We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - EXCLUSIVE Ashley Roberts On The Pussycat Dolls "The Schedule Was Insane"

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

Ashley Roberts shares the real story behind The Pussycat Dolls, revealing the emotional and physical toll of being in one of the world’s biggest girl groups. She opens up about the intense pressure of the music industry, her ongoing battle with anxiety, and the personal breaking point that made her walk away from dance. For the first time, Ashley reflects on the gruelling schedules, behind-the-scenes struggles, and the moment she knew she had to put her wellbeing first. She reveals: ◽️ The real reason The Pussycat Dolls broke up ◽️ How anxiety and addiction crept in behind the scenes ◽️ The moment she knew she couldn’t keep performing ◽️ Why Strictly Come Dancing was a tribute to her dad ◽️ How moving to the UK helped her rebuild her identity ◽️ Why breathwork became a daily lifeline ◽️ How she navigated the stigma around her age-gap & why she’s never been happier Ashley Roberts, We Need To Talk. This episode touches on suicide so please watch with care. We’ve included links to support charities below: Samaritans: https://g2ul0.app.link/1CRhatR7mPb  CALM: https://g2ul0.app.link/YvmzhM17mPb  MIND: https://g2ul0.app.link/d72yzu7jJOb Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Support Ashley here: Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/lAUL4dUU9Ub TikTok: https://g2ul0.app.link/qPnK1UWU9Ub Breathwork Book: https://g2ul0.app.link/XeONyN0U9Ub (00:00) Intro (02:04) Ashley's Love of Dancing (03:25) Ashley's Experience of Moving to LA at 19 (07:07) How Ashley Joined the Pussycat Dolls (09:58) How the Pussycat Dolls Became a Global Phenomenon (16:21) Paul's Favourite Pussycat Dolls Song (17:57) The 'Structure' of the Pussycat Dolls (19:28) Why the Pussycat Dolls Reunion Never Materialised (20:46) How Much Money the Pussycat Dolls Made According to Paul (22:52) The Day-to-Day of Touring with the Pussycat Dolls and Its Effect on Ashley (26:15) Paul Has a Pussycat Dolls-Related Surprise for Ashley (28:39) The Aftermath of Leaving the Pussycat Dolls (31:10) Falling Out of Love with Dancing Post-Pussycat Dolls (33:53) Ashley's Experience of 'I'm a Celeb' (36:51) Going on Strictly and Ashley's Changing Relationship with Dance (42:28) Tinder Ad (43:33) Ashley's Dad and His Mental Health Struggles (50:53) Ashley's Advice for Anyone Who's Experienced a Loss from Suicide (53:44) Ashley's History of Anxiety and Insomnia (57:53) How Did Ashley Discover Breathwork? (1:06:58) Ashley's New Book About Breathwork (1:08:06) A Message from Ashley's Mum (1:09:54) Ashley's Relationship History (1:17:03) Ashley's Current Relationship and Her Feelings Around Age-Gap Romances (1:23:18) Most Memorable Conversation (1:31:03) Paul's Takeaways Tinder: https://tinder.com/en-GB  ♥️Get The Love Journal now: https://bit.ly/lovejournal-mp SyncID - MB01JMPCXOVMDJP Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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The structure was that Nicole was the lead singer. And that was the structure. Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me? I saved $1,000 cash. When I drove to California, and I was so excited for what was ahead. It was so unknown. Neo, Rihanna, and Lady Gaga.

That supported us back in the day. We were in Egypt, performing from the pyramids. And then I'm doing a kiss concert in Los Angeles. My calculation is that you made $250 million. Do you feel like you were fairly compensated? When you work hard and then somebody else is capitalizing off of that, that's where it gets like a bit tricky. Unfortunately, legal stuff started happening

and it wasn't able to get figured out. What's the real reason of the group breaking up? A piece of my soul died when I stopped dancing. I didn't want to dance and become a job. But I got sort of whispers that we might want you to be a part of it strictly. My dad was like, I will fly to London to see your dance again. I wanted to do that for him

because he was his own worst enemy. He just couldn't take it anymore. My father passed away the same year that strictly happened. You've seen so many incredible groups come back together and perform. What about the pussycat dolls? It should be a shame not to. All right. Before we begin, I want to say from the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Why? Because we can't believe how far we've come with this podcast. But in particular, we've come this far because of you. Your support means everything, whether it's a comment, whether it's a DM, whether I get stopped in the street, which I do in our I just want to say how much we appreciate. And if you have not yet subscribed, I want you to click the subscribe button or hit that bell icon. What it allows us to do is bring you more and more of these incredible conversations. And that being said, let's get into it.

Ashley Roberts? Yes. We need to talk. We do. We're doing it. All right. We're doing it. I've talked now on we need to talk with so many talented creatives.

singers, dancers, etc. And I've noticed this common theme that their art was an escape. Do you feel like dancing comes just naturally to you? I do. I do. I just like, it is something where I feel at my bones. Like, I just, I feel I can get inside of the music.

It was just something that once I really committed to, like, learning the craft. I was like, I want to do all of it. Well, so it's interesting. So what you just said is dance was your everything. Yes. What was it the escape from? I think the emotions that were existing within the household

and caused a lot of disruption within my body. And when I go to dance, it was like I was just moving. I was releasing. I was letting go. I was letting the song take me. away. I was letting my body express and it was just such a beautiful

gift. Yes. And so you at a young age, you decided that you were going to leave and go to L.A.? Oh yeah, I knew real young. Okay. How young were you? The second I got a taste of that.

So I started kind of, you get like scholarships around maybe 11, 12 and certain dance competitions that are happened nationally within the stay that then allow you to have like a summer in Los Angeles where you get to take from all these amazing teachers from all different parts of the world and I got one of those scholarships

and when I got there I was up. And I saved $1,000 cash and I was like, get the U-Haul, packed it up and then as soon as I could and I had like that amount of money. I drove to California. How old were you? I would have gone at 18 when I graduated high school,

but I was like closer to 19 because I just needed to work a bit more to save up some cash. Okay. As you're going though, I'm curious because you're leaving family behind. Yeah. How did you feel like,

how did you feel in that moment? I was ready. I was like, get in that car. We are excited. And then my mom, bless her. I could see her like waving, having tears in her eyes. It wasn't until I got on the 101 freeway in Los Angeles that I was like, whoa, wait, what have I done?

Like, this is, whoa, this is big. But I just, I wanted to be there. And I was so excited for like what was ahead. It was so unknown, but also so exciting. Did you have any job opportunities lined up? Eventually I got my first gig, which was a backup dancer for Aaron Carter. Okay. Aaron Carter. Yeah.

I want candy. That, that, that, that, guy. Still remember the choreo. Oh, my God. I mean, I think, I mean, you know, God rest of this old Aaron Carter passed away. I know. But Aaron Carter, I mean, what year was that? That was...

That would have been in, like, 2001, 2002. So Aaron Carter's big stuff. Backstreet boys were doing their thing. Nick would come, you know, in and out, like an A&A. Plus, I was getting paid to do what I loved. Yes. I was like, I made it. you know, that feeling of that audience, I was just like, yes.

Like this, this is, this makes me feel alive. Yes, yes. All right. So you're doing that. You're loving it. Then what becomes the next career move? Well, I was like, uh, I did a lot of adverts for different companies like Canon Camera and Mervins and like fruit of looms and all that.

I remember as well because I had, I had, uh, my hair, as you could tell, I bleached this thing. It's not natural. Um, I had dark hair going to loss. Angeles. It was like, you know, Deolipas kind of brought it back. It was like, I had that like cherry sort of dark reddish brown hair out of

a box, you know, that I would do anyway. So I got, I was up for this Mervyn's commercial and they were like, well, we want you to go blonde. I was like, no, I'm not going to do it. And I went out and the girls like, do it, do it. And I was like, okay, I'll do it if you dye my hair back brown afterwards. And they were like, okay,

I'll fine, we will. But then I started book in so many gigs. And so the Blonde hair is stuck. It stayed. You know what? I've always wanted to ask someone. What? He's not naturally blonde as question.

