We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - “I Was Crying In The Shower!” | We're Talking Strictly Come Dancing

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

Three Strictly legends pull back the glittery curtain on the UK’s biggest dance show. Oti Mabuse opens up about breaking down in the shower during the show’s most intense moments, and the pressure she felt to represent Black women in the spotlight. Karen Hauer reflects on dancing with her ex Kevin Clifton after their breakup - and gives an honest take on the “Strictly Curse” - why emotional connections form, and how it changes relationships forever. Ashley Roberts shares how appearing on Strictly became a tribute to her late father, and why dance remains deeply personal for her. These are the stories behind the sparkle - raw, real, and rarely told. We're Talking Strictly! (00:00) Intro(00:38) Oti breaks down the ‘Strictly Curse’(05:31) Karen’s take on the ‘Strictly Curse’(15:30) What is something the audience don’t know about Strictly?(17:52) Love Better Tour Ad(18:49) How intense is being on the show?(21:40) Being on the show whilst going through the break-up of her marriage(24:47) How was it for Ashley returning to dance on Strictly?(26:34) Ashley’s favourite dance on the show Get Your Tickets to the Love Better Tour: https://bit.ly/lovebetter-YT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Good sleep is everything. That's why Ali's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-D-N-E for both kiddos and grown-ups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. Erasing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie's sleep solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's O-L-L-L-Y.com. Welcome to We're Talking, where we're exploring the world of ballroom. It's that time of year again where strictly takes over.

our screens and in honor of all the shimmies and the one two steps we've brought you the stories of three strictly mainstays karen hower otie maboussa and ashley roberts if you enjoy these conversations and want to keep in the loop about new episodes make sure to follow the show without further ado we're talking strictly everyone talks about the strictly curse yeah what is the strictly curse so usually it happens when I think people come together and they spend a lot of time together and they just end up having a relationship. But over the years it has definitely redefined what that looks like. And I think people don't even bring it up anymore in a negative connotation because we have couples like Gemma and Gorka who now are married and they have two kids and they have a happy

life together. We have Aliya Shanjinnat, who are a couple. He left the show and now he's back together and they portray what a family couple is on Strictly. Diane and Joe. It's when two strangers come together in the room and have a relationship. But it's over the years, in my opinion, it has definitely redefined itself. Yeah, I think the examples of what you did that is not really the curse. The curse is when you end up another relationship. Yeah. You're you start a new one which is not very positive. I think it's a little bit more goes to the roots of that problem, which is if you're not stable enough in your own relationship, obviously, like I said before,

like for us, it happens through dancing, it happens faster, but eventually it happens. So it's not going to be the strictly course, it's going to be going to the library course. Yes. Or going to the shop course, which will take probably a few months, not a few dances, you know what I mean. You know what I mean? Because this is the highway. The dancing is the highway of the relationship. Yes, because...

And the other one is the normal 20 miles per hour zones. It takes a bit longer. But the curse is there. If you want it, you get it. Yeah. I love that. Go to the grocery store curse. It's like, you're right.

But you're right. If you spend enough long time with someone, it could possibly happen. Yeah. I mean, in psychology, you know, we have what's called the mere exposure effect, the self-expansion, the law of propinquency. all of these essentially state that the longer that you're with someone, the more familiar you become with that person. The more familiar you become, the safer you become, the more you're willing to emotionally

open up and trust. And if you have an unstable relationship somewhere else, and all of a sudden now you can trust someone, of course, it moves over. So this is, I agree with you, this happens in all aspects of our life. And this is the reason why it's so important to focus on what's happening at home. Yeah. Yes, and that's why love is on the first place. That's why love is on the first place of pride.

Because that's closer to you. Career is a bit farther away from you. You asked us, why are we together? I think the question is, the answer is we're so similar in the way we think, the way we approach situations and how driven we are. And that is one thing that I loved about Maris is that he's not just the Latin dancer. You know, he's an entrepreneur. We have property companies.

