We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - GK Barry: I’m Finally Ready To Tell My Story

Episode Date: September 1, 2026

GK Barry became one of the internet’s biggest personalities, but this conversation reveals the Grace Keeling behind the fame, the jokes and the confidence. She reflects on being bullied at school, feeling desperate to fit in, and learning to make people laugh before anyone could laugh at her. Grace opens up about her relationship with her body, becoming obsessed with being thin, and how the attention that came with changing her appearance reinforced everything she believed about herself. She also speaks about witnessing racism through her dad Andrew, discovering her sexuality, and falling in love with Ella Rutherford - from the fear of letting people know to finding a relationship where she finally feels accepted for who she is. For the first time, Grace shares an experience from when she was 17 involving a 27-year-old man, and the years of confusion and self-blame that followed. She explains why she didn't report what happened at the time, the advice she was given by police, and how it took her years to understand what had happened to her and recognise that it wasn't her fault. Funny, honest and deeply vulnerable, this is GK Barry ready to tell her story. GK Barry, We Need To Talk Content warning: This episode includes discussion of sexual assault and disordered eating. We have included links to support charities and resources here: The Rape Crisis England & Wales 24/7 Support Line is available day and night on 0808 500 2222, with free online chat also available on their website https://linkly.link/2sHpO Beat Eating Disorders https://linkly.link/2sHpG MIND: https://linkly.link/2dx8b Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow GK Barry here: https://www.instagram.com/gkbarry_/ https://www.tiktok.com/@gkbarry Buy Grace’s Book - It's Giving Life: A Guide to Surviving and Thriving: https://linkly.link/2sHqS (00:00) Intro (01:37) How Paul and Grace First Met (03:37) Grace vs GK Barry: What's the Difference? (06:53) Why Grace Wanted to Come on We Need To Talk (10:04) Growing Up Outside the UK (15:15) Stepdad's Impact on Grace's Life (18:38) Moving Back to the UK as a Child (26:10) Shopify Ad (27:23) Not Fitting In At School (44:41) Struggles With Appearance (52:45) Career Ambitions After Leaving School (57:06) Paul Surprises Grace With A Letter (01:07:23) The GK Barry Persona (01:10:06) How Grace Monetised Her Social Media Success (01:15:05) Grace's Rise From TikTok to Television (01:21:48) Huel Ad (01:22:55) Grace on Writing Her First Book (01:25:14) Grace Opens Up About Her Experience of Sexual Assault (01:37:47) When Grace Realised She Was Attracted to Women (01:42:16) How Grace and Ella Met (01:46:54) Why Grace and Ella's Relationship Works (01:52:43) Grace Reads a Letter From Ella (01:57:17) Grace's Love of Prosecco (01:59:48) Most Memorable Conversation (02:02:15) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Shopify: www.shopify.co.uk/needtotalk Huel - http://uk.huel.com/WNTT use code WNTT for £10 off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. I want to talk about something important and it will help at least one person

but it's taken me this long to fully be like no that was actually really wrong and this is the only podcast that I will talk about it on we all love GK Barry but I don't know how many of us actually know grace well I'll tell you everything so then can we go back at school I was doing everything to try and be liked

so then I was like the way in is to be funny then it's like I've taken back that power you're laughing because of me and thank God it worked out. It sure did. And then I get I'm a celeb. Did you ever think, like, I wonder if all of these people at school watch this? Yeah, like I'm hoping maybe they were like, oh, she's actually all right.

I know there's a story. There is a story. Okay. Take your time with it. Right. How do you feel about yourself today? I think Ella really gives me a lot of confidence. Sickening, isn't it?

No, you know what? It is beautiful to see. Grace, can I? give you surprise. I bet. I can't believe she did not. This conversation includes Grace sharing her account of an alleged sexual assault, as well as discussions around body image and disordered eating. We've included support resources in the episode description.

If these topics are difficult for you, please watch with care. We must note that the allegations of sexual assault have not, to date, resulted in criminal prosecutions. We report, but we do not adopt them. Do you know we have mentioned? met before. We've met, met, but we haven't met. Oh, was I pissed. See, you don't remember. Oh, no, Paul. Do you remember? Wait, you're going to have to give me context. Are you telling me you do not remember? No, Paul, was it at like an event? You don't remember. You're going to learn something about me, and that is that I block everything out. Really? I don't remember anything.

You could say to me, do you remember your butt? And I'm like, no, I don't know a thing. Okay. I don't know, I don't know what that is about. But if you tell me, I'll remember. But where was it? All right, so we met but we didn't meet. It was backstage ITV for loose women. You were on the show? Yes. Fuck off.

Yes, yes. Now, here's how we met and we didn't meet, and then here's my apology. Okay. All right. But doing the research for you coming in, I think I now get it. I didn't get it truly. Was I a mute? You were mute.

Mm-hmm. So, so, on this, on this, I had, so you've been on my radar for a long time. Oh, for a long time. I've been very impressed with how you show up, like very confidently, very bold, right? Mm-hmm. But I realized that was G.K. Barry. Yeah.

So when, so we're backstage, I was coming on loose women. And I was like in some kind of green room situation. You're doing the wife. No, no, no, no. No, no. I'm not aware. Stay on loose swimming, we've got Paul. We've all been there. So, so, like, I'm way back in the screen room.

And I see you walk in the hallway. But I thought it was you. It was like a glimpse. It was like, oh my God, is it? Like, I've never met. I want to go say what's up. But I was thinking you were going to be big, brash, bold, confident. Yeah.

You walked in. Do you want to know why? What? On Loose Women, I think I've got a big bit of imposter syndrome on there. And to be honest, thank God we don't have guests anymore because it was just constant. Like, when I'm on that panel, I am the smallest one technically. Like the audience don't really know me. I think they know me a bit more now.

But I'm just very aware that the people aren't there to see me. And they also probably don't know me. So when a guest comes on, I'm very like, hi. And then I just sort of keep myself to myself because I don't want them to be like, Why is she talking to me? Really? Yeah, that's why I'm always very mute. And thank God we don't have guests anymore

because I was literally just like a mute. And that was probably why. You were. Yeah. I mean, it was actually shocking to me. Really? Because you were, to me, you appeared so different than who I thought you were

that I didn't even realize it was you. But that's just me in person anyway. Someone recognizes me on the street and go, do you go back? Then I'll be like, oh. But if no one's done that, I will just happily pot her into a room and not say anything. Really?

Yeah, I'm very happy to do that. So are you, do you feel like you're more introverted slash shy? Yeah. Oh my God, yeah. Especially when meeting new people, I don't, if I'm meeting new people that don't know me as G.K. Barry, then I'm very, very shy. But if I meet someone and they know it's me, like I've walked in it today and I'm like, po, wah, blah, then that's fine because I can sort of, I've got that confidence.

to hide behind. But I'm not like that usually. I am very shy and really awkward. It keeps me up at night. So, really? Yeah. So you know what I'd love to do then today?

Okay. Is I want to meet Grace. Yeah. I want to know grace. Okay. Right? Because G.K. Mm.

I think I get. And we all get... I think everyone knows that as well. And we all love GK. Yeah. But I don't know how many of us actually know grace. Yeah. I think it's all glimpses of it in the jungle, if anyone watched the jungle.

Okay. Because it was quite hard to get. First two days, I was giving it all that, and then I was so fucking hungry. I just went back to me. I was the most boring bastard. I didn't have any air time for three days. It was so long. So we saw a bit?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because I was knackard and hungry. All right. But I will put down the G.K. Barrier facade for you today. And we'll meet Grace. You shall. When we started this podcast two years ago.

Yeah. I had a list composed of the people that I most wanted to sit across from. And you were on that list. I can't believe that. Why? Yeah. You know what I think it is, is that I think a lot of people might be in this category, too, is I, the first thing I ever saw of you, I believe I saw you either talking about or with your dad. Okay.

Andrew. Yeah, yeah. And I thought, oh, my, that fat is... He's so white. Look at that all the time. I was like, how? Where? When?

Did this happen? If I had a pound. And that is, that was like a hook that intrigued me. And then I saw like clips of you on TikTok. And I was like, oh, she's hilarious. And da, da, da, da. And so that's how it started. But that was the hook.

That's so funny. Yeah, there you go. There you go. So I've always wanted you on. So I'm just super proud that you're here. Thanks for having me. But you were mentioning that you wanted to only come on when you had something of what? Just of substance.

I feel like with this pod, I'm a massive fan by the way because I think the stories that people tell on here are incredible. And I think they're also really vulnerable. And for me, if I was to get the opportunity to come on here, I didn't want to waste the opportunity talking about, you know, I became TikTok famous. You know, I wanted to be able to give something that people could watch and listen and actually take something from. And I wasn't ready really until obviously I wrote the book. Then I was like, I'm just going to lay on my cards out. And if it goes Pete Tong, at least I've been on this podcast. Really?

Yeah. So how do you feel, you know, in this moment? I feel nervous. I mean, to be fair, you've calmed the nerves a bit. Okay. You have. You're a very calming person. I'm sure you've probably been told that before.

Well, I appreciate it. But, yeah, very nervous. Like, literally this morning, I was like, oh, God. I've never really been nervous like this for a pod because pods are pods. But this one I feel like is quite a big, I don't know. A lot of people after this pod are going to know me a little bit. it too well and that is horror. Okay.

Yeah. So this is interesting. Yeah. Why is it horror for people to know you, to know you fully? Well, I know I'm very open online, but it's what I have, it's funny stuff. So I don't, embarrassing stuff that I don't really care about. It's like, yeah, I pissed in the street once. What are you going to do arrest me?

Like, that's fine. But when it comes to like personal stuff and I'm from a family. that don't, we don't talk really about anything personal. I think we don't even really say I love you. Like it's that, obviously we love each other. Right. But we're from, we're not open. So then to come on the internet and for people to know very intimate details

about things that have happened does make me feel a bit, ooh. Yeah, I hear you. Because it opens conversations then. Yes. And I hate a conversation. Do you? Yeah. Well, you're at the wrong place.

I know. I mean to be in there. But I tell you what, I totally hear you. Yeah. And one of the things that I want you to know is that I'm so curious about you that it's almost, what we're going to do is we're going to walk hand in hand down this path of your life. Well, I'll tell you everything. Okay. I will.

I'll give you that. I will tell you everything. Okay. Okay. So then can we go back? Yes. Let's start at the beginning. Yeah.

Sorry at the beginning. All right. So where were you born? I was born in the UK. Okay. And then my real dad and mom moved to Virgin Gorda because he was retiring and he wanted to build them a house to retire in. Interesting. So can I ask right there is how old was your birth father?

My dad is well old. He is, I want to say he's 80 now, 80s. Sorry to anyone watching this, that is 80. But yeah, he was quite significantly older than mum because my mum is, I think she's turning 67. Okay. So there's a little bit of an age gap there. But they were in love and whatever.

