you never had the entire time but once again like that was like a learned skill for me just like I don't know

I just felt like all of these aspects I sort of developed just from being so good at controlling situations because I had to in my life and just was my sexuality. Yes. Like I just became like this master of being able to like figure out how to, you know, position myself in a way that protects me. Okay. Okay. So then was your intention to leave in that moment or just get some space?

Oh, leave for sure. I went so I went back up to the room. They take your passport. They hold that. But I had my wallet, which had my driver's license. So my plan was just to go get a new passport and dip out on my own, cover my own flights. I was like, I just want to get out. I was in Portugal at the time.

Okay. So I had to go to the U.S. embassy, get a passport. And then I was lost. I'm bad with directions. So I jumped that fence and I was two hours out just wandering around. So you walk for two hours? Oh, yeah. Because I saw they were trying to find you.

Oh, yeah. They tried to find me for a bit. Yeah. It was interesting. Yeah. You know also when I looked at that, I watched it with the sound on first. Then I washed you with the sound off. And I watched you come down the stairs and I saw how you looked.

And I wonder, were you trying to escape the show? Or were you trying to escape the facade of Colton that you had built over the years? I think it was a mix of both. I think like that, they're just like, that was like the perfect culmination of like, Like, what the hell am I doing? Like, it just was like, what, like, this is so silly. Like, I'm, like, upset because of, like, making this TV show. But then I'm also, like, upset with myself that I'm, like, going through all of this.

I think there was always sort of that, like, level of shame that I carried throughout. Like, you know, I do think there's a reason why I was The Bachelor. And, like, for me and my life and my path, like, it was one of the only ways for me to come out. like just how everything unfolded and played out in my life. I truly believe like there was a reason and like that was one of the only ways that I would come out. I should have never been in that situation. I should have never been the bachelor. I should have like there's a there's a bunch of different ways to come out not in that way.

And I should have done something differently. But that wasn't in my cards. That was sort of just like the life that I sort of fell into. And I think there's a lot of. of frustration in that in that moment that you see that like makes a lot more sense for people you know now and when they rewatch it absolutely absolutely now now from that show you then went on to do several other shows yeah so there was a show that was a documentary yep of you actually coming out yeah right you also were on mask singer yep uh you were on my wife's favorite traders

celebrity traders with Mora Higgins who is... She's the best. She's awesome. She's awesome. You know I love so much is I love to see her

shine globally now. Yeah. I told her that after the show I was like, you're about to be a star. Like, she's like, what do you make?

You know, and she's pretty well known in London, but like the US based and I was like you are incredible. Like, you're just so genuine

and authentic and you speak from your heart. Like, and it's not always proper. And that is like the best way to do it. Yes. I was like you're about to, you know, have the time of your life. Look at that. Look at that. And I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you. I think her star just continues to rise. Totally. Yeah. Totally. So now across these shows, though, yeah. A place that we have to get to is audience opinion of you. Yeah.

So what do you perceive audience, the audience, the audience, view is of you. Especially, I mean, I think Traders is, it's fresh, but collectively across all of these shows, because you're well known. And we know that people love, people have opinions. Yeah. So what do you believe the overall opinion is of you? I think there's probably quite a few that are just confused.

Like, you know, the Bachelor fandom is pretty conservative. You know, and most of them stuck by me. supported me and, you know, loved me through my ups and my downs. I think most people are just sort of like unsure. I'm like, who is this guy? Like what, like, what, you know, I've been, you know, I've been on their screen since I was 26. So I'm really like, I've had high highs and I've had low lows in front of the world at this point. Um, I think like the shows that I've done have always been so serious. And so like I've had to like there's always lighter moments in them, but like the bachelor is like a dating and love and you're supposed to get engaged and it's like has a

serious tone to it. My documentary and coming out and what I was going through at that time of my life was dark and hard and challenging. So then like when these fun opportunities to go on the mass singer and all these like I jump on those because I get to like I'm not a very serious person. And I'm also like not like, of course I played football, but like I'm not as super aggressive person either. I just like love to have a good time and I'm like down to like just go, you know, shoot the shit and put myself in uncomfortable weird positions like a shot of show called Beyond the Edge in Panama where I survived in the jungle. Like that type of stuff is fun to me. Just like trying new things and like being a little bit more lighthearted. So like that's when like,

