We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Dami Hope Exclusive On Break Up with Indiyah “Her Story Didn’t Add Up”

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

Love Island star Dami Hope gives his first sit-down interview as he speaks openly about Love Island, Indiyah Polack and the cheating allegations involving Inside UK star Marlon Garcia. He also reflects on heartbreak, grief, masculinity and growing up Nigerian in Ireland. In this conversation, Dami revisits what really happened in the villa, why he felt misunderstood after Love Island, and how the villain narrative followed him long after the show ended. He also opens up about his relationship with Indiyah, the sudden breakup that followed, and the betrayal he says changed everything. Dami shares the painful reality of watching the viral video alongside his friends and how he’s navigated the public fallout. Dami also speaks about losing his father, the pressure of stepping up for his family, and how grief reshaped the way he sees himself. From identity and race to fashion, friendship and self-expression, he explains why he is finally ready to tell his side. Dami Hope, We Need To Talk This episode includes discussion of grief. If you’re struggling with these themes or your own mental health, remember you’re not alone. You can find help and resources at the links below: CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H   MIND:  https://linkly.link/2dx8b  Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Dami here: https://www.instagram.com/damihope/?hl=en  https://www.tiktok.com/@damihope  (00:00) Intro (03:09) Moving to Ireland: Dami’s Childhood Experience (08:31) Being Black in Late-90s Ireland (10:10) Why Dami Changed His Name as a Teenager (14:56) From Science to Microbiology: Dami’s Early Career (17:06) How and Why Dami Applied for Love Island (23:27) Who Caught Dami’s Eye First in the Villa? (28:20) Dami’s Experience of Casa Amor (33:27) Rekindling With Indiyah After Casa Amor (35:09) Saily Ad (36:16) What Didn’t Make the Edit on Love Island? (38:10) Did Dami Fall in Love With Indiyah in the Villa? (41:22) When Dami and Indiyah Became a Real Couple (45:02) How Much Dami Earned From Brand Deals After the Villa (48:56) What Dami Loved About Indiyah (58:25) Why Dami and Indiyah Broke Up (01:09:15) Dami’s Response to Online Haters (01:09:49) Do Dami and Indiyah Still Speak? (01:10:21) Does Dami Watch Inside UK? (01:11:35) Is Dami Dating Now? (01:15:25) Dami’s Experience of Bullying and Violence at School (01:26:30) How Dami’s Father’s Passing Affected Him (01:34:45) Dami Reads a Letter From His Best Friend (01:37:53) What Healthy Masculinity Looks Like (01:40:14) Dami’s Love of Fashion and Its Evolution (01:47:27) Dami on His Accent and Code-Switching (01:52:02) Paul’s Takeaways Sponsored by: Saily - Download from the app store and use code WNTT at checkout for 15% off. For more details: https://saily.com/wntt ⛵ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Awkward becomes electric. When Bose sound fills the room, you don't just hear the music. You feel it. Your life deserves music. Your music deserves Bose. Find your perfect product at Bose.com. You're three years into your relationship. Then India was spotted kissing inside UK star Marlon Garcia.

When these videos come out, all of my friends, all on their phones, and I have to listen to everybody's phone ping at the same time. What was such a beautiful relationship to now this is how it ends? My dad was a dreamer. Something inside me just always felt like maybe there's more. And then I get a call, it's like,

I'm just calling from on the island. I said, oh, hold up, hold up, hold up, let's make good TV. The first year I meet like 600. Wait, hold on, damn. Yeah, it's like, oh, oh, my dad was so happy now. What did you love about India? I loved her advice to this.

It's not sitting right with me, I'm not gonna lie. Because I'll do with you later, it's fine. Her popularity, shut up quickly. When you two left, I would imagine that there was a lot of pressure immediately to then sustain that, because so many couples break up. They've been accusing me. Cheating, I'm gay, they attack my masculinity.

So for everyone making the noise, what do you want to tell them? When my dad died, I feel like everything anyone could say about me, it just didn't matter anymore. It gives me chills when you said that because I could see he was everything to you. I've never had my heart broken before.

Hey there, before we begin the episode, I just want to say, thank you for choosing we need to talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life, and I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second, and it helps us to continue

to grow this podcast. Demi Hope, we need to talk. Sweet. I haven't seen you to sit down to do a long-form interview like this. This is my first, everyone. I feel like there's certain reasons why I actually stepped away from, you know,

doing things like this. Okay. Yeah, so. Okay. So why talk now? Why talk now? It's because I feel like I have a lot to just get out. So it's not even to, like,

try and convince anybody or I'm this or I'm this person. It's just to actually speak my truth. And you can take away whatever it is that you want from it, but hopefully you actually take an actual understanding of me. Okay. That makes sense. I love it.

I love it. So I think in order to get to know who you are, let's go to the roots. To the roots. The roots. And I feel like the roots are Nigeria. The roots are Nigeria. And it's something I'm proud of. Like I'm proud of being Nigerian.

I'm proud of like, you know, my family. I'm proud of what my family did to, you know, try to give us a better life because my dad was a dreamer. He's the reason why we probably is migrated. Migrated to Ireland. Yes. And, like, just as a kid, I can remember, like, you know, flashes of, like, me, me getting, me getting to this point where we're in Ireland. Obviously, probably not in, probably not legally or wherever. wherever we, because, you know, we're very, um, very clever people.

You know, you know, like, very clever. Very clever people. So it's like, obviously there's a planning place to, like, you know, to make sure we're able to stay here. And I feel like back in them days was a bit easier. Yes. As opposed to now. Because this is the 90s.

Yeah. Yeah. When you came to. I say 90s, I was born 96. Okay. I think I was in Nigeria to like, maybe I was about three years old. And from there, I remember me and my little six. She was two years after me, so it was just me and her,

and then it was me and my mom and then my dad, and then, you know, he'd bring us over to Ireland. And I remember, I think at first we used to, like, we used to live in a hostel with, like, a bunch of, like, loads of different people. Because obviously, when you come to this place, it's like, you're trying to find a place for your, you know, for your family and for yourself.

Yes. And I remember, like, little flashes were just like, it's just like, as a kid, you can remember just little dots of moments. Yes. Of like, oh, I'm in this hostel, I can see, I can see my mom playing chess with, you know, people that she's just making friends with in this situation.

And I know everybody was against him doing this, because I remember my grandmother told me, because my mom's from my grandmother's side, and she told, she was like, we don't have to, you know, to go and do all these things, but obviously he wanted to make something out of himself for the family. I remember this memory of like my dad,

I was sitting on my dad's lap, and then he has, he has a car and he's like, I'm sitting on the lap and like my hands are holding it, but he's there. And I'm only like, I think at this point, I'm only even just five years old. But it's a very vivid and clear imagery I have of him. And then I remember alongside that we finally got like,

I think, an estate house. Okay. So now we actually got like a place. And it was like maybe three bedrooms. It was like our first home there. And, you know, we're shifting from one house to another house. It's just me and my sister until obviously, you know, they start adding, you know, the new members now.

That's the clever. That's the clever part for like why we're going to be able to stay here or whatever, you know. So they start adding them and then, you know. Can we expand on that? Because I get what you're saying. You get what I'm saying, right? But if you could paint the picture, because I don't think your family's going to get in trouble. Because almost everybody was doing that.

So it was you and your sister. It was me and my sister first. We were Nigerian. Like we came from Nigeria. And then I think we had like my younger brother and he was now Irish. Like now he was born in Ireland. And then every other sibling we had after that, me and my sisters don't have any Irish or English names. But those lot, they got the names.

So, like, he got David, they got Cynthia, they got Amanda. Me, it's just Femi and Dami. You know what I mean? It's just straight in Nigeria. But the ones, the ones that came with the Irish passport, they got the Irish names. They got the names too. You get me? Yeah, definitely.

So with you coming in, I wanted to, I looked at that period of the late 1990s, early 2000s, early 2000s, in Ireland. One, because I'm just fascinated about Ireland, but secondly, you know, because you were coming. And I saw that that period was called the Celtic Tiger, where Ireland traditionally had these low, I mean, these very high rates of unemployment. But then during that period, everything took off. The economy took off. And there was this great demand for service workers, so much so that the population within Ireland couldn't maintain it. So I think that was your father being clever, smart, saying, this is a great opportunity for me.

So he selected Ireland. What was it that your father and mother were doing for work? You remember? So my mother has always been like in care. So she's always studied care. She's always done care. Like my dad, I say he's a man of all trains. So strong, you say strong family unit.

Yeah, very, very strong family. family unit because there'll be times where it's like my dad would probably have to relocate from, we live in Wexford, he'd have to relocate to Dublin for the forever job he has to do. And we probably wouldn't see, and he'd have to get a place over there, so we probably wouldn't even see him now. I feel like it was a lot of hard work, whatever they were doing at that age. But, you know, when you're young, I'm just seeing that I want to play outside. I just want to, you know, make friends and stuff.

But then when you look back at it, it's like they've done a lot for us. Like, you know, they've done a lot for me, my siblings. and like, just like, and there's a lot of happy memories in it. Because, you know, some people, the situation could be, like, horrible, but I don't remember it as being horrible. I remember still being, like, a happy, you know, youthful kid that got to play outside. They still got, like, bicycles whenever, you know what I mean?

They still got all these little things that, you know, you see, you'll see other kids get, like, in your neighborhood. And, like, I'm enrolled in school now, and, you know, school is, you know, You know, school is amazing. You're making more friends and you're now part of like a system. Yes. You know what I mean? Like you're actually inside the system.

I'm enrolled in school. I'm doing all these things, you know? So it's like now I'm part of Ireland. Interesting. You get what you mean. But, you know, it's interesting to me because you are Nigerian. Yeah. But at a very young age, you're in Ireland.

So there's a cultural difference. Yeah. There's also a racial difference. Because I was looking at the stats too is in that time, and even now, less than 1% of Ireland is black. Yeah. You know, so you are distinctly different, but how you describe it, you felt like you were fully accepted and brought into the community. Yeah, and at that time, I could say there wasn't actually many black people that lived in our town. So it was very kind of like, it was just very, like, unique and happy that, you know, people are actually accepting.

At that point, it wasn't racism, because I was the kid that I could jump higher than everybody else. I could run faster than everybody else. So it's like, I was using all these talents that comes with me probably being, you know, from my ethnicity to kind of show off. So then it's like people look at that and then they kind of like,

they kind of like pull you closer when you can do all these things. It's not like, oh, it's like I'm a monkey dancing for people. It's just like I'm using these things that I know will kind of give me more a piece to people. Even at the early age to like, you know, but then the only thing I'll say is like, I feel like even at early age

is just when it comes to like, you know, a teacher saying your name or, you know, mispronouncing it. And then that's when it starts becoming, oh yeah, I remember now I'm still kind of different. Yeah, because you do the roll call. And it's like, I'm doing all these things. Yeah, I'm accepted.

But then in the roll call and you're trying to say my name, but she's butchering it. She's not saying it. She's not saying it the way she's saying James and, you know, Henry and, you know, Samantha. She's saying, it's like, I did, do, da, da, and it's very, and then you just remember that, oh, okay. Is that when you change, because you go by Dami?

Yeah, I go by Dami, and I feel like a big part of the reason for it is like, even though I was young, it was still something that kind of stuck with me all the way from primary school to like secondary school, because my full name is Ada-Damola, Omobology, and then, like, I feel like when teacher would, like, when teachers go to the Omobology part, it would be like, they would kind of say an apology and then it would be like this little smirk

like, you know, kids, we make jokes and we tease each other and stuff like this and it's like, it's funny, yeah, but then at the same time it's like, it's not that hard to say and it's like, it can't really keep being like this every day and then now the kids have a new joke, you're like, oh, apology, you know what I mean? But I'm not an apology.

I'm not sorry. You know what I mean? There's nothing. So, but it's a thing that like, it kind of sticks and then as obviously I got older and, you know, even in secondary school, it's like, now at this point, now I'm more than, I'm a teenager, I'm, I'm closer to an adult. So when it's still happening, it's like, yeah, it's not like I'm changing for anyone else, but it's more like, you know, you can just call me, dammy. Just call me damn me, do you know what I mean?