So he wanted to retire and take my mum over there. And then that's where my mum met my other dad, Andrew, because he was a firefighter out there. Ah, okay, in the Virgin Islands. Yeah. Okay. You were how old when your parents, I think I was about two.

You were two, okay, so you were young. Yeah. But your father, from what I understand, he moved to the States then. Yeah. And you still maintain a relationship with him. Yeah, I mean, we're both quite bad at speaking on the phone, I would say. So we would speak on the phone occasionally and then, but also at this time we'd moved to Tortola. Okay.

So we were on a different island and then get this. we moved back to the UK because my grandma, everyone was like, Grandma's going to die. She lived another 20 years. But we moved back to the UK for that and then my dad obviously moved to the States and there was a Christmas where they were like, right, you're going to go and spend Christmas with your dad.

And I was like, yeah, brilliant. And he'd got with this other woman who I'd never, I don't think I'd really met her before. So that was like my first time going to see him after, I think, properly. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And what was that experience like, you know, seeing your father, he has another, you know, relationship, you're not interacting with him a lot? To be honest, I wasn't really asked and not in a bad way. Like, I've got mum and Andrew at home who are like my core family, I would say. And then I'd speak to my dad and I knew who's my dad. And I felt he was my dad as well. And then when I went to go see him, it just felt normal. I wasn't. funny about the fact that he was with another woman. I was just sort of like, all right, this is

this is just it and that's fine. I never really deeped anything like that. I never really have. Okay. How do you believe your relationship with your dad has shaped who sits before me today? I don't know. I think I've never really thought,

more when it comes to relationships, Because I can see both sides of whatever happened in that divorce. I can very much see both sides of why both parties were doing what they did. But I'd say more when it comes to relationships, I am so on it with, I'm very aware. Marriages usually a lot of the time, I feel like I get scared that it's a curse. Really? I do, yeah, I do. I'm very anxious about marriage.

I feel like you don't know someone until you break up with them. I'm very on that because before all of this with any of my mum's husband, she doesn't add loads, with my mum's ex-husbands, they were all amazing until the breakup and they just ruin her life. And that's stuck with me. And I think, yeah, because I'm not as close with my dad, you know, I get a bit torn over it.

But I don't know if, I don't know how it has impacted me, really. I don't know if I've ever thought about it. You know, one thing I absolutely agree with you on is that you truly, don't know anyone until they're hurt. Yeah. You know? And I always say that you could sense the strength of a relationship when you have a partner who is hurt and then you watch, what do they do immediately after?

Do they lean into their partner? Do they seek refuge and safety with your partner? Or do they admonish them, yell at them, hurt them because they're hurt? Do they go to someone else? That's a pivotal, you know, moment. So I'm with you. And I think that it's so observant of you as a young girl to witness those things and just say, I don't want that. Yeah, mental note.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So you saw your mom hurt quite a bit then when you were little. Yeah. Well, she never really, and also she's been great. She's never really spoken badly about my dad to me. She's always made it very like, you go and do what you want to do.

And you can make your own mind up of whatever. that you want to make up. And I think that's helped because I think if she was like, he did this, he did that, oh, I did this, then it would have swayed any opinions and maybe my connection with him possibly.

So, yeah. Okay. Can we talk about Dad Andrew? Yeah. All right. So Dad Andrew is the hook for me become interested in you, right? Yeah.

And the hook for me was he's black. Yeah. He is, in fact, black. He's in fact like, right? And the reason why that was so interesting to me is because I thought that was your birth dad. So then I thought you were mixed race. Yeah. And I thought that you, then I thought that there was a different experience that you had.

But I would imagine that you still have had a unique experience growing up with a dad. Yeah. Who is a black man. Massively. And so just in, how old were you when Andrew and your mother got together? I'd say, I don't know, one or two. Oh, okay. So he goes back, back, back with you.

Oh, he literally, yeah, he raised me. Wow. And then obviously we lived out there and he taught me everything. We lived right by the beach and I had cornrows. And I also at that age didn't register. And I know this is cliche, but I didn't register black and white, right? I knew I was white and I knew other people were black that were on the island. But I just thought I was just maybe a bit paler.

I didn't really sort of put, do you know what I mean? Yeah, there's a difference. I did put the two and two. I had cornrows and I was open like coconuts on the beach with my hands. I had an incredible start of life. I was trying foods that people would not normally try. I was literally just living the most amazing life. And obviously I'd only sort of known that.

And then when I moved back to the UK, I was like, oh, everyone's white. Like, everyone looks like me. And then I also sort of got introduced to racism to my dad. And then that's when I was like, oh, not everyone has been raised. There's even down to like, you know when sometimes you go to someone's houses and they only eat chicken nuggets and chips? Yes, yes. And I'll be like, do you want to just try anything? And they're like, no, no.

I've been, all my life just about try that. I'm like, yeah, all right. And that's how I found, like, incredible food and, like, different cultures and just embracing all of it. Yes. But a lot of people that haven't left the UK don't ever experience that.

And that, to me, was crazy when I moved back here. I remember that. It must have been a massive culture shock. Yeah. Yeah, for you. Yeah. So what got you here then, Was your grandmother then?

Is that why the family moved? Yeah, we were like, she's going to die. She stayed alive for quite a long time, actually. And she was in really good health, actually. I think she was milking it a bit, to be honest. But, yeah, we moved back, and obviously this is home. But that was, and I went to a really, really small Christian school. Okay, and where was this?

Chevely. In New Market. New Market, okay, okay. Yeah. And how old were you at that time? I want to say, like, six. or seven-ish. Seven-ish.

That's so interesting because I didn't realize, but this is all making sense now. Yeah. So then when you come to the UK to Newmarket, do you still have the cornrows? No, I did have to get rid of them. I'm pretty sure I came back with them and then we swiftly got rid of them

because I don't think, I remember everyone in primary school just had pony tails and I was like, okay, I get it. Okay. This is what we're doing. Did you have an accent? Yeah, I did. I sound a bit like Sean Paul. And that is, yeah. I remember my dad's saying you had this like Caribbean twang. I'm walking into a classroom saying shabba. Like it was, it was mental. That was wild. But then I went the opposite way I went really posh. Did you? Yeah. This is what happens. Yeah. Why do you think you did that? Just to, I think, fit in. I was like learning how everyone spoke. And I was like, okay, this is how I'm going to speak. And then I just sounded like Queen Liz.

Look at that. Look at that quick, that quick switch. So my boys are 12 and 15 now. And when they came over from America, they, and to this day, so they've been here for, you know, eight, nine years, they've held on to their American. Really? Just the accent piece. And I think the reason why is they feel like it gives them, they're going to hate me for saying this, but it feels like it makes them cool. Yeah, yeah, I get you. You know?

Yeah. At that age then, your father, this is the first time that Dad Andrew is now in England. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you said that's the first time that you experienced racism. You saw it firsthand. Yeah.

What did you see? I mean, we moved also back with hardly any money. So my dad was like, right, I'm going to get, I'm a firefighter, but also a paramedic. I'm going to get a job here. Straight away, they were like, no. No, so he couldn't get a job that way. So the only job he could get was in a factory. He was working in a factory, and then during the day,

I want to say he was like helping rent cars. And he was constantly working and only sleeping for a little bit. And I remember we'd be walking down the street and someone spat at him. And obviously called him, whatever. And then I was like, that's really weird. and down to even when I'd be at school and he dropped me off you could tell people were like

why is he dropping her off or even picking me up but are you okay that's my dad you know sort of stuff like that I think I'm very sensitive to that now I think because until you've I think until you've lived with someone

or been close to someone that has experienced that you don't you don't see the subtle racism in things that people do and that yeah that's why I feel like I can really sometimes I think I can be a bit too woke with it they're like I didn't mean that I'm like yeah but suddenly you do you

what I mean but it's because I'm very hypersensitive to it yeah how does it feel to witness someone spit on your father? I just think it's it is bizarre as well because again the cultures are different when you move over there no one's going oh you're white

you're just accepted and everyone's like welcome you know, but when you come over here, there's so much, and not just here, there's a lot of other countries, but there's so much hatred. And I just don't, I've never really understood that. Because if you've got to know my dad, he's great. He's like, he'll help anyone. If you've lived somewhere where you're not meeting people with different cultures,

you're not going to know and you're not going to understand. And I think it's more the small, small town mindset than it is actual hatred. Than hatred, yeah. Yeah. What do you think that does to you? And I'll give you a personal experience is that I remember when I was younger, we, like my parents saved up and they took us abroad. They took us to Germany. I was like, oh, this is incredible, right?

So we're in Germany. I remember we went out to, we were going to go out to this special fancy dinner and we all get dressed to go to this dinner. And we're going to the restaurant. We have reservations. And, you know, I'm this kid. see my father go up to the front and I can see how they're reluctant to let us in. They don't want to let us in. Yeah.

And I didn't fully understand what was happening. But what I witnessed was this man that I consider to be everything being reduced to nothing. Yeah. And it hurt. Like it hurt. Yeah. And it was the first time that I realized. And I almost hate to say it, but I almost realize, wow, like, I viewed him as someone who could do anything.

Yeah. And then for the first time I saw a limitation on him. Then I began to think, okay, so that must mean, so if this man who's the king to me is limited, this must mean I am severely limited. Yeah. You know, so what does it do to you to witness someone spitting on your father or calling him deraga to terms. It does make me hate everyone a little bit. I'm just like, because who else, it's always, in England, in America, they're quite

verbal with it, so at least you know where you stand. Yes. Even though it's not right, at least I know, okay, you're racist, so at least I know to stay away for me. In the UK, they don't outwardly say it. They'll do subtle things. So it made me be like, what is everyone's views? And I'm really on edge because I would, so I've dated.

people and then they'll suddenly make a comment and I'm like oh so you have these views too and it made me really it makes me so pissed off but my dad and what I was even though he shouldn't have to add this way I get really angry but he's just like it just shows more about them look at that and then I was like okay because if he reacted angrily it would like confirm to the other person yeah look I was right so he always deals with it just like whatever So I do need to be a little bit more like that But I do think it's quite difficult Yeah, very, very hard, very hard

And something tells me that you would not be Like, you're the one to say something Well, do you know what is? I'm not even confrontational So like I'll get really upset If, to be fair This hasn't happened as well recently That I know of

But I'll get really upset for him And I'll just slagging him off to my dad And he's just like, it's fine Like, it's not fine, but, you know, it's just, it's just who they are. They're a weirdo. They've never, they've never left their town. Like, why would you be upset about someone like that's opinion? And I'm like, you know, I suppose when you put it like that.

Yeah, look at that. Look at that. I think that's such an incredible outlook to have. And I think that there's a whole generation that was kind of on this front line of civil rights, not just in the U.S., but in the UK. And I give them so much respect and reverence because I just don't understand like how how like introspective they are about it. You know?

