We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - I'm Not Always The Best Muslim: Why My Marriage Failed & What Really Went Down at the BAFTAs! Big Zuu EXCLUSIVE!

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

In this unfiltered episode of We Need To Talk, rapper and BAFTA-winning TV chef Big Zuu opens up like never before. Zuu reflects on his childhood, sharing the sacrifices his mother made to give him a better life. For the first time, he reveals the truth about his past relationships and whether he’s truly moved on from his ex. He talks about the explosive highs and crushing lows of his career - from his rapid rise to grime MC to the face of Big Zuu’s Big Eats, and the burnout that followed after winning two BAFTAs. Paul and Zuu dive deep into the challenges of representation in the TV industry, the musical influences that shaped him, and how food became a powerful vehicle for connection. This is Big Zuu like you’ve never seen before. Follow me here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk  https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod  Follow Big Zuu here: Instagram https://g2ul0.app.link/aba8xYKf4Tb  TikTok https://g2ul0.app.link/J0qIDQNf4Tb  (00:00) Intro(01:54) Big Zuu's Real Name(04:42) Big Zuu's Musical Influences Growing Up(05:46) Where Did Zuu Feel Most Safe as a Child?(08:05) When Zuu First Visited Sierra Leone as a Child(11:54) How Zuu Became an MC(21:50) A Message for Zuu from AJ Tracey(24:55) Zuu's Transition from MC to TV Presenter(29:01) Zuu's Marriage(42:20) Zuu's Experience of the BAFTA Awards Ceremony(49:21) The State of Diversity in the UK TV Industry(54:48) Zuu Addresses the Perception of British Muslims Today(59:30) Diversity Behind the Camera in UK TV(1:05:01) Tinder Ad(1:06:14) The History of Sierra Leone and Zuu's Family Connection(1:09:25) Zuu's Mum's Story of Emigration(1:11:23) Zuu's Perception of His Own Masculinity(1:14:44) Zuu's Advice on How to Create Connections with Others(1:18:02) Zuu's Mental Health Struggles(1:22:31) Zuu's Current Love Life(1:26:04) Zuu's Other Business Ventures(1:29:38) Paul Uses AI To Roast Big Zuu Tracks(1:32:06) Most Memorable Conversation(1:35:28) Paul Surprises Zuu with His Favourite Cuisine(1:39:24) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Tinder: https://tinder.com/en-GB  ❤️ Get The Love Journal now: https://bit.ly/lovejournal-mp Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Where's the camera I did? I was a depressed child. Like, I don't have a lot. I don't have a big family. I used to always make noise and always try and be the class clown. Because I was masking how I felt deep down. I felt lost. I don't feel like I've ever expressed this much.

So what gave you the confidence to do music? I started freestyling for fun. And then one day, one of my friends, he said, you know what? You're good. And I've had to make a choice. I'm like, do I stay in uni or do I leave and focus on music? My mom's like, the devil has taken over our family

and then the rest is history. In 2022, the public was probably thinking Zoo's at the top of the world. But it sounds like that was one of the lowest moments for you. I'm such a positive person. It can be overbearing. I create this like false reality. I worked really hard, bro.

And I almost worked myself out. Health was bad and I was very drained. And you got two BAFTAs right now. I remember when I went the second one, I was like, this is a historic moment for me. I left music to follow another passion of mine, and here I am. I first everyone's looking at me like, who's this guy? Now everyone's looking me like, you're the guy that's the water.

I have a last surprise for you. Are you ready for this? Oh, my days. Just a quick one, before we continue, we are so close. I mean, this close to hitting 200,000 subscribers. So first, if you have subscribed, thank you. And if you have not, why haven't you? No, please, please, please, if you could subscribe.

And here's the reason why? because every subscription helps us to grow the channel, which allows us to continue bringing you more brilliant conversations. It's free. It takes only two seconds, and you can do it right here. It's an honor to have you here, man. And I'm going to tell you why. There's a couple reasons.

But the big reason is because I think this is going to be the first time that I get a chance to talk about topics that I'm passionate about. Right? Can we talk about your name? Yeah, Zahar. Zahar. So your name is Zahar. All right, so your name is Zahar.

Yeah. Hassan. Yes. All right. But everybody calls you Big Zoo. Yeah. Everyone goes to Big Zoo or Big Zoo. All right.

So where does that come from? So when I was in school, when I went to primary school, they can never pronounce my name, right? Mm-hmm. It'll call me Zah, Zahir, Zahir, Zah, how do we say your name? Zah. Zah. Just call me Zee. That's what I used to do.

But how do you feel about that? Because I'm going to tell you how I feel. I don't like you. I don't like it. I think this is honestly, man, this is, I think this is name assimilation. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Because I feel like your name is your legacy. Yeah, it is. This is your grandparents, your great grandparents, right? This is all that's been given to you, all that's been bestowed. And because this one teacher can't pronounce it, we now have to change our name. so that you could feel comfortable pronouncing that. That's the only reason why I always feel a little ugh

when I hear about us. And I say us is because I feel like it is so many people of color that are coming to the West and have to assimilate into the space, opposed to the space wrapping around us. Yeah, I mean, definitely. My mom is the only person that calls me Zahar. No one calls me Zahar.

Really? Yeah, everyone calls me Zahir. Yeah, everyone calls me zoo. It's just easy, isn't it? But it's about what you're talking about. It's true. I've taken away my real name from the world. But at the same time, you were a child, though.

Yeah. That's, I mean, so I'm not putting the responsibility on you. I'm putting on them. Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, you were a child. But it's mad how that's transcended into my adult life because now I'm very sacred about who calls me Zahe. Because I'm so used to only being called as a hair by my mom,

whether it's a partner. Like normally, if I'm a child, I'm dating someone, they don't call me Zuh, they'll call me Zahe. Especially when I'm in trouble, they'll be like, Zahe. Like, I know someone's serious. Is that how you know you're in love? Oh, probably.

Probably if I've let them call me Zaheer. You know what's funny is that if I meet a girl for the first time, they'll be like, nine times out of 10, they'll tell me, what's your real name? Like, your name's on Zoo? I'm like, yeah, my name's Zahair. And they're like, okay, I'm gonna call you Zahair. I'm like, we'll see how long that last.

Like, we'll see if we get close, and you become a partner, I'm with it. But if not, I find it a bit weird. All right, fair. Which is hilarious. Fair. All right.

Let's talk about music, but also the influences that you had growing up. Yeah. Because I think we've got the same. Yeah. We've got the same influences. Uh-huh. The same in music. I'm a hip-hop head.

Okay. Right? And so I want to know, because from what I, well, I don't want to put the words in your map. You tell me, who were your musical influences when you were coming up? So it's a mixed shot. My first ever album my mom bought me was, she bought me too, she bought me

Get Rich or Die Trying and she bought me Marshall Mather's LP, which is mad to buy a little bit. I know. I was like a child. She bought me those two albums. Those were the first CDs I've ever had, 50 cent of Eminem. So I love hip-hop. But obviously, my mom used to always play videos like Michael Jackson. She used to love her R&B,

whether it's Whitney. You know, American music was massive in England, like, especially for like ethnic people. That was what we loved. But then also, you had this other side of like, you know, like garage and grime, which I kind of got into when I was like 10 years old. From what I've seen and why I was so excited about this is I think that you do a lot of self-reflection. Yeah, definitely.

You know, so if you could go back eight, seven, you think about where did you feel the most safe? Probably in my room. In my room on my own. Like, I spent a lot of time on my own growing up. like, I was a very like, just because I didn't have a big family. So I didn't have like, it wasn't like, oh, I had all my cousins over or I'd go to chew with my nan. Like, my mom started letting me go to school on my own by the time of me in year five,

which means I was like nine. So that's when I started being able to like roam around my local area, make friends in the area. That's when I started like being able to like meet people and kind of flourish as a young man. But before that, like going to Salem was a big eye opener. Because up until that point, I would say I was a depressed child because I just felt like my life's really tough. Like, I don't have a lot and I don't have a big family.

And I don't also understand why I'm in this position? Like, I was like, why don't I have all the freshest clothes and why don't I have the newest toys and the newest? Like, I was very aware that I wasn't in the best place. I also, but then. Can we even spend a second in that? Because it's interesting, because how did you feel? at that point

where you were frustrated Yeah, I was just very upset I was, I think, and how I asked my upsetness was by being really loud and bubbly. I was the loudest, most talkative, crazy child. I used to always make noise and always try and be the class clown

because I think I was masking how I felt deep down. I felt lost deep down. I felt like, why is my family not normal? Why don't I know my dad? Why don't I have any brothers and sisters? Why don't I have a nun? Why is it just me and my mum all the time?

Like, I was very upset. I remember I used to like, like, before, I used to look at my window all the time, just look at my window out of complete boredom and be like, I want to be outside. I want to do stuff. Where's my friends? I want to do stuff?

But then the point I was making is that when I went to Ceylon for the first time, I completely changed. Because then I was like, whoa, wait, I'm actually all right. As mad as that sounds. I went to say a little, I stayed at my granddad's house. And I was like, and he didn't live in the best ever.

My granddad was very poor. Stayed at my granddad's house and I'm like, whoa. Like, this is real poverty. What did you see? Just, so my granddad had multiple kids, but then they had a new wife, so we had younger kids. And I remember we've gone to the house and there's like eight people living in this two-bedroom house. like I slept on the bed with him, my mum and my granny, all four of us on one bed. I'm like, this is a bit, why is there four of us on this bed?

Like, to get me like, showering. It's not a shower. It's just a little hose. No hot water. There's no electricity. The electricity comes on for three hours a day. If you really need electricity, you have to turn on a generator, which means you have to get fuel. We'd all eat off one plate.

when I first got there, I'm like, I'm not eating off that one plate with these people. Would you mean what we're sharing and we're using our hands? Where's the spoon? So my granddad used to call me Tony Blair because he was like,

Prime Minister, come. Because you know, I'm this young mixed race boy. My granddad was also the same mix as me. So my granddad was half Lebanese, half Ceylonian. And I remember the older I got, that memory would always take with me because the older I wish that I ate that plate of food with them

because obviously after time, I was there for six weeks, I went for a summer holiday, I eventually started eating with them and I'm like, oh my God, this is the best experience in the world. Eating off this one plate together with my family, it was actually what I was longing for.

