We Need To Talk with Paul C. Brunson - Joey Graceffa On The Life He Hid Behind YouTube: I Lost The Mum I Knew

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Joey Graceffa opens up about YouTube fame, Escape The Night, coming out online, love, family, and the private experiences behind the life millions of viewers grew up watching. In this deeply honest conversation, Joey reflects on the reality of becoming one of YouTube’s earliest stars while still trying to understand who he was away from the camera. Joey looks back on the childhood that shaped him, the complicated family dynamics he grew up around, and the moments that made him feel different before he had the language to explain why. He also reflects on building a life online, the pressure of being watched by millions, and the fear of what might happen if his audience saw the parts of him he was still learning to accept. Joey also opens up about his relationship with his mum, the pain of loving someone you can no longer save, and the boundaries he eventually had to set to protect himself. He speaks about shame, identity, first love, and the coming out video that changed everything. Joey Graceffa, We Need To Talk This episode includes discussion of mental health and addiction. If you’re struggling with these themes or your own mental health, remember you’re not alone. You can find help and resources at the links below: MIND:  https://linkly.link/2dx8b Samaritans: https://linkly.link/2dx7Z    CALM: https://linkly.link/2dx8H    Follow us here: https://www.instagram.com/needtotalk   https://www.tiktok.com/@weneedtotalkpod   Sign up to our newsletter https://linkly.link/2eXHX Follow Joey here: https://www.instagram.com/joeygraceffa/ https://www.tiktok.com/@joeygraceffa (00:00) Intro (01:49) Joey's Childhood in Marlborough, Massachusetts (03:48) Joey's Family Life Growing Up (08:15) How Joey's Parents' Divorce Affected Him (11:25) Paul Shows Joey Childhood Photos (13:53) Joey Opens Up About His Mother's Mental Health Struggles (27:40) Huel Ad (29:02) How Joey Started His YouTube Career (31:45) Joey on Navigating His Sexuality as a Teenager (34:00) Joey's Experience at Maker Studios (36:18) Joey's Coming Out Journey (45:07) Behind the Scenes of Joey's Coming Out Video (49:21) Joey's YouTube Success and Advice for Creators (56:45) Joey's Thoughts on Rising Negativity Online (01:01:55) Joey's Career as an Author (01:04:21) Joey Opens Up About His Relationship With His Ex-Boyfriend (01:11:55) Joey's Relationship With His Sister Today (01:13:28) Joey Reads an Emotional Letter From His Sister (01:16:32) Most Memorable Conversation (01:18:38) Paul's Takeaways Sponsored by: Huel - uk.huel.com/WNTT Try Huel Black Edition ramen , use code WNTT for £10 off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I was like, you know what, I need to want up these gays. I'm just going to sprinkle a little bit of like, oh, I kissed a guy at the end. What could that mean? But I did not think that this was going to officially be my coming out video. I had internalized homophobia, but it wanted to be seen. That's when I started my YouTube journey. I just remember taking my gay quizzes.

Really? Well, first of all, if you're taking that quiz, you're gay. I started to realize that things with my mom were changing. So there was the strong, independent woman who was so caring and nurturing, and then there was this very depressed and emotionally abusive version. Darkness definitely took over at 19

when I got the opportunity to move to LA. There was like no hesitation. My mom was out visiting me. She was basically saying her goodbyes to me. She said, I just took a bunch of pills and alcohol, and she was overdosing. I remember just looking at her, taken out on a stretcher, and I said, well, my boyfriend at the time Daniel was traveling,

and I was by myself again. I didn't know what to do. Do you believe that you will find love again? Neither of us have been in our relationship sense. That could potentially change everything. Hey there, before we get into today's conversation, I just want to share a content warning. This episode includes discussion of suicide and addiction.

If you or someone you know need support, we've included resources in the show notes. Please take care while watching. So was it Boston? It was the suburbs of Massachusetts called Marlborough. Yeah, like the cigarettes. Which also, I didn't realize this. The first time I went to England, like there was so, because I grew up in New England, there were so many names that I would like see in London, I was like, oh my God.

like London stole this. Oh, London stole it? Well, yes. Because America came first, right? You know, it was the same for me, too. I was like, because I'm born in New York. Yeah. And I remember going to York in England saying,

you took this from it. No, they just added new to it. Like, so original. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So Marlboro. Mallboro, yeah.