Yeah. Yeah. And it's a blessing. You know, it's a blessing to have it. Our work in personal lives have never been more intertwined. And I would know, I started my matchmaking business with my wife. And when the business is you, it's hard for those two worlds not to overlap. That's why there's no better platform to build and work.

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2.5 Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca. Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know, the same way you can skip an ad?

I get it. I'm Siaya and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the worst. way I planned. And today I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Don't miss the new season of North of North starting September 8th on CBC Gem. Hey there, I just want to say thank you for choosing we need to talk. Doing this podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life. And I want to continue to share it with you. So hit follow and the bell icon. It takes just a second

And it helps us to continue to grow this podcast. From what I understand is school was tough for you. Primary school was all right. Okay. Because, I mean, that was sort of, I fit straight in after, made friends. And then everyone at my primary school went to a secondary school that I wasn't in catchment for. So I was the only one. that went to Soam.

Okay. And I remember, you know the first assembly you ever have and they read out schools and you put your hand up? I remember, I don't know why they do this, they went Chevely and I put my hand up and everyone giggled and I was like, all right, that was hell.

All right, so now, so that was the school that you had just come from? Yeah, so Chevely's primary, Soam's secondary. Okay, so you're the only one from your school. Yeah. Now, why did people laugh at that? I don't know. I think it was just because it was my singular little hands.

And I had a really, I had a bob at the time. There was probably a lot going on there. And you didn't even do that. You did the finger. Famously. It was the finger. That's why. Grace, that's why you did the finger. I don't know I did that. Well, so you, so you started as different. Yeah. Yeah. And I was also, I would say, not generically good looking either. and I was quite weird. So automatically, I mean, I was just sort of asking for it there, really, to have a tough time.

Okay. Can we talk about body image? Yeah. You know, it wasn't until this podcast talking to so many incredible women that I fully could understand and begin to appreciate the, unfortunately, the value. that society places on looks disproportionately for young girls, right? Because when I was coming up, like, quite honestly, I wasn't thinking about how I looked, how my friends looked, but I realize now that was privilege in this patriarchal society. That's so funny that you were never thinking about how you looked.

Not once. That's crazy. Not once. Yeah. Now, I see it's interesting. It could be generational as well because my oldest is 15. and he's begun to like really take care of himself in terms of physically. But honestly, like maybe by the time I was 18 or 17, I started thinking about it.

So you were ultra conscious of this. Yeah. Little. And I was very skinny. I've always been very skinny when I was younger. So skinny. And I remember that was like, it was just sort of my thing. I was really skinny, I was really proud of it, because everyone, at that time it was Kate Moss,

Cara Delavine, Paris Hilton, and it was the skinny era. And I was like, right, this is how I'm going to fit in here because I'm thin. But then it sort of also turned into, I've never really had much control in my life because at school it was never really properly fit into any type of group, even up until now, how, you know, our job isn't, you know, every day you have structure nine to five, where I'm going to be tomorrow the next day. So the only thing that for me I could have control in was that I'll be the skinny one or I'll be the skinniest in the room.

That's interesting. Yeah. So how did you achieve that? So, you know, Tumblr? Yes. So back in the day, everyone had their own tumblers at school. I think you have to explain it because Tumblr is no longer there. No, it's not.

People are probably like, let's tumbler. So Tumblr's sort of like a, I don't know what it would be. I guess it's kind of like Instagram, but you're not posting your own pictures. Yes. You're reposting loads of others and you all have themes. Mine was a depressed Tumblr, obviously, and it was like black and white. And I started looking on there and there was this, I came across this page called Thin Spoh. And it was basically loads of people who were in very active eating disorders being like, I weigh this much, I've eaten this much, and this is how much I've lost.

and I was like, oh, they're losing quite a lot. So I then started reading all the thin spoon what other people were doing. And I was like, how can I follow this? I started following it. And then I'd also, to give myself motivation, it's so fucked up saying it. But to give myself motivation,

I'd put on my tumbler loads of pictures of really, really skinny girls. So if I felt hungry, I'd just go back and look at that and be like, well, you're not going to look like that if you have a Victoria sponge. and that was sort of then at school I remember I wouldn't eat and then my mum clocked that my account

no money was going out of it for my school lunches so I was like I've got to go so I'd buy a pinini and I'd give it to my mate and then it would go the opposite way as soon as I came home or however long it'd be ravenous

I would eat everything I'd literally eat the whole fridge worth so hungry and then I'd start again. And I don't think I had an eating disorder. I don't think it ever went that far. And the desire was so that you could do what socially? I think it was to be accepted.

I think back then it was cool to be thin. It was attractive to be thin. And if I didn't have it face-wise or it was a bit weird, at least I could have that because I'm thin. And it felt like I could have that one up on if anyone was mean to me, well, I'm thinner, which is really toxic. But that was like my mindset. So that's, yeah, that was the drive. Yeah.

That was the drive. Isn't so interesting when you reflect back? I'm so stupid. Yeah, you look at the things that you did, you had to sacrifice in order to socially be accepted. Yeah. Now, do you believe that ultimately you were accepted? socially. No, not then. That was a waste of time. But now, yeah. When I lost a lot of weight, I'd say about two years ago, a lot. And I have never had that much, not from like people fancy

me, but interest in me or people, you know, checking on me and you look amazing. Wow, you look I've never had so many compliments as when I was that thin. I think people do treat you differently. And then from that, I was like, this is it. That is the way to be. Look at that. Yeah. Look at that.

And so this is within the last few years, you're saying, okay. So then would you say that even commercially things were different for you? Yeah. I'd say even down to more people were taking pictures of me or there was more engagement on my staff. Like I think people were finding me a bit more attractive. They were like, what's happened to GCA-Rex? She's had a glow-up.

Like, there was all this positive reinforcement on the fact that, and also I wasn't even big to have had this massive weight loss transition. Like, I just became really, really thin, even though I was thin before. And it was just like everyone started to treat me differently. And that felt really good. Yeah. But now going back to you in school, you said that despite you losing the weight,

you still were not socially accepted. Yeah. And I was a few minute at that. So I was doing everything, everything to try and be liked. Like looking back, embarrassing levels. Okay. lying, going up to like a popular group of girls and be like, I just heard Sam said this about you.

Sam hadn't said that, but I just wanted them to be like, oh, thank you for telling. Do you know what I mean? I wanted to be able to get into their group, like insane levels to be like. It was weird. But you feel like you were never accepted? No. Why do you say that? Because I know they were just taking the piss out of me.

and there was one instance oh my god this keeps me up at night to this day Paul there was one instance where there was this girl and she we were in the same form and she was like grace you know the cup song out of pitch perfect she's like grace

I tell you what like why don't we post on each other's Facebook walls singing the cup song so you post you singing it on my wall and then I'll post it on your wall and I was like oh my god like I think she wants to be friends of me so I'm going to do it

it. I did it. By the way, I can't sing. I did it. And I'm waiting. I'm waiting for her to post back. She doesn't post back. And it was just so everyone could take the piss out of me. And that was like the worst. That was horror. And that's when I clocked, I was like, they just are taking the piss out of me. But didn't stop me. Still carried on trying. You still did it. Yeah. You still did it. Yeah. You know, when you are ostracized like that, you know, and you're the only one, you know, where is your safe space? Well, I had a best friend called Kim. Okay.

He floated about. But I'd say no one really sort of got us, so it was just always me and Kim. And she was also black as well. So I think, and we're in a very white school. So people aren't really dealing with that. People think I'm weird, so we stuck together, and she was my safe space. You know what I love what you just said? Yeah.

You said she was also black. Yeah. Not that I'm black, but I meant in the sense of, don't. I'm white. No, no, no. No, I'm going to give you the card. I'm going to say, you can come over. I just meant. Grace, you can come over.

No. You can come to the cookout. What I meant was. You could come to the cookout. You just bring your, yeah. I meant she was black. So like. In that school, no one's really given our time a day.

And I was weird. And I was like, you know what? It's just us too, Queen. So, yeah, we just spent every day together. And that was, yeah, she was my ride or die. Because if I didn't have her, that would have been hell and horror. Yeah, yeah. So here's a stat.

one out of six school-aged children experience cyberbullying now. Yeah. So bullying, we'll put it in the bullying category. So you put yourself in that category then, because that example that you just gave me, that was cyberbullying, the Facebook example. Yeah. Well, do you know what's difficult? I know I had a tough time at school. And I would say that I was, but it wasn't getting shoved over in the hallways, wasn't getting beaten up, was getting my head flushed down on a toilet.

but people were mean to me, especially online. And listen, don't get me wrong, I tried to give it back as well. I'm not an innocent bystander, but I wasn't to the level that they were treating me. And I think mine was like self-defense a little bit. Because on social media you could say at the time, they were tweeting horrible stuff about me or saying awful things, laughing at me, blah, blah. So it's like, I'm going to have to think of something to say back to sort of defend my And that was the issue with social media because it doesn't stop at school.

It carried on and I literally became addicted to my phone. Had to be seeing what everyone was tweeting. Really? Is it about me? So these were people in the school just tweeting crazy things about you. Like what? There was once a photo, a lost my virginity and the guy the next day told everyone I laid there like a dead fish. Well, there was this girl, wish her well in hell.

And she posted this photo of like the ugliest fish I have ever seen in my entire life. It was clapped. I also think it was dead. And she was like, guess who this looks like? Everyone's taking the piss in the comments. Or you know the sly little things where it's an indirect. Yes.

All stuff like that. And you know it's about you. And it's just constant. And they'll also then in group chats, they'll add you to a group chat and remove you so you can't say anything. but you can see everything they've said about you. That happened a lot. Yeah.

Yeah. You don't consider that bullying? Not, I don't know, I just think people, yeah, but I do think people are also very, they're just not nice when they're younger. Yeah. Like I think as well at my school, I don't think anyone was nice.

I mean, that might just be school, but all ourselves. Yeah, when I look at that, that's bullying. Yeah. You know, I think with bullying, is I think it's about the power dynamic, which is what really makes it bullying and the fact that it is continuous. Yeah.

So you are, in that group, you are from a social standpoint or a strength standpoint, you're a minority. There's a majority. Anytime a majority is inflicting pain on the minority, that's bullying. and then it's continuous. So that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's bullying. Yeah. That's bullying.

You know, but your response, though, it's interesting because I can now, it's so interesting because I now see where G.K. Barry comes from. Okay. I see the roots. I think the roots are there. Yeah. I think the roots are in that moment of, you know what? You're going to do this to me.

Mm. So I'm going to do what? I'm going to counter it with. Yeah. I'm going to come back at you. That was my thing. I always had to one up or do something. Even down to, I was like, right, I'm not conventionally pretty, whatever.

So I remember seeing, you know, Miranda Hart. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's my bitch. I love that woman. And my parents bought me her box set of the Miranda show. Yes. and I sat watched the entire thing

the whole bunch of series and I learnt line for line everything because I knew everyone thought she was funny right and then I'd go back into school

and I would just give some of the lines literally I would literally give some of the lines like such fun or like just the just as much I also galloped a bit like she did but she

that was weird from me she made that quite funny but I was just doing stuff that she would do that I knew people laughed at, and it also then also got laughs. So then I was like, right, this is a way in is to be funny. And that did work. That, that, that blows my mind.

