We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - "I Didn't Think I'd Ever Be Ready to Love Again" ...We're Talking Love After Loss

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

In this deeply emotional episode, Paul reconnects with Heather, who first appeared on the show grappling with the overwhelming grief of losing her partner. One year later, Heather shares her powerful journey of healing, growth, and self-discovery. From confronting feelings of numbness to exploring the complexities of dating again, Heather opens up about the challenges and triumphs of moving forward after loss. With raw honesty and vulnerability, she reflects on how far she's come and the lessons learned along the way. Tune in for a heart-wrenching yet hopeful conversation about grief, resilience, and the strength it takes to embrace life again. We're Talking Love After Loss (00:00) Intro (00:49) Heather Explains How Grief Has Fundamentally Changed Her Love Life (06:50) Paul And Heather Play A Quiz To Find Out Whether She's Ready To Date (18:50) Paul And Heather Catch Up A Year Later (26:42) Paul's Closing Thoughts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And we were overwhelmed with thousands of messages. One of the people we invited in was Heather. Now, when I first sat down with her, she was in the very early stages of grief after losing her partner, Dave, so suddenly. She was trying to stay strong for her son, Leo, feeling numb, guilty about everything she was going through, including dating again, and unsure of who she was outside of being a mother. We're going to hear part of that conversation now, and then afterwards we'll catch up with Heather one year on to see how she's been, what's changed and what she's learned. Why are you here? My partner passed away unexpectedly.

I feel like mainly guilt about how do I move on with my life. I feel quite empty, quite detached from feelings. You're not experiencing any joy. Not really. My son, I adore my son. He's my life and world. But personally, no, not really. Can we go back to right before Dave?

Yeah. So when you think about your relationship history, yeah. Were they long relationships, short-term relationships? I haven't had any over three years since I have my son. He's been my main focus. My son doesn't see his dad. So to let somebody into our space is a real.

big thing to me. To let somebody meet your child is a huge thing to me. That's massive. Yeah, yeah. So I, Leo, is and always will be my priority. Do you feel like the relationships you had prior to Dave were with men that you wouldn't put in the good guy category? Yeah. Okay, so that was the common theme.

Why do you believe that was a trend? Because I hadn't ever really got any attention when I stopped to get it, good or bad. I wanted upon it, or should I say, or maybe my lack of confidence is why I, you know, sort of getting into these relationships, my lack of, at the time, maybe more. I don't think I've grown a little bit more, but the lack of kind of self-worth, how I felt about myself,

maybe not good enough. I thought with things that, when you're now, I'm now 43, that I wouldn't dream of putting up with. So was Dave, did you feel like Dave was different than... Very different. Very different than all these guys. Couldn't have been any more different. Friendly, easygoing, laid back, looked different to my stereotypical guy that I probably would have gone for before.

I found him really interesting to talk to. And I like being around people like that that can encourage me and inspire me. So we became friends initially. Which again, I've never done that before. So you were friends first? Yes. I like that. And then you felt so comfortable with Dave, you introduced Leo to Dave.

Yeah. And that was very natural. Leo really took to Dave. Do you think he was, was he almost like a father? He was a father figure. And how did you feel to see Leo finally have a father in his life? He loved it. And that's all I've ever wanted for Leo.

But you can't just get with a guy. because so he can be a father to your child, you know, that's not right either. So it's, I mean, it's, it's got to be right, hasn't it, for me? And then then you've got to see how things go with your child. Yes. You're finally in a relationship. Your son loves this, this man, Dave. You're talking about building a life together, a child, a home, right?

What happens to Dave? It was a Friday morning and I was at work. I could see his mom call him. They loved doing Sunday lunch and things together. So I thought, oh, she'll be calling to invite Leo and I have Sunday lunch. And she said, it's Dave. He's died. And I, yes, you just can't believe that when someone told you that. How did you tell your son?

Oh, it's a word. Oh, it's the worst thing I've ever had to do, my life. I was like breaking your child's hot. you never want to do that and you never want to see them hurting like that bringing yourself to say it and then that's also accepting that's actually happened

so you know you say something out loud it's real then yes yes so not only did I have to say it out loud and I had to say it yeah to my boy thank you for sharing that I know how challenging

it is to talk about someone you love passing so a big question I'm sure in your mind is are you ready to be dating now? If you've, if a relationship's ended, it's usually because, like, there's one of two things you've ended it

because you've realized you don't want to be with that person or they've ended it. So when that person has been taken away, it's a very different experience. What you have faced is severe trauma, to your point. It's another level. and severe trauma creates a more severe reaction.

