We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - How Minecraft Can Make You Millions: We're Talking Streaming

Episode Date: September 25, 2025

Three of the UK’s biggest online creators - TommyInnit, DanTDM, and Talia Mar join Paul to explore what it really takes to build a streaming career. They share how they grew their platforms, stayed creative under pressure, and built communities that reach millions. We’re Talking Streaming. (00:00) Intro (00:53) How Tommyinnit started his streaming career (01:40) Tommy is one of the most followed people in the world (02:50) How Tommy built his streaming following (07:30) Tommy's Guiness Records (10:35) How DanTDM became a full-time YouTuber (13:22) The grind that led to Dan's success on YouTube (17:00) 2017 Forbes Article about Dan (18:58) Love Better Tour Ad (20:03) How Talia Mar started streaming and built her following Get Your Tickets to the Love Better Tour: https://bit.ly/lovebetter-YT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water.

The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. This episode is dedicated to the weird and wonderful world of video game streaming. You may know I like to play Minecraft with my sons.

It's a great way of bonding together while being creative and getting involved in a positive online community. All three of my guests in today's episode are experts in growing these communities. Tommy Init, Dan TDM, and Talia Marr. So if you're at all interested in building a streaming following, then this is the episode for you. But before we get into it, if you like this episode or any of our content, please subscribe to our channel and hit the bell icon. It massively helps us keep bringing you nuanced conversation with big guests. Today, we're talking streaming. Where did Tommy In It come from?

We're in geography class. We had to like make a quislet name and it came to me. I was like, my name's Tom, but hang on, what if it was Tommy, that's super cool? And then what do I say, In It a lot? Tommy, that is a cool name. Now, I remember it came up on the board, and I thought everyone would have had cool usernames. And it was just like, Sean 104, Annie 106, Tommy. And I was like, I'm Tommy in it.

I remember my geography teacher was like, Tommy in it, really? And it was the first time I remember going, yeah, really. That is a cool name. Clearly, I mean, you've become one of the most followed, like literally one of the most followed people in the world. Wow. Yeah. When you put it like that, fucking hell, yeah. But can I run numbers?

I mean, you know these numbers better than... I'm trying to forget about it. YouTube, 15.1 million. As of recording, 15.1 million. That's on one channel. 5.32 million on another YouTube channel. TikTok, 11.9 million. X, 4.2 million.

And Instagram, 3.1 million. You know, one of the most followed people in the world. Yeah. So I want to learn how you got to that. And it seems like it started with this, to your point, this unfiltered, colorful, I'm just doing this. Yeah. Because this is coming from my heart. Yeah.

Well, I think, thank you very much, by the way. And I did that. And then I'm starting to see people around me over about two, three thousand stuff like blow up. It's like copying them and getting, you know, making, talking about like hacked clients, which will get you banned on the Minecraft server. So start sort of breaking the rules to try and. get, you know, I sort of diverge away from myself for a bit. And then on my favourite server, my community, I get banned for a month. I can't believe it.

And right as I get banned, me and Freddie and my parents go to Wales, when I have this sit down, I'm just, I'm really, like, annoyed, really sort of heartbroken. But I remember sitting down at this, like, lake, and it's just me and him in Wales. And I go, I really think this is serious, Fred. I really think I can do this. I think I've got what it takes. And Freddy's like, I believe in you. And I come home.

And then I go, right, it's going to make a video for me then. I can't do literally anything. I'm going to make a video I just want to make. And I make this one called like the fastest clicking method where I'm just so weird and stupid. And then I guess like more views than anything I've done. And that's when I learn a valuable lesson. Okay, cool.

Be myself because that works better than anything. What was your vision at that point? I just wanted, like, YouTube rank. I just wanted that, that little symbol that I've, like, made it. That's all I wanted. Interesting. And it was just the rank. Like that...

Yeah, it's just a little name on HiPixel. Instead of, like, it just says YouTube Tommy in it, instead of Tommy In it. I was like, that is the most important thing in the world to me. Because it felt like the first thing that was like a dream, but I could achieve it. It was almost impossible, but it wasn't. And there's a fact that I could do it. I was like, I have to do that. I have to do it.

You know, so this is not unlike in my conversation with Dan TDM or I had a conversation with Tal Yomar, right, around performance on YouTube. And there definitely seemed to be, and I think the appropriate word is obsession on the numbers. Yeah. And so would you feel like you were obsessed? I absolutely was obsessed. And it was the most amazing thing for like four years. And then it really backfired on me these last four years.