Yeah. The fact that you didn't even, like, attribute it to her, you would just drop a line. Just here and there, a bit of such fun. Or like anything random that she'd said, I would just drop it in Convo. And I remember it would get laughs. And I was like, yeah, this is how to get people to like you. Yeah. Where did the self-deprecation start?

Was it there? That was school, yeah. That was school, okay. Because it was straight away, you've got no ass, you've got no tits, you've got weird teeth, you've got a massive nose, you look weird, your posture's weird. So I would then say it before anyone else could say it. As soon as I'd walk into a room, like, sorry, my ass, let's flatten this.

Because then they wouldn't say it because I've already, but what's the point? I've already done it and I've already made a joke out of it. Right. So you've got to think of something else. And also, it does get the most laughs. Self-deprecation, really, like, people love that. And I kind of love it too.

You love it. Do you love, what did you start to love about it, though? Because you're poking fun at yourself. Everyone who's laughing, they're laughing at the joke. Sort of agreeing. So they're sort of agreeing. Yeah. What was it that made you?

I just think it was people laughing. I was like, oh, I'm obviously not going to stand up here and do a knock-knock joke. So let me just do something that's about me. And also I think I was quite used to being laughed at anyway, just because of how I looked. So for me, if I could make it first and they still laugh, then it's like I've taken back that power. You're laughing because of me. Not because does that make sense? Because you've said it about me.

I don't know if that makes sense. No, it does. Yeah. It does. It does. Can we explore something you've now said multiple times? And that is, I wasn't conventionally pretty. I didn't look good.

Horror. All right. Let's go there. No, Paul. Horror. Let's go there. Okay. So you are how old at this time?

I'm going to say this would have started year seven, year eight. So like 11? 11. Okay, so 11, 12. where I think a lot of people are beginning to form their identity. Yeah. So visually, how did you view yourself? Slender man, very tall, lanky, and I'm hunched because all the boys are shorter than me.

And I'm like, well, I'm not going to sit here and tower over them. That's weird. At the time I thought it was weird. Now I think that's quite cool. and then I've got this Victoria Beckham haircut short at the back long at the front crazy teeth my mum used to call me Gravestone

Did she really? Pale, yeah, pale, pale skin extremely pale, see my veins hairy arms, hairy legs because to be honest with you it was quite a long shave my legs so long, just everything about greasy hair because to be honest with you

I was just didn't really look after myself that much So I looked like a hot mess. And I was so aware of that. So, and there was also nothing I could really do about it. Because that was just how I was built. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

So your identity was that you didn't feel like you were attractive at all. No, and no one made me feel attractive at all. It was like I felt it, but also everyone else felt it. How so? It was like people, you know, people would come up to someone at school and be like, oh, they have a crush on you, but they're taking the piss because you're really ugly,

that, or people would make comments about my teeth or the way I looked or just everything. So it was just sort of confirmed to me that, yeah, you are a mess, which is great. What about at home? Were you told that you were you told that you were, were pretty or were you told that you were, you know, that you looked good?

My dad, Dad Andrew, he is always like, you were so gorgeous, like, you're most gorgeous girl, like you're so cute. He, but it's my dad. So, like, I could literally have my head chopped off and he'd be like, oh, you look so good. You know, I know he'd say that anyway. And me and mom, me and mum banter each other because she was built the same way. So we both have no ass. I both, I had gravestone teeth.

Like, yeah, it was just sort of a thing that we all laughed at. But I don't think it was my parents that drilled it into me, but also my parents, we just didn't really speak about it. Like, I never was like, I'm really self-conscious because my parents would be like, people are dying and get on with that. Right. Do you know what I mean? Right.

So all these, these challenges, these issues, they were little in your mind compared to, bigger issues in the world. Yeah, I think it's, it's, obviously it was big for me, but I wasn't going to go to my parents about it because that just felt really stupid. Even now, I think if I was like, Mom, I feel ugly. I think she'd be like, okay.

Why are you telling me? Why are you telling me? Yeah. How do you feel about yourself today? I feel a bit more confident today. I've got glam teams. That does actually really help. But I think it's mainly Ella.

I think Ella really gives me a lot of confidence that I will walk into a room looking like disheveled Hagrid she's like oh you look really nice today but I think because I only really care about what she thinks then I feel quite confident I think if I was single it would be very different before Ella it was like that

I say that like that underscores the power of love yeah like all the time like you get it from that person that you love yeah but it's interesting So you don't consider yourself compelling physically. I think I'm more, more compelling. I think I like how long my legs are now. I don't really care about my nose.

My mouth I could work on. It's a bit of a weird shape. But I'm not too obsessed about anyone. I wouldn't get any work done. If you asked me that 10 years ago, I would absolutely get everything done. Whereas now I'm just very set on, this is just what I look like.

I don't really care. Interesting. You know, my wife and I were watching the Netflix show, Missing You. Yeah. We're watching missing you. And we're watching it, we're watching it. And the scene comes on. And we both said, I think what's great about myself and my wife is that we can, we both talk about someone's beauty, you know, openly.

With no jealousy. No jealousy. Yeah. Right. And we said, this is one of the most beautiful women we have ever seen. Is that by me? It was you. What the hell?

Yeah, we didn't know it was you. No way. No, I swear, we did not know it was you. And so the scene, you know, the scene, because it's... Oh, because I'm like moisturizing me toes. There's like blank, there's like sheets and all kinds of things. And we said... I was like, we got to find out who this is.

Oh my God. Real story. I needed that, Paul. Real story. Thank you. Real story. Yeah. Yeah. It was, I was like, oh my gosh, look who it is.

What the hell? Yes, yes. So that's why I find it, I always find it interesting how someone views, how you view yourself. Why is anyone is like, yeah, I am 10-10? I really don't believe anyone thinks that. I bet she Ella does. What about herself? No, you.

Oh. Oh, you're saying self. About, yeah, about self. Oh, no, unfortunately. Some people do. The ego talks. A lot of people are like, you know, a matter of fact, I think a lot of guys, unfortunately. Oh, yeah.

They over, I think this is a gender difference. I think because, you know, and I know this from studying relationships is that most men overvalue themselves in terms of how they look, how, you know, what they bring to the table. Most women undervalue themselves. And I find that to be like almost 100% of the time. People don't like a confident woman. It is intimidating to many people. I think more men.

I think when I've ever met a confident woman, I'm like, wow. Like, that is so cool. Especially if I walk into a room that's... Catherine Ryan. Yes. I think her energy is incredible. When she walks into a room, she has all the men like that, just ready to listen to her. But I think when sometimes a man sees that, they get on the defense and they start not being very nice.

Yes. Yes. Yeah, very much so. I agree. I agree. So what did you aspire to be? when you were in school? Nothing.

I've never ever in my life knowing what I wanted to do. Never. I've never looked at a career and gone. Apart from, I wanted to be a pussycat doll. But obviously that wasn't going to happen because I can't say. But that was the only time I was like, yes. But I've never, when I was looking at colleges, what to do at college, I wasn't looking at a future job.

I was looking at what sounds fun. What's the easiest thing to do? And that's, to be honest, how I've done my whole life. Life, yeah. So what was, what excited you then in school? Boys at the time, I would say. Attention just to sort of, at school I was just like, I feel like I'm winning if I've got a boy's attention,

which is hilarious now because I couldn't give shit. But like back then, that was how all the popular girls always had a boyfriend or like someone that was into them. So I was like, right, I need a boyfriend. And that was my mission. That was it? Yeah. That was it.

You were like, if I can get a boyfriend, then... People are going to think I'm actually really cool and attractive because I've got a boyfriend. Okay. That was what I went to school for. All right. So you got one? Yeah, I did. I got a few.

Got a few? Yeah. Okay. How'd that go? Awful. Like, they were... One had a lot more gun than... tooth. My first one, very unhygienic, awful. Second one said I laid there like a dead fish,

but he had problems at home. Other one lived in a hostel, had half a tooth, used to deal drugs. And then another one went to jail for 21 counts of assault, had a baby he didn't speak to. Wow. Really? Yeah. Wow. That's okay. That's a resume. And for me, I was like, this is great. He's a great man. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay. So it was just to have anyone, just to have someone. Yeah, and the bar was on the floor, obviously, because I was going for felons. But like, I just thought anyone I can get out or take just to reaffirm that I'm attractive. Look at that.

Yeah. We've talked about your parents quite a bit. So as their relationship evolved, right? And you saw their love blossom. What would you say your biggest takeaway was at that time around a relationship and around love? I feel like I understood what pressures would get to a relationship

like what to look out for money or other people's input from the outside I learned what caused arguments but I also learned a communication where they might shout at each other but then after that they're speaking it out and they're making up

that was one thing making up a lot of people don't make up, they just sort of push it under the carpet. Yes, yes. I used to be guilty of that as well because I used to think, oh, we'll just, whatever, we'll forget about it. But seeing my parents, they always make up. And I think that's really important because then nothing builds.

It's just a clean slate. And I think me and Ella do that, although I'm really stubborn. Okay. Yeah, I can see. I believe you are. Thank you. I can see from meeting Ella and seeing you two, your dynamic real quick, is I can tell you're the stubborn one.

Also, I'm so stuck. Don't get it wrong. She is also sunbed off. Let's not get that twisted. Okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm more, it would kill me to say sorry first. Really? I do it sometimes when I really know I fucked up.

Okay. But it would, it really would kill me. To say, I'm sorry. Because I just feel like, embarrassed, do I mean? Yeah, yeah. Grace, can I give you a surprise? Yeah, always. All right, you have to close your eyes.

Okay. All right, trust me on this. Trust me on this. All right. Here it comes. Here it comes. Ready? God, what is it?

And open up. If you could give that a read. I feel like I'm being invited to Buckingham Palace. I love it. It's like a thick envelope as well. It's a very good, very heavy count letter. Oh God. Sit up with my parents.

I'm terrified. Right. I'm going to read now. Please. Okay. When Grace first started on her venture to become. one of the most funny, talented and hugely popular influences of today, we wondered what route this journey would take. We need not have had any concerns. Grace has always been a strong character

and even from the very early days in university and working, she showed commitment, hard work, determination, such work ethics that continue with her very much so today. It therefore comes as no surprised to us that her ever-rising popularity and entertaining humor has brought her to this exciting chapter of her life. Needless to say, we are extremely proud of you, Grace, and who you have become. Long may many chapters be added to this one. Love mum and dad. Do they actually write that? Yes, they did. How did you manage that? We're good. That's crazy, Paul. That is so cute. What stands out to you the most in that letter? Do you know what? I mean, they've always I've always said like I was, I've been quite a strong character.