It was very, like, small town, very rural, like, community. vibes. Yeah. Was it, so was it, did you feel like it was close-knit? Uh, yeah. I mean, it was like my whole world. I was a kid, so it was like, it felt like just this small town vibe that, you know, everyone know of each other. My dad was like super popular. So like, he would always like wave to people on the street. I had no idea who they were, but he knew everybody because it was the town he grew up in. So, um, and same with my mom. She had a hair salon at my house. So she always had like, a very social, like, lifestyle. So it felt like the town all knew each other because of my vicinity of what I

experienced. Okay. That's interesting. That's interesting. And did you have other family members who lived throughout the time? Yeah. Both my parents are siblings of five or six kids. So I had a lot of cousins growing up.

So it was like my whole family was there. I have an older sister by five years. So it was like a lot of family time with us all in the same like, town or town over. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And that changes things.

You know, so like, for example, my boys are growing up in London. Okay. And their family is here in the States. And I've noticed how that has impacted them. You know, so to be able to grow up with so much family, how do you think that shaped you? I mean, it's like built in friends, but my, unfortunately, I was kind of like the black sheep. if you will, the family, because I was like the feminine boy of everyone in comparison. And so my cousins were really, really hard on me.

They would bully me a lot. And unfortunately, my sister would join in. So it was like everybody against me. They would call me Josephina. I was like the girl like in a boy's body, basically, because I was more attracted to playing with Barbies. and wearing my sister's dresses and stuff. And so I really got made fun for that. And they all kind of just like teamed up on me.

Although I had like a couple cousins who were also a little bit weirdos at like the family functions, but they live further away. And so we kind of like go and be secluded and like draw pictures and be our little recluse themselves. Okay. Okay. But this is interesting to me because those were cousins of yours that it sounds like when they showed up at those family functions, you had this circle of safety.

There was like one. Oh, there's one. Oh, wow. Okay. My girl, Sarah, yeah. Off weirdos doing our own little imaginary stuff. Imaginary stuff. Yeah.

All right. So when you reflect back, is that how you see it, that you two were the weirdos? There were a couple others as well, now that I'm thinking about it. But it was this whole ecosystem. of like a small version of society with these family parties and it kind of was like there was a pecking order and it was like kind of conditioning us to in a way I feel like has impacted me and who I am now because it's like it kind of plays into how you see yourself when you're growing up with constant ridicule of people making fun of you of how you are and as

especially in school, I was more of like the quiet one because I think my cousins kind of really shaped me into be quiet because you either sound like a girl or things you say aren't important because we don't have, we don't care at all what you have to say. You have nothing to contribute to the conversation. We'll just ignore you and what we say is the only thing that matters. And so that kind of stuck with me, especially in school. And then I just felt like I was more of the submissive little boy. throughout school. You know, I know that when many children go through levels of trauma, which that is a trauma you were going through, is, you know, children tend to disassociate. Yeah. Right. Because you can't physically remove yourself. Right.

But you can remove this. Totally. And I was always living in imaginary worlds. I just like would always find. I don't know, just make believe as such an escape to create a world that felt safe. And my dad would not let us stay inside when we'd visit him at his place because my parents are divorced. He would like right after we had breakfast, all right, you're outside for the entire day. So all we had was our imagination to keep us entertained.

And we would just build forts and create these worlds and stories and pretend we were orphans in the forest. Okay, okay. Yeah. I mean, this seems cool. It was a lot of fun. And I was telling my friends about it the other day and they're like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I was like, no, it was everything. Like, that's what we knew.

We played with sticks and mud and we were, I was terrified of quicksand. Oh, well. Because my sister told me about quicksand. I have yet to experience quicksand. I don't know why I thought quicksand was going to be like my biggest fear in life. But never have sense seen quicksand. But when you were a child, you were scared. Oh, I was terrified.

I was also terrified of alligators, which were not in Massachusetts. So there was a lot of things. See, the imagination was going. Oh, absolutely. You just mentioned that your parents were divorced. Yes. What age were you when they... Maybe when I was four years old.

And so right off, like, when the brain activated, it was, I see my dad on every other weekend. And that was just the normal. And my parents' interactions with each other was very to multidis. It wasn't ever anything positive when they were together. Really, I only spent the majority of my time with my single mother and my sister. And I would see my dad occasionally, and he was kind of like this scary figure that I was terrified of. Because he was this very stereotypical, masculine man who wanted me to behave a certain way as well. Okay.

