We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - He Hit Me Then Took My Car! Safiyya Vorajee Opens Up About Toxic Ex, Losing Azaylia & Truth About Relationship With Ashley Cain

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

In this deeply moving conversation, we hear the unimaginable grief of losing a child and how it reshapes every part of your life. In this episode of We Need To Talk, Safiyya Vorajee sits down with Paul for a powerful conversation about love, loss, and survival. She shares the moment everything changed - when she and Ashley Cain were told their daughter Azaylia had leukemia. From the hospital diagnosis to the months that followed in survival mode, Safiyya speaks with raw honesty about watching her child fight for her life, the strength it took to carry on, and the identity loss that followed. Safiyya also opens up about a past toxic relationship. From love bombing to being physically assaulted, she reveals the manipulation she endured, the moment she walked away, and how she found her power again. This is a story of heartbreak, healing, and the fierce resilience of a mother. Please note this conversation includes sensitive topics that may be distressing. We’ve included support charities below:  Samaritans: https://g2ul0.app.link/qcJLJLhBjTb Survivor's Trust: https://g2ul0.app.link/yh0NrvNsvTb      Refuge: https://g2ul0.app.link/td2zqEPpGTb MIND: https://g2ul0.app.link/Ne9MpdtBjTb    Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod  Follow Safiyya here: Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/Kmuns1I8qUb  TikTok: https://g2ul0.app.link/HygGF1N8qUb YouTube: https://g2ul0.app.link/cRr3dL4hrUb The Azaylia Foundation: https://g2ul0.app.link/lRx58dL8qUb Book: https://g2ul0.app.link/si63c6YhrUb (00:00) Intro (02:15) Safiyya's Family Growing Up (05:04) Safiyya's Early Problematic Relationship (17:31) Safiyya's Transition from Owning a Salon to Aesthetics (19:19) How Safiyya and Ashley Cain Got Together (27:08) Safiyya on Parenting and Having Azaylia with Ashley (37:17) Tinder Ad (38:19) Love Journal Ad (39:04) Azaylia's Illness (1:06:24) How Safiyya Dealt with the Grief of Azaylia's Death (1:10:51) How Safiyya and Ashley's Relationship Ended (1:22:48) Safiyya's Current Love Life (1:31:50) Would Safiyya Go on MAFS? (1:33:03) Safiyya's Current Projects (1:34:22) Most Memorable Conversation (1:41:15) Paul's Takeaways Tinder: https://tinder.com/en-GB ♥️Get The Love Journal now: https://bit.ly/lovejournal-mp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. Erasing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie's sleep solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's OLLL-L-Y.com. What was the moment where you crossed the line from friends to lovers? Never in a million years would have ever thought that I would have ended up with Ashley. He was partying so much. And this is where I kind of put on my arm and because before Ashley, I've been beaten.

My car smashed up. My friends and family removed from me. I just thought, I mean, I'm not having that anymore. I got a phone call to tell me to take Azalea and my daughter straight in to A&E immediately. That's where our life changed. They sat us down and said, your daughter has leukemia. I felt like let out as a mother who meant to protect you tried. She's passed away in my arms.

It's so hard to hear this, but I can't fathom what it's like to live it. Her lesson to me is to live without fear and be the voice for the voiceless. And we're going to start a charity at the Azalea Foundation, and that's the only thing that had kept me here through my grief. But after that was established, I felt worthless. I started gaining weight and not recognizing myself in the mirror.

I didn't want to be here anymore. Be proud of what you did, not just for Azalea, but for all the other mothers and fathers. They can learn strength through you. Saf, are you happy? My own identity is always in the shadow as being Ashley Kane's ex-girlfriend. However, I am ready to go back out.

I don't know what the hell I'm doing, but I am here. So how much of this happiness is about new romantic relationships? Someone sent a message. We've just hit 200,000 subscribers, and honestly, we're blown away. This started as a space for honest conversations and the fact that so many of you

have shown up means everything. If you haven't subscribed yet, it's free, takes just a second, and it helps us grow this community and bring you even more powerful episodes. Speaking of, our conversation touches on SAF's mental health, including an abusive relationship and suicidal thoughts.

If these topics are difficult for you, please take care while watching. We've added support links to the episode description. Let's get into it. So tell me about family. Who did you grow up around? You had half the family is from Manchester. Yeah.

But the other half is from where? My dad's family are actually from Burma. So I'm half Asian, half English. Okay. So they were from Burma, and then they ended up living in Preston and then Eton. You were biological mother and father. They were in a relationship for 14 years. Yeah.

And you were eight when they split. and the reason for their split was what? My mom was an amazing woman that was raising her two children and looking after business, they had 14 properties together. Oh, wow. She was working really, really hard and, you know, so was here. But I think it was the woman I was in the domestic relationship and not having that strength and never wanting to break her.

family. Okay. So I feel emotional. Her trying to keep it together for her children and positioning herself in a way where I wish as a grown woman now, she would have left way sooner. But I know she just wanted to keep the family together. And I think it was enough for her and she needed to reclaim her life and her safety back for herself. Yeah. Yeah. This is, I would imagine, we're talking about, what, 1980s, you know, where you were severely ostracized, I would imagine especially. She's in a Muslim community as well. So my mom went into a Muslim community.

So it was all very, I don't know, maybe very difficult for her to break from that whole community because she'd, you know, she'd gone into Islam and she'd, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, really difficult for her. The one part that I really struggled with was my dad not being there when he said he was going to be there. So he would always say that he was coming and he wouldn't come. And then I'd wait near the door for hours and hours watching out of the window for him to arrive and he wouldn't come.

And I noticed that my behaviour started changing in school. I'd gone from a really soft girl to this person that was being. being mischievous, answering back. As you are going through adolescence, you said that you're a bit mischievous, you're acting out, right? How do your relationships form during that time, too? I always had like a good group of girls around me.

My circle is always, throughout my life, has been very ambitious girls and a strong woman's unit from my mum and my aunt is all the way through to my friendship circles. I've always had good women, like, focused and strong. Relationships I've made an absolute mess with. I ended up in a relationship, a domestic relationship, in my early 20s, and I did not even see that come in. For how strong and how much I'd watched and seen as a child and grown up through, I didn't see that one come in.

I cannot tell you how many incredibly strong women that I talk to, enter these relationships that become the slippery slope to what ends up being very traumatic, right? So how do you think, how did that relationship form? How did you go from, I'm strong, right, and I'm independent to being trapped in what what sounds like was a traumatic experience? It was the initial love bombing, as I see. now. Through that period of time, I was feeling lonely. I was feeling like I needed a partner. And although my career and my work was doing really well, I felt empty. Like, I needed, it'd be nice for me to go to the cinema with somebody or go and have dinner or go on a date

or do something. I had a lot of guys around me that wanted to take me out. But I wanted that relationship because I just always feel like I want that base of safety. And he came in and he gave me that bang straight away it was just like oh my god like he wants to take me for dinner um we're doing this together we're going to like fancy hotels and we're eating great food and we're going out shopping and he wants to go on holiday these are all the things that i'm like oh my god like yes i found this guy and then these things were coming in gradually and i was really like oh like i thought that you'd like me wearing this or I thought you'd think I'd look pretty if I would look like that. And slowly, but surely he was chipping away at me mentally without me even noticing. I just thought everything

I was doing was wrong or I was trying to be too much. And then I felt like I was shrinking. Yeah. Yeah. You know what's so interesting about that is I always say that, you know, you can, you're never too much to the right person. Yeah. Right. And so it's this idea of he's intentionally, making you feel this way because his objective is to make you small and dependent on him, right? This is what I notice is the pathway to men and women who manipulate their partners, right? So I would imagine that when he's verbally saying these things to you, that he's not doing it in public, he's doing it in private. And then you're driving in the car and what happens? Yeah.

So I was driving in the car. I obviously can't remember what the conversation was about or disagreement was about, but then he just whacked me straight in the face. And then I stopped the car. He opened the car and pushed me out the car, jumped into the driver's seat, and then I was just left,

and he drove off with my car. And it was actually somebody's phone that I had to borrow when I was out to ring my mom to get my mum to come and collect me and take me home. Oh, my God. So when your mother picks you up, do you tell her what happened? Yeah. Okay.

