We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Geordie Shore’s Holly Hagan Shares Final Hours Before Losing Sister Darci

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Geordie Shore star Holly Hagan opens up about fame, body image, motherhood, and the devastating loss of her 19-year-old sister in her most honest interview ever. Holly reflects on the pressures that shaped her on Geordie Shore, what pushed her into years of cosmetic surgery, and how grief has transformed her life forever. She shares the emotional final hours before losing her sister, how her family found meaning through organ donation, and why raising awareness has become her deepest purpose. Holly also reveals the hidden cost of reality-TV fame, the online abuse she endured, and the moment she realised she no longer recognised the person she had become. Now, as a mum and a coach, she’s using her platform to help women build confidence, understand their bodies, and regulate their emotions through her coaching work. Holly reveals: ◽ How fame magnified her anxiety and body image struggles ◽ The truth about working on Geordie Shore ◽ The heartbreaking final hours of her sister’s life ◽ How organ donation helped her family find meaning in the darkest moment ◽ Why becoming a mum shifted her priorities, patience and perspective ◽ How much she’s spent on cosmetic surgery and her plans for the future ◽ The intimacy rule that’s saved her marriage ◽ How emotional regulation transformed her mental health ◽ The mission behind her new coaching programme for mums Holly Hagan, We Need To Talk Content Warning: This conversation includes discussion of drug use and related experiences. If you or someone you know needs support, you can find resources here: FRANK: https://g2ul0.app.link/651mTy9qXYb What To Do In An Emergency: https://g2ul0.app.link/WjKmwV6qXYb NHS Organ Donation - Link to Register: https://g2ul0.app.link/gtfy87FcnYb Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod  (00:00) Intro (02:50) Holly Is Not a Geordie (03:53) How Holly’s Parents' Split Affected Her at Age 7 (06:55) Holly’s Experience of Bullying at School (10:21) The Persona Holly Developed as a Teenager (14:58) Partying Up North vs Down South (16:21) Holly’s Career Aspirations After School (20:17) How Holly Was Cast in *Geordie Shore* (24:35) Holly’s Experience Filming Season 1 of *Geordie Shore* (32:40) Why Holly Returned for Season 2 (34:58) Welfare Then vs Now in Reality TV (37:02) Geordie Shore's Popularity Peak in 2016 (38:07) Class in the UK and Reality TV Representation (40:43) Shopify Ad (41:46) Holly’s Relationship With Kyle From Geordie Shore (45:13) How Holly and Jacob Met (48:49) How Their First Child Affected Holly and Jacob’s Relationship (54:16) How Holly and Jacob Salvaged Their Relationship (58:33) Aura Frames Ad (59:35) Holly’s Relationship With Social Media Today (01:03:56) Surprise Letter From Sophie Kasaei (01:07:32) Holly’s Relationship With Her Sister Darci (01:09:50) Drug-Taking on Nights Out in the UK (01:10:53) The Events of the Night Darci Died (01:17:22) Darci’s Legacy Through Organ Donation (01:21:14) Drug-Related Death Statistics in the UK (01:22:06) Holly’s Advice After Losing Her Sister (01:24:58) Thoughts on Grieving a Loved One (01:29:31) Holly’s Self-Image and First Cosmetic Surgery at 18 (01:33:09) Holly’s Surgery History and How She Feels Today (01:41:31) Holly’s Retraining and Regulation Practices (01:47:55) Paul’s Takeaways Sponsored by: Shopify: https://www.shopify.co.uk/needtotalk  Aura Frames - https://auraframes.co.uk 'PAUL' for £35 off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. You're racing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie's sleep solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's O-L-L-L-Y.com. The screams of my mother in that hospital, I don't think I'll ever be able to wipe from my brain. You want to know the weirdest thing. Darcy had a tattoo under a rib seat. And it said, live what your heart finds life.

And that was the only organ that she was able to donate. In my teen years, I was very insecure. And I was just like craving attention off men. So I got a boob job at the second I turned 18. Trulwick, how much you think you've spent? Can we get into Jordy Short? I'm flirty. And I've got double F.

I had the first interview. They're like, yeah, so obviously you've got a boyfriend. I'm like, yeah, that's absolutely fine. He'll let me get with people, don't worry. Obviously, they were just rubbing their hands together thinking, this girl is nuts. Like, we need her. When I walked in that first time within like five minutes,

I'm like blackout drunk. I felt like I'd ruined my whole life. So why sign up for series two? I've always felt like something really bad was gonna happen. Could we talk about your sister? She wasn't an addict. She'd just had a night out. It just hits you every now and again, like, oh my god, my sister's dead.

We're not ashamed of her and we're not ashamed of the choice that she made and I want to use her experience to help other people. So let's say that you could go back to Holly at 18 and she's just been casted for Jordy Shore. What do you tell her? Hey there, before we get started, I just want to say a huge thank you for being here and watching the show. It's really one of the greatest honors of my career to have these conversations. Can I ask a small favor? hit the subscribe button please it's just one click it's completely free and it helps us grow the community the more we grow the bigger the guests we can bring on and the deeper the conversations we can have

thank you truly it means a lot Holly Hagen-Blythe we need to talk we do all right are you ready I'm ready all right I can't wait to go through your life in particular there's so many points of interest that I have and I want to to hear your opinion, especially the Jordy Shore show, which I find to be fascinating. Yeah. Because I was a Jersey Shore fan in the States. That's the same. I love Jersey Shore.

And do you know, I actually wrote a Facebook status in 2010 saying, oh, my God, Jersey Shore is amazing. I wish I could do something like that. I manifested getting on that show. You did. Because the year later, I was on it. Look at that. Look at that. All right.

So we're going to unpack all of the years. Yeah. And here's where I want to start. And it connects with Jordy Shore, I think, is that you were not a Jordy, are you? I'm not. Paul, do you realize how many issues this has caused me over the years? Like, the people from Newcastle was like, she's not a Jordy. She's a fake.

And then the people from my town, which was Middlesbrough was like, you know, pretending to be a Jordy? Why are you pretending to be a Jordy? So I'd be like, oh, I can't wait. I literally just applied for a show. I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing. So then, Jordy then would be considered what area? So I believe they're going to come free.

I believe to be classed as a Jordy, you have to be born five miles from the bank of the time. Oh, really? I think it's very specific, yeah. Oh, my goodness. It's very specific. However, there was a lot of people on there that also weren't Jordies, but because their accents aligned a little bit more, mine was very different. You might not be able to hear it because you're American.

However, if you are from that area, you will hear the very stark difference between Jordie, Sunderland and Middlesbrot. They're all very different accents. Ah, okay. Tell me about growing up. At seven, your parents split up. Split properly, yeah. Okay. And I want to give you something to help you to recollect.

Okay. Is it just so happens. Oh. Are you like psychic? Are you just like popping out pictures? So this is you. I believe at age seven. Oh my God, I was actually seven.

Okay. What's a green hair bandage? Just this doesn't really go with the outfit. You know, once again, Holly, I like that look. Ahead of the curve. Ahead of the curve. I like it. So at seven, your world changes.

Yeah. So if you can, describe what your world was like before it changed and after. I do feel like it was pretty much like going through your very first break off. and because you're so young, like it feels really deep. And because he was working away, he worked away in London, so we're miles away up north in Middlesbrough. So I didn't get to see him. I look back now, obviously, as a parent,

and I think, my poor mother, me coming home, this guy's left her, and I'm going to him and I'm coming home crying for my dad and she's like, I'm doing everything for her and, you know, you're crying over this man and she never ever made me feel like that. It was always comfort. But I do think that kind of set the tone as to where my life was going to go in terms of like men, attention, self-worth, self-esteem. And a bit of therapy probably could help that. Yeah.

From what I understand is this was a council estate that you lived. Yeah. And so I wasn't aware of council estates coming from estates. We call them projects. Yeah. But if you could describe what it was like, because I hear differing. opinions of what it was like to grow up on a council estate and how that impacted behaviors. So what was it like for you?

So I lived in a place called Grove Hill. And if anyone's from like the T-side area, though no Grove Hill is like not a place that you even wanted to step foot in. It was probably one of the most dangerous areas to live in at the time. I know they've like redeveloped it now. So I imagine it might be better now. But yeah, it was a very low-income area. It's weird because I don't know if at that age I really understood the danger.

But I think, you know, that could have probably not helped with the anxiety as well. My mom's there on her own as a young woman. And she doesn't really have any protection. Yes. So you're bringing up a very important point that I don't think we spent enough time thinking about with our childhood. Yeah. And that is that as a child, when we're going through traumatic events, sometimes we don't have the language to describe what it is.

is that's happening, but we know the feeling. So we take the emotion. And I would imagine the emotion is fear. Yeah. And so you don't exactly know why, but you just know, I feel fear. Yeah. I go into this house. I go into this neighborhood. I go into this area. I feel fear. Yeah. Perhaps these are underpinnings to this anxiety. 100%. What about school? What was that like for you? So school for me, I just remember not really enjoying it. I did have friends. I had I had like one best friend. She was called Laura. She was like brilliant.

She was also, her mother was my child minder as well. So that worked out really well. So I always had Laura, which was brilliant. But I did get bullied a little bit by a girl in that school as well. It was silly things. Like if you don't let me copy off your homework, I'm going to call the police on you. And you don't know five, that they can't do that. You've gone through a traumatic event at age seven with your father leaving.

you are in a context, in an environment that you don't always feel safe in. Your mother is doing her absolute best, though, in that. And then at school, it sounds like you don't feel safe. Yeah. What were some of those moments that you just can't forget? It was the last day of school in your 8. And I remember I had this white headband on, and I hugged this guy just saying goodbye. see you next year.

And his girlfriend saw and her and two other girls beat me up from like the bottom of the road to the top of the road. And I didn't know how to fight, not like I could fight three of them back anyway. There was pointless. But the whole school was watching

and I just remember every time getting up, straightening up this headband and carrying on walking because I just didn't know what else to do. I didn't fight back. But yeah, that was quite brutal because that summer holidays I just didn't want to leave the house

or be with my friends. We used to go out on the street. streets all the time. We'd get like a bottle of lambourini every now and then, which is like cheap wine. And I just couldn't do any of that that summer because I was so scared that I was going to get beat up again. Again, that moment though, it seems like what stands out to use not only physically what was happening to you. Yeah. But as you just mentioned, the fact that the entire school was watching. Yeah, it was embarrassing. And it's like, it's a lot of shame that comes with that. However, a lot of them did say, wow, you can really take a punch.

And that was like meant to be a good thing. So I actually got some like brownie points for the fact that I could take a beating and I wasn't like in tears. Yeah. Which is crazy. So when an incident like that happens, that also is trauma. Mm-hmm. Who do you tell? I mean, I had my best friend still.