And I've always had, I know I've always had quite a good work ethic. But it's quite funny that they, that it's no surprise to them that I ended up here. I find that quite funny because I don't know. I think for a while they were actually a bit terrified that, like, what was I going to do? But it's nice to know that they're happy with that. Yes. Thanks for saying you're proud. My dad does say that all the time, but my mum, you have to really poke that out of.

That's the part that stood up to me the most. Yeah. There's something when I think a parent says that. Yeah. Because you know they mean it. Yeah, they wouldn't lie. Yeah. Yeah.

That is really cute. Yeah. Yeah. I'll hold on to that. Oh, yeah. And then I'll give that back to you. I'll just put it back in the envelope. Oh, yeah.

Thank you so much. So now. Oh, God, I can't put it back in the envelope. No worries. No worries. So you said that you didn't think that they were confident in your career. Absolutely not. I would hand on heart say that.

I think they'd agree. So they were concerned. Yeah. And this is when you, what started TikTok in particular. This was even before. Really? This was college. Pre-uny, I didn't know if wanted to go to uni, but my dad was like, you're going to uni.

You were not staying in Soam. Okay. You were going. Regardless of... So I knew when I started college, I had to do an extra year to get my mass GCSE so then I could actually go to college. Okay. And so I was like, right, I'm going to go to you. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I'm going to go to uni.

And luckily I found a filmmaking course, but I didn't really care. I just thought it would be easy. And then started uni, started doing TikTok. My parents had not. They still don't really understand it. They were like, okay, well, you need a backup. And I was like, all right, I'll do a master's then. So I did a master's.

Oh, well, okay. And then I was working at Costa the whole time. And then one day I was like, you know what? I can't film Hello Fresh on my 12-hour shift. I'm going to quit. Even though I'm making no money, I'm going to quit. mom nearly dropped dead she was like i trust you but if this doesn't work out you need to get another job straight away and thank god it worked out it sure it did yeah it sure did so so let's let's unpack

the career aspect yeah because i think this is where most people know you from you know i was talking to a friend of mine coming over here this morning yeah and i was like you know jk barry's like yeah of course i said when did you first hear about her when did you first hear about her when did you first know about her, he said, God, I don't know. You know, it was one of those where I feel like you have such a unique career because I believe if I were to do a study, I love a good study, I think that your notoriety is significant. I've been a lot of firsts for things. You've been a lot of first. You have been a lot of first. But I think it was TikTok in particular that took you up, took you to the top.

So why? And when did you start TikTok? So it was March, the lockdown, as soon as we went into lockdown. It was COVID. Yeah, and I remember. That was yesterday. I know, you're telling me. Are you serious?

Yes. This is what you started. Yeah. No. So it was literally March. As soon as we were like, stay at home, save lives, I was staying at home, saving lives. Yeah, I was like, you don't have to tell me twice. So I was at home and I, it sounds funny, but it's not funny.

I genuinely thought we were all going to die, right? I was so... Health anxiety. I was like, look, if I'm going to die, I need to leave something for like the next... You know how dinosaurs have bones? I was like, I need to leave something, right? For the next people...

Like Clea, Patra in her tomb. I was like, I need something. So I was like, right, there's this new app called TikTok. I've just seen people dancing on it. I'm going to download it. And do you know what? I'm just going to say a really embarrassing story. Or my first video, I actually know it was a bloke running past my window.

And I said, I didn't know there was a hunk in the neighbourhood. I'm getting my gym gear on. I'm going on a fucking run like that. Blew up. And I was like, okay, that's really cool. So I thought, I'll try my luck. I'm going to say a really embarrassing story of something that happens to me because one thing my mum has given me is the ability.

to tell a story. Okay. I did it, went viral again. And by August, I got 100K. Follows, just on TikTok? Just on TikTok. Okay.

Instagram wasn't really a thing. It was just TikTok. And then I was like, okay, I'm just going to keep going and see where this is. And at that point as well, TikTok wasn't a job. No one was making money from it.

It was so new. And there was a handful of us creators that had just come up. Okay. And then we all became friends. And then, yeah, by, I'd say a year, I'd hit a million, it was really, really quickly. In one year. Yeah, and do you know what?

A memory that stands out. We came out of COVID, like, we came out of the lockdown. And I went to my local carps to get Prosecco, obviously. And the woman was like, oh, my God. And obviously, I've been inside. seen the number of people follow me, but it hadn't... You have not interacting. So I'm thinking someone's nicked something.

She's going, you're G.K. Barry. And I was like, it felt like something out of a film. And then her other co-worker came over and was like, oh my God, I love your TikToks. And I was actually like, I don't know what's going on. I walked back to my car. Someone else has now said it. And then I've driven home and I'm like, what has just happened? We have to go back to that moment.

because see now I've met Grace. Yeah. And I know how tough school was for Grace. I know how hard she was working to get the laugh. Yeah. I know how ostracized she was. Oh my God, it was pivotal. I know how unpopular Grace was.

Yeah. So now to come out of lockdown, to have three people immediately. Immediately, yeah. What does that or what did it feel like? It was incredible because they were coming up to me and saying, I love your video. You are so funny. And it felt like I had been waiting.

Obviously, my friends thought I was funny. Was there any human? But like, to have a stranger, that to me was like, I've done it. That was genuinely, I skipped back to my car. I was so happy. Yeah. And that, I feel like I chase that feeling constantly.

Since then. So that was a high. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And at that point, too, you can't monetize. No, it just wasn't a thing.

So you were doing it literally for, I don't want to belittle it, but like the attention of it. No, that absolutely is what it was. Yeah, how it made you feel. And also I'd then built a community at that time of people that were like me. So when I was posting,

I was posting no makeup, really bad skin, hair in a bun, because I knew that made a story funnier. If you look like shit and tell a story, it's funnier. I don't know what the sign. but it's there. So for me, everyone who was watching me was like,

I had the same thing, I did the same thing, and it was like I just built a community of people that were like me. And I'd searched for that for a very long time. That's so interesting. And then, so now tell me about the G.K.

Barry persona, because I feel like you're talking about it here. Take off makeup, although that is you, but to intentionally say I'm going to do it in a certain way. You're starting to build a persona.

The more I look bad, like the more I feel like I look quite ugly, the more G.K. Barry's coming out to like overcompensate for that. So that's where it sort of came from. Okay. Especially when I started. I knew stories are funny. If you look like shit, but also if you've got a bit of an accent that's strong. So like I remember at the time, people found people on Only Way's Essex really.

funny. Yes. So I was just forcing an Essex accent during my early, please don't find those videos, during those early times. And it worked. Video right here. There it is. There it is. But it worked. Everyone thought it was hilarious and they were, I started my videos of guys like that, really over the top and it became a thing. Everyone would be like, guys, like taking the piss out the way I taught, but in a funny way. And I was like, this is how you do it. This is how you get views. And I just stuck with that. And then it got to a point where I was like, Like, when do I speak normally? Do you know what I mean?

Like, when do I come out of that? Because everyone loves this persona. Yeah. Right, that was, that's created. And I have to put, whenever anyone comes up to me, I will absolutely put it on. Because also I don't want anyone to be disappointed. So I, once, it's my granddad's funeral, may rest.

This guy was holding his coffin. He's gone, can I get a picture of you? I've gone, yeah. But I thought that feels unprofessional. Yeah. So I had to get that out there. Yeah. But I can understand that there's this high interest in you.

But I guess what I want to understand, though, is how do you feel knowing that the interest is of you but not of you? You know what I mean? it's of because it's not like i think gk berry is not this far reach from who you are it feels like it's characteristics that you have that are just exaggerated yeah but it's not you day to day there's two i quite like it in the fact that it feels like i have a bit of me when i'm at home and i'm i've got an independence that no one really knows about and i can set up then work and not work. Do you know what I mean?

That that gives me a bit away. But when things go wrong or people have a negative opinion on me based on G.K. Barry, I get really pissed off because I'm like, if you knew, like a lot of people think that I'd be the first one in an argument to absolutely give it somewhere. I'd start an argument or anything. The idea of an argument is my worst. I can't. I can't do confrontation.

It makes me literally want to be sick. Like, I literally, I'm the least from that. But if you looked at G.K. Barry, you'd think you could go up to her and give it to her because she'd give it back. Sure, sure. Which is not the case. So that sometimes gets annoying for me. Yeah, yeah. So then with TikTok, at what point did you monetize it?

Because I would imagine that's when the career really took off. I So my manager Who's now my manager But she's crazy ginger woman Sends me a message And she goes look I either want to be your mate

Or your manager I've never managed anyone I don't even know what's it to grit But I want you to be the first So I thought Well I'm working at Costa And this is So August I reached

100K So like a year and a bit now We're in like November Okay. She's messaged me that and I've gone, right, okay. My first meeting with her, she was getting a bouncy blow drive of FaceTime and I thought this is my kind of woman. Exactly.

This is, yeah. She gets it. So unprofessional, but we both didn't know what we were doing at the time. She had like three clients at HLD at the time. Okay. Can I even ask too is why did she message you? What was it about you that she? She saw one of my TikToks and it was a really, really crude one.

It was me in the mirror pretending to give it someone going, your breath stinks and so does your pussy. And then they walk in and I'm like, hi, how are you? Like pretending, you know, that I wasn't going to say all that. Yes. And she said that's you are me in a younger form. And I think you're hilarious. So, and when I met her, we got on a house on fire.

And she was very honest. One thing about Hannah, she's always been very honest. She said, I don't know if I can make you any money because I've never done this before, but I'm going to give it a go. So I was like, okay. I then quit Costa, I'd say, in December. So November, December. Without having made anything?

I'd say I made about 50 quid. Okay, so all right. So you're already... I've done like one ads, which wasn't really an ad. It was, I think it was like a leg in. So they were like, can you just promote a leg in? And I was like, okay, I'll provide some leggings. And you pay, oh my, you know what, why did I think...

You're saying literally 50. 50 pounds. 50 great British pounds. Not 50 grand. Yes. That was the case. I left Costa straight away. Okay. You've been 50 pounds. 50 pounds. Okay. Yeah. But you were willing to at that point still quit. I was just like, do you know what? Love Costa. I love a cappuccino. But I just really want to commit to this. This is fun. Okay. Oh, and also you're living at home. I'm living at home. So you have this support. So there's no like stress of how am I going to pay? my rent. Okay. My mom and dad are.

So I had that ability to be like, do you know what? I'm just going to go hellful lever and post loads and loads. And I'd say it took about nine months for me to then have made a bit of money where I'm like, this is paying off. Okay. And then it went from there. Okay. Okay.

So what was the first project outside of TikTok sponsor? sponsored thing. As in like my podcast? Right, or like podcast or event that happened outside of TikTok where you were paid, where you saw the promise of a career outside of TikTok? I would say it was more when brands were reaching out and going, we'll pay you this to do a 30 second TikTok. And I was like, right.