He's an investor. So he's not just, this is the only thing I'm going to do. He just opens his two brain like that. And I'm the same. Maris was there for me a lot when I had the tough moments. I think I had a celeb who I just couldn't get to love the job as much as I wanted. You know, as much as I desired. I think the end goal of the two of us was not the same.

And there was one moment where he found me in our apartment and I was in the shower and I was crying with my clothes still on. I just walked into the shower and then sat down water on crying on the floor. Because I was like, if I don't get this right, I think in my head it felt I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough in my job. all of this pressure that I have, I'm representing black women, I'm representing African women. I'm like, all of that, I stand for so much.

If I can't get this job done, I'm not good enough. I don't deserve to be here. That was like, for me, the lowest moment. And in that moment, he came in and he got in the shower, fully close, and he picked me up, and he just hugged me and held me. And like he said, it's just a job. It's just a job. You have family.

You have friends. You have me and you have food. Strictly began. Was it 2004? Probably. Yeah. So from the beginning of Strictly through to this day, I have tracked 18 people.

18 who have changed their relationship as a result, you can tie it back to their time on Strictly. Okay. You can even technically put your X in that category. Okay. What is your take on the Strictly curse? It is a very close proximity. You're, you know, in detail, being very gentle with someone else.

you know and understanding them listening to them i'm i want to know how you learn you know a lot of people get to get you know be in that moment with someone that's actually going oh you know me yes you have i have to know you because i need you to be your true self i need you to open your mind so we can i need to learn how to learn how you know you how you learn so I can teach you better. I need to learn everything that you do. Any, any, any, any, any, any, any things that you like that you don't like, things that you feel comfortable with, you don't feel comfortable with.

So you're literally learning about this person inside up. Yes. Which is an emotional connection. And it's the deepest level of emotional connection. So. And then, you know, you confuse things that. times, I think. I think sometimes when you're moving sexy around someone, you know, it's movement. If I'm moving my hips from right to left, it's pendulum action. I'm not actually trying to

be sexy with you. This is just the rhythm of my body that I'm creating. So whether you fall in love with the movement, seeing someone move so sexy. And obviously, you know, if there's problems at home if there's you know you feel down but when I come to you and I make you feel happy it's all in a bubble this is all make believe I am teaching you at the end of the day yes this is for show this is acting this is movement this is a performance so whether two people take that in a completely different way. And there's attractions. I mean, I've not experienced that. I take my job. I close everything up. Whether you're really good looking, I don't see your physique. I see your brain. How I'm going to teach you how to dance. And then also, when you start learning about someone,

you start getting to know someone, you're like, absolutely not. I would never. I would never. You know what? Because when you see someone like, oh, they're so good looking, you know, I'm like, no, this is different. Yeah. But it happens. Because, and you know what? It happens everywhere. And that's fine. But obviously, because it's such a massive show, it's become so ingrained in everyone's brain.

Well, you're dancing with that one. Well, be careful. But you know what? And it's part of being human. It's part of being, part of life, you know, the attraction. And, but as long as it doesn't hurt anybody, and that's what's hard, you know, because you don't hear about this when it happens in, you know,

in somebody else's company. Exactly. But when it happens on our show. I think you've just hit the trifecta of why it does happen. And that is, as you talked about, the emotional connection that's formed, which typically doesn't fully form in relationships, right? There's always a lower level of emotional connection,

but in order to dance with someone, you need to have that deep, deep emotional connection. So that's one. Secondly is the physicality that you're talking about, just the physical proximity, the whole law of proximity and propinquity, that physicality being up close and experiencing new things together.

I think drives people together. But then the third is the fact that you're under this pressure bubble together. So in essence, your partner is your only safe space or could be one of your few safe spaces where you can go to. And I think that trifecta, oh my goodness, it's something else. Yeah. Yeah. It's something else.