So here it goes. Okay. Do blondes have more fun? Oh my gosh. I think I've had fun in all different days. You literally got more job opportunity with blonde hair. I did. That did happen.

Isn't that something? It is. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that something? So you stay with it. You're getting the jobs? I was getting the jobs.

You stayed with it? Mm-hmm. All right. How in the world? old, do you now join this iconic group, The Pussy Cat Dolls? Well, my friend told me that there was this group called The Pussy Cat Dolls and like all the best sort of female dancers were a part of it. And I was like, well, I want to try and audition. Like I would be a part of that. I auditioned for it and ended up, you know, having to dance,

having to sing and got the job. At that time there was like loads of us, you know, there was, it was a, my God, I don't even know how many girls, but it was loads of us having fun, up, having a good time, being, feeling girly and playful and fun. It wasn't until later that it turned into the pop group that everybody, you know, would know it as. But so it, like, it started getting a buzz because Carmen Elektra at the time started to come and doing gigs with us. And, you know, Carmen was big at that time. And, I mean, she's, you know, she's still doing her thing. And anyways, it just created a buzz of like, oh, well, why don't we go see the doll show before we, like, go out on a Friday night?

And then it just sort of like, bit by bit was like, well, Britney Spears wants to do something. Christina Aguilera wants to come and do something. Charlize Theron wants to come and do something. And when Gwen Stefani came, that's when like, that's when things shifted because Gwen brought Jimmy the head of Interscope Records. And he was like, this is cool. I might like take a few of you and make a pop group. Interesting. So that's the origin.

Was this all, so I was reading that, was this all in the Vipar Room? The Vipar Room's where it pretty much started, yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right, so this is Johnny Depp is, that's his. That was his place. Yeah, I don't know if he still owns it now, but yeah, back in the day, it was his spot. Okay.

Yeah. So he had this spot, Vipers, because I would always hear about the Vipar Room. Yeah. It was a staple on Sunset Boulevard. Oh, my gosh. Like, super, super exclusive. Yeah. What do you think it was at that time about?

the pussycat dolls in that iteration, right, that made everybody, Gwen Stefani, Britney Spears, like, that made them all want to do something with you all. I think it was just like something kind of fun and a bit sassy and girly thing to do. And because it was starting to get a buzz, it was like, well, that could be a fun thing, like, to pop in and do. And it kind of took you out of, like, maybe your regular routine or the songs that you've been doing, and you come and do like some different kind of songs. I don't know.

It just had this like buzz to it where everybody was coming to see the show before they'd be like heading out on a Friday or Saturday night. Now you mentioned when when Stefani performed with you, he brought Jimmy Iveen. Yeah. So how did that then change the course of the group? Yeah, well he just saw something like and was, started having conversations with Bob and Anton who started the dolls

and was like, you know, you got something going on here. Like, maybe there's something we could do here. And then I remember different kind of conversations happening about, like, well, we might do a song or, like, we might, you know, create, like, a pop group out of this. And I was like, well. And at that time, again, I was still doing other gigs and stuff. It was more like a side fun thing. So I was like, yeah, okay, cool. You know, if that happens, that, that would be awesome.

You know, not thinking necessarily, like, what it would become. I mean, I definitely always sort of felt in my mind. my heart, like, that I loved being on stage, and that was, like, where I felt most at home. So that sort of, like, feeling was existing in me probably already. But, yeah, it was when I remember sitting down. I didn't know who Jimmy Iveen was at the time or Ron Farr, all these, you know, big wigs that were amongst the music industry. I just remember being like, yeah, if you're going to pay me to, like, have a good time and

do what I love, like, sure, I'll get on board. It wasn't until they said, okay, we got this song, don't you? Celo Green has written it. I was like, okay. Cilow Green wrote. Ciloh, don't you? Wow. Okay.

For somebody else and then ended up being our song. Okay. And then they said Buster Rhymes is going to be on this track. And I was like, that's what I was like, wait a minute. This is real. I'm like, I called my mom and I was like, okay, I've just had a meeting and they've seen Buster Rhymes is going to. be on a track with us like what is happening yes like I just think I just was like this is this is wild he's well so all right I have to ask about the composition of the group okay

because you said at first it was yeah so what would you say 10 or more oh more yeah yeah it was like 14 yeah it was like gosh it was probably like 14 to 20 of us I mean maybe even more depending on like what the gig was but there was sort of like a six core group that were like the girls that sort of like a star today. And then a few other girls that would come in and then interchange. You know, it was like a show. So we didn't necessarily know what was going on ahead, but I felt grateful to be an honor to be asked to join this.

Yeah. So you go in, you record the song. Yeah. What happens next? It was, gosh, it was like, you know, it just, all of a sudden it was like zero to 100. I mean, we definitely were playing at like, you know, smaller gigs and stuff. But all of a sudden, we're playing at a gig.

And I'm like, oh, my God, they're singing the lyric. They're singing back to us. Like, what's going on? Wait a minute. Whoa. Like, this is trace. Yeah. Like, they know this song.

And I remember, like, just being on stage and be like, okay, this is cool. This is interesting. And even just shooting a music video, you know, again, like, I shot music videos, but it was for somebody else. else, you know, so it just all, I remember Jimmy having, you know, quite a powerful presence with him and knowing that he was well connected. But I think also not being fully aware of like how his connections were also going to like help us get through some of these doors. Yes. And it was just like a rocket ship.

It felt like that all of a sudden we were just all over the globe. It was like, where are we at today? Like, what's going on? Interesting. Yeah. You know what's so interesting to me about the Pussy Cat dolls that I didn't realize until doing this research is roughly between 54, 55 million albums sold? There are a few groups like Spice Girls, Destiny's Child, Lil Mix. Yeah.

These are groups that are above Pussy Cat Dolls. But Pussy Cat Dolls is top 10 of all time. Every now. and then we pop up on TikTok and I'm like, oh, I don't like, I don't know. Like, look, we're still going. Still doing things. It's, yeah, it's, it seems like another life sometimes. I have to like remind myself, all right, I was there.

Because it was, it was just such a, we were such in a bubble and it was, it was happening so fast that, you know, when we were sort of getting ready to possibly do the reunion, I was like, I want to soak up every moment of this. I really want to be present because when you're young and things are happening and you're just like, whoa, okay. But like it was, there was a lot going on.

Oh my gosh. There's a lot. What do you think about the moment of high, the moment of that this is just surreal I'll never forget this moment in the group. Sharon, like the stage with certain acts at time. Like, we toured, I mean,

it's crazy. Rihanna supported us back in the day. Yes. S-O-S-D-S-D. Hold on for a second. Hold on for a second. You're telling me, Rihanna opened for you. Neo-Rihanna and Lady Gaga.

They did all right. They did all right. They had decent careers, you know. We were just a little like springboard for them. We were like, have fun. That was the opening lineup. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, over in.

in Europe, yeah, and Australia, wild. We opened up and supported the peas, Christina Aguilera and Brittany Spears. Okay. So the mix was strong back in the day, but yeah, I mean, you know, it's like sharing, you hear, you know, we still, like, to this day, you hear all the music, I'm like, wow,

I shared moments and stages with these people. Yes. It's still, sometimes you don't quite wrap your head around it. No, no. With the Pussy Cat Dolls, I think what was so interesting is that every, pretty much everyone around the world can point to one or more songs from the Pussy Guy T dolls. Truly, right? So I could point to many. What's your favorite?

Buttons. Me too. Oh, is it? That's your favorite? Okay, so now they were talking about buttons. Yeah, okay. This is good. I felt that you were, it felt like you were one of the lead dancers of this group.

That's how it felt to me. I'm just giving you my opinion. Okay, okay. And I'm going to even comment on this. Yeah. And where I'm going with this, and this is a question, I'll give you my full context. Okay. I've been a part of ensemble casts, if you will, for almost my entire career.