I had a Game Boy, Game Boy SP, and I'm sitting in my granddad's car and I was playing it in the thing, I had the AC on because the house was so hot. I begged him. Let me sit in your car with the AC. He's like, okay, you can.

For 20 minutes, you can. I'm sitting in the car in the AC, playing my Game Boy. And all the local kids are watching me in this car. Because obviously, over there, I'm a white boy. Right. I'm a wet man. That's what they call you, Wet Man. So they're all sitting around the car.

They're like, oh, this is a smiley play game. They're watching me play this SP. As they're in the heat. Yeah, in the outside. In the outside. Well, I'm in the protective car from the AC. That, man, that's a, that's a powerful. visual though.

Yeah. I can see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm all around the car. Yeah. Yeah. And it stuck with me. It really stuck in me.

It really changed me. So then when you come back, how are you changed? Just way more humble as a little man, way more understanding to my mom. Me, my mom used to argue so much when I was young because I was upset, you know? We used to pick up about everything. I was naughty in school. I was really bad. I was really bright.

So, it's always getting trouble. My mom was always getting called to the school. You know, I was always late for school. I was, I wasn't a bad student in terms of like, I was like, like, vicious or violent. I was just, I just had a lot of bad tendencies because of upbringing, because things were straight for, nothing was straight for me. So I was never a straight student.

But then when I came back, I finally started calming down and being a bit more mindful and not, resenting my life, being really happy about, because when I came back, you know, you have six weeks of Ceylon, I come back, I'm like, running water. Your own plate. That's my own plate. That's food.

But it seems like that was the pathway to where you are today. So like when I grew up, so I was born in, in Queens. Yeah. But then we moved to Long Island. Okay. Once I hit Long. It was quite different. Oh, quite different.

Quite different, right? And then in Long Island, that was right around then, And that was the native tongue. So we had like the Buster Rhimes, the Queen Latif. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The new tribe called Quest. Which is one of my favorite groups of all time. Facts.

Yeah, they're amazing. Like they're one of the best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Period. Yeah. But so that whole area, I was shaped by that. Yeah. Because that was called backpack rap.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. A conscious rap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially track called Quest, like, they was on some deep stuff. Yeah. But you know, it's funny. When you look at it, you're like, was it that deep?

Yeah, I get it. I get what you mean. where you're based is where you're, so I think for us in London is a bit different. So I'm from West and in West, we have certain M-season crews, but Grime was big in East. Okay.

So because I didn't grow up in East London, I didn't grow up around that culture. I grew up in West where the culture was carnival and Jamaica music and like a big, like growing up in West, we had a big infinity to Jamaican community. So when I was, young, I used to say Waguan and my brother and brethren and Dunnow.

Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Even though I'm a little African boy. Right. My mom's definitely African. But then when they got to like 2006, by the time I'm like 10-11, that's when Grime was really like blowing up. So in school, all we would listen to is Grime.

But then Grime had different, you had Grime emcees from West. You had Graham emcees from East. Yeah, Graham's from North and South. So we started, we naturally gravitated towards the West London emcees. I fell in love of it. I started studying it like always listened to it like it became my

grind became my life I'd be online downloading all these viruses to my computer because I'm trying to download radio rips or that's when YouTube first started

2005, 2006 that's when YouTube just started so all the grime stuff was going on YouTube as well so I'd be on YouTube all day I'd be watching channel you all day I was like I just I was fell in love of it

bro I fell in love with almost the cult child when I was old enough to go to like a party and a function, I was there. Like, there's a video of me in a crowd

listening to J&E, who's one of my favorite gram artists of all time. I'm in the crowd. I'm at the front pointing at him saying all the lyrics. And therefore I'll go from that

to making songs of themselves with him. He's friend. It's wild. It's why how life works. It's crazy. You know what I mean? So what gave you the confidence

to move from student of Grime to talent within Grime? Well, John, I was bored when I was 15, 16, left school, summer, I'm bored. We got nothing to do. We're waiting to join college. We used to just sit in the estate, in the block, and we'd just be, like, doing nothing.

And then one of my friends was like, should we put on an instrumental and just like freestyle? We used to feel, because you know, like, your young kids, we're smoking weed, we have nothing to do. We're thinking, you know what's cool with a freestyle? I don't know who said it. So we used to put on old school rap beats. I'd go on YouTube and write rap instrumental. And it'd be like Master Ace. Eric Bia and Raquel.

Yeah. Jay Dilla. Yeah, yeah. That kind of shit. Like Dr. Dre instrumental. Alchemist. Like really classic rap beats. My first ever song I ever wrote a song to you was to Master Ace Beautiful.

Wow. But I'm a kid. What do I know about Master Is Beautiful? I don't know about that. I'm not from America. Like, I have no idea. about that error and that world, but I listened to it. I felt a connection to it.

It felt right. Maybe I was just high. But like, it felt like, yeah, I want to freestyle to this. And then I started right. I started freestyling for fun, like just rapping in the block, rhyming hat with bat and cat and this and just talking rubbish. And then one day, one of my friends, he said, you know what? You're all right, you know, you're good.

And I was like, shut up, man. No, I'm just, this is just fun. This is our thing we do in the block. he said to me, cool, we're going to go to your house, I'm going to put on a beat, you're going to write, I'm going to write, and if you're better than me, you carry on writing. But if we're the same and it's whatever, forget it.

I said, okay, we've gone to the house, he's put on, we've write, rap, instrumental, first beat, Master Ace Beautiful. Master Ace Beautiful, but he's playing, I got my pad, I got my pen, I'm getting in there. He raps, it was so bad. I've looked at him, that stop.

And then I've rapped, and he's looking at me, he's like, he got it. So right. And the first lyric I wrote, I said, welcome to my life, and yes, I am the host. Not too many good times, so I guess I can't boast.

But when they ask me what do I love most, it got with my mom because she was there at the lows. So instantly, not realizing, I'm expressing. I'm talking about my, my first of a lyric is about my mom. And how you feel about her.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. And I didn't realize that it was a way to express. I was just thought it sounded cool and he was like, he needed to carry on. So then I carried on. I carried on rapping.

Then I meet my friend, Mr. AJ Tracy. He starts taking me to the local youth clubs. We start recording. We make a group called MTP. And then the rest is history. But, all right, even, I know the rest is history. Yeah. Right.

But even at that zone, you said that you were waiting on college, though, waiting on university. Yeah, yeah. So your thought was, professionally was probably still, I'm going down, I'm going to uni. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to be what? I want to be a youth worker. Basically, our first ever chance was we used to always freestyle around the block and we used to make songs, upload them on YouTube, no one cared, put it on SoundCloud, no one cared.

And then one day we went to radio. We got an opportunity to go rap on live on radio, which is like, it doesn't get more grimy than that. That is grime. That was in 2014. Okay. That's when I was, that was when I was 19. So that was our first step.

And then by 2015, 2016, we're like established now. We're like, we've got, we're doing shows. People know who we are. Our songs are getting viewed. And I've had to make a choice. I'm like, do I stay in union become a youth worker? or do I leave and focus on music and I left? So it could not have been like that

because I can imagine your mother. There's no way. She's from the motherland. All of the things that she had to do to fight for you to be who you've become at uni. What does she say when you shut down and tell? She thought it was game over. She's like the devil was taking over.

family, she got my dad to call me. And these times me and my dad, we're like, we're cool, but, like, he's not part of my life. So I'm like, why are you making him call me? My mom tried everything. She didn't, she didn't really get it, especially because crime is fast. She didn't really understand what half of the stuff I was saying. Because to her, it just sounds like, blah, blah, blah, bubub. But then I started getting money.

I started getting paid. Start giving her a little here and there. Start tripping in. she's like, oh, all right. This is a thing. You know, look, as soon as she thought I started making money and it was real, she became my biggest fan.

Oh, really? So when I listened to all my stuff, started following, everything I do, she fell in love of the game. She was like, you're making my son. What was it that you saw within yourself or what was happening outside of getting a couple shows

that made you think, I'm going to double down on this? Because I think this is a question that a lot of creators have today is I'm in a certain career path, but yet I am creating and I want to go this way, but I'm not sure if I should go all in. Oh man, you can never reach to what you want to reach in your creative world if you don't put 100% into it.

That's what I think. But obviously it's easier to say that when you're 20 years old and you don't have big responsibility and I was living at my mom's house. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So I know sometimes people are older, they can't make that. They can't make that decision maybe because they're like, what am I going to do?

I'm just going to stop earning to potentially earn through creativity. But I just said, I'm putting 100% into my music. I took my last student loan. I bought a moped. And I was a delivery driver. I used to do like Uber Eats. Okay. Did you?

Yeah. I was doing Uber Eats at a time. I was signing, do my Uber Eats. And then when I'd sign off, I'd go like radio. I'd go studio. and then when I'd leave, put the head of helmet back on, straight back into it.

Wow. You mentioned your cousin, AJ. Yeah, Mr. AJ Tracy. All right, so you said that, were you performing with him at that time? Because he, his career was bubbling. Yeah, he was, he was hot. By the time I was dropping at a uni,

AJ was one of the biggest artists, like young underground artists in the country. So the difference with me and AJ is, we all went in uni at the same time, all me and my friends were in uni. He went to a different uni. He dropped out straight away. He did a couple months.

He said, nope, can't do this. I'm going to become, I'm going to make it. So I also had that in the back of my mind. I'm like, if AJ can do it, I can do it. Right. So he's always been a big inspiration for me. So you say he's a big inspiration for you. Yeah.

So I want you to listen to this. Okay, go on. All right, I have a little surprise for you. Okay. All right, just listen, listen. I see you, man. Oh, man. I say this a lot.

I think it's not how that I always, I always draw for whatever I'm talking about you. But I think the fact that you thought, you know what, I'm doing well with music, but maybe I can try my hand of the telly. Meets us to time I hand the telly. And you had the courage and the bravery to go and try a new career poem, man. And it obviously works out for you, bro. Well done.