Like, there's some people that actually did try and they'll pronounce it well or they're fascinated by the name or they be like, oh my God, how do you say it? You teach them and they get it, but there's some people never really cared to, you know, ask how to say it. And they'll just keep switching a different day, remixing it. a different day and then, you know. Yes. You know, we had Big Zoo on. Yeah, Big Zoo, okay, yes.

Who I love, right. But his name is Zahar. Zahar, yes, yes. Right, and I was asking him about this. He said his own his mom calls him that, right? Yes, yes. Exactly, only his mom calls it. And I was asking him,

how does he feel knowing that his name, he's had to anglicize his name in order for other people to be more comfortable and he felt uncomfortable initially. Right. So he has to put himself in a place of discomfort

to make others feel comfortable. I feel like this is what often happens when we're anglicizing names or... But now I get it because we're trying to fit into a culture. That part of anyone's life, right, is so important because you're what, early teens? Early teens, probably like 12 years. like 12, 13, 12, 13.

12, 13, you're beginning to figure out what your identity is. Yeah. And I always say that our identity is the story that we tell about ourselves, right? So at that age, what was the story you were telling about yourself? To yourself.

To myself, I feel like I was, the story I was telling to myself is, like I'm supposed to be somebody. The type of music that I liked at that point, I loved Eminem so much. like I'd run away to, I run away on the computer mixing, mixing little, little CDs, CDs of Eminem. Because obviously at that point, you had to like rip file and download it so you didn't have to pay for it and stuff like this. I'll be finding new ways to do.

So I was like, I was kind of like very nerdy and very like, who I was, is very nerdy in the sense that like I would make things happen for me. At the end of the day, say, I'm alone. I got to cry about it. But I will eventually, you know, be where I need to be. make the friends that I need to make. It's the same way, you know, I've done it before. It's just, I will do that again. And am I answering your question?

No, you're answering perfectly. And it was one of the boys that I really loved. Like, he loves rapping, I loved rapping, and we'd always be doing it on break. And it was like our escapism. It was Facebook error. And I feel like it got to a point, you know, in Facebook days,

like, all the kids used to, like, change their names on Facebook. So you try and have a stage name. And obviously, I used to write, I used to write, like, bars. I used to write poems. I used to just write stories and stuff like this. And I remember I was like just thinking,

I was feeling down on myself. And I was like, yo, like, I was trying to figure out like which names I could do. There was one. I was like, damn Zola. I was like, damn Nader. I was like, you know, I was just like free ball and stuff. And I was like, no, that doesn't hit.

Like, what do I need? Like, what do I need in myself? Like, what do I always need? And then I was like, hope. I was like, yo, damn you hope. And then literally I just put my name. that same day on Facebook put my name, Dammy Hope. It was a thing where it was like, there's no mistake now.

I've reintroduced myself. This is who I am. That's what I shouldn't say that. That's fascinating. You named, you came up with that name. Came up with that name. I literally sat down, changed my name on Facebook, came in the next day. It was a thing where it's like, if you know me, it's Dammy Hope.

And then from then it's like everybody just started obviously knowing me as that name. Also, did you have a love for science? Yeah, yeah. I feel like I always just thought biology was the easiest, like, because it's just, you know, a human anatomy, photocentices. It's just how things, you know, are made or how living things. It's just, I feel like it was one of the ones that was just easy to remember. You know what I mean? Especially biology, it's just organs, just bones, as long as you just keep reading about it.

And then when it came to the chemistry aspect, though, I was like, please. Please, not for me. But as you do biology and stuff like that, I think, yeah, I was a big fan of it. But I was more, I feel like I was more of an English. I always just loved English. When I wanted to go to university, you know, when we're filling out all the things that we want to do, I was like, oh, I want to do just anything with literature, journalism,

anything to do with English. And my dad was like, there's no money inside that one, no. So you have to go and look for the ones that have money. And then I'm like, obviously, science, science, I like science too. And then it's like there's biopharmaceutical courses with bioscience. And then it was a thing where I was like, you know, got to do what old man says. So did the science, right? But to be honest, he wasn't lying.

Because obviously when I actually started working and, you know, I... So this is after university. After university. And I actually started working. I got my, you know, first job. And, you know, it was like I started off as a... Not an intern, but there's a different word for it. But I guess it's kind of the same, whatever.

So I started off as that. And then, like, so quickly I built my way up to be the manager. within like two years. Okay. Do you know what I mean? There's people older than me that were there. There's people that were there.

And you were doing what there? I was doing a microbiology. Okay. So I had my own team, like we had ROTAs like, there's two teams, A&B. I managed maybe like 15 people. So we work four days on, four days off. And we were, you know, doing tests for, you know,

microorganisms and food, water. And even when COVID was happening, like we were like a big part and just like, you know, checking all this stuff and padded. Look at that. Yeah. Microbiology.

I'm like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, he wasn't lying, though, because they didn't, they were paying pretty well. They were paying pretty well. And, you know, at that, at that point, you start to like, you start to forget, it's not like I forgot the things that I like, but you get so honed in because this is my job. And, you know, there's times where I actually had more time to do things. Yes. But now at this point, it's like, I have to do all this managing stuff. I have to train people. I have to do this.

So it's like all this literature stuff and all these pootries and all these, you know, things that I used to always do. Where's the time? Right, because you're focused on work. Yeah. Yes. So would you say before you went into Love Island, that you were really happy with who you were, the man that you had become?

Yeah. I feel like before I went in, I definitely felt proud of where I was. I felt proud of where I've reached. But something inside me just always felt like maybe there's more. And I remember, obviously, COVID is like selling down. And I think Love Island must have come around this period. and I was on my four days off at this time,

and I went to one of my best friend's house. And we were just chilling. We were just, you know, drinking Josh and like we do. Because he's the guy that I make all my silly decisions with, because if I go down, you go down. And we're good with that. Everybody has a friend like that. Yeah, we're good with that, like, so.

And I'm saying, who's the friend? And my friend's name is Wally. Okay. Wally, shout out Wally, if you ever see this. But, yeah. But like, I was in Wally's house, and he just, he must have told me that like, oh, whenever our boys had applied to Tink.

And I was like, oh, I applied to Love Island. I was like, I'm chilling right now. Should I just do for the crack and just see like, just do for the crack? I didn't even, it was like a trigger that went in my head where I was just like, you know you hesitate and you procrastinate. But I was like, just do it, bro. And I went downstairs, did that whole recording of like, oh, this is. On the spot.

On the spot, I went downstairs. He was still working because he was working. I was just chilling with him. I went downstairs, did the recording thing. Like, oh, yo, this is wherever I feel like I should be here, blah, blah, blah. And then I posted it. And I remember, I sent it to them. And then I remember, like, maybe two weeks.

I was just working, do my thing. And I get a call. And it's like, oh, hello. Is this, is this? And I was like, yeah, yeah, who's this? Obviously, I'm still in my latex gloves, bro, trying to do all this. I was like, yeah, yeah, who's this?

She's like, oh, I'm just calling from, Love Island. You sent her to this thing. I said, oh, hold up. Hold up. Hold up. Let me just go outside for a second. Take the back room.

And then she's just talking with me saying that, oh, they really, like, enjoyed my thing. and then, you know, just tell me more about yourself. I'm telling them more about myself. And then before I know, it's like, oh, I'm on to the next one. And then, you know, dressing up for the interview, then I want to defline me to the UK. And then I'm on to the next one.

But they always say, like, oh, you're not into you get in. And so we've had a few love island. Actually, several. Okay. Like Maura Higgins. We had Lucinda Strafford. We had, oh, my God. We've had, this is terrible because Megan Barton Hansen.

We've had Shakira Khan. Yeah, yeah. We've had several. All of them, all of them have said that a key reason for going on Love Island was to build Brandt. Matter of fact, some of them said love was never a part of the equation. What's your take? I'm not going to lie to you. And like people might say online, but I'm not.

I just wanted to do for the crack. I just wanted to do just to have fun and talk to girls. So when the day actually happened and I walked in and they were all just, just there, I just said, wait, what? I'm actually here now. And I know everybody's watching me. Shit. Do you know what I mean?

I'm thinking to my head, oh, shit, now I actually have to have risk. Because I'm, you know, you're just, I'm just playing around, just thinking like, oh, yeah, this is my personality. I'm just being personal, but I'm just showing them who I really am. And the, you know, producers and all them are enjoying me. So this is like, why they keep bringing me forward. But at this stage in time, it's like, I'm not really, like, I've seen, like, people get, you know, careers off the back of it.

So you're thinking it's just for the. It's just jokes. It's not anything brand-building wise. But was any part of that you wanted to enter a relationship? You wanted to find love. I guess I didn't really think I'd even find love. I just thought I would just go on and just like, you know, speak to people and talk to people.

And at that point, I guess like sometimes when I watch the show as well, it never really seemed like, you know, when there's white girls, never really seemed like maybe that, you know, black guys were their type or they would be the main focus. So in my head, it's like, I'm thinking if there's no black girls who like are my, I say my first, you know, type, whatever, if they're not there, like, how is this going to work? Obviously, I've dated black and white girls because I've grew up in Ireland as well. So it's not like I'm not open to it or whatever it is. But, you know, you just have that little doubt of when you've seen other, like, you know, people go on the show and it doesn't really seem like

they work out because there's no one that wants them because maybe that's just not their you know, type. And I think prior to your series, so yours is series eight. Yeah, series eight, yeah. So prior to series eight, the coupling was always decided by the contestants. Yeah, the contestants, yeah. Right. And historically, what the commentary always was was there was a pattern that if you were

black, you were left to the end. So was that a thought when you went in and then were you shocked at how the coupling was set up? Yeah. I remember going into the show thinking that, oh, when I get in, everyone's going to have to step forward for, you know, because that's the way they did it. It was like, oh, step forward if you want so-and-so. And I remember I was the first person who came in and seeing all these beautiful girls. And then I'm just like, oh, okay, there's two black girls here. Okay, I can work with this.

This is great. I know I'm going to step forward anyway, so this is fantastic. There was like some white girls I was attracted to as well. And I was like, so it doesn't matter, but I will step forward. And then I remember, so the public are actually going to choose. And I said, oh, God. Really? Always got to put a challenge in front of bro.

You know? But you didn't like that? No, I know. I didn't mind. You leave it. At first, it was just like, because I prepared my mind so much that I would step forward. You know what I mean?

Because I built all the confidence now to step forward, even if no one steps forward for you, do you know what I mean? And this is on national TV. So then I'm like, okay, yeah, this is the public choose for me, which is an easier route. So then no one gets, you know, embarrassed or anything like that. And then, yeah, the public chose. And I guess they chose who they chose for me first.

And it was fine for the most part. Okay. Until... Until, you know, we did the switcheroo. Yes, yes. All right. So let's break this down. Right.

So you go in, truly, who caught your eye initially? I feel like when I went in, it was definitely my ex-India. Okay. Initially, because she had like, she had the, what's it called, the piercing hair. Yes. And she looked like her as funky. and she just looked like she was there's personality here already

because I came with double nose rings so I was like This is a bit of me A bit of me, yeah, okay, okay And then obviously I think the other girl's probably Amber and then Paige and But like, yeah It was India who caught your eye

It was India to cut my head for us But the public had chosen Amber Yeah, they did yeah For you to couple up with All right so once something like that happens But someone else has caught your eye How do you navigate that? And then also, I mean, I've been doing reality TV forever.

I know production is in their trying to work their situation. With their little webs and suggestions. Are you sure this is what you want to do, bro? Like, that's when I knew, okay, this is production driven. Okay. We go and make some TV then. Yes. And how did you find the TV aspect?

Because a lot of people find that difficult. The TV aspect? The fact that if, There was no TV. If you were literally a bunch of people in a villa, you could just walk up, talk to anybody who wants to. But because it's a TV show, that you have to have it structured in a way that drives entertainment.