Because ultimately what you're doing is, is you now, as a result of the trauma, you are now seeing and operating in the world differently. Have you, because I know that one of the topics you wanted to talk about was, am I ready to date, right? Have you already tried to start dating? Yeah. You have.

Okay. And how is that going? So many feelings of guilt. Is it too soon? What a lovely guy this is. However, those feet where are my feelings? That isn't the right person? Or is that because I'm so numb?

So the question is a powerful question. This is one that does come up quite a bit. And there is an exercise that I have put together. Oh, okay. That I would love to do with you if you're open. Of course. Are you open? Yeah, I'm open.

See this? We have a green card, you have a red card, then we have a yellow card. Okay, so I want you to hold on to these. Thank you. Okay. All right.

So this is my green light readiness quiz. So the whole idea around this quiz is to help you determine if you're ready to date. If you date too soon, what could happen? You could be across from a great guy. and you could push them away.

Or the opposite could happen. You could be across from a terrible person, but your need and desire to be with someone allows them into your life. You know, I'm going to ask you a question. And if the answer is yes, that is going to be a green card. So you show me that green card.

If the answer is on occasion or sometimes, that's a yellow card. If the answer is never, never, that's a red card. The first question is, can I think about Dave without overwhelming sadness or anger? Yeah, it's not overwhelming anymore. Okay, all right. That's fair.

That's fair. Second, do I feel like dating would be honoring Dave rather than betraying Dave. Okay, let's talk about that for a second. So you feel like it would be... Like cheating. Because none of us ended it. That's a good analysis.

Okay, let's keep going. Number three. Do I have a sense of who I am as an individual outside of being a parent to Leo and a grieving partner to Dave. Okay. And give me your, because you were right on that. Probably since I had Leo, I've probably lost myself.

And I don't think I've ever got that back. Next question. Am I open to forming a meaningful emotional bond with someone new or does the idea still feel numb or forced? That's what I would have answered for you as well

yeah and why do you say that? So the first part of your question I am open to it absolutely and I want to however the numbness is very real. Yes yes okay you do so Heather I'm so glad that we did this

yeah that was really yeah because without question without question. The results of this are clear. You're not ready. No. I want to unpack these questions a bit. The best gift I can give you is to give you some actions.

Because one thing I can already tell is that you don't need anyone. We want someone, but you don't need anyone. And the only way you get to that is by being someone who, has worked hard, you know, in their life. And so I believe that when I give you these actions, you're going to be able to go out and do this. But before we even do that, let me ask you, how does it feel for me to tell you that I don't think you're ready?

Oh, a little bit hard. They always want to hear it, do you? Right. Even though it's, you're right. Yeah, I totally agree. Right. And I think that's the beauty of this particular exercise is because I'm going to outline

what you can do because what so many of us do is feel like okay I have to do something so let me just go start dating but dating it turns out might not be the best use of your time and energy for you because you were honest with those answers which is the first step now we can actually get the work done okay so the emotional stability you can't have a green green all right so we're good there The second question, when I said, do you feel like dating is honoring or portraying him? This is around guilt. A couple things you could do. One is, I always say, write a letter.

Letters are so powerful. Write a letter to Dave explaining how dating aligns with your new desire to live fully. And at the same time, you're going to cherish his memory. And then, whenever these feelings of guilt, guilt begin to creep in because guilt will creep in. You know what you do? You just reflect on the letter. You know, that's really good.

I think I, because I felt so closed and probably maybe detached, I've, I've almost stopped myself from doing anything like that because I will find it, because it's opening up, isn't it? It's opening up. It's feeling things that you're, I know I need to feel to process, but I'm, I don't, do it because it hurts, I suppose. Yes. But you know why I think that activity in particular will be

so great for you is because you are so honest. Yeah. So you'll put all of those emotions and feelings into that letter. And when you reflect back on it, you know, it's like you're having a conversation with him. Next up, I asked you about, do you have a sense of who you are as an individual

outside of being a parent to Leo and a partner to Dave? And you said, no. This is about self-identity. And the reason why this is so important is because when you're entering a relationship with someone, if you don't have your own identity, you will become dependent on the identity of the relationship or the partner. So you want to have your own identity. And oftentimes when we become parents, when we enter relationships, we lose that identity.

