We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - I Was Painted As The Villain! | We're Talking TV Talent Shows

Episode Date: August 28, 2025

We’re Talking TV TALENT SHOWS: Two of the most iconic contestants - Cher Lloyd and Calum Scott - open up about their unforgettable auditions and what really happened after the cameras stopped rolling. ◽️ Cher takes us back to The X Factor stage at just 16 - and the backlash that nearly broke her ◽️ Calum reveals what it was like to go viral overnight after Britain’s Got Talent - and how he rebuilt himself afterwards ◽️ Both share the real truth about fame, pressure and surviving reality TV (00:00) Intro (00:33) Cher's X-Factor Audition (03:52) How Does Cher Feel She Was Portrayed on X-Factor Versus What She Was Actually Like? (06:35) What Kind of Mental Health Support Was Cher Getting on the X-Factor? (07:51) What Was Cher's Relationship with the Judges Like? (11:04) What Was Living with the Other Artists Like? (15:17) Love Better Tour Ad (16:23) Calum's Experience of His Britain's Got Talent Audition (27:16) Calum Reflects on the Impact BGT Had on His Career Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod Follow Cher Here: Instagram: https://g2ul0.app.link/RajyCUByoQb  Follow Callum Here: Instagram - https://g2ul0.app.link/JAW7hxKlKSb   Sponsored by: Get Your Tickets to the Love Better Tour: https://bit.ly/lovebetter-YT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water.

The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. This week, we're talking TV talent shows. Today, you'll hear from Cher Lloyd, who was just 16, when her X Factor audition went viral.

And Callum Scott, whose Britain's Got Talent Performance transformed his life overnight. They share the highs, the lows, and what it's really like behind the cameras of reality TV. So let's get into it. Today, we're talking TV talent shows. Talk to me about what could be one of the most epic auditions ever in X-Four. factor history. How did it, did it happen? Do you know what? I used to sing that Kerry Hilsen song over and over again in my bedroom on that same karaoke machine. I loved the song. Like, I just, I loved it. It didn't even cross my mind that people would be so surprised that a girl

like me would sing a song like that. So, yeah, I went to that audition. My mom took me on the train. I remember the train was expensive, you know, but she was the last of her money to buy the train ticket. We went to audition and it just felt like every step of it was like, yeah, you're through, you're through, you're through, you're through, you're through. And it just, it ran away. It ran away. And it was just shocking to see that, oh, wow, yeah, I'm finally. doing it. This is the moment. This is the moment everyone's going to know my name. So you believed this was your moment. I knew. I knew from the second I got there to that audition, I've got this.

I've got it. I can do it. That song is like a full confidence, 100% I'm here. That's what that song is. Yes. And as soon as I started singing that song, I had to be. become that. That's what you do. You become the song. So I think it was, yeah, it was surprising to see this little thing walk out on the stage. A girl like me sing that song. Sing that song. Now the song, the song selection, can I say superb? Thank you. Superb song selection. Thank you. Soldier boy, turn my swag on. One of my favorites, can I say? And when I was doing the research, right, because I wasn't in the UK at the time. So, so I was. So I was. I didn't see X Factor that season. But what I understand is it was the most watched season. We're talking about season seven.

The most watched season in X Factor history. Over 14 million people in average were watching every episode. I know, I know. But it was the best, the absolute best. The talent on that series of the X Factor, unmatched, unmatched, one direction. Really? Yeah.

I mean, you have, because so with the talent, you're living with each other, right? Yes. So you lived with One Direction. Yeah, Rebecca Ferguson. Yes. Mary Byrne, who I love. What, 2010? 2010.

2010. Yeah. To the point where whenever I say your name, so what I did is like the last couple of days I've been saying, hey, you know, Sher Lloyd, Sher Lloyd's coming. Have you heard, unanimous? Everyone remembers you. And they remember that moment. that you stepped on stage and you sang that song. Yeah.

You know, I've done reality TV for so many years now. And I think I've seen you say this where we have to understand that it is a singing competition, but it's also a reality television show. Yeah, of course. At the same time. So let's talk about the reality TV bit of it. Yeah. How do you feel as if you were portrayed versus who you actually were? because I did have such confidence and was such a presence at that time,

I think that was a gateway into kind of giving me the character of the villain. I guess I was the villain that year, which tends to happen in reality TV. And I'm not saying that I was perfect because I definitely was. wasn't. I think I struggled a lot on the show with how to deal with this instant fame and people's comments towards me. The negative attention, I didn't know how to deal with it. But at the same time, I look back and I think, I didn't deserve half of the stuff that happened to me. I definitely didn't. And I'd feel the same if that was my daughter. If my daughter had to go through what I went through? Yes. I'd pull her from that. You would? I'd pull her a million percent, a million percent.