We're all proud of you. You deserve it. Margie. Look at that. He's inspired by you. Yeah, it's mad how things went because AJ was, AJ is a little bit older than me you know, we found out we was related

by family. One of his aunties was married to one of my uncles. So then instantly we're like, yeah, we're cousins. So we always said we're cousins. So he's always been like a big cousin to me. He called himself uncle. I'm like, I'm not your nephew, both. I'm not your nephew. Do not call me. Don't say your aunt. You're not big aunts. You're not snoop dog.

So AJ was always the guy that he did it. Like he showed. told me and my friends, you can make it. And he made it in music. He killed it toward the world. Some of the most successful, like, UK grind rhythms, rap, whatever it is, he's killed it. How else, other than just the fact that he's succeeding,

how else did he, did AJ inspire you? He was never a yes man. Never ever yes man. And sometimes when you get into the entertainment or music game, you know, it's very egotistical. Sometimes you build a team around you and you have a lot of yes men around you. I have a lot of people that agree with everything you say because they want to be part of the journey.

Whereas Tracy, he never was like, he was like, he was always, if I tell him I'm going left, he'd be like, now, you should go right. If I'm telling him I'm going to right, it should be like, what about going left? So when I told him, I'm going to go make this big decision and start a TV show and become a presenter, he was very like, think about it.

Yeah, it's double-edged sword. And he was right. Because going into TV and my cooking and becoming a TV chef, I did lose my core. grind fan base. Not all of them, but there were a couple people who were like, come on, I can't listen to you anymore.

Because you're out here. Because you're cooking. You're out here telling me how much tomatoes to put in the stew. What do you mean? You're going to tell me about the roads and there's treats and life and rap about your life anymore?

And I tried to do it all at one time. I tried to, I was doing TV. I was rapping. I was on radio. I was trying to do it all at once. But then I realized, you know what? No, I need to just focus on one thing. And I chose TV.

And it's interesting because, That's the advice he gave you. Yeah. Two is to stay focused. Choose one thing. Yeah. From the outside looking in, it looks like you two are the perfect example of iron sharpens iron. Yeah.

You know, I could see that. Like, you two elevate each other. 100% make each other better in all things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So then that transition from music to TV presenter is mad because that's the transition that many people try to make. Yeah, definitely. And never get there.

That transition, though, at what point do you begin integrating cooking and food into just you in your brand? So I've always been a big lad. I always been a fat boy. I love food. Food is me. Like, I am a food man. What's crazy is that when we used to write lyrics, we used to always go to AJ's house. So AJ's mom is a youth worker.

She inspired me to become a youth worker. She, one time, we was chilling at the estate, bored, freestyling. AJ goes, guys, I can't do this anymore. We're like, why? He's like, I'm going to go to my house. I'm going to sit in my house. I can't be here in this estate anymore. I'm bored.

He's like, this is shit. We're like, where are we going to go, bro? He's like, why do you guys just come to my house? We said, come to your house and do what? He's like, come, we could do the exact same thing we're doing here to do at my house. And for me, that was crazy because I'm like, is your mom going to let us smoke weed in your house. And he's like, yes.

She will let that happen. For us, it was foreign. So AJ lets us go to his house. Now we're all in his house, chilling. It becomes like a youth club. All the man in my day. And then what I used to do was we would always go and buy food together. We'd all buy dinner together.

We'd always put our money together, maybe buy pizza, maybe buy some chicken, maybe go to a chicken shop, get a burger or whatever. One day I said, why don't you guys just give me the money? And I'll cook. All of you give me like three poundies. each, there's five of us, that's 15 pounds. I went and bought flour, butter, milk, cheese, pasta, macaroni cheese, and then I bought wings. The cheapest cut of any meat you can buy is like a chicken wing. So I bought wings, enough wings to feed five hungry lads. It always cost me like 15 to 18

pound. And AJ's mum used to always be like, do we want cook? So the lads will be upstairs, writing bars, chilling, smoking, and I'd be downstairs. I used to have so much fun. Because it gave me like this feeling of like, like, like belonging. Like I felt like I was doing something for my lads. Then I did a YouTube show, a YouTube cooking show with a radio station that I was a presenter at.

Okay. So I was presenting at a radio station and for extra content, I think this was 2008. 2018, they said, let's do this cooking show, where you cook for a couple of the emcees that you rap with. And I cooked them Christmas dinner. I made them a roast chicken instead of turkey, made a macaroni cheese, a cabbage, like a mad cabbage coastlaw. And then I did a make crazy gravy.

Uploaded that video onto the internet. It was just promo. And then a TV company, a production company called 2-4, who are a really big production company, They saw it. They invited me and my manager in for a meeting. They said, look, we love what you do. We're going to picture you an idea. They pitched an idea called Big Zoo's Easy Riders,

which was about me cooking riders for comedians while they're on tour. Okay. We kind of flipped it. Easy Riders, quite a weird name. Let's call it Big Eats. They call it Big Zoo's Big Eats. I've kind of helped with the development of the show. They've based it off me in my life.

Dave have given them a pilot. They paid for a pilot. They gave them 12 grand. Okay, so do a pilot. We go to do the pilot with Tubs in Haida, who have never been on TV before, never done anything on social media. There's two of my friends.

Dave loved the pilot. They commissioned a series. 10 episodes. One season. Fuck it. Let's see what happens. That's 2019. We film at end of 2019.

COVID hits. Music stops because you can't perform. You can't be outside. Big Eats. and yeah, man, I suddenly go from being a Grime MC to being a TV chef, like literally overnight. Overnight. So this is something that also I didn't,

I think needs to be said is that, you know, we never build anything alone. No, definitely not, right? So while you were building this career, especially like 2017, you were in a relationship. Yeah, yeah, a long-term relationship. All right, can you speak about that? Because I think that's a piece that

I think I've heard and read like, oh, yes, it was in a relationship, but this was a serious relationship. Yeah, it was deep. So I've met my first partner when I was in college. We started dating when we were just getting out of college. I was 18, she was 17. And we were just mad cool.

Like, we were just friends in college. But then when I left and then when I started doing my gap here, we started dating and we started getting closer. And like, by the time when like 20, 21, her dad said, you want to be my daughter? You have to marry her. I was like, oh, okay. It's like, yeah, bro, you want to be my daughter. You have to Islamically marry her.

And I'm not, I wasn't a mad religious. I didn't understand what I meant. So I did some digging. And I was like, okay, it's not a mad ceremony. You know, you go in a room, you go over in the mom. I have conversations. She's called in the car. So we had a Nicar.

So you got married? I got, I got Islamically married, which is quite different to getting normally married because when you get normally married, you go down a one knee and you put out of the ring and you do this mad ceremony, reception. Islamic marriage is a bit different because that's more about like religion and respect

and making your relationship halal rather than having it haram. So I did it more because her dad was like to me, this is the best thing for you, both of you. It was less that I felt like, oh, I'm ready to get married. It wasn't that. It was more her dad was like,

you want to do my daughter? It's really good. And you wanted to be with her, though? Yeah, I did want to be with her. I was young, so it was almost, I wanted to be with her, but I didn't know if I wanted to be able for the rest of my life

because we was only together for about two years when her dad said that, told us these things. So I knew, I loved her and I knew that I wanted to be with her, but I didn't know if we was right for each other

for the rest of her. I was still young. We still had a lot to work out. We still, but we made a very serious decision, which was to do on the car. And, but what it did for me was, in the early years of my career,

I, I had, like, a real focus which was to provide for my wife. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And, like, we didn't do our reception until I was about 22, but we was, like,

is I'm gonna marry before that? So, from, like, 20 to 22, which is also the years where I'm dropping our uni, pursuing music, had all these changes going on, but also had a partner that I wanted to provide for. So it gave me a level of like, it gave me a level headiness. Because when you're blowing up in music, when you're young, blowing up her music, you're lit, like, you know what I mean?

Like, you're touring, you can go and enjoy life. As a young man, you can go, you know, talk to multiple women and have all this fun. And there was times of where I strayed and I made mistakes. I'm never going to lie. But being with her made me focus. She wanted to get a mortgage and get a house and start a family. And that was always in the back of my mind. So whenever I was working, I was thinking about that.

And I think if I wasn't with her and I was single in that entirety of the come up of my career, I might be in a different place, honestly. Which she knows. She knows that. Because it sounds like what you're saying. saying is that she gave you a stability. Yeah, it made me be grounded. Yeah, that you needed when you had, when life was in flux.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So how did you two break up? So when the show airs, during COVID, we didn't live together at this point because we were still young. I was like, her family were big on us living together. And I was like, I, like, yes, but I'm 24. I'm 23, I'm 23, 24, like, I don't earn enough from my career

to go and live in a house with you right now. Let me stay at home and once I get enough, let's go. Okay. She was not, she did not like that. You know, she's like, we're married, we should have a house, we should live together, we should start up. I'm like, but we're young. And then only reason we're married because your dad told us we have to.

So, it was always, there was always this conflict, this battle. So when COVID hits, my mom was like, she's not coming. to the house. She's like, we are following the laws. I'm like, okay. So I didn't see her. I didn't see her for time. And then Big Eats comes out, the show comes out, my life kind of changes. And I mean, I can't speak on behalf of her, but I think my ex never really wanted to date someone who was in a public eye. She wanted to have a normal, low-key, nuclear family relationship. She loved me as a person, but the music, the TV, it was getting, I was, I was blowing up and for her, she didn't really ever want that. So then when, when that year happened, when 2020 happened,

I think we both came to a place where I was like to her, I feel like, I feel like you don't want this. And we love each other and we, we got a lot of love. But deep down, this, we might be, It might be right through trouble. But right now this ain't working. We just, we stopped clicking and I had to make the decision. I knew she would have stayed by my side regardless of anything. But I thought, you know what, what's best for us is let's go on a break. So I called the break and, you know, breaks don't always work.