you know, traders comes up. I'm like, oh, I'm going to like give it my all. I'm going to play this game really hard. But like I'm going to have a good time and I just sort of want to like, you know, fuck with people on here because like that's like such a psychotic like it's a you just have to like throw yourself in that mindset when you're playing a game like that yes so I bet people are just confused they're like who is this guy who's this guy right and and I'm I'm I'm with you right so here's how I view it I think that the majority I think the majority are with you yeah they're like you know what totally called we like we like him like you know we see the struggles we've seen you're right from 26 to 34 yeah right we've seen them on the screens we love him that's the majority

i think there's a group most recently from the traders oh yeah who got super upset and i'm trying to understand exactly why they were so upset because i was trying to ask my wife this too uh because what i understand is that you literally received death threats yeah and there was so much turmoil within the audience that even the show had to state, look, you know, chill out, basically. Yeah. Right. So there's that group.

And I'm trying to understand. And actually, even if you can't help me understand, what happened to cause, what do you believe happened to cause people? I mean, there's no reason to give anyone a death threat. Right. But what inspired that? I think people associated time in my life. from something that happened at this point six years ago to this heightened character of what I can call myself a character on this on traitors they sort of drew a direct line of this is what happened six years ago in the ending of a relationship that like really was publicized and I was in a really dark place in my life and they sort of drew a direct line of to how aggressive I was playing the game

and how I really threw myself in there and they're like, oh, this is a pattern. Okay, I see. And in reality, it's not, I don't, I would not call that a pattern at all. It was more so just like, you know, I was playing the game really, really hard. And the people who I targeted and who I went after, you know, just happened to be fan favorites from very big franchises. Like the Bravo world and, you know, Big Brother world, all these, like, they love their people. and, you know, just like, you know, people there were people definitely rooting for me too. But like that's what makes that show so polarizing.

But I think like that's my sort of my reflection on it is, you know, I've obviously had to deal with my past and I've had to take accountability. I've had to apologize over and over and over and over and over again. And I always will. I always will. But what I would say is like that is so far like 15 versions of me ago. Like that's like the best way to put it is like I've I've lived so many different lives like you know meeting Jordan getting married having a kid like all of those things change you and like this really fun beautiful way coming out change me yes going through you know like intense therapy you know coming out to myself it took me two months of therapy just to come out to myself so like all of these things changed me and the audience was not a part of that right outside of the Netflix show but even then it's like that has a gloss to it. that isn't always as raw as what I was going through. Like I was quite literally doing therapy in my closet. My dad's because I moved back in with him because I was abusing my medication.

So like I was doing my therapy session from my car outside in the driveway or his closet just to have privacy because I wasn't ready to tell him that I was out yet. And I didn't want him overhearing me with my therapist on Zoom because it was all during COVID. So no place was open for in person. So it was just like they weren't a part of that. So I could easily see why they just want to make their own assumptions. But I will say like I will go out and say like I'm definitely not like I liked how I played the game traitors. Like I really liked how I played really, really hard.

But that is not like an accurate representation of how I show up every single day as like a dad and as a husband. Yes. I'm not like that in real life. But like when I go to play a game and I'm there to make TV. Like that's just sort of, that's, you know, what I do. Right. And to that point of there could be a level of being upset because of past incidents, that was almost what I was going to get to with the third group is I think that there's a third group who, to your point, haven't gone through on this journey with you. Right.

Right. And so they're seeing these snapshot moments. Yeah. And they're saying, well, you know, look how he's showing up here. Has he taken accountability? and you're saying, no, no, I have. But more importantly is I've changed as a human being. Yeah, I mean, I'm also just, I'm not really in a place of my life where I'm like,

I know who I am at this point and I'm not going to sit here and try to convince people to like do it. And also I just think like, you know, there's plenty of places that people could look to see me talk about what happened six years ago. Like there's plenty of information out there to see. where I've spoken at length on that. But for that to come up again, so, you know, just so heavy for, you know, when I'm with my kid and, you know, my husband and he's receiving these messages and threats, like, that's at the point where I'm like, this isn't cool. Right.

Like, you know, it's one thing if you don't want to be a fan of mine, don't be a fan of mine. But, like, you can't be, you know, the death threats have to stop. And, like, that adding fuel to a fire or this false narrative. just like, just blatant lies too that were, you know, sort of spreading. It just was sort of like a dog pile effect that was happening. And it was like a slow motion train wreck that I just like didn't know. I was like, what is going on? Yeah.