I feel like for me, subconsciously, you kind of notice these things that they put in place because, like, say, for instance, I want to go talk to someone, like, I want to go speak to her. I'll be on my way to speak to her. And suddenly I'm getting, oh, no, damn it, come over here. And I was like, wait, what? Because then it's like, then they put someone else with this person that I wanted to speak to.

Or, you know what I mean? Or I'm having a conversation that I feel like it's going really well with someone. But then obviously this person has now been sent over here to like talk to this person. I'm just like, okay, guys, you know. When I'm like, I feel like that was the frustrating part about it because it's like, I want to be able to speak to people. I thought when I'm coming here, I'm going to have like free will to actually just speak to the people that I want to speak to and build on it. And I get like, yeah, give everyone a chance.

But going back and looking back and looking back at the. the show because I did watch it for I did watch it to be honest and I remember looking back and I remember some of the like first conversations like India and I had they wouldn't they weren't even there oh really you know I mean so it's like these are moments where like I feel like these were building blocks for us as well that would it be like quiet but you would have noticed that oh these guys actually get along and I'm seeing that you're putting the clip with her and davidie who inherently just not even attracted to her anyway and it's like what's the point of you know this do you get I mean it's

It's almost like it becomes a little game. Yes. At a certain point. But so on this, I think, what's so hard, and this is a challenge that I think every reality dating show has, is to your point is a lot of people are themselves, but a puffed up version, an exaggerated version of themselves. And then some people are just outright faking.

Yeah. And fraudulent with who they're representing to be. So how do you form a relationship with romantically or even platonically with people when you're all, you're each other's representatives and not each other, you know what I mean? Like, so even in that first conversation with India, how do you know, like,

you're getting to know her versus representation of her? That's the thing. I feel like you don't. Because, like, when you come out of the villa, like, that feel like that's when, like the person that you did speak to, those parts of them are still there. but it's not really the full representative of that person.

You know what I mean? And I feel like you figure it out. You actually find out about it when you come out because like in you is like soft-spoken, quiet, you know, general. But then on the outside, she's feisty, she's loud, she can speak up, she does this. And it's like, obviously on the show I get it, as a black woman as well, you might have to keep yourself

at a certain, you know, wavelength to a piece to, you know, so which I fully understand and I get it. That's why, but most of the time as well, like, she just didn't actually care too much. She was just living in the bubble, like a peaceful bubble that she would always say. So, you know, you notice they're doing things or they'd be whispering or they'd be like saying this and that. And it's like they're finding out intel or they're this. And it's like, now you're being performative and we can tell. But I call now no nays because, you know, it's a long time ago.

Right. But I get it. Everyone came in for, you know, different reasons. So I guess like, if you're there to build your own, like, whatever it is, going to do the things that you feel like you need to do to get that. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Can we talk about Casa Moore? Because I think that's when your star power, if you will,

and India's star power and your relationship went to another level. Yeah. So do you remember that? And also, as you're going into that, because you don't know what the audience is thinking. So what were you thinking the audience? was thinking. I feel like before going into that

and like looking back at it now because obviously I was in the villa, India and I weren't that intense yet and we'd only like kissed like you know a couple of times I don't even think we shared a bed yet or I'm not even, I can't even remember, I don't think we had shared a bed or anything yet

and it was a thing where it's like I feel like on the outside I feel like parasocially people are looking at something else and it's more intense for them than it is for us and we'd have this conversation I remember me, Jack's Page India, we'd have this conversation about like we feel like Casamore's coming up

because we've reached this, because we all know like us four weeks, Cassamore has to be coming up so we're all having conversations and we're talking about like, oh yeah, we're all going to be open-minded, like we're all still going to explore and, you know, talk to people or whatever. But obviously the audience don't see these conversations. Right.

So for us, we already like have spoken and we know like what we're going to like, you know, be open-minded to do or whatever. So then Casamore happens and I feel like outside world looking in, it's like I'm the only one that's now stepped out of this relationship. That's not even a relationship because we've probably only kissed three times. Do you know what I mean? But outside world looking in, they're thinking, oh, now this guy is, he's a villain.

He's just like going crazy and he's just trying to get with all the girls. But it's like, I'm just doing things that like are familiar to me when I'm actually dating someone and like I'm trying to get to know someone. And in that short space of time, it was like, you know what? This is a connection that I feel like I could build on. And I feel like Indians just liked me. So I feel like she's going to obviously talk to people as well. There could be black boys there.

I was thinking, my head, there could be a boy from South London that, you know what I mean, that she relates to. So in my head, I'm thinking like, I don't know what's going on. And it's such a short space of time to, like, you know, say, okay, this is, like, I'm locked. I'm locked off because I didn't come on this show to pretend to be someone I'm not or to, like, sacrifice my whole experience

because of what, like, the audience might, you know, think or one when you're not even in the show, do you know what I mean? So when this whole situation happened, and I don't know, I got like an inkling, you know, got an inkling that sister's coming back with something anyway. So I was like, you know what? Let's burn the whole place down. Let's have some fun.

And I remember I was in my, I went to have a meeting with, I think, probably one of the producers or whatever. And then I was just like, oh, I remember I went back down because I had to, like, do my, like, speech of, like, who I want to pick back. And I was like thinking, bro, we got to go crazy over here. We're going at the end of it, you got to say summer's not over. You got to lie.

This really was your line. This really was your line. I was like, no, we got to pop it off. Because if the world is obviously like, because I got like, I got told like obviously when I was like in Kassar, I remember. I think obviously there was the two girls that China and Summer. And I think obviously I was getting to know the boat of them more so. And I remember obviously, I think I kissed Summer. But then I wanted to kiss China as well.

I just wanted to, I mean, you're and I'm a lipster. I just wanted to, I just wanted to see, like, if the sparks will fly. And I remember, I think I was about to do China. And then they came over to me like, oh, dammy, chill out, man. You're doing too much. And I said, oh, okay, fair enough, cool, cool, cool. Since you obviously all feel that way, you know, you got to just got to go hard to go home. Oh, really?

Because a lot of people would pull back. No. If they just heard, if someone just said you're doing too much, I think most people will pull back. No, I just felt like, I knew, like I was thinking my head, bro, everybody is probably against me right now so you know what I mean let's just make good TV like just let's make good TV

and like in my line the line might sound cringy now like you know people watching it but in that space being in that it's like you know what let's let's go guys you know what I mean and then obviously I think sis came

and she obviously had someone by her arm I remember she was just talking about like oh I see his true colours now and mind you I don't know what she's done but I just know she's come back with someone I'm restraining myself and be like are you colorblind Because you're here too with someone else.

Because we had this thing where it's like we're both heartbreakers. And we had that thing and it was like, it was almost like an alley-oop to a dunks type of situation. And it was like, wow, well done, girl. Yes. So you had respect. You had more respect for her after that. Yeah. Like, I never stopped liking her when she left.

And even when she came back, it's a situation where it's like, obviously it's awkward to see. But I wasn't upset. I wasn't heard about it. Even though people, you know, said, oh, I was so angry. I wasn't upset it. Because at the end of day, I'm a fair person and I'm like, person that's like, maybe they actually get on.

And at the end of the day, it doesn't mean our story's over. It just means like we've got to expand and build on to if we're supposed to be together. Right. That's a great window to emotionally how you were feeling because at night, I'm sure there's lots of ideas coming in your mind. Because you said the producers were saying you were doing too much. You see India with someone else, right?

You now want to be with her. You're a couple of all. off with someone else. Yeah. So walk us through what you were feeling at night. I was feeling anxious. I was like, I was feeling like, did I just lose something that I actually really wanted?

I was feeling like, how do I even like approach the situation? You know what I mean? I'm just thinking about what steps do I take to like kind of show her and reintroduce that like, you know, this is actually what I want and it's you. And then I remember there would be sometimes like, I'll try to go talk to her. The producers do what the producers do again.

Be like, no, not today, give it. I'm like, why? What was something that you did that was a loophole or like a, you know, a sneaky way to try to get to her? You'd be doing like, you know, when they're like, you're not supposed to like talk after like, you know, when you're going to bed and obviously we didn't share a bed and stuff. But I remember, I remember, like, I'll speak to her sometimes through the day

or like we'd, like, be passing and like trying to do little touches or just try to be like, oh, do you know what I mean? Just remember I'm still here kind of thing. And we have like little conversations that would like kind of just like amplify like, oh, you know, what I'm feeling and whatever she's feeling. And then I think there was a point where it's like this one was like so viral where I think I went to go sleep outside with Andrew and then she must have followed me. And it was like a whole romantic thing of us, just, you know, running to each other.

And that's when I knew, yeah, no, it's game over. Gotcha. You knew it. You knew it was something real. Yeah, it's mine now. Yes, yes. Can anyone tell me why roaming fees are always so expensive? I feel like every time I get back from traveling overseas, I'm here.

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Find Ollie's sleep solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's OLL-L-Y.com. When you think back at that experience, what were you most surprised did not make the edit? I feel like you come on and you hear all this like, you know, robbing the news of like, oh, I'm this person, and I've been, I'm villainized now.

And it's like, okay, you know, where do I even start from? Because how do I even explain myself? Because what you have is these edits that you've seen. But yet that's not even me for real, you know? Right. So you feel as if you were painted as a villain? Yeah, after like the whole, like, situation. I was painted as a villain that, you know, did something and I'm angry, that, you know, she did it back. You know what I mean?

Some, you know, like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, like, I wasn't, it wasn't something that upset me in the beginning because obviously that was the, like, like, the lore of Love Island. This happens. Like, I've watched it from previous seasons. I make up my own mind about people, but I don't hold them to that because at the end of the day, I know it's a TV show. Right. You know what I mean?

Right. But then, parisocially, people are so invested. And they spin on stories themselves and they make stuff up and it still happens to this day. Yes, yes. You know, even to get into parisocial relationships is because I love how you're using the term because I feel like that's exactly what makes these shows so popular. Yeah. Is that it's not just a passive viewing. It's that the people who watch, a lot of the people who watch these shows form relationships.

And typically what I see is that they see themselves. in one or two of the contributors. So if they feel as if you have done a contributor wrong and they have aligned themselves or formed a bond with that contributor, they feel like you've now done them wrong. Yeah. And you definitely become the villain. Yeah.

No, you're right. You're right. You said it all. Yeah. In the villa. Mm-hmm. Do you believe you fell in love with India there? I feel like a first, like, I see.

I said I did. I think I did. But then I feel like when I got outside is when I really, really fell in love, like, with her, you know? Because, like, dad loved her, mom loved her. And it's like, we're from two different cultures, but, you know, we made it work. And it's like a lot of things, like, you know,

you just, like, gravitate towards each other and you think the same way or we're building this thing together. And it's just like, it was fun, you know? Yeah. And I think also the fact that you met on a show that, you know, historically, not a lot of couples come out of. Yeah.

But you then had to experience a lot of the same things. Yeah. But even if we can talk about you all coming third, because that in itself was history. Yeah. Like that was major.

So going into that final, when you knew that you all were a final couple, right? How did that feel? Because what I'm picking up from you is you really didn't care much about what was happening outside of the show because you had found someone who you were genuinely interested. Yeah. I feel like coming into the finals and knowing I was there from the beginning

and I was the first guy there to reach in that, it was like, even though it was torn, even though we were turred, it just further amplified the fact that I'm a born winner. Because like even through all the transgressions and all the early dumpings and everything else is like, I still fought my way to get to where we are here. and us coming third was historical. I remember the whole opera,

like no black couple has ever, like, you know, gotten that far. And it was like, like, like, Ekin, Sue and David, we always do they were going to win. It was like, we, they had my vote too, to be honest, bro. They were making some good TV for me while I was in there, bro. I was like, oh my God. They had no way we were beating them. Like, they were funny.