And they really work. Went on a break and her dad called me and he was like, what do you want? And I'm like, I want her. I want her. but like I want myself as well I want what I want for myself and he was like well what do you want to do I said let's meet up we'll talk

and we'll see what what we do to me forward and then she texts me and she was like you spoke to my dad I'm like yeah yeah I told him let's link up she's like no he said you're done I was like what and she basically basically her dad said how I sounded on the phone was like I'm done

and she was like my dad said you're done. And I was like, well, I'm not. Let's meet up. She's like, just be real. Say the truth. And I was like, you know what? Fine. It's done. And then we spoke and we ended it, man. Were you truly done? Yeah. I think I think I was tired of pretending that I didn't want to put myself first. As much as I did love her, you know, me and her, we had a lot of ups and downs. you know, we were on and off. We broke up, got back together, had the break. There was that so many times where it just felt like

I had to choose either my career or her. And that's what it felt like. And, you know, she's a lovely girl and she really, really helped guide me and shape me as a man. But she didn't want to be by my side while I did what I was doing. You know what so tough about that is it sounds like you two were very compatible at a different part of your life.

Yes. Yes. You know? But I think this brings up a question that so many people have in relationships is that what happens when you have the partner who starts, you know, becoming the star in whatever career.

You know, they start climbing the corporate ladder. They start, they get the TV shows, they become a big creator. How does that, the one partner that is not in the limelight, how do they sustain a relationship with someone like that? So if you now, when you look back at that relationship, do you think there's anything that you should have done differently? I should, I think from young, I always, we suppressed what I wanted to be.

I always downplayed it. Like, oh, now my music is just my hobby. Okay. So I didn't even tell her dad that I was a musician until one day her dad sees me on YouTube. What's going on? Why is he? Rapping. I thought it was a youth worker. Yeah. And then I, you know, I sat down with my told them the truth. I said, look, you know, you're a religious man. I didn't want you to not accept me because of music. But I'm like, listen to my music though. This is what I'm saying. Listen to what I'm saying. Listen to what I'm talking about. Listen to what I... Don't get me wrong. I have songs that are like gang and songs that are gas and got some messaging that isn't the greatest. But I do have a lot of songs that are about young people and moving forward and making a change.

So he listened to my message And he was like Okay, music is Haram And I don't agree with it But if it's what brings you love And it brings you passion and you're happy And it makes you money Then do it

When you say music is Haram He's saying he's saying music is the devil Yes essentially Like music is not allowed In Islam That's just how it is And that being a rap art It's not a good thing

Like religiously earning money From suffering haram it means that your money is not blessed. And I don't think God put music on this earth for us to not use it to help people. I think there is bad size to it. Don't get me wrong.

There's negative connotations of rap that bring down our community, but they're also a beautiful size that brought us up. And I think that's what the thing with her dad was is that she was just worried about that. So I think that was always a thing in our relationship that was quite tough, is that I always suppressed who I am

to suit what she wanted. Whereas I should have never done that. She's always been open about who I am and who I am to her dad. I should have told her from, should have told her from the jump. I should have told her I got these big dreams. I really want to make it. I want to be who I am now. Right.

You know? Whereas I suppress that to try and suit our relationship, which was wrong. Do you miss that relationship at all? I think what I miss. What's weird is that, you know, I've had two partners since her. And one thing I always think about is people say, you should be with a girl that was with you before anything blew up. That's like always a thing you see on that,

whether it's a film or whether it's like a TV or whatever. Sometimes I do think like she was really important to me and I wish that she could have some of the experiences that I have now. But with the lifestyle that I have now, with the fact that I've been able to earn it in good ways and like just like being able to travel the world and eat some of the maddest food. wish I was able to do that with her. But I think this is how God writ. God said, you're going to get

to a certain point with her and then I'm going to take it to another place without her. You know, so there are parts of me that do sometimes think, would it make sense for me to be with her because she was with me from before. She knew me from when I was in college. Right. But then I also know, we weren't, we weren't meant for each other because I'm here without her and she needs someone that suits her better than me. Just because we love each other doesn't mean we should be together. Yeah. You know?

So you still love her? That's getting deep. I think I always have love for her, which is the easiest answer in the world, right? I was going to say, don't give me that. Don't give me that. Give me the real. Give me the real. Give me the real.

Oh, it's tough, man. I think I think I have moved on from her, but it always been a little, little part of me. that will always love her. Yeah. Nothing that happens with your first partner. I was over for seven years, you know? Mm-hmm. And I know any future girlfriend is watching this

going to be like, fucking prick. No. No, you know what it is, too, is the reason why I ask that is because your body language has been chilled the entire time that we've talked. We've been talking forever. Oh, this guy, my now, I knew who's going to get here. Where's the camera?

I did it. You know, you're right. Yeah, you're right. The moment I want to let you finish off. What? I have been very chilled.

And now I'm nervous. Now you're nervous. You're moving. You're doing this. You sound like, I was like, yo, look, he went the first time I seen him do this.

And you lean back like that. It's so funny. No, it's funny. I find it funny. It's hilarious. Yeah. Our body never lies. No.

Body never lies. All you're good, man. He's good to da. He's good to da. All right, we won't keep pushing it. I mean, the BAFTA, we have to spend a second on that because that was a big moment. Yeah.

That's a big, big, big moment. Yeah, that changed a lot. You get nominated. What's your thought when you hear about the nomination? We were nominated for the season that came out in 2020 lost. Then the season that came out in 2021 was for the 2022 Basters. So it's 2022. We're allowed out again, normal COVID.

First time ever gone to the Baxter. after awards, nominated for best editing performance, I nominated for best feature program. I didn't even understand what that means. I don't know what it means. I just, I remember I get there, I mean, my friends were just like, see that go, isn't it?

We lost the last one, so we had no expectation. And yeah, just, I remember sitting down, the first award was for best feature. And I remember just looking at the presenter and I could see their lips. I'm like, you're gonna say big. And I remember the winner is, as soon as I saw the book, I said, oh my days, I looked to my team.

They said, please do not bring everyone to the stage before. Everyone, mom, friends, the whole team, everyone's on stage. And it was my moment, man. I got to the lector and they said, look at the order queue. You have one minute. And I just said, I'm going to speak my truth. And it all came out. And I remember, I'm like, yo, my mom was the last person to walk on stage.

I'm like, oh, hanged at that woman right there. That's my mom. She was a refugee from Seleon. It's the first thing I said. Yes. Because I felt like it was the most important thing to say. She's a refugee from Celion. She came here four months pregnant during a rebel war.

Tabzi, my boy to my right. His family are from Iraq and Iran who were in a war when he was born. This is Haida. He's from Kurdistan, which is in a recognized state. man come from humble beginnings and I just, I remember that set the tone because I let, I knew at that moment I let everyone know where we're from

which was important to let them know look how far we've come. Then I started speaking, I started talking about where we come from. I said, yo, if you saw people see people like us in the BAFTA, you know, they can think they can do anything. Then I went to the main most important point which was about working class.

people in television because TV is not run by the worker class but the country is like we we make up the worker class makes up most of the country so shouldn't TV be representative of who the country is but more than 50% of TV is not working class so then that doesn't make sense because then the people that make the shows aren't actually representing society then you add in race then you add in gender then you add in sex it's the like all the is and schisms. And then, so I,

I wanted to say something that was important, but if it just, when I was looking at this room full of all these elaborate, famous white people, I'm like, working cross.

That's who we did this for. Normal people from normal backgrounds. Which half of you want. And I remember saying that point, and the whole room clapped, and then I get in the backstage and we take our pictures with my bathtub, and I go on my phone,

and I'm like, rah, viral. Yes. Because it touched people and I didn't plan it. I didn't. I just said how I felt I've gone back in the room now of holding this bathtub. Everyone's looking to me differently.

At first, everyone was looking at me like, who's this guy? Now everyone's looking at me like, you're the guy that won the bathtub. I sit down. Next award comes up. I win again. I'm like, oh shit. I remember I get on stage. I'm like, well, said it all in the first speech.

So I got an eye to say. So I big up my mom again. So I got big up my mom twice because she did both roles. That's what I said. And my dad messaged me after. He's like, you didn't have to say that. I was like, shut up.

And I remember when I went the second one, I was like, this is, this is a historic moment for me. I'm 26 years old. I left my passion music to follow something like, another passion of mine. And here I am at the height of how you can be recognized. in this medium. Right.

But isn't it interesting how quickly it changes? Yeah. Because this is my story for you is that was my first BAFTA. Okay. I was seated four rows in front of you. Okay, mad.

And I remember you distinctly, you and your crew, the reason why is I was like, yo, they didn't even wear tuxes. I was in a yellow stone island jacket, yeah. I was like, yo, my man rolled up just like how he wants to roll. Yeah.

But the reason why it stood out so much to me is because I had posted basically the same thing. But I didn't win. But I had posted. I was like, look where I came from, especially from the U.S., and here I am at my first BAFTA. Yeah, that's mad. I was like, yo, just to do this is wild. Then you won. And I felt like you were holding it down for so many of us.

Yeah, one million percent. But the one thing I definitely saw, and you tell me, if I saw it right or wrong, is I peeped you when you and your crew first came in. And I was like, you know what, this is interesting because they, like, it looked like you were just there and no one was really paying you any attention. Nope. The moment you had that BAFTA in your hand, I couldn't even get it. Because I wanted to come up and say, yo, congrats my man. Like, you don't know me, but congratulations. I couldn't even get to you. No, no, it was mad. That's how many people had surrounded your area where you were. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Is that how it happened? Yeah, and we left. For that. We left. We left.

Oh, really? Because it was... It was too mad. The dinner wasn't nice. Which they hate us. I'm very cool with the BAFTAs and I respect them as an organisation. But that dinner was bad. So we left. But we didn't just leave because we didn't like the food. You know, don't get me wrong.

Cooking for that many people isn't easy. So no disrespect to the caterers. But we left because it just didn't feel right. We went from being the random kids in a room. Why are you guys? Why are you in a yellow Stone Island jacket? it to, congrats!

And we just felt like we needed to go soak it in. So we went to a cabab shop. Went to a random cabb shop in West London. Me, Tubsey, Hyder, and my manager, Matt, and the commissioner, Natalie Rose. We all left.