Like it was my favorite show that I've ever filmed. I loved filming traders. It was my hands down, the favorite, my favorite project. Wow. Of all the projects you've done. Oh, for sure. Wow. I'm a big, like, I love playing games.

Yeah. And so to like have that. I mean, also just like the show. is so gay at its core. Right? Like, I mean, it's the most campy. You're in Scotland playing dress up with Alan Cumming as your host

and somebody's getting murdered. You know, like, it's so gay. Yeah, this is very cool. Very, very, very cool show. Hi, I'm Kate. And James, you better call me. Welcome to ID Mobile. Please need your message after the tone.

James, you know that I worry about you all the time because I'm your big sister. For me, there's no better. a feeling of relief than hearing your humour. I can't hear that in a text message. I can't hear your excitement. These pictures are great that you're sending me, but I want to speak to you.

Rather than just getting all these onslaught of photographs of this, that and the other, tell me what it's like. I'll go just the places. People say, like, Paul, you're great at communicating in person. Yeah. But do you know what I came? I'm not a caller.

So what are you then? A text her. No way. I'm shocked. Well, you're very naughty. And, you know, considering who you are. Come on. I feel like I need to give you about 50 lines.

I will call. I will call. I will call. I will not text. It is bad. Yes, it is. We have to do these things to make those connections with people. It might be a colleague at work.

It might be a friend. It might be a family member. But unless we make them connections, then what is it all about? You have said it so poetically. We are truly here to connect. We're in partnership with ID Mobile and Mental Health UK. And if we take anything away from today,

it's the power and the positivity of making a call. So we want you to stop texting. And let's make it a call. I promise I'm going to do it. Will you? I have to talk about you. hiding from your dad doing therapy. Yeah.

While also having, was it abusing painkiller drugs? No, it was, yeah, it was a mix of, well, I was on Lexapro that I was not abusing, but Xanax. I was struggling with my Xanax usage and alcohol. Okay. Are you open and talking about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so this is, was this coming off of The Bachelor?

Yeah, this is coming off of The Bachelor. I had been on and off Lexa Pro throughout the Bachelor taping. And Lexapro? Lexapro is antidepressant. Okay. So that was my antidepressant. There was some gnarly side effects for me

that I didn't, I wasn't fully like, you know, like honest with my doctor and even myself with like how just mood swings were happening. And it just made me like the best way to explain it, like the combination of medicine that I was on between the Luxpera and the Xana, and then alcohol as well was I was like playing myself through a video game so it was like this um I just was like I just sort of had this like overhead view of myself living my life and it was just like this weird feeling of that I had no consequences so I just had like this um I'm blinking on

the word that I'm looking for but it's a disassociation yes of myself okay so like that was the state of mind that I was for a stretch I was in that for about two weeks at my worst stretch so I was like every day you know I was taking you know Xanax during breakfast lunch and dinner really on top of yeah yeah okay so okay and you were back at home no I was in West Hollywood at that time oh my I just we had just ended the relationship and it was like a confusing time for me because like once again, like at that time, I left through my identity at whatever was not me coming out. So at that point, I was The Bachelor. I was like, this guy who ended the show and did this cool thing, didn't end it in the traditional way. And then all of that sort of goes away. And then that's when like the black

mill happened. And once that happened, the, it became much easier for me to take more pills to try to just like not have to look that direction. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And so, um, the blackmail. Is this what ultimately forced you to have to come out? In a way, yeah, I sort of credit it. I think that's like a little bit of me trying. I'm a glass half full type guy. So like, of course, like it was a dark and weird time, but it was the push that I needed. Yeah, there was a letter sent, an email sent that I had to forward to my publicist. So I had to come out to my professional team before my family. So my publicist, my manager, my agent all. I had to.

to tell them that I was gay before I really even had the opportunity to tell my family. And this is because someone sent an email. Yeah, I denied it for a while. And then my publicist is a gay man. And, you know, I credit him for really helping me come out too. And then also the guys who ended up being the executive producers of my Netflix show, they were sort of there from the entire thing. So they were sort of the ones that put me in a position to allow me to come out to them first.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. And I would imagine, so the email, what did it say? What did it contain? It contained factual date of, factual date and time of when I went for one of my hookups with the guy. So at that point, like, I had known that I had, you know, somebody following me and taking pictures. Oh, my goodness. So that was like the scary part is like, you know, I built my life up to that point being very careful. And then of course, like the one time where I sort of just was like Lucy Goosey with it and like didn't really, you know, I didn't really protect myself. I was wide open. And yeah. All right. Now, so then you were followed. So what was that? Do you believe that was a cell? They claim that they had images. But like the, I never, I had never saw them. I don't know if my team saw them. I was sort of at that point. I let them handle it. Like that's what's. you know, why they're on my team and why they help me. Yeah. And then my publicist specifically, he basically had a lot of the, the details of what was happening, you know, for my prior relationship. It just he put all the pieces together and called me. I remember this. I was in Illinois. I was on at my grandma's house in the