So it was like, so it didn't even bother me that like, oh, yeah, it was forced or whatever. It was just like the fact that we were actually there with all our friends. and like we've all done this journey together and it was just like a moment of like wow because you came out with like outside from a girlfriend came out with like real like life

like long friends you know so it was like it was an experience it was like and you know me I love I love friendship so it's a thing for me it's like I've done a new experience now and I even have more friends I have new friends so it's like just a win just a win bro it was good

just a win but it was close between second and third very close yeah close enough I'm close enough If only Ireland could vote. If only Ireland could vote, man. I didn't realize Ireland can't vote. And they all watch it as well. So it's like a whole big thing

where it's like, just let the Irish vote too. You know what I mean? Because I think the app doesn't work because it's on the UKM, the UKM Apple software or whatever. So it doesn't work in Ireland. So they can't even like vote. Yeah, that's the thing.

That's what I'm saying. You're going to won if I can vote. Bro, they were behind me, man. Oh, my God. I didn't realize that. That's wild. Okay. Okay, we need to change that.

Bro. Yeah, you need to do something about that, man. All right, done, done. Let's use our platforms and change that, bro. Let's change that right now, right now. So, but still, third is not bad. It's not bad, no. When you get out of the villa,

when do you first, when do you in India, when do you feel like you two become an official couple? I feel like probably, probably when, probably when we moved into our house because we used to stay my grandmas and then sometimes we stay in her moms

and then when we first got our first, like, apartment that's when it felt like, oh. Because I've never, I've never actually, I've never really lived with like a girlfriend and actually were paying rent together for a spot, you know what I mean? And we're like building on this spot and, you know, decorating and buying TVs, you know what I mean, moving in.

So I feel like that's when it's like, you know, it really grounded out. Oh, yeah, we're really official. Yes, yes. I would imagine that there was a lot of pressure immediately to then sustain that because so many couples break up so quickly. Did you feel any of that? You know what? There was a lot of pressure in the sense of like I would be making TikToks and you know, you're trying to build your platform.

You're trying to like, I'm just having fun with it because this is my first time coming into this like trajectory of, you know, fame and everyone knows who you are. And it's like I'd want to collaborate with people or friends, but, you know, parisocially, they'd be looking like, why is he with? everybody else, but India. Do I mean, mind you, we speak all the time, we're together all the time, and she's doing meetings, she's about to start building this career of hers, and she's doing all these things,

but I'm outgoing, I'm meeting up with, you know, friends that we have in there. I'm making, you know, content and TikToks, but everybody has something to say, and it's like to continue this whole villain narrative, oh, he doesn't even care about her, or he's embarrassing her, or she's a stronger woman than, you know, than me.

And it's like, when do I get to actually live, guys? because it's like, relationship-wise, we're good. But then I feel like seeing all these things, I feel like there was a point maybe you started getting to her and, you know, start affecting all what she's thinking. And in her head, she's actually starting to think, oh, is there something that she's missing here as well? You know, all these little collabs that you're doing these,

like Paige is one of our friends that I would do and she's starting, okay, maybe there's something she's missing or I go to Ireland and there will be like an Irish, you know, influencer as well. We're all at the same network. And, you know, it's just like people seem, you know, worlds collide, but it didn't break us. It's just things obviously we'd speak about,

and then, you know, there'll be boundaries put in place, or you'd be like, you know, take a step back from doing this or, you know, stop doing stuff for, you know, just girls, just saw the noise would just stop. I see it. I see it. Can I even ask, too, is when you came out, right, because you said something really interesting to me

at the beginning of going into Love Island is that you were just doing it as a joke. Yeah. Right. So it wasn't a brand build for you, right? Do you think India was she doing it as a brand build? And I'm not trying to disparage her in that. But I guess where I'm going is that because a lot of,

I've talked to a lot of influencers. And those who use television platforms, what they'll do is that they'll set up their everything, their socials, they'll get agents. They'll set it up so that when they come out of the television project, they can immediately start using that, leveraging that. And I'm wondering, was that her desire? Because then if so, because I feel like when she got out,

she really catapulted. Her popularity shot up quickly. I feel like hers was kind of like she came in. I don't know the reason I can't speak for her, but I do feel like when she came out, though, it was a fresh start for her too. There was nothing put in place. And everything, like, she was hot cake.

Everybody wanted, you know, the girl that said, made the best heartbreaker win, you know? So it was like hot cake, she's pretty. and like people just wanted her in it. It's like she was like the star, it girl. So I feel like everything just like happened for like, you know, just like naturally, you know? Okay. So so her career is taken off.

Do you feel that her career is moving faster than yours? Not necessarily, actually. I feel like in that space, I actually wasn't even thinking about what's happening because I was having meetings with management and, you know, talking about different things. and I was getting deals. I was seeing, like, money that I didn't see, you know, like I could never see one instant at first. I'm like, I'm doing, I'm doing good.

So I wasn't really, like, focused on. Obviously, I'm seeing, like, the big, like, you know, PLT or whatever looking for her, and that's a big, for my... Conlovenry, yes. And, like, but on my side is, like, boo her are looking for me too, and they're trying to pay, but I'm saying no, because obviously I have... I didn't want to do fast fashion.

I wanted to... Because I don't wear that stuff anyway, and it's like, if I am going to brand... building stuff that's not the way I can go and it's easier it's not as easy for guys to navigate outside of that when they do it so like girls can do PLT and do whatever and still manage to do this but if I did that it's like I become boxed in now I'm just another one of you know the guys and they were paying big like they were paying more money that I probably like I've seen that once for like

what a year contract and I'll keep saying no and then they'll keep like asking me no come on are you sure we'll up it we'll up it but I'll still stand in my ground that now this is it's not for me Can you share? How much were they offered? I think they were offering like a first. It was like maybe near like 200K. Wow. And it was just like...

For one year? Yeah, for one year. And it was like, then they come back and they say, oh, we can even get you to do your own X like collab. And it would just be you and we'll even add more. And I was still just saying, no. It's just not, it's not for me. And I don't want to be boxed in.

And I don't want to have like a hard time trying to like, I do this because of the money. And then suddenly now when I'm trying to like navigate these brands that I actually do want to work with, don't want to work with me. I feel like all the things I did at that early on really worked out for me because I would get bigger jobs later down the line. Do you know what I mean?

And they all add up to even way more than that. So do you know what I'm saying? So it's like, yeah, you offer me $200K, but by the end of the year finished, I made way more than that. And I feel like the first year I probably made like maybe like $5, $5,000, $600. So it's like. Wait, hold on, damn. Yeah, so it's like, it's, it's good. There's a lot of money, though.

And you know, bro. Hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait. Cheers on that, man. Cheers on that. Man, congratulations for that. Thank you. Yeah. I like that.

I really do. Because I'm assuming that was a lot more than you were being paid as a microbiologist. Oh, yeah, bro. Oh, my dad was so happy now. Bro. It was shopping time. You know, it was shopping time. No, it was shopping time.

I remember the first time I got like my paycheck. I think my best friend wanted to buy a car. I sent it at least half of the money for the car that he wanted. Bro, just send him on the left and right. Who was, who wants? Because like these are the people that I've come up with. And now I'm here in this space. Is this your best friend?

Yeah, best friend Wallet. Wally, you were at the house? Yeah, yeah. I was like, it was like one of my girls' birthdays. I was like, let's go Dior, man. What do you want? Because it's like, now you guys, when I was like, when we were, like, you guys grew with me.

So it's like I have like anything. you ever need from me. Wow. I got you. So, and then obviously my family as well, just had to take care of them first. Yeah. So it's always just being out way.

Yeah. And then blowing a lot of cash on presents and birthday gifts and stuff like this. Which I love. Can we get into you in India? Mm. As much as you want to go. I would love to know what did you first or what did you love about her?

I feel like, I loved her like, like, feciness, like she was her own character and she was, you know, able to speak. Like, she just spoke up for whatever it is that she wanted to speak up for. And she wasn't shy about not if she didn't want to do something kind of thing. Do you know what I mean?

And I like that, like she just stood in her own ground. Yes. Yes, yes. Now, with India as well, I've noticed, and if I could just, pick up on this, is that in our conversation so far, you've been very calm and cool. But every time we touch on India is where I see nervous.

It's not even nervous. It's just like, it's a situation, obviously, you know, we're not together anymore. And it's like, yeah, we're not together anymore. It's like just, it's an uncomfortable situation because obviously I've never been in this like, type of situation before. And now I have been. And it's just the whole like, if you want to get into, just to get into, it's like, you know,

we were in a good place, like we were good, we were still together. And, you know, there's a lot of boundaries in place that mostly were set by her. And obviously- Which were what? What were somebody's about-ers? Just like, in terms of like me, female friendships,

you know, like anything around girls or just like, you know, coming back home lead and just making sure you call in. Or you know, just all these like things that like just set by her like things we do we'd say we do together first and if you're gonna do with someone else you you'd you'd say it or you'd ask or whatever but they'd all be be did all be by her but then majority of them would be broken by her you know and then I feel like in this situation as well that's happened it was kind

of shocking obviously so you were together for for four years almost four years like almost four years yeah okay so over the four years or over the three years and change that you and India were together you had moved in together All right, so you're living together. Were you already talking, you were committed to each other? Yeah, yeah, committed to each other for so long. We did so many anniversaries, so many holidays, each other's, we did everything together, you know?

Were you talking about marriage? Yeah, we talked about marriage. It's a thing like in our household, like, we both know our cultural differences and the cultural, like, humor that we can kind of share beside each other. Obviously, she's Jamaican, I'm Nigerian, and you know what they say about Nigerians, 4-1-9, they all cheat. Like, we made these type of jokes. And I remember one time I went on the radio show,

and I made the joke about like, oh, like, we can skip the ring. You know what I mean? Because we can have babies because obviously like, you know, blah, blah, which I get, like, it's a sensitive joke outside of like, you know, our household and the things that we're comfortable with. Right. You know, I apologize for that. But it's just like, it's just like dark humor.

And, you know, a lot of the things that I do end up saying online to get me in trouble is from a place of like just humor and jokes. And, you know. But I see, though, that what his. What could have happened is that you take all of those, it then underscores that villain narrative. Yeah, and it all just keeps on, like, you know, bringing this whole villain narrative.

And I feel like that's what it's been pitted against me for, you know, this situation that's happened. Because there's a difference between, like, you know, the reality of how people are and then the image, right? And I feel like my, the reality of me is I'm carefree. I share everything. I want to be open with the world. if you're a fan of me or you like me, I want to give you me.

Do you know what I mean? There's no reason for me to, like, hide. But then I guess on the other side, on her side, because she would go out and she'd have as much fun as I'm having, but she might, she just won't post it. And maybe the ones that she's posting is like she's just watching TV in the living room. So it's always like she's always at home, but I'm always outside. Right.

So you feel as if people were already accusing you, they not feel, you, you saw it. People, they've been accusing me. O's that. Cheating. I'm gay. They attack my masculinity just from how I dress, from like me being expressive with like, you know, my fashion. I can get my nose done. I can put on makeup. Just like all these little things they were used to like, you know, paint this picture of me as a person that isn't even me, but at the end of the day, it's like I don't care about being expressive. I want to be this way. I want to live my true. I want to be myself. Do you know what I mean? And I feel like all these things have been, you know,

used now against me, especially in this situation. And it's a thing where it's like, it's unfair, but at the same time, it's like, it's the aim of the game that I got into. Do you know what I mean? So I get it, but it's unfair. No, it's entirely unfair. And I want to unpack all of those because I think it's important for us to get your opinion on each of those.

But something that you also mentioned that we have to talk about is you talked about, there's a cultural difference between you and India, right? So you are Nigerian heritage, India, Jamaican heritage. How did you, how did that cultural difference show up for good or bad in your relationship? I feel like more or less, I feel like we come from different types of like households where my are so traditional. It's full of like, you know, you have to greet. It's very respectful.

And I guess like in her household, like lovely people, but they're not. then I would sense the difference in like, I don't know how to say it like without, because I'm not trying to sound rude or anything like that, but there is a definite difference and how she speaks to her mom is not how I speak to my mom. Do you know what I mean?

I'd have to put Auntie in front of her mom's name, do I mean, stuff like this, like different things. But she'd obviously do it as well because I would teach her the difference in the culture, whereas I feel like mine's very traditional, but then hairs is a bit more free. Right. Do you know what I mean?