I looked at the woman that does, that did all the marketing for Dave. And I just, I said to her, can I leave? She was like, you won. Do you want? I was like, okay, I'm gone. And I remember we left and I remember that.

Because, you know, after the dinner, you have the party, we just never felt welcomed. How do we change that? Because, you know, quite honestly, I left early too. I've been to two Bafters. And both I've left early. Because what I think a lot of people don't realize is that after the award show,

you walk down the stairs to a dinner. Yeah, yeah. That's set up. And then to your point, that dinner turns into a party, which is into a party. another party, party, party, party. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what it always feels like to me,

and I don't know if this is because I'm an introvert. Yeah. But I never feel fully comfortable in that space. Yeah, definitely. And it's interesting because on television, I feel comfortable. Like when I'm doing my thing, I do my thing. And I feel good about it.

But when I'm in those spaces where it is the television industry, I always feel marginalized. 100%. Yeah. So what's your take on how you feel in those spaces and then how do we change those spaces?

All right. So long so short, it's always filled with white people. We're in a white country. So that makes sense. But the industry should be reflective of the country. Country, there's quite a few black people.

Yeah? There's a percentage. We're low percentage. percentage, but there's a bit, then there's a bit of Asian people, then there's different minorities, then there's disabled people. The room is not reflective of society. The room is reflective of the TV industry. And the TV industry, there's a lot of white men. So you see that. Then it feels a little bit elitist because it's like, I speak slang, I'm from the hood, I don't drink champagne, we drink henny. There's so, there's so many, there's so many,

little connotations that you don't, you don't, like me personally, I don't, like, conform to. So when I get in the room now, instantly, I don't feel like I'm in the right place. And it's not just the BAFTAs, it's all TV awards shows because we're lucky to get nominated for them all, most of them. Most of them, I've been to. And I always do all the same. I always feel like, I'm always looking for, like, the other ethnic people. Like, when I see them, I go, yeah.

You're here. We're here. There's another one. Right. But it's like there's one. Yeah, there's not a lot. You know, two. No, there's not a lot.

Don't give me wrong. They've worked hard to change it. This year I went to the Basta's. I didn't stay for the thing. I was presenting my award and I left. And I remember seeing Supercell nominated. And they sat together and there's like 10 black people sitting together. And I was like, that's so powerful.

Look at that. But then they stuck out. And it's just really interesting because, you know, people are going to comment and say, you know, we live in a white country. It's England. Of course, the TV should have a lot of white people and it should. But the representation, the opportunities that get given to people of color, that get given to people from different backgrounds, it's got a long way to go. And I think that night that I wonder after was part of that change, part of that different representation. And I think this is where the audience has more power.

than the audience thinks. Yes. They have. You know, for example, in the U.S., there was this big campaign of Oscars So White. from hashtag Oscar So White. And it started to create change around diversity and inclusion in the Oscars.

And you think with television, it's like, people vote with their eyes. They vote with their downloads. Naturally. Yeah. And when I look at your success as well as, I think, wow, this is interesting because you, the reason why a commissioner

wants you to, to present a show is because they know people are going to watch. Yeah. And so if they know people are going to watch you, that means that people are connecting with you. Yeah. That could be of a different race, different ethnicity, different religion. One million percent.

You know, so what do you think it is? I know this is going to be, it sounds like I'm asking you to stroke your ego, but on the real is, what do you think it is about you that resonates with so many people? I'm just a normal British kid. And I think that resonates to them. Obviously, I'm a TV chef. And most TV chefs do not sound like me or look like me. So I think what Big Eats did really well as a cooking show

was make food relatable to normal people. And I used to think it was a race thing. It wasn't, it was a class thing. We made food accessible to the working class. Dave is a channel that is mostly watched by working class people. So when they watch the show, they saw me and my two friends from secondary school having a laugh.

Yeah, I'm mixed race and I'm from Ceylon and I'm from Lebanon and I speak slang and I love grime and I manned them and I wear track suits. But under all of that, under all the is and schisms, I was born in London and I love food. That's it.

That's it. And I think that television is so intimate. You know, the audience is inviting you into their living room. Yeah, yeah, 100%. You know, their most intimate space in their house probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're spending time. Spending time with you, yeah.

I saw that 30% of Brits feel as if Islam is a threat to British culture. And most of that sentiment is held by middle to upper class. Yeah. You know. But then at the same time, you have 90% of Muslims in this country. have felt an increased threat on their lives since 2024, in particular since the seven. To me, it feels incredibly sad both ways.

So you being a Muslim man on television, right? What's your thought in terms of how do we, do you see a path to us being able to get to a place where there's a higher level of respect of your religion? I mean, yeah, I think it's so tough to unpack, bro. The BBC just did a show with me called Big Zoo Goes to Mecca, yeah? Which Ed, which Ed, last year. And we got so much love for it, so much respect for it.

You know, people really love the show. People from all walks of life. And I respect the BBC for giving me a platform to do that. But there was a lot of pushback as well. Like, why is BBC commissioned in the show about a Muslim guy going to do his pilgrimage? Like, do we need to see that? Why are we paying? Why are taxpayers paying for that?

What's mad is that throughout of big eats, me, tabs in Hyder, we're all Muslim. All of us are Arab. We say words like, inshallah. We talk about halal. We don't eat pork. We're like, the man they don't drink. All these little things, like. And people loved it because we're still British.

We don't compromise on our Britishness. We're still British. We're just Muslims that are British. And I think You know I think representation is super important Because when you have shows like that Subconsciously we're breaking down

People who have a certain Ideology that Muslims are Doing negative things to the country Because they watch us on the Ellie And they go Those lads are all right Yeah So actually maybe that Muslim guy I know in real life

Maybe he isn't coming for me Maybe he's cool as well So representation is super important Because it breaks down a subconscious And the best way for me to give an example is I love Rosie Jones, yeah. Rosie Jones, she's a comedian, that's Seven Pozy, she's mad,

she's mental, she's hilarious, so funny. I've never even had a conversation with someone with Seven Pozy, let alone chill to them. So when I did an episode of Big Eats with her, it was a big shot for me because it's like, how do I talk to you,

how do I appropriate you? Do I change how I am with you? Do I just treat you the same? Do I go slower? My brain was thinking all these things. But as soon as I spent two minutes of them, I'm like, she's a normal chick, brother. Do you know what I'm saying?

Right. So it taught me, sometimes you have to be around things to understand them. So my episode with Rosie is my favorite episode because I cook her, this mad mill and then me and her get on like a house on fire. So now when people watch the episode,

they'll see, oh, that Rosie Jones woman, yeah, she's the disabled comedian, but she's actually really funny. She's a normal chick. She's quite rude. and she's scratch, she might be a little bit of a prick, but like in a good way.

But then that's breaking down the barrier of what you think of disabled people. Now, you might think disabled people are not able. You might people think they can't, they're not funny or they don't, they're not, like she loves talking about women, like she's a lesbian, she loves gal. Like you maybe not think that they have any sexuality to them.

You might not think they even have sex. So then that's breaking it down. So if that's what Rosie is doing with her, by being representative of people, with several palsy, that's what me and Tubbs are doing and Hyde are doing or representing the people from Islam. Right. But then you can't just have us.

You need a wealth of us because Muslims come in different shapes and sizes and come in different forms. Same way you can't just have Rosie because Rosie is not the only disability there is in the world. You have to have different forms of different representation across the board. You can't just have one black man because that one black man doesn't represent all black people. Right. So even though he's a cool black man, he's a nice black man, there might be a different type of black man who's a bit more funny or who's a bit more strict or who's a bit more wacky. You need all forms so you can understand all forms of that race or that gender or that disability or that sex. So

I feel like what we have with representation on telly is that because there's not enough, things get put into a box. And I'm with you because even behind the scenes, because I've been in television here in this country for seven years, all seven years that I've been here, in the US and there's a big difference between the television industry in the US and the UK. Big difference. There's we're not where we need to be in the US but we're much more diverse. Yeah. Than we are. Yeah. Naturally I mean that would make sense. I come from music which is way more diverse as an industry. Yeah. Because naturally music is open. Right. Anyone. Right. So yeah your label execs might be of the same like the same as telly, but people in positions of power of music are diverse.

There's women, there's men, there's people from different races, different genders. Telly is completely different. Yes. Telly, I've entered a telegame and I'm like, whoa. Big nasty open the doors for me, which I never thought would ever be a thing. I never thought big nasty, the Graham MC would be the person that opened the doors for people like me to get into television. Because nasty open the door for me, that means I can go open the door for other people. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. Tony Morrison, one of my favorite writers of all time, right? She talks about what freedom is is helping someone else become free. Yeah. Right? And it seems like that's what's happening because I heard you say that you formed a production company. Yeah, yeah, I got a production company. So what's the focus? What's your goal with the production company?

The main thing for we're called Big Productions, which is the easiest name of all time, which is hilarious. I could have been a bit more creative. Big Productions, I built it one type ownership. Because I felt like when I was making my show Big Eats, I was coming up with all the ideas. Not all the ideas in terms of like I flipping created a show, but I came up of a lot of it is based off me. It's called Big Zoos Big Eats.

Right, right. A lot of the essence, the flow, the ideas, they stem from who I am as a person. But I had no ownership over the IP, over all these little back-end bullshit things that you don't care about when you first get into telly who you just want to present. But you start realizing, whoa, whoa.

I'm not the most important. person in this room right now, the exec is, the commissioner is, they get all the applauded, they get all the enjoyment. I, as a talent, yeah, I get, I'm lit, but they're actually the G's. Yeah. The exec producer and the commissioner, they're the ones that are winning. How can I be with them? And it was big Nasty's team that told my manager, you should start a production company, because that's what they did. So Nasty gave me this advice to go start a production company. So I did. But then I started realizing, how do I give people from different backgrounds, opportunities in telly,

which goes back to me being a youth worker, raising aspirations of young people. That's been the common theme. Yeah, throughout my career. Yeah. First season, everyone was white. Only black guy was a runner. Season two, we get a black director.