So take us through the four year rise. So yeah, okay, so I get unbanded and I start making these videos and I start performing better and better. It was at my mum's friend's wedding and we sat in this field and I hit 10,000 subscribers. It was the, I couldn't believe it. That was genuinely the last moment in my life that things felt like real. Really? Yeah.

Then I hit 20,000 like a month later. Then I hit 30,000. And I remember I woke up and I had. I had it, I had YouTube rank, it was like, wow. Oh my God, it makes me like, it makes my heart drop. It's so silly, but it probably makes my heart drop. Like, even remembering it, I couldn't believe it. And I just was like, oh, it's happened.

This is it. This is all I ever wanted. But then a couple days later, I hit 31,000 subscribers. And I'm like, hang on. I didn't plan. Hang on, no, I've done my plan. It's happened. I'm done.

What else? What's happening now? And then I like, it keeps going up. Because obviously I'm really enjoying it. I'm loving making my videos. I'm loving YouTube. You know, and then like a couple months later, I hit 100,000. And I'm like, and now I start getting some new goals, like getting a video that has a million views.

Okay. And becoming friends of like Technobled. And I'm like, whoa, these are like that extra good. This is like, I've got what I wanted, but I'll keep going. Yes. So as your social ranking also. is increasing online. What's happening at school?

At school, it's funny. I tell a couple of my mates, but we keep it a big secret, no one at school knows. And I just start, like, my confidence just goes up massively, because I'm like, I've got YouTube rank, right?

I don't care. I'm not on the football. I've literally got, I don't care you're not liking my selfies. I've got YouTube rank. And so I got a lot more, like, people that mean to me, like, I'll be arch back,

like I don't mind. And everyone gets a bit, at least I remember, everyone be a bit taken abat by me and being like, what's going on with him? Why is he so proud of himself? But like, he's just like... Why is he so happy?

Isn't it? Yeah, everyone was like quite confused. And then everyone found out. I remember like I was in sixth period science where I had none of my mates. And a mate I'd known for years went, is this you? And I was like, yeah.

And their face looked like, shocked. I remember like this girl that I'd known for years that I'd sometimes had a crush on. you're just looking at me like I was a stranger. Remember that was the first time I was like, well, I don't like that you're looking like, you don't think you know me anymore, and I've known you, and I've not changed, didn't like that.

How did you set these records? Because I didn't even realize, is it two Guinness Book World Records that you have? Yeah, I do. Okay. So Tom, tell me, tell me, tell me what those records are. It's like most viewers ever on a strange. which is like 600,000, that got broke.

And then most followed Minecraft channel ever with like five or six million on Twitch. So, yeah. Okay. All right. I mean, these are impressive things. Thanks. Yeah, they don't even feel like it happened.

I don't even know. So how do you get to that? School finds out. People are actually quite cool about it. And I start being like, oh, actually, I'm cool. And it starts getting to my head. But it doesn't, because lockdown happens. Okay.

COVID happens. We all go inside. And I guess so I could have some structure And thought I need something to do When right, COVID's happened Everyone's inside, viewers are going up I'm going to try and grind to get like a million subs That'd be really cool

I get like crazy obsessed with YouTube And I'm just on all the time All the time Like this is when it gets its least healthy I do that for a couple of months And I'm daily uploading And when you say all the time How many hours per day?

All day Finally I went this daily uploading is killing me I've been doing it for a few months. It's stressing me out. Staying up until 4 a.m. every night doing thumbnails. Just because it was something to do, really. I literally had no responsibilities. I got all my exam results for free,

and they rounded them up. I was like not even doing that good, and they made them all better than they were because COVID happened. And I thought, this is like, I mean, if there is a god, that's telling me to get on with this. So, and then finally, I went, I'm going to slow down a bit.

And sort of, again, like I did with that fastest-clicking method, upload a video that's more from my heart. I did that, and it did way better. Look at that. Look at that. Yeah. So I keep going and like I start doing really good. I hit 200,000 and then 300,000 and then I'm meeting all these YouTubers who are like my like heroes. And then I meet a dream who is another up-and-coming YouTuber who knows so much more about the sort of science of YouTube than I do. And he really starts helping me and giving me these advice calls and he really sees some of it in me.

