We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - “I Don’t Define My Sexuality!” Lorna Luxe EXCLUSIVELY Shares The Truth About Her Marriage

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

Fashion influencer and entrepreneur Lorna Luxe sits down with Paul for her most revealing interview yet. In this episode of We Need To Talk, Lorna opens up about the battles that shaped her - from growing up in Manchester with a fractured relationship with her father, to her struggle with food that cost her her dream job as cabin crew. She reflects on how she built from the ground up - finding connections through Instagram, building a community of over 1.5 million, launching global fashion partnerships, and creating her own successful brands. For the first time, Lorna also speaks candidly about her first relationship - with a woman she felt too ashamed to tell anyone about - and the life she’s built since with her husband John. She shares the reality of navigating a 21-year age gap and the quiet strength holding them together as John continues his battle with cancer. This is a story of survival, self-worth, and what it really means to take control of your own narrative. Please note this conversation includes sensitive topics that may be distressing. We’ve included support charities below: MIND: https://g2ul0.app.link/Ne9MpdtBjTb   Beat Eating Disorders https://g2ul0.app.link/gHK6cjr3ZRb Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod  Follow Lorna here: Instagram https://g2ul0.app.link/eyYrzYw6PTb  TikTok https://g2ul0.app.link/Gdch1uz6PTb  No98 Beauty https://g2ul0.app.link/ssYHJ7s6PTb No98 Beauty Instagram https://g2ul0.app.link/aGExYSo6PTb (0:00) Intro   (2:47) Lorna's First Childhood Memory   (8:51) Paul Shows Lorna a Picture of When She Was 6 Years Old   (10:04) Lorna's Childhood   (11:05) Lorna's Early Relationships and Sexuality  (14:37) Why Lorna Decided to Work in Cabin Crew   (16:33) Dating in Brighton Post-University   (19:25) Lorna's Time as a Flight Attendant   (22:16) Lorna's Struggles with Eating Disorders   (39:31) Lorna's Marriage to Her Husband John   (58:45) Shopify Ad   (59:49) Tinder Ad   (1:01:07) Lorna's Thoughts on Having Children   (1:03:19) John's Current Health   (1:19:12) How Lorna Got Into Her Influencing Career   (1:32:04) Most Memorable Conversation   (1:36:00) Paul's Takeaways   (1:39:07) Crossed Wires Ad   Sponsored by: Shopify: www.shopify.co.uk/needtotalk  Tinder: https://tinder.com/en-GB  We Need To Talk LIVE: https://g2ul0.app.link/VOjDM0icWSb  We Need To Talk: LIVE in Sheffield! Join Paul and a very special guest for our first ever We Need To Talk live show - coming to Crossed Wires on 5th July 2025. Be part of the conversation, in person https://g2ul0.app.link/VOjDM0icWSb Just launched - The Love Journal - a space to build a stronger, more intentional relationship - starting with yourself: https://bit.ly/lovejournal-mp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. You're racing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie's sleep solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's O-L-L-L-Y.com. My first relationship was with a woman. I was so ashamed of being a lesbian that I hid her. from everybody. She was the only person I'd felt safe with. I really cared for her. Born a Lux. Born a Lux is going to look.

John, my husband, he's 21 years older than me. There's people that could see someone who's 20 years older and say, oh, look at this perverted old man. But there's others that quickly see stability, safety, and I believe that's what you saw. And he always says, like, I knew from the day I met you that I was never letting this one go. He had cancer. And then in the midst of all this, he got diagnosed with a brain tumor. I'm watching someone fade away in front of my eyes. Every month we're earning more money. Can you disclose what a good month was for you?

I think at the high I got paid like... Already, my mind has been blown three times. My head success meant being skinny. I developed a massive eating disorder when I was flying. You were still cabin crew. I was getting weaker and weaker because I wasn't eating. And then I remember meeting with a doctor. And he was like, this is really worrying.

I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I have a little surprise for you. for you. Oh, God. I've never spoken about this before. I probably shouldn't now, but I'll say it. Just a quick one before we continue. We are so close. I mean, this close to hitting 200,000 subscribers. So first, if you have subscribed, thank you. And if you have not, why haven't you? No, please, please, please, if you could subscribe. And here's the reason why. Because every subscription helps us to grow the channel, which allows us to continue bringing you more brilliant conversations. It's free. It takes only two seconds and you can do it right here. Perfectly matched

color-wise. I'll be honest. I did look at the studio a few times and think and look at what different people were wearing. And I thought, yeah, that will go with that. I've noticed that certain guests will come and they'll say, I want to stand out. Yeah, of course. So they wear colors, make them pop. Yeah. What you've done is you've complemented. Yeah, I'm blending in. Yeah. I wonder what that means. What do you think that means? I think I can, I can. I'm. I'm a lot. I, I can be a bit of a chameleon generally to life and fit into pretty much any scenario. So maybe I do that with my fashion as well. Okay.

Safer, right? It could be. I don't know. You just used a word that I believe could be a recurring word in this conversation. You know what that word is? Go on, tell me. Safety. Yeah, I think it probably is.

Can we go back? Okay. And where were you born? I was born in Warrington, which is near Manchester, but not about an hour away. Okay. Nearer to, like, Liverpool. But, yeah. My first memory is not of being in Warrington, it's being in sale in Manchester.

In Manchester. So I can't remember anything about Warrington. So when you, your first memory, you are held? Probably three or four. Three or four. My genuine first memory. is of my dad, me chasing after my dad on the driveway of our house and him leaving and me crying saying, please don't go.

And then cuddling my mum. And I just remember being really annoyed with him that he'd upset my mum and that we'd been effectively abandoned. And that sense of rejection has never left me in everything I've done since. So I really felt that was a very important thing that happened to me that day. He was having an affair

and I kind of knew I kind of knew he was because I don't have actual memories but I just remember the feeling of being with him when he went to see his other girlfriend but I don't know what I was doing maybe I've blocked it out, I don't know.

But yeah, that impacts you, doesn't it? Because it's just horrible thing to happen. Although now I look back as an adult and I get it like maybe you weren't in love my mum maybe you found this other person you love but I just think he handled it so badly and that's a shame on him really it's one of those where I don't think that parents or should I say adults realize the impact that their behavior has on children massively you're so impressionable aren't you yeah especially at four or five because we're forming our attachments

and you could be in a position where you were moving into what was considered a secure attachment and then once one parent leaves, you can move into more of an insecure attachment and there's other challenges that could come up. So how do you believe that impacted you early on in life? I think it probably made me feel vulnerable and not good enough. because he'd gone somewhere better. And certainly because we, my mum couldn't afford to live where we lived on our own, we obviously moved out and moved to my grandparents.

But he moved in to his new girlfriend's place. And that seemed to be much nicer than what we'd had originally. So I saw a man that was leaving me to go to somewhere better. And we were having to go somewhere less than. And I think there was a frustration that I didn't understand that I almost kind of thought, well, yeah, I get it. Don't blame you. It's probably better over there.

And I kind of almost apologise for him in a way and defended him to my mum. And I mean, I would see him. He used to come and take me out on Sundays. And he'd always be talking about his holidays that he'd been on with his girlfriend or his now wife and, you know, all these lovely things. And that was quite hurtful.

But I just think he had no self-awareness. to realize how that hurtful that might be. And I think that as I've got older, I've deliberately forced myself to be more self-aware to almost like overcompensate. So I don't like to, you know, don't want to offend anyone or, you know, almost become a bit people-pleasy

because I know that people can just drop you if you aren't good enough. And that's what my dad's kind of legacy is for me, I think. Did you feel like you were not good enough? Yeah, oh, absolutely. Absolutely, I did. I don't think that as an adult, I don't look at him now with contempt or anything like that. I kind of understand that it was a difficult situation. But I don't think he really understands how much he let me down

when actually I was quite vulnerable and he had all the tools to fix it. And he chose not to. But genuinely over my lifetime, people do that right they don't always they can they have the tools to help or make a difference and they choose not to so it's almost taught me that you can't really rely on anyone you have to kind of look after yourself a little bit so many children of parents who split up believe they are the reason yeah I think I did and maybe I was in a way because I think that he started his affair when my mom was pregnant so maybe you know not having that person for just him I mean I will never know and it will probably

I'll take it to my grave I'll always be wondering because we've never had the conversation yeah well can I help to shed some light on that now is that you were never the reason okay

you were never the reason I know that without a doubt the child is never the reason right for you know when someone chooses to

act out in poor behavior and hurt others, it is their issue. Yeah, you're right. And it stems from perhaps how they grew up, how they were socialized, but you were not. You were love. Yeah. You know, you were a little girl, four years old. Yeah, and I was genuinely quite kind of confident, and I think I lost a lot of confidence. And I think I lost a lot of confidence after that. So it really did. Now I look back, I'm like, I want to shake that child and be like, don't worry. It's not as bad as you think.

It's not as bad. It's interesting that you're talking about. You lost confidence at that time because I have a little surprise for you. Do you? What are you going to show me? Okay. And I want you to tell me. What is it?

What you see. Okay. Okay. Okay. Ready? Oh, God. Who got you that? So what are you looking at right now? now.