I rang my stepdad. He drove me to the girl's house, dragged her out of her house and made her apologize. Oh, wow. Which was great. You know, I applaud him for that. that's what I'd do for my own child. But I was just going to make things worse. I didn't want to make anything worse.

I didn't want to. I never told the school anything that happened because you just get bullied for that. So you're very much stuck. Kids can't really rely on the school to protect you anyway and you have to just deal with it. But honestly, what I will say is like I genuinely feel like that built a lot of resilience in me.

And I do think that we go through things for a reason. I do think we get stronger from them. And I don't hold anything against them. Like, there were just kids, you know what I mean? But I do think that that did teach me prior to going into Jordy Shaw how to be resilient, how to deal with shit and how to move on from it. Wow, look at that. Are there any other moments that you think were pivotal in shaping who you've become now as an adult?

Oh, God. I think in my teen years, I was just very much like low self-esteem, very insecure. And I was just like craving attention off men. And I just wanted any kind of love. I thought that you got love from like sexual things. And if somebody did those things with you, then that was love. And I feel like a lot of that kind of shaped who I am now, which is very much the opposite. And it's funny because obviously we're jumping ahead a little bit now.

But when I got with my husband, everyone was like, how can you get with a girl from Jordy Shaw? Oh, wow. Because I've had sex on TV. You can't really, you know, that's a, you know what football locker rooms are like. You've got to be a very, very strong person to be able to put up with that level of banter. And he is, thankfully. And he'll laugh about it. But he's just like, she is the opposite of what you think.

Like, I don't have any reason to not trust her. Because everything that I did was, you know, I wasn't in a serious relationship. and some people I was seeing on the show. So yes, I was getting with them on the show because I was seeing them. And it's like, she is not the person that you think she is just because she's done things on TV. And he's done far worse than me.

It just wasn't on television. Look at that. Look at that. But it sounds like what you're saying, though, is that some of what you have done, some of this behavior was shaped going back to you being a young girl. Yeah.

And your need for attention from men. Yeah. I was very hypersexual. for just like, I'm not that person. And I look back down and I'm like, I didn't actually like doing that. And I used to tell people I like doing that and I didn't. I was just showing off and trying to get attention.

And I thought that was the way to get attention and get love and be liked. And, you know, you do these things. You be the party girl. You be the good time girl. Because people like that, boys like that. And actually, as I got older, it was like, oh, God. And now when I'm with my husband and he's like, you were just not like the person that you were on TV

and I'm like, I know because I'm comfortable with you. And I know I don't actually have to put on this performance that I used to have to put on with everyone else because I know you're going to love me regardless of that. I see. So did you, not to put words in your mouth, but it feels like what you're saying is that your childhood and the relationship that you had with other kids right at the school, it was so fractured that you became,

someone else in order to get the attention honestly I have gone through especially in Jordy Shaw might be jumping ahead a bit but I feel like we're kind of we're nearly that

I genuinely went into that show thinking I was confident that I was didn't care what anyone thought that I was just loud and outspoken and I came out of that

and I was like I don't know if I was I'm pretending. I think I'm pretending. I actually don't think that this is the real me. But how the hell are you supposed to tell? I didn't know how I was supposed to tell what's real and what isn't. What is real and what is fake. And I still feel that sometimes now in the things that I'm going through now, am I pretending that I'm okay or am I not okay? I don't know how to tell the difference because I've spent a lot of my time in my life masking and trying to put on this act and being somebody who I thought other people wanted to see rather than myself.

This is fair. And when would you say that began? I would say that began around age, secondary school. Okay. Yeah, secondary school. Okay. So this is what, like 15? Well, probably starting at like 1112.

11, 12. Yeah, and I think it just got progressively worse throughout the years, especially as you get into more like hormonal teen years and you're doing all the things and you want to be and you're putting on this act and then especially going into Jordy Shaw because I used to get so much abuse before Jordy Shaw anyway. I was known around town as being the party girl and I was banned out of the clubs for being in their underage and, you know, everybody knew who I was. Not for great reasons.

But also it was just this act that I was putting on to people that I was this confident, loud, crazy girl. And then it's like, oh my God, am I? Yeah, look at that And you were still partying Still partying Yeah, but you could go out for like a tenor Five nights a week

Five nights a week And that is no joke Like anyone from my area From that era Will tell you That you're part Can we spend a second Go on

On On partying up north Yes It feels like Now once again I'm new to the UK But it feels like Partying in the North

Is a whole different Thing Completely different So first is is how do you see it being different, especially then? What was a night out like? Yes. And why is it different?

Okay. The time that I realized the very stark difference between what happens on a night out in Newcastle or Middlesbrough and what happens on a night out in London, we had producers and most of our producers were from London. Okay. And we'd go on a night out. And they'd be happy to go on a night out

in like skinny jeans, boots, leather jacket. That was their attire to go out. whereas ours were sparkly dresses, full lashes and six-inch heel. And it was like, you just go at the club like that? And they're like, yes, we always go at the club. And it was just, that was the difference. Whereas they'd got like bars and things and, you know, probably be in for like two. We had a lot more of a like late party culture, I would say.

So what are you thinking career-wise and what you want to do? So at this point, I finish working at the tax office and I start working at a bank. So I was doing like the loans I was the customer service for the loans When we actually got asked This is so cringe When we got asked to We start work and you write a little blurb about yourself

So that other members of the team Can get to know you And I actually put on mine I'm only here till I get famous Wow I was honestly so cocky and obnoxious Like I genuinely thought in my head I'm going to be famous

I didn't know how but I was going to be famous But you thought you'd be famous. I knew. What was it about fame? Because a lot of people want to be famous. They do. What do you think it was about fame that lit you up so much? I just used to look at people like Katie Price in the press,

getting all of this attention with the big boobs and all the men wanted her. And I just thought that was what I wanted to be. And that's what I tried to be, just a less hot version back in the day. And I tried my absolute best to be this. that kind of like infamous person, I thought I wanted the attention. That was everything I ever wanted. Okay. And then I got it and I was like, oh shit, this is really bad.

Oh, this is interesting. But so truly at like 16, 17, Katie Price was the person that you looked up to. Yeah, absolutely. And it was because of the fact that she was getting, was it just attention or specifically attention from men? I think it was, I loved all of the outfits, like all of the little slutty dresses she'd wear and like the boobs. and everything was just out all the time. Like, I love that.

And I had never had the body for anything like that. So I kind of aspired to have a body that I could dress like that. I wanted to wear all of these fun outfits. And I thought that that was what men wanted and that was desirable. And that was my aim for a lot of years to just be this person that was desired. This is interesting. So during that period of time, were you in any relationships? were you dating?

Yes, so I had a boyfriend from being like 17, 18, so it was like the first season of Jolly Shaw had a boyfriend. And we were so young. Like we'd go on holiday and it'd be like, oh, we've got a free pass for holiday. Like that's how young we were. So you'd be like, you could do what you want on holiday, but then you come back and you're with me.

And it's like, it's just so young. Like you don't do that when you're in a proper relationship. Oh, well, some do. Like, you know, some people have open relationships. And I don't think we kind of, I kind of really thought that through too much. So when I went on Jordy Shaw and I'm sat in the interview, I'm like, yeah, I've got a boyfriend, but it'll let me get with people.

Like, it's fine. I just will have some boundaries there. I cross those boundaries. Oh, okay. Hold on. This is big. This is big. So you're saying, so you had a boyfriend when they were cast for Jordy Shore.

Okay, I didn't realize this. Yes. So even before then, was this a committed relationship? No. I feel like I was just a bit silly. I wanted attention anyway. So my poor boyfriend at the time, like he obviously had to deal with all of that

and the stress that came along with me getting with somebody else on TV and had my boobs out in the hot tub. Like, it's not really what you want from your girls. From your... But even before, though, you get to Georgie Short, it sounds like you were... I mean, quite honestly,

like, just to call it what it is, you were cheating on him. Yeah, well, openly. Openly. Yeah. So is an ethical non-monogamous relationship? So was he doing the same?

I don't think so. Honestly, I don't think he was. I think we might have said that he had a free pass when he went to like Iron App or something. But I honestly don't think he was. He wasn't really that type of person. Okay. I was. You were.

Okay. So you have a boyfriend at that time. Yeah. You're just out there. Yeah. But he's into you. Yeah. You're not into him as much.

I guess so. Actions. So then we. get into Jordy Shore. Of course. Because what I'm already, was already helping me, is understanding how you viewed yourself before going into Jordy Shore. Yeah.

Because I would imagine that is to a large degree how you showed up, Jordy Shore. So when was the first time that you heard about this show, Jordy Shore, and how were you cast it for it? So I, it was my boyfriend actually at the time. He saw an article in a newspaper. This is how old we are. It was in a newspaper and he was like, oh my God, they're doing this, like the Newcastle version of Jersey Shore.

And you have to like apply on Facebook. And I was like, oh, I'm not going to get it. Like, I'm not from Newcastle. I thought, oh, I'll just apply anyway. Why not? They rang me a couple of days later. On that phone call, I was like, yeah, we're like nine pairs of eyelashes and this is what I do on a weekend and blah, blah. You literally had nine pairs of eyelashes.

Nine pairs. That you would, what, one after another? One after, and then I wouldn't take them off for a month. Wow. Just leave them on. Okay. Not great hygiene. Okay.

All right. I'm like, I don't even wear a lash now. Oh, yeah, I'm just saying, I don't know. You had nine then. Nine. Every year you take one off. Literally. And they're like, the girls in the office want to know how you fit nine pairs of eyelashes on your eye.

And I'm like, well, I can show you if you want. And they're like, right, we want you to come down in Newcastle and come and interview with us face to face. I was like, amazing. I'll get the time off work. and my boyfriend at the time took me. And in this interview, they're like, yeah, so obviously you've got a boyfriend. I'm like, yeah, that's absolutely fine. He'll let me get with people. Don't worry.

We'll just have some boundaries. And they're like, what, you've got a boyfriend, but he'll let you go. I think, yeah, don't worry about it. Like, and the things that I was saying, I didn't realize at the time, but obviously they were just rubbing their hands together thinking, this girl is nuts. Like, we need her on TV. And I just thought, I'm not going to get it.

If there's somebody from Newcastle who's similar to me, they'll get it instead of me. And then they're like, oh, we need you to do some filming at this date. I didn't realize at the time, but I'd got down to like the very last few. She rings me back. She's like, what I'm about to tell you is confidential. I'm like, okay, anyone finds out about this. You will be replaced.