driveway. And he's like, I'm going to ask you a question. And he's like, I just want to let you know, like, whatever the answer is, it's going to be okay. I was like, okay. And he's like, are you like, are you gay? And for the first time of my life, I immediately answered yes. And I just, I don't know why, I don't know how, like, because I had never really been able to like say that, especially. And he goes, it's like, everything's going to be okay, but this makes so much more sense. And then eventually, you know, it was time after all the conversations happened about like, why I should document this that I was able to come out to my family. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That conversation with your mother and father.

Yeah. It was great. I talk about it in my book, Dear Bishop, but the only person who I came out to not on camera, I did on camera, but we, I don't want to say reshot it,

but like I didn't even tell the producers. I was like, my mom had such a hard time with Bachelor. So like, she cried one night because like one of the producers said something, like she just had a really hard time showing up for television.

It was not her. And like, I didn't want to put her in a uncomfortable position. So I took her to dinner and I told her at dinner the night before we were supposed to shoot the scene. I was like, hey, I just want to let you know like I'm coming out. And, you know, she thought she was getting punked at first. And then it was just like, it was really cute. But I just, I, you know, just out of respect like you learn like my mom would not have done well if I would have sprung that on her. You know, and I like, I know I should have probably gave

my dad the same heads up. But my dad's so good on camera. And like, Like he's also like he's very composed. He just is like a good person too. So I trusted him with that. And like he had a good time and had, you know, positive experiences on The Bachelor. So I sort of knew him well enough. Yes.

Yes. And how does it feel? How did it feel that night with your mom to be able to allow her to see, you know, all of you? It was great. So she was the first person in my family that I came out to. And then my brother was the second.

And then I told my dad. So. Yeah. And what's, what's, what's, what's the emotion when you tell your, your mom, your brother, and your dad? I just think like, you know, I think there was like a little bit of a hesitation of like, okay, sort of like, what do you have to say about all of this? You know, because, you know, like, I put my family through a lot. They had to be on Bachelorette with me and they had to be on Bachelor with me. And so they sort of like, were like, what is going?

And this is like, it was like whiplash for them. Yes. A little bit. But they were so loving and so supporting. And I think like that was sort of my experience with coming out. I know this is not common out there. And I know there's like somewhat of a privilege to this. But like it was so beautiful because I kept gaining more confidence.

Like everybody that I came out to for the most part was just so loving and accepting. And it was great. So. Yeah. Yeah. I think too, I think about your, your dad. Right. And I've got this photo here. Oh, boy. Oh, yeah. That's from a bachelor, bachelor. Bachelor. Yeah. So when I see that, what strikes me most is how much respect and reverence you have for your dad.

Yeah. So I can't imagine that was easy at all to then tell your father this. Oh, yeah. I'm curious. What was his reaction? Immediately, what was his reaction? You know, he's, like I said, he said all of the right things. I mean, people got to see it on the Netflix show. Like, you know, he was basically like, who can I tell for you? Like, how can I take this off your plate?

Like, immediately, just stepped up and, like, he, like, that's something with my dad, like, you know, I credit a lot of my work ethic and my problem solving skills to him. just because I watched him do it throughout our entire lives and, you know, had him as my football coach and my mentor. So, like, I felt like that is, you know, that was something that I had always sort of trusted, like, just the goodness in him with coming out. But then it was funny because as soon as the cameras went down,

he said to me, he goes, I love you. I'm so proud of you. Go be gay. Just don't become a Democrat. And, like, true to get, like, that's exactly what he said to me. And I was like, okay, like, don't know what that means yet, but like, sure. Because at that time, like, politics for me wasn't really even, like, a massive thing. Yes.