I was honest. What did she say? She told me that we'd get the car back and never to go back again. Okay. And then what did you do? I went back because I felt like it was my fault and it was insane. From that moment, my mom tried everything to make me not go back. And I was secretly then.

meeting him. Yeah. So you didn't just go back for the car. You went back for the relationship. Yeah, because he was so sorry. And he'd never done that before. And he don't know what came over him. And he loves me so much.

And he'll prove the world to me. Yeah. Okay. Four years in. I stayed. Okay. Did it happen again? Repeatedly.

Constantly, repeatedly to the point where I wouldn't, I would mask everything, absolutely everything. And I was, I got to the point where I was in the gym one day and this girl was waiting outside the gym. Crazy story. She was waiting outside the gym for me. Come out, she's come over to my car and knocked on the window and said, hey, like, are you Sophia?

Yeah? Oh, I need to talk to you. about your partner my heart's pounding thinking what's happened to him I was actually worried there's something happened to it and she got in the car

and basically told me that she'd been seeing him and she thought that I deserve to know because he keeps telling her that he's going to leave me but he hasn't left me yet and I didn't go mad at her

I didn't do anything I said to her will you do me one favour I've been in the worst place of my life for the last four years, please can you come with me to my house and say this in front of him because no matter what you send to me, what you give me, he will manipulate me and tell me it's me going crazy or I'm just listening to outside noise and or maybe hit me because I've come back

with these things, allegations. Please, please, will you do me this favour? She said, yeah. So we drove her car and my car down to my house And she was nervous She was so scared because I told her the story of me being abused as well Gone through the front door Shouted him to come downstairs

He walked through the arch And he looked and he went Who's this? Who's this, Saff? And I was like, who's this? I said, I'll let you say who you are And then she said, who's, then she went on to say, who's this, you've been seeing me, you've been telling me you've going to leave her. At that moment, I knew, and I had two dogs, I had my house, I had a salon at this point, I forwarded in time, because I ended up getting my own salon.

I had everything there. And it took me a week. I went and dropped her back to her back to her car, and she safely got off. I came back and he'd put holes through the cupboards in the kitchen. And I was terrified to go back into that house. And this is where I kind of put on my armour. And I thought, I've been hit, I've been beaten, I've had things thrown at me, I've had my car smashed up, I've had my friends and family removed from me.

And if I'm going to go and take one last beating, I'm going for it now. And I just thought, I'm going back in that house and I'm not going to be bullied anymore. And I was petrified. I thought as soon as that door opened, I literally thought he was coming to coming at a attack me. In fact, he was the opposite who had sat there and told me it was because I worked too much and he didn't have anybody to spend time with. And I was like, wow, wow, I am not buying this anymore. And I'd sat there and he really wanted me to stay. I ended up sleeping on the sofa for a week. I still didn't leave, didn't tell my mom, didn't tell anybody

because at this point they're sick of hearing it. It's the same stuff over and over again. What's any different? So I sat there with myself and I thought, what are we going to do here? I ended up ringing the Samaritans. Did you? Yeah, stayed on the phone for three hours to this gentleman.

And at the end of that conversation, he said, and I don't know if you realised, but I haven't even spoken for the last two hours. He said, you have just poured and made your own decision. He said, I'm not here to tell you what to do. He said, but you've just gave your answer right there. And I thought, yeah, I have. I went back to my mum's house and she and other family members went and collected all of my belongings.

I had injunction out against him. I'd put my statement into the police for protection for me. I was absolutely petrified that he was going to get his hands on me. Yeah. One thing I have to ask is because current, Currently, there's so much conversation around this Diddy trial. Yeah. In particular questions around how could, you know, Cassie, for example, stay with someone

who was, stay in a relationship where there was domestic violence happening repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly. This is interesting. You were in this relationship for four years. You have a strong mother, friends and family who are, you know, strong. and who they are in their identity. If we can, let's talk about trauma bonding, in essence. What do you believe it was now that you're removed from that?

And you've had therapy. Yeah. What do you believe it was that kept you in that relationship? And for anyone who believes they're in that same position, what can you suggest to them in order to break free? I thought it was love. I thought that's what love meant control meant love. And the crazy thing about it is I just can't believe that's what I thought love was, somebody manipulating me.

I felt like he was reteaching me things that I should be doing. I felt like he was the teacher and I was the pupil and he was teaching me about life and what I should be doing and directing me for my own good. and that is the scariest part and if anybody is in that part where they feel like they need to rely on somebody or think that they're teaching them how they should be, it's really, really the total opposite.

Okay, okay, fair enough. And it seems like that Samaritan's call was pivotal for you. Why do you think that was so important in helping you to step away from that relationship? It was important to me because it was somebody that... was completely separate to my situation. Yes.

Yes. This is so, it's so interesting that you said that. I was almost hoping you were going to say that because this is what I see is the common thread and why it is so important to make that call. What was the biggest lesson that you took away from that relationship of domestic violence?

To love myself. to honor myself and to never ever let anything emotionally and materialistically ever get in the way of what I know is right and wrong. Good, good. So then you exit that relationship, but, you know, professionally, you're doing well. You have your own salon at this point. Okay? So your salon is doing it all. Yeah. Right. So would I be able to come and get my nails done at your salon? Yeah. Okay. Hair, nails, tan, Botox, filler. I give filler. Yeah, I do great massages on that head. So you are an entrepreneur at this point, right?

You have a team. You're also, you know, you're running it. So what is your career? What is your goal now? Mine was, I was so afraid to stay in that salon and him knew where, him know where I was. every single day, I had to let go. Yeah, had to let it go.

I was petrified. I couldn't even open the shutters of my salon because I was scared that he were going to come in and do something to me. Yeah. So you let your business go. Yeah. And went on my journey to aesthetics.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. So the field of aesthetics is what, exactly? So Botox, filler, yeah, them kind of things. Okay. So can we talk about this for a second? Yeah.

Because it seems like Botox and fillers in particular have just skyrocketing. Yeah. In the UK in particular, right? I mean, this sounds like a silly question, but why is that? Because they've made it very easy now for people to go into an industry, which there does need to be a lot more barriers around this industry. industry, but they've made it so easy to go in and it's quick money for people. Quick, easy, fast money. For the hours you're spending in that aesthetic clinic to what you could be spending in

your job, it's a no-brainer. Really? People are going to go to somewhere where they can make quick money fast and transform their lives. Okay. What is that? What is the quick money and how much money are people making in the industry, in aesthetics? Paul, you can be making 10 grand a month, tidied month.

Okay. Yeah. I'm talking on a high scale of being, you know, your books are fully booked and you've got a great business and you're established and you're charging the proper rates as well. Because there's a lot of people in the industry that are trying to make smaller price list, so lower price list. Okay. So you could get your Botox done in my area for about 80 pounds, whereas I'm charging 250. Okay, I see.

You see the difference on the market. It's because people are taking them quick courses and they're just injecting. Now I understand. It's interesting. Now when we go back and I didn't realize how long you'd been in the industry. So you were in there by, what was it, late teens, early 20s? For aesthetics. Aesthetics in my 20s, yeah.

20s, yeah. in your 20s. So then in the 20s, you mentioned this is also where you meant. Ashley. Ashley. I smile because it's, yeah, he's great. Yeah. So we had Ashley as a guest.

Yeah. And I'll say he's the only guest that we've had that has successfully been able to rock a vest. Did he come with a vest? Oh, of course he did. The vest. I was like, I know he's got his shirt somewhere. It just had the best. But I'll tell you what, Ashley could do that, though.

Yeah. He could successfully pull that off. That was my second time meeting Ashley. I had met him backstage on Good Morning Britain. Yeah. Previously. And I just adored him and his work ethic and how passionate he was. And in the story that you told was just it was heart wrenching.

But you meeting Ashley, though, for what I'm, understand is when you met Ashley, you didn't tell anyone. Or when you started dating, you didn't tell anyone. Yeah. Yeah. It was really funny because me and Ashley had been friends for like 10 years prior to that. Okay. And he was younger than me.

So I would never entertain somebody that was younger than me. I just always had this. I like older guys. Okay. So I always used to think, oh, he's like one of the lads and we've got a circle of friends together. So we'd go, you know, we'd. all go out together and we just had this really great friendship and I never in a million years would have ever thought that I would have ended up with Ashley. Really? Yeah, I'd known him that

long. Never. He used to sit in my salon and we'd go through his little DMs of when he'd come off X on the beach. He'd come off his on the beach and we'd be sitting on the couch there and go through the DMs of how crazy they were. Yeah. Yeah, like we was full on Red Rinds. Wow. So how do you go from Red Rederin to truly best friend and lover. It was insane because we'd spent so much time together that I've started to learn him and he started to learn me. He knew that I came out of this relationship as well

and he couldn't get his head around how I was this strong person that everybody knows me of and that I could end up like that. So he really spent that time like conversating with me and I was conversating about his life. He was with a partner or just coming out of a relationship at that time as well.