By season four now, completely diverse, service producers as a black woman. I get a black woman to come be a director, camera ops, soundies, And then this is the point where I started to realize it's not just about color, it's about class. Right, right.

So then it's about hiring people from different class. So then I get some working class people in the show. And then I start realizing, okay, it's not just about race and class, about gender as well. So getting women, like getting a female director, getting a female series producer. Just the representation is important because I tell you, my son, my youngest son,

he saw you. Yeah. He was like, oh wow, I could do this. That means I could cook too, because he loves, He's always in our house cooking up things. He makes me coffee. We call him the barista. We call him the angry barista.

He's always mad with it. He's very Jamaican. He's very, very, very bad. But it wasn't until he saw you on TV where he thought, you know what? I can actually do this. And there's so much power in that. It's bad, bro. I never realized how much of an impact I'm having that way.

Yeah. I grew up watching Simon Rimmer, Gordon Ramsey, like, James Martin, like, classic old school white brothers, who I got love for, they're my G's. Like, I'm actually friends with them in real life. I grew up watching them and I was inspired by them. But not everyone is inspired by them. Not everyone has infinity to them.

So you're missing out on inspiring all these young people to get into the kitchen and cook because they don't feel represented. And that's what TV has the chance to do, the power to do, is to inspire people to get into things that takes them away from the rubbish they're doing. Sometimes this country complains about ethnic people or people of color, getting into the wrong lane or doing bad things or going on the wrong path. But if they don't have role models and they don't have people to inspire them, what do you expect?

How do you being aware of all of this and you have a career that's growing? Like you've already achieved incredible amount, but it's clear that you're still just, like you're just taking off, right? So how do you manage public perception as well as your personal faith? It's tough, bro. I'm not the best Muslim, in it. Like, I always admit it. Like, I'm, sometimes I do go off track.

Sometimes I do drink alcohol. Sometimes I do things that are wrong. And I repent and I repent in my own way. I always remember, I always tell myself, I'm a human, I'm allowed to make mistakes. I'm not going to be perfect. I'm going to get things wrong. But thankfully, I'm just doing a lot of things right now. I mean, right now.

Like, yeah, you're in your moment. I was talking with your show sponsored Tinder, and they wanted to know if you've ever been on a date that ended up in an unexpected way. Do you have anything like that? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Endless, endless stories. I mean, one in particular is that when Jill and I were dating,

we went to a slam poetry competition, which I will say, I knew nothing about slam poetry. And that's when I learned that you snap your fingers, right, when you applaud. I specifically went there because I wanted to impress Jill so that I can get a little, I'll say bonus afterwards, you know. But what I learned through one of the poets is that we are all artists.

The poet specifically said, we are all artists. And that triggered something in me. It made me click to the point where I realized that I wanted to create. I wanted to figure out how to do that. So afterwards, we went out to eat, Jill and I, and we started talking about creating art together. And I learned from that date that, you know, the date isn't just about the other person.

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Spend $250 on your first campaign. campaign and get a $2.50 credit. Go to LinkedIn. Go to LinkedIn. I know all about Sierra Leone. Okay, man. And love it because one of my best friends grew up in Liberia. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the capital of Sierra Leone is? Free town. Free town. You know how it got to be free town. Yeah, well, I know a little bit. It was tougher to do when the British colonized and it was like a passing place for, like, for the slave trade when people would come over from East Africa all the way down to west. And then I think the name just comes.

So the fact that it was a free time. Is it really a return? Okay, I think that's part of it. What is not taught that I know is the true history is also right after the Revolutionary War all throughout the UK, what happens? You have a lot of men coming back from the war. Yeah.

Right? They have no jobs. They're unemployed. Out of all men, in terms of race, who's going to be the most unemployed? Black men? Black men. So what happened? In the late 1700s, you had black men all throughout the streets of London.

Birmingham, Manchester. And there were a lot of people who said, you know what? We got to get them out of here. Okay. What are we going to do? I know. We're going to take them.

We're going to send them all to this one spot and we're going to liberate them, right? And the reason why I think that's important history not to be forgotten is because that not only happened in Sierra Leone. It happened in Liberia. Like this social engineering is wild to me. I also read about the maroons in Jamaica coming back after slavery ended in parts of the Caribbean

and going back to spread Christianity through free time. Definitely. And that's how you get the Creole tribe. Because a lot of the descendants or the Creole tribe are from the Jamaican Maroons, which is why a lot of times people say Creole sounds like Patua. Yes.

So when I say I speak Creole, a lot of people go, oh, you speak French? I'm like, nah, we speak broken English. I think like we're the only language. language that is an African language that is connected to the Caribbean the other way. Like it comes from the Caribbean to us. It's mad when I looked into the history because I always said like, Sierra Leone and Jamaica are so like similar.

Kin. Same vibes. Yeah, man. To this point is your father was from Lebanon. Yes. Right? My dad's parents were born in Sierra Leone. So they come from Haris, which is the south of Lebanon.

Okay. Which is like the mountains and stuff. When the war was happening, a lot of them, fled and the plan was to go to America, like for most of them. And what happened is, is they all stopped in different parts along their journey to America. So some of them got to East Africa. Then they got to Ceylon, which is kind of like the end point. And what they would do is from Ceylon go over to America or over to Brazil.

Like there's a lot of Lebanese people in Brazil. There's massive Lebanese population in South Palo. But then a lot of them stayed in Ceylon. So my great-grandparents went over and stayed. And then they built businesses there and they kind of created a community. And my grandparents were born there and they had a good life. Like my, my, my grandma went to boarding school in England. Because Selon was a British colony and the alliance with Britain,

up until the war, you could come to Britain, but like, you didn't really, I didn't think you needed a visa. I think you could just come straight to Britain. But then they implemented the visa stuff when the war started. And eventually, my dad found a way. And my mom got a visa when she was four months pregnant with me. And then that's when she came over with me. And how old was she?

She was 26. Wow. 26. And it was only your mother and father who came. No, my dad stayed. Oh, you dad stayed? Because my dad's Lebanese. Okay.

The Lebanese, they had a different position in the war. A lot of them lost all their wealth to survive. And that's what happened with my dad's family is that they was doing all right. They was, you know, they had their business. They worked in cars. And when the war started, just to survive, they lost everything because they didn't want to leave. During the time that my mom was in like first moved over to England and my dad was coming over. He tried help.

But then after time, they're not together. Long this relationship doesn't work. So by the time I was like two, three, they split up. Okay. And that's when our lives completely changed. Because obviously my dad stopped supporting my mom. My mom's now a single parent in England on her own. Our life like drastically changed.

We go to like this, like this refugee hotel. It's like an old, like, big, like mansion house. But it was converted into little rooms. So me and my mum stayed there for two years temporary accommodation. And then we finally got moved to like a house, which was in West London, which is where I spent most of like my, my childhood. Growing up, I used to think, I used to just hate my dad. Because obviously my dad was in my life.

I used to always think, why did, why was I in this position? It's only as I've got older, as I spent more time and my dad asking him, what's going on during the war? Like, he's broken down to me, his side of the story. And my mom doesn't resent my dad. My mom got a lot of love for my dad. Like, it's just unfortunate what happened. But I can see that without question,

it was your mother who shaped you. 100%. I am her. You are. And you know what was when at the BAFTA's when you brought her up? Yes. I think everyone was like, oh my gosh, he's got a young mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Everyone couldn't believe how she looked. My mom is a beautiful lady. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Actually, last weekend I had a conversation with my boys, two boys, 11 and 14, around masculine traits and feminine traits. Yep. So do you believe that you embody both traits?

Yeah, for sure. Because I was raised by a woman. I wasn't raised by a man. So there's a lot of masculine traits I don't have because I wasn't installed in me growing up. You know? My mom is a scandalous, lady and she takes care of herself.

So I love, I love, like, skincare and stuff, which maybe might not be the most masculine thing. But I think it's super important. So, like, come to my house, you're going to my bathroom, I got bed, owner, serum, eye serum, cream. Like, do you know what I'm saying? And, like, I find it hilarious. And obviously, I'm very loving.

I cook. I'm a, like, cooking is also sometimes synonymous with women in their house, you know, even though a lot of chefs are men, like the most predominantly most successful chefs are men, which is quite weird, I'm quite weird. But like the trait of cooking is normally auntie, grandma, mum. Whereas me, I'm the chef.

Which is quite weird, like, because as a guy, I'm also this, like, Grime MC is very tough and I'm big, I'm a big lad, and, like, I'm manned them. So it's like, I've always had this, this balance that it's like, I'm from the hood, like, I got to be tough, like, you've got to be a G. I'm also quite a soft tender man, which I get from my mum.

And I think nowadays, compared to when I was young, that is celebrated. I think what we're doing for young men is giving them a chance to express rather than suppress and put them feelings in the box. So you having that conversation with young kids,

it's a comfort I never had growing up. I never had that convo about feminine chase and masculine chase and masculine chase. I just followed up. my friends told me. And actually it's what you do. Because we all want to be in unison. And I feel like young men, when it comes to what you're saying is that they go with whatever their friends are telling them. If their friends are saying, we're going to go here and do this, that's what you do. If they say this is cool, that's what you do. Whereas now we're realizing you can still be part of a group,

but you can also be individuals. So I have friends who are so different to me. We don't have to align on everything. We don't have to have the same traits, but we can still be great friends. Whereas I feel like before we almost felt like to be in unison to be in a group with other men you had to align with what they liked same way it's like growing up in England it's like do you have football

yeah yeah I like football who do sport or you spot this team oh we're a gang but then you meet a guy who doesn't like football you're like what's wrong with you bro

you ain't got a team what? That's mad whereas now it's like you're yeah fine what do you like I mean masculinity is a topic that always pops up, you know, on the show.

In particular, the relationship that men have with each other. Yes. In particular, because what we see with all the research is that men are having fewer relationships, fewer close relationships. Yeah. And becoming lonelier over the years. So when you think about your social circle,

it feels like, to me, though, that you're very connected. Yeah, me and my brothers, we're gang, man. Yeah. We've got a big, like, a big group of us. We're all, like, we're all just, we're all really close. We all, we all tell each other, like, where we're at mentally. We're all, like, we're all there for each other. We all support each other.