Obviously, after coming out and learning about, you know, different marginalized communities and rights and all of it, like, it's made for some very interesting Thanksgivings and conversations. And then it didn't help that my husband is a top Democratic strategist. So that was an interesting thing to navigate. But I just, like, like, that's my family, though, right? Like those are my people. And like that's what I try to tell people too is like I'm, it took me a long time to find my lane in our community in the gay community. And I take a lot of pride and joy of still having a pretty conservative following just

so that I can be patient with them. I could hold their hand. I could teach them. You know, like even today on social media, there was somebody who wrote a mean comment about my son saying like I feel bad for that kid. And, you know, instead I, instead of just, you know, firing. back some high I just want to take the time to educate this dude like what like let's break this down what do you mean by that guess my kid's happy and he has two loving dads so that's my role and like

me or need it took me a long time to figure that out but it's like and I sort of credit him too of like just helping teach me and like me teaching him I'm like hey hey let me just tell you like okay noted on the democrat thing but like let's look at some of the democratic politics or policies versus the Republican ones see which one supports your son you know there you go so you know um that that that is beautiful yeah and you're underscoring actually one of my biggest lessons being a father and that is is remaining teachable yeah so being able to teach but also learning along the way right you know uh and that gets me to another surprise oh all right so i want you to take a look at this photo tell me what's happening

What's happening in this photo? What does this mean to you? Oh, gosh. We were in Mexico. Okay, who's the we? Who's the we? My husband and my son, Bishop. Okay.

And we did a photo shoot on the beach with this photographer that was based in Prada Verita. And it was just so much fun. We had outfits picked out for all of us. And we just wanted, I just remember, like, we're going to do it. Like, I want to remember this vacation and this moment. and he's just the happiest kid. And so we literally just got to run on the beach and run around the resort and taking photos.

And he was in, this is, this is him, you know, literally 99% of his day is just with a big smile and curiosity. And he's, I've just like, I learn so much from him every day. It's like perspective, you know. Pure joy. Yeah. That is pure joy. You know what?

Thank you for that. You know what's so interesting to me is you could see how, you know, you have probably never saw yourself at age six or seven or 16 or 18 or 24. Yeah. As Colton the dad, you know. Yeah. And here you are. But you're a dad with Jordan. Yeah.

Right. So can you tell me about when did Jordan enter your life? Jordan entered my life. The first night I met him was at the rap party of my Netflix show. I remember saying to Gus Kenworthy who helped me on my coming out. I was like, hey, like, thank you. This is great. I just don't have any gay friends.

Like I didn't like, you know, whether it was by design or accident, I just don't have any gay friends. He's like, well, let me like throw you a party. So we've had there was 30 gay men on a rooftop in downtown LA and he was there But we had like you know we just talked a little bit I just remember you know he him talking about you know I just remember leaving the night being like okay like I sort of aligned with him and Two months go by go back to Denver and then we're on the same trip to Provincetown The last year's is a P-town and it rained the entire weekend and And so we just had so much quality time.

And I really got to know him and understand him. And we just like hit it off and fell in love in a weekend. And it was like, you know, at the time, I was on all of the apps. I bought premium everything. Yes. Like because everybody in my life was like, you just came out. Go mad. Go wild.

Right? Like just go hook up with whoever. And I was like, I had already done that when I was closeted, right? Like that. And I'm not at Grass's Grasers. greener type guy. So after that weekend, you know, I was coming back out back and forth and we were seeing each other and, you know, on one of our first dates, he was like, you know, like, I want kids and I was like, so do I. And so, you know, that's not an extremely common thing for gay men to talk about on

their first date. So I was like, okay, like there's definitely something here. And there sure was. It just was, it was like perfection. It was perfection. Yeah. It was perfection. So now how long have you and Jordan been together? Five years this weekend. Five years this weekend. We first met, we met on Memorial Day weekend in P-Town, and then married for a little over two. Okay, married for a little over two. All right. So one is congratulations, two congratulations on that. But yeah, we started the baby process even before our wedding. Oh, did you? Yeah, because it took us about two, two and a half years. Okay. Yeah.

So the process, the surrogacy process, I've noticed for gay men is incredibly challenging all over the world. Yeah. And from what my research tells me is that easier in the States, but still challenging. Right. So easier in the States versus, say, the UK. Totally. Which is why so many people come from the UK over to the U.S. How is it still challenging?

What laws do you believe need to change? Well, I think I could like speak specifically for the U.S. right now. There's this organization I work with called Family Equality. It is legal in 13 states in the United States to openly discriminate against same-sex couples for adoption. So they will not place a kid in adoption or with a family because they have same-sex couples. sex and like legally they can do that. So that discrimination is still open. Little things in other states as far as having mother and father on birth certificates.