And, you know, I thought, oh, the deal breaker for me was when he carried my mom's bags from Liddle. And my mom said to me, oh, he's a real gentleman. Okay. Yeah. And slowly but surely,

it just, I was going around. He was doing DJ sets in different parts of the country. And then I'd go to him. I'd go with him to these sets or I wouldn't be drinking because I'm not really a drinker. I need one of drinks. I'd be like, oh, I'll drive and then we'll just go and then we'd come back home. So it started forming to the point where we ended up sharing hotel room together,

sleeping in the same bed and still nothing like just literally friends. Friends. Yeah. Look at that. Yeah, it was to that level of friendship. Friendship. So what was the moment where you crossed the line from friends to, I'll call it lovers.

Yeah. It was at my mom's house. Sorry, Mom, if you're watching this. No, he was about to be diabolical. No, it's crazy. Okay. He would come around to my mom's house and he'd watch a film or like he'd have a couple of beers and just chill out to the point where it kissed me on my mom's sofa.

Yeah, and I was like, and at this point, you know when you, I wouldn't hit him to? I really wanted him to when I'm thinking, I am not going to do that and embarrass myself. You know, I, maybe it was the body language over that time where it started to become more closer. Yes. And then he felt comfortable to. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So can we get technical on us? Yeah, we can. It's because it sounds like you had wanted to kiss him prior to that. Yeah. So what stopped you from expressing your feelings? to him before that moment. My previous relationship and the promise that I gave to myself

that I will never go into something now blinded. And it was an insecurity from that relationship of feeling like, would I be rejected? Am I good enough? Would he want me? It was all of my own insecurities where I felt like that's not right for me to do it. And I felt it's more of a job.

gentlemanly move. Okay. I'm an old school girl. Like, I like that. All right, fair enough. Fair enough. So he then tried to kiss you. Yeah.

You allowed him. Yeah. Right? It was consensual. Yeah. Right? You allowed him. And then at that moment, then you break away from the kiss.

Now you've crossed the, the friend's line. Yeah. What do you say to each other? That's crazy, bro. That's wild. Like, what the hell is going? on here. Oh my gosh.

That's so good. That's so good. You know, I love that you two were friends first. And it allowed you to form this emotional connection. Yeah. What a story with myself and my wife is that, you know, we were friends first. Oh, lovely. So before, now, Sophia, I always knew.

Yeah. Did you? I was always plotting and planning. No way. I mean, from day one. No way. I was like, this is going to be a long-term plan. Oh, Joe.

I was like, however long it takes, this is my plan. But we were friends. And she saw me as a friend, so we were friends. To the point where she was dating when are my friends. Right. So we were friends. But I think that friendship, what it allowed us to do is it allowed us to be able to talk about the deep stuff. Yeah.

And then emotionally intertwined. And then once that emotional intertwining happens, you feel safe with that person. Yeah. I really did with Ashley. Yeah. I really did. Wow. So it's beautiful.

Did you, did you officially get married? No. We was never engaged. You too? Never engaged. No. So can I ask why? Thank God there weren't no paperwork now, right?

But can I ask why? Because you strike me as, and you say you're a traditional girl? Yeah. Right? He's a traditional guy. Yeah. Right. So did that ever, was that ever a topic?

It was a topic. I was never that girl that ever. dreamed of marriage or dreamed of wearing the dress because it petrified me. I was scared because I didn't want to feel trapped again. I didn't want to feel like I can't get out of this. And so there was never no pressure from me. I was more happier. And if he wanted to do it and he proposed, I would have said yes.

But I never ever wanted to put pressure on a man in my life ever, even going forward to put a ring on my finger, it has to come from their heart and their soul. Wow. Yeah. But truly, did you want to be married? Yeah. After having Azalea, that would have been my next step. Okay.

Yeah. It's to be married. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough.

Can we talk about Azale? Yeah. All right. Someone who is interesting because I was unaware of her until meeting Ashley at Good Morning, Britain. But what's interesting is that. I have now, as a result of her, I've done enormous research. Oh, right? And it's interesting.

She's changed my life. Oh, wow. That's so beautiful. You changed my life in terms of awareness, in terms of the research that I've done. And I think about how many lives she's touched. It's just, it's endless, right? So you had, I'm assuming, this is first time you were pregnant. Yes.

Okay. Yeah. All right. So now marriage wasn't necessarily a dream. it's something that you would have liked to have happened, was being a parent a dream for you. Ashley insisted on us having a child way before I agreed to start having a child.

And that was solely because I wanted to make sure that the child that I bring into this world has got a protective father that although I had my stepdad and he's done an incredible job. job that has their biological dad that's going to love them and protect them, regardless to what happens between myself and him, that he or she at that time would have had family another side of the family to go to and have that love and that safety.

And for me, I'd never had children and been very careful to not have children because of these insecurities of my own childhood. Wow. Yeah. You know, and that's not unlike so many people who've gone through the trauma of not having a supportive biological parent. So how did you test that? Paul, actually is a tough cookie. Let me tell you, I gave him a choice and that was to get in a relationship.

And that was, you can't just have me at your beck and call like this. That's not going to happen. We ain't going to roll like that. You make a decision. If you want to continue to keep living this crazy life that you're living, please go and fulfill it for as long as you need to fulfill it for. However, this is my boundaries. This is what I will accept from as being in a friendship to being in a relationship.

This is what I expect from my partner. And he said, no, that's what I want. He was like, honestly, ask my manager, like, I've been talking about I want to, like, settle down and I want to be with like my woman and, you know, the mother of my children and all this kind of talk. So I was like, OK, prove it then. You know, you've got, I gave him three months. I said, you've got a three month window. If you really want me, you will show me within your behaviour that you will.

You know, none of this craziness and going out and coming back at this time, like, show me what kind of man I want. Okay. He did. Wow. You gave him the 90-day test? Yeah. make a film after this. The 90 day test.

Yeah. So I'm curious. Headlines. Ashley Ken got the 90 day test. There you go. That's the headline. What was the test? It was just slowing down the pace.

So not stopping who he is as a person. It was just slowing down the pace of going out so much, partying so much. And obviously it was difficult as well because he was DJing. It was like you're in that environment. So it was kind of like go to work. Go and get paid. Come home.

Like, you don't need to be staying out there. Like, make your money and come home. But then he'd always party after. Gotcha. So it was like, right, come on, rain it, and show me why I need to be with you. But if you don't want to, then that's fine as well. Okay. I didn't mind.

Okay. Didn't mind. So clearly he passed the test. He passed the test. We're flying colors. Even his family were surprised. I were like, damn. Look at that.

Even his dad said, it needs a woman like you. Was this your first healthy relationship? Yeah. So your first healthy relationship, you have the support of not only your partner, Ashley, but also his family, saying, we support you. I would imagine your mother is all in. Yeah. Because your mother, because he's carrying your mom's bag. Yeah.

Right. So your mother's all in. Your friends are, they said it'll never last, but they're supportive of them. Yeah, yeah, of course. So everyone in your village. Yeah. right, is supportive. What did that mean to you in that moment?

I felt whole. I feel emotional. It was so beautiful because everybody were getting on so well. I suddenly felt like a unit, a family. My heart was bursting, his was bursting. He was thriving and doing so well in his work and so was I. Yes. Yeah, it was so amazing.

Yeah, yeah. It almost feels like that whole adage of iron, And iron just sharpens each other. Yeah. And you two were like one plus one equals five. Yeah. That's exactly. Wherever we will go in, whatever room me and Ashley were in, it was like, if that room was

tired, me and him would be like, we're here. Hi. You would bring it. You would bring it. Yeah. Wow. I didn't realize that you were testing him so much going into this. But I would imagine that that's, you know, it's interesting.

I'm asking myself how healthy is that I feel like it's extraordinarily healthy because what you were doing is it wasn't like necessarily a test. You were creating boundaries around what the requirement was to be in a relationship with you. And to me, that's the epitome of self-worth. You were saying, this is my value. So if you want to tap into that, you better level up. Yeah. Everything is good. Yeah.