And it's interesting to me as being part of an ensemble cast is that we're never told, especially on television project, you're never told, okay, this person is the lead, this person is number two, this person is number three, four, five, whatever. You're not told that, right? The edited experience wasn't what I felt in the room. Okay. So that's me. That's my experience. Was that your experience? there was a structure to the group that we knew about so that structure played out through whatever it was music videos

how routines were structured and that's the that's the way it was so the structure okay and so the structure and however much of this you don't want to talk about we don't have to right? But the structure was what? The structure was that Nicole was the lead singer and that was the structure. Yeah, that's how it seemed. Yeah. I mean, you know, it was what it was. I want to remember it as the legacy we've left behind,

the memories that I did have. that were amazing being on these stages, getting to do what I loved. You know, I don't want to sit here and bash and speak negatively about it. I mean, it was a certain time as well, like, where, you know, there's different conversations being had about, like, what, and moments to maybe take for yourself of, like, what is going on here? How do I feel about this? Maybe I'll voice that opinion.

Or all, you know, how is my mental health doing that? that stuff just didn't exist then. It was like you just sort of, you got up and you got the job done. Do I wish it was a bit more expansive, you know, yes. But also I was getting to live out my dreams. And so to sit here and speak negatively about something makes me take away from also what the fuck I got to do. So now the group through the years, right, what ends up happening, and you tell me, is that there was, was it, was right pre-COVID,

right now pre-COVID. Where the whole thought was, okay, the group is going to go back out on tour. Yeah. All right. COVID obviously plays a big issue. Yes. But then post-COVID, the group doesn't go back out. Yeah.

And what's, at least what's what you see in the press is that there was infighting that happened, and that's the result of the group breaking up. What's the reason? What's the real reason? I mean, I think that, well, we were ready to go and Ms. Rona shut it down. You know, she came in and said niche-nash to all of it. But there was then some, I can't actually, because there's legal stuff that was involved, so I can't actually speak about it.

But, yeah, unfortunately, legal stuff started happening and it wasn't able to get figured out. But, I mean, you never know, like, honestly, because I didn't think we'd get back out there the time that we did. So it'd be, it should be a shame not to. All right. So finance is my background. Okay. So, yeah. Everyone's like, you're doing all kinds of things.

Yeah. So that was, my first career was finance. What was it? So I always look at everything from a financial lens. Okay. So I started going down my nerd trail on how much money the pussycat dolls have made. Okay. Now you know what...

Somebody else probably made a lot of money. This is what I'm going to say. I mean, we know. So do you know what my calculation was? What? Oh my God. Paul! What would you know of my calculation?

What would you guess? I honestly wouldn't even have a clue. I know that I was, and I mean, again, see, this is, I feel weird sometimes talking about this stuff because I don't want people to feel like I'm like, yo, girl, you got to go do your dream, you got to travel, like, but when you work hard and then somebody else is capitalizing off of that, that's where it gets like a bit tricky. But I, you know, I was smart enough and I had good people around me at the time that I invested into a property. And listen, at, you know, at my age, I think I was like 27, 28. Not a lot of people could do that.

So I was like, I was grateful that I had that because I know I've heard some stories in the past where some people who didn't even, you know, have something to walk away with. Exactly, exactly. Nothing. They had nothing to show you. Yeah.

Right. At minimum, $250 million. That's a lot of cash. It's a lot of cash. That's a lot of cash. I saw the highest grossing tours in certain areas. Yeah. Probably that Lady Gaga.

Yeah, probably that one. Rihanna Nia a lot. Yeah. But in certain areas, highest grossing tour, you have 54 to 55 million albums sold. You still have all the streams that are happening. There's merchandise going on. So minimum, 250 million, right? So you have then press articles.

Yeah. Right. So all of that is all pressure that's being placed on you. And then also, I would imagine your schedule, especially when traveling, must have been. It was wild. Oh, my gosh, it was wild. I remember we were in Cairo, Egypt performing from the pyramids. And at that time, I think us and Sting had only, I'm sure now it's changed, but it had only been, like, the artists that got to do this.

You know, we're two don'ts and, like, booty pop it. And I turn around, like, the sphinx and the pyramids are, like, lit up in different colors. And I'm like, what is going on? and then I'm on a plane, wake up, and I'm doing a kiss concert in Los Angeles, you know, like straight off the plane. Or at one point we're in three different countries in one day. Like, it was just mental the schedule.

Yeah. It was wild. It's wild. I mean, and so all of this is like this, I don't want to call it a tornado, but it is swirling around you. Yeah. Right.

So all of this is swirling around you. How does that begin to impact? your mind in your body. I mean, I think this schedule took its toll as there wasn't a lot of time really to to take care of yourself. Like, I remember being looking, I remember looking forward to those long haul flights

because I was like, oh, that one's like, Australia's like how far? I have all that time to like rest on a plane and just like disconnect and like actually like get some sleep. I just felt like I wanted to just do the best that I could and go out there and perform. So really when my body started shutting down, that was when I was like, okay, I guess I got to, like, take a little pause. Okay. Take a little moment.

When you said your body would shut down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've spoken about this. So basically, we were in London doing a gig and I was sick. And I was like, okay, I'm just ill. You know, probably caught something.

vomiting and extreme headaches and it's not getting any better. And I'm like, okay, we need to get on a flight to go to Germany. Like, I don't think I can move. And so I ended up going to the hospital. And they were like, okay, we think that you're having brain aneurysm. So we need you to chill. And I was like, why do I need to get on plane? So like whatever y'all need to give me, like, let's get it done and then I can go.

And then as I'm walking to the MRI, my knee locks up. And I basically had viral arthritis. I didn't even know this with a thing. So I couldn't bend my knee as I'm walking to get the MRI. So my body just was like, stop. I had to stop. I was having some kind of reaction to a virus that I had caught.

And which was causing extreme headaches and then for my knee to lock up. Then you knee locked up. Yeah. All right. Then you went right back. Yeah. Then you went right back. Yeah.

Yeah. But that, how is the show must go on? I was like, let's, okay, this is what I, this is what we do. So what do you think? I want to show you something. I have many surprises for you. You ready? You ready?

Oh, doing things. Okay. Okay. So then, given everything that you've just told me. Yeah. What is the first thing that you think about when you see this? Like a baby. this was an exciting time because this was the first ever album cover.

So I was like, you know, I was like... You were in it. I was in it. And I was like, these clothes? Like, this is fun. If you can give Young Ash some advice right there, what would you tell her right when she's walking away from that photo shoot? Oh, girl, saddle up. It's going to be right.

Put that seatbelt on. I mean, yeah. But it's going to be, it's going to be, it's going to be everything. You know, it's like it's, it was hard. It was outrageous. It was extreme. It was intense. It was tough.

It was, there was tears. There was, like expression. Like, you know, like it was a lot. But I would, I would say yes again. You would say yes again. Yeah. Now, that, by the way, also is something that my boys would have no idea what that is that you're holding. So for anyone like my boys who are watching this.

I don't know what this is. This is what we used to play music. Yes, this was the good old days. And I'd have, like, Ashley's, like, you know, fun playlist, going out list, like, emotional playlist, like, having fun playlist. Did you ever put your own music on your playlist? No. Stop it right now. No, I'm serious.

You put your own music on your bonus. No, what? You would never put buttons on your promise. Oh, my gosh, stop. Seriously. No way. No, really? No, no way.

Really? No. You never sing, don't you to your boyfriend? What? Stop it right now. All right, all right, all right, dive, die, die, die. Oh my gosh, so grinchy. So bad.

Babe. Hey. You don't the shoulder in the shoulder. Yeah. So an epic period of your life. But then when you left the group, physically, you saw things happening to you. Yeah.