So I tell you what, I mean, so being from, being Jamaican. What I've noticed as a big difference. So it was interesting, most of my best friends growing up were either Jamaican or Nigerian, right? And at the end of the day,

all Jamaicans are basically from Nigeria anyway. I try to say that one time, bro. I try to say that one time. They're like, no, I'm not. If you trace it back. Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Ghana or Nigeria, man. I'm trying to say that.

It's pretty much. Yeah, we are all family. All family. And that's something that I think we also need to remember is that we are all family. And what society tries to do is divide, not only us, but divide everybody. That's how you disempower people.

But one thing I noticed is distinctly is that I feel like most Nigerian households that I know of are very patrophocal, right? Most of the family revolves around the male patriarch, right? So the father figure, making the primary decisions, et cetera. In every Jamaican household that I've been close to, including mine, it's matrophocal. Yeah, that's what. And revolves around the mother.

The mother, yes, yes, yes, my grandma was, like, she was it. I actually get that. I actually agree with you. She was it. And so when I've seen Nigerian and Jamaican marriages, I've seen that that sometimes is a friction point, right? Did that show up at all? Is that what you're getting to as well or not necessarily?

I don't feel like it showed up, but I do feel like there's in some cases where it felt like, you know, I mean, maybe I felt like an outsider, you know? With her family. Yeah, with her family's like, yeah, I fit in and I accept, but then I feel like there is a certain level of, you know, things they probably think of me

because of, you know, the power socials are putting online as well. And it just became like, maybe I'm not, you know, the same as you guys or something. And I felt like that sometimes. And I feel like it kind of starts showing up, like, towards the end. You know what I mean? I feel like it starts showing up there because I just didn't feel comfortable anymore.

So you think it was more so what was being said about you? Yeah, what was being said about me and just how it felt like I was now being treated. And it's just a bit, it's just different. And I guess maybe it's like, it's again, it's the jokes. It's the stuff that, you know, the internet, you know, are putting against me. I think I remember I wore like an outfit

to the mobors or something and I did my hair back and I had like earrings and then, you know, the internet wanted to diss me about whatever fashion is that I did. I thought I ate. I still think I ate. It doesn't even affect me. But, you know, things like that,

if the internet's saying something bad, then I feel like they'd start believing what the internet's saying. Her and her family. Not her. I feel like she'd understand me because maybe her family's just like, oh, maybe, because you know,

maybe I'm zesty or maybe I'm actually, You know what I mean? All these little things, and it's like I could gauge this and I could see it. And it's like, you know? Right. So you feel like, and not to put words in because, but I don't know if you felt this way, you feel like maybe her family didn't feel as if you were masculine. Yeah.

I think so simple as that. Probably. I think, yeah, maybe eventually. I think he probably came to a point where it was like that. So then, Damme, help me understand what happened because just, so. So everyone, if you're comfortable with me saying what happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the whole world knows.

Yeah, yeah, this is true. This is true. So for the five people who don't know, I want to give just a little bit of the detail, is that so in July 2025, you and India had celebrated your three-year anniversary. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you're three years into your anniversary. Then December 3rd, 2025, India was spotted kissing Inside UK star Marlon Garcia. And this was at the series 3 rap party for Inside, which is a Netflix reality competition show by the sideman.

So this happens on December 3rd. When did you find out? I probably found out probably on December 5th. And it was just because of the, just a chain of events of things just didn't make sense. And I'm too clued in not to, you know, figure stuff out, especially because I've been with you for so long. And I think eventually she obviously came forward and, you know, said this is, this is, this had been what happened. And for me, I had to process it. And I'm like, you know, I'm processing it privately.

Like, no one knows this is happening. So it was a thing for me, like, it was just like a situation of like, stories just wasn't adding up. And just to keep it short, it just wasn't adding up, and then eventually she came forward to tell me. And then we just had to like, obviously I said, I can't be in this relationship. But at the same time, I know, you know, we have this public relationship. I think it became to a point where it's like there's times where it was like she'd be on snap or something and she'd like say something about her. She'd like, like her mental health right now is, you know, in a bad place.

And I would be trying to process this. But in my way, I needed to get out of the space that we lived there, because we started to live together. Oh, that's right. You still living together. Yeah, we still lived. All right. All right.

This is complicated. Yeah, it's very complicated. But you said already before you were clued in that things didn't feel right in, what, in December. No, things didn't feel right in the sense of that night that she went out and when she came back. It was like, you have this thing of like, oh, if you go out, you just text and you say, oh, what you're doing, but gone now for the the whole night, not said anything. And it's like, that doesn't make sense, because you would.

I was with you in the morning. You know what I mean? We literally came back with you in the morning. So it's like, we've helped you pit your outfit on. We've helped on all this stuff. So they've gone out and then come back. Your story don't make sense when I'm asking, like, where you mean? Like.

So you were at home? Yeah. And then what time did she come back? Probably like, I don't even know, because I had to work that day, so I had to even leave the house. So I'm not actually sure what time she came back. sometime in the morning. No, probably like afternoon-ish or something, yeah.

Afternoon? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think she probably woke up at like 1 p.m. or something. And that was like when I got the text and, or like, or she just like crashed out and she was blah, blah, blah. So you, so she was gone. You wake up. You leave to go to work.

She's still not back home. So at this point, you feel, all right, something's up. It's not even like, it's not even like a straight way thing or something. happened. It's more of like, yeah, things happen. I mean, you can go out, get drunk and, you know, I mean, you just crash out. You know what I mean? I understand that. Like, I understand how to have fun. So it's okay. I get that. All right. So can I play devil's advocate? Because I think you might be giving yourself a little bit too much grace on this one. All right. So, I mean, I've been married for 20 something. Yeah, yeah. But if I'm three to four years into a committed relationship where I live with someone, we have established boundaries. Yes, yes. And my partner goes out and she doesn't come home. And the next morning, I mean, I'm not even waiting to the next morning. I didn't wait until the next morning. Don't get me, miscalion.

I was even up like saying everything good because I'm checking for your well-being and seeing how you are. You know what I mean? So I've texted. It's not like I've just gone to sleep and forgot like, oh, my whole girlfriend exists. I'm still looking out for her well-being just trying to check where she's at, if she's good. Do you know what I mean? But again, no response, getting none of this. So it's like then the first response is that I won't p.m.

the next day, I'm like, you know, hmm, whatever. But just to like, you know, to move on from that, it's just like when everything happened, it's like, I remember it was her birthday, her birthday as well. And when she put up the whole mental health thing on Snap, I remember people on Snap because I'm trying to process this. People are hitting me up saying, how are you out when your girlfriend is at home, you know, process?

And I'm like, bro, you don't even know what I'm going through here. I'm just, I'm keeping everything cool. There's no sense of hate for me for her. At the end of the day, like, you're someone I've been with for so long that, like, I'm still able to be in this capacity with you. But I do need to, like, have some level of self-respect to, like, for myself as well to be like, you know what? This isn't what I want anymore. I can't, like, be here or do this because at the end of the day, it's just like I'm, like, I'm an honest person. Right.

And I always want just people to always be honest, you know what I mean? And I feel like when trust has been broken like that and in such a silly kind of thing, kind of weight. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you feel, you feel all these type of, like, emotions, but at the same time, it's like, you know, you've got to, you just got to exhale for a second because it's like how, you know, you're asking you. So how could you, how could you do all these things, blah, blah, blah. And what are the emotions that? Like, the emotions I felt, I felt like, why would you do that? Like, why would you disrespect me and us like that? Do you know what? Like, for what? For like a short time that you had on a, on a show? Like,

Do you know what I mean? Because the show wasn't about love. It wasn't even any of that. So it's like, and you know what I mean? It's like it's okay for you go out and make friends. Be friends with the opposite sex or stuff like. But it's like there's boundaries in place. This isn't even a boundary cross.

This is just like straight. You don't do this if you're in a relationship. Do you know what I mean? And it's like I know now there's like people as well that's like around on the table when this is happening. So it's like there's people that know you and I are together and you've done this as well. Do you know what I mean? So it's like I'm processing a lot of stuff. But it's like I'm trying to keep us.

away from the embarrassment of it online and everything as well. Right, because that's a whole other. It's a whole another thing that you've got to deal with. And for the most part, like, I continue to play my part. Like, you know, on her birthday, it's like I start to show up because the internet doesn't know. But you two had broken up already. Yeah.

And people might say, oh, it's just the case and all that. But then I don't actually know what the full of the story is because, like, there's certain elements that are part of the story that's like, it confuses me. It's like, how can this happen? And do you know what I mean? I don't want to go to because it's like, it's like I don't want to actually like spread too much like info about it or whatever. But I feel like when I posted my New Year's dump, I feel like that was a thing for me where it was like I'm starting this year fresh now. I need to need to choose myself.

And just to clarify for the five people who don't know is that you did your New Year's dump basically of here's a reflection of my year. and you posted a full carousel and in it you don't include any photos, any imagery of India. And so people see that and then it goes to another level. And it goes into another level and they make up their new stories

and whatever it is and that's how I feel like then everything happened. And I remember, you know, at this point, things are like moving fast now. And then now this sudden story, apparently now we're finding out there's someone that was there

and there's like a recording of it. I have to listen to everybody's phone ping at the same time. There's like all of my friends, all on their phones, and we're all getting this video comes up TikTok the same time. And I have to look at everyone and myself, watch this video

and then look at all my friends, watch the same video, and everyone's in shop. Because there's one thing of like, okay, yeah, you've heard it, but then seeing it is a bit like, and it doesn't, then it feels even way more

than, you know, how it was expressed to me. And it's like, then I'm dealing with all this stuff and, you know. And just for the, Just to, if I can. Yeah, go for it. So this is January 10th. Mm-hmm.

The video surfaces online where you see India kissing someone else. Yeah. Okay. Litch. And I guess from that point, it was just like, yeah, now, this is so, it's embarrassing. And then it's just, it's just disrespectful. Because, like, we've been, like, I don't know, I just feel like it just wasn't worth whatever we had to do that.

But at the same time, it's like, I just had to remove myself from that situation. and like, but at the same time, it still wasn't enough for the internet because the internet still want to believe I had to have done something first. It's still on me, and then, you know, it's AI and it's not real. And it's like, what did Dammy do?

Or Dammy's been cheating for a time. So she's just getting her lickback. Or Dammy's, what Dammy didn't cast him more, oh, this is why he's doing it? Or Dammy's joke the other day, why wouldn't she do it? Or how Dammy dresses. Oh, that's why she's done it.

And people are like, oh, my God, I'm so, like, she should cheat on him again. Do you know what I mean? All these things I'm seeing online, It's like, you can hate me, you can do, say all these things, but like, you, like, I stand for women, protecting women, but it comes to a point where it's like, what have actually done to you guys? I ain't done anything.

And now it's like, I've been dealing with it privately. I've not spoken about. I never want to speak about. It's calm. But now publicly I have to deal with it. And the whole embarrassment of it publicly and people, you know, making mockery of it and, you know, joking about the board of us. And we're having to go through this whole turmoil of like, what was such a beautiful relationship.

And, you know, to now this is how. it ends, it's a bit like, it's a bit, it's a bit, it's a bit, it's a bit sad. Why didn't you say anything? Because at the same time, I generally still have like a care for her and it's like, like, I've loved her, I've been with her for so long, there's a, there's a level of care that I'll always have. And at the end of the day, it's like, I'm not trying to bash on her or try to, I don't want anything to happen to, like, who she is or whatever it is.

Like, I want her to still be good. Do you know what I mean? So for me, it's like, I don't really need to say that. I don't have to explain myself to the internet, but it's like, but for me, when I'm seeing people just always trying to twist things and you're now further trying to make me this villain

or I must have done some, it's just like, you know what? It's kind of grinding on the teeth. Like, it's like, if you don't know something, and if I don't speak, if you don't speak about it, they have time to then form their own ideas as to why everything has happened.

And it's just, it's just a lot of, just a lot of noise. All right. So for everyone making the noise, yeah. They will be listening to you right now. It's fine. What do you want to tell them?