But welcome aboard you're on Jodie's show. And I was like, ah, I didn't really know what it meant for us at the time. But yeah, from that point I knew that I was going to be going away for six weeks in a house with other people. not getting paid for it and I was just going to go and have a laugh and that's all I thought about it and I took six weeks off work

from the call centre to do that. Who did you tell that day? I only told I think my boyfriend at the time and my mum because I was so terrified of it getting out. My mum didn't want to know she knew I was absolutely nuts

she did not want her daughter on TV doing the things that she knew I would be doing but any parent to have their child go on a reality TV short when there was no welfare involved you know, it's... But what did she know? Because that was...

So this is 2011. 11. Yeah. Right. So 2011, Jersey Shore, from what I remember, Jersey Shore in the States, that was the first show of its kind where it was not the first reality show, but the first kind of raw look at reality where you could see people drink, you could see people, you're seeing some nudity, you're seeing some, what you believe is sex happening.

but the other reality shows were not like that. So what was your mother thinking about what the show was going to be? And what were you actually thinking the show would be? So I was just thinking, well, the only reference we have is Jersey Shaw. So we were thinking it's just Jersey Shore, but the English version. So that's kind of the reference that I had in my head. Now, I don't think my mother was a watcher of Jersey Shore, but I think she was aware of it at the time. So she was just like, oh, God, the drinking, the party and like, that's going to be on TV.

MTV was such a big channel at the time. I couldn't comprehend it in my head that I'm going to be on this TV show and it's going to be shown not only in the UK but worldwide and we were going to be known worldwide and that I was going to be getting slagged off on Twitter in different languages. Okay.

So when the show was filming, at first it was six weeks. Yeah. Right? And so you know you're going to be in a home, in essence, for six weeks. You said you were intentionally last. Yeah. Why do you think that you were placed last?

Shock factor. I didn't look like the other girls. I didn't have that pretty image. They were all waiting for like a stunner to walk in and I'll happily say I was not somebody you would have crossed as a stunner at that time. I wasn't attractive to men at that point. And I had these big boobs, the leather glove on my hand with the studs, the black and blonde hair, the nine pairs of eyelashes,

concealer on my lips, no blush, like, it was a train wreck, honestly. It was, it's funny to look back at. But I genuinely thought I looked great and I came in with a bottle of Glens Vodka, which is like a really cheap make. And I was like, oh, I brought this for everyone, like just trying to be friends. And the second I walked in, the lads were just like, make sure she's not in our room. Like, so Vicky ran upstairs to make sure that she was in the boys' room because they didn't want to be in with me and I think it was in a room with Jay. And they'd already kind of all solidified a friendship it before I got there. Like Sophie and Charlotte were in the hot tub together.

The boys were doing their boy things. Vicky was like around the boys and I was kind of just this last surprise. What was your first impression of all of the, all of the, I keep saying contributors. What do you call them? You call them castmates. Yeah, I don't know, but should we call them friends? Yeah, more friends now that weren't then. See you what was your first impression of them?

Okay so first impression of the boys I'd never seen boys that looked like that These were like Newcastle boys Not like Middlesbrough boys There was a big difference in like Newcastle men And Middlesbrough men These would have like so tanned muscles Like low cut shirts

The Jesus necklaces Like all of that kind of stuff I just like was taking little bits of everyone else's personality to like try and fit in, I think, because I was just like putting on this really big front. And yeah, when I walked in that first time, they were like, Yeager bombs.

I'd never had a Yeager bomb before. I was like, yay! So I drank one. I was like, that's disgusting. And the boys were like, again, again. And yes, I could have said no. But honestly, in that situation, you're just trying to impress.

Like, you've just got on a TV show. So I'm necking these Jaeger bombs. And literally, I think within like five minutes, I'm like blackout drunk. Within, this is day one. Instant, yeah. You're blackout drunk. I'm blackout drunk.

I'm in the hot tub. I'm getting my boobs out. And don't get me wrong. Like, even with that, like, I would have done that at some point. Like, I definitely would have done that. That was just who I was at the time. So I'm not blaming anyone for that. But I do think, you know, that wouldn't be allowed now.

Right. And I think that just shows you that that wasn't really right then. But, you know, it made a really good show. And as much as I, you know, I did have a really crap time. that first series. Through faults of my own, you know, I cheated on my boyfriend. The people in the house judged me for it. I get it. Like, I completely get it. But the majority of them then went on to cheat on their partners in further series and they didn't get half the stick that I got for it. So kind of felt a little bit unfair in parts. But yeah, I understood why I got the hit. I wasn't being

myself. So I guess people couldn't gel with me. But I didn't know who myself was. I was still trying to figure that out. I think 18's really young to be on a TV show. And whilst I'm so grateful and I would never change it I do think that now I'm glad that they have the welfare that they don't really tend to put 18 year olds in those kind of situations anymore

because those decisions they do have an impact on the rest of your life and I've had to work really hard to get away from that image and it's been difficult. Yeah. What would you say your most challenging moment was in that first six weeks of filming? I think just feeling like the odd one out

like I felt like I never fit in. I felt like when the girls were dancing they'd have the backs to me. I felt like the boys just didn't even want to hear a word that I had to say because I wasn't attractive to them. And it just felt, it felt like everyone was so much older than me and they were. I didn't feel like I had a proper relationship with anyone. So that was quite difficult in the first season.

Yeah. I mean, I know the pressure of filming a television show. Yeah. And it's one of those where I feel like when you are filming a show, it's very important for you to have a safe space. a safe zone to go to. You know, that's why I say like the first show that I ever did here in the UK was Slebs Go Dating.

Yeah. And I will never forget Tom Reed Wilson, who's become one of my best friends, was my safe space. Yeah. And I can go and talk to him when we were not filming. Yeah. And we could just have, you know, I felt like I had someone who got my, who had my back. You need that.

And not only did he have my back off camera, but on camera. I saw that he was very helpful. For example, I remember being on camera trying to think of a word. And you know, you don't want that awkward pause. Oh, it's so awkward. It's terrible, right? It's terrible. And he would just say, oh, you mean empathy, right?

Or I'm sorry, he wouldn't even say, he would say, oh, you mean, and then he would cue me up, set me up. He was just such a great partner. Love that. I can't imagine walking into a scenario where you feel like you have no one. Yeah. So did you truly have no one? Yeah. I mean, Charlotte was there for me quite a lot and Sophie was.

It's hard to remember because honestly, I've blocked out a lot of that first series. I could never go back and watch that. I don't want to. I see people watching it now and they're like, oh my God, people treat you so awfully. And I'm like, people didn't say that at the time because the world's changed a lot since then. Yes. I get a lot more empathy now. Now, just to spend a moment on the fact that you have blocked it out, I think this is very interesting because many of our guests will talk about moments that.

they cannot recollect. Yeah. And I've even seen sometimes in the comments, people say, well, is that true? Like, do they really block it out? And I've actually done the research on it is we actually do. We do. You know, it is the technical term is memory fragmentation. Yeah.

Right. And it's this whole notion of when we're going through a traumatic experience and we move to a space of it's fight or flight and our body goes into survival mode. Yeah. what we end up doing is instead of recording these moments like a movie, we record it like a Polaroid, just snapshots. And we remember the feelings, but not the intricacies. 100%.

And I would imagine that's exactly how you feel. It's like the audience will remember more than me. I'm in the Reddit thread sometimes and I have a little nosy. And I'm like, how are you guys remembering all of that? And I can literally not remember a single thing of that time. But you've got to remember as well. We were doing like two, three, seasons a year at one point. So you imagine they all blend into one in the end. So we're drunk a lot

of the time. So your memory is hazy from that as well. So it's very much like, yeah, I did block out a lot of it. And I'm fine with that. I'm okay with leaving that where it was. And I don't regret doing anything that I wish I hadn't got my boobs out in the hot tub to be honest. That was my big regret. Just because it went on the front page for all the papers. Did it? And because the lights were shining on them. it looked like I had no nipples. So then there was a Facebook group made about me saying when you try and breastfeed but realize you're all the hearing.

Are you serious? I'm serious. I can laugh about it now, but back then I was like, oh God, everyone thinks I've got like onion boobs. This is, but so hot,

this is what I want to know. It sounds like the first series from your lived experience was a disaster. A disaster. I quit. Oh, you did? First series.

Wait. The first series, I literally walked out. I was like, I'm never doing that again. I'm moving to Spain. I'm changing my name. Like,

genuinely I felt like I'd ruined my whole life. So why sign up for series two? Okay, so the producers rang me and they were like, Holly, we've been commissioned for a summer special. I said, no, not going anywhere near those people again. I hate myself. I hate everyone. Like, we're not doing it.

And they were like, it's three days in Magaloff. You have the opportunity right now to rewrite your story, to come back and to show them who you really are. we will, I used to have red hair. Okay. And they were like, we'll dye your hair red. You can go in with a completely new image. You can go in first.

It'll be a completely new look for you. This is like your redemption. My redemption, yeah. And I was like, guys, you're going to have to let me think about it. Because I just don't think I can put myself through that again. I decided to put myself through that again. And I'm terrified still. But I go.

And I just try and keep. in the background I don't get involved with much but it's the first time that I like take my makeup off on camera I take the lashes off I start to strip back a little bit and that's only because of Charlotte and Sophie like if I didn't have them they made me realize that it's okay to be yourself and that you you can not look your best in front of boys and it's okay like you still doesn't mean that it doesn't mean anything you can just be you and they taught me that and I started like not wearing makeup. I was like, oh, you're so pretty

without your eyelashes and you look so much better and they started building my confidence a lot in that series. And that series was fine. It was three days and I feel like,

you know what, this is actually okay. And then I think it wasn't until when did we do series two? A couple of months later and then they were like, we've got series two back in the house for six weeks.

It was the first time I started really finding my voice and sticking up for myself with me. I'm sure. Was that series two or series three? This is series two. So we had the summer special A little mini special.

Okay, so it's not a full series. It's not a full series. It's not a full series. It's hard to find, actually. No one can really find it. It's like the lost series. And then we went on to do a full series too. Okay.

And this is when I started to find my voice to actually stick up for myself, to say the things that I wanted to say without the fear that I was going to not be liked or whatever. And I did actually have a really good series. And I started warming to everyone. They started warming to me. And I started to actually build friendships with these people. But then, and then especially, so when I say then, is 2011, 2012.

Yeah. You're also new to TV. Everyone, I think everyone in that cast, that original cast, was new. Yeah. How much of what was happening was based on your desire to please? Oh, good question. So back in the early days, I would say that there was a lot of kind of scenarios that wouldn't be allowed now. but I remember vague

not vaguely I remember specifically being told this is the last episode nobody remembers the rest of the series you need to go out with a bang now this guy didn't want to get with me that I should have just said no at that point but I think because we were so scared

about losing our jobs and losing our positions because we were always told there is a queue of people to take your place and there was at that time there really was everyone was desperate to be on the shore and we fully believed that we were replaceable we weren't I know now that we weren't

but we felt like we were and in that scenario what did you end up doing I went in and tried my absolute best and tried to do what they wanted me to do which was which was getting to bed with him and try and get with him and I mentally should have left and went home they put me in a hotel with no form

and just kept me there when I wanted to go home that wouldn't be allowed now no really wouldn't. And when I think back, I'm like, God, you poo a girl, like, you're going through all that shit. You've been put in a hotel room on your own in the middle of Greece, I think we were in. There was a point where I literally, I think I stole my passport from production and tried to run down the pier to find a boat with an English flag. I was drunk. Just let me leave. But they didn't. And obviously, everything blew up because of that. And it's just, yeah.