Yeah. I think there was a literal physical manifestation of just probably stored emotion within my body. And it's got to go somewhere, right? Like, at least I believe that. I believe, like, when you go through things in life, that the body, it stores it. And unless you've got some kind of release, the body's going to find a way to try and get it out. And I feel like that's what my body was trying to do. And, yeah, I had eczema all over my legs and little stomacal, so I had shingles across my chin.

Stress was at the root of these. I think stress was at the root from a young age. And I was lucky enough to have things like dance, have performing yourself as an outlet. But, like, I think my body has been used to and accustomed to holding stress in. So when you left the group, your thought was professionally to do what?

Well, I didn't have, I didn't really know. I knew I didn't want to do anything with what I'd done. So I didn't want to be in the music industry. I didn't want to dance, really. I didn't want to do any of that because I just felt exhausted by it all. Did it get scary where you were unsure professionally what you would end up doing? Yeah. I mean, yeah, I've been doing the same thing for so many years.

And I didn't necessarily feel like I wanted to do that anymore. So then it's like, okay, well, now what? But I was quite lucky when I was quite bored, let's say, in my hotel room by myself, I grabbed a makeup brush and I went downstairs and there used to be always like some people hanging around, you know, the hotel and stuff. And I just, I started videoing me talking to them. Were you living in a hotel? No, sorry, when I was on the road with the dolls.

Oh, okay. Sorry, yeah, yeah. You were doing that? In the doll days. Yeah, so I'd go down like, yeah. And so I started doing these little videos, not thinking anything of it and just putting out there because I was trying to do it. to just entertain myself.

And then when I got out of the dolls, like I started having some meetings and I'm like, I've seen some of the videos that you've been putting out. Like, we'd love for you to come do some stuff on E, some stuff on MTV. And that kind of started the ball rolling with me presenting. I see. I see. What about dance, though? This is something that you have, that was your first love.

Yeah, that was a crushing. That was really crushing for me because I felt like I walked away from it. and I couldn't even watch like dance programs on television. It was like because it just was too hard for me to do because I just felt like I didn't want to do it anymore. And I also felt like because I'd been doing the dolls for so long, I'd lost some of my technique that I'd worked so long for like before that. So I felt like I wasn't good enough anymore to go to these classes

and just show up and then coming outside of the group. It was like, I just, it was my ego, really, because I should have just gone in those classes anyways and dance. But I just sort of wanted to, like, shove that in a box and move forward and try and figure out some other things. But, okay, but help me understand. So you started dance, you said at three, correct? Three.

Yeah. So you start dance at three. Yeah. You've entered in your late 20s. You've been dancing your entire life. It's been your escape. Yeah. And, according to my opinion, you're one of the first of.

of the top dancers in the world. Well, I don't know that. Okay, but I mean, you're in the number one pop group, the lead dancer, no, you're in the number one pop group, you're dancing in the number one pop group in the world. That means that you are in the top 1% of what you're doing, okay? You are. Mm-hmm. And then you just stop.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. What's the reason why? I just felt like the relationship that I had with, like, the reason I got into that group was because of the passion. The passion led me to A, B, and C, and the passion wasn't there. It was like, it was wrapped in and entangled with so many other complex things within my past and my life and my work. And then I again, like, I think my ego also got in a way of like, where you're not like where you used to be as well.

So just like, just put that aside. Like, you know, that, we don't even do that now. Okay. Which, I mean, was like, like, literally I feel like a part of my soul. Like, I know that sounds super deep and heavy, but like I felt like a piece of my soul died when I've stopped dancing. Because I was just like, yeah. You were doing the TV bits?

Yeah. And then was it from the UK you were called to do I'm a celebrity? Yeah. Something happened to a friend of mine, and she was like, Ash, you know, we just never know in this life. Like, we don't know what's going on. Like, and I was like, you know what, you're right? I'm just going to say yes to this crazy adventure. I mean, I've, like, I'm a picky eater.

I'm a weird sleeper. like, I don't like snakes or rats or any of those things. I was like, what am I doing? But I was like, I'm just going to say yes. I'll have some wild stories to tell. Plus, I thought I'd be kicked out quite early. Okay. Like, honestly, I was like, okay, I'll probably be in there a couple days.

Like, and it's cut to, I'm on a plane, and I land, and I'm like, what have I done? I just didn't know what I'd done, what I'd signed up for. Which in some ways was good. I think ignorance was bliss in some ways, because some people. people who hadn't known some of the tasks and stuff. Yes. Probably knew maybe what was coming. But yeah, that changed the whole direction literally, like, of my life.

I mean, I'm a celebrity. Yes. I never thought I wouldn't be living here. And I did the jungle. I was there till the end. You were runner up that year. Yeah. For Charlie, Charlie Brooks.

It's been the biggest gift, honestly, like that show and then coming out of it and being scooped up by the UK public. Like, it's changed my life in the most positive way. So I just was like just so grateful. True story. My family and I land in an airport in the United States. In the airport, three things happened that made me say, I'm leaving the U.S. immediately. Wow. First, my son's getting some candy.

the candy the row of candy was one row below the gun magazines there were there must have been 10, 12 different gun magazines the candy is underneath it so you must look at the gun magazines. That's one. Secondly is I go to order coffee and the size is super super large jug or a barrel. They said this will fit into your cup holder and then we'll extend outward so you get a bowl. A bowl. I was like, I don't need a bowl of coffee. That was two. Three is I walked into an elevator and everyone's super loud.

Yeah. I know and you're like, was I like, like, am I like that? Am I loud? Yes, is that me? I know. It's a trip, isn't it? It was too much. So I think that we can empathize and sympathize with each other on living here.

Yeah. So you make the move here. Yes. And then how quickly do you then do strictly? I, well, ended up getting Heart Radio, Breakfast Radio, my radio show that I do Monday to Friday, which we've come in contact with many times while you've been promoting your amazing books and all the work that you do. That's what made me officially be here, living here like whole time because of the job itself. I mean, I already was mostly here, but I was still.

kind of popping back and forth. And then, you know, after my father passed away, that was the same year that strictly happened. And then everything sort of just fell in line. And it was like, I feel like also being sort of guided to stay where I'm most supported. Yes. Which was here. Yes. Yeah. How did you think the experience at Strictly? Because now that I understand how integral dances to your life, how you had stopped dancing, and then to go into Strickley, where you have to dance, basically, you probably practiced every day

for it, or when we got into it, yeah. The mere mortals would have to practice every day. You probably practice two times. Oh, no, no, no. But how did that begin to then shape your thoughts around dance again? Like, did you fall back in love with it?

Yeah. So, okay, The year before I was on it, I got sort of whispers that, like, we might have, Ash, we might want you to be a part of the show this season. And I was like, oh, I don't know, I don't know. And my dad was like, you have to. Like, I will fly to London to see you dance. Like, because my, that was, my dad loved watching me dance. And he had this little whistle he would do every time before I hit stage.

So I knew where he was in the audience. He was like, you got to do that. I want to see you dance. I was like, I don't know. Anyways, it didn't end up working out that year and cut to the next year. Unfortunately, you know, he was no, he wasn't here any longer. He wasn't here anymore. So when I got the call to do it, it was wrapped up in so many things.

Because it was my dad wanting me to dance again and wanting to see me do that. And then also for myself to dance again. And then I was learning new styles that I had never learned before. And also it was the first season ever in Strictly history where they brought in couple's choice. So couples choice is where you're allowed them to do a style outside of Latin in ballroom. And when I grew up, my, what I loved the most was contemporary because it was very self-expressive. and so I got to choreograph a dance in contemporary style dedicated to my dad,

which also happened to fall on remembrance. Wow. I mean, so the, like, the timing of everything was just, it was magical. Yes. And people that were watching, like, I wasn't just dancing for myself. I was dancing, and that's what so beautiful about that art is, like, it can connect you and use a piece of music to bring you in and have that human experience together

through this beautiful piece of music and a beautiful piece of art and it happened at that time. And I was like... Look at all that, yeah. Nothing just happens. Right? It was wild. It was, yeah, it was...