So this is me probably, I don't know, how old I'm there? Maybe six. In my Nana and Granddad's garden. Head to toe pink. Not probably that happy then. And I'd started to gain weight because I didn't play out. So I used to just sit with my granddad and eat. So I'd gone from being quite slim to, I was starting.

I can see there that. I know it sounds awful because most people would look at that picture and be like, It's just a cute little kid. But to me, that represents my, what then became my, you know, my relationship with food. Interesting. And how that wasn't a good thing. God, that's such an old picture. You just mentioned that you didn't like playing out.

No, I didn't. So why not? Because when we'd moved to my nan and grandad, it was on a council estate. And I didn't realize that I'd develop this kind of voice that the kids on the estate thought it was posh. And they thought that I thought I was better than I was. So there was a bit of bullying. And if I took my bike around, like, you could drive around in a circle, the houses. I remember a couple of times kids, like, trying to knock me off my bike and stuff.

So I was like, I'm not getting into that. I wasn't a kind of confrontational kind of person. So I just used to stay in the house. Okay. Who and where did you feel safe in that time of your life? Was it with... Yeah, at home with Nana and Granddad and my mom. Okay.

But Mom was working and Nan and Granddad didn't. They'd retired. And they were just dead nice, like nice people. Very cute. So now, in those early years as well, what about relationships? At what age do you feel like you had your first boyfriend? I had my first boyfriend at 17. And I worked at Curry.

which is like an electrical store. And there's a lot of guys, because obviously boys love electrics, don't they? Sure. And so I really liked that. And I liked the dynamic of men and how you could kind of, you know, women are very difficult to manipulate in some ways.

And men are very kind of easy to in other ways. And I loved that dynamic because I've never had it because all my kind of friends growing up with girls. Interesting. So what were some of the lessons that you learned in terms of the manipulation of men, the ease of the relation of men. I think just the ability to get out of doing stuff

by just being cute and then wanting to help you and do stuff for you. And that's really powerful. And I really harnessed that when I went to uni. The first year of uni, I kind of didn't, I wasn't very good at adulthood. So I didn't know how to eat properly and didn't know how to not get drunk.

And so I put on a lot of weight in my first year at uni. Interesting. And what I recognised was that my, flatmates that were all very pretty girls, slim girls, were getting all these boys and all this attention and I wanted that. So then when I came back for the second year, I'd been dieting over the summer and then it kind of changed the game for me in a way and gave me a confidence that I'd not had before as a woman rather than a girl. So you got more attention? Got more attention. I liked it. And you equated that to weight. Yeah, and how I looked.

Yeah, I did actually. Like my value came from how I looked and not my personality. Okay. So getting, once you got that attention coming back, because you had slimmed down, did you do anything else with? Yeah, straightened my hair. I used to have curly hair and I straightened it. I had a bit of a mini glow up, I'd say. Mini glow up, all right.

So who did you become at university? I became, I think I became a woman. as opposed to a girl. And I was fighting a lot of conflicting thoughts around that time. I've never spoken about this before. I probably shouldn't now, but I'll say it. My first kind of major relationship at university was with a woman. And I was so ashamed of, you know, being a lesbian

that I hid her from my friends and everybody for, you know, a couple of years. And my flatmate never knew. think she knew anyway. I really cared for her. And I kind of screwed it up because of being afraid to be who I want to be. Sure. And she got sick of it in the end and she sacked me off. Fair play to her. And I mean, we're still friends now. But I understand why she did that at the time I didn't. And it was very like, it was a real important thing to happen to me because it wasn't about being gay or straight or whatever you want to label it. It was about the fact that I was somebody that could connect with anyone if they were, you know what I mean?

I didn't define myself even at that age. Yes. And that set the ball rolling for how my relationships would play out when I kind of grew up. And I do remember thinking, certainly when I got my job at Virgin, am I going to be, what am I going to be now? Because I can reinvent myself. And I can embrace me because no one knows me. Interesting.

And so I did, really. Really. So why Virgin, why cabin crew? Why did you decide that path? That was more kind of, there was a financial issue that I knew I had to go home after uni and I didn't have a job to go to. And I'd seen on the back of a cosmopolitan magazine this ad for Virgin Atlantic and I was like, she looks really good in her uniform and that's cute.

I want to be that person. And so I applied and got an interview. This was back in the day where they would like weigh you and try the union. uniform on you to see if you look nice and... Really? In the... Yeah. It was really...

We're going back to like early 2000s. My mother was cabin crew for an airline that was... That's no longer in existence. But what I distinctly remember was how glamorous my mother looked and her friends. It was... And quite honestly, you know, my mother, before that she was a model. Right, okay. You know, so it was, you know, I mean, I'm talking about it was high-end glamour.

Yeah. And so it sounds like that attracted. I loved that. I wanted a job that people would be like, oh, she does that. Yes. And I didn't really have any other skills. So I was like, that's actually quite a good job for me. Okay.

It really helped me at that age at 21. It gave me a new identity. And I very much embraced it. I remember going home on the train. They'd given us crew tags. And I had the crew tag, like casually like on my bag. that people could see. I was Virgin Crew.

I was so proud. And like any institution, I suppose, you've become really proud of the uniform, don't you? Yes. And I loved, I met some girls on my training course, so we moved to Brighton. I remember the girls I live with one of them being like, so she had a job on the side.

She was a lap dancer on her days off. And she'd met this very hot guy or whatever. And she set me up kind of on a bit of a blindish date with this guy who I did end up dating. Okay. And how did you find that experience? Well, I felt like I fitted in with my friends again. And I quite liked that.

So I was dating someone that was, he was an athlete, he was a professional sportsman with a public profile and, you know, people knew him. So it was like, it was almost like credibility. Street, he gave me street cred. To date someone that was semi-famous. And I, he wasn't right for me either, but I couldn't see that at the time.

time. You know what I find so interesting about that, though, is the first response when I asked you, how did you find that experience, was that you basically, well, not you, basically you said, it allowed you to fit in with your friends. Yeah, it did. So it was the utility. It was. It was a vehicle.

Yes. For what I needed at the time. And it was great in that sense. But was I personally, you know, emotionally fulfilled? Not really. I think what it made me realize was that I wasn't necessarily attracted to a man or a woman

I was attracted to the person so I've had two relationships in my life where I felt that connection to the person and I think and one's been a man one's been a woman but I think the other people I was dating was just to try and tick a box or fill a gap

or fill a void sure shorter. And I certainly hung a lot of my identity on dating this sportsman because everyone loved it. And it was, you know, when I was crew on flights, they'd asked me what my boyfriend did and I could show off about him. And so when that relationship ended, I felt like I did when my dad left it for. Like almost he'd taken away my, you know, he'd almost like just turned everything upside down and ruined it all. we had this good thing and you've just spoiled it but I wasn't that bothered about losing him

it was what he represented and I quickly jumped from obviously after splitting up with him my next relationship was my husband my now husband this is a relationship that that people have questions but I think that it's important

to clarify these questions because it speaks to this idea of not living by this script that were being handed. I see that I didn't realize this was going to be a common theme, but that is a common theme here, is that you live off the beaten path. Yeah, I know.

But where I'd love to go back to is Virgin being cabin crew at Virgin, that was a training ground for many things in your life, leadership, entrepreneurship, etc. So when it came to what you learned around that first class, though, but I'm super curious by that is, what was it? Because, you know, I see it all. the time. First class is incredibly expensive. Yeah, it's so expensive. I mean, incredibly expensive. So on average, a ticket, what would you say a ticket if you're going to, if you're paying full price,

first class from London to New York is what? I mean, probably from six grand onwards, right? Right. Six. Because get daft if you booked it for last minute. 10,000, 12,000. So who's buying this? What are they doing? What are their careers? So I'm a bit of chatterbox. So I would chat to all my sponsors. when I was working in upper class. And it took me four years to get promoted to work in the posh bit.

I was like, they called it like a Jurassic Junior because I was junior crew for so long because I wasn't really like someone that was eager to get promoted. I just quite enjoyed going out and partying when I was on the drips. And then when I finally did get promoted, I made the effort to really chat to the customers.

And we would get maybe 14, 15 each to look after. Okay. And I'd say that there was a real, there was a defining type of person that was sat in that seat. Interesting. It was either a businessman or a businesswoman that hadn't paid for their own ticket and was just working and, you know, that's what they'd been booked on. It was a fabulous celebrity or, you know, someone that was known.

And for them, I had no idea how they'd got that ticket. And then there was also a lot of people that, you know, use Miles and a smile. and, you know, travel a lot and therefore they were maybe on their holidays but they were using all their business miles that they'd acquired over the year. Okay. You can always tell, I always felt like you could spot

who'd been upgraded versus who hadn't. And they might be a bit uncomfortable and a bit like looking around and I always identify with those people because that would be me, right? I'd be the one getting upgraded. So I enjoyed that. I loved being a customer,

I loved customer service. I really think it's a lovely job to have because you can make or break their day basically. Yes. You kind of in charge of their destiny in some ways. So it feels quite empowering. And I really enjoyed it and I love meeting new people. So it was a great job.

Like I loved that job. Just a heads up before we continue. Lorna and I discuss eating disorders. If this is a sensitive topic for you, please watch with care. Did you always feel like it was family? Or were there any moments where you felt like you were ostracized a little bit, or off on your own?