You know what? Good question. Shut the fuck up. In the most polite way. You know what I mean? Let people live. Like at the end of the day, situations happen.

Like, I don't want any, like, trouble for my ex and everything as well. Like, there's none of that. It's like, we're both people like, yeah, it's happened, but we moved on. We've processed it. You know, we're civil at this point now. So it's like, I just want to be,

able to like, like if you don't know something, don't make up something. So right, fair. That's fair enough. Now you just said that you, you in India are civil now. Yeah, like, so do you talk? I don't say we talk all the time. Like obviously, you should have happy birthday, you know, all this stuff. It's like, but we're giving ourselves that window of like, you know, space to like, just heal them, process this and deal with it and just go, you know, our ways.

Okay. So, okay. And what it sounds like is, and you actually said it, is that you wish her the best? You wish her the best. Yeah. You want the best for her. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, a lot of, I think what's happening now is probably because inside UK is on, is on air right now. Do you watch it? You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton.

Welcome to your oceanfront room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

No, no, I didn't watch. It's just whatever comes up on TikToks, but I just because the whole time, you can't even scroll out all these little edits and people tagging me and stuff. So those are the only things I would see, but don't really have any reason to watch this one. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I feel like there's no reason to really watch it, so it's cool. Yeah. I appreciate you just sharing that because it was interesting. I was talking to a friend of mine who said, oh, my God, I can't believe Damme is coming in. He's never said anything about the relationship. I can't wait to hear his opinion. And I think from his perspective, he said that, you know, the community really lifted the two of you up.

Yeah. And I think that you both gave a lot of inspiration. and hope to a lot of people. And so when you two broke up, talked about parasycial relationships, is that a lot of people felt that pain. And just hearing your perspective will be helpful for many. I hope so.

Yeah, yeah. No, I think it will. I think it will. So now here's a question that will test how healed you are. Okay, it won't hit me. I feel like you're going to say. You know what I'm going to say.

Don't go on. All right, let me say. Have you thought about dating again? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not opposed to dating. I mean, I have to get back on the horse. You know, and saddle away.

It saddle away. You know? I don't spend too much in, like, dwelling in pain and stuff like this. I just have to put my best foot forward and keep going, man. Yes. Life's not done yet, so, you know. You got to go forward. Yeah, whoever's out there for me,

Be out there for me. Okay. So now talking about who's out there for you, can I show you something? Oh, you got someone for me? Can I show you something? Wait, what? Can I show you this?

All right, I want you to tell me. Okay, you're ready? Yeah, yeah. Okay, you ready for this? All right, I want you to tell me who is this. Oh. What you do, bro? That's just, no, that's just my bestie, bro.

That's my bestie, that's my bestie, man, like my older sister. All right. Yeah. I put it on a date, yeah. I was just, I was just Josh, and I was throwing. See, this is, See what you do?

You do this. Because people being putting us together and banding us together for so long and saying that we've been having a secret relationship and a fair book. Really and truly, that's just being my bestie. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I have a whole lot of friends in the industry. And it's like anytime I'm with women that are very beautiful and pretty, they want to pin it that, oh, no, they're definitely doing something.

They have to be doing something. But now she's just like my older sister. Like, she's actually my bestie. Like, I think we went to the Brits and they were like, They made a whole thing with me and Dami with this, you know, Influencer, Influenza girl. Mind you, that's big Uche, Tori, bro. She ain't know small somebody.

Right. So it's like, yeah, but yeah, that's just, man. You tried it, though. You tried it. So you're funny like that, huh? But you know what I do like is, is I had a proper stalk of, of your IG in particular. And what I can see is that you have a lot of relationships with men and women, platonic. And I think.

that you're showcasing that, you know, you could be a man, have a relationship with a woman, and it be friends. It's friends, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That in itself, I think, is a myth that we can't be friends with girls. Yeah, I feel like people actually just think that.

And I feel like, even in like, forever getting in a relationship, I'm not a person that wouldn't want my person to not have male friends and, you know, female friends. You know what I mean? I love when you can be friends with the opposite sex and they not have to be sexual or weird. You get what I'm saying?

And I feel like I have a lot of that and I've been having a lot of that, but obviously parisocially, they would love to assume that, you know, when you're in a relationship, you can't have those things. Do you know what I mean? And if I'm out by myself with, you know, my friend,

it's like, that's weird. Why are you on a date with your friend by yourself when you have a girlfriend at home? But it's like, bro, it's okay to just chill with your friends by themselves alone. Do you know what I mean? And then sometimes I have to tink in my head when I was in relationship,

it's like, if I'd go out with my friend and I'll snap it, I'll put it on so it's like I'm not hiding anything, do you know what I mean? Because there could be someone behind me or someone over there sneakly recording me and trying to make a whole situation, oh, that means, do you know what I mean? But I live my life so loud that I want you to actually know who I am, how I am, and just understand that like, you know what I mean? Free will.

Free will, free will. Hey there, we have conversations just like this one every week. So if you haven't already, hit follow and the bell icon. and I'll see you for the next one. If you think about that time, that period of the late 1990s, early 2000s in Ireland, what do you believe was the lowest moment for you? I don't know how this period started,

but like, you know, men, boys, they always take the piss and there was one day in class. I think one of the guys that, like, I was getting ganged up on, like, you know, everybody was, like, dropping jokes on me and they were making, like, small, like, passable racist remarks that, like, even the teacher was still writing on the board.

And you can hear all this stuff that's going on, but you're not turning around, you're not doing anything. And everyone's making all these, like, black jokes. You know what I mean? All these, like, your dad's disappeared, even though my dad's still in my life. All these, like, compare me to chocolate bars and all these, you know, all these just like quick, quick snickering insults.

And every time I make a joke, because, you know, I'm the only black person here now, and it's a class full of maybe 14, 15 white boys. So it's silence. And we're in a SPHE class, which is all about social and all this stuff. And it's like, this is the type of class where you should actually be saying these things aren't actually allowed, but nothing's actually happening. And I must have said, like, I think then I must have hit this guy with a joke that, like, everybody just turned around and they were like, what? How could you say that?

This, then, the other. I was like, I have not said anything like as bad as wherever you guys have said, right? But I was apologetic for my joke. I come out now and I think this is where everything changed. This is the moment where everything changed now. Interesting. Because it was like, it was a way where it's like I come out now. Everybody's angry with me and my joke, even though everybody's being laughing.

Even the teacher now finally turned around. Do you know what I mean? Oh, to say that what you said was unacceptable. Damn me, get out. And I said, what? So I'm outside now taking a little breeder. I may be settling into myself that like, oh, maybe what I actually said was too far. cool I'm here and now like everybody's like angry and they come out there saying they want to fight me

I didn't want to fight anyone I said like it doesn't actually have to go to this and I remember I remember we're inside this like a secondary PE room yes and like no one's there it's all like closed off it's like shower shower room or whatever right and I remember I was like everyone just formed around and I was like oh like you know still trying to plead my way out of this because it's like I actually don't want to fight you know what I mean but I said I didn't don't want to hit you either though, because if it's a thing where it's like, okay, I deserve these hits because of what I said, I'll take it. Wow. And then guy kept hitting me, kept punching me, but I was still standing and he was getting more upset because I wasn't

punching back. And he was saying, I need to fight back. But I just kept letting it hit me. And I feel like it wasn't enough, though, because I've taken the hits now and everyone's gone home, but then the next day, because I didn't fight back, it now needs to turn into a whole fiasco of like, we need to go again. Wow. And I'm like, I'm like, like brother, like, we've already like squash this. Like, do you know what I mean? This should be enough now for us to like, you know, carry on, like whatever way it is that we're going to carry on, just carry on. But at this point now, I've already said no, but if you're going to do it again, I'm going to punch you back.

Because I've taken my hits. And at this point, I'm ready, like, I'm readying myself now because it's like I can't let people think that I'm someone that you're going to keep like doing this to. I've given you the first one. So the next one, obviously I've beaten them up. It's very quick, very fast, but then now they're angry with it because now I've beaten them up. So then it becomes a whole thing of like different people from different points of the school. People that are even expelled, they're not even in the school. Like everybody now wants a piece of me.

To do I mean, everybody now wants a piece of this black guy that doesn't seem to fall down when you hit him. And I remember some guy went on Facebook at the time. And obviously on Facebook, everybody can see what everyone's saying. And he was like, oh, this chocolate bar is going to get it tomorrow or this kickout, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And I'm seeing over like, what, 200 likes. And these are all from, it's from the school. And at this point, I'm not telling my parents about this.

Like, there's no one I can really, like, go to my siblings or young. It's just me. And you do go to the teachers. The thing is, no one can snitch. You're not, it's a, it's like, you can't, you just can't tell. You can't, like, snitch at this. You know what I mean? just became a whole like uproar.

Like all the other schools now are hearing about this. Even my old school, all my other friends like that I don't, I'm not with anymore. They're all hearing about this, the girl school. It's like I didn't come to this school to fight, do you know what I mean? But it's like, it gets to a point. And I remember the last fight that I ever actually ever had

had to have was with this kid that was expelled. And I remember my, the vice president, the vice principal at the school, he brought me into his office because I feel like the older years, they met me outside. And they've obviously been hearing about, you know, all these fights and they felt sorry for me. He was like, damn he, like, I'm hearing all this stuff that's happening. And honestly, this is what he said.

He said, honestly, if you're going to fight, just don't do it in your uniform. And I said, I said, but the only thing is I knew he hated the guy that was expelled. You basically got the approval of the only kind of body of authority. Yes. To say you could do it. Yes. And it's like when obviously they told him, they probably thought he was going to say, say, okay, you know, speak to me and maybe try and find a way from me to leave school

quietly where I don't actually have to be outside, blah, blah, blah. I must have been walking out and it was the school bell rang, and we're all walking down and it's like it was a whole swarm of people, like even parents, like school buses were not going to move. Like everybody, like, stood still just to come and see what was happening. It was like over, I'd say like 400, like 500 people just coming to, you, it's to watch you fight. To watch, yeah, because the thing is, I was making so much new.

about everybody that I was beating up and obviously now everybody now wanted to see this person that everyone keeps talking about right and it's become this whole spectacle of like oh why doesn't he like why does it why is no one able to beat him up why is he just this the other and obviously the guy the guy that was expelled he's really popular like he's a bad boy like he's really popular whatever

this down the other and I'm popular too at this point so it's like now everybody's here to come and see this And they've obviously seen the racist stuff that he's put online to come and like, you know, do all these things. And I remember walking, you know, past the school buses, like through the lanes. And before I know it, I'm in the middle of this big circle that I, like, I didn't even, like, I was just walking. And then suddenly I'm wrapped around everybody. And someone's taking my bag now. I've given my bag.

I think I've seen my bag just being flicked somewhere. You know what I mean? Just put somewhere wherever it is. And before I know it, not. even a time for conversation. It's like, bro's just stepped towards me. And he's like, oh, so you ready, yeah? You ready, call?

I don't know if you call me chocolate bar again or whatever. He's like, but you know, you're ready, yeah? And again, I plead like, look, bro, we don't actually have to do this. Do you know what I mean? Because that's the one thing I always say to people. We actually don't have to fight. There has to be something else before we actually have to get physical that maybe we can just leave it as.

But if you hit me, we got to, we got to, I've made it about to myself. From now, if you hit me, then we actually got to go. And I remember he's come up now and he's punching me, he's punching me, he's punching me. And the punches are severe. Like in every other fight that I felt, I could feel these ones like so intensely, so painfully. I, it's thinking in my head, today's going to be the day that maybe, you know, I actually fall. And I'm trying to find, like, all the pieces of clues of like, what am I supposed to do? as I'm like trying to like weave and trying to punch back

and try to whatever, but I'm still getting hit. And it's like nothing I'm doing in this instance is actually working, you know? And I remember, I remember like just had a flashback earlier on the day of my MMA friend talking about, bro, you have such long reach. Just like step back and then, you know, and I just remember him saying it to me

and somehow I don't know, I don't know if got into my body or something happened. It was a way where it's like I step back, weave, you know, and then fell down. lights out. And in that moment, it was like, it was a sense of like, this was the last battle that I'd ever have to do. Like, nobody would touch me now. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And from then, it's like, I created this like safe, harmonic, like space in this town for my siblings and everybody else because now nobody would be racist to them. Nobody would touch them. And it's

a thing where it's like, like I'm almost like a hero now. But, all right, this is an amazing story. Sorry, I've been going off. I've been going off on a tangent. I'm so sorry. No, no. That's not a, that's not a tangent because that was this seminal event in your childhood that not only reshaped how people viewed you, but how you viewed yourself. And then also how people related to your siblings. Yeah. Right. So you could see how that moment changed you. My question, though, is how do you believe it changed you? So who were you before kind of like those series of fights? And then who did you become?