And you don't want me to do anything else. So I'm like, okay. So now I'm getting, and I'm doing everything at this point because I've seen money and I'm like, I'm taking everything. So I'm doing every ad under the sun and I'm making money and it feels incredible. But I'm also at uni. So like I'm trying to balance that. But now I'm getting invited to events with like Molly May.

And I'm seeing how Molly May lives and I'm like, I have to live like that. and then I got offered my podcast. Okay. And from that, after the first week it came out, I was like, okay, this is, this is it. This is the career. This is it. The start anyway. Interesting.

And did your parents believe that there was a career there? No. They were like, and what are you going to do just quickly when this doesn't work? They were like, what are you doing? What are you talking on the internet? And also, I'd ban them from watching my stuff. Did you? I said, look.

If you love me, just don't watch what I post. Just take the benefits of it because I'm talking about some dreadful stuff on there that you will not want to know about. Wow. Okay. So, and they were like, all right, whatever. And they just left me to it. And you did it. So then from the podcast, which has been incredibly popular and successful, what was the next move?

Or really, I guess, what was the first television project? Because I think with TV, what's so interesting? is that I always say that at the end of the day, 10 years ago plus everyone wanted to get on to TV. It was like, let me be online to get on the TV. Now it's, let me get on the TV so I could online. Online. Yeah.

So you were online. Yeah. But then TV, I think, becomes a credibility play. Right. It's not about the money. Because there's no money in TV. There you go. There's none.

There is something about being on TV that is, that's like, my dream. So Hannah had said to me, look, I think we should just try for any bit of telly. Like, I think you are perfect for it and we can help you. And I can't tell you how many meetings we had with commissioners or like just anyone, Channel 4. I see anyone that would just put me on anything. Please, like this is what I want to do. Everyone, absolutely not, no chance. Why do you think they said now?

Because I was a TikToker. And they said to me, they said, we don't have TikTok. Tokers on TV, that's not a thing. Then I started my podcast. All of a sudden, I'm a podcast host. The doors opened a bit. Different, yeah. Right?

So now they're like, okay, we'll pitch you as a podcast host. And the first show I ever did was stand up to cancer and it was don't look down. Okay. Where we went and lived in Austria to learn how to high wire walk to high wire walk across West Ham. And that then was, I would. say like the beginning of people from telly being like, oh, she's actually all right on telly. And then obviously I did a bit of loose women,

but I wasn't a panelist like I am now. I just as a guest, because I was rumoured for Strictly. Ah, okay. And they said, come on so we can talk about Strictly. I'm like, yeah, yeah. And then they invite me back, and then I get, I'm a celebrity. And then from there, I think it's just sort of. And then, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So then with I'm a celeb, I think that is, I didn't realize until living here for a while, that that is, I think, that's like the crowning show, I believe. Yeah. It's like you get on to I'm a celeb, you are considered it. And then from there, you can kind of command whatever you want. So once you got on, what are not only you feeling and thinking about who you're like who you, you are in terms of your career, but also

what are your parents thinking? I thought I was the charity hire because to be honest, I was like when I got a story well first of all I was like shit I've got to do the plane ride but then when I got over that I remember I was out there and I was in holding and my parents by the way were ecstatic

they knew this was mega. Yes. They got it they were like if anything they overdid it they were like you're going to get paps at your door grace so I was like let me calmed out. Okay, not that's big. So I remember everyone's so excited for me. I'm still in denial about it

because I'm very stressed about what this show is and what I'm going to have to do. So I'm in fight or flight and I'm currently in flight, right? So I'm in holding and my hair, I just needed a bouncy blow. So I was like, listen, I need you to take me to the hairdressers.

I've got no phone or anything, right? takes me to the hairdressers and he's like, one minute, I'm literally just going to go take a call but no problem. I pull this hairdresser and I say, you need to give me your phone because I'm going on, I'm a celebrity

and I just need to see my announcement post because I like or hate me. Oh, wow. She's like, no way, bye, because she can. Like, fuck it, amazing. So she's doing my hair, I'm scrolling now through my post. Every single comment, who?

Who is this? Who? You know, like the usual. Because I'm a social media person. And if you don't follow me, you won't know. Yes. So it was very negative.

Apart from people who knew me, it was very, very negative. So I went in, like, I have absolutely nothing to lose. No one likes me already. No one knows who I am. So what will be, will be. And I think that actually helps seeing that.

When you saw that, do you get like the same feeling that you had back at school again? Like it's me against everyone. Yeah, it was just like, I have to prove myself again. And also I'm very aware that this is a very different audience that aren't, they're not my age.

I'm very crude. A little bit. Thank you. But, you know, I'm very, my mouth will get me in trouble a lot because I can never read the line between speaking to someone who's a bit older than me and not. So I was quite worried about that. And, yeah, I just went in and was like, I'm terrified.

I was so, so. I've never been that scared in my life, even to this day. Wow. And then I just did it. And when the rev came in, I could relax a bit. But that was, yeah, one of the most terrified. And also, I didn't know what people were thinking about me on the... And I was starting to get voted for trials,

and I thought, this is either great or awful. So then when you come off of I'm a celebrity and you start to see what the news was, what's your impression of what you saw? Gop smacked. Because it was like I turned on my phone and everyone liked me and I wasn't even putting on GK Barry

like everyone was like you did amazing or like even stuff I didn't know was in there like talking about coming out or talking about how awful my skin was in there and I didn't really care it was somehow managed to impact people and I didn't realize that for me was like wow

like the power of this show is insane yes yes Did you ever think, like, I wonder if all of these people at school watch this? Oh, I knew. Oh, you knew. Because I would. If someone from my school went on, I'm a celebrity, I'd be sat every night, like, let's go. Like, I need to watch this.

So, yeah, I would assume that they did. And they probably got the shock of their lives with the state of me in their yellow hair, acne. But yeah, I'm hoping that maybe when they saw that as well, I don't know. Like, I'm hoping maybe they were like, oh, she's actually all right. Not me still want it in their approval. But I was, yeah. Yeah, but you do, it sounds like. You would have hoped that they were, yeah.

Yeah, but I think that was the best thing that could have happened to me. Yes. Was that whole show. Yes. We have a lot of big conversations. on this show, and yes, they sometimes get challenging, but they're always worth having. So let me ask you this. Is perfection getting in the way of your piece? If so, it might be time to take off the pressure and add some ease to your routine. For me, ease looks like getting in

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From a career standpoint, where do you go from now? I mean, obviously I know that you have a book coming out, right? And I think this is great because it unpacks your life. But how would you characterize the book? What does that mean? Or how would you describe the book? The book is... Because I've been offered to do books before, and I was always like, no, I've got nothing to say.

So when they finally came to me, I was like, right, if I'm going to do a book, I need to make it so open and honest, things that haven't said before, but I need to make sure the book, I've got a very young audience, and I want to make sure if they read it, they take something from it. I want to make sure people take something from it. I didn't want it to be like a stupid, I mean it's a bit stupid in some of the chapters, but. But, you know, just a stupid book that you read and that's it. Yes. I wanted to make sure there is stuff in there that I could really give to others, if that makes sense. Yes, it does.

So now is the time you think to be able to... Yeah, I think because I'm... I don't feel like I fully always said everything because I've been very scared of what people are going to... The common theme, what people are going to think. But now I feel like I'm sort of, I've just past that. And I feel like I've seen other people and they literally put all of their shit on the table. And it will help at least one person.

And it's like, that is incredible that you can do that. Yes. And I would like to be able, because unfortunately people do look up to me. Some people do. And I do feel that pressure a little bit. So I'd like to be able to give something to those people. Yes. Yes.

So now I know there's a story. There is a story. And I was, you know, and this is probably the worst way to segue into the story, but. It was not a good way, so this was. Yeah, yeah. I can't believe that I'm no longer shocked about these stories. Yeah. I was originally, but now that I've educated myself and I've removed myself from ignorance, I'm no longer.

Yeah. You know, but it doesn't take away the pain, you know, of being aware of it. But as much of the story that you'd like to tell, I think it's a very important one. Yeah. And I think it will truly not only help, but it could save lives. Yeah. Well, this is the only podcast that I will talk about it on because I'm happy to go into it with you. All the rest of them, I can just read the book.

But so when I was at college, so after school college, you had to do work experience to pass that specific course, right? Okay. And I was like, I don't read. I'm doing media, so I'm just going to do something sort of related to that. Anyway, I found one. And I put in my CV and the guy there, he was about 27. he was quite attractive, really friendly. And he was like, okay, give me your number, blah, blah, blah.

And now I've got work experience with him. I'm 17 at the time. So I've got a car, but can't drive it. So my parents are both working, and he says, I tell you what, why don't I just pick you up? I'm like, yeah, that's fine, whatever. So he picks me up. And we've also been texting a little bit since prior to this.

He's being a little bit flirty, but he's an older guy. So for me, I was like, okay, but this is probably normal. It's quite cool that, you know, like an older guy is taking interest in me. And I can't remember if it was on the way to work experience or the way, but I want to say it was the way back from my first day. He was like, yeah, we're going to go to the park. Is that? Okay. Take your time with it.

Okay, right. He was like, we're going to go to the park. And I immediately knew what that meant. Even though he didn't have to say it, I was like, oh, okay. And I was like trying to make sort of excuses to be like, oh, like, you know, you can just drop me home, it's fine. He was like, no, no, no, we're going to go to the park. And I was like, all right. And I remember on the journey, I was like, please let there be someone in the park.

because if there's someone in there he'll probably just give up and be like, let's go home. Well, there was no one in the park. So anyway, I ended up having to do stuff to him in the park and then he dropped me home

and then I was like, right, well, I've still got a week left and if I don't go back, I'm not going to pass my course, I'm not going to get to uni, all these things going on my head. So I was like, right, just get your shit together and go. And that was the only thing that happened for the start of that week.

And then it got to the last day. And he didn't, on that day, he didn't pick me up or drop me off. My mum did. And went to station, it was all fine. And then it got to a point where all, and it was only men that worked there. He went, you guys can go to the other people. And I was like, oh God, because at the place where I did it, you lock the door when you leave. It's never open.

So I knew when they left, the door was locked, right? And I was like, okay, maybe this will be fine. And then he says, this room's got no cameras. I was like, okay. He said, yeah, come in the room. So I was like, right, okay. And then basically, he raped me in there. And then afterwards, I remember there was a toilet right next door.

And I was, I'm just going to quickly go to the toilet. And I was wearing white jeans and a long, like, grey coat. Sorry. And I put on my coat, which was long, and I just wrapped it round me. And then my mum came and picked me up. So I was like, right, I'm just not going to say anything. I said, thank you for the work experience. I said thank you.