Right. You two decide that you're going to have your child. and you do. All right. So walk me through. First time that you see Azelia, you know, I remember, I think as a parent,

you never forget that moment, describe that moment. I had an emergency C-section. So I was actually rushed straight into theatre. They wanted to put me to sleep because I just, my body, I had an epidural, so my body was in full-on shaking.

and they said if her body can't calm down we're going to have to put it to sleep which meant Ashley couldn't be in the room and I heard this I remember just vaguely hearing it from a distance and I was like no no like he has to be here he has to be in the room

and then I remember being wheeled down the corridor being put into theatre and then them taking my hand and I because my background of nursing and we used to do sedation for people putting them to sleep for getting their teeth done. I could feel my hand being pulled up

like I were going to be sedated and I remember screaming like, no! Like honestly he could hear me down the corridor as I was so embarrassing. I was like, get Ashley in the room now! I was like, he has to be here. I didn't want to deprive him because of me, it felt like it was me,

of him meeting Azalea and bringing her in the world together. I wanted to do it together and I promised surgeon that I would stay still and I mean I've got drugs running through my body I could feel my arms like trembling and I really just gritted in

and they brought Ashley into the room and then the next minute I felt like I could feel all this tugging in my tummy I felt like a washing machine and then I felt like I was being lifted by a crane I was thinking like I felt like I was going to be pulled off the set-ins I mean, off the bed.

And then the next minute, all I heard was, oh yeah. And then I heard Ashley say, Saf, Azalea's here. Because I was just like absolutely finished at this point. Safra Azalea. And I remember like opening my eyes and seeing the purity. She didn't have one mark on her face. She was literally like an angel.

And she was so pure. and I thought, I did it. I did it. She's okay. She's here. She's safe. She's beautiful. And then I remember, like, we've got to stick you back up now. And at this point, all I remembered in my head is Ashley cutting the umbilical cord. Because I'm like so strategic in making sure that I got everything done, I was like, Ashley, cut the umbilical cord because I took azalea,

so I could hear the noise of what was happening. And then he'd gone and quickly got up to go and cut the umbilical. cord. Yes. Because I wanted him to have that as a father. Yes. And then I just remember being like, do whatever you want to me now. Zalia's here, right?

Mm. So you go home. Yeah. And then what is life like in those first few days and weeks? It was really surreal. Like you don't get a manual with being a parent, but I am a very nurturing person. So it came to me really quickly. It also came to Ashley quite quickly.

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that something was off. So Azalea was getting colic. So I was changing her from being breastfed to then putting it on a bottle. So she was crying a lot. And they were saying it was because she might be hungry. And then it was cold type symptoms so she couldn't have no cowpole

because she was still so young. So we was trying everything. Nothing was working. As I've opened a nappy, I've seen there was a bruise on a kind of like between a hip bone and her tummy. Okay.

I thought somebody's been holding her and bouncing her a bit too hard. And I thought, oh God, like somebody's bruised her. But because of my background in aesthetics, I put my finger straight over the bruise and there was a lump,

which then means something's happening in the body. Interesting. That is not right. You should never have a bump underneath a bruise. So my heart started pounding, like there's a lump in.

underneath this bruise, like, it's not okay. This is a sign of the body telling you that there's something not right. And then I ended up contacting the GP again and telling him what's happened. And he's like, don't worry, just monitor. Right. Me and Ashley was actually going to Manchester the following day. My mom was looking after Azalea. And, you know, I didn't want to leave Azalea because she's got like cold type symptoms.

And, you know, when babies are just a bit gunky and a bit grisly, I don't want to leave my baby, but she's like, go together. You need this quality time together. I'm going to be fine with Azalea. When we were over there, I got a phone call from the doctor to tell me to take Azalea straight in to A&E immediately. Me and Ashley had rushed straight back from Manchester. My mom's now in hospital with Azalea, and that's where our life just changed. Yeah, and they told us that she'd got a blood count of a white blood cell was at 200,

which is extortionate, which it should never be at. They sat us down and said, your daughter has got leukemia and needs to be rushed immediately to Birmingham Children's Hospital. Okay. Yeah. Now, when you hear this, were you aware of what leukemia was or what it meant? I had a very, I'll say an ignorant mind at that point, because I didn't take that time to know all of this.

information and a lot of us don't. No. Until you're ever in that position. And I didn't know what that was going to look like. Okay. No, absolutely not. But the main point for you was it's curable. Yeah.

We're going to get through this. All right. So then what then happens next? We go straight into Birmingham Children's Hospital where we didn't leave, basically. Yeah. We didn't leave. You know, I distinctly remember this conversation with Ashley because he said, that when he in the hospital that he shifted into a different mode you know it was in essence it was

warrior mode you know for my family um how do you recollect what mode you were in or what you switched into at that moment i was numb and i felt like i'd gone into nurse mode okay yeah um I knew I need to learn what is happening. All of this that I'm hearing around me, I need to learn and give my daughter. I need to absorb it. I need to know what's going on. Sophia had gone. That's a way to describe it.

Sophia had left the building. This new woman is here and we're going to war. Yes. Yeah. Yes. There's lots of studies around how trauma can tear apart a relationship, but also bring a relationship closer together. What do you think that in that moment, that trauma,

what was it doing to your relationship? I felt like it was bringing us closer and closer and closer together. I felt like I got my ride or die next to me and I got my daughter and there ain't nothing and nobody that is going to take this away from us. Yes. Yeah. Yes, yeah.

That echoes exactly what I'm. Ashley said. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. And so you were this tight unit, right? This tight unit. So then, what then happens?

Because I know that you were able to actually bring his L you home. I remember Ashley saying that he was able to ring that bell. Yeah. And by the way, for everyone that doesn't know the importance of ringing the bell. Yeah. So ringing the bell is really important because it means that you have been cancer. And it's such a special moment to ring that bell to know that you. have overcome to the next step.

So Azale had engrafted to a donor that she'd got and she'd been doing so well and she was literally on the road to recovery. We'd actually got home and got ready and got our clothes on and we look fresh and smart as a family to go and ring the bow. Ten minutes before we went to ring the bow,

we got told that Azale had relapsed. And that chokes me. was the most horrific news at that point for us, because we had fought so hard, she had fought so hard, we had come together and we had, you know, covered the whole of the UK trying to search for a donor. I'm just putting myself back in that moment, and there was no words.

We were broken, we just looked at each other and we thought, we had been defeated. but we had a conversation together in that room and we decided that this battle is not coming like we're not letting it win us she had engrafted she had reached 100% donor and she did

so why are we taking that away from her like we're going to go and ring that bell because she achieved that point so we're going to go back down there and we're going to ring that bell together as a family and we're going to celebrate the milestone that she achieved and we're not going to take that away from us. So we did. We literally, you know, I have chills thinking about that 10 minute conversation. That must have been one of the most

challenging conversations you've ever had in that moment to decide with everything that was placed on you because you just mentioned you had scoured the UK. So at that point, there were, I think, hundreds of thousands of people who had rallied behind you all in trying to identify a donor. Yeah. Right. So there was public support. Yeah.

She had over 80,000 donors on the register in one weekend. Like, phenomenal the amount of support we've had. So what does that mean exactly, a relapse? Yeah. So it means that the cancer is starting to come back through. She got cleared first with the chemotherapy. I'm just explaining it in terms what people could understand. So the chemotherapy will just wipes out your whole body.

then you put the donor in. It then ingrafts to the body. And it's like a new head gasket going into the body, basically. And the engine's starting to run again with that new donor's engine. And as it's running, they're now taking tests.

Great. We beat it. We've cleared it all out. We've got the new engine in. Great. What's happened is AML leukemia, which is what she had. Okay.

And AML in particular is Acute my lord leukemia. Okay. Okay. It then has a funny way of seeping back through the body and overcoming the head gasket. Comes back in and that's what happened. I see. I see. Okay. You know what? That explanation helped me. Yeah.

I didn't realize that's what that is. Yeah. So also in that conversation, what are you thinking about in terms of the ongoing fight? I had a really funny way of learning how to part mentalize things at this point and I was living in the moment for that particular time and that's how I learned how to get through my journey I wasn't trying to think about what was going on 10 steps ahead I was just facing each battle and each obstacle as it come

and that's what allowed me to fight so fearlessly alongside Azalea and Ashley of just taking each moment as it comes. Okay, okay. What a bittersweet moment with Azalea ringing the bell. Yeah, I rang that bow. We went down that corridor. We had all the nurses and the doctors.