I was someone that was scared of being alone, wanted to, like, you know, fit in and, you know, try to appease to people, you know, just to do that. But then through the series of fights, I stopped being scared with being alone. It's like me being myself was enough. And if nobody else vouch for me, if nobody else fought for me, I'd fight for myself. And, you know, that's just it. But again, it's okay. Yeah. But is it okay?

Right? I mean, because I see you saying, this is what people keep saying, and it's okay. But after you hear something enough, it has to impact you. It has to affect you. Hmm. I feel like I've been hearing it for so long. It doesn't really, like, affect me anymore, though. I feel like there would have been a certain point

where it's like you start looking inwards and start questioning, so you're like, oh, is what I'm doing not cool enough? Do I have to be cooler? Do I have to appear a bit more masculine now? Do I have to, like, you know, do certain things? But I feel like what really changed me and to make me not, like, care anymore,

don't even want to go into, you know, sensitivity of it is when my dad died. That's when I feel like everything anyone could say about me, everything anyone could do. to me, it just didn't matter anymore, you know. It's like the pinnacle of my life and all the stuff that, you know, I've done and my guidance counselor is now gone. So it's like the words of everybody else's stuff, it just doesn't really, it doesn't hurt

anymore, you know? So it's like... Can we talk about your father, can talk about him? You can talk about him. You know, it gives me... It gives me chills when you said that because I could see how he was everything to you. Everything. And he recently passed away as a 2024.

Yeah. And can you recall the last conversation you had with him? Yeah. I feel like it's kind of strange because you know, like, you know dads and, you know, sons, like, the last conversation had him was like the longest face time we've ever. had and I think I had I was modeling for something and it was like taking my friend with me you know when you call your friend on FaceTime you're driving your car and you're like you're just talking about your day and he's expressing himself as well and he's giving out he's giving out

about my sisters and stuff like this and I'm just speaking to him and he's like he doesn't even want to get off the phone like we're just like we're joshing it and it's like I feel like in a period where you where I grew up with my dad it's like it wasn't always so smooth you know my dad kind of like there was a thing about like when I was younger you know when I'll be disciplined or whatever, or he'd be angry, he'd always do this thing before. And I used to not like him. I used to not like him,

and he'd always do this thing where it'd be like, like, he'd hit me or whatever because I've done something or maybe he's just angry or something that's not working out for him. And then he would come back home and then he would like, hey son,

you know what I mean? Not speaking about the situation that has happened. And I remember, like, I feel like for a long time in my life, it's like I learned to forgive people even when they don't say sorry. And I feel like I kind of hold on to that, even like that's, I feel like I'm just a forgiving person. I just, I don't care enough

to like have hate or have, you know, make people like, oh, a villain in my head and I have to like push them. Do you know what I mean? I feel like there's more to life than, you know what I mean? Like, I think my heart is very bright, you know what I mean? There's no way you can go in there and it's dark, you know what I mean? So I feel like, I feel like I'm, I feel like I carried on into probably, you know, certain aspects of, you know, my relationship and whatever it is. But yeah, the last conversation my dad just, it was that. And I remember the next, like, I was at the mobos and I was thinking I was presenting for a while and I was presenting at the mobos at that time, 2024. And literally the next day, I presume like, I think my dad, he must

have had a stroke and he was in the hospital. Like, he checked himself to the hospital and suddenly now we're with him in the hospital and this thing that just seems like, oh, it's not serious, just keeps getting more and more serious. And it hurts me the most, because the night when, like, he passed, like, it was my little sister's, it was my little sister's birthday because her birthday was on the 24th of February. And it felt like we had her birthday, we did it in the hospital, had, like, you know, a cake or whatever. And literally before, like, my parents went back home, they were thinking, oh, we're going to see him, they're going to see him tomorrow.

But I stayed back, I think, with my sister and something else. I can't remember which other sibling was with me. But I remember, like, I stayed back and then when it's, when it stuck, the clock struck like maybe 1145, yeah, all the rooms start beeping and everything started beeping. But I remember, I went to him before that and I was just speaking to him. And obviously, he's not able to, like, respond to me now. He's just like, he's in a bad place that I've never, I've never seen my dad like this before. And it's kind of like horrifying because, like, this person that was like literally speaking to the other day. And we were like, joshing up.

And I didn't know that was going to be the last conversation that we'd be able to have where he'd speak to me. And we had that. But then it's like, here, I'm trying to speak to him, trying to pray, I'm trying to pray life back into him. I'm trying to, like, plead with God. And just say, please. You know what?

And I'll tell you what. You know, when you just plead. Yeah. I've never had my heart broken before. I've never had my heart broken before. but when when life went out of him my heart shattered and everything this is you know I you know that's my greatest fear that's my greatest fear and and you've gone through it and that's why I have so much respect for everybody who's been able to to to walk that path and

especially you as the older brother because you have you have I would imagine, did you feel like you had, now you have a sense of responsibility? I'm the man of the house now. Just like that. Just like that. It's like whatever passage he had just went into me now. It's like, I have to do all these things.

And it's like, but I didn't want you to finish doing all these things. I still wanted to have someone to look up to. I still want to have some I can, you know, take care of and give back to you. I mean, like I didn't feel like I was complete with all that. Like, I still had more to give you. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, now you're gone.

And I just remember my mom, everybody, they came rushing back. And it was like, I was still the last person to have the last moment with him as well. And this has happened. And everything is just like, from then I feel like the sense of responsibility to share, like, the way I used to be where I used to like shop so much. I used to like buy gifts. I used to, everything just like, it clicked to my mind that like I have to lock in now. This is like, like I got to just make sure my mom, myself. are good, like all of them, you need to work in, like, everyone has that, but it's like,

Dad's gone now, you know, and it was so, like, rapid that there was no real, like, time, because at least some people get time. Like, you get told, oh, you got six months, you got one year, so you can plan stuff. There was no planning. It's just abrupt, and it's just gone. You know what I mean? And just just this is it. And then it's like, I had to take the reins and literally I feel like, you know,

And for the first, like for so long, I didn't want to go red carpets. I didn't want to, like, I don't want to do anything. It's like, yeah, that's why I feel like what I said. It doesn't affect me anymore. It's like, yeah, okay, what now? Do you know what I mean? The hardest thing that could have happened to me in life has happened. Like, you think you have so much time to your parents and then suddenly one of them go.

Because I've met friends and I've had people like, you know, they lose someone that's important to them. And it's like, damn, I would never want that to be me. And then it's you and you have no control over it. like, it's a whole bubble of like, I'm still grieving. Like, I don't even know when I was stopped grieving. Like, you know, like, I'm talking about my dad today. I don't want to cry about that. You feel like the pain that I feel like I've already processed is still there.

Like, I feel like, oh, maybe I'm done, but suddenly now I'm here with you and I'm crying about it. It's like, it's a hard one. But at the end of the day, it's like everything I try to do now is just to like, I try to just keep doing things to make him proud or, you know, keep doing things to like, you know, amplify his life through me and all the things that he's done for us to be here, I'm just going to have to keep doing it. So like, it reaches the heavens. I'm like, yo, your son's doing pretty good down, you know what I mean?

Yeah, look at that. Look at that. Well, you know what, from everything that I know, and I did a whole lot of research before you got here, is I believe he was, continues to be incredibly proud of you. incredibly proud of the man that you've become and in and how you show up for others. I think that's so important. And I love this through line of loyalty and confidence. You have this very quiet confidence about you that I think that that you want to continue,

you know, to exhibit. Can I give you another surprise? Go on hit me. You ready for this? I'm scared now after this last one. So I don't even know if I want to see this sort of. All right, are you willing to close your eyes on this one? All right, I close my eyes.

Just don't kiss me, though. All right, all right. Thank you for the trust. All right. Now, open it up. Bro, I hope this is like a 100K check. It's better. It's better?

It's better than 100K check. It's better than 100K check. You all hearing this? It's better than 100K check. I want you, if you are willing to read that letter out loud, please. Okay. To my brother, from the day I met you, I knew you were different. You had the strength about you, but what stayed with me was your heart.

The way you care for people, the way you show up even when you've got your own battles. When your dad passed, I watched everything change. The whole family was shattered. There was pain everywhere and much heartbreak. And in the middle of that, you didn't fall apart. You carried everyone. I'll never forget watching you stand there and read theology. I don't know how you did it.

He spoke with strength, with love, like you were holding the whole family together with your words. And in that moment, I remember thinking, he's not just grieving, he's stepping up. You became the one everyone leaned on. But what really stayed with me is what people didn't see. You never let yourself break in front of everyone else. You held it in. You stayed strong for them. And I know you were going somewhere quiet to deal with that pain on your own.

That's the part that gets me. Because that's not just strength, that's sacrifice. You didn't just lose your dad. You gave up your space to grieve properly so your family wouldn't fall apart. And somehow, you still kept your promises. You still became the man he raised you to be. I've always respected you.

But after that, I look at you differently. You're not just strong. You're the reason people around you don't break. I love you, bro. And I'm proud of you in a way I'll probably never be able to fully explain. Your brother, you're a friend. Real.

You know who wrote that? This is my brother? My little bird? Who? My best friend? This is interesting. You know what I love is that there's so many people in your life who fit over and written that letter. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

My best friend, Wally. There you go. Who's that right there? That's Wally, man. That's my life partner, bro. But we just ain't gay. You know what I'm saying? That's my life partner right there for you.

You know how I know it is, is that you've mentioned him many times in our conversation already. Yeah. He's been with you at these inflection points in your life. And what's interesting to me, and I think this is a showcase of great friends, is that every time there was an inflection point, your relationship became even stronger. Not real. Very real.

Shout out Wally, though. Shout, my boy. Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you what, I will hold on to that, but I'll give that to you. Damn, Brunner, you got me crying again on, throw? What are you doing? You know, what I love is that I love to have a conversation where we touch on every emotion.

We've laughed. You almost have me in tears in here. And I think that's a reflection of healthy masculinity. Gru. And I love to get your perception on how has that term, masculine. changed for you over the years? I feel like the term masculine for me

is the freedom in owning or masculinity, even if it might be flamboyant sometimes or it might be a little sassy. It's like men have attitude too. And it's like being able to express that in a way that you're confident with and comfortable, you know, and I feel like over the years, it's touched me in ways in how I dress, how I speak,

You know, I'm part of the squirrels, you know, all these little things that like, you know, people might deem is zesty, sassy, all these stuff. It's like, I'm still a very masculine man. I guess you're done. I pay the bills. I do the stuff that I need to do. But at the same time, my personality is going to shine true. And even if my masculinity might seem shaky to you, it's not because it's still masculine. Like every fiber, every part of me, however way you may deem it, is still very masculine.

You know what I mean? It doesn't take away from, you know, it doesn't take away from my masculinity. Yeah. You know, so a lot of people ask me how do I define masculinity? Yeah. Because it's, I think for a lot of people it's hard, especially nowadays. And to me, what masculinity is is it is strength that's not rigid. Yeah, yeah.

You know, responsibility that's still emotionally aware and emotionally connected. To me, that's you. to you. That's you. And I think when people say, yeah, this guy, damn, me hope he's not a masculine guy. I think that they are throwing back to a very toxic version of what masculinity used to be thought of, right? You are the way forward. And I think that that's why, you know, I was so excited to talk to you because I wanted to see it for real.