So can we unpack some of that? Yeah. So you said, your parents' interactions were tumultuous. Yeah. How would you describe that tumult? I think a scenario that stuck with me as a kid was my dad came, I think, to pay child support. And for some reason, my parents got into it and they were at the front door. And somehow my mom's arm was like in the doorway.

and it got slammed. And so then she called the police and the police came. And it was this whole situation. And I just remember crying on the floor, seeing like my parents argue and they're just being a commotion. When you think back to Little Joey, right? What emotion were you feeling at that time? I mean, I think it was a little bit of like protection

because I was like such a mama's boy. And it's also like a situation of helplessness. I remember just feeling so helpless on the ground, just like looking up at the two people that were supposed to be, like my guiding light in the world, be so at odds and not really knowing how to feel about it because I could see the situation for what it was. And I don't know, like, take the emotion out of it

and see how my mom react. during that and almost want to like protect my dad but also like feeling for my mom in the situation because I wanted them to just get along and so yeah I just I could see I could see both sides at such a young age I don't know how but I just wanted them to be happy with each other do you recall what because you said you were a mama's voice she probably wanted to be with with mom yeah she was more nurturing and had a lot of love to give, but my dad was just scary. I never really connected with like the masculine side,

especially just like men in general, I think scared me. And so having that loving, nurturing side from my mom was just something that I gravitated towards. Can I show you something? There's a few things I will unveil to you. Okay. I'd love for you to tell me how old were you in these? Okay.

What do you believe was happening here? So here's the first one. Oh, my God. Okay, so that, that's actually my stepfather. Oh, this is your stepfather. That's my stepfather, Bob, who actually came in and truly was a light through some really dark times and really took our family from the living situation of like living in a one bedroom apartment to living in this big house and going out to dinners. and taking us on our first Disney vacation. And so he was like such a huge integral part of my childhood.

This is so interesting because I can see. Yeah. Even in your eyes, I can see how much Bob changed her life. Yeah. He definitely, I think I owe so much of my success to him just because he would just always tell me like anything in life is possible if you put your mind to it. And I truly believe that.

And I feel like having limits on yourself is what like stops you from dreaming. And like when you think like there's a cap on what you can achieve in life, there's. And so at 19 when I got the opportunity to move to L.A., there was like no hesitation. It was like, well, yeah, like nothing bad's going to happen. I'm going to achieve my dreams because if I just put the work in, like it's possible. And also just like being at that such young age and just everything that he brought into mine and my sister's life was just like changing. Wow. Yeah.

I can see it. All right. If I can show you another photo. Yes. I believe this could be the same day. I don't know if it was the same day. But yeah, that was that same Disney trip. That was so magical.

I remember getting to leave kindergarten. And who's in this photo? It's my mom. That's Minnie Mouse. Love her. And my sister Nicole. Yeah. Yeah.

I love it. I love it. You look happy. Yeah. In here. And when I look at this photo, I say, wow, Joey looks happy in this photo. Yeah. Things are good.

What then happens? Darkness definitely took over. I started to realize that things with my mom were changing. there was two mothers that would appear randomly. There was the strong independent woman who was capable of anything and was so caring and nurturing. And then there was this very sad, emotional, depressed, and emotionally abusive version. and that version started becoming more prominent. We just lost everything.

You lost everything. Yeah. I lost this caring mother who was there to me. And now she was just this shell of a person. And her and my stepdad separated. And it was just me, my mom and my sister. I lost Bob, who was this. you know, guiding light that just saved us and now he's gone.

And I'm left with this woman who I still at that time just loved and adored and like I knew that loved me and there was such like a care for each other. But she was so mentally abusive to me at like such a young age that. It was really dark and painful times. Yeah. At what point did you realize, because you still had your mom in physical form, at what point did you realize you had lost her emotionally, like you had lost that emotional safety?

There was this one time I came home from school, and at that point, it was already getting rougher. Like, she, it was like a gamble of, like, how she was going to be when I arrived. back at the house. It was either she could be drunk or she could be like the sober, capable mother. And I came home from school. I think this was, I was in like sixth grade, so I was like 12 years old, came home off the bus, walked to my house and I see the front doors wide open. And I immediately knew that something was wrong and that she was probably having a situation.

There was like bottles of alcohol in the kitchen and I immediately knew. And so I'm looking for her and she's outside stumbling around and makes her way into the neighbor's yard. And I am trying to get to her and like bring her back to the house because now I've kind of taken on the caretaker role of our relationship. and she told me that she's going to be dying today, and she, like, picked up a stick and just, like, pointing in at the sky, and she's like, when I come back, I'm going to be a blue jay,

and I'm going to come visit you. And so she was already, like, preparing me for her, I guess, death. And so I was just so confused, and, like, I didn't know what to do. It was literally just me. and I called my dad, I called my stepdad, and they got, I don't know if it was the police or what, but she ended up getting taken away and she was put into rehab. I think this was maybe the first time she'd gone. She left for, I want to say like a month.