It felt very special to me. So I really just blocked out like, you know, the outside noise and was just like, going to, I'm going to use this as a way to get back into an art form that I really love and also, you know, do this for my dad. Look at that. Yeah. Look at that.

Yeah. And then look at how well you did. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I was getting the votes on that one, but I got, you say, because I got to the end. Yeah. I mean, but I was, I was in the bottom several times. But you got to the end. Yeah.

Got to the end. It was just happy being there. I was, I was like, thank you. It was hard. Though you say the dances, it was, it is hard work. And I knew that. I'm like, okay, and I still, you know, I train and I, I mean, I like to do my workouts and stuff. I was like, I feel like I'll be all right with this.

Ooh, we. Yeah. But see, you're being, I think, too hard on yourself because as I look here at my notes, I see that you received none other than a perfect score of 40 after dancing to time of my life. The lift. Like on that lift. A perfect score?

So come on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's... The scores, the scores are nice, but the experience and the timing of it all was just what was most important to me. Yes. Yes.

So did you fall back in love with dance? My mom, I made a promise to my mom that I would continue it. I don't do it, you know, every single day, but I still continue to get together with some friends and do little bits and stuff here and there just to keep the body moving and keep it going. Okay. Yeah.

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Before starting Epglus, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about Evglis and visit abglis. that lily.com or call 1800 LilyRX or 1,800 545-979. Now, you just mentioned that in part you joined strictly because of your father. Right. If we could spend a moment

on this, your father was a musician. Yeah. Correct? Yeah, drummer, percussionist. I'm very creative, very artistic. And that's what I loved probably most about him. I mean, I remember just my earliest memories is music being played in the house. His passion for music was just something that, like, was my dad. I mean, he was drumming on everything.

Everything was of space to make music. And that was what was also so cool. I just felt like he was cool. He was cool. Yeah. I read that he even drummed on your mother's stomach. Yeah. Yeah, on her belly.

On her belly? Yeah. So you had that rhythm early. Yeah, I think, I mean, my mama kind of says, like, I came out the womb dancing. So, so clearly there was a challenge between your parents, because eventually they split. Yes, yes. But when you just look back and you think about Ashley as the little girl, how did you feel? I felt quite lonely and isolated in a sense because, again, like you said, we didn't have these kind of conversations.

And at that age, I didn't quite understand what was going on. I just felt like my role was to be there with my dad through his tough times. I wanted to be there for him. Interesting. So you felt like your role was more of almost a parent to your father or a big sister maybe to your father. It was more like I'm going to sit here through the storm and make sure you go to bed, you know, make sure like things okay. So I mean, maybe looking back now, there was probably a switch in the,

the parental child role, but at the time, it just more was like, I'm going to sit here through the storm. That's sort of just how I felt. It felt like I needed to be there. Wow, interesting. And just to explore this a little bit more, and we'll move on, is, because you just said, I'm going to be here for you, make sure that you go to bed. Yeah.

So was it literally that? Was it literally I'm going to make sure that you go to bed? Yeah, some nights I wanted to make sure that he was. you know, going to bed and was still breathing. Yeah. Okay. It's a lot for a little girl to take on. How do you think that shapes you as a little girl?

I think it, well, you know, it gave me a lot of drive because I felt like I was going to rely on myself, you know, and in some ways that's given me that oomph to like I look after myself, take care of myself, provide for myself, go out there and want to, you know, keep moving, put one foot in front of the other. But also I think where I struggled in was relationships, friendships or, you know, I had good friends,

but I think I always sometimes struggle with the, I learn these attachment styles, right? The avoidment, avoidant attachment style is probably what I relate to the most, which is probably just more of a protectiveness of, well, I don't know where this could go or I feel safer, just taking care of myself. Yes, yes.

And so, you know, with avoidance, what I know is that what ends up happening is it's a result of not having, feeling safe with your primary caregivers. And by you saying that there was a little bit of distance between you and your mother and you having to be almost the protector for your father, then what ends up happening is the only person you can rely on is... Yeah, myself, yeah.

Yourself? Yeah. So that's how you felt as a little girl. Yeah. Yes, that is true. And then again, I go back to being so grateful for my dance and my community because I think if I didn't have that, it would have been even... worse. I recently was on a panel with the gentleman who heads calm in the UK.

There was a stat that he mentioned on the panel that completely blew me away that was under the age of 50, the top reason for death for men is the taking of our lives. Under the age of 50. Under the age of 50. when something like that happens and he can't take it anymore, how does that impact the person that was trying to protect him all this time? This is tricky because every person who has gone through this could have a different circumstance. So for me, knowing how much he did suffer.

I mean, I wish, like, again, when I think back to him, like, when I was younger and seeing him as that little boy, I wish I could give him the tools that I know now, you know, because maybe by having those, there would have been a different story to tell. But unfortunately, he didn't have those. So I have a, well, this photo. So fairly close to this, that photo being taken, I had a friend take his life. And it was my first experience with going through that. Yeah. Right. And one of the things that I remember,

looking back, where I remember at the time is that we, the friendship circle, that we placed blame on ourselves because we felt as if there were multiple things we could have done, should have done, et cetera. We weren't there for him. And it's one of those where I wish I could have gone back and told myself that I wasn't responsible, you know, for it. And with the prevalence of suicide throughout the world, we're all, not all, but many of us are now connected to it, a friend, family member, co-worker, etc. And many of us, I think, assume that responsibility.

So what lesson do you have for us in that? because I feel like you're at a place where you've reconciled with what's happened and you've learned from it. So what message do you have for us, or should I say, that boy? I don't know how to answer this if I'm honest with you because I just feel like it's such a big responsibility and I don't have all the answers. You know, I'm just some, I'm just a human trying to do the best they can with what's been given to me. I feel like for myself, I really leaned into trying to discover things that made me feel better and people that could support me through what I was going through and experiencing that have, um, have, um, have, a better understanding and better tools than maybe I do. Fair enough.

I think reaching out for support is super important. You don't have to suffer alone. Yeah, and there's people that do care and want to help you. So, yeah. That's fair. And I tell you what, it's one of those where I think the better question is, how did you begin to heal? I think you're always healing.

I think I'm still healing right now. I mean, you know, it's just, but for me, again, I sort of, like I said, before, I've always sort of had this feeling of like there's this more out there that haven't quite grasped yet that's going to be able to help because nobody, like, gives us a manual when we're kids and is like, okay, here's how to handle all of this stuff that you're going to go through. We've got to figure it out. We've got to. So I think taking steps to

to finding amazing books that can help you, amazing podcasts, amazing therapists, you know, teachers, mentors, friends, having access to these kind of things. And for yourself, like, show up for yourself. You know, you're worthy. You're worthy to heal. You're worthy to, to.

And you also, it's okay. to not be okay, like to experience all the levels. Sometimes, you know, I feel like I'm doing great. And all of a sudden something happens and then I'm like, oh, well, there it is, out of motion. You know, it's still there. It's still stored in the body a bit. But like, I'm working on it, you know, and I'm showing up. And it's just important to show up for yourself. And just maybe a reminder of that that you're worthy of showing up and keep doing it. Yes. And when you think about showing up for yourself through the years, I know that that

that there's that anxiety is something that you suffered with it's something that I also have a history of but it sounds like what you did early on is you would try to self-soothe through

through what was it Nyquil? Nyquil was my little like bedside friend I mean I was coping I didn't know what to do and I was you know not sleeping. What

point in your life did you begin to, you know, drink, you know, night will. And by the way, I think night nurse is the equivalent. This is equivalent, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I think I was 14. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I went,

I was putting a lot of pressure on myself for this choreographer that was coming into town. I wanted to really show up and be the best I could be. And throughout the night, then I just was so anxious that I didn't sleep. And I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't sleep.

And then I was worried the next night about not sleeping. And then that happened for a few nights in a row. And I thought I was going out of my mind. And so I was like, well, I need something to help me sleep. I see that, like, you know, on the advertisements, like, this is what helps you sleep. So I was just chugging that every couple hours to try and get myself through the night to sleep. 14. Did your parents now?