Yeah, right? I feel like you got a little bit of me and you too, man. I feel like we kind of wanted the same. Oh, man, I think we're very, very similar. I'm a little upset because you outdressed me today. Nah, you're looking fly too, but you got a little Rick talk about ours for you. I mean, I mean, but I see the whole situation, which means that we have to talk about fashion a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

Just a little bit. Touching. When did fashion become important to you? I feel like when I touched university and, you know, it wasn't just like, like fashion is just clothes. It was more so like how I would change my hair color, how I would like try and relax it, how I would try and, you know, get jerry curls. Are you going to a jerry curl?

Yeah, bro, I was running, I was running that stuff back in uni and he took it out of the shit. Did you really? With the activator? Bro, activate, actually, it was, it was bouncing, bro. But I remember, bro, like, back when I was at you and I feel like there was just like, there's a level of expression that was free.

You know, I'd get, I'd get eyebrow pairs in. I would like, do things that just, like, just felt expressive. And I feel like then it just tapped into like from that into clothes. Like I look at myself in the mirror and you put like sport core and, you know, smart, smart together and seeing how they like sit together. And you're like, it's kind of eats. And then it became a whole thing of like experimenting. And I feel like with science as well, there's a science to fashion too.

So it's like you got to experiment with different things and you got to like try things. And at first, they might be the worst experiments, but to you, to you feel. confident in it and you feel like good. And I feel like over the years, like when I look back on some of the stuff I was wearing, I'm just like, bro, that, that ain't really it. But now it's like, you know, I just kept going out and I kept wearing my own clothes and I started looking at everyone.

And no one else was dressing like me. And then it started making me feel like, you know, I'm special. I'm unique. Because it's like, you don't want, like, fashion is subjective, right? But it's like, when you wear something. So it's like, you're bringing your own identity. Yes. Into your clothes.

So like when people see you, the first thing's like, oh, like he looks, you could look, you could have no money your account and you dress good. You look like the richest person in the room. So it's like there is like an identity to like who you're trying to become and who you want to be that when you're wearing your clothes that like I was always trying to like be a part. Do you know what I mean? Be a part of is making me stepping into this character and this person that I actually am.

Yes. Do you know what I mean? Can we touch on something? You just says something that I tell my boys all the time because they're like because I have a I mean, Dammy, you will appreciate this. I have a room, a full bedroom that I. I've converted into my wardrobe. Then, I'll be your house.

Whoa, okay, sir. Okay, so. You know, come on, come on, come on, come on. Okay. You know, I've been on TV for a while, you know. But a full room, right? And then I've taken over the landing as well, right? And I go into my situation.

I've got everything color coordinated, everything set up, everything nicely. And my boys are like, dad, like, what are you doing? And I say, I never want to go anywhere where someone looks like I look. Real. Right? And you just, so you just said the same thing.

Why do we feel this way? Because, we're special. You want to feel like, you want to feel like, it's like everyone can dress the way they dress like, but I just don't want everyone to go somewhere and someone has the same identity as me, bro. It's like, we're standing in our own power by the way we dress. You know what I mean?

Yes, yes, yes. So you feel, because this is how I feel too. It's an expression. Yes. It's me boldly saying, is who I am. Yes. And I don't know if you feel this way too,

but I feel as if I'm also saying, take me for what you see. And if you don't like it, that's literally it. Yeah. But people always like it, though. That's the thing. That's the thing, though.

They always like it, though. They always do, though. There's always more to like it than not. They're not true. It's so true. So, like, if you know yourself, like, for me, it's like when I'm wearing clothes, I don't go out thinking,

oh, someone's going to notice me and stuff and all these things. But the people that do come up, they be like, oh, my God, bro, you dress so sick, you dress like this. And it's like being happening from even before, you know, I went on the show. So it's like, and then now it's just amplified, yeah.

Right, I mean, so this is you. This is truly authentically you. So is this how you started to get into fashion? Because you have your own fashion line. Yeah, I have my own fashion line. Okay, let's speak on it. Yeah, Snow Bunny. And I feel like, for me, even the name,

since we just touched on it since we're here and we're speaking about everything. I feel like for me, I like the name because I thought it was sexy. Okay. Yeah. And I know the name obviously has one meaning of, you know, that, but that's the derogative term that people just made up.

I think there's a couple meetings, though. Yeah, there's a lot of meaning. And there's the actual meaning of, like, a novice skier. Yes. That's the actual real meaning in the dictionary. It just means a novice skier. And I remember when I was making, I had, like, this idea to put, like, a rabbit in a balakalava.

And I was like, I like, like, this is my first, like, drawing or whatever. And I know there's controversy to it. Like, I get it, but I'm not someone that wants to be boxed in by things other people made up because at one point, someone has made it into this derogative term, right? But that's not what it means. And there's so many other meanings for it.

So why can't I have it mean something that it means to me and not allow myself to be boxed up because of what everybody else thinks? Okay. You know? Okay. And I feel like when I was making it, it was another form of expression of just doing whatever I want. And like the clothes that I'm making is like you have to introduce like obviously because we're living in the UK and you have to do like an introduction thing to it. So I start

with like, you know, track suits. We call them snowsuits. You know what I mean. So we play on all that stuff. And then I feel like this year is when I actually go into the real advancement of like what I've actually been trying to create. Because you know, you create like from time. So it's like there's always building blocks to like show people what you're doing and stuff. And I feel like it was It was a no-brainer for me not to, like, to have my own fashion brand. It was a no-brainer. It was always going to happen. Like, do you believe that is, I mean, you know, I know you're a multi-hyphen-it,

so there's a lot that you do? Yeah. But do you think that fashion is going to become more and more part of your day-to-day? Yeah, I feel so, yeah. Okay. Alongside everything else that I do want to do still, yeah. Okay. I like being busy, I guess.

Yes. There's a beauty and there's a fun to it. Just like, I like, I like hustling. I like making my work. way I like making things, you know, I like reach the milestones that I've set for myself. And like this year, it's like, I keep saying free will because I actually want to do all the things that I want to do and I don't want to hesitate on it. Do you know what I mean?

If I want to make music tomorrow, I'm going to do it. Okay. If I want to write a book, I'm going to do it. I've written a book already. So it's like all these things that I want to do, I'm just going to do. All the things that I was passionate about that we were talking about from earlier, it's now time to like hone in on that as well and use my free will to experience all these things. where there's traveling, where there's all these things, trying all these new things.

It's like, I want to allow myself to do those things, you know? Yes. So I can look back one day and I'm like, you really did use your free will, bro. Yes, your free will. I like it. You've used your free will. Yeah. All right.

So now, damn, is there anything that we have not yet talked about that you want to talk about? I feel like one thing I haven't touched on is probably, you know, my accents. I feel like that, like, I feel like people get misconstrued and they feel like, you know, I'm putting on an American accent. Okay. And obviously, I'm Irish. You know, when I see other fellow Irish people, my action just code switches into that, you know.

But I feel like for me, when I speak clearly, like, when I see like black people, Nigerian people, like go into the whole ninja accent. And, you know, they talk like this and move. It's a whole lot of code switch. And in my, when we were growing up, like, obviously my mom, she was hard of hearing. So, like, sometimes it would be like a situation where, like,

because obviously she's Yorba fluent. Obviously she speaks English. But at the same time, it's like when you're speaking so fast and you have an Irish accent, it's like she's trying to catch, she's trying to read your lips and catch them. Like, so I would have to like slow down my words and then it would sound like I'm American,

but I'm not. I'm just trying to pronounce my words clearly. You know what I mean? Like I can do the American accent and do all those things because, you know, I'll be doing that. You know what I'm saying? But it's just like I, when I speak clearly

and people misconstrued that, oh, nah, he's putting on the axe. Where is these Irish accent? I feel like people that don't know I'm from Ireland or whatever, they just firstly assume that, oh, he's trying to be American. But then there's tick Irish where you can be like, you're right there, fella, you want to go down to the Pope, do you? You know what I fuck me, you know? But like, I'm not going to come right.

I'm not coming. Like, bro, it's like, I'm going to come to the UK now. And I'm like, you're right there, fella, yo, let's go to the Pope, you know what I mean? But, like, you see, when you're growing up with the guys and you're Joshin and we all, they're speaking like that, it's natural, in it. After a while, it's just like when I break it down, I just, this, I actually think this isn't my actual voice,

even though people want to tell me it is my voice. I do feel like it is. Right. So you almost don't know what your voice is. I know I have many accents under my belt, but, you know, whoopty-do. Oh, my gosh. You know what's so wild to me about that is I feel like when people hear that term code switch, it seems like it's this negative thing, right?

But from everything, I mean, one is, if you are black, A matter of fact, I saw a study that showed that black professionals code switch 70 to 80% of the time, right? But we're doing it as an adaptive strategy. Strategy, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so we're white professionals code switch at a much lower percentage. But now that I've been in the UK for about eight years, I now can see how many people code switch into posh sounding.

Yes, yes. Especially in the professional environment. Especially in the first. Yes. Yes. I see it. Like, I can see right through you guys. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I was like, I see what you're doing. I see what you're doing. And they sound all sweet and nice. And then I try to do the plus. Because I've not been here for so long, it doesn't sound the same, you know. And then I understand. I feel like there's an outform to code switcher because sometimes it's actually

helpful to be adaptive. Because if I go to Nigeria now and I'm in the market and then I'm trying to do my accident, and it sounds like I'm from abroad. but I'm trying to haggle. You know what I mean? They're going to be trying to... So I have to be like, hey, yeah, yeah. I'll find out this one.

How much is this one? Antina, please give me for... You know what I mean? You got to get in with the program to get what you know, what you want. It is. It's adaptive. It's adaptive, yeah.

Fair. Fair enough. They're good. I'm glad we talked about that. I'm here. Anything else? I actually don't know. I actually don't know.

I feel like I touched on a lot of things, to be honest. And your questions were amazing. Thank you for allowing me to actually be here. and I guess open up, you know. You're welcome. Well, Demi Hope, can I say, you were incredible, my man. Thank you, you too, bro. I am so happy to have met you.

I'm excited about what you're going to do in the future. And what I love most is that you have remained consistently someone of high character throughout the entirety of your life. And you are someone who, not only your father is incredibly proud of, but I can see that you are your grandmother's greatest dream. Not real. She tells me I'm the favorite.

I'm the favorite. But I see, but I know. I know. So continue on. Continue on. And thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. So we say a follow back?

You got, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, definitely, definitely, definitely. Dam is a force. Loyalty, hands down. I would say is a top trait that he embodies and that he holds to a high level of value. And so you can see why when someone breaks that loyalty with him, why he's ready to walk away. Because you think they've been in a relationship for almost four years.

Many couples with therapy could work through that challenge. But he had no willingness to do it because of, I think, how much eminent. emphasis he places on loyalty. And that's his prerogative. It's hard to relinquish the memory of Damme crying over his father and how heartbreaking that moment was. And for me, that was the hardest part of this conversation because I've trained myself to try to hold space, but I was fighting against it.

I was literally fighting. I was going over. to him and that was a challenge that I had as an interviewer. It's funny, he said, I see a little of me in you and I thought I see a little of me in you, yeah. On Tawi, I was branded as the ice queen and I remember my hands were shaking. See, anxiety was overtaking my whole body at that point. I'd go asleep thinking a whole room full of cameras were watching me.

My mom, she's a complete stranger. It's almost like I just haven't got one and I see it. I can't imagine doing it. Doing that to my child, Madison, everything's perfect. Then I meet a guy absolutely took the stuffing out of me. And that's when I started to go partying. What's your best dating advice? Don't.

I just don't date. I'm joking, I'm joking. I want to go to Tawi. It completely changed my life overnight, like that. But I did start to question my career choices, like my worth in this industry. So what do you do next? The press, they were terrible.

were terrible. And they like to build you up, not too high, just to where they think he should be. And then they like to tear you down or watch you fall down. But I feel like I've sorted me and Maddie out. Like we're good. So remember how I said, what is the industry think of you? And you said ice cream.

Well, can I show you something? I have lots of surprises for you, Chloe. Oh God, I don't want to think you're going to cry.