I mean, again, it made great TV. So it's like, what can I, what can I say? But it was so draining. Now, at its peak in 2016, you were on the show in 2016. All right, Jordy Shore had over 1.2 million regular viewers, which means on catch-up, et cetera, it becomes much bigger than that. And what I've noticed about Jordy Shore is that it's one of those brands that everyone knows. Yeah. Everyone knows it. But now, this is a more controversial take. And I've never heard this ever discussed. But I want to discuss it with this. Let's discuss it.

Is when I got to the UK, so 2018, I got to the UK, the first kind of societal thing, for lack of better word, that I discovered was class. Yes. Classism here is on another level than classism in the United States. Really? It's another level. That's interesting. And I then became very observant on class. And I noticed even on commercials in the UK where any time they wanted to present, say, an individual that wasn't as sharp, was a bit aloof, they would have a northern accent.

Northern, of course. If they were smarter, they would have a non-north. British, Queen's English. Yes, yes, accent. So that was the first kind of my first take. Yeah. Then as time went on, I've noticed that, or should I say, as time went on, started having conversations with different people.

And what I was beginning to hear was that classism really played a strong role in television. Yeah. What's your take on classism, television, and Jordy Shore? I completely agree with what. you've said and I think we're just so used to it that it just seems completely normal for us to you know hear a northern person it's something that's going to the working class like that not northerners are considered working class we have accents that are considered working class which is crazy because you can have all classes in with northern accents but your accent really does kind of give it away

a lot of the time and it's kind of you do get judged on it if you listen to my voice in series one to now you will not think that it's the same person I have worked very

especially the Middlesborough accent because again known for being I don't want to offend anyone but it's known for being a bit thick and you know we don't say our words properly

and I've had to work really hard to actually speak properly because I would get judged so much for just sounding thick or I'd never want to do TV appearances because I was like oh I just sound really really thick and I don't sound how I should.

And I think as you get older as well, you do just want to speak a little bit better and you do, you know, you're not trying to impress your friends that you're around and things and being a bit chavvy. But yeah, I completely agree, especially with Jordie Shaw, like we were tailored to the working class. We were tailored to these students who were going out every weekend who were in Newcastle uni at the time and, you know, they were looking for that party experience. And I think a lot of people related to.

to us so much. But I think people from like all backgrounds actually secretly enjoyed it as well. Yes. But it seemed like there was a very distinct difference between Jordie, Chelsea and Towie. Jordy Shaw, you would put on the lower end of the spectrum of like class and then you'd go Towie and then you'd go Chelsea. Interesting. You know that feeling when you've just committed to starting something big and then it hits you. How am I going to pull this off? When I started my matchmaking business, I remember sitting at the kitchen counter one night with my computer and 15 tabs open trying to figure out how I should market and sell our services. It was pretty overwhelming, and that continued for a lot of the first year. And I look back now and think if I'd

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dot UK slash need to talk. So you had a boyfriend when you go on to Jordy Shore. That doesn't necessarily work out. Where would you say the next committed relationship was for you? Next committed relationship was a guy from the shore. His name was Kyle. And we got together in, oh God, season eight, I think. Had you been in a healthy relationship?

Never. Ever. I hadn't seen one in my home because my parents split up young. I hadn't seen my grandparents were split up. All that kind of stuff. I'd never seen a happy relationship. I didn't have an example. So all I was seeing was things like on stop, so like, you know, on TV and they all were very similar and dramatized in the same way that my relationship with him was.

Interesting. Interesting. So with Kyle ignored, Redflex. Yeah. And you stayed. Yeah. So how did you two end up breaking up? From my point of view, women tend to get over a relationship while they're still in it. So at this point, we've broken up a few times, but I was actually getting like to the point of where I was sick of it now. And I just want to. time away and that wasn't like me. I wanted to be attached to his hip. I, if he wasn't cuddling me in bed, I'd cry. Like, this is how low self-worth and how desperate I was just for any type of affection. And, you know, when you allow yourself, when you allow yourself to be treated a certain way, people will take liberties and they will treat you in that way. And yeah, eventually he message me and he was just like, I want to break up, I don't, I can't do this anymore. And I remember I was in the car and I think I was driving home from a boot camp. And I bought the Little Mix album

that had like, um, shout out to my ex, you know that one. So I listened to that album on the way home and I swear to God, by the time I got out that car five hours later, I was over it. Because I was like, I just felt like I'd got all of this power and people are laugh about him, but like, oh, little mix and I'm like if you listen to that album when you are going through a breakup I promise you you will you will come out of that just feeling so much stronger and I didn't said shed a single to you you didn't because I'd shed so many in the relationship that I was just done and the the actual weight that I felt lifted off my shoulders was I can't describe it it felt like I was finally free and it took such a long time to get there like three years and I don't know how much longer I would have stayed in

that relationship but I'm so thankfully just made that decision. to cut it off at that point. But you know what? There's not a single part of me that regrets that relationship because that taught me everything that I didn't want and it taught me about self-worth that I'd never had in my life and it taught me about what I bring to the table, who I am as a person, like everything that I just didn't know before and then as soon as I left that I just felt like I was the happiest I'd ever been in my life. And then I met my husband literally. four months late. And I'm like, I'm going to be single for four years.

And this is going to be amazing. And I'm so happy. And I was traveling. I was going to Thailand on my own. I was doing the little boot camps. And honestly, you know, some people say, oh, I fell in love and he made me so happy. That's not how this went. I was so happy.

And that is the reason I found Jacob. Interesting. And I had such strong boundaries from the get-go that he has never disrespected me. You know what? I think there's so many phenomenal takeaways. from what you just said. But I think one of the biggest ones that's staying with me is this whole notion of you feeling complete

before you enter the relationship with Jacob, your husband. I needed that. Yes. And you couldn't just think if you were not in that space, what that could have done. 100%. But now also, your husband at the time that you met, he's a footballer.

He's a professional football player. There's a stigma that comes with that. You are reality TV star? Yeah. There's a stigma that comes with that. Yeah. So how did you deal with, you know, what society and the press were saying? Oh, I mean, in the beginning, it was, you know, he got a lot of banter, like I say, in the locker rooms. He is a very, very laid back person, so laid back he'd fall over. And I need that.

I'm a bit of a hothead. So I need that balance between somebody who's just going to be able to take my snappiness. And I do work on it. My mom's very snappy. And I try my best to not be as snappy. She'll listen to this as well. I'd be like, holly. And then I had to deal with. with his side like you know he's a footballer I learned a lot about his past like from his friends and stuff and because he had also had a past and experienced that he'd also cheated

on partners and trep them like shit and in his previous relationship he was in a very much similar relationship to me and Kyle but on the opposite end so he'd learnt from that he'd been with her three years broke up at the exact same time I'd been with him three years broke up at the exact same

time randomly and I got an opportunity to get a flight out to Ibiza with these people I'd met once. I got on the flight. Two days later, I met Jacob, who was a friend of the group. I just thought he was funny. Like, I'm not a flirty person, really. As much as I tried to in Jodie Shaw, I'm not a flirty person. It's not my personality. So I just thought he was dead funny, and I'm friends with boys, so it's not uncommon for me to just like want to be your mate. And it was only after that trip that we started texting and getting a bit flirting,

and now we're married. Look at that. But how did you? know because I think this is a question that so many people have is you're in a relationship and you're trying to figure out is this good for me is this right how did you know it's hard to think back to that time because it was nine years ago now it was such a long time but I think just the way that he was like his personality his humor how he never every boy that I'd been with had always kind of had like sly digs and kind of tried to put me down and he was just like listen I'm not going anywhere.

Like, I'm going to be here and you just, you take as long as you need to bring you walls down, but this is who I am. It took me a long time to believe that he was probably six months to believe that he was actually like this good of a person. I'd never met anyone like that before. But I think it was just through him showing me who he was and just holding space for me and who I was and just not being judgmental. Because every person I'd ever been with had some kind of judgment towards me. and he never had a single ounce. Look at that.

Which was great. Look at that. Yeah. It's so beautiful. Yeah. I think it's so beautiful when someone will hold space for you. 100%. And when they will do it consistently.

Especially as a 24 year old boy. Like we're 24 at this point. Like that's young in today's day and age when you think about relationships and things. He still could have been like, I want to go out and get with more people. I'm still in the football world. And he was just like, no, I've had my fun. Like, you're the one I want to. to give it up for and I was like same look at that so then he gave it up you gave it up

you guys became a team yeah you know um so can we talk about motherhood now this is why it rips the relationship apart you're a relationship expert I would have said to you that mine and jacob's relationship was perfect I'd argue till I was blue in the face that our relationship was perfect until we had a child and you you'd think we didn't have a child till six years into the relationship so we'd knew each other pretty well we'd live with each other all that time but when you have a child all of a sudden parts of you and parts of him that have never been seen before and never been shown start to creep out and it's like whoa hang on a second this isn't what i thought you were and i thought you had more

patience than this and him being the patient person that he was he started to be a bit more snappy when Alpha Jax was a newborn and I was like, whoa, you've changed. I started to be a bit more relaxed. I was the snappy one and I wasn't used to seeing it in him and honestly that first year was really tough.

Really, really tough because we had a difficult baby winged all the time and nothing could make him happy and bear in mind Jacob wasn't playing football because he was injured so he had no outlet. Me and him work from home

so we're stuck together all day. Yes. We have no help from family. and friends and he's not at nursery. So it's us, the baby, business, no one else. And that's it. And when you think back to some of the more trying moments, what were those? I think it's just the tiredness, the lack of sleep, the points scoring.