No. And so that just then became. the norm because I was nervous than if I didn't sleep, then I wouldn't be able to be myself, really, like, show up, have the brain capacity to operate through school, work, dance, you know, everything. So then I was nervous that my mental health wouldn't be stable. It's probably counterproductive, but at the time I didn't know. I just felt like sleep's important when you need to sleep.

So, yeah. So you would take NyQuil. And then did that progress? Yeah, yeah, I started taking. I mean, anything that was going to help me sleep, it was, uh, Xanax was really helpful for many decades of my life. For many decades. Yeah, I had sleep issues since I was 14.

And I didn't really know what was going on or how to handle it. And there was, I just knew that this would knock me out for a few. few hours. So that's like what I would do in order to get sleep. I can say now today, honestly, like, I mean, I think this is something that I will probably struggle with, stress, anxiety. You know, but this is stuff that we go through as humans. But routine, like getting this heart breakfast gig, which I remember thinking, I'm not doing that long term. Like, my gosh, that's early morning. It's like, not for me. Got to go to bed early. Not cool. Yes. You know, but the structure, the stability, and the routine has been a game changer.

And I've been able to teach my body to have that sort of rhythm. But that's taken, you know, time. And I still don't have, I still don't have, like, the perfect relationship with sleep. Yes. Where I's had a sort of a belief system that I might not be mentally stable if I keep. not sleeping throughout the night, which again with the upbringing that I had and what I'd seen, that I was, that was a concern of mine. Yes, yes. So with the, with the Xanax in particular, right?

I've noticed an enormous number of celebrities consuming Xanics. I mean, my gosh, we were talking about, oh my gosh, Aaron Carter. Yeah, I know, bless him. from reading the autopsy reports, it was he took Xanix and then drowned as a result of that. So this is Xanics is something that is prevalent. 20% of people who have an anxiety disorder also have a substance use disorder. Interesting. Well, they're trying to calm down that anxiety because, I mean, for me, like, before I go to bed,

it was like heart pounding stress. Like I was and I was jacked up. Like I felt like I felt like the only way I was going to be able to calm down was to take something to relieve that. But I also feel like through a lot of my practices, these breath exercises I've been doing being able to calm my nervous system down, calm down my brain a bit. And then have that practice and that routine every night. I'm like, I trust myself now that I'll be able to that I'll be able to, to sleep. And also, if I do wake up and then I'm not going to, I trust now that I'm not going to lose my mind, that I'll be all right. I'll get through. I might be a little tired. I might be,

but I'll be all right. When did you first discover breathwork? Yeah, so I was living in Notting Hill years ago. I just feeling a bit lost, a bit like, what's next? I'm not quite sure, you know, far away from home. Is this where I want to live? Just sort of all these questions. And I saw, this retreat that was available in Bali. It's very like eat, very love of me. Yes. I was like, you know what? It was very expensive and I was like, I'm just

going to invest into this because who knows? First of all, I get to go an adventure and maybe they'll find some tools that can help me. I didn't know Breathwork was going to be a part of this retreat. I knew this guy, Maston Kipp, who had worked with Oprah a few times, was going to be there and he was going to be speaking. So I was like,

Okay, he seems like he's got like a great understanding about life. He might be somebody to help me. I'm going to go. So in between his talks, he'd be like, we're going to be doing this breath work stuff. In between, it's called Kundalini. It's like yoga and movement and using your breath. And I was like, cool. Sounds great.

I'll try it. And so I remember thinking like, whoa, like this. This is cool. I just felt so relaxed. And I mean, on top of also being in this gorgeous. place and, you know, digital detox as well, the combination of all of it. But I walked away being like, actually out of all of that, like, I want to continue doing this. And that was probably about like 10 years ago. Okay. So what were you doing specifically? So I sit down like we are right

now, speak about maybe what's been going on in life, like certain subjects that might have come up, sort of maybe, I guess, like you would do in like a therapy session, but just speaking about life. And then, okay, we're going to start the session. And then it's called a Kria, which is, which is a sequence of exercises that you do, really. And I would do that for about an hour, 45 minutes to an hour, and feel phenomenal afterwards. But in the midst of writing this book and understanding, like, the science behind and everything, I'm like,

oh, this is really doing stuff. Like, this is activating parts of my nervous system that I need to activate, which is the parasympathetic, mostly for me, part of the nervous system, which is the rest and digest, the calm, you're safe, we're all right. So when I'm doing these practices at the end, that's how I feel. We are all throughout the day, we're in a state where you talk about serotonin levels, which is really what chills us, but we have cortisol levels, which elevate our stress, etc.

Yeah. But all day our cortisol is being elevated. We're being more stressed and stressed and stressed. We're not regulated, which is in this calm state. And then we were making decisions in that heightened state. And when I do all my research around regulation, what everyone always says is, well, the best way to regulate is get with someone, someone, a partner, a close friend, someone who you have an emotional connection to. and they are the best to help you to regulate. But the reason why your book is so important

is because we don't often have that person accessible. This is it. Right? Yeah. We have to be able to self-regulate. This is a critical life skill. So I feel like your book is teaching us this incredible skill that we all need to know.

I think the biggest compliment is when your community reflects back to you. Like, there's shifts. going on here with you. You know, like the way that you maybe would have reacted to that in the past, you've shown up differently. Maybe something that would have like stressed out and taking you down a spiral, the bounce back is quicker. Like, you know, what you're doing, like, is working.

And I'm like, yeah, it is. It is like, I am starting to show up differently in the world. So the world I'm existing in is showing up differently. What is a technique, like a quick breath work technique that you can teach our everyone out? Well, there's, I mean, God, I love so many of them. Honestly, like the, okay, so I think it's good because I don't know who all is listening. There could be people that have done breathwork, and so there's more advanced ones that I love very much. But I think if we start sort of... Give us the basic. That's what I'm saying. Level one. Yeah. So the 4-7-8 is really easy,

and it's something that you can probably just even look up online where you take an inhale through the nose slowly for four counts and then you hold the breath for seven and then you exhale slowly out of the mouth yeah for eight so and you can do that for um i mean if if 30 minutes go up to to two minutes if you can go even longer if you can to really start to feel that shift that's quite just simple and easy the box breath is also really simple and easy where you inhale for four hold the breath for four exhale for four uh the physiological sigh can i give you full full disclosure what i do the box breath yeah before every commitment ceremony on mary at first i do you really i do the box i do that i do the four four four four yeah every commitment

ceremony yeah and it was uh taught to me by a friend so i have a friend who is uh she's a psychologist and she works with uh literally she works with psychopaths uh in prisons. And she told me that the most effective technique to regulate these individuals, they're human beings, you know, these, these humans, before she's able to treat them in prison, is to do the box breath. And that does it. I mean, it just, it's one of these, I feel like this is a, this is a, this is a cheat code.

Yeah. Like breathwork is a cheat code that people are now just beginning to talk. So with the box breath, I'm curious, like, how long do you do that for? So I was going to ask you this exact question is, how long should I do it? So I do four box breaths. Yeah. So I try. But, you know, it's interesting.

It's always time dependent. Yeah. And I'll be also transparent. I'm very aware that I don't want anyone to see me doing it. Yeah. I know. I'm sometimes at work like. Yeah.

Second of your, yeah, yeah. I walk around the streets of London sometimes doing the curled tongue one. I'm like, and I'm like, people probably think, I'm just sticking my tongue out at people? Yes. Yeah, yeah. I was thinking, you, have you ever tried the alternate nostril breathing? No, no. So this is really good for balancing the brain hemispheres and also calming the nervous system, calming yourself.

Okay. And I thought that would be an interesting one to try. Let's do it. Okay. Let's do it. So you take your, you can start with your right thumb, and you would close the right nostril, take an inhale through the left, then you block the left. Oh, no, I don't want to do that, Ashley.