It's all these tiny little micro things that just makes a person lose their mind. I lost my mind on that show. A million percent, I lost it and I didn't feel like I had anyone to turn to. No one to talk to properly because they were on the show. show? Like, could I trust anyone? Because I'd try to talk to other people before and then the next day it's in the newspaper. So where do you go? There were just so many different sides to it that I think at that age, I wasn't ready. I definitely wasn't ready. But then again, would I be ready mentally for something like that now? I'm not sure. Or is anyone? No. Because that's the other thing is I wasn't the only one that went through that. There were other people on that show

that experienced the negative side of it. And of course, it's show business. I know that you take the good with the bad, but sometimes things got really dark for me. And I was only 16 years old. You're 16 years old. What about mental health support? I mean, I know a lot has changed in the industry in terms of reality TV over the years. Yeah. But 2010, what type of mental health support were you getting? There was like a team of people like that to support. I was given antidepressants while on the show. Really?

I was 16. Yeah, and I was prescribed antidepressants while on the show. I thought that was the norm. I guess this is showbiz. So you just take them? I, yeah, I felt like I had to because I, was it going to get better? Was it going to feel better? Was it going to stall?

I didn't know. Goodness. You know, so you have the issues that you're dealing with in terms of the press, but also from what I understand in read, there were challenges with the judges. Right, yes. As well. Yeah. I think

because I'd been given this sort of character on the TV show it made it easy for people to jump on the bandwagon because that happens right you know once people start talking negatively about a person it enables other people to chime in and that often happened with me

and of course it makes for great television so yeah I butted heads with judges on the show. More so when I left the show, especially as I'm older now and I'm wiser, I don't let people speak to me that way anymore. I don't stand for it.

So on the show, though, because it's interesting when you think about a show like that, they're judges, but at the same time, I think, at least I feel like they're presented as mentors. Yeah, that's right. So they're presented as, okay, I'm going to support you

and I'm going to carry you through this journey that you're on. Did you feel like they were mentors or something else? It's really tricky. It's a hard one because, you know, it's reality TV. There's always some type of fakery when it comes to reality TV. Facts. Dinner. It happens.

Yeah. At the same time, what I will say is when I was on the show, Cheryl was nothing but good to me. And I had this feeling like she knew. She knew and she'd always ask me if I was okay. Really? But I knew that she meant it. I knew that when she said it, she was actually saying, are you okay?

Yes. Like, do you need help? Yes. So I felt supported by her. But everything else around, I just felt like it was just for the show. So me personally, being in the mental state that I was in, I didn't feel like I was taken care of. If anything, people just put fuel on the fire. As I looked at it, right, it's like the relationship with Simon seems to be, you know, good and solid and, you know, you listen, right?

With Cheryl, that was interesting. I didn't realize that in terms of this tight connection, it feels like. There's that tight connection from what you're saying. With Louis... We just butted heads. We really did. He didn't get me. And that's fine, because not everyone is going to like me.

I know I'm cool with that. We all deal with that, don't we? Not everyone is going to connect with you. That's fine. But he just took a disliking to me. But it was strong. And looking back on it, that's kind of weird. So do you think it was an act?

disliking of you or a disliking of the villain character that they're presenting? Perhaps, but also people like to jump on the bandwagon because, you know, they want to be involved in that narrative. And I think he's known for doing that on several occasions, jumping on the bandwagon. Fair. So what was it like living with some of those artists? I mean, obviously, Liam Payne's been all over the news. saw that you had a very touching post on Instagram. What was it like living with him and especially One Direction who went on to do, you know, phenomenal, phenomenal things?

Yeah. I just want to say like one direction, having my journey with them, I think really helped me. Honestly, I've never met such caring. lovely guys and young, they were young, same as me. But they were all such good people. No ego, decent people who loved to sing as much as I did. And that's one of the biggest things that I'd love to share about Liam. He sung from his heart and it was a gift.

Liam had a gift and I just think, I'll always remember that about him there was no one quite like him wow wow yeah you know when I think back to you just saying you know I really didn't have anyone to talk to it sounds like but you had them

like that was pretty much all you had yeah you know to lean on and we did have loads of discussion when it came to things that were happening in the moment we were very close-knit. It was like this little family. And we had such fun. Like, oh, we'd get into the back of Addison Lee's in taxis.