But you, I mean, you are the longest serving. professional on strictly, right? History, right? This year will be 14 years, correct? So what keeps you coming back? Every time it feels like a new year, like the first year. Wow, does it? 100%. Because, again, there's so many curveballs that can be thrown at you, but you're prepared for the, you know what you're, you're getting on a roller coaster. You know what this rollercoaster is going to go. I'm strapped in. I'm going, I'm going in. But I just love seeing people transform. You know, it's, it's, and it could be that much. But that for me is massive.

Yes. Getting someone that absolutely had no idea. You know, there are people that come in with dance experience. You still have to take them at a completely different level, you know. But it's the people that started nothing that you're like, all right, that's the challenge. That's why I keep coming back. And then when we go out there, it's the unexpected. Like, how thrilling is that? And I have no idea what you're about to do.

And 10 million people are watching us. And you might go wrong, but I'm going to... I'm right here for you. You know how powerful that is? Wow, so that gives you a thrill. That is thrilling when you go, I have no idea what you're about to do with you because I can see it in your eyes, you have no idea what comes next. Oh well.

But it's thrilling. But you know what? it's when they do something wrong and then you pull them out. It's like pulling them out of the water and then you carry on. And then they go back into it. Okay, I love when they make a mistake. And I love that in a bad way, but it's almost like, because nothing bad happens.

The good thing of it is how you picked yourself back up. And you continued and you smiled. Yes. And you enjoyed it. And it was thrilling. Once you get a 10, you ain't going to. and go anywhere else other than to get a tent, then people are going to get bored of you.

Yes. But you have to maintain perfection. I love imperfection. Yeah. I can see it. I'm excited about it. Yeah, you'd be doing this if it's not on. Oh, maybe.

I love it. I love it. And that's what I keep coming back. How competitive is it truly? You have to be. You have to have that hunger. You know, I dance with my previous partner, Paul Merson,

and he used to call me Pep. Pep, Perthiola. Oh, yeah, yeah. I know what. I know why. But because I love to train and I love to coach and I am competitive in getting you on that dance floor ready. That's where my competition lies.

Not against all the other couples because, again, it's an uneven field. Not everyone. Not everybody starts in the same. No, there's a couple of people that count dance and there's a couple of people that can. Yes. So how do you compare the two?

you know so I can only focus on the person that I have in front of me and what we can do together is there a way and have there ever been people who play dirty because you know you could skirt the rules if you want to you know that people that wouldn't say dirty but I would say that they complain on it I'm like oh stop complaining you know it is what it is it's a show it's a show you don't talk back to the judges

they're doing their job right they're doing their job job. Listen, don't get me wrong. There's times that I'm like, what did you just say that to me? Don't keep it in, Karen. Don't let the New York go out. Just smile. Just smile. But it's a show. It's entertainment. Don't take anything personally. Don't take it personal. Because then that's when it starts hurting. And that's when you become even more competitive and not in a good way. And then that's when the everything, the lights dim, everything because I'm a bit like, because you start taking things personal. Yeah, yeah.

But come on, you don't ever allow the New York to come out a little bit and give him a little taste? Oh, no. Why not? Oh, because he's not good. How do you think I got divorced three times? Oh, she wild. No.

You're going to say, no, no, no, no, no, no, poppy, no. No, so no. And that Spanish, too. You can give it to him multiple languages. That's even worse When I start talking to you in Spanish Oh, forget about it Okay

All right, fair All right So what about Because you know I think what everyone loves Is the inside Like what do you What do you think is something

That most people don't know About the show About strictly That they would find interesting What obviously is not shown Is when you're in training And the The breakdowns

emotional breakdowns. And we all have them. And that's fine. It's natural. Because of the pressure. And because there is not a lot of time. And how we pick up the pieces for these guys, these celebs and even for us as professionals. Because nobody knows what's happening outside.

You know, going to. a divorce while you're trying to push someone and taking a couple of minutes to go into the bathroom to cry, to get it over with, to let it out, and then coming back in and freshen up and continue to teach. We have our moments that we go, I don't know if I can do this, and then you continue. And would people find that, probably be like, they'll probably be like, stop. But it is, it is, that is the toughest. Nobody knows anything about me. And that's fine.