And he really helps me. And we have these calls where he's like helping me. YouTube and teach him you about it. And why do you think he helped you? Because one is, I mean, from my, you know, Minecraft experience, dream is a big freaking deal. Yeah. Right. And what I find interesting is, is with a lot of the YouTubers, in particular the Minecraft

YouTubers, it appeared as if there was this brotherhood. No really are. Of assistance, like a fraternity, opposed to I'm not going to share with you. I've loved each of the man. Why do you think that happened? Because we're all misfits. And, you know, we don't fit in. And then we're all together fitting in.

And there's no competition there. We're all like, this is amazing. We're all helping each other. And I joined this Minecraft server with him. And I'm doing that on Twitch and neither of you start going up. I'm like, oh. And then more people start joining. And this is the dream SMP.

And this is when things really start taking off. So at what point do you realize that there is the potential, of a career behind what you're doing on YouTube. So the way you could get monetizers back in the day is you had to be signed to something called an MCN, like a multi-channel network, because you're playing a copyrighted game, so all the legal stuff behind that gets a bit hazy.

So I signed to one, and then, like a month later, I got my first paycheck, and I was like, oh, this is the same as Tesco. It's exactly the same. And I was like, how can this be? How? How can I make this same? And then at that point, I was like, oh, this can't be real. You just have to keep going as you're going.

Don't like make any drastic decisions to then give up and go all in. That would be a terrible decision. I'm very risk of us in general. So I was like, oh, just keep going on, see what happens. And then I specifically remember in that month, it grew massively. and I think the next pay was like over $1,000. Wow. And then I looked at the email and I was like,

I remember I was in the kitchen with my wife and I was like, look at this. And I was like, I can't even remember what he said. I was just looking at the number. Like it's a number of money I'd never seen before in my life. We were very strapped for cash at that time. And then at that point, I remember, I was like, oh, I'll just still keep going as normal.

Like, keep the Tesco job, keep everything as normal. and then just see what happens. I remember she was like, no, you can, you might be able to stop Tesco at least. I was like, no, I don't, I don't think it's a good idea, but she was the one that made me give it a go. She was like, this is the time, like you're coming up to the end of a uni. You're going to have to find a, like, a full-time job anyway.

Right. Give this a go. Like, this is the time to give it a go. Okay. So it was your wife that encouraged you to go full-time at- Or to attempt it. Yeah, at that time, because I was more than happy to do everything at once still, because if it was all to go away the next few months or so on the next year,

I'd still have, like, nothing would have changed, it's fine. Okay. I'm curious, did you talk to, consult with anyone else other than your wife around whether you should make a go at this, at YouTube? No. No. Because as well, I didn't tell anyone I was doing the video, it's really, because I was

embarrassed, I guess? It was a new thing, why are you talking to a screenplay and a video game and uploading it? That's weird. Interesting. So what was embarrassing? What did you feel was embarrassing about it?

Probably because I was in my performative mode and still I was like dead shy. Do you recall roughly what the viewership was? It must have been maybe like 10,000 views of video maybe. Not every video even. Like the ones that would do well were probably like at 10,000. But I was, I think I was uploading every day. But trying to at least.

YouTube wasn't huge like it is now. But in a year, like less than a year, I went to a million subscribers. And that's quick. Very. Yeah. Very. What do you believe it was about you? And I know you're a very humble guy.

So once you step outside of that, don't give me a Dan answer. Give me a Dan TDM answer on this. Is what do you believe? it was about you. And don't put it on. It was growing and all this. What was it about you that made that channel grow so fast? I mean, initially, I was, like, if you were first to cover a mod in Minecraft, you'd get the views because it's the newest video where it gets put on certain websites as the, like, the video to go and watch to see what happens in the mod, basically.

Like, if you were lucky enough, it would go on, like, mod pages. or the creator of the mod would use your videos like this is what the mod looks like. So that is, I'd say that's what I did initially was I was just quickest to get the mod videos. I was always on the forums to see what new mods were out. I'd take risks and put up mod videos on mods that had like no views basically hoping that then they would become a popular mod. And then the views would roll in from there. So at first it was quickest, but then I started introducing the story elements. So I did the characters and stuff, and that's when it exploded.