So, you know, it changes, I think, in certain states, but some, this kid will have either his egg donor or his surrogate's name on his birth certificate, his or her birth certificate for the rest of their life that isn't really the parent. So like giving birth to Bishop here in California, we had parent one and parent two. He didn't have mother and father. I see. And I think like those are just, they feel little, but they make a big difference for how our day went of like welcoming our child into our lives. I mean, we hear, you know, my line of work, I love advocating for IVF and same-sex couples and talking about my journey and what we've been through. And that's why I'm so public with Bishop and I don't hide his face. And I'm so proud to sort of represent that in our community. But, you know, we've heard horror stories. of certain nurses and even hospitals not letting, you know, one of the dads or one of the wives in because the real dad's already in there.

You know, like that's the language that they use. So that's something that I think like not a lot of people fully consider in all of the states here. I would definitely say the number one barrier is financial. Like it is very expensive. Most insurance does not cover it. You know, there was a couple things passed here in California that make it a little cheaper now with IVF assistance to help,

but we still have long ways to go. It's a very expensive process. And, you know, I always try to explain to people too that same-sex couples that want to build a family, they are quite literally doing one of the most intentional things you can do to bring life into this world. So that already should tell you everything

you need to know about them as parents. Right. Like they're being so intentional about going through this. It's so expensive. It's so time consuming. It's so emotionally draining. But it's so worth it.

And those are the type of people who should be putting kids into this world. So that's like what I always try to remind people. Yeah. I entirely completely agree with you. Yeah. And what I believe should be the litmus test is who is going to provide emotional safety

to our children. That is ultimately it. Right. And when you look at the hurt that same-sex couples have to jump as you're describing. Yeah. It's proof. Yep.

And that's why when someone gives you that comment, I admire you for not going in on them, but instead. Oh, I have. Just depending on the day. Okay. Most of the time, I like to be calm, understanding, patient, but there definitely are fiery days where I'm like, oh, fuck, no, you're not doing this to my family.

Right. You know, and I'll fire something back. Yes. Yes. Yes. So do you think Jordan has balanced you out a little bit? Oh yeah. We're very much ying yang. Yes. Like in almost every aspect of our lives. Like I couldn't tell you what airline or flight or hotel we're at. My husband handles that. But like when it comes to, you know, other like just we pick up, we're really good at picking up each other slack. Okay. Like where like he excels. I. like need help and vice versa. So we're very complimentary, just not only in our life as like partners, but as fathers too.

Love it. Love it. I have a final surprise for you. Okay. Ready for this one? Let's do it. Okay. So this is, it's coming from this side now.

I have a letter for you. Oh. A letter. If you could open that up. Yeah. And give that a read. Proz Colton. Colton is the embodiment of what a husband and father.

should be. He works so hard, he plays so hard, he manages to juggle a million balls and always seems like he's having fun. When he makes a decision, he never looks back. He's all in. There's no grass is greener instinct in Colton. As his partner, it's the best. I always knew that whatever big life decision we made, Colton is in. If Colton is in, he's in. Watching him become a dad was almost as great as becoming a dad myself. It helped me relax into our life together, revealing the good times moving through the hard ones with grace together and always coming back to gratitude. In short, he's the best person I know and Bishop and I are so lucky he's ours. My sweet man.

He's way better with words than I am. That's incredible. I'm going to frame this. I'm going to give that back to you. I'm going to hold on to it temporarily. Okay, okay. Yeah. And then I'll give it back to him.

I know that. you now, well, you have been actually for the last few years because this is your second book. Yeah. But you're an author. Yeah. And your current book is really, I would say, a love letter. Yeah. To your son.