And so that was also difficult for her to be gone and then having to like explain that to like friends and be like, where's your mom? It's like, oh, she's on vacation. Oh, wow. That's what you literally said. It was like a constant excuse situation. But then I would either live with my dad or Bob would stay at the house while my mom was away from. 8 to 19 was just constant up and down. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't every day, but it was,

and there was like periods of maybe like a few months after rehab that she was good. And so I got like a taste of the old mother back. And so I think the constant good and bad almost made me latch on even tighter. Yes. Yeah. I see it. I see it. So when you look at that period of your life, how do you believe that period has impacted who sits in front of me today? I think I'm now just very independent. I've learned to like take care of myself and not rely on anyone. So I think that is probably, I'm also like in relationships and partnerships. I'm kind of like searching. for that motherly figure, which is annoying. Like, I really like a nurturing partner. So I don't know if that's an effect or that was just always at the core of, like,

me connecting with a more nurturing partner. But, and then, I mean, I still have, like, my triggers and stuff. I don't like being around drunk people at all. Like, that irritates me. Like, if people can't take care of themselves, like, it really triggers me back to, like, having to take care of my mom and like bring her to bed or you know pick up the mess she made or i don't know it's just a really triggering thing i just don't like going out to bars and seeing people unable to function yes yes your mother you said that you're you no longer talk to you to yeah i no longer

have a relationship with her um she came there was a period of time where she came out to a rehab in Los Angeles. And she was doing really good. So I allowed her to come back to my house. And she, it felt like I had my old mom back. Like, we were out. I had like an obsession with crystals. We went out crystal shopping and had like a really good day.

And then I came home and was upstairs in my office. I think I was like recording a video. and I heard her yelling downstairs, and I was so confused. And she was like yelling for me. She was like, get downstairs right now. And I was like, excuse me, you're in my household. Like, you don't talk to me that way anymore. And it was the Mr. Hyde character that was back.

And I was so confused because that character only comes out, whether she was drinking or she was on meds of some sort. And so I was really confused and I went downstairs to confront her and I was just so triggered because I knew immediately by the way she was talking. She was slurring her words and I was like, what is going on? Like, what did you do? And she, again, it reminded me of that time where I found her in my neighbor's yard telling me that she was going to die. she was basically saying her goodbyes to me.

She said, I just took a bunch of pills and alcohol, and she was overdosing. And I was by myself again. My boyfriend at the time Daniel was traveling to Montana. And so I didn't know what to do. and she was basically telling me that this is her goodbye. So I called the police. They sent an ambulance.

And I'll never, like, forget the image of her being, like, taken out on a stretcher. Oh, my front door. And it was a space that I had created of safety away from her. Like, this was so infuriating that she now had tainted this safe space of, mine. And I didn't know what was going to happen to her, but I remember just looking at her, and I said, this is the last time you're ever going to see me again. She was taken to a hospital. They 5150ed her. And I didn't want anything more to do with her after that. Just because there was, it wasn't just that moment. It was a lifetime.

of her just abusing me and like I couldn't take it anymore. And so that was a bit of like my final source. It's like how dare you come into my space and do this act of taking this medication and trying to kill yourself in my home. It was just this moment of like she, it felt like she was the most, selfish person and like I don't have a mom anymore like you're not my mom you're a child and it was just a moment where I had to like step back and realize that I need to put myself first and I can no longer be her caretaker and since then she's been in and out of rehab we've I think she's in a good place now

my sister still has a relationship with her and talks to her but it's just not a relationship that want to have. I don't know if I ever will. It just, it's a tough thing because I still love her and I have, it's like mourning someone who's still physically here, but mentally is not. Yes. It's a very strange thing to have to experience because to me she's dead, but she's not. I could see the internal conflict, you know, that she has.

have. She's your mom, right? But at the same time, the level of trauma that continually gets pushed upon you in all these interactions is just unfair for you. The question I'm most curious about is there's so many people who are dealing with trauma from loved ones, but have a very hard time asserting a boundary. You were able to do it. After many, many years of abuse, there you kind of reach a point where you just can't take it anymore. And I, there's still days where I like want to like slip up and, you know, rekindle a relationship with her, but I have to stay strong and my tour is stubborn self and just put my peace above everything else because time and time again she has just shown me that she's going to hurt me.

And I don't want to be hurt anymore. I feel that. Yeah. I feel that. So I'm curious, with your father, the relationship with your father, did it ever change? It did. Yeah. I think it changed when I was in eighth grade.

I got the lead role in my high school play. And up until that point, he was like, you need to play sports. He was a soccer coach. I played soccer actually. Oh, you play soccer? I did. My face was a magnet to the ball. the amount of times I got hit in the face.