Everybody was out and nobody knew this news at that point. And everybody was celebrating to the point where he rang the bow. And then my voice wasn't as articulate as what it is today because I just never used to know how to put such big, feelings into context and Ashley ended up speaking and telling everybody what had happened which obviously again it was bittersweet again we had to go home so yeah then feelings and emotions I don't know it's just all a blur and then it was going home and telling our family that was the hardest thing to go back and tell our family that was so excited and so proud

that we're going again but we're going again okay so we're going again. We're going again. And that was all we knew. We all we knew, all we kept getting told every step of the way is we could have lost Azalea in having a donor transplant.

We could have lost Azalea after a third round of chemotherapy. We could have lost Azalea so many times throughout. When my oncologist sat in front of me, she was an amazing woman, she'd sit in front of me and Ashley and tell us, we could lose Azalea at this next step. prior to her ringing the bell. And I used to sit in front of her

and I used to say, like, no, we're not. We ain't losing Azalea. That ain't going to happen. Every time they'd say, this is the percentage. I say it's not. It's not.

This is statistic. Like, everything in my head was statistics. And I was thinking, I'm speaking this into existence and I kept telling my lady, my oncologist in front of me, no, no, no, she's going to engraft. So every time she'd say,

she might engraft doors, this could happen. I'd say, no, no, no, no, we need to change a language. It is going to happen. She is going to graft. Very hard to graft to a donor. And they used to tell me, because she's such a small baby, and they used to say, we don't know.

And I'd say, mark my words. Every time she'd leave, I'd say, you're going to come in tomorrow and she's going to be a hundred percent donor. I'm telling you on the next results. Yes. And for her to probably witness that as me as a mother, I used to change the language in everything, and even still to this day of Azalea not being here,

I changed the language because I would speak it into existence. And she did, she engrafted. Yes. You know, and she did hit all of these milestones that they was even surprised. They'd walk into my room and be like, after this treatment, Azalea's not going to be able to sit up and eat. You know what that did to me?

I thought, you're telling me my daughter's not going to sit up and eat. I got my mom, she got me a bumbosite, put Azale in this bumbos seat to build her strength up. I would take food out I'd put my finger in it and just let her taste it even if she wanted to throw it at me play with the food

taste the food and every milestone I'd put her on her front even though she had the wires coming out of her to crawl I'm going to still give you your childhood whether you've got a wire on you

whether you're on chemotherapy you are still going to have your childhood and I'd gather that every step of the way to give her that strength and I believe that in these hospitals they are so incredible but you end up becoming a nurse rather than a mother and I didn't want to lose that yes yes you know two two things that I'm picking up from what you're saying and I know this also through experience having had loved ones in hospital settings is that I think language is

everything I think that is profound how you you basically convince them to you empowering language instead of defeating language. And I understand they're quoting on statistics and, you know, they're trying to set expectation. But what is the expectation is is that we're going to fight again tomorrow. Right. So let's use that language. I think the second thing that you did is you became an advocate for Azalea. I've noticed many times this notion of, well, defeat on the part of of, of staff.

So it's like it's inevitable this person is going to pass away or this person is going to leave and in those moments where we've had loved ones in those those moments I distinctly remember saying no, that's not going to happen. It's not going to happen on our watch and we can't put ourselves in that position. So what is everything that we can control? Let's control it and let's do the thing. Yeah. Right. And it feels like that's exactly what you did. Use the empowering language and everything that you can control you did. right so what becomes then the objective once they have once you feel like they've given up yeah the objective then was getting azalea treatment in singapore basically there was azalea had this marker on her cancer cells which was called cd 33 and cd 34 we don't have that target in the UK for like stem cells very complex but we don't have it here and they had it in singapore of where he could target that specific um sal oh my goodness So now where everybody's introducing,

and Zaley's not even got a passport. We need to get to see the ball. She is a few months. Yeah, yeah. We needed a passport. We needed to send the blood over. We needed everything to happen. But once that surgeon said, yes, he can do that.

He can treat that. That was it. It was within a heartbeat. Then we needed to raise a significant amount of money. So we put a go-furt. And Azale had raised over a million pound in three hours. Three hours. Three hours.

That's how much everybody would behind our. And that allowed us then to have that financial burden off our shoulders to go and concentrate on the things that we needed to, getting ready to go to Singapore. Then we got told after more tests because they keep testing and I think putting it the blood in the incubator or something to keep growing. And then we got told that it was going to relapse too much, that the treatment that he had over there, it spiraled too quickly because that's how fast cancer can just spike. So then we got a sent home then on end of life. They came in and gave us the news that Singapore can't treat her either.

So you're in the hospital until you can't go to Singapore. You have been fighting, Ash has been fighting, you have not allowed any defeat. had you given up hope at that moment? At that moment Azale was asleep which is crazy because I never wanted her to feel any energy from myself

or be around crying. I never cried in front of her. I remember just dropping straight to the floor with my hands in my head looked up at Ashley and it was like you know when you just I can just see him now

I just look straight at him and it was like don't even look at me one of them moments where you're like you can't even look at each other to be like we've been defeated it's not real

don't look at me this is not real and then it was like we went and had more conversations elsewhere and then it was like like

we need to go and enjoy the last moments that we can as a family with her. And for her waking up out of that conversation to me then looking at her, I felt like I've let her down, like as a mother, as a mother, you meant to protect you, try it. And I remember looking at her thinking, I am as I were looking at her

I couldn't even imagine her not even being here and it was the most heartbreaking thing to look your child in the eye and know that any moment which is what they told us

she could go any moment any moment it could just spiral and it could go she could go and that for me was and it is still now the hardest pill to swallow yeah you know

also just to mention there's some tissues right there's right yeah I um you blamed yourself though yeah I just felt like I made her because I made her it's like I'm responsible

I thought and then like immediately these intrusive thoughts come in my head of like, this is why you shouldn't have been a mum. This is why you knew you shouldn't have had children. This is why you knew that it wasn't just about finding the right dad. It was because this could happen. So all these things started shooting through my head

and made me feel horrible and responsible that I've done this to my daughter. Oh, and this connects back to what you had mentioned when you said, I delivered her safe. Yeah, yeah, exactly that. And then knowing that it's, you're now looking at your daughter's eyes while she's smiling and playing with her teddy, knowing that is this going to be the last time she plays with her little lion? Is this going to be the last time we're going to take a video where she's smiling? Right. And everything suddenly shifted in, is this the last time?

Is this the last time? And they sent me and Ashley home. And in their moments of us being at home, we'd be protecting Azalea from all the family from being in contact with her because she'd been... Oh, because of the medication. Because of the medication and her having to be in isolation to the point where now the family were allowed to come and touch and hold her

from not touching her from eight weeks to eight months. It was like the hardest thing ever because I knew the fight had finished once I'd watched my family holding her and I should be happy that they're holding her. And then I had family members that were crying while they were holding her and I remember coming to take Azalea off them

because she hadn't seen crying and she hadn't seen mommy cry, she hadn't seen daddy cried, she'd only seen a smiley face. Oh, wow. So even at them points, I would take Azalia away from any sort of energy

that would make her feel sad. Wow, it's incredible. So she didn't see anyone cry? No, no, never. No, she'd, when I wanted to cry the most, beside her, I would laugh and sing if you're happy and you know it, clap your hands. And I'd sing it with that much passion and energy

because I wanted to scream and cry that ended up becoming her favourite song. Or sing, Ubi-Doo, I want to be like you. So when she heard that, she would smile. Yeah, but that was me screaming and crying. Yeah, internally. Yeah. Yeah.

So Azalea then passes away. Do you recall the moment? Yeah. Myself and Ashley, I had a monitor and end-of-life team always say don't have a monitor because you end up seeing the heartbeat go down or you're relying too much on the numbers rather than having that quality time. Yes. So I understand exactly why they do it.

But for me, every second mattered. So I'd always do as early as checks. In the hospital, that's what they'd do anyway. Every four hours they'd come in and do a check on, like, her pulse and do all of her checks on how her heartbeat is and just all the general things that when I got home, I requested this machine because I wanted to do my observations at home. I was just used to that now at this point.