You've admitted to this. Yeah. I come up. Like someone says, what are your hobbies? I'm blinding. Because I go to work. And I'm lucky. I enjoy my job. I'm lucky.

But I did go to work and I'd be a mom. No, it's so interesting that you said, I have no hobbies. Because what do you think I'm going to suggest to you? Find a hobby. What is one thing right now that you can identify that you have a passion around especially maybe that you had as a little girl that you haven't

that you haven't ever pursued I've done lots of like bootcums and things over the years prior to Leo and I did used to really I do enjoy like things like that okay well I say do did so how about we change it to

do you're on this long journey okay the journey is actually never ending and opposed to I think a lot of information comes out, you need to be at the end of the journey. You need to be done. I want everything to be fixed.

And you go, Heather, you're fine. We've done all the green cards. Here, Heather, have these bit of the vitamins that I take. You know. It doesn't work. No, I know. We know. It doesn't work that way.

So instead, I want you to imagine this journey that you're on. And all we're doing today is we're talking about the first step. That's it. And my only promise is that if you make that first step by doing all of these, the next step is going to be a little bit easier. And then if you make two steps in, you know what? The third step is going to be easier. You could definitely do the third step. And by the time you're four or five, six steps in, you're going to look and say, oh, my God, I think I'm halfway through this.

That's how it works. Next, are you open to forming a meaningful connection with someone new? Or does the idea still feel numb or forced? You said, you're open to the connection, but you still feel numb. Yeah. All right. So what I would love for you to do is start with low-stakes social interactions, like meeting friends for coffee, joining a book club, attending a fitness group, what these things do. And you can combine this with the hobby.

but the idea is to reduce the anxiety around meeting people right when we are in relationships that are super super loving we can cocoon ourselves and we stop having all the internet or we slow down on the interactions that we normally have and so this is your opportunity to just begin to flex your charm and your charisma and your small talk which is a skill

I do feel like I can't like talk to anyone I can't you probably I think you can too however I'm just friendly but I don't I can speak to guys I could probably can to feel awkward

but I think sometimes that can come across as because some men think that if a woman speak to them, they automatically want to jump into bed with them. Yep, yep. And I don't. So with this, where I would stare you is to look more so at emotional connection, period. So that could be platonic.

That could be just simply talking to the other people in your swim group. You met Dave. he was not the person you would have selected. No. You know? Not the person at all. And then you became friends first.

That's the answer. It's that, you know, work on selecting great friends establishing those emotional connections. That's the muscle I want you to build. Okay. So with all of these, you do all of these

you're one step on that journey I want you to revisit the questions in the quiz and once you are answering four to five of them green you're ready you're ready

I'll leave you with this unless you have any other questions I'll leave you with this and that is the healing the loss the best way I believe to honor those who we've lost is for us to reinvest in ourselves.

You know? And I know for a fact, I haven't met Dave, but I already know he would want you to be doing these things. Because everything I've outlined, you know what? When you do it,

what happens to you? You become better. You become happier. I now feel ready. But that's the work that needs to be done. Thank you. Fair?

Yeah, very, yeah, thank you. All right, you got it, you got it. As we say in the States of the law is in your court. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Heather. Thank you. It's now been one year since that first conversation

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and I'm dying to know. I truly, truly, truly need to know. How are you? doing when you're on? I would say I would use the word good. I would say I am good and I never thought when I saw you last that I would be able to say that I am good a year later. Wow. I didn't see that and the questions that you asked made me address things that I was probably keeping inside what I hadn't said out loud and you don't realize how powerful it is to say those things out loud to somebody. These conversations, when you're able to sit and have someone, I think, hold space for you, you're able to just relinquish, as you're saying, that weight and leave lighter.

And I think with that lightness, then you're able to do things that you weren't able to do previously. So I gave you a lot from those exercises. Which ones did you do and what were the results of doing them? So the first one I did was the letter. I did delay it for quite a while because I thought it would initially bring up so much emotion. I wasn't sure when the time was right to do it and I needed it to be the right time. Leo and I went on holiday in the February, he went to Egypt and there was one day and Leo had gone back to the room for half an hour and there was a pool below the room.

room and I just sat then I just thought there's there's some paper in a pen in the hotel room that I'm oh I'm going to go and get it I'm going to do that letter and I went straight up and took it straight back down to the sunlanger and then I couldn't stop writing wow look at that look at that the weight of a lot of things that I carried that I shared with Dave were in that letter and it's just I felt lighter to put that down on paper and then it's out of your head a little bit and it leaves space for other things. That's exactly it.