And we'd be like chased by paparazzi. And we all thought it was the funniest thing in the world. We would just be laughing. And then, you know, I remember lots of time, Zane would put on a song on his phone. And we'd be singing along to the song. And like, it was almost like we had this like duo going on. And it, yeah, just so many good memories cooking together, listening to music, playing games.

Like a kid should be having fun. Yes. Those moments. Those are the good memories. Those are the good ones. So that was almost, they became your family. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, like a little X-Factor family. Yes. Yeah, it was lovely. Yeah, I could see. I can see you light up, you know, talking about them. It just, it makes me remember all the good points about being on the show. It wasn't all dark. It really wasn't.

But getting to be with people my age as well. And I hadn't ever left my small town. Like, and then all of a sudden I'm in London. I've met all of these new interest in cool people. And I'm getting to know them. And literally having them. the best time of my life. Some of the best memories of when we weren't filming and we were just hanging out.

What about the competitive aspect? Because you're also competing with them. But yet it seems like their family. It wasn't there. Okay. It wasn't there, you know. Like, okay, we'd have the show, the live show. And then it gets the results part.

And quite honestly, we were all. upset that one of us was going to go it was more like that feeling not like I really want to get through we had none of that energy none of that energy it was like I hope so and so is going to be okay

if they get voted out because you just form this friendship and yeah the competitive thing it wasn't really a thing it wasn't a thing that's interesting not with us No. Yeah.

Yeah, look at that. Look at that. Wishing you could be there live for the big game, soaking up the atmosphere in the crowd, but too often, life gets busy, or the price hold you back. Price Line is here to help you make it happen. With millions of deals on flights, hotels, and rental cars,

you can go see the game live. Don't just dream about the trip. Book it with Price Line. Download the price. Priceline app or visit priceline.com. Actual prices may vary. Limited time offer. Good sleep is everything.

That's why Ali's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-D-Nine for both kiddos and grown-ups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. Erasing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie's sleep solutions for the whole family

at ollie.com. That's O-L-L-L-Y.com. Let me ask you something. When was the last time you really thought about how you love. Not who, but how. Most of us don't. We're moving fast, doing life, hoping love just shows up and sticks. But that's not how real connection works. So I've created something different. It's called love better and I'm taking it on tour. A live experience for anyone who wants to build deeper, more meaningful connection. We'll unpack the lessons from the

couples you've seen me coach. I'll share stories I've never told on camera and you'll walk away with tools you could use right away. This isn't a show you just sit back and watch. It's a night of honesty, insight, music, and connection designed to make you walk away with something real. Come solo, bring a partner, bring your crew, everyone's welcome. But seats are limited and they will go. Tickets are on sale right now at livenation.co.com.com. I can't wait to see you there. So I'm curious, going into Britain's Got Talent, what was your wildest dream?

Even at that point, my cap on what I felt was achievable was so low. I remember on the way to the audition in Manchester, I was in the car with my sister and with a couple of friends of ours, and I said to her, I think the best outcome we can have is some positive criticism from the judges. And we go home and we work on it. Your dream was some positive criticism. Bro, I honestly, I kid you not.

I genuinely was sat there in the car saying, you know, we'll get some, if we take some positive criticism, you know, we might get a little bit of negative criticism, but we'll take the positive criticism, we'll go home, we'll work on it. I obviously just didn't think I was ready. It was a weird day. It was a weird day. Because for the first time, I think it had become real. Cameras were around.

We'd had like these VT sort of, uh, tapings where we sort of talked as a family and they're like oh we're just we're going to be a little bit in the distance you talk to your to your mum about your audition how nervous you are and stuff and it was very it was it felt scripted in the sense of you know stand there and talk to your mum whilst we film but that was the only part of it that was scripted everything was real you know the way we talked about it our hugs that we gave each other all very very real and it was when we was backstage and it was just me and jade where she started getting really like really is upset and nervous

and I think that was the first time I ever saw in a slightly vulnerable position Why was she nurse? She was just, I think she, I think the way of the situation had finally dawned on her. I mean, we were both kind of quite happy go looking, it was exciting

and a couple of friends there that was there and, you know, a couple of family members and we were all buzzing. You know, we're all in the lobby. There's tons of other people and, you know, Sprint's got talent and, you know, all in lights. And I guess the excitement took away from what was about to happen. And then I think when we were backstage and mum had to be in the audience and it was just me and her.

And the researchers were coming over going, there's the wrestlers on before us. Wow. Sprint's got talent. So it's literally a plethora of different talent. So there were these wrestlers that were going on. And then they were said, then we'll come to you too. That was the most viewed show in the UK that year. I think it was over 10 million people watching.