I offed on my own myself. I developed a massive eating disorder when I was flying. While you were flying? I think initially it was just bulimia, which I felt that we were drinking a lot. It was eating at nighttime on night flights. You know, you'd do a night flight home from Orlando. served everyone their chicken nuggets and chips or whatever and beef and chicken and then there'd be loads of meals left in the oven you just eat them but actually it was an extra meal to what you

would have needed so i'd put on a bit of weight and you know and i like i didn't i knew that i had to be a virgin girl and slim and whatnot so i thought oh i can just eat and then i'll chuck it up later so i became a real perjur i wasn't kind of force feeding i was just managing my way through that through purging through purging okay and And then I quickly kind of cotton on that I can maybe under eat a little bit and maybe go the gym a few more times. So my trips, my destinations were changing because I was selecting rather than going to Shanghai and go and shopping for, you know, gorgeous things. I'd rather go, I don't know, to New York for one night and stay in the holiday in where I could use the gym and, you know, I could, no one's going to question where you are in New York, right? You could just go anywhere.

Oh, I just went to met a friend or didn't have to be too so. where you're never going to, you're going to stick with your crew, right, when you're in China or India or somewhere where you don't speak the language. Right. You're going to all stick together. So I changed my, yeah, I just changed my lifestyle effectively and became really singular. So you were literally selecting destinations. Yeah, to hide my eating. To hide your eating.

And to hide my training because I was exercising. Okay. It just got worse and worse But I remember the trigger point for me Where it was like right, this has got a stop I'd picked up a It was a trip It was one night Antigua, one night Grenada

Did the Antigua part of the trips Good crew, very sweet I'd been to the gym I felt good I didn't have to meet anyone And then we had to do a shuttle the next day to Grenada So we shuttled to Grenada And then the ash cloud

meant that all planes were grounded And so I was meant to have like one night in Grenada and fly home But two weeks later we're still there And I'm you know washing my knickers in the sink And I only had I used to exist on these like meal replacement bars Chocolate bars it's like calories I only had like five days worth of these chocolate bars So I was making these bars last

And I was getting weaker and weaker because I wasn't eating And I was out of control And that was really the catalyst for me telling my manager at Virgin that I wasn't well and I think after that flight I don't think I did any more flights after that that was like my last flight and then they grounded me but I was so poorly and I just couldn't see the wood for the trees I just could not reason because in my head success meant

being skinny and the skinnier I got it was like I'd found the secret source I thought it was great so all these people don't get it and I know I get it I know how to be skinny and these people don't. I'd fixated on this achievement that was really so harmful. But did you feel as if telling the manager would what give you just a few days off? Because I'm sure if you didn't think that you would lose your job. No, I didn't.

I thought, oh, I'll get like a couple of weeks off maybe. And they might send me to HR and occupational health. And then I remember meeting with a doctor that John had organized for me to meet. And he said, I'm signing you off for a month, but you're going to need it longer than that. I was like, what? No. I'll be fine. And he was like, no, he was like, this is really worrying. And I was very underway and I just couldn't, I didn't really believe it.

I didn't, even when I was seeing, you know, I went to the priory, they were telling me how ill I was. They wouldn't let me go to the toilet on my own. You know, they wouldn't let me overeat either. They were like, you're so frail and skinny that you can't overeat because it could shock your body. And I was like, this is like something out of a dystopian, not. novel and that's really there were as soon as I kind of met with doctors and they told me everything I really realized how serious it was yes and then they kind of said we can only treat you if you stay in the priory if you you can't be an outpatient and they sent me and john home to get my

bags and stuff and we pulled up outside the house and I said to john if you make me go back I'll do it but the marriage is over we're done and the trust is gone and so he said right well you're not going

and I said I promise you I'm going to try my bet I'm going to try my hardest I promise you and we went to what is ZZZ's in Brighton and I ordered a lasagna and I ate

a quarter of a lasagna in front of them which is a lot of food for me then Yeah, I can imagine. And it was just really, you know, I don't know how we got through those years, if I'm honest, because it's not, recovery isn't like, you don't just do it in a few months. No.

This took, like, years. Never really going to be recovered. But I just remember feeling like I've got to take charge of this because I was losing control. And for so long I'd had this control over my body and my weight. Yes. And maybe the job allowed that a little bit. because as much as it was a family,

you never flew with the same people. So it wasn't like an office job where people checking you, they know you day to day. They're like, babes, what are you doing there? I could pretty much kind of just be anonymous and fly under the radar and that's how I think it allowed me

to become so poorly. Yes. Yes. Can we even go deeper on your eating disorder? Yeah. Because, you know, it was in the research that I was doing for this conversation

that I stumbled upon something that was mind-blowing to me. And that is that eating disorders, in particular anorexia, has one of the highest mortality rates among mental illnesses. Yeah. Right. I did not know. And I didn't fully understand the complexity of eating disorders, right,

where they stem from, and how they're exacerbated. So when you think back, were you ever specifically treated? For your anorexia? I was. I got a therapist. Okay. And she was good. I, and she really wanted to unpick my dad.

I remember that. And she called it like pulling out drawers. And I actually got iller after having therapy at the beginning. I almost the trauma of going through everything. It made me a bit worse. And then I kind of developed some skills to kind of manage. what I was doing. A lot of my recovery has been through the gentleness of John and my mom and my family

and friends, but also my own determination to just get over it. And for me, that's been about having control over something else. So I always understood I've got to be in control or something. And it couldn't always be my weight. Yeah. And this is what I find interesting, is that many people see eating disorder and they think it's about food, but it's not about food. No.

It's about safety. It's about identity. Yeah. And it's about emotional control. It really is. And actually, my eating disorder, when I look back, I can trace back the first beginnings of being obsessed with training and under-eating. Happened around the time that my boyfriend had left me, and I just met John.

And John always has blamed himself and always said, no, you pretty much had an eating disorder from the day we met. And it's my fault. I allowed that. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. You kind of like save me because all that trauma was before I met you. Right. And then it kind of played out in this what was a really, you know, distressing period for him as well.

Yeah, yeah. Because it waits on, right, not just you. Yeah. But all of those around you. Everyone's worried and it's, you know, it was just, I wouldn't wish it on, yeah, my worst enemy. It was like, it's a horrible disease to have. and there's an embarrassment right there's a bit of shame in there as well because you know mental health and mental anything with the word mental in it has a negative connotation so you don't want to admit

to having a poor mental health what will people think will they think less of me or that I'm not as reliable or you know I'm not someone to be relied upon and I still you know I talk about my eating disorder very rarely now online. But when I do, I have to, I feel like I have to really be careful what I say, the wording, because things are so triggering. And anyone that, you know, if somebody's listening to this that is in the depths of an eating disorder, they'll probably be listening and maybe acknowledging what I'm saying, but they're not going to necessarily take it on board.

They're like, that's that person, but that's not me. I'm not that bad. Which is scary, right? It is. 1.25 million people in the UK have an eating disorder. All right. Roughly 9% of people in the U.S. will have an eating disorder in their lifetime.

And that equates to roughly 30 million people. An eating disorder is a mental health condition where you use the control of food to cope with feelings and other situations. Yeah. Right. So to your point, it is a control. mechanism. It's a coping mechanism, but it becomes exacerbated in our life based on certain moments. So when you think throughout your life, can you see the moments where, and what were those moments?

Because I think this is helpful for people who are watching or listening. Probably my first realization about controlling food was seeing my mom doing Slim Fast when we'd moved into nine and granddad's. because she wanted to be slimmer and, I don't know, maybe she was looking for a new boyfriend, I don't know. So there was an, I could see that, a relationship between if the way you look and food. So she was controlling her diet. And so I would overeat, right, as a kid, I overate because it was comfort. But then when I realised that people judge you on how I looked, I had to then under-eat.

And there's something about being in control of your, what goes in your body, that no one else can take control of. It's the one thing really, right? No one else can really impact. So at every point in my life where I felt very anxious when my ex-boyfriend left me, when even crazy things like, you know, as an influencer, but I've been trolled before

and I've immediately gone and purged because there's that immediacy of like, right, I just need to just release. And it feels like a release. It's quite an addictive, feeling. So food will always be something that I just, you, not as a, it's not a crutch as such, but I think, I'm not someone that doesn't think about what they're eating. But because I'm feeling empowered with my job, all right, there's a lot of worry at the minute with John. But because work is,

you know, it's going well, I'm working really hard. I can put all the control into that. And then I'm just eating food is fuel. But I can see how if, you know, if I lost John or if something majorly traumatic happens to me, I could be very vulnerable to going down it or very fast because it would take hold very quickly because I think I would just allow it. So I do have to kind of check myself and I got a fluctuate in weight and all my friends worry about me and my eating and John really is the guy that keeps me in check

so not having him around at the minute that's a you know I think my mom worries for me in that sense yes because she's like you've not got your person just keeping an eye on you and and yeah just going back to your question

that is that little traumas that are almost like PTSD of that moment when I was a kid anything that makes me feel the same way like oh I'm losing control I can't control this I'm being rejected or that's when it comes out for me yes but I would say that since

that's why this career that I've got now has been so so good because the feeling of having like the first feeling of growing on Instagram back in the day created the same excitement endorphins and like that feeling valuable and part of a team that I had when I got my job at Virgin.