It's always who's done more, who's got up, who's more tired. And that goes on for such a long time. We were bickering all the time. And like he was raising his voice and he never raised his voice. And I'm shouting and he's matching my energy and I'm like, oh, I'm not used to. to this like this isn't this isn't right and i genuinely must have googled that first year am i too late to have postpartum depression like so many times because i heard that you had postpartum depression like in the early days and i was like i genuinely feel depressed it feels like

groundhog day and i don't know how we're ever going to get out of this we went from being attached to each other's bodies all day and like being so cuddly and affectionate i used to call him baby and then it was like oh i can't even i feel like i can't even call you these words anymore these like little things that we used to do just felt weird to do and I was like oh my god I just don't know if we're ever going to be able to get back to how we were we did eventually you did but but but you felt so you felt that way how do you believe he felt during that time oh god I think he was really struggling just through not having an outlet men need an outlet men need men to speak to at points and he just didn't have that um didn't have his family there

we didn't have any support. And I think he was just like, what have we got ourselves into? It was just really hard. Like, we were ready to have kids. But no one can prepare you for the huge life change that it is to have a child when you've been on your own for so long

and when all of a sudden, everything is about this child and not about you. And I think he felt quite probably rejected and lonely at that point as well because all my energy was going to, like, loving Alpha Jacks. And I was struggling to split my love. I felt like I had no affection left for him by the end of the day

so there was none for that whole first year we just were not affectionate at all and it was like oh god I hope we can actually come out of this and thankfully we did were there moments in that first year that you thought you may not come out of this honestly

like I hate to admit it but yeah I thought if we don't get out of this we're going to end up splitting up and that is the I chose a very good man for my child I made sure of it after everything that I went through of not having a father in my life I wanted to make damn sure that the man that I chose

was going to be a fucking incredible father and if I don't do anything else in this life I know I chose a great father for my son but I wanted us to be together as a family and I feel like there was points in that where I was like oh my God we're married I was thinking about what happens if we divorce who gets what do I live in the house

where does he go like if he has the child when do I have the child I did think about all those things, and I hate to admit that I did think those. And I'm glad that it didn't come to that. But I can see why a lot of relationships fail in that first year after having a baby. I feel like that is a fact, isn't it? Oh, it is, I mean, you're speaking all facts. Yeah.

Quite honestly. Even that note about women knowing that they start to get over their breakup before. I was like, wow, she's on top. That could be a relationship. Maybe on celebs go dating next time. I'll be an expert. Pull up a chair, Holly. Pull up a chair.

But absolutely, you see a large breakup rate. You see a heavy dissatisfaction rate in the relationship. And you're right. You're trying to split times. You're tired. Resources, drain. You know, you also mentioned a factor that ends up being one of the largest reasons why people break up. And that is, is that you don't have the support of your family and friends.

100%. So it sounds like you both didn't have community. We didn't have that village that everyone speaks about. it's our fault because we chose he lived in Nunneton, I lived in Middlesbrough we met in the middle which is Manchester and once we had nursery we were able to get back into work get our time back

but honestly it took it took two years what was the pivotal thing to happen to put you two back on course to be together stronger I think as Alpha Jack started getting older and speaking and started to get a lot easier and started to actually

give us back a lot in terms of lovingness and like just being what you expect a child to be I know this is a weird thing to say but it's like we felt robbed of the experience of the stage that everyone's like

oh we love the six month old take them on holiday they're amazing hours mourned the whole time and screamed the plane down like we didn't have that experience so when we actually started getting this amazing experience when he turned two

which is meant to be the terrible twos I mean there probably could be if you had an easy baby but we, our perspective of it is that it's amazing right now. And I think once he hit kind of 18 months to two years, it started just, we had more time together.

We started prioritising each other a bit more. We started making a point of saying, I love you when I leave the house, which we'd stop doing. There you go. But you have to make an actual point of doing this and not just let it slide and actually have the conversations about it

because I was like, we've stopped saying love you and when we leave the house now do you think we should start saying it again? And it's just this awkward conversation that you probably need a therapist for to tell you, like, maybe you should start doing that again. And I think we've been quite good at communicating our needs

and what we do need. He wasn't getting the intimacy that you wanted. I, as a woman, my hormones are just that part of me. I wish I could have a bit of that hypersexual girl back again because Jacob would be pleased. But for me, I'm just like, I couldn't think of anything worse. Like, I just got so much stress on. But we did come to an agreement.

And it's like, from what I've read, A lot of women need to kind of get into it to then be like at the end, oh, that was actually great. Why don't we do that more often? But it's that saying yes to it that's painful and you're like, oh, I really don't want to. But once you actually do and you just make a point of doing that, you then have that intimacy again and it is great,

but you do have to make time for that. And unfortunately, it is unsexy to have to schedule time in your diary. But as a parent and business owner, you have to do that. So Wednesdays are great for you. Can I say? Can I say? In that book behind you that I wrote called Keep Love. I have a full chapter on scheduling sex.

And there's a prevailing myth that scheduling sex is the least sexy thing that you can do. Yeah. But yet couples who schedule sex end up having higher satisfaction. And you just succinctly describe the reason why. 100%. Yeah. And then all. Also, I think what was happening between the two of you is that as you become emotionally closer,

then there's a higher desire to want to even have any kind of physical connection with your partner. Yeah. Now, would you say that you land in a place where you're stronger than where you began with your marriage? 100%. I think because, you know, in those early days, you haven't gone through too much. We've gone through so much now that it's like if we can get through that, we can get through anything. and I strongly believe now like yes we're going to have another baby yes it's going to be difficult but I know the things that we need to do now to make sure that we don't let it slip as much as we did

last time and also I know that I'm not going to have the thoughts of are we going to split up because we've done it before we've got through it and if we've got through that first time of course we can get through it again and I used to say like oh relationships are dead easy like when when they're meant to be once you have a child they're not and you do have to fight to stay in them and you do have to do certain things and compromise. And I think it is all about compromise in a relationship and just knowing that it does feel tough sometimes and it does feel crap to compromise on things you don't want to compromise on. And especially when I think I'm in the right all the time. And he lets me get away with it a lot. But it's just, you know, now I don't ever think we will ever split up. I know

we'll be able to get through everything. I have something really exciting to share with today. Paul? Yes. Okay, cameras over here. I know, but this is just, this is the gift that you gave me, right? You and the team. This is my Carver, Matt, ORAFRAMRAE from our sponsor, and I love it. I can't help but look at it.

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Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. How is your relationship with social media today? because it's interesting. You went from a place of basically you wanted to be... Oh, wanted everything. You wanted it all.

You wanted the fame. So you definitely wanted a massive social media following. I was looking at the numbers and I was like, oh my gosh, my Holly's out here. Four million people follow you on Instagram, half a million on TikTok, basically a million on Facebook, over a million on X. So you're widely followed. I see that many of the things that you do make. the news, makes the press. Annoyingly.

If you sneeze. It's in the news. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's. I said I had a club, I, I liked club biscuits a bit too much. And they said, Holly Hagan's battling a 33-year addiction. That was the headline. Oh, really? It was club biscuits.

It's club biscuits. Yeah. See, look at this. So, so the attention is on you. Yeah. How do you manage your, like, and let's look at, you know, motherhood. Yeah. And your marriage.

Yeah. How do you manage that now, not wanting. the attention. It's really hard because to get the brand deals and to get, you know, work, you do have to be out there as a public figure. So my aim is eventually to just have my business take off and be super successful and to not have to rely on, you know, kind of social media for that. It's only really been in the past year that I've really started to open up again a little bit more. In the beginning, I didn't share my son on social media. I was just really scared about like trolls and things and, you know, I've slowly got over the...

that and I was just like now I do share him a little bit on social media and I'm happy with that and comfortable but it's hard like you know you don't know who's out there and you don't know what people are going to say and what affects me is that when I get one bad comment in like a hundred my whole day is ruined because now I'm like arguing back with this comment especially if it's something to do with my business that's untrue or about me being unqualified or about me being misleading. I then feel like I have to argue my case because that's a public comment. I don't want to delete the comment. You have your right to an opinion, but it doesn't mean your opinion's fact. And then I feel like I have to spend the entire day defending myself. Yeah, so it still

gets to you, negative comments. Oh, 100%. I'd be lying if I said that it didn't. 100%. I'm still, everyone's like, oh, just ignore it. And it's like, I can't. Yeah. Do you look for them? I don't tend to look for them, although I am in Reddit threads, so you would say that I probably do. But the Reddit threads are actually quite nice nowadays, which is nice, since it's like an anonymous place to be. They are actually, like, pretty nice now, to be honest. I don't tend to go looking for hate.

I don't go on that tattle life where, you know, that is a hate site. I've never been on there. I've never searched my name. I do look in the comments on the Daily Mail sometimes. Do you? Yeah. Do you? I want to really punch myself.

in the gut that day. Yeah, then you do. And I do. And it's like, you know, I was scared of coming on here today because none of my clothes fit me. It's the first time I'm being away from home since we've had something quite traumatic happen. And I haven't got a lot of makeup on. My skin's spotty. And I'm just like, my hair extensions are falling out.

And I'm like, someone's going to pick up on something and they're going to say that I look awful or whatever. And I was like, do you know what? My words are more important than how I look. and me being here and speaking to you, like I am so grateful to be able to do that and have our luck is and should be the least important thing about me. But unfortunately, as a woman,

it does get picked up on quite a lot. Yeah, well, I think it's important for everyone to know this from my perspective. This is the first time that we've met. I think you look fabulous. Thank you. True, I'm not just saying that. Thank you.

I think you do. And I think it's one of those where I was so excited to talk to you for so many reasons. And I'm getting so much clarity on who. who you are, you know, and what your belief system is and what you value. And I can see that you stand for truth and that you have, what you've done is you've now created a village of people around you who love and adore you.

And on that note, I have a surprise for you. Oh, God, go on. You're ready for this? What is that? I'm a bit scared. Oh. I would love for you to read this. That's posh writing.

That is, that is. Oh, it's posh pay. It's expensive this, isn't it? It is, it is. Okay. My amazing friend slash sister, Holly Hager, only we can understand the memories made and the life we had over these crazy 16 years.

I know your journey was never the easiest or simplest, but you've navigated your journey like no other could. Your early days of Jordy Shaw were tough, but we always had each other's back and support. We are a sisterhood, no others could be. We have guided and been there for one another on all paths of life through loss, heartbreak, love and motherhood. You've shown not only yourself, but the whole nation,

how a girl who was so misunderstood can be exactly who she wants to be. Oh, God, why'd you do this to be? Beautiful letter. And that, my darling, you have. You have grown into the most loyal, loving, witty, yet beautiful. person I have ever met. You make me proud to call you a friend, a sister and an amazing therapist who always gives me the best advice because of course you're always right. I did tell you that earlier, didn't you? You carry yourself with dignity and grace and the way you've fallen into being the best

mother and loving wife with your beautiful family. This year hasn't been the easiest. This year hasn't been the easiest, I know. But again, the way you show up and put a brave face on for your family. Oh, God's so! and take on the world when I know you're hurting inside too although I never thought it was possible it has made you look up to me even more I'm glad I wore my waterproof mascara to me my beautiful girl inside and out

thank you thank you for being the kindest human and showing me what true friendship is never stop being Holly Hagen as we know she is a true iconic queen Sophie that was a lot I didn't know you were going to do that to me Can I say, and I'll hold that, and I'll make sure that I give that to you, thank you.