It's like to, yeah, crazy numbers. To next level. What inspire you to do the characters? And I'm smiling because this is what my boys were telling them. The characters. So what inspire you to do that? I think it's just from my love of animation. Like I loved my.

one of my dreams as a kid I had the music but my earlier dream before I was like all into music was having an animation but then Minecraft

is a little bit of a shortcut to that because all of it's there ready to go you just kind of have to act it out you don't have to learn to animate you just have to learn how to use a mod that pretends to be a camera

and then you're just like directing a movie but in the game so it's kind of like an animation and it started to evolve into like a Saturday morning cartoon kind of vibe like that those are the cartoons that I loved like that's the animations that I really wanted to make but now I can make them in a video game and use and let just learn how to do it on the fly basically and and

what's beautiful about that is is you're you're getting this immediate feedback yeah as you upload the video and then immediately people are comment yeah that is one of the best things that at the time about YouTube is you can try something if it didn't work price of don't do it again or tweak it and try it again or if it did work keep doing it we had that advantage over mainstream media like we didn't have to apply for funding we didn't have to have an idea work through the ranks try and get that idea published and if it didn't work then well you lost out like we we could do what we wanted and get instant feedback try again

tomorrow and then yeah we upload in like obscene amounts of videos like two a day every day nonstop so I'd wake up um make videos sometimes I wouldn't eat lunch just because I need to make these videos I needed to make I didn't need to be my brain I needed to make two a day

seven days a week yeah 365 days a year nonstop yeah in that year did you take a holiday did you know you didn't stop I did five five years stray a bit

of that and if I had something coming up I'd make double so like I used to do like when I was getting popular I'd do events at the weekends so if I was taking Friday Saturday Sunday off I would do I'd have to find time I'd make six extra videos to upload while I was away so that sometimes meant having them recorded but then edit them while I was at the event so do the event um edit after just to make sure the it's kept going so by the time so five years was 2017, how many subscribers are you at then?

Because I think that's when Forbes, is that one Forbes? Around that time, I think, yeah, after, I can't remember when, like, it was? My memories were full, but. 2017? It was. 26 years? Forbes says that you were the highest paid YouTuber that year.

Yeah. Forbes said. Yeah. Forbes said. Yeah, Forbes said. And Forbes said, and, you know, these numbers are off, but Forbes said you made $16 million that year. That's what they said.

Yeah, right. So we know, give or take. Sure, yeah. Yeah, this is a guess. Like, they do reach out, but we didn't give them any info. They just worked off of what they thought or knew about the space, basically. Okay. But give or take.

I mean, that's quite a difference from a few hundred pounds from Tesco just five years earlier. Let me ask you something. When was the last time you really thought about how you love? Not who, but how? Most of us don't. We're moving fast, doing life, hoping love just shows up and sticks. But that's not how real connection works. So I've created something different. It's called Love Better and I'm taking it on tour. A live experience for anyone who wants to build deeper, more meaningful connection. We'll unpack the lessons from the couples you've seen me, coach. I'll share stories I've never told on camera and you'll walk away with tools you could use right away. This isn't a show you just sit back and watch. It's a night of honesty, insight, music, and connection designed to make you walk away with something real. Come solo, bring a partner, bring your crew, everyone's welcome. But seats are limited and they will go. Tickets are on sale right now at livenation.co.uk. I can't.

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How did you believe you were going to take this passion for music and create a career out of it? So my first thought was the internet and YouTube. And I didn't know how necessarily at that point, because I'd started a channel when I was at my previous school and got shock horror, picked on for it, deleted all my videos because it was just too mortified. And at that point, I just couldn't hack it. I couldn't hack the voices. But then when I went to Brit, I was like, actually, maybe I can start this up again. And, you know, maybe I've got the confidence here because everyone here, no one here is going to laugh at me. You want to do the same thing.

Right. So the internet was my first thought. I was like, that's, that's going to be the way that I want to do it because I know I want control. I know what kind of music I like. I know what kind of music I want to do. And if I pursue anything label or that route, I know that I don't have enough of a presence to control anything right now. Okay.

So I started uploading to YouTube. This is interesting. So your thought was I'm going to upload to YouTube and create a presence. Yeah. So in other words, do I read presence by saying you wanted to create a brand? Yeah. To give you power. Yeah.

And I... Okay. Posted non-music content. And then I had a tweet, a viral, when I was 18, I think, 19. Okay. That was a makeup tweet. And I thought, this is my inn. I'm going to post makeup tutorials on YouTube.

I've got a little bit of traction. I'm just going to run with it. Right, with makeup. Yeah. So your thought was, I'm going to build an audience. I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I'm going to build an audience. And was the idea, I'm going to build an audience so that I can. can then do music at a certain point? Or was it, I'm just going to build an audience? It was with

music. So I was technically releasing music the whole time. Okay. So my channel was called Talimar Music, uploading my makeup tutorials. Okay. And I released my first single at the same time as this tweet kind of going off and like everything's starting to have a bit of traction. I think this was 2016 and yeah I thought okay this is this is the path I was like I don't know how but this is the way I'm going to do it and we'll just figure it out all right so how methodical were you when you realized that makeup tutorials were getting traction very very thought out like whatever was trending I was doing Kylie Jenner looks I was doing whatever whoever at the time was big on makeup that was the look I'd do. And because I was a makeup artist by trade, that was my job as well.