And I noticed. it was going down I couldn't get a pulse and it was I was attaching it to a tyre and her fingers and everywhere that I could try and get a pulse from

and the night before Azalea passed I sang I used to sing Whitney Houston when you believe because I knew she were going to heaven and I didn't want her to stop it

I didn't want her to stop believing even though that she was going to heaven she's going to be the most beautiful angel and we're still going to be together and then it was crazy because we had night after night after night where she was still here with us but on that particular night when I sang that song

the next morning we woke up she was still here with us but then it was early morning that was it she passed away and mine and Ashley's and then even at that point when she'd passed away Ashley had gone into

a shock like really bad he had I don't even know if we spoke about this so I don't really want to speak about it too much but he'd gone into a really bad shock and obviously his alia was between us and I picked his alia up and remember sitting on the top of the step

with her as she'd passed away in my arms and looking at her face it was peace had just echoed through the whole of her body she wasn't in pain anymore and she looked the most peaceful that she'd looked in such a long time and at that point

I felt like you're gone to heaven but I felt like her presence was still there with me I felt like she was still with me it's very good like in Islam as well to make sure that the body's clean

so I made sure that that was all done me and Ashley both did that together and then we got her changed and dressed and yeah and then yeah that's the I tell you

I mean, you know, it's so hard to hear this, but I can't fathom what it's like to live it. You know, and the strength that you have to have to be able to go through that. Yeah. You know, I know that you are at a state in life where you reflect quite a bit and you pull lessons. What was Azalea's lesson to you? Wow. Her lesson to me is to live without fear. It's also, it's a very good question, Paul.

But I live without fear anymore. Her lesson to me is to shine that light that she so fearlessly gave to this world and continue her legacy and to help these children and families. that's the biggest lesson she's given me to help of us and be the voice for the voiceless. Have you now gone back and reconsidered how you felt in that moment when you were told that she would have to return for end-of-life care and you thought you were a bad mother? Do you realize that?

No, not yet. Not yet. Can we talk about that? Because from my observation, you were the perfect mother. Perfect. The perfect. But when trauma comes, when the storm comes into our lives, we typically do one of three things. We either retreat from the storm, can't handle it.

And that's okay. We shouldn't feel shame for not being able to handle the storm. That's one. The second thing is that we just, just freeze. You say, you know what, I can be here. I can come to the hospital, but I won't be able to function when I'm here, right? But then the third thing that could happen, and it happens to a rare percentage of us, but this is what you did, and that is, you know what, I'm going to step through the storm, and I'm going to step up to the challenge that's being presented to me. And that to me is

the testament of an exceptional parent. That's an exceptional person is to say, because you know what that is, that's resilience. That's saying that I'm going to step up to this and I'm going to meet it. No matter what you throw at me, I'm going to meet you and I'm going to see you one. And that's what you did every step of the way. I want you to be able to reflect back and be proud of what you did, not just for Azalea, but for all the other mothers and fathers. they can see and they can learn strength through you. They really can. They really can.

I mean, do you see how you stepped up? Do you see that? Yeah, that part I feel just firstly, thank you so much for that. It's really refreshing to hear out because I think that I spend a lot of time in my own mind. And as much as I have an incredible following and an audience and great people around me that always, reassure me and tell me that sometimes you can't get away from your own head and your own thoughts and

that your own demons that just sit there and so yeah thank you for that but you do see how you stepped up yeah I do I do I tell you the reason why I do is because it's gave the people's strength and that's where I see that I have stepped up

because of the people's telling me through me being an inspiration to them and it's how them get back on their feet I knew that I must have done something right yes you did yeah you did you did and every time I see I'll remind you that yeah I'll remind you that you know

now you just mentioned how your experience and how you lived this experience is helping others but you went through a grieving period and I would argue that that grieving period doesn't end it just reshapes. Absolutely.

But initially, how are you able to live through the grief? What help and support did you get? Yeah. My only thing that I wanted to do was help children and families fighting against child of cancer. I knew my purpose through my daughter of what I wanted to do. And we're going to start a charity. We're going to name it the Azalea Foundation. And I'm going to parent my daughter through a foundation and help of a children and families.

fighting against child of cancer. And that's the only thing that had kept me here through the immediate stages of my grief. After that was established, and as that was going on, I felt worthless and like I didn't want to be here anymore. I started gaining weight and not recognizing myself in the mirror. I don't know who I am.

I don't want to live here anymore. I don't want to be here. Ashley can take care of the foundation. I am now having the most intrusive thoughts. Do I go and drive my car into a wall? Do I go and jump off somewhere? Like, how can I commit suicide in a way where it can be quick and be done? And then my following started telling me,

me how much I were helping them. I looked at my brother and he's literally been my bad boy my brother. He's been amazing. Tell me about him. He is any moment through the whole of my journey this guy has been at the drop of a hat for me and he was somebody that I looked at and thought I need to stay here for you as well because you're in pain. I can't do this to you of how I feel. I looked at him one day when we was just chatting and I thought

I could never do that to you as my brother and leave you in that pain. So it is your brother in the love that you have for him that prevented you from taking your own life. Yeah. I was in a really, really dark place and I just

couldn't. I just thought I've got my family have gone through so much. I have a surprise for you. Oh. It's not Ashley, is it? No. Um, this is your lifesaver. My lifesaver? Yeah. Take a look at this. What?

Hey, good morning. Just want to leave a short message to my sister Sophia to say how proud are. How great she is as a sister and how proud I'm as a brother to have her in my life. It really is a blessing. And just seeing the journey that you've been through, not being able to get out of bed in the morning. Now standing on stage in front of thousands of people, delivering messages, inspiring others. It really is touching. Loving that you're sharing as Aene's legacy. It really is great work.

Love you lots, Ce Su. No way. What do you think about this? No way. What do you think about that? He hates the camera and Paul. Oh my God. Oh, wow.

What do you think about that? Wow. You know what? To hear him speak those words means everything to me. I think that love is just, I mean, it's so powerful. It's what kept you a lot. live. Yeah. Yeah, he did. You know? So the Azalea Foundation. Yeah.

Islea Foundation is a foundation that you and Ashley created and you co-run the foundation. Now, what I find interesting is that you and Ashley are no longer together. No. But yet you co-run this organization together, right? So it shows you that you were always friends. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But you two did break up. How did that happen? Because, you know, through this entire story, at least from the moment you met him, through to having Azalea, all the challenges you had with Azalea, you two were close. You were a team. Yeah.

So what do you believe happened? And how did the relationship eventually end? We navigated grief very differently. I'm kind of a, let's go and ride through this together, kind of person. and I think for him, it was he's in his own zone now. He's probably got his own protective armour on around him and the feelings and the thoughts and the pain that he's in. I believe that he just couldn't navigate with me.

And that's even still till this day, really gets me because I kind of felt like I waited for you. to navigate through the pain, but also showing you that I was an incredible partner to still be by your side for everything. He ended up drinking quite a lot. And going down that road, and when I'm somebody that don't really drink a lot,

you know, it was difficult. It was very, very hard and needed him. And for him, I think he needed to be by himself. and through a lot of therapy now I understand that there's no right and no wrong to grief and that's why I still respect him so much as an individual and as Azalea's dad because maybe God put us together for this reason of making a change and a difference in this world that we live in and now it's his time to go off and for me to go and find my next step in knife. Your next step, yeah, yeah. That's a very respectful, you know, way to...

I would still be with him now, Paul. I would. Yeah, I feel that. Yeah, I would. I still love Ashley to pieces and through his own journey of what he's decided to go on, the path that he's decided to go on, I've just had to sit on the side and absorb everything that's come my way and publicly as well. With the layers of strength that I thought I had, I then had to put on a whole new load of armour. I was bullied and tormented online for my appearance. I'd gained weight, so I'd always been small, probably how you see me now, but probably a bit smaller. I was always petite and through my grief

I've even looked back on pictures the other day it was three months after Azale had passed of where I just skyrocketed and gained so much weight and that I had online bullies, a minority but when you're feeling like you want to commit suicide and you've got a minority, sometimes that can finish it. And they bullied me and told me that

Ashley had left me because I'd gained weight look at yourself in the mirror, your estate, go and fix yourself, like, who do you think you are? Like, it was horrific. So not only were you getting that online hate, but you didn't even address it? I anchored for the day, like today, where I feel like my foundation and the children's voices heard and still being heard, and then I can talk about me. I come second, Drew. Yes, yes.