And then I left. And then I put my trousers in the washing bin, and my mum was like, what has happened to your trousers? I was like, oh, I've just started my period. Then I didn't say anything for how much. ever long. Now I'm back at college and my tutor's come over to me and gone, oh, so and so is going to do work experience at that place. And I'm in like a catch, 22 of, I haven't told anyone and I was very happy to not tell anyone, but now I feel like I need to. So I said to her, look, without going into detail, something inappropriate happened to me there. She got the gist of it.

anyway she said right well because you're under 18 we need to call the police and you need to tell your mum the mum part was other side no there's there's absolutely no way that you cannot we don't talk about sex we don't talk about anything we're very like we don't do that well how to do it and I remember they called her in and we're sat in the just me and my mum sat in the canteen there's still people sat around, they were doing after school things, and I've had to tell her, and she's just been like, what? I don't understand, like, I've taken you there, and you know, why haven't you told me? Like, more in shock, I think. Anyway, then we go in, speak to the college about it, the police say they'll get back, whatever. And then, I think about a week after. And then, I think about a week

after this woman came in from the police and said, you want to sit in my unmarked cast, we can just have a conversation. I was like, yep, cool. And she just says, look, because it was so long ago, you didn't report it, and you were honest and said you flirted with them at the start, there's just no point reporting it.

I think you'd just be best to leave it. Yeah, it's your choice, but if I was you, I wouldn't. I was that right, that's fair. Fair enough, I won't then. and I got out of the car and then I just didn't speak to anyone about it for about five or six years and I've never spoken to my mum about it again

I don't know if my dad really knows the only time is when I was writing this book and I called her to say I feel like it's important to add this in can I and she was like yeah you can do what you want I think it's important too but we haven't

yeah spoken about it I haven't talked about it yeah yeah first thing is thank you for sharing that. And I have so many thoughts. I have so many thoughts. And we can stay on the topic as long or as short as you want. I think the most important thing to underscore

because I heard you mentioned what that police officer said, why you shouldn't report it because you were flirting. I think it's very important to understand. underscour flirting is not consent. Yeah. Silence is not consent. Complying to something because they have removed your options. Yeah.

The perpetrator has not given you any options and you have to comply. Yeah, it's not. That's not consent. Yeah. But I think that's why I didn't for so long because I went years being like that was just my fault. The best thing I did was actually tell someone. It was like my best friend at the time. I just said it. And as soon as I said it, I was like, oh, I feel so good that I've just shared that with someone. I was so scared about her reaction because I thought she'd be like, yeah,

why did you, why did you do that? But straight away, she was like, he was your boss and knew you couldn't say no. Right. And also 27 and 17 is a very weird. age dynamic and sort of confirmed to me like no that wasn't your fault and then it took me it's been like 10 years now but it's taken me this long to fully be like no that was actually really wrong yes but it took me a very long time do you and and do you understand none of that was your fault do you yeah you do okay I don't know I get a bit nervous sometimes. No, I think I think that's incredibly important because none of it was.

Yeah. None of it was. And I just want you to know that none of it was. Yeah. And you're incredibly brave to share the story. And there are going to be many people who hear it. Yeah. That's what I'm scared of. And well, no, you know what? And they are going to feel seen. Yeah. they're going to feel heard. Right? You know, these are statistics that are horrible to have to say, but one in four women have been raped or sexually assaulted. Six in, this is what blows me away, six in seven of these cases are women who have been assaulted by men they know. It's

And but that's the thing right Is when I was the reason I wanted to write this is because When I thought of rape I thought it was a man Jumping out at you in a dark alley And like aggressively tackling you to the floor and raping you That's what I thought Was rape

And when it came to someone that I had I had known and was It has started off nice to me That's when I was like I don't is it, I just got confused by that because I'd never also been taught that. You don't get taught that, especially when I was at school.

So that's sort of why I wanted to put it in there because rape can come in so many forms. It can come from one of your best friends. Yes. Because if last minute you don't want to do something, you shouldn't have to do it. And even though at my time was very scared to say no, there was such a big power imbalance.

Yes, yes. That at his age he should have known that was really wrong. And now I'm his age now, the thought of doing that to someone, let alone the fact they're 17 is, yeah, horrific. So that's why I'm now like, no, this was wrong and I need to speak about it. Yes, yes, yeah.

Yeah. And incredibly brave to do so. Incredibly brave to do so. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. This is all grace today. Yeah, Jesus. It's all grace today.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm loving and feel honored to get to know grace, truly. Well, you're the only one I'd do it for. Can we talk about Ella? Of course. Ella's with you? Yeah.

Can I say this? And this is not me trying to gas you and Ella up, but I can see how much in love you and Ella are. Yeah, it's sickening, isn't it? No, you know what? It is beautiful to see. I want to go back to understanding how you two met, but I think the piece in the middle is us talking about sexuality.

Yeah. Because throughout our conversation, you've been talking about you and boys. Yeah. All right. So tell me about how you, how did you identify in college and when did you begin to fully explore your sexuality? Do what it is? Because I've always grown up quite small towns. It was always you get with a man. Okay. And in relation, I have been attracted to the men I've been with, right? That wasn't a lie. Those relationships weren't a lie. but I just didn't realize or even think that that was a possibility

and we had like two lesbians at my school they'd always snog at break time and I was like I was very didn't know much about lesbians I didn't get it I thought a lesbian it was an undercut but I thought that was what a lesbian was and I was like well that's not me so I'm not a lesbian and I'd never even

looked at a woman and thought, yeah, this is a bit, because I'd never allowed myself to, because I didn't think that wasn't me. And then I went to uni and I was, obviously I was just free at uni, I could do whatever I wanted. And I was like, oh, that's when I started thinking, girls are quite nice. They're quite attractive. I get on with girls, the emotional connection. I've been friends with a lot of boys,

and that connection is never there. So I started experimenting at uni with girls. Sorry, Ella. And it was always just sort of like a one-night stand thing because I'd get the fear the next day. I'd really overthinking it. I'd be like, oh, I can't believe I did that. And the fear,

was what? Just like, oh, like, I can't believe I did that. I'm really embarrassed. Oh, shame. Yeah, it was shame. I felt shame because I was like, that's not what I have grown up knowing. Like, I'd never really known a lesbian. I didn't, when I watched films when I'm younger, it's always a Prince Charming or

you fall for that guy. I'd never watched a film where two girls had fallen in love. It just wasn't a thing for me to see. then I was with someone and one thing about when I'm with men is they've never made it past a year or it'll be on a year and I'm like, I'm done I've never had, I can easily dispose

you're gone, I don't care and I'm not upset about it so then after my last breakup I got rid and I was like you know what? I really feel like I want to date women. I want to see what that's all about.

And I said on my part, I had Ella Tune in my podcast. Okay. And she's a footballer. And I was like, right, this is a call out. I want a female footballer. I've never watched football. But, okay, but at this point, though,

so are you saying that, you're saying this as G.K. Barry. Yeah. Also. Yeah. Right. And are you saying? saying it like facetiously, like jokingly or...

I'm saying it, say me as a... I didn't actually want a footballer. That was like, it's just because I had a football on the pod. I was like, fuck it, I'm going to say I want a female footballer. You've got any mates. But I knew I wanted, I just had a feeling. I was like, I just really want to date a woman. I really, I want to see if I'm...

Because I know I'm attracted to them. But what allowed you to be able to say? say it publicly and therefore not carry the shame that you had previously. Do you know what is? Since being in this industry, my friends are gay men. I love gay men. I connect with them like I have never connected with anyone before. Most of my team is gay apart from my makeup artist, but she's got the pass. And also this isn't any like my uncle, a drag queen, like I've been, my parents have always said to me from literally like three. We don't care if you're with a man or a woman. If you're happy, that's fine.

So I'd never had any of that. Oh, I can't. It was just mentally for me. Sorry, I did that call out on the pod and one of my friends' partners was like, so weird you've said that. And it was that night after the pod. I went over to theirs. He said, I met this girl on a cruise. Her name's Ella Rutherford and she plays for Charlton. Just look at her Instagram, see if you're into it. I looked at her Instagram and I was like, fuck my life. The ass on it. Her ponytail, everything about her, I was like,

she is beautiful and she's clearly driven. I'd never dated anyone driven before, but I could see she was driven in her career. I was like that. So I followed her. She then messages me. She has no idea who I am, by the way, at this point. Okay.

I find out later on she's had to ask her sister who's been like, that's G.K. Barry. Like, what are you talking about? She messages me, and she's recovering from a knee injury. She did her ACL. Something went wrong with that. She's had another surgery. And what I didn't know at this point was she was in the depths of, she was in a really awful, awful place. Yeah.

She was about to give up football. Wow. She was in a really awful place. And then I've come in and I've been like, look, why don't we just meet up? But for me, we can't go on a normal date because, one, she's injured, she's hobbling about the place. But two, I don't want someone to film me on a debt. I want to know this for myself and be certain because my last relationship was very public. So I was like, right, so she came to my house

And I remember I was At the house I was, I can't even explain to you, the anxiety I was nearly, I was gagging You were a beginner lesbian I was like baby gay Like I was like it was terrifying I opened the door

And she's there stunning And she comes in And straight away We're laughing I got a date where I got canvases and paint and we had to paint each other because I thought it was a very good icebreaker.

Yes. She stayed that night and we have lived together ever since. I promise you. The only time of the way we've had is the jungle. This is the longest first date I've ever heard in my life. You're so gay.

You're so gay. First day. Yep. That's it. She stays over. And that's it. She goes home to get some more clothes. She comes back.

And that's it. And that's it. And we've just lived on and off at hers at mine. Look at that. Yeah. And that's for how long? Two in a bit years now. Look at that.

She made it past the year mark. Oh my God. Yeah, that's big. That is big. That's big. So when did you introduce Ella to your parents? So we've got an app called Life 360, right? So you can always see where I am.

Yes. And I was always at her house. And I was saying to my parents, oh, I'm just at my friend. And Ella's, just at my friend Ella's, because at this point I was like, I don't introduce people to my parents until I've been with them for a little bit anyway. Because, you know, I just think that's respectful. And they're like, grace does, I don't sleep around people's houses. I like to be in my own bed. Friends, best friend, whatever, I like to be in my own bed.

So they're seeing me consecutively stay at this other house. This friend. This friend called Ella, who bearing a mind, I've moved to this random place. at this point, who I don't know anyone, and all of a sudden I've got this best friend I'm staying at. And they've come round one day just to see me, and Ella's there. They're getting on really well, and I have to drop them back to the train station. And my dad or my mum just goes, who is Ella? What is Ella to you?

And I just wear, she's my girlfriend. And they went, all right, okay. I mean, that was it. And then from then on, it's just been my girlfriend Ella. It was never... To know that they fully accepted it, because you thought they would.

Well, I was very scared because I thought, I know you've always told me that. Right. But when it comes down to it, are you going to feel a type of way? But they completely just accepted it. How did it feel to know they fully accept it? That was then or when I,

side relief because I didn't care about the internet. I didn't care about anyone else's opinions. It was just like my parents. Yes. All right. So this could be a tough question, but I'm curious. Okay. What do you believe it is that Ella loves most about you?