I'm really lucky, man. I've got a really big group of, like, just really good friends, man. The fact that you just have conversation around where you are mentally is, is not the standard. Yeah. So, which is quite mad because for me, it feels normal. Like, if I'm going through some stuff, call the lads, man. We go sit down, go get a food.

We're just, I got really, like, we're almost family. Me and my bridges are family. Wow. So what do you say to the person listening who doesn't feel like they have that family, but wants that, needs that in their life? I would say, don't be afraid to speak to random people. I feel like that's what the UK has, like,

has definitely done to people. It's like, you get on a train and like, no one speaks to each other. Like, a person can be on fire in front of you. And people are like, read the metro, that person's fine. Are you okay? Yeah, like England's very like that. And I feel like people that are, like, going through that, like, loneliness or don't have that connection.

I would say the best thing from that, I mean, it goes back to youth work. Community hubs, man. Type him with your local community, like, like volunteering. Volunteering is a great way to get into a group of people. You know, some people, they move to London and they don't have that community. They don't have friendship around them. Or they're taking that leap of faith and gone to a new place and they don't feel accepted. I always say volunteering and going to a local community

is the best way to get involved. Because I'm from West. And in West, where I'm from is, I'm from Harrow Road, which is connected to Labbert Grove. And, like, Lab at Grove is like a massive community place where a lot of the working class come together. And, like, you saw that in response to Grenfell, the Grenfell tragedy.

It was a work class people that came together and helped, brought the food together and brought the people together and getting offered shelter. If it's not your community hub, I would say, like, sports is a great way to get into it. Like, because I have a lot of friends where we,

me and my lads, we always play football together, or we box together. Sports is a great way to connect. So if it's not sports and it's not community, sometimes they're just finding people that are like-minded, that like the stuff you like and going into that, like, whether it's, like, gaming or whether it's, like, food, or whether it's fashion.

Like, I feel like that for me is the fabric of society. It's people's niche, random things that they love, connecting with people on that. If you love music like go to an open mic night or it's that sometimes it's having that confidence to step out your comfort zone to go lean into what you love. That's the hardest step I think that young people or people in general face. And if there's anything, any word of advice I give to anyone listening who's looking to take a step away from what they do in the everyday life and find something in their passion is you've got to take that leap of faith. You have to do because at the end of the day you're

going to feel so much better. Yeah. You were mentioning many things that I think positively impact mental health. You were talking about boxing, right, playing sports, etc. Yeah. When you think about the areas that you struggle with around mental health, because we all have struggles. Yeah. What are those areas for you? So, I'm such a positive person that sometimes it can be overbearing. Sometimes I feel like I create this like false reality and I, sometimes it's okay to have like negative emotion and sometimes it's okay to feel down and it's okay to like, like not be in a mood. Whereas, the big zoo character I am is always up and high.

Yeah? So sometimes what I realize is that I need, what someone said to me is you need some space just to switch off and not do anything. Just chill at home. Watch a film like or just switch off like. Sometimes I think I do too much. Like mentally I'm trying to succeed.

I want so much that sometimes I don't ever get time to just chill and then sometimes you burn out. And I felt that I've burned out. before and it's not a good feeling. When you think about your career and burning out, what was the lowest point? There was a time

where I filmed for 28 days in a row, no breaks, I did 28 days, I filmed every single day for 28 days. And before, I was like, I can just be fine, I'll be fine. You know, I'll have my nights off. No, by the end, I started getting nosebleeds and shit.

Like, I wasn't performing well. I felt battered, bruised, I felt finished and I said to myself, I can't do this anymore. As a creative, sometimes in a creative space, you feel like you can't say no, you can't turn down an opportunity. And from that, I realized, taking time off, switching off and being in a space

where you could just not think about anything is almost as important as creating. But now I've learnt, sometimes the power of no is so important. Because if you say no, sometimes it might make someone go, okay, we'll get back to you, we'll get you another time. And you might be worth more at that time. So it might actually get you more. I was so afraid of like turning things down, bro.

I was like, I work because, like, one thing about me, people tell you, like, if you know me in the entertainment space, I work hard, bro. Like, I'm on it. Sometimes I've been too on it and just got so drained that I'm just like a robot, bro. and that's not healthy man so then I stopped I stopped doing that and started taking time off and started taking a month off

and like in 2023 I went to Jamaica for a month no better place to go gee yeah I went Kingston then I went Ochi then I went to Treasure Beach which is in the corner

in St Elizabeth and then I went to Montego Bay so I did like a circle the island and I just I mean I did some work out there I did some filming out there there's some things like there. But the main chunk of it was to just relax.

And I came back in September and I went hard, you know, I felt recharged my back. Now, everyone doesn't have that luxury or being able to fly to a beautiful island for a month. Not even more could do that. You know, I work hard, so I was able to enjoy in that sense. But whether it was taking time off and just going to your local park, bro, or just take a time off and not doing what you do,

it's so important to take time off. And I learned that the hard way in 2022. Because 2022, when I won the BAFTAs, I was, I need to work even harder now. But then I ended up burning out. You burned out? Yeah, bro. And like, my team always, my team turned around and were like,

Zoo, you need some time off, bro. And that was the first, that, 2020 was the first year I took a holiday and it took time off. And then I said to myself, I'm going to do this every year. You know what so interesting about that in 2020? I could think that the public was probably thinking, Zoo is at the top of the world on 2020. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but it sounds like that was one of the lowest moments for you.

Yeah. Because what it was is I got everything, everything like was amazing in terms of my work life. But like, personally, I was very drained and, you know, I'd just come out of COVID. And I've like, I've committed myself to TV and I'm in this new space. I started a production. I've got so much going on. So from 2022 to 2023, I've, I was. I was, I was, I worked really hard, bro.

Can we talk about relationships? Yeah, it's that. Are you, are you actively looking? I just, dating is tough right now because I'm like, I want to meet someone I can settle down for life with and I want to have kids with them, but I need to spend enough time with them and enjoy them before we get to that space. Exactly. And sometimes you look at you, you know, you look at the watcher that, oh, do I have time?

And like, I can't put my finger on it. I feel like I want that, but then what I represent and what I'm doing takes a lot of my time away from like, have a building with someone. And when I do try to build with someone, I had a relationship last year and we only ended up being together for a couple months because I didn't see, I couldn't see a solid future with them. So I just kind of said, whoa, I'm out. And I feel like I kind of need to get to a point where I just don't know.

to be willing to like maybe be hurt to have that with someone because I feel like sometimes I tell myself I need a perfect partner who I can see the rest of my life with and I don't think that's real. No one's perfect. I think you meet someone and you grow with them. But in my head I'm like, but they need to have all these traits and qualities that I can see in a woman for the rest of my life, then I'll be with them. That's just not realistic because I feel like those kind of people are probably already taken.

So it's interesting. So it sounds like what you're saying is that you want to be in a relationship with someone, but you don't know if it's possible. I think it is. I just don't know with who and I don't know where I'm going to find him. Okay. Okay. So then I have to ask, are you trying to find this person?

So this is what I'm telling myself is that I feel like I am, but I feel like by doing that you're not. So I feel like sometimes I have, I've been. date in and I speak to people and I meet people. But is that my pure intention? I don't know. Okay. I feel like a part of me still just enjoying life

and trying to get to know myself. And I feel like I can't develop that with someone until I'm fully like ready. I think what helps you out a lot is that you have strong friends. Yeah. Yeah. So they allow, they fill that emotional space.

They're companions. You know what I mean? Because without them, I can imagine things could be lonely. Yeah, for sure. for you, yeah. Because I used to live with three of my friends. Two of them were the guys that I do my show with.

And then one of them is someone I grew up making music with. I only just moved out like two weeks ago. Oh, wow. So you're living on your own for the first time? First time ever. Wow. Things might get lonely for you. Yeah, it's weird.

Like, because I'm so used to having people in my house. I'm so used to, someone's always in my house. Whereas now I'm going home and I'm like, the kitchen is the same. Okay. That's how I left to live from. Like, I need to clean that. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, first time in my life ever living on my own.

I feel like I'm fine. I feel like past few months I've taken a lot of decisions to finally focus on myself and be on my own. And the thing is, I've got a big team. And in my team, I have managers and I have this, I have a PA and I have a this. So I have a lot of people that, like, literally work for me to make me be a great person.

Yeah. I feel like I've had to make a couple of decisions to actually focus myself personally. Personally. Good. And personally develop. And I'm doing that, man. It's good.

Let's talk. Because I know we've talked about everything. I want to talk about all the things that you're doing. Because I think that another aspect that people don't realize is that you are an entrepreneur. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I think that people might put you in the box of, okay, he's a creator. But, you know, you are a founder.

Like you have companies. So when you think about the big zoo, brand. What are all the pieces to that brand and what are you adding to it? So there's the TV stuff, big productions. Then there's Drit water brand. It's my canned water. I started it two years ago with my manager and a drink's expert guy called Paul. With drip is taking over my life. Wow. Has it? Yeah. We've got a lot of staff in the UK. We've just gone to America. Wow. Okay. Signed a door with the UFC. Like, we're doing a lot of festival this year, we're doing wireless, we're doing park life.

So, you know, we're expanding our, from the store. So we've got, right now we've got W.H. Smith, we've got Morrisons and Iceland, you know, looking to get into other supermarkets. So there's so much going on in that. Then we're launching a new product as well. So drip is mad. Drip's like, I'm actually like a boss. Big productions is that I'm an exec, it's TV, I have fun.

Big Zoo stuff is that I've been doing that for years. Whereas drip is like new company, new staff having to deal with stuff. having to deal with just all these new things I never dealt with in my life. Drip is mad. And then the other side is that I run a music label called Legacy Living. Wow, okay. So we have the music label, which is crazy. And then I'm also part of a restaurant group and we launched a pub in Camden called a Dock Horse.