Yep. Can you tell me about it? Yeah. I think, you know, the first book that I did, I was really proud of it, but it had direct sort of safety. I call them safety lies. Like I, you know, I didn't really want to. I wasn't ready to talk about my sexuality and struggling and. growing up and there were some things in there that just like I always knew like at a certain point

I'm going to have to redo this. Writing a book is a daunting task and it sort of you have to be in the right mindset to really sit down and like get it done whether you work with a ghostwriter or not like it is a very intense process. But my husband and I do this thing where we write emails to Bishop. So we have his email address. And so every time he hits a milestone or does something cool or we catch ourselves being like that was awesome like it's my favorite thing when he does x y and z we look at each of like write him an email so we will go then you know we spend so much time on our phones anyway we might as well make it productive we'll sneak off to the corner and and I'll like snap a picture or

video and be like hey you know today you rolled over or like you know the other day we we do this thing where I say Noggin and he gives me not gonna go dude and it's from finding email. It's my favorite thing that he does right now. But the other day he did any headbutted the shit. And then he goes, dude. And I was like, I couldn't be mad. I was like in so much pain, but I couldn't be mad because I taught him that. And so I found myself, I'm like, okay, I have this collection of emails that I have. What if I did like just a short book and like just made it a letter to Bishop? So that's where Dear Bishop came from. And then, you know, the trend of everybody moving to audio, you know, having, you know, the partnership with has shed, you know, audio

to do this in my own voice. And I also like love the fact that it's, it is, it is meant for everybody to enjoy, but it is directly to my son, which was a challenge because there's obviously some things like I wanted to talk about that like, I'm very well aware that he is not old enough to, to hear that yet. But like, my plan is when he is old enough, I want to present this to him. I want to present the emails to him. for him to listen to because I want him to know for me who his dad was. Yes. What I went through, what I'm going through with him,

and my goals and dreams for not only myself as a father, but for him as my kid. So I wanted to share that with him in the letter, and that's what I did. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful. It really is. I mean, even the concept of it being an audio, you know, I think it's brilliant.

And also I think it's inspiring for all parents. I think all dads should sort of do. I think this needs to be like a little, it's like a little bit of like a time capsule. I think like a lot of dads. And I say dads, I mean, moms could do it too,

but like I think dads because, you know, sometimes we're not always known as the most emotional ones in it. Right. When we do have that capability and we actually are, we just don't show it all the time.

I think like it would be really cool for a lot of dads to start doing just like these audio, these voice notes. It doesn't have to be anything big or grand like what I did with Dear Bishop, but like just having something that sort of serves as like a vault for you. Absolutely.

Go back and reference me like, oh my gosh, do you remember that? It's just a perspective. Call it. It's a brilliant idea. Yeah. It's brilliant idea. I had a lot of fun. Yeah.

And writing it. I mean, I could see it. Yeah. Yeah, I could see it. When you reflect on your life, what's one thing that you hope Bishop will never have to go through that you went through? I think I would say I hope that he would never have to compartmentalize his life to the extreme measures that I did. I think looking back, that was something that really hindered me and still affects me even at times today where I'm just, I'm not, I just like, I like having my life so organized and tidy and clean and control, right? So like, I think like giving up, letting, you know, giving up that control for me has been so rewarding.

And so just like my life has been so much better. So I would hope for him, he wouldn't feel like he has to compartmentalize his life. He could let everybody in at all times. Okay. I see it. Yeah. I see it. And I can see how control was maybe to a certain degree now.

You're right. was this adaptive strategy totally that you used to in essence keep yourself safe yeah right it was for sure I think like I don't want to ever make excuses for poor bad decisions that I've made but like a lot of the time when my control came like the control freak in me comes out

it's out of self-defense and it's just because I don't want to go there either emotionally or I'm protecting you know I was protecting a big secret for the longest time yeah yeah what's something that you've lived through in life that you want Bishop to experience?

I think I have two. My first one is playing football. Oh, no. It's a constant battle. Oh, you're passing it down. Really? It's a constant battle with my husband, whether he's going to be able to play or not.

So Jordan does not want him to play? No. No, there's too many injuries for Jordan to sign off on that. Okay. I just, once again, the pros outweigh the cons. I think, you know, the teammates, the camaraderie, just the melting pot of what the locker room was for me. And, like, I took so much away from the game of football.

So I would say that one. And then also just, like, I hope that he can, he knows that he can grow up to be whoever he wants to be. And his dads will support him. Yes, yes. Yeah, I love it. I have to ask, though, because so many people do know you from reality TV. Yeah.

Would you do another reality TV show? Yeah, I mean, I think what I've learned is I never speak in definitive now. So I will never be like, no, I'm done. Yeah, I think the answer is yes if it's the right project. Okay. And that answer, the right project could change on a daily, monthly, you know, yearly basis of like what my soul needs. I just, I love doing what I mean, it's, I always joke. I'm still on my year off.

like this is my this is my year off and I've found a way to make it work for almost 10 years now I was going to say you've had 10 years off yeah so my one year off my 15 minutes of fame whatever you want to call it I'm still here having a good time and yeah I think like even like a show like I would do traders again I would do another another season like that was it was so much fun yeah and that's what life's all about like these fun crazy opportunities yeah absolutely Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

All right. So then, final question. Yeah. Everyone gets this. All right. When you think about all the incredible conversations you've had throughout life, which one stands out as the most memorable? So who was it with?