Yeah. And in in in in in, in, in the, in the most viewed audition, which is just. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what now? Yeah. Think about that. Most viewed audition, right?

You have the most viewed series. How many people are in the, in the arena that you're before? Thousands, right? Yeah. At least a couple of thousands. Yeah. So. Terrifying.

This is the. largest audience you've ever performed in front of life? By, by far. And I think, I think because we were in a theatre and because it was a huge audience and you've got the four judges who we've grown up watching, you know, Simon Cowell and David Williams and, you know, it was, I think that, and we were sat next to Anteck, you know, who we love. So for us, it was very surreal.

And I think I, for one, totally forgot about the cameras. And I'm so glad that I did. Because it was, for me, it was that moment in that, in that theatre. Okay. That mattered.

It wasn't, what's the big percussion is this? Who's going to be watching at home? It was very much there and then. So, I mean, it was the most, it's hard to sort of recall how I felt

because it was so, like, there's so much pressure. And we took a second. I had a bit of a breather. And then I walked. out, I'm shirking. Yes. You know, and Alicia says, oh, you're, your, your

James brother. And I'm like, yeah, and she's like, you're okay? And I'm like, yeah. And then I look to her. And I looked to her the whole way. I mean, they didn't even pick up how many times I looked to. I mean, I did. I didn't. I wasn't here in the UK during that time. So, you know, I saw this, your, your audition, which, yes, is at almost 400 million views.

this in particular right and what just screamed at me and I didn't understand until this conversation was why you continued to look back yeah what was going on in in your mind I think she was my safe place at that moment she was the only thing I could see that resembled anything that I knew none of it was familiar the only thing that was familiar was my sister in the wings so she was my only anchor back to my reality did you have ever been a sense of how the audience and the judges were reacting to you or was your sole focus? Yeah, it was more on hair. I mean, I think I was a little bit sort of starstruck. You know, I've got these, in essence, celebrities in front of me. You know, I was very

aware that I was talking to celebrities and, you know, I'm from Hull. You know, our local celebrities were, you know, the bee lady, which was this lady wore a bee costume who collected for charity, blessed, God rest of us all. She was our celebrity, you know, our local news reporter was our celebrity. So, you know, even then, that would have been cool to talk to them in real life. But you're talking to Simon Cowell, you know, Alicia Dixon, you're talking to these celebrities. And so it was very sort of surreal, but I was so massively aware the full front of my mind was my sister. She's there.

She's going to be there. She was crying her eyes out, bless her, but she's there for me. So I felt strong enough to give what I needed to give. And most funny, Paul, is, she goes, right, whenever you're ready. And I say, thank you. And I death stir, Simon Cowell. It's like a very small, like half a second. I look to him and if looks could kill, I'm telling you now,

like, you've just made my sister, she's crying her eyes out, man. How dare you do that to her? And then you see that. And you'll watch it back and you'll be like, holy shit. That's the stare. That's the stare. Do you think that gave you, did that give you any bit of passion, bravado? Yeah, a bit of gusto.

Yes. I wasn't sort of like, I'm going to prove you wrong. It wasn't, it didn't give me strength. It just gave me pure emotion. And all those emotions, that kind of chaos was, singing and performing was the perfect kind of vehicle for me to be able to get out how I was feeling. and I don't think I would ever be able to perform it the way I did on that audition again in the way that I did

you know there was a moment where the piano comes in and it's sort of a little little interlude and I show my handshaking I think again I look back again and see my sister and I smile at her and I think that was

a very human moment in what was a very surreal out of this world experience for me I'm just a human being here I'm just, I'm not a robot, I'm not a, you know, I'm not a music artist. I'm just a human being, you know. So my question is, is who were you showing that your hand to? Who in particular?

Like, was it yourself? Yeah, I guess I was trying to show everybody in that moment, like, just how, and I was, I was, I was actually shaking. That's why I was gripping, when you watch it back, I was gripping the microphone stand so hard because it was, that was my security blanket. And when I look at my performances now, that, that, that, security blanket I had throughout for the first parts of my career, microphone stand gripping it tight, hiding behind it.

Yes. Wasn't until probably the last tour that I did, my Bridges tour, where I was able to free myself from that. Interesting. Yeah, which is weird looking back on it now that that was, that stayed with me for such a long time. But yeah, it's not as if I was feeling like I was performing to any one person. I was just performing.