Really? So there's all these little things going on. And I'm just like, and I'm just like, and I sort of. I'm trying to do more. I want to do more. I want to expand. I want to open a restaurant abroad. I want to open a restaurant, my own restaurant in the UK. Like, just so, but then also, and then on top of all of that, I do a lot of like charity work. So there's, I'm ambassador for multiple charities. I try and do as much youth work as I can. That's the main thing. It's all of that, plus not forgetting where I came from,

which is the youth work stuff. So I still try and like stay on top. And like, one of my managers She's here, she's called Laura, she's here, and she gets influx of emails of like, because you appear at this and because you do this and because you, and managing all of that while still trying to be true to that is actually my hardest battle. Man, you know what, that's more expensive than I thought. It's a lot. It's a lot. Because I see you pop, like I see the music.

By the way, paid and full is I like it. Thank you, bro. I like it. I thought I was going to hear Eric B and Rakim paid and full of beat. Oh, yeah, on that. But, yeah, but, but, you know, you, even when you perform, man, like you're very talented. Thank you.

You know, you strike me. I don't know if anyone has told you this, but the way you sound and how you perform on stage is very Buster Ron. All the time. Yeah, yeah. Like, Buster was up there for me

because he was able to shut it down, also commercially. Exactly, exactly. All the stuff with Mariah. I mean, he's lost his voice now. Are you think so? I mean, his voice is battered. His voice is, it's still there.

Yeah, but it's very, yeah. It's low. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It is low, but you got this chain is massive. Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah. Maybe that's why his voice is so low. The chain is too big.

Yeah, the chain is too big. But yeah, boss, I get that all the time. Yeah, man, that's how it feels. I have a last surprise for you. Okay. Are you ready for this? Oh, my days. This is a little game.

Okay. Okay, so this is someone who is talking about your songs. So you have to guess what song they're talking about. Okay. Now, he's roasting you a bit, though, just so you know. Okay, nice. It's a little bit of a roast. Don't mind the roast.

All right, so you tell me, what song is this? Okay, hold on. Exoze bars hit like a motivational TV top that got lost on the way to a Grimes set. He's spitting life lessons like your older cousin who read one self-help book and now thinks he's a profit. The beat tries to be uplifting when it's basically a musical pat on the back and that hook. It sounds like someone trying to convince their boss and themselves they didn't just win the whole project. You know a song? What?

Snoop Nis for me up? Snoo dissing me up Snoop is dissey you What what song you think that is He said Bar has hit like a motivational TED song That got lost On the way to a Grime set

Is it the struggle? It is Doing right Doing all right Yes All right That makes sense All right this one

I guarantee you got this one All right Big Zoo and AJ Tracy come through acting like they're counting stats But the lyrics sound like they forgot their wallet at home The tracks got that hyped up energy But it sometimes feels like they're just rehearsing the same flex over and over All right this can be a show itself Trust me the chemistry it's there

But it's more like a casual hand chick than a full on collab explosion Is that Big Eats? No, no, no, no Song, song, song. It's a song called Big Eats. No The songs are called Big Eats. Is it cool?

It's me and Trace. Yes, yes, yes. It's not no limits. Is it Tell Man twice? No. Come on, you got this. You got this. Is it new?

Is it new? Me and AJ. What have we done? Is it paid a full? Payne of full. Fine. Pay the full, man. It was like straight AI roasted.

We were like, we got to do this. No, listen. I like that. Because you're killing yourself. You're like, You want to, you're dissing your own music in your head to find which one it is. So which one isn't that good? Which one is?

Ah, yeah, he got me. It's good, it's good. All right. So, we talked about it all. There's a question that everyone gets. It's the last question. It's my favorite. When you think through your life, all the incredible conversations you've had,

which one stands out as the most memorable conversation? Who was it with? And what did you learn? Yeah, the one that comes to my frontal lobe, I always think what comes here is my head of year in college head of year that called Nick

he stopped me when I was walking through college and he said do you know what you're doing in life and I looked at him and said nah and he was like what would you do something about that and he made me talk to a career advisor and then that career advisor

made me go and work at the company city year which then made me find out what course I want to do in uni, which then made me become a youthful car, which then led to me focusing on music. It all came from at 17 years old, Nick stopping me. I didn't even think Nick knew who I was. I didn't even think he cared about me.

It was just a random head of year that I thought hated me. But he stopped me and he said, do you know what you're doing in life? A little bit of guidance. His little bit of guidance was the ripple effect. for me to go and actually start my life. And that's all I want to repay to young people. What Nick done for me is all we need to do for them.

Yes. So sometimes that young person has lost and hasn't got no guidance doesn't matter about your infinity to them. As long as you can give them a little flick in the right direction, you might change that person's life. That's what Nick done for me. So we got Nick. There you go.

There you go. Nick, Nick, I mean, you know, it's interesting because when I ask this question, people either go to a mother-grandparent or they go to someone who was in school, like a teacher. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And someone who gave them just that one line

and just put them on the right... Literally. The right path. Yeah. You know what I want to say, too, and this is, you know, from my heart, is that the first time I ever heard or saw you was actually the Grenfell video.

Mad. which I think was seven years ago. Yeah. And it was right when I got to the UK. Okay. And someone must have sent it to me. And I was like, yo, this is incredible. Look at this young man who is consciously talking about what is happening.

And what's interesting is that I saw that and now I see you today. And you have remained consistently you. Thank you. In an industry that I see changes people in months. you've had the most profound, prolific run on TV that I've ever seen, but you've remained you. So my hope, my prayer is that you continue to be you because you're changing lives, you're inspiring people,

you're lifting folks up. So my hope is that you not only don't change, but that you're able to retain your happiness. Because I see that that joy and happiness gets robbed from so many people. So my hope is that you're able to sustain. that because I think it's your joy. That's what you give to everybody. Amen. Thank you, Ralph.

You got it, man. Thank you. That was epic. Aye. That was epic. Body leg, sick, bro. That was epic. All right, so this is good. So this is another surprise for you. Oh, my dear. This is specifically for you because, see, Jamaican, Sierra Leone, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, we're family. And I want to introduce you to my favorite food. Okay. My favorite. So what would you guess my favorite?

favorite food in the world is. What, Jamaica food? Right, but what specific Jamaican food? Is it Oxtail? Actually, it is Oxtail. Oxtail could go in this. Pai. There we go.

There we go. All right, so. Why fresh from, have you been to this before? These are good peoples. You know these people. I know them. You know this. This is my friend, Teresa Roberts.

Okay. Who is one of the Jamaican ambassadors. Okay, mad. Who owns this? I say you were coming. So let me lace you with this. Go on. Oh.

Yeah, let's see. It's baked into, this is curry, though. This is, what's your favorite? I'm gonna go on that CG. I'm just gonna see the other. All right, I know we got spicy beef. What do you mean? It's imprinted into the tea.

Yeah, yeah, I think this is soft fish. Salt fish. No, no, no. I got spice beef. I'm gonna go for the spicy beef. All right, I'm gonna go with this. This is my. So now, you know the origin of the patty.

Is it not from Cornwall? this man knows everything I can't do it I can I'll pretend that I don't know no no no no no what are you talking about where does the party

originate from my friend no no no no you tell me about why you thought it was Cornwall because I'm with you that this is the connection between the British and the Jamaicans in terms of that colonisation

wasn't it that they brought Cornish parties over and then the yard man said no let me show you all gone and let me add some spice this is it you had the Portuguese Spanish

then you had the Brits, you know. And then if you look at like even the migration patterns is we're all more like each other than unlike each other. You know what I mean? Like there's more connection between us. Well, if you go to Sierra Leone party, they're whining just like the Jamaicans.

See? But you know what, for Sierra Leone food, I'm not familiar with it though. It's very similar to Nigeria. a lot of joll of rice, ochre stew, cassava, if we love cassava leaves. So there's different techniques, but the food is all the same.

Yeah, it's all the same. All the same. They eat this stew, we eat that stew. Seasoning is really West African. Yeah. And then it kind of spread. Because like I look at fried chicken in the U.S. Yeah.

Fried chicken in the U.S. is that, but they were frying chicken with no seasoning. And then it was the enslaved from the southern part of America who then introduced spices. That's mad. The history of food is mad. We went to Korea for the show

for Rich flavors and they were teaching us about Korean fried chicken and how you had the American army guys over there during the war. They would give out the rations. And while they would give out the rations, they'd sometimes give them their fried chicken. Sometimes they would take the fried chicken

and they would like reheat it with spices and stuff. And I saw made Korean fried chicken. I had no idea. Yeah, it was just fucking mad. That's crazy. So as American servicemen gave them the fried chicken. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, with food, and I've noticed this with you, is I feel like it is the tool for connection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ultimately, at the end of the day. And I meet people who I always say, where you're from? And they told me, and I say that, oh, because you eat that. So you eat that.

And there we go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean. I just say one dish from the country and see conversations start up

when you're able to connect I'm going to eat all these pies you don't have you not have you don't want some party Big I was going to say Big Zoo I'm not

I'm going to say Zahar This is the part where I sit here and then I say the same thing and it sounds like I'm just saying it

but it honestly is from the bottom of my heart one of my favorite conversations this was a conversation where I personally walked away with tremendous, tremendous value. What do you think is your biggest takeaway from that? Oh, my God.

There's too many. You know, maybe, maybe the biggest is that the nice guy won. The moment that he walked in, notice what he did. When he walked in, he shook everyone's hand. He introduced himself to everyone. Now, you know, we love all our guests here, but not all guests have done that. It shows how compassionate he is and how much of a true supporter and nurturer he is. So when he was that little boy on the estate looking outside and he was alone, when he talked about what I wanted, what I desired, truly what it was is he wanted to feel connected.

He didn't have, he didn't know his father. He didn't have friends. He only had his mother. And what Zahir has done throughout his life is he has formed connections with others, and he's created platforms for others to connect. And ultimately, I think that's who he is at his heart is he's a connector. Oh, man. We need a part two.

Yeah, big time. Yeah. You know, what I love, I love when a guest, like, doesn't want to leave. But I tell you, it does hurt as someone who's interviewing when the interviewee walks out and says, I have more to say. It's like, oh, you could have said it. Spring just slid into your DMs.

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