And that's fine, you know. But they think they know, oh, she's the lady with the dogs that dances. Yes. And gets married a lot and has different hairstyles, you know. It's interesting. That's what you would, that's what you feel like the perception is of you. Yeah. So there's a balance.

And it's hard. It's hard for it for, for the producers and for everything to. to balance the show out. Yes. But that's the beauty of it and why it's so successful because they've created such a beautiful balance

of struggle, of happiness, of, oh, I don't know if I'm going to get through. Oh, but you are getting through. Oh, my God, you made the final. Oh, my God, you know, you're leaving the show now. But it's, and it's part of our life. Yes, yes. And they've created that beautiful roller coaster

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Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit Priceline.com. Actual prices may vary. the time offer. The average viewership peaked in 2017 at 11.4 million viewers per episode. It's one of these where, to this day, basically half the country watches this thing, you know, so an enormous like juggernaut, right, of an entity that you then come on. I go in and it's like, dear, and headlines, nobody tells you, nobody gives you a how to book, how to manage this.

This is different. You know, I'd done some TV work before, but that was just on me. This is dealing with other people teaching, you know, doing camera work, interviews, you know, press. I was scared. I was like, I don't know how I'm going to do this. And I remember the first time I went on,

Nikki Burns. And they were like, no lift. And here I go. Karen does lift. And I got a two from Craig. And I was like, okay, welcome to the show, Karen. Welcome to the show. But I wouldn't have had it any other way.

There must have been a shift once he then, because eventually he becomes a dancer, a professional, should I say, professional on Strictly. So how does the relationship eventually end? I felt that he distanced himself from me, but I was probably doing the same because I felt if you didn't want me, I'll retreat, I'll give you your space.

It was one of those that were both not talking about it. So I'm like, do you want a divorce? Do you want to split up? I don't know what I want to do. What do you want to do? Do you know what you want? I don't know what I want. Okay, so do we, are we broken up?

So it took a while, actually. It took about a year behind the scenes. In front of the scenes, everything was normal. So you were pretending. Yeah. And then, funny enough, I met someone. And, you know, we weren't together, but we were together in the public eye. Yeah, wow.

Makes it even more complicated. So when you meet someone, and it wasn't someone that I dated or something, it just happened to be someone that I just saw a couple of times, and I got snapped up. And then all of a sudden I was just walking with this person, and then all of a sudden, you know, I'm portrayed as someone that I have cheated on him. And then obviously he saw the pictures and was like, so there was a big misunderstanding in all of that

because I was actually, I was literally waiting to be loved. How did you two continue to work together given the fact that you divorced? The respect we had for each other in workplace. We respected one another. You know, I've never said any, we never said any bad word about one another. You know, I think that's because we hold each other to such a high regard. You know, there is, there will always be love there.

Okay. So we still danced together on the show and we were still working around each other. We would still applaud each other, support each other. We never lost that. And that was what was really sad. That we couldn't transfer that onto our, relationship. Yeah.

I find that incredible because I think there's so many people who are in a work environment they'll break up with their partner. You know,

they'll have a romantic relationship. They'll break up and they can no longer work at all. They can't even look in that person's direction but here you two

can still dance together. That is, that's incredible. Yeah. It was tough at times as well when you had to do there's one number that we did and we was right before

we broke up. And it was for Remembrance Day. And he was playing a soldier. And I was taking the jacket off at the table and dancing with it. And then at the end, I mean, throughout the dance, he comes back and dances with me and goes in and out of my life until I, again, finished dancing with the jacket and placing it back on the table. and it was literally I had lost him.

And it was the end. And I remember when we finished that, we looked at each other. And this was, you know, we record this in front of an audience as well. So they only give you like one or two takes. So you have to get it right, that sentiment. And the sentiment, it wasn't hard to get into that story because I was experiencing it, because I was losing him. You know, it's so profound to think what is going on in your mind while you're performing.