It was like, I'm accepted and do you know what to me? Yeah, yeah, you wanted, yeah. And then you crave it then, right? So you're chasing, so I'm still chasing it, I imagine. Yes. The same feelings. And what if it ends? Like, what if tomorrow, you know, I get cancelled or people don't like me anymore and not interested?

Will it be like Virgin where I'm so defined by my status and my job that what will I do next? Yeah. That's why it's so important to discover internal validation. Yeah, it is. You know, because as long as we are reliant on external, it means that there will be an expiration. It will go away. Yeah. It always does.

But the internal source never does. Yeah. You know, but it's so hard to create that internal, you know, validation. because it's a validation system, you know, it's very hard. Really hard. And, you know, different therapists use different tools, you know, from journaling to manifesting to continually, you know, self-love techniques, etc. But ultimately, I feel like we are all, we all need to find those things

because the more reliant we are on external validation, the more susceptible we are to going down that slippery slope. Yeah. Yeah. I can see now that I'm quite vulnerable in that sense then, because I do think that if I say if I were to lose John, he's really my only home, if you like. And then all my other validations are coming from external sources. Yes. Which is quite a scary place to be. And probably something I need to work on. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. You know, and even there are even some tools I could share with you as well, you know, after this.

But, but absolutely, because you, and you mentioned this earlier too, and this is absolutely fact, is that anorexia and other forms of eating disorders, typically it's something that we have for life. Yeah, I know that. You know, yeah, it's something that we have for life and it's something that we have to learn how to manage. Yeah. You know, and typically it's not defeated for good, but it is, but, but, you know, you can win the war. Yeah.

But you know that you'll always have to battle it. Gotcha. You know. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. And you will win the war. You're winning the war.

I really am. And I do sometimes think, yeah, I've done all right there to keep, to keep that at bay. Yes. But it's a very addictive disease, I would say. So it's very, it's a comfort blanket. when everything's going wrong. Yeah. And sometimes nothing's going wrong.

But it's just how it feels. Like it's optics, it's perception and how it feels to me. Yes. You know, that perfectionism of wanting things to be the best. Yeah. And it gives you the control.

It gives me so much control and it doesn't rely on anyone else. It's just my own little thing. There you go. There you go. And for someone who was a little girl, that was, you could see that you didn't have that. No, I didn't.

You didn't have control. over that scenario, that situation. You place the blame on yourself. So to have now something that you can control entirely, right? That's the reason why it persists. Yeah, you're right. Can we talk about John? Yeah.

Because there's so many, I mean, let's talk about how you met John. Because I saw a video with John describing how he met. Really? Yes. I must have seen this video. Yes. Well, technically you were in the video. Was I in it?

Yeah. Yeah, you were in the video. But meeting John, what was that moment when you met him? Because you were still at Virgin. I was still at Virgin. Okay. And I'd done a four-night Antigua. I really like the crew on that trip.

And I remember there was a guy on the crew who was quite, he'd been there quite a long time, he's a bit older. And he was like, I'll set you with one of my mates. Like, you're going to be fine. You don't need to date that sports guy. He was a cricketer and this guy loved cricket. Okay. And so when I told him I'd split up with this guy, he was like, Oh, well, he was rubbish at cricket anyway, so you better off without him.

And I thought, I like you. You're a good guy. And so that Saturday, that weekend, when we got back from Antigua, me and a couple of the girls on that flight decided to go out in Brighton. And we went into a bar and I spotted the guy that was on the flight. Not planned. He just happened to be there as well. Okay.

And he was with John. That was his friend. And the story, as John says, is that he saw me walk in the bar. And he was like, I couldn't, like, take my eyes off you. And so I said to my, my mate said he knew me. and so he said to Steve can you introduce me to that girl and so he said yeah come on we'll go on

and chat to them and I couldn't understand why this guy was just talking at me and he was going through a divorce he was talking sort of trauma dumping and like really like upload and I was like oh my god but very sweet and then we went to a nightclub and they kind of hung on we were like we're going to go to the club now

and they were like welcome and I remember having about 60 quid left in my bank account and I said to John and the other guys I was like, can I get you a drink? And I don't think John heard what I said. So I just went and got them drinks. And then when I brought the drinks back, it was like 40 quits.

I was like, I've only got 20 quid left now for the rest. It's all Monday. And I remember him saying, no, you didn't have to buy me a drink. And I was like, oh no, I wanted to. And I think he was really touched by that. And so he said, can I have your number? And I was like, no. but I'll have yours.

And then that very night when I got in, I texted him. And just it was lovely to meet you. And that was kind of how we met. Look at that. Look at that. And then what happened next? Because I think that's the part in everyone's romance story that we want to hear. Because that was beautiful.

Yeah, that was cute. That was cute. That was cute. That was cute. But then what happened next? Yeah. How does the relationship actually form? So he was quick on the texts.

Okay. And so once he had my knowledge. number he asked me out on a date. He gave me options, which I now realize he's a very John thing to do. It's not because he's not confident. He's just, you know, these are options. So the text message was so long, it was like an essay. Okay. And I remember just replying back Brown's 7pm. And that was it kind of. So he gave you options, different restaurants. Yeah. And I was being cool and like, whatever. And I liked that. He was over keen. And I remember I arrived. I'd already been there an hour waiting.

And he'd got a bottle of wine, not a glass, and I liked that. I was like, this guy's confident. And he's older. He's 21 years older. So he had an innate confidence about him that I just really was attracted to. And he was very kind. I mean, that's the takeaway from anyone that meets John. He's just genuinely kind.

And we just got into this rhythm of dating, and every date we would always go back to his place for a nightcap. And I would never stay over. but when I left there would always be a gift he'd always gone to somewhere like he went to Space NK or he went to Loxetan or wherever and he'd always get me some kind of beauty or skincare goodies

in a little bag and this went on for weeks and also the cab back to his was eight quid from Kemptown to Hove Oh my goodness but he always gave me £20 note when I got in the cab so he was almost like taking care of me

and me and the girls I was friends with there in Hove used to laugh and be like you're always 12 quid up on a date with him. And at first I just thought, oh yeah, I'm just dating this older guy. Like it's a bit of fun, that kind of thing. I'm not really, you know, it's not going to go anywhere. But slowly I really started to like him. And I was like, well, actually, I do quite like this guy.

And this was obviously fresh off the back of me splitting up with my ex-boyfriend. So I was looking for somewhere new to live. And he was going through a divorce. So he was looking for somewhere to live. And so I would go house-hunt him with him. and he was looking at these extravagant, beautiful places. And then he'd come with me looking for these rentals that were like really bad.

And then one day he just said, why don't we just buy together and I'll get... Now, how long had you been seen each other? Three months. Three months, okay. And he was like, but I'll get my lawyer to put into writing that you can just... If you want to walk away at any moment,

you need to take your money. And it's cool. I respect that. And any equity that's in the property. And I was like, this is a good deal. And his lawyer as well was a bit like, John, why are you doing this? So then that was it. So I remember I expressly told him that when I bought my old flat with my ex-boyfriend,

that that was my dream road. I loved that road. And I was gutted that I was having to move out and move somewhere else. So he found a really beautiful apartment on this road. And he took me to see it. And I was like, my God, this is amazing. And he was like, good, because I've just made it off. that should we buy it.

And so he kind of bought my dream home. Wow. He wasn't playing games. I'd say he was not playing. He was like, fellas, take notes. He was not playing. And he always says, like, I knew from the day I met you that you were, that you were it for me, that I was never letting this one go.

And he was just so determined. Yeah. Which I really respect and admire. But for, I think a lot of people, like until my mum met him, she was worried. Like, she's listening to these stories down the phone. she's up in Manchester and she's like, who's this guy? And like, I need to meet him.

And then when she met him, she understood. Sure. But you know how, so it's interesting because I can empathize and sympathize with how John moved. Yeah. Because I didn't have those resources, but that's how I moved with my wife.

Yeah. Very intentional, not playing around. No. I want to express how serious I am. And I felt like I was in love day one. Yeah. You know? I feel like that's exactly where John was. Oh, he totally was.

But for a lot of people, they'll enter a relationship with someone who is love bombing them, you know, it coming from a nefarious position. So how did you know what John, you know, what he was doing? How did you know that that was authentic, that it wasn't an act? I didn't give it too much thought. I just really trusted him straight away and felt very safe with him. His brother is epileptic and is a year older than him, but has pretty much lived in an institution or a care home since he's been a kid. And the care that he showed his brother, like blew my mind.

And that empathy he has for his brother, I think has made him into the many years today. So he's got a naturally caring way about him. Okay. And always wanting to do, he'll do anything for anyone. He'll give anyone anything he's got. And I liked that because I really saw that was quite an admirable trait to have. Okay. And it made me feel good to be with someone like that.

Yes. It was just really quite a nice person. I like that word that you used immediately. I felt safe with him. Yeah, I did. Yes. And he would just protect me from everything. And I felt like this guy is just going to look after me.