And then you exhale, and then you inhale through the right, close, and then exhale, and then exhale, close, exhale. Yeah, long, slow, and deep, and go to your own rhythm. I see. But can you already start? You know, it's interesting. I do, you know, I will say I feel leveled. Is that how you're supposed to feel?

I think it's so it's the different sides are sort of like balancing the different brain hemispheres. And so I would do that one. I mean, for me, I like to do three minutes. But I think if you're just starting, maybe start at 30 seconds and then build up to two minutes and then build up more as you go along. Okay. But for me, I love that one. And you go at your own breath. So like if you exhale longer or inhale longer, but you just want to get slow and nice and deep.

Yes. And then afterward, yeah, you should feel a bit calmer. Did you do breathwork before you walked in? I did. Well, I was doing it at work this morning. I was doing it last night because I was nervous about this conversation. So I was using it to try and help regulate myself a little bit. But, you know, it's something that I'm really passionate about.

And I feel like if it's helped me, it possibly can really help others. So your book, in essence, is like this masterclass of breathwork. So my book is personal stories about myself to help the reader as well as to understand the human connection of like what has gone on in my life and what they might be able to relate to as well. Because we've all gone through hardships and struggles and stuff. And then it's a bit of the science behind breathwork, how I found it. And then each chat. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet.

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When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton. For this day. I have a few breath exercises for you to try. All right. I love it. I love it.

So on that note, I have another surprise for you. Okay. I have a surprise for you. This is someone who read the book. Who? They read the book and here's what they thought about the book. You ready? Ready for this?

Yeah. Hi, honey. I've tried to get through this without being too emotional. But as you can see, I already am. I want to start off with saying how much I love you and how proud I am of you. This is a beautiful book. And I know it wasn't easy talking about things that you've always kept private and personal. Stuff in the book that I didn't know about and it pulls at my heart.

But you've done a beautiful job. And breathing works. I've been doing it myself. And it's going to help a lot of people. So I just wanted to tell you how proud I am of you and how much I love you. And I hope the book is an amazing success. I love you, honey. Isn't she the cutest? Oh my gosh. Also, I love that she's got the album behind her. Yeah, gosh. You know, I knew this book would be a bit confronting for her and I. But also it's been very healing because we've been having conversations about stuff that we probably wouldn't have had conversations about.

And, yeah, I mean, she's the one that matters the most. So. Mama P. We call her. Mama pay. You see the pee. She's a pee on the necklace. Yeah, she's representing.

Everyone loves a pee on the necklace, all right? But I thought that was beautiful. Yeah. Can we talk about relationships? Okay. Can we talk about relationships? Because the assumption probably is, oh, look at her. You know, she's good looking.

She has that blonde hair. Right. Relationships have been easy for her. She's a pop star, right? She's a celebrity, right? Relationships have been easy. I'm sure that is the assumption. But from what I've read, what I've researched, what I am assuming is it has not been.

It's been, well, I've had, you know, I've sampled a lot of different flavors. Spicy, salty, sweet, like, You know, I think also, and I don't know if this comes down to also the way I was with my upbringing. But relationships also weren't the forefront of what I was really desiring. I really had ambition to, you know, go out there, have a career. I didn't really have, like, any proper boyfriends in high school. It wasn't until I got into my 20s that I ended up having.

having like my first proper relationship. And, you know, we were young, so lots of things were playing out then, you know, and I was in the dolls at that time I was traveling all around the world. So, but I think I have had this sort of avoidant, let's say, like push away in a sense as well. where I was always like, okay, I'll probably walk away from this, though. You know, like, this isn't going to last. Interesting. Kind of thing.

Or I would choose partners that were quite fiery, which was, you know, I was at that time, the rouge flags were flying all over the place. And I was like, well, no, but this feels exciting. Like, you know, this is like, this is, passionate and all of those things and then the dynamics within the relationship were not healthy. Yes. And even for us to spend a second on this. This is my topic right here. I know it is. Is that what you're saying is precisely what happens when someone has an avoidant attachment style, right? They end up with these relationships with people who either they just

quickly dismiss or they're fiery. They perceive. them to be hyper masculine. Yeah. Right. Now, do you know why that is? I mean, I think that what's familiar as love is what you sort of recreate and a bit of chaos, a bit of, I mean, there was some dynamics within my, my childhood of being, of feeling guilty. so that would play out as well. So I think it was what was familiar to me.

Okay. So it typically ends up being one of two types of family setups, in particular for little girls. One is if they have had an authoritarian parent, a parent that was, you know, ruled like they were a dictator of a country, right? And that becomes familiar so that when they become older, they're seeking someone to rule over them like their parent ruled over them. So there's an authoritarian role. The other much more prevalent from an un-atribunized attachment or avoid an attachment style, same thing, is a parent that you were not emotionally connected to, that you sought.

connection with that parent or those parents. And they were never, never able to deliver love in the way that you needed it. And as a result, you had to rely on yourself. And as you rely on yourself more and more and more, you realize that what you were missing, you could handle everything in life. But what you're missing, what you're missing is emotional safety. And you begin to believe that emotional safety and stability comes from something ultra fiery, ultra strong. That's going to give you that safety. And many avoidance end up in these relationships with people who can become very dangerous towards them. So it's typically one of those two. It feels like you were more of this latter category. And those early relationships with those men were your attempt. at having something stable in your life. But were those early relationships stable for you? The early one was, I mean, again, we were just young

and you've got, you know, all those chemicals and going off and all that stuff. I think more like the fiery stuff happened after that. Because after I left that relationship, I was like, I'm good. I don't really like need to do this whole relationship. thing again just like I've got I'm I can take care of myself like so mentality that you're sort of speaking about I'm safer I think also within just myself right okay uh but then when I came into

relationships probably a bit more in my adult life um that's when I feel like yeah those kinds of men were more uh prominent the ones I was choosing yeah yeah I mean in And those were tough ones, you know, to get on the other side of because there's a sense of wanting to, like, which is an interesting thing because I feel like I'm quite strong when it comes to relationships, but I felt I lost my sort of voice within it at times and then had to sort of relearn like what I believe is good for myself. controlling and kind of, you know, manipulative kind of stuff going on. But again, like, going back to these practices and showing up and being consistent,

like the relationship I'm in now is the healthiest one that you ever have. I've ever had, yeah. Here is my biggest question around your current partner. Okay. is when was the moment that you felt for the first time you felt fully safe with him? You know, it was quite early in the beginning, which is funny enough, because I was very sort of, I was pushing back on it being a relationship. He's a bit younger than me. And I was like, you know, this is fun.

But like, you know, he was like, he was just like, no, I really like you. yeah, okay, but it's a bit of fun. And then again, like, over time, there was a few things in the beginning, just the answers that were coming back at me from this human, the emotional intelligence, the kindness, like, I was like, wait a minute,

like, I don't, I don't, I want to continue getting to know you as a person anyways because, first of all, I feel like, calm around you and also I like your reactions to things like I like how you're responding to stuff in life and I'm digging that

yes and you know he's he's just been such a light and such a gift and a rock and a rock and to that point of checking in this is the one part of dating

that I think is undervalued most and that is how do you physically feel with the person. Yeah. And I always say that, and this is why I think your book is so important, is that that state of regulation is everything.

And not just partner friendships as well, like people that you spend your time with. Exactly. And our body never lives. Yeah. And oftentimes what I've noticed is, and I'm sure you know this too because you're so in tune with your body

is that you will literally talk to someone and your body will, you'll feel like maybe a stomach cram or you'll feel stress, the cortisol go up, stress levels go up a little bit. Right, your body is telling you, get away from this person. Yeah. You know, it's a threat response.

You know, so with a partner, what I often say is not what did they say, what, not what do they do, but how did you feel? Yeah, and that's it, right? That is it. Yeah. And if you feel safe. I feel safe, I feel seen, I feel respected.