So as soon as my interest outside of makeup size change as well, I then started introducing that into my channel, which is where gaming then started coming in and like more blobs like content started coming in because I thought people need to get to know me outside of just a tutorial now. I need to see personality based. And like, it was so thought out. Like it makes me sound a little bit crazy. But like I was really like focused on like, okay, this is the way that I'm going to get my music hard. This is this is what I'm going to do. Yeah. You know, I can't say it sounds crazy. It sounds strategic. Very strategic. You know, we had Dan TDM and what I will never forget was how strategic he was. Yeah. About I'm going to post at this time, every day, and this is the

content and he was relentless with it, right? So it sounds like it was the same for you. Yeah. How did you know that you were headed in the right direction, though, on YouTube? To be honest, I didn't. I love analytics. I'm a big fan of, like, statistics and all the back end of YouTube and all of that. So any time a video did well, I'd look, you know, where was the spike in retention? Where did the retention drop off? How long does this video been watched for?

Okay, then that's how long my video should be. And, you know, videos with this in the title do better or this videos with this in the title don't do as well. else maybe I don't phrase it like that. And so I just kind of hope for the best and thought, this is working for now. We'll just go with this. And every now and again, you try something new. If it works, brilliant. Carry on.

Okay. And that's how you rolled in games as well. Literally, you were just, I would assume, that's something that you did on your own. Yeah. At the time, I had a real issue with feeling nonproductive if I wasn't putting time into what I thought could be a career. So when I was playing games, I felt awful about it. felt every time I'd finish playing, I'd be like, oh my God, I've wasted my day, I've wasted my

life, and I don't have that opinion anymore. But at that time, it's why I started my gaming channel, because I thought, well, if I start a gaming channel, then I'm working towards something. And, like, I still get to pursue a hobby, but, like, it could potentially turn into something that is, you know, monetizable, could become a career, can help with music. And then that ended up shifting and being the thing that kind of worked the most. Okay. Interesting. When was your first monetization from YouTube? Oh, well, I started my channel in 2016, and I was, I think my first ever paycheck was like 70 pounds or something, and I was so excited. I was like, I'm rich. This is the best day ever.

And it was maybe, do you know what, not that long after that. It was a few months in, and I was like, okay, I'm starting to, there's a bit, I mean, it wasn't money that you could live Sure. But at 19, I've got a job. I live at home. 70 quid. Brilliant. Yeah. So when you got that check, are you thinking, all right, I'm now doubling down on this. This is the path. Yeah, it also was my parents. My mum said to me, she was like, you absolutely can do that, but you have to try your absolute hardest. Like, you have to put everything, every five. I will be able being into this if you want to do that. And I'll support you.

You don't have to pay rent. You know, you can live here the way that you do now. You don't have to stay in your job. And so that's what I did. How supportive. Oh, honestly, I'm very, very grateful that I've got parents that think like that. I mean, think of, all right, we have to stop for a second. I mean, clearly you've done well.

But think about, so this is 2016, 2016, 2017. Yeah. So at this point, who is the YouTube model? Like who is doing very well that you could bring to your parents and say, look at this person, I could do this? Probably Zoella. Okay. She was kind of like, that was kind of that era of who I would watch.

Yeah. I mean, you know, I think everybody has like these inflection points in life where you could see it was this moment that changed your life. Yeah. That moment clearly changed your life. Yeah. Because with their support, you then quit your job

full-time job and then what did you do? I then I just started uploading more and I then was like I'm going to do my EP I produced it all myself in my little room in our house and all I did was out

I didn't eat, I didn't sleep I didn't speak I just sat there and I learned how to do it and I produced the whole thing which now listening back you can very much tell but it was It was having that extra time, like not working on the weekends and not having school.

And like, the suddenly I was like, I've got all this three times now. I actually put everything into this career and this thing I want to do. Let's just go. Let's just do it. It's clear that something all three of my guests have in common is their passion for creating unique content and an obsession for growing their channels. If you'd like to listen to more inspiring life stories, search for We Need to Talk on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. See you next week. Discounts does USAA auto insurance offer? Too many to say here.

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