And this is a solid person. Yes. and you know we quickly got engaged and quickly got married how long i think in total a year and a half from meeting to getting married okay that is quick yeah that's quick were there concerns from any friends or family members at all no i think i didn't have massive family and everyone that had met him seemed to really like him my friends they were they were just quite self-focused at period they were people that had their own lives going on their own issues quite dramatic had a

quite dramatic group of friends so they weren't really bothered you know they were looking forward to the party the wedding was going to be good right so they liked and also john was very generous so you know they enjoyed being around john sure you know he'd pay for everyone's dinners and there was always champagne in our fridge so it was always you know we were a good a solid friendship to have yes and And yeah, no one really expressed any concern. I think his dad a little bit did. And his dad's wife pretty much said to me, you shouldn't do this.

You're not thinking this through. She was kind of keen to dissuade me. And I think maybe that came from experience because she was married to his dad and she was the same age gap. Oh, 21 years. I think about that, yeah. So I think she was trying to say,

look, you know, it's great. It's all hunky dory now when you're 25 and he's 46. But wait until, you know, you're 60 and he's 80, there'll be a big difference. Yes. And that's what she was in. And I couldn't really understand that. And I still can't, to be honest. Yeah.

You know what's so interesting about that is that there is research to suggest this, something like this. And what the research shows is that where you see a large age gap, so 10 years or more, in either direction. what you see is much high satisfaction or higher satisfaction in the early stages of the relationship. Yeah. You know, it's not to say that the satisfaction level goes down, but it just goes to show that the satisfaction in the early stages is higher than if there's no age gap.

I think because you're teaching each other things, right? And he said, I made him feel alive. And there was excitement. And, you know, he's taking away on lots of trouble. He loved my lifestyle. And he in turn made me feel really safe, really cherished and loved. And genuinely gave me the breathing space to try and figure out what I want to do in my life. And certainly, obviously, I was battling an eating disorder.

But alongside that, I was also growing as a woman and growing in confidence. And, you know, he encouraged all of that. Yes. And it wasn't, you can't do this. So you just wanted to help me do whatever I wanted to do. Yes. Now, you were, so at that time, when you got married, how old were you? So I got married on my 26th birthday.

Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. So you were 26. So he was. 47. 47. Yeah.

All right. 26, 47. Now, at that point, were you online at that point? No. I was on Facebook. You were on Facebook. So there was no one saying, look at this age gap. No.

There was no one. No one critical about that relationship. Okay. And you didn't feel, you felt like it was, it didn't matter because you're with someone who you love. I had reservations in terms of I'd never, other than my Nana and Granddad, I'd never really seen a marriage last. And I remember my bridesmaid saying to me outside the door before we went in, she said to me, at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, you can just get divorced. And I was like, yeah, no, I'm not really worried.

And in my head, and I've told John this before, that's how I approached it. I didn't see it as a lifelong commitment the way he did. I saw it as a, well, this will do for now, and it really suits me and I really love him. But if that thing's change, it's fine. And it's only as I've been married longer and longer, I recognise that actually that was a stupid thing to think. That's interesting. And it doesn't make any sense. This is so interesting to me because I believe that more and more people view more

marriage as you viewed it going in and that is that this thing that we have is disposable so we can walk into it and we can walk out right it was like a mortgage harder to get out of a mortgage in the way I looked at it yeah but then there's other people it sounds like this is how John thought is John sounds like he his thought was this is this is it yeah he did now you mentioned that he had gone through a divorce so he was married previously twice before yeah Twice before. Yeah. So what was, so walking into this one, your thought is that he believed this was it.

He was not going to be married again. I did. He always said to me, I've never been in love before. I promise you that. And I believe him. Or at least the love he experienced with me, he'd never felt before. So I never felt as though it was, you know, for him, he likes wedding cake, you know, it's just another jolly. I really did believe he was committed to me fully

and I liked that feeling. Yes. There's something really lovely about having loyalty and that person that's never going to drop you. You know, I'm never going to be chasing after John down the driveway. He's always going to be there for me. And I thought I could see how important that was and that's what I needed.

Yeah. You just mentioned you'll never have to chase him down the driveway like you did your father. Yeah. Do you see any connection between your father walking out when you were four and your feeling of comfort with John being 21 years older than you? Do you see any connection? I actually see more of a connection with John and my granddad. Okay.

Because my granddad was that saving person that cuddled me when everything was going wrong. And I would sit and eat, you know, rubbish food within the evening. and watched Snooker and crap telly. So he was my comfort. And when I met John, I always thought, because Grandad had died by the time I met John, but I always thought, you're a lot like my granddad. You've got a similar personality.

Yes. Calm, like very stoic, very, you know, reliable and charismatic. Yes. You know, he ticked all those boxes for me. Yes. And even my mum has said, I can see, you know, those similarities. And so I never put him in the realm of my dad. If anything, my ex-boyfriend reminded me of my dad.

There definitely must be daddy issues going on here. But I've always kind of like kept them away from John because I don't want to spoil what I have. Because we've had it for so long as well now. Yeah. I don't want to ever think badly of John or because it won't be, it won't be him. It'll be me. But I don't want to tarnish what is a really good relationship. Yeah.

Now, I mean, clearly, you have love. Yeah, we have. We absolutely love it, but it's a bit. You have love. And you know what's even interesting, too, is that, you know, I think that you could read a lot about someone based on the images that they post online. Yeah. I truly do.

Even though we're all trying to present the best representation of ourselves, I think there's certain things that you could read into someone's profile. And it was interesting. my wife and I, we were going through yours. We did this long stalk of yours. And I said, you know, one thing is clear, she loves him. Yeah, of course. And he loves her. Yeah. And I said, and that, there is no question. No, there isn't. There's no question. And, but I, when I think about your story, I think there is a parallel between John and your father. I'll tell you this, is that there's a researcher. Her name is Dr. Margot Mayne. Okay. She has a theory called Father Hunger.

Oh, God. I know where this is going. Have you ever heard of this theory? I haven't, but just those two words together. Where do you think I'm going with this? That craving for the perfect dad, right? So it's not the craving for the perfect dad, but it is specifically when a father has abandoned his family.

Typically, before the age of what, five? Okay. The child craves safety. Yeah. Emotional connection, stability. And if they, if when the father leaves and that doesn't happen, they spend the rest of their life in search of that. Yeah. And typically, they end up meeting someone who's more.

much older. Oh, God. 10, 15, 21 years. And immediately what they see in that person is different. Because there's other people that could see someone who's 20 years older and say, oh, look at this icky old man. You know, this perverted old man. Yeah.

But there's others that quickly see stability, safety, structure. And I believe that's what you saw very quickly. I totally did. Yeah. And I loved those things. I mean, obviously, I still, like, I fancied him. He was a good-looking guy. We had a lot in common.

Yes. Like, we love the same art. We love the same jokes. Do you know what I mean? We finish each other's sentences. He has his own language that only I can understand. So there's that, but a lot of that's built, right, over time. But there was an initial moment of, yeah,

felt immediately this is perfect. This is what I need right now. Because it's not been the best couple of years. But I would do that all over again. Like that's one relationship that I would, you know what I mean? If I was given lots of different avenues, I would always do the same thing. Yes. Why not?

I mean, it goes to show that when we go through trauma in our lives, that there are, there's a silver lining cloud to it. There's a blessing that could come from it. And the blessing for you was that you've met the love of your life. Yeah. You know, who you may not have maybe formed as quick connection with if it wasn't for that trauma. True. That's a nice way of spinning it. Yeah.

Look, we have a lot of reality TV stars on We Need a Talk. And I'm always talking to them after the recording about what's happening in their lives. And you know what always comes up is that they all are building their own businesses. They are their own brands. And what amazes me most is between filming, interviewing, interview, events, and creating content, they actually have the time to run a business too. But when I ask how they do it, almost everyone gives the same answer. They're using Shopify, which also happens to be a sponsor of this show.

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I mean, one in particular is that when Jill and I were dating, we went to a slam poetry competition, which I will say I knew nothing about slam poetry. And that's when I learned that you snap your fingers, right, when you applaud. I specifically went there because I wanted to impress Jill so that I can get a little, I'll say bonus afterwards, you know. But what I learned through one of the poets is that we are all artists. The poet specifically said, we are all artists. And that triggered something in me. It made me click to the point. where I realized that I wanted to create.

I wanted to figure out how to do that. So afterwards, we went out to eat, Jill and I, and we started talking about creating art together. And I learned from that date that, you know, the date isn't just about the other person. It's not about your physical pleasure. It's not about their physical pleasure. It's about what you can learn about life, about yourself.

It was an unexpected outcome from a date. So wherever a date may lead, it starts with a swipe. That's why you need to download Tinder. Now, you mentioned that you didn't have children. No. So this is a topic that I know that many people have commented. Yeah, they have. Was this a conscious decision on both of your parts not to have children?

So we did try to have children. So I think fresh off getting married, I was a bit like, you know, my eating disorder was taking hold. What do I do next? Maybe I need a child. Maybe that will fix my problems. So we tried. I think we tried for about six months.