Yes. I feel looked after in a way that I haven't had in the past. And I'm just going to say yes. Because at the end of the day, it's really the human, right? Like, I've dated guys my own age and they didn't have that emotional intelligence going on. Now, can I talk about the age difference? You sure is. Okay.

So you said it's a little bit. Yeah. All right. It's 17 years. Yeah. All right. So he's 17 years younger than you. Yeah.

He's 27 now and I'm 43. Okay. All right. All right. So does that factor in to the relationship at all? Um, no. I think, I think that I keep sort of looking for it in a sense. Like, oh, when's it going to show?

up, you know, I mean, and maybe there's different, like, bits of pop culture or stuff that, like, we didn't have because we weren't, like, going through the same moments. Yes. But as far as, like, people, guys that I've dated and he shows up the most maturely, like, it's, it surprises me, I think even on a daily basis. Look at that. Yeah. Look at that. Now, we know that there's a massive double standard. in society.

Yes. Around age difference relationships, whereas, you know, men can have a partner in a heterosexual relationship can have a partner who's 17 years younger, and he's not ostracized, he's not shamed. Probably no one even looks twice when he's walking out of the screen. Do you feel the double standard?

Do you feel any of that pressure being the woman, being the older person in the relationship? Well, I was more nervous. about the news coming out than he was because of that. Because I felt like I was going to be really judged. And I was judging myself as well because I was like, you know, again, like I said, I thought it was going to be a bit of fun in the beginning and I was all right with that. But then like, oh, this turning into something like you being my partner is a whole different ball game.

And I was really nervous. And actually, interestingly enough, I mean, I've gotten quite a nice response. Look at that. But like you said, if I was a, if I was male, I probably wouldn't even have thought twice about being insecure about this news coming out. But I'm at a point now in my life where I'm like, this person standing next to me makes me feel safe and sane and heard and understood.

And that means more than what, if someone else has like a funky opinion about it. Yes, yes. Now, your partner is. from the UK. Yeah, he's Northern. He's a Northern boy. I'm saying,

the North wins. I know, the nice people. The nice people. Why? Is it, is it, is it, is the North, I just feel like, what, is everyone just more charming in the North? You know, it's even like when I was with his family.

It's like, you just sit down and everybody's having a chat. It's just nice vibes. It's like, I don't know. It's just, they've got like something in the bones, maybe something in the water up there. I don't know.

Water. Yeah. The tea is the tea. Yeah, the tea is the tea. The tea is stronger up north. That's what it is. I have a final question. Another surprise?

And I do have one final surprise. We're joking. Yeah, I do. Do you want the final question or the final surprise? Let's do question and then surprise. All right, let's do that. Okay. So final question is a question that everyone gets.

Oh, gosh, okay. And that is, if you think back through all of the amazing conversations you've had throughout your life. Yeah. Which one stands out as the most memorable. Who was it with? And what did you learn? I hear two in my head. I'm going to go away. Well, my dad, he said, because while I got into the dolls, and obviously he had had a bit of his rock and roll background, right? And he was like, this train won't last forever. So I enjoy the ride. And I was trying to remember. And I was trying to remember that amongst all the chaos. But it was amazing to have that, that connection with him. And I hold that very dearly to my heart, you know, because I know that again, he had a tragic

ending, but he brought a lot of color to the life that he did have. Yes, yes. I can see it. You know, it is poetic and profound that you would end on that story. because here's the final. Oh, no. Surrive now for you. You ready? I don't know. All right.

I want you to close your eyes. Oh, close my eyes. Close your eyes. Okay. And I want you to look at this. This is the final surprise. Look at this. Oh, Fosh.

I called him Fosch. No. You know why I thought it was, it was germane to end on this note. Mm. is because what I didn't realize is that your story is your father. Yeah. And I didn't realize how integral he is still is to your life. Yeah.

And I think that being a parent, there's a, you know, as a parent, the first thing that I thought about in this sounds bizarre to some people when my children were born. Yeah. Was my mortality. I immediately thought about, well, you know what? I need to be alive long enough so that they can survive on their own. Yeah.

And I can essentially pass the torch to you know. And this is a torch that's been burning through the entire history of our family. Right. And what I realize is that your father remained on this earth long enough to pass you the torch He did Yeah And honestly

This photo So his favorite place In the entire world Was Huntington Beach And this is on the beach With him And him being his goofy self So

Like those are the memories That I hold so closely To my heart As us being silly and ridiculous And being by Huntington Beach There you go There you go And

you have this torch now. Yeah. And I think what's also incredible for you is that you think, oh my gosh. Well, you might not think this, but I think people may think this. She was a part of one of the biggest groups of all time, right? Think of how large the torch was at that time. But I believe that your torch has just begun to become brighter. And it's going to become so bright.

You won't even be able to stare at it. I guarantee it. I think this new face. of your life is an incredibly important phase of your life. Not only are you shifting into a new woman, you're an author, but you are more stable than you ever have been here and here in your heart. So my hope is that you maintain that stability. And with that stability, you are going to go places that you never dreamt of.

Thank you. Yeah, you will. I hope so. You will. That means a lot. You will. And, you know, one last thing I will say. Okay.

From me talking to you, my observation is that I don't want you to be as hard on yourself as you are. Because you are incredibly hard on yourself, Ashley. That's what my mom always says. You got that just from this conversation? I got this just from this conversation. You know? I think that you have to give yourself grace and you have to understand how far you've come

and what you have gone through and where you are going. And give yourself grace. Thank you. That's literally what my mom always says to me. Ooh, a child. Daddy, fan me off. Thank you. That was kind of you.

Yeah, this has been challenging. Because like you said, I just want to handle all these subjects with grace. Yes. And, you know, a lot of the stories that come out end up being about the dolls or about, you know, relationships and all that. And I know that's important to talk about. But, like, what's more important for me is that I want to connect with people and, like, and then possibly help them.

I keep repeating myself. But that's what's going to, that's exactly what's going to happen. I think this is, this is the phase of your life. And I can see what it feels like to me is that you're out here trying to create your own identity, you know, separate from this juggernaut that you were a part of, but you're, but to stand on your own two legs. And, you know, one thing I think that's important for you to know about me is that, remember, when I met you, I didn't know that you were a part of. of that, Chuck Nortonard. And I loved you for you. Oh.

Every time I'd walk into Global, I'd say, oh, I hope I see Ashley. Oh, stop, really. Seriously. I would hit that floor. I'd be excited when I knew you were covering it as well. Yeah. I'd say, I hope I see her. It was the brightness in your smile, and then we always talked about something of depth and

of meaning. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think this is what you will be known for. What I just talked about. Really? Yes. Yes.

Yeah. I feel like I'm still like, that there might be a bigger purpose for me beyond what has existed. And that I feel like I'm stepping into that and that scared me a little bit, but also exciting me a little bit. Yes. So I'm kind of mixture of things going on. Yes. Well, I'm so excited to see. what the next chapter unveils for you.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Let's take a breath. And on a breath. And on a breath. Yes. Yes. What I find really interesting with a guest is when you just allow them to talk,

listen closely as to where they spend the most time. She spent the most time in references to her father in this entire conversation. And that lets you know typically who we value and love to a high degree. What is clear is Ashley is very respectful of this iconic group that she was a part of. So she doesn't want to say anything that we'll catch a headline because clearly if she says anything that's left, right or indifferent, it's going to catch a headline around the Pussycat dolls. But one thing that is obvious watching this conversation is that there was a lot of tension in that group around the structure of the group as she talked about and around her not being able to do all of the things that she wanted to do. You know, expression or freedom of expression. What's beautiful about where Ashley is now is that she,

is in what feels like the most stable part of her life, where she does have a partner who she feels safe with, and that can change your life, right? Where secondly is she talked about that schedule, which is very important in her work that allows her to have more control over her sleep, which is everything. And now she has these tools through breathwork. Ultimately, that's all we can ask for. You know, And that's what so many of us strive to have. So it's so beautiful to see that she has that now. Enjoy more ways to save at Ralph's, like low prices in every aisle.

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