God. I think, and I could be wrong, but we're polar opposite. it. She is someone who is, she's outspoken. She will say, if she's got a problem with someone, she's going to tell them. She'll stand on business. She's, she's very outgoing. She's sporty. She, when she's angry, she's, she's, like she's, she feels her emotions, but and she'll show her emotions. And sometimes, especially during the start, she, because she's got ADHD, I feel like she struggled to regulate her emotions. And then there's me.

I'm very laid back. I would not say boo to a goose. I am someone that hides my emotions and it will only until I have to say it will I say it. And both of us being together, it's like yin and yang, like we will bring out the good qualities in each other. Yes.

Which I think, I would say I've helped her regulate and regulate her feelings and how she says it. Whereas she has then said she's brought on to me that I can say how I feel. And if I, if someone has upset me, I can tell them that they've upset me. So it's very much like that. It's like a balance. See, once again, proof that there's real love there.

Yeah. You know, because the, you know, have you ever heard or read any of these studies around how what people say is that if you're in a loving relationship, you live longer, you're healthier, all these things. Yes. Right. But you know where all of that comes from. It comes from the fact that a loved one helps you to regulate.

Yeah. The co-regulation, it helps you to reduce stress. Yeah. Right. And so ultimately, that's what's allowing you to be healthier, live longer, making more money, that kind of thing. It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

It took us a while as well. At the start, it was very rocky because we didn't, because it was so different. I didn't know how to handle her and she didn't know how to handle me because we both dealt with things very differently. Right. So she has to sit on her feelings and then just go for it.

Whereas I have to, if we're in an argument, I have to just be like, are you mad at me? Like what are you mad at? Can you just tell me quickly because I've got anxiety? Whereas she needs to stew on it to then be able to articulate it. And that was a big thing at the start. And I would imagine lifestyle too.

You know, so from me being involved with football, I understand how disciplined an athlete's schedule needs to be. Whereas I also understand being in a creative space how like all over the place we are. So all over the place, yeah, honestly. So it's like how do you, you know, how do you manage those two things? Yeah. Must be challenging. So it was difficult.

And also we have different lives in the fact that Ella is known in the football world. She's very known in the football world. And I'm known by the girls and the gays. So like having to then merge those two Was also quite weird Because it was like we'd I said I'm not I'm not showing Ella This relationship's private

No one's gonna know about her I'm gonna call her eyelashes Because she gets eyelash extensions And I'll talk about her But you're not gonna know who she is Two weeks later people have found out she was And said you know what yeah you're right It is Ella

And then everyone knew And that again was quite anxiety Provoking for me because I was like, oh, now everyone's going to have opinions. Yes. And I don't like opinions because I feel like they can get in the way sometimes or make you think the way you're not meant to be thinking. Yes.

And I didn't really like that. How do you deal with the negative opinion and negative commentary? Luckily, when I said that I was with a woman, because I've got the girls and the girl, everyone was like, yes, amazing, was so supportive and I had never obviously dealt with any homophobia. Ella unfortunately has. She's had a

very different journey with it. So I remember we were in Benadorm, my favourite place and we walked past a bar holding hands and all the men in the bar stood up and started clapping saying oh that's

they're wasted, that's wasted and I was like I've never I don't know what to do. But Ella is very good at being like, fuck off and leave us alone. And that has really helped. Because now I'm like, okay,

that's how you navigate it. That's it. Otherwise, I would not have a clue. Wow. Love it. I love it. I think it's time for another surprise. I think you deserve a surprise.

Oh, God. Okay. You ready for it? Yeah. I close my eyes. All right. Do I put me on doubt? Put your hand out.

And bam! Not another one. Another one. Another one. Another one. Another one. Right, who's this from? I'm terrified at who you've contacted her.

This was the hard one to get. Right, you ready? Ready. Hey. It's now a good time to tell you how beautiful you are. That was her first message to me. I know this is Ella. He-he, I'll stop flirting immediately or you'll probably cringe, correct?

I can't deal with when she flirts with me. I just want you to know how proud I am of you. I see firsthand how hard you work and how much of yourself you give to everything and everyone in your life. You have the purest and most beautiful soul, the funniest person in every room and bring so much light to our lives.

Your strong, smart, kind, gorgeous and have the biggest heart that I'm so lucky to be loved by. Please never forget that I believe in you. Why am I crying? because it's lovely. Can you edit in the crying to my parents one as well? Cool.

Please never forget that I believe in you on the days when you feel like you're not enough, I'll be there to remind you that you are. On the days, oh my God, Paul, I don't know what is in this room. I feel like you're drugging me to cry, allegedly. Where of life, wait,

on the days when you're proud of yourself, I'll be right there celebrating with you, wherever life takes you. Whatever challenges come your way. I hope you always remember that you'll never have to face them alone. I love you more than you ever know. P.S. I cannot wait to marry you

and grow old and wrinkly together. That was really cute. I love that. Bitch. I can't believe she did that. That was really cute. It was incredible. Oh, she is very articulate when she wants to be.

Yeah. What stands out to you most from that letter? That was just cute. about going through it together, because also I have been struggling with trying to give my time to everyone. So I feel like just knowing that she is just there regardless, is very nice.

Yeah. You know, now that I've fully, I feel like I fully know, you know you, I could see that. Oh, sorry. No problem. Ella is, is the person that you've always been searching for. Mm.

You know? Yeah, I don't know what was going on before her. Jesus wept. Yeah. It was, you could see how your life has, I always say like a great partner. Yeah. Level up with a great partner.

Yeah. You know. But it does make a difference. I was very happy when I was single, I was like, I can do this alone. Now, I'm a strong, independent woman, but having Ella has really, yeah, changed everything. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. It was having that person to support you, like vice versa. So, marriage oh god yeah marriage is in the future it is and I'm not completely off marriage

okay we're back so we're on the marriage train we're on the marriage train really yeah okay and it will happen and it will happen I know I'm the one doing it as well because I everything has to be my way or the highway so just to know everything's good I'm gonna I'm the one that's doing it

yeah yeah look at Look at that evolution of life. I know. From your earlier thoughts around marriage to now. Yeah. It's incredible. It's funny when you meet someone that it will just flip. Yes.

The script. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Where does the Prosecco come from? I mean, for you. The fridge. My mom loves Prosecco.

Okay. She always has. And it's become our thing. If I see my mum, we'll have a little Prosecco. We're very, we're quite a drink-heavy family. Okay. Which is funny because when I met Ella, they don't drink really. You know, she's an athlete.

So she's like, I'm not touching. But even she grew up, there wasn't really a drinking household. Where for me, Friday, Saturday, in the house, let's go. Like, we're having a drink. We're having a great time, especially during lockdown. But yeah, I've just always sort of grown up with it. And I know it's quite a bad thing to lean on, but it makes you feel so relaxed.

Like, I could do anything after a Prosecco. I don't know how that sounds. You thought about that. You're like, that sounds like, I've got a problem. I do not have a problem. I can go without it. But I just like it. Yeah.

I once did a pilot for a TV show and we had to make a coffin for ourselves. arguably a bad manifestation. And I made mine in the shape of a Prosecco. Of course you did. And that was, I thought that felt right. Of course you did. I'm sure you've been pitched a Prosecco brand.

Never. Never. No. Someone needs to get on that. I know. That's so you. Imagine I go sober in a couple years and I'm still having to like peg it out. You're not alcoholic prosceco then?

Was no point really. Can I ask you the final question? Everybody gets it. Okay. The question is, you've had some incredible conversations in your life. Which one stands out to you as the most memorable? Who was it with? And what did you learn?

It's really random. But I was filming celebrity sabotage with Joel Dommet was one of the people on it. Yes. And I remember him and Sam Thompson were like the highest energy ever. As soon as that camera came on, they were just incredible. And I remember going to Joel and saying, I just feel like I'm not sure why I'm here. I don't bring what you bring.

And I just, I don't think I have that for telly. I just don't think I fit in with that. And he, I remember he said to me, he was like, you have been hired for a reason. And basically, whatever room you're in, you deserve to be in, whether you're the smallest one in there or the biggest. I think everyone deserves a right to be in there and that you should believe in your source. And I am a believer in believing in your source.

Because even if when I'm on sets and stuff and I know I'm not the funniest or I'm the smallest, I know what I can bring to a table. And I think that's really important. Yes. That's powerful. That's powerful for everyone. Yeah. Yeah.

And shout out to Joel. Shout out to Joel. Joel's one of the good ones. I love Joel. He's lovely. Yeah. He really is. He's a great husband and father.

Yeah, he's like a saint. He has to have some sort of flaw, but I haven't found it yet. Yeah. He's not good looking. He runs a marathon. That's his floor. He's like incredibly good looking. Oh my gosh.

Thank you. Thank you. You're super beyond super. Oh, thanks, Paul. I've thoroughly enjoyed, even the crying bits. Yeah, I could see it. I could see it. You know, it's interesting is that you even joke through the crying.

I know, I can't stop. I'll joke when I'm dying as well. They won't take me seriously. They won't. I'll flatline their blood. Oh, shit, she was right. She's actually dying. Yeah, she's dead.

She's dead. Oh, it's too late. It's too late. Thank you. Thank you. That is it. That is it. I mean, I remember when we started the podcast,

I created a list. And now I'm really recall. It was 30 people that I had on the list and Grace was on it. What's so interesting to me is that if you fast forward two years, I didn't even realize that she watched the podcast, but to sit and hear her talk about how she watches it and therefore only wanted to come on when she had something of substance, to me that was super special. You see how she at 27, I consider her a young woman, how

She has done extremely well in a short period of time and how much more she has to achieve. But I think this notion of never give up, always have hope, you know, fight to the last breath, like all of those lessons I think you can pull from her story. Until this research, I didn't know there was a difference between G.K. Barry and Grace. I thought it was one person, you know what I mean? But now I see, no, G.K. Berry is a persona. It's a facade. It's a representative of grace. So that's my big kind of epiphany from the conversation.

What was it about Simon from the sidemen that led you to truly fall in love with him? I never talk about this kind of thing. We spoke the whole party. I think we went to sleep at 8 a.m. So then the wedding? Second best day ever. Second best day ever. Yeah.

What is best day ever? Hey guys, hey guys, it's time. Talia. Welcome back to my channel. I wanted to quit my job to do YouTube and music. All I did was that I didn't eat, I didn't sleep, I didn't speak. My first ever paycheck was like £0.000 and I was so excited. But then I was diagnosed with anorexia.

And people would say, I looked ill. That would really incentivize me. I'd be like, brilliant. That means it's working. That's when something just clicked. What am I doing? The world now knows you and Simon from the sidemen are together. People are horrible. In my DMs, I hope you die. And how did Simon embrace your autism? It was one of the things he liked about me. How autism is presented in the media is not how I am. I think, people forget that it's a spectrum, it presents differently in women. You've got the husband, the career, the child. How does it make you feel?

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