And then I remember saying to him, do you know what, I'm just not really into this. Like, I don't even know if I want one. And he said, you know, I married you, not your ovaries. He was like, I really do want a child with you. But it's not the be all and end all for me. As long as I've got you, everything else is just, you know, a bonus. Yes. So I said, well, let's revisit this because, you know, I'm younger than you.

So men can have babies forever. I've got a bit more time on the clock. So let's just revisit it. and we've never really discussed it since. And I'm definitely at that age now where I think, oh, dear me. And every time I meet people in my age bracket, they go freeze your eggs.

You should freeze your eggs. I don't know if one thing me and him did have in common is that we were both kind of fat kids. And we both always joke, you know, God, if we had kids, they'd be burdened with all of our ailments, basically. of, you know, not liking their body and not having a slow metabolism and having, and I'm joking about it because I now know that that's not important, but it's our little joke to each other that kind of gets us off the hook, as if to say that's why we didn't do it

because we wouldn't be very good at it. And certainly I think now when he's so poorly, I don't know if I could be a mum right now and be a good mum because all my energy is on him. So any spare minute I've got, it's very, you have very, very, very, very, very good. on what's going on with him. Right. I'm sure I could be a good mom. But do you know what I mean?

Yes. Even my dog is staying with my mom at the minute because I haven't got the capacity for a little fluffy white maltese terrier. Yeah. So I suppose you deal with it, don't you? You just deal with you a lot. Yeah, you do.

You do. You know, one area two that I want to talk about, but we'll go as deep or not as deep as we want to talk about is John in particular what's going on now. Yeah. Right? because you've alluded to this in the conversation. Yeah.

So John is not well. Yeah. So he's had cancer. He had cancer, esophical cancer, which he had chemotherapy before and had an operation to remove. They took out all his stomach. They made him a new stomach. Oh, wow.

So it was a big operation. Then he was cancer-free, effectively, in remission. And then they discovered that he had adrenal cancer. But the adrenal gland is like hormone, it controls all your hormones in your body. Yeah. And this was a bit trickier because it meant that they couldn't necessarily just go in and rip it out. So they kind of said, you're going to be living with cancer and we're going to give you chemotherapy and radiotherapy.

And we're going to manage it. And then in the midst of all this, he got diagnosed with a brain tumour, a little tumor on the back of his brain, which they took out with cyber knife and got rid of it. So I was like, there's something about you, but you're like, they just can't, you know, you're going to just live forever. And that was all hunky dory. and then about January February of this year he went to chemotherapy on his own and there's a huge guilt around him going to chemo on his own

if I'm working or doing anything there's a real... It makes me sad. But he'd gone on his own and he got there and he fell down the stairs in the hospital and he fell down the stairs, landed onto the lap of a nurse and she got him cleaned up and he'd really gashed his legs and these wounds just wouldn't heal because of the chemotherapy treatment his body just couldn't

heal these wounds. And this is what the source of the infection that's currently put him in hospital. And I thought he'd be in for a few days and they'd sort him out, give him a load of antibiotics and he'd be home. And he's been in a month now. And his infection levels just weren't coming down. There's been days where he's got no idea. He knows who I am, but he's talking absolute gobbard de googoo. It's pretty scary. And weirdly, he's using food to control his situation there. So he stopped eating. And I asked him, why? He's asked him, why? He's you're not eating? He was like, because it's the only thing I can control. So I'm watching someone, you know, pretty much fade away in front of my eyes. And it took maybe in, I think

last week, it was the week where I really had to kind of get a grip and think, hang on, he's not getting this. If he doesn't start eating and he's not going to get out of here alive, and we kind of had that chat. And in the last three days, there's been a marked improvement. So I've seen, I don't think I would have been able to come sit chat to you today, had that not happened but it's happened so I'm like god for that yes and I can you know we're talking to the doctors about getting him home and stuff but that is as really for me I just thought cancer and this is how people die but actually a lot of the can the issues with his cancer and nothing to do with the cancer it's all the other things that come with it that I just wasn't prepared

for and it's you know I've struggled with it because it felt so fast as well like you know we woke up one morning with a sore knee. The infection had spread to his knee and he couldn't walk. So I called an ambulance like you do. And they came and took him and, you know, I thought, you know, I'll pack a few things in his bag, you know, because he might have to stay overnight. I was so naive to what was actually playing out in front of me. So to see him, it really liked losing lots of weight.

He didn't have any weight to lose. It's been tricky for me because I've thought, I'm failing him here and he's always looked after me, always cared for me. and now it's my turn to repay the favour and step up. And we don't live near any family or friends. So it really is just me and one-man band. And it's been a lot, actually, because I've kind of thought I could maybe not mention this online,

but I found quite a lot of comfort chatting about it because I've been coming home at night from the hospital with a glass of wine and a piece of cheese because I couldn't be bothered to make my dinner. And my friends obviously rang me and stuff, but then what do you do? You sit on your phone, don't you? I'm too distracted to go on much a film or read a book.

So I've just been on my phone chatting to people and the comfort that that's brought me. You know, Instagram, TikTok, all these platforms get a lot of, get a bad rep for being a place of negativity or, you know, creating false narratives. For me, it's been quite the opposite. That's where I found the best advice, where I found a lot of maternal people wanting to just take care of me, give me good ideas. I've really got a source of support there that I've not got anywhere else. So it's been, yeah, it's been a bit of a saving grace, to be honest. Yeah, that's incredible.

I've never heard someone positioned social media in that way. But I can see how it is. It's been incredible for you. I mean, in every instances I've been on that platform, it's been the opposite of what people say. My mum made a good point to me when I told her I was coming to see him. I'm not going to talk about, I don't know. And she said, if you do talk about a social,

You should always remember how when I first went on Instagram and I was so scared of putting on weight because there's that control, I would use editing apps to edit my body. And she said that saved my life because she said, you didn't have to starve yourself. You could just make it a bit skinnier.

And it's so unhealthy that. We know now that that's a really bad thing to do and I had to stop that. And I'm sure lots of girls have done this where they've tweaked their face or, you know, snatch their waistline. And again, that's a really negative thing to do. But actually, in that period,

mom says if you didn't have that, I worry for you. Yes. Because you would have had to do it physically. Yes. And you would have been really poorly. Yeah. Because you were so dysmorphic that you couldn't see how small you were.

Absolutely. So there's been lots of instances through social media where you'd think, oh, that would be a bad thing about actually. It's been a good thing for me. But it's been helpful. Yeah. So what have you? learned through social media that's been helpful with you managing John not being home in the

moment? Really practical stuff. So, you know, every time I'll go online, I'll just be honest and say this is what's gone on. And people will message, well, if I've had this, did you try that? I mean, proper practical advice has been great. But also just words of encouragement and me may be feeling a bit low and other people sensing that and just saying, you're doing all right. You need it.

Like sometimes it's not enough to just come from me more, more from family. You need it from, you need that validation from people that you don't know so well. Or I do anyway. And it's made me, yeah, it's made me well up a few times this week. When I've read messages, I thought, oh my God, they're going to set me off. Because there's a lot of love there. And I think the story that I'm going through is quite common. So this isn't, you know, it's.

not a unique, you know, we're not a unicorn couple where no one else has been through this. So many people have been through this trauma. This is in particular why I wanted to have this conversation with you. Okay. Because this also blew my mind. One in two people, one in two people in the UK will be diagnosed with cancer in their lifetime. Yeah, I mean. I mean, it's interesting because I cannot think of anyone in my close circle where cancer has not

impacted or touched us in some way. Yep. You know, and to your point is it feels like it all happens very quickly. It's felt so fast. Yeah. And it's like having the rug pulled from under you. Life's all just going a bit too good. I always used to say I feel like, when I met John,

I feel like the bubble's going to burst. And the bubble burst the day he got his cancer diagnosis. And he changed as a person when he had his operation, And when he had his oesophagus and his stomach removed, I felt like they took a piece of him away that he's never really got back because he had to relearn to eat and relearn a new lifestyle.

Listen, I know I had an eating disorder, but our love language was going out and that's just been taken away. We've been robbed of it because he can't do those things in an enjoyable way. So he's really been, you know, I feel like he's had a lot of his enjoyment stolen from him. And yet he's still deterred.

going to show up and like turn up. And he did say in the hospital to me, even yesterday, I wouldn't, I don't think I would have kept fighting if I'd not had like you coming to see me every day. Almost like I was doing him a favour. And I was like, of course I'm going to see you every day. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah.

And yeah, it's just, it's so sad. It's such a, it's so frustrating. There's so many emotions you go through. Yes. Yes. You know, my father-in-law passed away due to cancer. And the feeling that I had that came over me was how unfair I felt it was for my wife. Yeah.

And unfair it was for his wife, you know, and it's just, it was unfair to the point where I felt angry because it felt so unfair. Like we were being robbed. Yeah, I've had those feelings. Yeah. On his behalf as well, I think selfishly I've had that feeling of, oh, you know, it's affecting my life and my, you know, my quality of my life, but that's very fleeting. But also just how persistent it is, like it invades every day of our lives and it's almost, it wears you down after a while. Because it's not like you get a cold and you recover after a couple of weeks. This is years and years of him going through chemotherapy and, you know, how that impact.

you as a person and certainly there's been moments where he said I don't feel like I'm the man you married and therefore I'm letting you down because this isn't what you brought into. And his confidence levels have impacted. His speech has changed. So there's physical, you know, the physicality of him has changed. And that's just so frustrating for me on his behalf. I'm like, it's not fair. Like you don't deserve to go through all that.