You're just performing? Yeah. Well, I mean, you perform one hell of a song. Thank you. It was one of those words. This shows you my ignorance on Britain's got talent. This is true ignorance. So, you know, I'm watching your audition, right?

And I think, oh, my God. I was like, his voice, he sounds like an angel. Oh, thank you. Sounds like an angel. Thank you. And I'm watching it with my boys, my two little boys. And then Simon goes over. He hits the golden buzzer.

And I was like, what's the golden buzzer me? Is he in? Is he just lost? I was like, why is he getting no? golden buzzer. Where's all this confetti coming down? Why's everybody so happy? What's the golden buzzer about? Right? But I've now since understood. It's the kind of the straight through to the finals vibe. Yeah. Yeah. It was, do you know what was so weird about that is that, obviously you don't necessarily see it on the show, but he had like a bowl of mince. You know,

like mint imperials or whatever. Okay. Okay. And when he stood up, I thought, oh, he's going to get some mint. So I was completely unaware. And as soon as he pressed that buzzer, you can see the colour just drained from myself. Because I'm just like, I thought the guy was just grabbing some mince. Like, what's going on? The fact that Simon had pressed it was, you know, the most coveted prize I could have think of getting because he was a, you know, an industry label owner for many years, a psycho.

So, you know, I'd seen everything he'd done and with X Factor and, you know, little mix from one direction and James Arthur, all those acts I'd seen go through. with Simon and said I knew that if I got his approval, I must be doing something. But think about this. That song was how, was that a minute, maybe you were on stage?

It felt like an hour. So it was about a minute, right? Yeah. So a minute prior, you're giving him a death stare. And I asked him about that. I'm like, did you see me when I did that? And he was like, yeah, yeah, I did.

But then a minute later, you know, he's, he, he, he changed your life. He, um, yeah, it was almost as if the golden buzzer was him going, I publicly vouched for this guy. Yes. It felt like, probably for the first time, somebody giving me, somebody, somebody backing me, somebody going, this is, this is, this is, I believe in this person, outside of my family, obviously.

It was the first time I'd ever had that in music. So, uh, it was, it was a complete, like, life-changer and you know obviously after the the confetti had settled you know he he gave me his feedback and he was like you know the diversion was sensational and he was like you're not just a singer you're an artist and you know listening to the judges talked the way they did you know Alicia Dixon and and and David Williams and they're all saying like you're already there I can't see how this would get any better and I'm just like what what is going on like couldn't believe it What is the first thing that you say to your sister?

Sorry, was the first thing I said to her. Because I was just so aware that my life had been changed and feeling like I'm just pulling that rug from under her and taking the limelight and taking the spotlight off of her. So sorry was the first thing I said. She was like, don't be daft. And we had a hurricane and then, you know, we had to let the dust settle a bit.

I mean, my mum, bless her. I don't know how she coped. in the audience watching her daughter you know not get through and get four nose and then you know watching me and getting a golden buzzer and god knows how she must have felt she she must have just been so like pulled apart in terms of how

she could be because she wants to be there for her daughter but wants to celebrate with their son it's like yeah the emotional balance is um yeah is is unreal and now i'm going to go back and watch yeah yeah and you'll see it within a different light now Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, it is 10 years. Yeah.

Almost to the week of that audition. Yeah, yeah. So a decade ago. Yeah. Right. When you reflect back now, not just the audition, but the entire experience of Britain's Got Talent. Yeah.

What did it mean to you in your career? When I look back now, I mean, it was like the magic beans, you know, Jack and the Beanstalk kind of situation. It was the moment that changed everything for me. I think had I not had that audition, I'd have probably gone back to Hall, you know, room four, toured that around.

I'm sure it would have been a success as well. I'm sure we would have done a great job. But I'm not sure I'd be where I'm at. Not loving your AT&T or T Mobile Bill. Yeah, we've been hearing that a lot. Good news. Bring your AT&T or T Mobile Bill to Verizon and we'll give you a better deal.

So get away from that unfortunate phone bill and get to Verizon. Run, ride, canoe, whatever it takes. We'll be here. Bring your AT&T or T mobile bill to a Verizon store today, and we'll give you a better deal on the best network. A better deal. No surprises.

That's Verizon. Best network based on root metrics, best overall mobile network performance U.S. second half, 2025. All rights reserved. It must provide a recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person regimen me the deal. Additional terms, conditions, and restrictions apply. How many discounts does USAA auto insurance offer?

Too many to say here. Multi-vehicle discount. Safe driver discount. New vehicle discount. Storage discount. How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit USAA. com

slash auto discounts restrictions apply