It allows you... And I've been carrying my head for two and a half years now. Precisely, Heather, precisely. Also, when we last spoke, which was a year ago, I can't believe it was a year ago. And Heather, by the way, you're aging, backwards. You're aging backwards. Oh, I hope so. You are. You are. You're aging backwards. I was, yeah, but you have to remember I was probably like quite a wreck last time. So, you know.

You look fabulous. You look fabulous right now. Sounds like you had a great holiday. So it sounds like Leo, how's Leo doing? He's doing good. Thank you. He's, yeah, he's doing really good. How has the year been for you? Not just personally, but also, Heather, how has it been for you? romantically. It's being good. I'm not dating anyone currently. Okay. However, I have, I have dated.

I have dated somebody. And I have been on dates. And I, I can say I've enjoyed, it's felt right. I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed it. Wow. And I never, again, I never thought, I thought, when I last spoke to you,

I think I was in a place, I would, you know, the whole comparison and they're not, well, they're not going to be day one, and comparing and I couldn't, I couldn't get past that. I couldn't see past that, really at all. And I probably was still

maybe quite angry and so, yeah, I think I've, yeah, I've, I've enjoyed dating, Paul. Can I say that? This is good. You can't say that. You can say that. This is good. And I know that's okay. I know that's okay to do.

I don't feel that guilt. And yeah, I don't. You know, so there was a question that I also asked you previously where I said, do you feel like dating would be honoring Dave rather than betraying Dave? Yeah, I don't feel like I'll betraying him. Absolutely not. See, look at that. Look at that.

I love it. What I believe happened when you came, just you accepting coming in to we need to talk last year, you were beginning to acknowledge that you needed to change things and you needed to put yourself first, which is very, very hard to do. If I, I don't think, you might not believe this, but there's, I don't think I would have listened to anyone but you. Oh, wow. Because I, because of the mental health nursing and, you know, we've all, I've tried to

counseling years ago and things like that. And no disrespect to anyone that works in counseling or mental health, but as a mental health nurse, you often, within reason, I've said a lot of those things to my patients that I've worked with over the years because I've always, like, your approach and how you are and how you make people think differently. Because it was you say, this is genuinely, because it was you saying it, what if it's fault telling me then, absolutely.

Whereas because even if you said three out of five things that Colleagues and friends have said You know therapists have said It's almost like people in that field I know they're going to say that because I've said it to people You see what I don't know if that makes sense You know so you're you're teaching me something right now And that is perhaps one of the first steps

Is to identify the person or the entity that you actually you're willing to listen to. You know, maybe that's part of the first. Yeah, sorry to interrupt. I think a lot of people, I think a lot of people, I, you don't, I think people who have been in this situation, they, you all, they almost need people that have been in similar situations to help support them because we're all in a club that we don't want to be in. I will say this is, I can't imagine how.

challenging it was for you to come in and have that initial conversation with me a year ago. But I know in the difficulty that you've had just going back to watch it. And even when I went back to watch it, I thought, wow, look at the place that Heather's in. And it did, to your point, it felt like you were trying to just survive the next day. But in a year's time, what you've done is you've moved from a place of just survival to thriving. And that needs to be applauded. You've done the work. And I'm so proud of you.

I'm so happy for Leo and his future. And I can't wait to see, you know, your next chapter. I can't wait to see what happens in the next year. Look at how good this year was. The next year is going to be even more incredible. And thank you so much for like, you know, for your help. And I'll forever be grateful because, honestly, I needed it so much. much. Thank you. Thank you. So we might have to do this every year. Yeah, that's it.

Same time next year. I'll see you. Same time next year. All right, done. Thank you. Thank you so much, Heather. This was so great to catch up with Heather. What has really put a smile on my face is that she feels as if it was this conversation that we had one year ago that's changed her life, right? It's allowed her to open up and live in a more healthy way, but also allowed her to parent her son in a much better way. And so I am just literally, I'm smiling from cheek to cheek, and I cannot wait to see Heather's next year. And I cannot wait to see her son Leo's next year. So a question that we get all of the time is if we're going to have more of you here in the studio. And the answer is yes, if you hit subscribe. If you like, if you comment.

That way we'll know exactly that this is the type of conversation that you want to hear more. of so please like comment and subscribe