Yeah. What is this moment in your life taught you about you? Probably that I can pretty much get through anything now, I think. Because some days I get home from the hospital, I think, flipping it. Like, this is quite full on. And I'm still turning up every day to work. I'm still running a business. You know, I've got three brands that I run at the minute.

so I'm still working and showing up for him as best I can but I've got a great support network around me so it's really made me understand the power of community in my own little network as well as the greater community of social media yes but they do say don't they be careful what you share because once you open it you can't take it back and certainly with John like now that people know about him they're waiting for an update and if they don't hear one they're like what's going on

because they're invested in this story of this man that's really poorly and it's up to me now to keep delivering the updates and that's quite a pressure. I was going to say you must feel that pressure. Even looking at the posts about John, you see the engagement levels are sky high. Yeah, they love him. Yeah.

And I'm like, I get it, he's great. But I feel a huge pressure to keep people up informed and also not to be disrespectful to other people that are going through cancer or scare people, no scaremongering. and it can be quite triggering. And I like positivity. It's a safe space, my socials.

Yes. So I have to protect the people that are following as well as I have to protect John. Absolutely, absolutely. And what about marriage? What does it talk to you about marriage? Because he feels pressure. Yeah, he does.

You must feel pressure. So now there's this significant pressure that's being placed on the relationship. Oh, massive pressure. I mean, our relationship isn't the same as what it was, but we've had an evolution of our relationship anyway. It's never really stayed the same, but we've kind of grown with each other,

so it's been all right, because we've kept on the same level, even if we've changed slightly. We've changed in the same ways. Yes. But yeah, it's, I think our marriage, it's taught me a lot about the power of being patient because he's so patient to me and always has been.

And I've always been the flighty, you know, I can get a bit frustrated. And then as soon as I vent, then I forget about it. I'm on to the next thing. Whereas he's just very calm. And I think he enjoys me venting. But recently he's starting to vent because he's like, I can't do this. This is annoying. And I'm having to be patient and be like, listen, it's all right.

When he gets to do this, yeah, it's fine. Yes. So it's taught me a lot about, yeah, the other side of the coin being more like John. Because that's what he needs right now. Yes. the roles have reversed. They've really reversed. Yeah.

Yeah. I am, you know, it's interesting. So I'd like your opinion on this. So there is a full study. This is around terminal illness. And the study shows that in marriages, when the woman has a terminal illness, that men leave at very high rates.

However, if you look at, and these are heteronormative relationships, when it's the man who has the terminal illness, the woman almost always stays. Yeah. Supports and nurtures her husband. Why do you believe that is? Why do you believe there's that disparity?

I feel like from my own personal perspective, that wouldn't happen. If I got super poorly, John would be like there, sorting it all out. But John's very emotional and very, We ask a lot of feminine traits in a way. So maybe it is just a kind of masculine need to provide as opposed to nurture. And it's almost like, well, I can't.

This person isn't going to, you know, do fulfill me in that need to provide. Yes. And therefore I need to go find somewhere else that can. Whereas as a woman, we don't really need that. That's not what gets our rocks off, is it? I feel like as women, we take a lot of solace from. being loved and, you know, feeling connection. Yes.

And actually when your husband's poorly, you feel a great deal of connection because they truly rely on you then. And John's never told me so much how much he loves me as what he has in the last month. Every time I see him, he reminds me of it. So he's giving me a lot of validation within our relationship right now. And that's how I would explain it. We often devalue how inspirational our partners can and should be, in our lives.

Yeah, like you've got to marry someone better than you. Otherwise, what's the point? You know, can I say? I completely agree. I feel like you have to feel like you won. Yeah. Like you won the lottery with your partner. Like, oh my gosh, how in the world did they?

Yeah, like, why does he want me? Yes. You know, thank God he's not twigged yet, but like imposter syndrome very massively. Yeah, yeah. I'm with you. I'm with you. And I think that if you're on the other

side of that you're in the wrong relationship. Absolutely. Yeah. The marriage started, you were still cabin crew. John is working. He was in pensions for HSBC. Oh, wow. Okay, pensions. All right. So he's, so he's in finance, right?

You then essentially get on the path to what has now become a major business, a major brand. Yeah. Right. I'm curious about how you and John work together on that because there's a similarity in my career, in my wife, in us working together in the early stages, and I was reliant on her.

Yeah. I was reliant on her skill set. I was reliant on her financially early on. So what was the dynamic between you and John early in your current career? I mean, it was as practical as he took my photographs that I would post on Instagram every day. And I would do all the back end that replying to messages, the DMs and whatnot. But he was taking my photos.

He was the guy that was saying, listen, we can't really afford it, but let's put it on a credit card because you need that bag to be relevant if you're going to be this fashiony girl. So we kind of over, we got into debt. I'm not going to pretend we didn't. And I think we got into about 50 grand worth of debt,

spending on things like trips, places we would pay to go so we could create content. Interesting. To kind of build. Because I was so adamant that this was going to be a career for me. I was convinced of it.

I just needed the opportunity and he helped me pay for that. But when you are 50 grand in debt, what do you see that makes you believe you should keep going down that path? Because every month that I kind of grew my community

and slowly these money moments came in you know, partnerships and whatnot, the brand partnerships would get better. There was never a month where it went backwards. And so it was a bit of you know, he likes certainty John does. He likes, he's the guy that's a bit more sensible than me. But he couldn't argue with the stats,

which were that every month we're earning more money. So the trajectory is, why is this going to stop anytime soon? Okay. And as much as we were in debt, we could afford to pay off our credit cards each month. So I was like, as long as we can afford to pay off our credit cards, let's just keep going. Interesting.

And what you were doing at that point was, I would imagine you're creating content, Yeah. You're posting that content online and different companies are reaching out to do collaborations, partnerships with you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

And then it really, I think lockdown kind of helped me massively. Because I had a nice community online before lockdown. I think I probably had about half a million followers. So a lot of people were, you know, in my circle. But I'd never spoken on camera or maybe I had one or twice. Not really showing my face. People didn't know I was from Manchester or much about my background because I quite liked it like that

because there's a vulnerability in sharing those things. But in lockdown, we couldn't leave our houses. And I was doing street style photography. That's what my content was. It was me stood in the street in an outfit. So I was like, what we're going to do here? And it was John that said, well, listen, every morning you get up and do your makeup and you sit chatting to me,

why don't you just film it? That was his idea. Yeah. He was like, instead of chatting to me, why don't you chat to them? And I was like, yeah, I suppose I could. And I just tried it out and it kind of took, it took off. And actually my business to this day is built on storytelling, on stories. So a lot of people on Instagram, it's all about the main grid, right?

Yes. And that's where all the brand partners come from. But I mean, you've got to pay me a lot of money to put something on main grid. Because I'll avoid it like the plague. Yes. Because for me, that's my shop window. Can I, so this is another thing that's blown in my mind. So it was John's idea for you to sit.

Do your makeup and tell the story. Yeah. Which, by the way, is I would say one of the most popular forms of content today in 2025. But it wasn't then. Yeah. So you hadn't, because I'm thinking, did you originate this? I don't think I did. But I saw an influx of content creators in the UK that emulated what I did very quickly after I did it because they saw the success I was having.

And I get it. Because it was so raw. There was no preparation other than ordering a load of. stuff online to use. So I would do, you know, halls. I'd just ordered bits of makeup, skincare, stuff I'd never tried before. Sure. And I think there's a naivety in those, let's unbox this together.

Let's try it together. I'd use it wrong and we'd giggle about it. I'd come on with no makeup and I didn't look that great. And I think there's a really nice thing to see somebody just not being so conscious of how they look. Yes. And not feeling so doled up. And I don't have a telephone voice when I come online.

I talk, I think I thought like I talked to talk to my. mates and it was like a face time with my mate it was just I never really think who's watching okay if i did that i'd be conscious of everything i said and i'd be overfilming and re-recording so everything's one take there's no over edits like it's just that's it that's what that's what I said but what about body image because it's something that you that you've struggled with your life so how conscious were you of how you were showing up with your body online it kind of was but also because I was doing a lot of makeup stuff, that's just your face, isn't it? So I wasn't really focused on my body as much.

Right at the beginning of me doing those tutorials, there was a lot of like face apps and stuff and I remember using an app called Snow. And you could slightly, I remember like I slightly made my jaw a bit more narrow and I quite liked how it looked. But then when I started getting offers for money

for skincare and makeup, they'd had in the briefs, it would be like you can't use any editing filters. And I think the government even made a decision on it as well. So I had to be like, right, I've got to scrap this. And I said to John, like, what am I going to do? And he was like, well, you don't look that much different.

And so I just one day went on without the act and no one commented. And I was like, no one's noticed. So it's only me that cared. So then I thought, yeah, sod it. Like, you know, if they don't care, I don't care. And actually, the more swipe-ups were on, the ones where I looked a bit rough. If I looked too perfect, it wasn't as engaging. Okay.