Yeah. So this was three months in. You said people were already bullying you, three months in to Azalea passing. You think, what sicko are you? Yeah. To, I mean, to A, do it anyway. Yeah. But to B, do that to a mother who is lost her child.

Were these inbox messages as well? Yeah. They were coming through my inbox. They weren't anywhere publicly, you see. It was all in my DM. It was all in the DM. It was worse. And I was going through my request so religiously

because I wanted to help more children and families. So I was going through each case. It was like I was going through a case to keep my brain working. And that's why I'd come across them all and I'd see them all. And you would read them. And I'd read them. And then I'd look in the mirror and I'd think, yeah, what's happened to me? No wonder who don't want to be with me.

And over the years, I've noticed now by my platform growing that I am making a change in people's lives. These people are relying on me to show them more of me. They want to see more. They want to see what it looks like to be a broken woman and to come back into this world again with your head held high. Yes, yes. You know, to be able to see someone go from, as you mentioned, broken.

Yeah. Right. Although I'd never like to say broken. You were just in the storm. Yeah. You know, you're in the storm. You see someone in the storm come out of the storm. Head held high, right?

That's confidence. How did you develop that confidence? The consistency and the boundaries and every day showing up. And I think what's rebuilt my confidence is truly showing up, not sitting in the background to everything and just making sure that I'm disciplined. You know, it's interesting. I had a conversation with Mel. Robbins.

Yeah. And she has different theories, very, very popular theories. Kind of the first one, I think, that really boosted her into international stardom was this whole 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, where she would look at, she would recollect, like, a rocket taking off and the countdown, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and then the rocket has to take off no matter what. Yeah. So she would lay in bed and she was in a depressed state and would count.

Okay, I have to get up. Five, four, three, two, one. I'm up, right? I also do this. That's crazy. You do that? I do three, two, one. Of course, you do.

Three, two, one. And then you just launch into it. And it's a way to tell yourself, all right, we're going. Mm-hmm. You know, and your blind's opening, the shower, right? That makes sense. Yeah, routine. Therapy, I also know, was a part of, I'll call it, your evolution.

Yeah. So can you talk about therapy? Because for a lot of people, people, I think that there's still this mixed feeling of. Do I need therapy, especially as an individual? Can I afford it? How frequently do I need to go? So what was your experience with therapy? I think everybody could do with therapy.

So when I went into therapy, the first conversation I had with a therapist, it was face-to-face. Didn't quite get on with it. Left, I thought, nah, I knew that this weren't for me. Okay. I thought, come on, like, let's just not like disregard the therapy. Let's try and find somebody else. Found somebody else. No, didn't quite take to that person.

My third therapist, and it was on Zoom, and I always thought that I needed face to face because I need to feel the in-person, like, energy. Yes. Boom, straight away. She got me. Look at that. And I was locked in, and I thought,

I'm very interested because you're starting at my childhood, but I'm traumatized over here. Why are you starting from down here for? Like, I'm all right with all of that. As we unpicked the whole way through, I was having three therapy sessions a week. Yeah, it was, it's not cheap, right? But what would I do? Go out there and buy, go and get a holiday or go and, I'm paying for my car insurance. I'm paying for all these other things.

Why am I not paying for my mental health that's going to keep me here? I need to invest in myself. So I started having the three sessions thinking, okay, this is going to keep me alive. And as I was going through these therapy sessions, she were then giving me tasks to do. At one point, Paul, I couldn't even get out of the car to go into a supermarket

because I was tormented by the baby oils and the children in the supermarket. I'd sit in my car and drive away. Ashley's mom would go and pick up the milk and the bits and bobs that we needed to make food because I was terrified, it would make me cry, seeing baby milk or nap is. Right. Always a big trigger.

So we walk through the steps of all of these things and have different measures. Instead of sitting in the car this time, let's see when you start feeling like this, walk to the door. If you can't get to the door, go back to the car, but at least you've got to walk to the door. Yes. That's how I started my journey, just even going into a supermarket. Look at that. Look at that. And it was the therapist.

Yeah. Was able to give you those tools. Yeah. You know, what's so important about what you just said is that you tried one therapist, didn't work, tried another, it didn't work, tried again, it worked. I think that there is a myth that exists, and that is that I'm going to sit down in front of this therapist the first time. They're going to solve every pain in my life, and that's it.

But when you look at the data, it shows us that most people, when they go to see their therapist, they don't like their therapist, right? And it's important to say, you know what, I don't like the, therapist. It's not that I don't like therapy. Yeah. And then just pivot. Because you're right. We all, you know, it's just like a partner, a romantic partner. It's right. You know, you have to go through some, you have to kiss some frogs to get to the prince. It's the same way with, you know, with therapy. So I love that. I love that.

There's one more topic I want to talk about before I get into the rebirth, the glow up. I'm called the glow up. And that is happiness. Because there's so many parts of this conversation I had with Ashley that stand out to me. But one in particular was one that I think we debated a bit on. And that was when I asked him if he was happy. I don't know of anyone as ambitious as Ashley Kane. Hi, I am. There you.

There you go. That was good. You've only just met me. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I already can see now. I get it. I get it.

Coming for you. I see it. No, no, but I see it. I see it. And now I can see why you two were together. I could really see it, you know, well matched, well match. But I see how ambitious he is, right? And he's in the pursuit of these goals. When I said, are you happy? He said, no. And then I asked, do you foresee yourself ever being happy? He said, I don't. Saf, are you happy? I'm not happy yet. However, this year, this year,

Yeah, January, promise myself, I'm going to go on a journey of finding happiness. But you foresee happiness. Yeah, absolutely. So how much of this happiness is about romantic? New romantic relationships. And here's where I want to go with this. There's a viral video that was recently posted. Yeah.

Okay. Which I saw, I was like, this is very impressive. Matter of fact, I was very, I was very, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I, liked it. A lot of work coming to that. So for a very long time, I've not entertained men or gone on dates or done anything because I am unhealed. I want to become to a point where I'm healed to a point where I can bring happiness to your

life and share great memories and times together, not for you to unpack all my traumas. That's for me to do for myself and my therapist. Then I started looking out there. I go to some great events and I'm like, Like, he's fit, he's fit, he's fit, he's put. Someone will be like, oh my God, she's so good. But there was a massive stigma around me being in a relationship with Ashley. And although he's moved on and now got two children,

there was always my own identity that is always in the shadow of being Ashley Kane's ex-girlfriend. Yeah. So I needed a mentor. I needed you, boy. I needed somebody to help me navigate how to go back into this. field again, it was so scary. I'm like, do I do dating apps? Yes. I'm terrified of dating apps. And because my face is known, I'm thinking, you see me on a dating app, you're going to think, is this real, or am I going to be vulnerable being put on a dating app? Or, okay, I can go and date somebody,

but then am I too vulnerable? I don't know how to do this field in this generation no more. Especially in the UK. You know, romance fraud is one of the fastest growing frauds in the UK. And a lot of these groups, because there's groups that are specifically looking for women who've gone through traumatic events like the loss of a child, right, or the loss of a partner. And the idea is that they can figure out how, they believe you're in a vulnerable state and they can more easily manipulate you. So your reluctance to jump right into it was right. So then how do you then end up doing this video in Dubai? Okay, so this is insane, Paul, because I promise you now,

I didn't think that it was going to blow off as crazy as when it did. I was left thinking, like, but where it came from and what happened was this guy, he's so lovely, he's such a gentleman, and he's high profile and he wanted to hang out. So then, okay, we were hanging out the next minute I'm on a yacht having dinner. And my friend was like, come on, like, you're on holiday. Like, just go and enjoy it.

Like, there's nobody around. Just, like, you don't have to feel any kind of way. And then he kissed me. And, yeah, I was just like, oh, my God. I was like, I felt like Bridget Jones. I was so geeking. And I log inside, I was like, what the hell? And then we was just hanging out one evening.

And it was like, not a date, but like, we're chilling together. I like informal stuff I'd know. This is one evening. So you've been hanging out multiple evenings with this guy. Oh, she bad. And I noticed you said multiple evenings. Yeah. And I like things informal as well.

So I don't like to just directly, you know, be like, oh, let's go on a date because that would scare me. So I'm like, let's hang out. Let's just chill. So I was like, right, have you got one of those full Emirati outfits? Yeah. I said, well, I've got the scarf and I've got my shades and my hat. I said, how about if I disguise.

you would you do the video with me then? And he was like, no, because you can, you'll probably see, there'll be some kind of movement in it where you might see a tattoo or you might see something. Right. So we fully disguised the whole outfit and we thought, let's just give it a try to see if it works. But, but he was reluctant.