Yeah. You know, what you're either allowing or blocking out. I use a lot of my experiences to pull out the emotion, you know, and a lot of the experiences are from my love life, from my life, from everything. And that's what makes me open up, it cracks me up. You know, it makes me more vulnerable for my audience. I find it healing. in a way because it stops hurting as much. Yes.

It stops. The wound starts creating a scar and then it becomes skin and it softens. It softens. Yeah, fair enough. Now that I understand how integral dance is to your life, how you had stopped dancing and then to go into Strickley where you have to dance, basically you probably practiced every day. for it or

when we got into it, yeah the mere mortals would have to practice every day you probably practice two times Oh no, no no but how did that begin to then shape your thoughts around dance again? Like did you fall back in love

with it? Yeah, so okay the year before I was on it I got sort of whispers that like we might have Ash we might want you to be a part of the show this season And I was like, oh, I don't know, I don't know. And my dad was like, you have to. Like, I will fly to London to see you dance.

Like, because my, that was, my dad loved watching me dance. And he had this little whistle he would do every time before I hit stage. So I knew where he was in the audience. And he was like, you got to do that. I want to see you dance. I was like, I don't know. Anyways, it didn't end up working out that year. And cut to the next year.

Unfortunately, you know, he was no. He wasn't here any longer. He wasn't here anymore. So when I got the call to do it, it was wrapped up in so many things because it was my dad wanting me to dance again and wanting to see me do that. And then also for myself to dance again. And then I was learning new styles that I had never learned before. And also it was the first season ever in Strictly history.

where they brought in couples' choice. So couples' choice is where you're allowed them to do a style outside of Latin and ballroom. And when I grew up, what I loved the most was contemporary because it was very self-expressive. And so I got to choreograph a dance in contemporary style dedicated to my dad, which also happened to fall on remembrance. Wow. I mean, so... Look at that. The, like, the timing of everything was just, it was magical.

Yes. And people that were watching, like, I wasn't just dancing for myself. I was dancing. And that's what's so beautiful about that art is, like, it can connect you and use a piece of music to bring you in and have that human experience together through this beautiful piece of music and a beautiful piece of art. And it happened at that time.

And I was like... Look at all that. Yeah. Nothing just happens. It was wild. It was, yeah, it was, it felt very special to me. So I really just blocked out, like, you know, the outside noise and it was just like, I'm going to, I'm going to use this as a way to get back into an art form that I really love.

And also, you know, do this for my dad. Look at that. Yeah. Look at that. Yeah. And then look at how well you did. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I was getting the votes.

on that one. But I got, you say it because I got to the end. Yeah. I mean, but I was, I was in the bottom several times. But you got to the end. Yeah. Got to the end. I was just happy being there.

I was, I was like, thank you. It was hard. Though you say the dances up, it was, it is hard work. And I knew that. I'm like, okay. And I still, you know, I train and I, I mean, I like to do my workouts and stuff. I was like, I feel like I'll be all right with this. Ooh, we.

Yeah. But see, you're being, I think, too hard on yourself because as I look here at my notes, I see that you received none other than a perfect score of 40 after dancing to time of my life. The lift. I got that lift. A perfect score? So come on. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's... The scores are nice, but the experience and the timing of it all was just what was most important to me. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So did you fall back in love with dance? My mom, I made a promise to my mom that I would continue it.

I don't do it, you know, every single day, but I still continue to get together with some friends and do little bits and stuff here and there just to keep the body moving and keep it, keep it going. So, I'm going, so... Okay. Yeah. Okay. Speaking as someone who many believe can't shimmy his way out of a paper bag, but trust me, I can. The dedication and talent it takes to be a professional dancer astounds me. All three of my guests showed resilience in the face of personal crises, media scrutiny,

and the pressure that comes with live TV. Incredible people with incredible stories. And if you'd like to watch more stories, simply search through our rich catalog of previous episodes. Don't forget to follow the show and give us a rating. I'll see you next week. Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up. Spring's calling. Ross, work your magic.