And what did you learn? Oh, gosh. I think like my head immediately went to the first time Jordan said, I love you to me. And it was just like this feeling. I was just like looking at him. And I was like, it's okay, you can say it. And I don't know what, like, it just was like a gut. Like, we were just connected.

And he goes, I love you. I was like, I love you too. I was, like, almost like waiting for him to say it first. But it's just like I've never felt more connected to a person than in that moment. So, wow. So what's your lesson then from that moment? I think that was like my lesson of I can let my guard down finally in my life and be who I was born to be. like that there was no conditions, there was no guard rail.

Like, it was sort of like in that moment, everything sort of just fell. And I was like, okay, like, you know, here I am. This is what you get for the rest of your life. And I learned a new lesson with him every single day. Like, I truly mean that. Like, it's just we're so similar, but so different in the same, in this, like, weird way that it just, like works so well. Yes.

Yes. I am, you know, it's so interesting because I would imagine that your parents, when they thought about who your spouse would be. Yeah. Right. Jordan has no characteristic in what they thought your spouse was going to be. Right. Right. Down to politics.

Totally. Right. Right. But here, you found someone who turns your light on. Yeah. Who makes you feel safe. Yeah. Who you're able to co-parent with.

Yeah. And I can imagine that they are insanely happy. Yeah. Because of that. They get it now. They didn't at the beginning, but they get it. They understand it now. But they understand it now.

And I think that your journey is incredibly inspiring to many people. And when I say to many people, it's one of these where you have to, you have to, be willing to be curious enough to lean into it yeah and not stand on the peripheral be ignorant and not lean in right but when you lean in it's incredibly inspiring yeah and you look at what you've had to go through what you've had to fight through and that you're still this work and progress right but you found this space of safeness yeah and I love most importantly how you light up with Bishop yeah and I've uh I did this long scroll down your IG and what I notice and you

you said this at some point in the conversation I said yeah is that Bishop is always massive smile happy totally and that in itself it tells me everything yeah about how you parent and how Jordan parents so long long may it continue thank you yeah support system I have the best support system in the world. Yeah. So, yeah, there you go. Yep. All right.

Well, thank you, sir. Thank you so much. Colton, Colton. To think that he's literally and figuratively in a closet. And he's abusing drugs. He is praying to be straight. He's talking to a therapist and he doesn't want his father. to hear. It's just surreal because he's just come off of The Bachelor. He's now a household

name in the United States. He's so famous that, you know, he unveiled himself at a concert and everyone went wild. But yet he's at perhaps the lowest point in his life. I think I'm most surprised at how he owned up to being a supercontroller. So the way, One thing that I didn't want to bring up in this interview is that the two positions I played, I was a running back and a defensive end, the same positions that he played. Clearly, like, my skill level is nowhere near where this guy's is. Being a defensive end, as he said, it is truly about calculating risk. You know, every position is different, and every position, I think, calculates risk to a certain degree.

but I feel it's disproportionately what you do as a defense event. Isn't it interesting that that was the position his father played? That's the position that he played. And that became his life was trying to calculate risk. You would be the first openly gay player of a top flight team. The world was silent. That's when I saw, okay, that person that pat you on the back for coming out didn't mean it. Because when it counts, they're not there.

Yeah. I never knew little Joshi could even play football and be gay. It turned to a point where I won Best Young Player of that season and having to act and hide from these people and I'm getting such a privileged award, it killed me. We had a huddle in the change room and I announced who I was. To the team. And I thought that I'm not going to have a football contract.

That's me hanging up my boots. So it was incredible to see how much love and support was coming my way. What happened next? It was me just at a petrol station filling up my car. And it was someone approaching me from behind, trying to hit me. Have there been times where you have felt unsafe on the pitch? I channeled all that into being the best football I can possibly be. And it's basically to say F you to all the haters.

Finding myself in a club was so welcoming. It made so much sense for my proposal to be there. I'm in a football pitch and I'm kissing my fiancé. This is nuts. I can't imagine what it's like to walk in your shoes. If I had to go back, my one message would be.