Yeah. But yet he approved of the video going out. Yeah, because he had, the edits would set up to. or I think half five in the morning. Yeah, we made sure that you couldn't even see anything. Do you think that is one of the reasons why, because you can't identify who he is? Do you think that's one of the reasons why so many people

have watched, shared, commented on this? Yeah, I think there's that for identifying who he actually is. But, you know, my following and my audience, they are incredible women and they want to see me happy and it's amazing to see who their pairing we're with as well like it's actually jokes

I mean it wasn't a hard launch of a relationship however it is a hard launch that I am back out dating and that was like me breaking the eyes to say I am ready to go back out I don't know what the hell I'm doing I need all the guidance but I'm here but I am here like I just want to break that chain of it

and that's what I felt like that video has now done for me. It's just allowed me to be like, if I want to do get ready with me for a date night, I can do that. Yes. And not feel guilty of feeling like I can move on.

Yeah. He is a gentleman. He has been really delicate with me. He's emotionally intelligent. He is very emotionally aware of what I've gone through as well. So he's treating me with delicacy. And I really, really like that. And I think I need to date more so I know what I really want.

Yeah, I agree. And I don't think it's wise of me just jumping straight in the deep end. I feel like I need to go out and see what this world is. I mean, I might end up going back to him and revealing him in the future. I'm not going to press you on who it is. Okay. But can I get from you a category, right? So here's the category.

There's sports is one category. Yeah. There is, I call it the professional category. Yeah. There's the music category. And then there's another category. What category is he in? Because I like you.

It's sports. It's sports. Okay. Then I, you know what? I'm going to stop right there. Yeah. I'm not going to go anywhere deeper. But can I say?

what I love is what you just said, and that is, I'm going to go out here and date. And I believe that's exactly what you should be doing. When I look back at your life, you've only been in one healthy relationship. So if you've only been in one healthy relationship, then what you need to do is you need to explore more healthy relationships and see which one fits the best for you. How would you know, though, when you go on a date with somebody? That's what scares me going on a date with somebody and then it almost feels like an interview. So I think the first date,

what's most important in a first date or first interaction, is two things. One, did the person listen to you? And did you feel the need and desire to want to listen to them? That's so important is because if you don't have that right from the beginning, you won't be able to develop an emotional connection. The second is their physical attraction. and I will debate anybody on this.

I think there needs to be at least a minimal level of physical attraction, mutual. So if you have mutual physical attraction, at least minimal, right? And you have mutual listening. That is chemistry. The other piece that I think you should own as you're dating, because you are coming from a vulnerable state, is the importance of you setting boundaries and watching. to see if someone tries to push you, cross you on the boundaries. Because what manipulators do is they try to push, not they try, they do.

They push you just ever so slightly out your boundary. And then once they're able to successfully do that, they push you further out the boundary, further out the boundary, further, and then they're bullying you. If they're respecting your boundaries right from the beginning, they actively listen to you, you're physically attracted to them. That's someone that you want to continue to see. So I think these are the three elements that are very important early on. And I want you to truly own each of those early on.

Would you ever go on slubs go dating? I would absolutely. If you're on that, would you be on it? I need you, Paul. I absolutely would love nothing more than to do a show like that. I feel like I'm at this point where I need that help and that support. and I'm because I'm so ready for it now I feel like a little kid that needs you

I need a helping hand well you got we're cool we're friends now like so you've got you got you got that's you definitely have me yeah I would yeah I would absolutely love to I have watched that show and the job that you do and that time that you dedicate would be great for you to navigate me

in terms of what I'm doing wrong or what I do. I like constructive criticism for myself. I enjoy that. And I feel like with that constructive criticism would help me start my journey. All right, fair. That's fair. That's fair.

Another quick subject is the future. So if you just think about what your goals are professionally because you are, I think one thing that as I read about you and I'm very proud of is that you are a businesswoman, you're an entrepreneur. So when you think about the next chapter of your career professionally, what does that look like for you? For me, I want to, obviously my heartbeat is always the Azalea Foundation

and always making sure that we are making changes and statistic changes in how many children are passing a week and developing the PhD program that we're doing. So for me, in that field there with education, is making sure that we are bringing new talent and new research to this country to really make it so parents and children don't have to go abroad for treatments like I and Ashley did with Azalea. So that's always my heartbeat behind it. On the other aspect of it, I want to be that light in whatever direction I choose to go on now.

And I know there's so many things that are coming in to my manager at the minute, which is all exciting things, that I am going to start saying yes to. do because I now have that confidence to say yes. There you go. The confidence is back. Yeah, and that means that I'm just about to catapult. But my main thing is making sure that I bring light into other people's lives and make sure that you really see the true value of who you are as a person

and you don't need anybody else but yourself. There you go. I love it. So then you get the final question that everyone gets. Okay. And it's my favorite question. and that is when you think through your life and all of the challenging conversations you've had,

which one stands out as the most memorable? Who was it with and what did you talk about? And it's difficult because my most memorable ones are all for Azalea. They are... So one of my most memorable... conversations are with Ashley and that was the moment we went into hospital and we were both falling apart. We created this team called Club 100 and that was every time we went into that room to Azalea all she would see was smiley face all she would see was smiley faces and happy

mommy and daddy and we never let her down and we always carried through them wishes of each other look at that club 100 yeah i think that's a good lesson for all of us to take is club 100 you know um when i was doing the research for this one something that absolutely blew me away was that there is not one word in the english language to represent a parent who's lost a child that blew me away. If you think of a child who's lost a parent, what are they? An orphan. Yeah. You think of a, if you've lost your partner, what are you a widow or a widower? If you go to other languages like Hebrew or Arabic, there are words to describe a parent who's lost a child, but not in the English language. And so I went back and I got, I went down the rabbit trail and

looked at these scholars, these academic scholars that were debating as to why. And the top reason that they came up with is they said, the pain is so unbearable that that is one reason why we don't have a word to describe this because of the pain and how unbearable the pain is. And what I find so interesting about that is that the English language, it tells us what we're thinking, but also the things that we try not to think about. And what I applaud you for doing is bringing light to what we should be talking about. We shouldn't have a loved one pass on and not bring their name up. Forget their memory. We should talk about them. We should celebrate them. We should honor them. And this is precisely what you continue to do every day.

And because of that, you are one of the best mommies. Thank you. You are incredible. And I believe that your future is going to be next level. Because you've done the work. I can see that you've done the work. I can see the promise in your eyes, you know, of where you're going. And I'm so excited for you.

I'm so excited for what's coming next. And any time you need some insight, some advice. I'll give you my number. You just, you just hit me. I'll even talk to whoever this mystery man is in Dubai, let me talk to him first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll tell you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me talk to him. Yeah. But I'm so happy for you. Thank you. Thank you. And I appreciate it as well. And yeah, you are going to be my coach.

Done. Done and done. Thank you for having me as well. Honestly, I appreciate it. And I also appreciate you giving me this space to be able to talk and, you know, inviting me on to be able to be able. to be that voice for the voiceless

and to give everybody hope around our country or the world, whoever's listening to this because you know, you do give that safe space to your guests and honestly, I'm just honoured to be sat in this chair. Thank you so much. We're all blessed by you. Really?

We are. We are. We are. Saf. Safia. Beautiful. Elocent. inspiring for sure I think she's someone who as she mentioned has lived in the shadow of her ex you know of

Ashley Kane and perhaps living in the shadow didn't allow her to realize her true identity and she's reached a place now where she has yeah and that's beautiful Ashley mentioned this as well as Sophia mentioned this is that there were times where it was too much for him where he he would shut down. And this is where Sophia had to step up. And so we were able to get that level of detail and to know that they had the strength to ensure that Azalea rung the bell, go home, tell family, but then go right back to fighting.

And that is something that is the epitome of resilience. I think resilience, courage, strength, these are words that sometimes are used too lightly, but they perfectly apply to Sophia. I also love this new romance, man thing happening in Dubai. She's having fun. And we need to celebrate that. Not everything needs to be committed, forever, get married, spend your life. It could be a nice fling, right?

That's respect. that's fun and something tells me that's what she has. I think I know who it is by the way. So if you think sports, Dubai, the build, I think you can, I mean, it's definitely not a footballer. Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you,

and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Springs Calling. Ross, work your magic.