So, that's from Sophie. It is. What do you think about that right now? Honestly, like, I just would not be where I am today without those girls. Like, if I didn't form that friendship in that show, I wouldn't have been able to get through it. And I would have left. There was so many times I wouldn't have come back. But every single time I came back, and I think they'll probably say the same as well.

every single time we made that decision to come back even if we didn't want to we did it for each other and we did it because we knew that when we went in that house we would have each other and honestly out of all of the friendships that you see on TV

I genuinely believe ours is the most genuine and the most strong and I'm so grateful to have it yeah I could see it and I think that this letter speaks to every bit of you absolutely that I've seen show up you know it's almost like you were

you know, a budding butterfly, you know, at 18, but you didn't yet have your wings. Yeah. And you have your wings now. I do. And I think what happens in life is that we are tested. Yeah. And pressure is applied to us. And I think it's so interesting when you look at your life is that as you matured, the tests

became harder and harder and harder. And you've reached a point now where this point. point in your life is you've probably been tested more than at any point in your life. Can we talk about your sister? We can. Okay. Tell me about first growing up. Okay. So we have a big age gap. So I never really got that like sisterliness that you get from having like a close sibling. We didn't get raised as sisters. We were, I was more like our auntie, I would say, in a way, because I just had, it was kind of like I was my mom's sister and I was like an extra mother to her. Yes, yes. And also I would imagine that you're 13 when she was born. Yeah. But then just a few

years later, you're on. I'm on Jordy Shaw. So I'm actually only living at home. I moved out when she was nine. Wow. Wow. And I was on Jordy Shaw from when she was five. Obviously, I'd buy her everything she ever wanted and that's what I was. I was the money, the clothes. And because I lived away as well, it was difficult, like I didn't get to see her very often. But as soon as she turned 16, I was like, this is my time though. She's getting to the age where she's going to think I'm like cool. And she wants to like speak to me and hang out with me. So as soon as she turned 16, like I started reaching out and asking her about boys.

And she started messaging me about like boys and girls and, you know, the experiences that she was having. And she would come to me a hell of a lot with certain things that she couldn't tell my mom. And I kept every single one of her secrets. and I always will. Wow. So it's almost like she had two moms in a way. She had a cool mom and then she had a real mom.

Yeah, yeah, which I would imagine was such a blessing for her. I hope so. You know, to have. Yeah. And as she got older before she went to secondary school, my mom did sit her down and say like, look, Dassie, this is what Holly does. This is the things that the girls at school might say to you, and they did. This is just what you need to be aware of.

So she didn't actually, she lived with it and still wasn't aware of it. until she was like 11 until we made her aware of it. Interesting. She'd never watched the shot. And then it got to the point of her leaving secondary school and it was like, right, now I need to have the conversations that you have before they start going out on nights out. And we live in an area that is very common to take drugs on a night out.

So as soon as she turned 16, I had the conversation with her because honestly, in our area, it is more uncommon to find someone who hasn't took a drug than it would be to find someone who hasn't took a drug than it would be to find someone who has. Wow. And what age would you say kids are beginning to take? 17, 18. Okay.

Yeah. And also, too, is when we talk about drugs, I think what's, what people often confuse is that the types of drugs that we are using as a society over the years are changing drastically. 100%. So you have this conversation with her. And what's her response?

She's just like, yeah, don't be stupid. I'm not even thinking about anything like that. because she was 16 at the time. As she did get older, she did start letting me know when she'd had experiences with certain things. And my mum had let me know once that she had, I'm taking an amount of a pill, I'm not sure, and she had a bit of a bad experience on it.

They rang an ambulance and it wasn't a good time. But she was okay. And I just want it to be known as well. Like, we're not ashamed of her. And we're not ashamed of the choice that she made because so many people do it. This night, she was going to wear her. Project in Manchester, which she loved.

She was going with her best friend, who she's been best friends with since she was six years old. And my stepdad, the man that he is, drove her from Middlesbrough to Manchester, because that's the type of dad that he is. And he wanted to see my son as well, because my son, Alfa Jackson, is obsessed with his granddad John. For some reason that night, and I don't know why I didn't, and I wish I'd have messaged her, because I know what warehouse project is. and I just don't know why I didn't think

to message her and say, what are you doing tonight? Tell me what you're doing. Like, let me help guide you because for some reason this night she decided to order not a pill but powdered MDMA. And as far as me speaking to her friends,

everyone she knows, this is the first time she'd ever taken that. Okay. So she'd went out this night and she had had like one alcoholic drink and then from what her friend said, she poured an amount from the bag into her drink. Now that to me rings a red flag anyway because it's like you've poured it,

you've poured crystals into your drink. So we have no idea how much and obviously it was too much. So she's poured an amount into a drink. And she's dancing, she's okay but then she throws her. So she's threw up in the crowd. And at this point she's like shaking. A guy that she's seeing's there, so he takes her outside with his friend. And they sit outside with her.

they get her two bottles of fresh water, she throws her drink away, the rest of it. She's apologising because she's worried that she's ruined everyone's night. And they're like, don't be daft, it's fine, it happens. And they wait with her until she feels okay again. And she does. She makes a few dancing videos apparently. She brushes her hair and she's okay. And I've heard from the guy that she was seeing that he made sure that she was okay

before you let her kind of go back into the crowd again. She starts getting really paranoid. so she's not recognising people she's screaming as if she's being attacked and the next thing you know she has collapsed at the bar there was 11 medical staff and two ambulances there

waiting for her and they were with her within a minute so they did absolutely everything they could so her best friend has gone outside he has got the paramedics she's gone into cardiac arrest they've got her back within a minute got her straight in the ambulance and on the way to Manchester Royal Infirmary.

She was there probably less than seven minutes, like very quick. She went into cardiac arrest again in A&E, but they got her back with chest compressions. And then at that point, obviously they're realizing her temperature is sky high. Her muscles are all spasmin, which releases potassium, sodium, all of the stuff. Her kidneys are being poisoned. So all of that stuff's happening behind the scenes while they're just trying to keep her alive. so they've cooled her

they've put her on dialysis she's got all the tubes and obviously at this point I don't know any of this so I'm at home in bed my phone's on silent my poor mother gets a phone call at 2 o'clock in the morning you need to get to Manchester Royal Infirmary now

she doesn't drive she has to get a taxi on her own none of us are answering our phones because they're on silent my stepdad's phone's dead and and I eventually wake up to my stepdad knocking on my bedroom door and I thought, oh, my son must be awake and we've not heard him. I check my phone.

I've got a million miscalls and my heart just drops. I've got miscalls from the ambulance. I've got texts from the ambulance. I've got messages from my mom that I'm in my pajamas. We jump in the car and we drive half an hour. So I walk in. I said, do you let me walk in first. I'll let you know if it's okay if you used to come in.

Oh wow. You told this too to your parents? Yeah. I said, let me go first. And I can let you know. What can you let them know? It's going to be the most traumatic thing they've ever seen in their life.

So I walk in and this is the first time that I let myself break because I was like, oh my fucking God. She had tubes hooked up everywhere. It was honestly the most, the scariest thing I've ever seen in my whole life. I was an hours, and God, it gets to like 9pm that evening.

And we get took into a room and you can just see by their faces. And he's like, the swelling in our brain is so severe. We've never seen anyone come back from this. And I said, can you get a second opinion? Like, I'm the one with the question. So you've got my mom screaming in the way that you would have

and a mother be screaming, you'll have seen it on TV, like, it's the same. It's so traumatic. My stepdad's silent, as men usually do. And I'm asking all the questions. And honestly, Paul, I hate to say that I'm kind of glad that it was so final, because if there was degrees of brain damage and she would have had a terrible quality of life because of it, my parents wouldn't have coped. at that point

that meant ringing around all the family and I'm talking family members who we fell out with family members who we haven't seen in 10 years all of them made the journey two hours in the dark

to the hospital and we filled that relative's room at 2 o'clock in the morning even in that moment I would imagine you're making calls I'm doing two us two at the time to our bedside

being like right who's next Like I'm just, it feels so surreal to even understand and comprehend what I was doing. But just being like, right, who's next? Who wants to come next? Sitting her friends down, grabbing her hand, making her hold the hand, saying you can stroke her hair, tell her what you need to tell her. And then leave the room and get the next person. And I feel like that's the only way that I could cope at the time. It was the only control that I had. But the screams of my mother in that hospital, I don't think I'll ever be able to wipe from my brain.

I had a conversation with the transplant nurse and they started to look at whether she would be able to but they had to keep her stable. There was so many things that could happen and we eventually, we decided to go ahead and see if there was anything that, you know, could possibly help someone else. We were going to do that.

That conversation is a conversation that is, this whole ordeal is incredibly challenging, but then to have that particular conversation is one that is incredibly challenging. And we had Sam Vanderpump on talking about organ donation. And what I didn't realize was how few people, or I guess it's an opt-out system here in the UK. So most of the time, family members will opt their loved one out. Yes. I'll be really honest, it was a selfish decision.

we wanted her life to mean something we wanted to be able to say that she'd saved her life like that was for us that was to give us peace a lot of people like oh you're so selfless and brave we weren't we wanted her to have achieved this and for us to feel better because of it we found out by letter three weeks later that she did save her life

and that she saved the life of a woman and it was just such an honour to have been able to be a part of that as awful as the situation was. I'm so proud of her, and she's achieved more in her short 19 years than many others will achieve. And I'm so happy that, you know, the day that that woman got that call

will have been the happiest day of her life. And it was the worst day of ours, but something good came of it. And someone's children didn't have to lose their parent. because of Darcy. Yes. And you want to know the weirdest thing? Darcy had a tattoo under our ribs,

a sore on her heart. And it said, live where your heart finds life. And that's such a strange tattoo for a 19-year-old to get. Live where your heart finds life. And that was the only organ that she was able to donate.

And now hopefully she is living where our heart has found life. Wow, that gives me chills. Oh, wow. Honestly, there's so many. chills things I could tell you that have happened since, like, her passing. I think it's been so difficult to comprehend death, and I feel like it is, isn't it? For as human beings, we find it so difficult to comprehend that people have gone and that

they're not here. Yes. And I think that maybe the reason that we feel that is because they're not gone, that they are around. We just can't see them. Because otherwise, surely we'd be able to fathom it a bit more. In our many years of evolution, surely we'd be able to just accept death. and it would be like an easy thing for us

but I cannot accept that she's gone and maybe that is because she isn't and so many things have happened that have literally shown like spooky things that's like oh my God like I genuinely think she's still she's still around she's still somewhere and the fact though that we can't argue

that her heart is beating in this moment I know but I just want people to know you might have taken drugs in the past you might have been sensible. She was not reckless. She just made a silly mistake.