And so, you know, and we spoke about it before, I liked money. So I could see this was a financial, like, a decision for me. Absolutely. To be bare. At what point did you feel like you were profitable? Probably before, probably before lockdown. Before the beauty. Okay.

I think as soon as I started to create those fashion collections, they were really lucrative. And I realized that, oh, this is got, John was like, this is crazy money. like you're earning in a month while I earn in a year it's like this is daft but then certainly beauty there's so much more variety right

and it's there's a lot of there's a lot of money in beauty as well oh my gosh and a lot of advertising so it opened up lots of lovely doors yeah so around that time then the collections you were creating

so you were partnering with yeah partnered with a fashion brand with a fashion brand okay and we would create initially it was like one collection every three months. But they would, I think the first collection sold out in the first day. And then so the next one we did again and then they were really like fun to do as well.

I loved it. And they gave me so much. They indulged my like creativity. So they were like, if you can be as involved as you want or as non-involved. Wow. And I built this little team that I worked with there and it was brilliant. Yeah, it must have been a dream. Yeah, it was a dream experience and I'm so grateful to the people, you know, that were behind

that and let me do that. and I always knew I'm going to do this on my own at some point but that was like risk-free really because I wasn't putting any money into it and it was just a brilliant experience in terms of understanding my customer base what they wanted the back end was key yes because I could see what did well because I answered my DM so I was getting the feedback so I really used that as like market research it was the best market research ever oh my gosh and you were making money I'm making me.

Can you disclose what a good month was for you? I mean, I think at the high, I think one month I got paid just from that brand, like 80 grand, which is a lot of money, isn't it? That is a lot of money, Lorna. It's a lot. That wasn't the standard. That was a one-off. A one-off, but still.

So you continually built, built, built, built, built. Currently, it's three brands that you're managing. So it's L.A. space. L.A. space. Ghost by Lady A. and then 98 beauty which hasn't yet launched and we've called it 98 we've called it beauty because that was the only like dot com available but fundamentally 98 is going to it's going to be an umbrella of products I love

okay that aren't clothes interesting interesting all right so busy busy busy yeah very busy when you think about your community which is truly I think been the linchpin around your success, it's been your community. What do you believe is most misunderstood or even least known about you? What I do, I come on every day, right, and chat. So I feel like if there was a fakeness in anything I was doing, they would have seen that by now because I don't think it would have, I couldn't have kept up the facade. Right. So the fundamentals of who I am, people do definitely know. but the general day to day of my life because they only get that small snippet

they probably don't see a lot of the worries that I have and just generally things that panic me because they're not things I talk about whether it be obviously John they know but certainly work stuff when you think about your career what do you believe is the biggest misconception

about it that me and John started with loads of cash because we didn't really we just got into loads of debt we pretended we basically I'm definitely that girl

that fake it till you make it and I think most people think you know John's a rich guy and that's why they've got all that nice stuff but fundamentally John and I together are successful and that's why we've got all that nice stuff it's not more

alright I'm the front facing person but he's my business partner and co-founder of all my brands and equal decision-making and very involved in every element. It seems like you had to sell a lifestyle in order to then live the lifestyle. Yeah, I did. And that is exactly what I did. Yeah.

I reversed engineered my own living, if you like. Yes. I just recently started following you. And I noticed that so many of the people that I admire and respect that I'm also following are following you and engaging your content. That's almost a litmus test on how I can tell how well I'm going to like someone is based on those that I respect

whether or not, not only do they follow you, but I see that they engage in your content. So they look up to you. And to me, I always look at that as an endorsement of how similar the values I'll have with someone. Gotcha. Yeah, based on, because I think that, in essence, that's what we do, is that we end up becoming close and highly admire

and highly respect people who share our values. Because our values are like our rulebook to life. Yeah, and you do have to edit whose content you consume. Because if you find yourself in a whole of following people that are quite negative or maybe have strange values, you start to make it okay. you start to make it passable and plausible. Yes. And before you know it,

you've ended up with completely different morals and views. Yes, yes, absolutely. And that's why how we were grounded, how we were taught early on, that's why that's so important. Are you proud of yourself? Yeah, I am proud, but there's always more you can do, right?

I think that once I need John to get through this blip, that I feel a great way on me with this. I can't drop the ball on this one. So I need to really do him proud now. All right. So can I hit you with the last question that everybody gets? Cool, bro. All right.

It's my favorite question. Yeah. And that is you've had some incredible experiences and conversations in your life. Yeah. When you think about the most memorable, who was it with? And what did you learn? Probably the most memorable conversation was that that conversation after the conversation after the priori with John

because I was willing at that point to walk away from a marriage that provided me with everything to because I was so, I felt so passionate that this wasn't what was right for me and that takes a lot of guts I think

to kind of be willing to risk everything that at that point when I was at my lowest I was still fighting for myself I was still advocating for myself and going no that is not right for me and you do have to to be an advocate for yourself sometimes, even when you're at your lowest. You can't always rely on other people. And that gut of going, no, this is not right for me and I'm really

sorry but this is not going to happen. And it is a hard conversation to have because everyone is around John saying, no, she needs this. Like she's not well, she's a bit delulu. She really needs to be institutionalised and the ability for me to have that one chat with him and him go, right, I'm going to do what you want to do because I love you enough that my marriage is more important than anything else. And it kind of set the foundations for our entire trajectory of our relationship. And probably the reason why it's lasted. So yeah, that was a big deal, I think, that moment.

Yeah, that one hit me because I think there are many people who would have not made the decision that he made. No, I think most people wouldn't. Yeah. But that's John. Yeah, there he goes. you know he he he the commonality is you both walk to the unbeaten path yeah we do you right you know and what's beautiful is you do it together we do yeah and you found your your person you know i think that is something that i am so happy for you about and why i wish john all the the best in the

world it's been wonderful it's been like the best therapy feel like a weight lifted you know for me it has been insightful. Good. In what way? You know, I see you differently than who I saw on Instagram. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, I think, you know,

what's so hard about social media is it's so one-dimensional. So one-dimensional. You know, and you don't get the richness of the individual, the humbleness, you know, the insightfulness. I see you as someone who is you're stoic I am a little bit but at the same time you're frail

yeah at the minute I'm very frail in that's in the sense of everything going on around yeah but you know you see how you live between those two places this is life what we're I think in life we're constantly navigating between you know certainty and uncertainty strength and weakness but on social we only show up as one strong, we're certain. Yeah, it's so true. But in actuality, you know, we're living between both.

Yeah, we really are. Yeah, and that's what I saw today. Yeah, thank you for that. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. When John is super, super better, you and John have an invite to set in you know. To the photo.

Yes. Well, he'll love that. Oh, my gosh. I will be like, where's the wine? Where's the bar? No, no, we don't have wine. We have pints. Yeah, or no.

I knew you're going to say that. that. I'll bring my own. I'll bring my own bottle of rosa. Yeah, of course. Of course you will. That was wild. What did you think? Oh my gosh. I love her. From one lens you can say she's on top of the world. She's managing three brands. She lives in this incredible house, right? But yet there's so much pain and struggle and turmoil that's happening in her life. She is human. she even to this day doesn't classify herself as anything. And to me, more and more, this is a lesson that I'm taking, is I think that we, in society, we've gotten ourselves into trouble

by trying to fit everyone into a nice little box. And that is incredibly dangerous, I believe. And Lorna, like many of our guests, are proving that you can live outside of the box. it's much healthier to do so. Lorna is going through a very difficult time with John being in the hospital currently, as we record, and you can see that she's trying to hold it together.

She's in essence, she's trying to be what John has been throughout her life. She's trying to be the rock for him. She's being forced to evolve into another version of herself. And what I'm finding more, more and more with the conversations that I'm having with the guess is that that's what life does. It forces you to have to evolve to a better version of yourself.

And right when you get to that version, you think you're at your best self, life throws something else at you quickly. And then you're forced to evolve again. And it's interesting because Lorna is child-free. But there's a massive lesson for those who have children from this conversation. And that is that your decisions, whether or not you realize it, carry consequence for your children. Jill is super nerd. I mean, Jill has the DSM-5, right? The diagnostic, statistical, manual on mental disorders.

And she just reads it for fun. That's my wife. And eating disorders are right in there, you know, and looking at how prevalent they are among people who have suffered trauma early in their life, you can't discount that our adolescents are incredibly important. Secondly is if you don't yet have a child and you're considering whether or not parenting is not for everyone. It's just not. And we shouldn't let society shame us, especially women, into this idea that you must have a child. And if you don't, you're insufficient or there's you're you're the lower value and you can see how lorna was able

to fight through that stigma uh and um and i and i think that's a lesson that we can all take are you ready that's probably too much let me see how about uh everyone everyone everyone Oh, God. Sheffield. Chef. Scott, how do you say this? Is it Sheffield? Sheffield.

Sheffield. At least this isn't live, right? Well, no, but that's about to change, isn't it? So we are going to do, we need to talk live for the first time. The magic is in the conversation, so we'll have a very special guest. You know what's probably most cool about this is this will be the first time that the we need to talk community will come together in. person. You know, I'm curious to see, what does everyone look like? What do they smell like? Sheffield, July 5th, at the Crucible Theater. So to get tickets, very simple, it's crossedwires.

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