She poured an amount into her drink in a dark nightclub. And none of us, we haven't got the toxicology back. So listen, we don't know if it had anything else in it right now. It could have. We also don't know if there's a possibility someone put something in her drink. Yes. But I'm not going to sit here and work with facts that I don't know. You know, there's some statistics that I have here.

that I was not aware of, and this one may surprise you as well, is when you look at drug poisoning in particular, the stats are startling. So four in ten Britons say they have taken recreational drugs. From 1998 to 2018, there was a 441% increase in deaths from MDMA. right, ecstasy in England and Wales. And then this one blew me away. The number of people in the UK who die from drug poisoning has increased by 91% in the last 30 years. Jesus. So it's at a place where many people would say it's epidemic levels.

So when you reflect back, what advice do you have, having had this experience with your sister, What advice do you have to, you know, the young teens, young adults? It's really, really difficult to give advice. Obviously, I would say don't take drugs. But I think drugs, from what you said there, it seems that drugs are getting stronger. They're more important. And I can't even say go out and be sensible with them

because for every person that I spoke to, all of her friends she was, she was as sensible as she could be, but just know that every time you were taking a drug, you are risking your life. And that isn't a lie, it isn't blowing things out of proportion. And yes, it is, you know, maybe one in 10 or 20,000. I'm not sure on the actual numbers. I was obviously on chat GPT trying to work all that out.

But you are playing with fire every single time, and it is not worth it. You do not want to have to put your family and friends through what we went through because it affects so many people. My parents are out of work now. They're worried about when they have to go back. They're trying to figure out what they're going to do. The house that they once lived in that was busy and messy is silent.

And I promise you it is not worth it for that slight high that you're going to get. And, you know, people still won't listen. People will still go out and they'll still do it. But if it's happened to me, it can happen to anyone. If it's happened to my family, it can happen to anyone. it can happen to anyone. I found out I was pregnant. That was my last message to her.

And she was so excited. And on the way down in the car, she was like, if it's a girl, it's going to be my best friend because Alpha Jax is obsessed with Granddad John. That's her dad. And she was like, if this is a girl, this one's going to be my best friend and I'm going to be the best auntie.

She's, Alpha Jax is her screensaver on her phone. Like, she was the best auntie. And she was honestly the funniest. best girl. She was such a good friend. And yes, she may have been slightly naive, but what 19 year old isn't. And it does make me feel guilty for

getting everything I ever dreamed of, and she didn't even get a bloody chance to go and pass her driving test. She passed her theory, though, which she was so proud of. And honestly, all she wanted in life was to get a little car, go to Starbucks, get a match a latte,

and just sing her songs in a car. She wanted to get her teeth done and she wanted to go on Love Island. So my mom said to me, she went, I hope she's finding Caroline up there, and they're making their own little love island. And she really believes that she will. She said she'll hunt her dad. When I talk to people who have not lost someone, there almost seems to be this ignorance. There is.

On the appreciation of life. And not until you lose someone close, do you just realize how precious life is? and the decisions that you then make subsequently become different. And it's so different to losing like a grandparent because, you know, I hate to compare grief, but all types of grief are different for different people. Yes. And I think, you know, my nana's got stage four lung cancer.

She is my nana. You know, one day she is going to pass. And the grief that I'll have for her is like, oh, I'm so sad for the memories and I miss her so much. But the grief that I have for my sister, is guilt that she didn't get to live the life. It is sadness at the way that she died and we weren't there. It's all these different things of like,

and it just hits you every now and again, like, oh my God, my sister's dead. And that's the first time I've ever experienced loss. Every single day now, I'm just so grateful because life is not promised. And sometimes I don't know if I'm being strong or if I'm pretending to be strong, it's that same feeling that I had in the beginning of Jordy Shaw.

I'm like, am I actually a strong person? Am I just pretending? Like, am I masking or am I not? Like, I struggle with it a little bit sometimes. But actually, I do think I'm strong. I do think I'm a strong person. And I do think if we can get through this, we can get through absolutely anything

because touch wood. I won't go through anything this traumatic for a while. Hopefully the universe will give me a few years of, like, respite from it. But it's just been horrific. And now it's just watching my parents. And I think that's the hardest part. Journally. Yes.

Journaling has proven itself to be one of the most therapeutic strategies, if you will, to helping to heal from traumatic experiences, like the loss of a loved one. And that will also help in you not forgetting. 100%. Right. You will be able to actually crunch. chronicle all of these memories, all these moments. And what I find to be really interesting about you is that you should not doubt for one second that you are not strong. You should never,

ever, ever, ever doubt that. Because of the way that you've showed up in this moment, I think this is exactly what life does. Is life, I think, doesn't deliver us things unless we can bear the things. Yeah. That's my opinion. Yeah. You would not have been able to bear this five years ago. No. Six, seven, eight, ten years ago.

No. You wouldn't have been able to do. You were able to show up in such a loving way to your parents, to your extended family, but also to your sister. Yeah. And you should be proud of that. You should give yourself grace. You should also know that healing is a continuum. It doesn't just, you don't just wake up three months from now and you're healed.

I know, I wish I could. It doesn't happen. I often here on this pod, I talk about my best friend who passed away. In 2017, I'm still navigating it today. Reflecting on everything that you now have learned in life. How do you believe the new Holly as mom is going to show up? What is the new mom? How different will new mom be?

I think for me it's just about being a lot more relaxed and actually taking in the moments because it's so easy to just get lost in like the pressure of it all and the stress of it all and it is hard work raising kids like it's not easy but it's just finding those small moments to like cherish and hold on to and knowing that life isn't promised and that I can't just be like oh when you get to this age because you know something might happen god forbid but I think now that I know that life is so precious. It's just about making the most of every minute. And whether that's us just sat on the sofa,

watching telly all day and cuddling, or whether that's us out and about doing things or flying on holiday. It doesn't really matter what it is as long as we're having that connection. All right. If you've made it this far, I know you're loving the conversation.

So please do me one small favor. Hit that bell icon. Join our community. Series one, Holly, on Jordy Shore. You want to be famous. Yeah. You want to be Katie Price. Yeah.

In not only in attention, but in body. Yeah. So in terms of body image, what would you say your body image was at that time before Jordy Shore? Okay. So now we're getting into the surgeries. So I got a boob job the second I turned 18. I was in that office. Signing on the dotted line, crying to my mom saying, you need to be a guarantor for this loan because they won't give me a loan.

And I would imagine this is the first loan you've ever had in your life? I've ever had in my life, yeah. It's for the boobs because I was desperate and I just said put the biggest you can put in me and we'll go with that didn't research it

didn't know who the surgeon was really but I did get it done in the UK and it was from a reputable company also I thought so yeah body image not great I thought if I have these big boobs I'm going to get so much more attention

I'm going to love the attention it's going to make me look better because I was quite flat tested at the time I didn't realise as well obviously when you get big boobs you look a bit bigger that's just a natural thing you're making something bigger, you're going to look bigger.

And I wasn't a super slim girl at the time neither. I would always get called fat slag, whatever. But I thought, at least I could have boobs and look great. And they did look great for about two weeks until they dropped. And my nipples are pointing to the floor. And then I was just like, oh, I'm going to have to get these done again now because they just don't look great. And this is the terrible cycle of surgery that once you start,

you are never going to be able to start. So within two weeks of having that surgery, you were thinking of another. I was actually like, I mean, I'm probably being a bit dramatic with two weeks, but let's say a couple of months. Yeah, within a couple of months, once it's settled and dropped and gone into position, because I was like losing and gaining weight all the time and they were over the muscle, it just didn't have that support for them. So you've got this really heavy implant just essentially in skin. So gravity is going to take hold at some point.

And I was just like, oh, they really don't look great. And then it's like, I'm not going to be able to afford another boob job, so I'm just going to have to deal with them. So again, what I thought was going to solve my body image made it worse. And what size, because the size was, is it an FF? I went to a double F, yeah. I've never heard of a FF. I mean, Katie will be a lot bigger.

She'll be off the Richter scale. But yeah, I was a double F at the time. And I just, I loved it. I thought, I've got double F boobs. All the boys are going to fancy me. Yeah, I mean, double F is, that's something. I know. That's something.

So did all the boys fancy you? Oh, not really. I mean, they all wanted to have a touch of them, but I certainly don't think that that meant that they fancied me. But I did get a lot of attention from it. And I did enjoy that attention at the time. I thought that was the attention that I wanted. And at the time, I did enjoy that because that was what I was looking for from them.

And, you know, obviously I'd go home and, like, cry that nobody. actually wanted to be with me, but they did give me attention when we were out. They did want to have a kiss in the club and all that kind of stuff, but no one actually ever wanted to be with me properly. And I think that's what I wanted. Interesting. How does that, how do you reconcile that? You know, because it's interesting is that you have already described a life up until 18 where you're anxious, where you want, not just attention, you want to feel safe, you want to feel Yeah, I think that was definitely what I wanted, like, behind the scenes. Absolutely, you wanted that.

And then I went on to have multiple surgeries. Like, I then obviously got money when I went in Jordy Shore. And, you know, first series we didn't get paid. So we did that for kebabs and Yeagerbombs, which was fine at the time. But after that, from like series three, we started getting paid. And it's like, oh, I've got money. I can get surgeries. Like, Turkey's so cheap, all of these things.

And that's when it started to kind of snowball a bit more. so I did get the boobs done again. I think I went bigger. I think I went even bigger. You went bigger than double F? I think double F actually was probably the biggest I was. I think at that point I was maybe like, I completely I've got double Fs.

No, I had double Fs then. So I think what I did actually was I got them under the muscle. So I got the implants replaced, got them put under the muscle. And then I had another surgery later on to uplift the skin because you wanted to do it in two stages. And the second implants, because they were under the muscle, it still made me the same size,

but it just meant rather than, starting at a natural place. They were basically up to my collarboard. Wow. So they were just like really big but like a bit flatter and up to like they covered a larger surface area if that makes sense. Okay. Okay. So you had so how many breast enlargement reduction procedures have you had in total? I then went for the second one when I was maybe 20. Then I got to an age where I was like, I don't like this attention. It's negative attention.

I don't like the way that I look, this isn't me. So I went and had a reduction, I believe it was 2017, went down to like a DDD, and also had another uplift with that as well. And now I want to go after I've given birth, I'm going to go and get them out fully. Fully? Because it's just not me.

And that's not even touching on the BBLs. Like we've got more to talk about with the surgery. So there's BBLs in there. There's BBL. Plural. BBL's. Plural. But it just goes to shore when women are going and getting these surgeries very young

and they're saving up all of their money, that one surgery you might need correcting. And again and again, and you might not be happy. And that is why I advise anyone to just not do it. I mean, boobs is a little bit different. You can't grow your boobs, but you can grow your glutes. And obviously now being in fitness, I know how to do all that. I didn't know back then. I just wanted the easy way out.

I wanted to look like a Kardashian. I wanted to be desired and I thought that was the way to do it. So yeah, I've spent more than a house deposit to be able to look like a bag of jelly. In total, Holly, truly, how much you think you've spent? Well, if you've got calculated because that's probably like,

24, 34, 38, 39, 44, 42, 23.4, 45, 56, 56. Oh, God, I want to say near enough 60, 70, 60, 70,000 pounds. And now I want a factory reset. Look at that. And then also not only the 60 to 70,000 pounds, but also the danger, right? Oh, God. So I didn't realize this, but BBLs carry the highest risk of all cosmetic surgeries more than one death occurs per 4,000 procedures. Yeah. Also, in 2022, breast enlargement surgeries were the most popular type of cosmetic surgery in the UK. Also, a survey found that only 19% of women in the UK were satisfied with their body image compared to 26% of women who felt disgusted because of their body image. That's really interesting.

So today, where do you stand on cosmetic surgery? Listen, I had my eyelids chopped off not so long ago last year, so I'm still getting things done. Do you know what I mean? and I will still get surgeries as I get old. I want a facelift when I'm like, you know, when I need one. I will still do things like that. I'm not against surgery. I'm really not.

It's this weird line that it's like I don't really know where I sit on the kind of spectrum because I'm very much like I regret my BBL so much. And it was so dangerous. And I can't believe I ever risked my life in that way. But not only that, spent the amount of money that really like could have paid off my mortgage. Like that makes me feel ashamed and a bit sick that I ever did that. And, you know, I feel like now I want to get the boobs taken out. I want to get the BBL removed as much as possible. But again, they all come with risks. And I'm about to have two children. And I went and had a

conversation with my surgeon, who, the one who corrected me, who I was happy with after. And I was like, listen, like, tell me what the risks are because if it's any higher than a boob job, I don't want to do it. because there is an artery that runs in the buttock that is the dangerous thing. If anything happens to that, you are dead in an instant. There's nothing that can do. So I spoke to him and he was like, listen, we use ultrasound. We can see where everything is. Like, with me, your risk, because it's not a BBL,

because it's just removing that fat, it's not actually putting the fat in, the risk is a lot lower. But there's still a risk. There's a risk with every surgery. There's a risk with every general anesthetel. but for me to actually be happy in my body, I have to maintain quite a low body weight. And I get to a point and I'm like,

I'm happy at this point, but I can't maintain that. And I don't want to do the skinny jabs and I don't want to have to do all of that kind of stuff because somebody who is, you know, at the weight that I need to be, which is like nine and a half stone, that's not somebody who needs to be taking a bloody skinny pen.

But it's like how the hell do I maintain that long term and actually live a healthy, sustainable life in the fitness realm that I live in. Because as soon as I start gaining that weight, it goes straight to my bum and hips and it makes me look silly. And it's not my natural body shape. And you can tell that.

And it's very bloody obvious. And now that I'm pregnant, this is my most kind of insecure time. When I was last pregnant, I got trailed so much for the size of my bum and I'd just wear like big baggy shirts to cover it up. And it's like, yes, I do want to get to a point where I've had it taken out and I feel amazing.

And the boobs are out. and I'm just back to normal, or do I just live with the consequences of my actions? What do you do? And also, too, is I can see that you're reconciling now as a mom. Now as a wife. Yeah. That it's not just you putting yourself at risk.

Yeah. 100%. But I also want to look in the mirror and feel good and not feel like I'm looking at the mistake that I made in my past constantly every single day. And is that how you feel? That's how I feel. I can't even barely look in the mirror now because I'm just like, I just feel disgusted with it.

I think that we sometimes don't realize how much power and influence that public figures have. I know. Because even in this story, you know, we started with Katie Price. That's who you wanted to be. Then you wanted to be the Kardashians, right? Because they were more in vogue, more popular. And I would imagine that what ends up happening to so many, in particular, young women, is you'll see that. that Instagram photo or that TikTok photo and say,

I want to look like that. And that's the issue because you don't look like your Instagram pictures. Like if I was posting a picture, especially when it looked really bad, people could tell I had a BBL, but I'm posing at the right angles with the right outfit on. If they'd have seen me naked at that point, they would not want to book for a surgery. But I have to live with the fact that people have seen my journey and potentially gone and booked a surgery because of me. Like I have to live with that for the rest of my life.

The way that I try and make up for that now is by being in the fitness industry, is by putting the right message out there. I've promoted all the shit. I've done the skinny coffees. There's teas, the booties. Everything that people told me could make me lose weight. I've done them. I've promoted them.

And through a simple lack of education was the reason that I did that because I'm not being funny. If they're being sold in Holland and Barrett, how can they not work? Like that was my thought process. Interesting. And it's only as I got older that I was like, oh, so I was losing water weight. literally just water. It's not fat at all. And because now that I know more of your story, now I can see how you've ended up in this

business. So what is the business and why is it so important to you? Okay. So long story short, I found a trainer back in 2019 and I was just training for my wedding. And he honestly taught me like just the simple science of everything, which is all it is. It doesn't mean it's easy, but it is simple. And once I knew that, I was like, God, all of my years of Diet culture surgery might not have happened if I had just met him at that time. Then did nervous system regulation, which honestly... That's the one. This, I genuinely believe without me doing that course, I did it for the fat loss aspect

because I couldn't stay out of the fridge, couldn't stop eating biscuits, that was regulating me, the crunch, very regulating to me. Yes. If I didn't have that, I don't know if I would have got through the last. month of my life because I used those techniques in every aspect of what was going on with everything. And it's not just for fat loss. It is for life. It is to not be as reactive with your children. It's to not be as reactive with your partner. It's also when you can't get out of bed and you feel really depressed, like going from the opposite ends of the scale and going from, you know,

fight and freeze. Going through those different motions and never actually been in that window of regulation and having more, just more patience and using the breathwork techniques to be able to do that. And it sounds stupid, you know, breathwork, whatever. And I thought it was. But honestly, I wouldn't have got through the last month without that.

I utterly agree. Breath work, emotional regulation is some of the smartest work that we can do for ourselves. It's the hidden secret. It is. And it's like all of these people that I coach and they're like, I've never been able to stick at anything. I just feel like it's so hard.

Probably disregulated. Yes. More than likely, you're a mother. You're stressed. You are working as well. You've got, you're being the default parent. You're trying to remember your kids' sports day. You're trying to remember PE kit.

You've got gymnastics club. You've got to put food on the table. What we have in fatigue. All of these things. Busy, busy, busy, busy, busy all the time. Your mind does not get a chance to shut off and actually breathe. So at the moment, I'm creating a program, is called Team Fitley Mama.

And it basically, I've done like a little beta test last year with like a group coaching program. I've done the one-to-ones. And it's just kind of that middle ground between like an app, just where you go and do it on your own, but having access to me twice a month on group coaching calls. Okay. And listen, I'm the type of person who'll sit there for three hours until everyone's answered. Like, I believe it.

I get so much energy from it. I get so much gratification from it. I'm in that group every day. It's not some random admin. It's me. You know, Holly, I can see, this is your passion. You can tell I've lit up, you know, when I speak. Yeah.

I'm like. It's like, because when you're talking about fame, it was down here. Yeah. But this is, it lights you up. And I can see because of your lived experience. Yeah. Because you have learned and you've dedicated yourself to becoming an expert in the inquiry, right? And then on top of it, you see the benefit that it has.

It's life changing. It is. I can see throughout your stories that there are moments where you became. self-aware, but the actions didn't match. Yeah. But you're at a point now where you are not only self-aware, but the actions perfectly match. That's the epitome of maturity. And I think it's, it's so great to see you in this spot. And I know that you're going through an incredibly challenging time and your family's going through an incredibly challenging time. But I believe what is going to happen is that you are going to be able to create more internal happiness as you were helping

others. And that seems to be your plight right now through your coaching work, through your willingness to come here and share not only about your life, but about your sister. You know, you're doing it to help others. And I think the reward is going to be more joy. A hundred percent. And I think that Thank you for that, by the way, because that's a really nice view of me. But yeah, I love helping people and I just, I want to help as many people as I possibly can, not only in my coaching business, but also with Darcy's story as well. And I do hope that it is able to save someone from thinking twice about what they're actually doing on nights out and things because people are reckless.

When we were talking about managing post-death, that part was very therapeutic. for me as well. I resonate. I mean, I felt like we were offset when somewhere. I felt like that the whole time sharing. But yeah, but it was one of those where I, I, that was just so you know, that was very helpful for me. So, so I appreciate you. It was very, the whole thing has been helpful for me. I think even my mom said before I came, it'll help you just being able to talk about things and, you know, have another person's perspective. And like you say, you've been through grief yourself. You know that feeling. This is the first time I'm experiencing it. And I think, you know, that conversation that we've just had where we were just speaking about that grief

that is just things that people have to deal with day to day and you have to carry on living. And there's so much to live for. And I'm so excited. I've got this little baby in my stomach right now. Yes. Which is like, oh God, what am I? Like 14 weeks. God, my bum is just going to get so much bigger I'm reading it. I'm so upset about it. That's how we're going to end this. I'm just dreading my bum getting bigger. But yeah, we'll deal with it at the end

because I will have a regulated nervous system. And I won't be relying on the biscuits in the same way that I was last time. That is right. That's the biggest takeaway. That is right. Okay. That's how we're ending this?

Yeah, I guess so. After all of that, that's how we're going to end this. No, you know what we're going to do? I'm going to end it by giving you this letter. Okay. Thank you. But thank you so much for letting me share my story and Darcy's and it's been really great. Thank you. Thank you. Excellent.

Loved it. Love speaking with her. She brought so many critical topics up that we are not talking about that we need to talk about. And so I'm grateful that she was able to come discuss this with us. Death impacts every single person in this world. And I remember. going through life and at a certain age saying, wow, I've never, I don't know anyone who has passed away. I distinctly remember that. And now to move to a place where I know many people who have passed, how the emotions that Holly described are all accurate.

The natural inclination is, let's just not talk about it. This is the one thing that we haven't figured out how to grasp. And so, yes, it does. It deserves more conversation. We will definitely include a link in the episode description about organ donation. This is a topic now that it's come up again and again on this podcast, and it's such an important one. To me, that's what stands out the most, is her ability to reflect and realize the lessons.

That's maturity. You know, that is really someone who has evolved, because I could tell you, I feel like I'm fairly mature, but no, I would go back and change a million things, you know, about life. And she wouldn't change a thing. How many discounts does USAA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount. Safe driver discount. New vehicle discount. Storage discount. How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usa.com slash auto discounts. Restrictions apply. Spring just slid into your DMs.

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