Oh my gosh. But because he was the coach, it kind of brought us a little bit together because that was like a commonality. Like he was the star soccer player and now he's the coach with me as his like not prodigy, but like, you know, like I felt really cool having my dad as the coach. Yeah. And of course I had to play center. Like I had to be the center role.

And one time he was not, he couldn't make it. So the assistant coach came in and the assistant put me as goalie. Bitch, that was a mistake. I was so scared of that ball. I would be like, oh, they're dodging out of the way of it. I'm like, your team won 10-0. Yes. No thanks to me.

But it wasn't until he saw me in my light shining on stage and realized, okay, I don't need to form him into my image of him. He's found his own path. And I think he was just so proud of me to see me in that way that since that point, he was never trying to push me down the masculine route of whatever he had saw himself. Wow. Look at that. Yeah.

Look at that. It was really cool. And since then, he's been like such a big supporter and we have such a great relationship. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I love that.

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So then through your late teens, what, career-wise, what were you thinking, the path you would take? I thought I was going to, like, end up in film in some way. I think since I was like such a young kid, I like was always gravitating towards a camcorder. I got my first camcorder for Christmas when I was, I think like seven or eight years old. And I would just film everything. And then when I was 15, I got my first digital camcorder. So I could now take that footage, upload it to the computer, edit it. And that's when I found YouTube.

At what age? At 15? Yeah. Wow. Okay. And that's when I started my YouTube. training. Okay. At 15. Yeah. Almost 20 years.

So we have to talk about this. Okay. This is big. This is big. Right. So, so first is what inspired you to post? At 15, I think it was well, there were YouTubers at that point. They were

small and had like maybe 10,000 subscribers, but it was so new. And like seeing, there was this one girl, Brookers, who was from Massachusetts and she was posting these like really well edited videos, skits and just like music video type things. And I was just so fascinated with YouTube.

And I was like, I need to do this. And so me and my high school best friend just got my camera and started making skits and uploading them. And uploading them. Yeah. And is it, so within six months, how many subscribers did you have? Oh, I think like, it wasn't that much. It was like maybe we got up to like 6,000. or something.

Okay. And so it was a very small climb. I mean, there also wasn't that many people on the platform. So it was a lot of, at first, me making fake accounts and commenting. Oh, really? Did you? My own post, me, like, this is the best video I've ever seen. And then commenting on other people's pages, promote, self-promoting.

Say, did you see this post over here? No, it would be like, oh, my God, I love your videos. Go watch mine. Oh, my gosh. Then it seems like your objective, or one of the objectives was you wanted to subscribe. Yes, I wanted to be seen. Like, I thought it was really cool to, like, get feedback on the content that I was putting out there. And, I mean, even, like, right from the beginning, the comments were all about me being gay.

Really? And I'm, like, a 15-year-old kid who, at that point, like, being gay in my surroundings was a very negative thing. So it was something I was very upset at, that there were comments suggesting that I was gay. At 15, you were not out. No. So to get those comments, you were upset for what reason in particular? I mean, my cousins growing up were made it very clear that being feminine or being gay or the way I talked was wrong. And so then having these strangers comments kind of reiterating that fact definitely hurt.

It felt like a hate comment being told that you're gay. So did you then deny it? Yeah, of course. Okay. It's like, no, I like girls. What do you mean? Yeah, they said, okay. They're like, uh-huh, sure.

Sure you do. Fair. It's fair. So, all right, so then what was the content? It's like just these weird skits that we created. And then we learned pretty quickly that taking more pop culture moments and combining it with, I don't know, like a song or something was like a magical recipe. So I combined, this was like back in 2007 or eight. No, it was like eight or nine.

Farmville was like a big thing on Facebook. Yes. And Justin Bieber had just come out with his one time. music video and he was just popping off. So I combined Justin Bieber and Farmville and Strangest correlation Charlie Puth was also from Massachusetts and we connected and Charlie would sing these songs. Wow. I would lip sync over it and we would get other YouTubers to come into the video and record themselves and send me footage and I'd edit it all together and we just like made all these music video spoofs. How successful was the pop-off? It was good. I think it got us to like 100,000

subscribers. And then we came out to LA for the first VidCon. And because we had these videos that were doing well and we had a decent amount of following, there was like attention towards us. And so the very first YouTube network was being formed and we got invited to join. And so that's what prompted us to move to Los Angeles. Okay. And this is Maker's Studio. Maker Studio. Yeah.

Yeah. Can we talk about Maker Studio first? Sure. Okay. Yeah. Because I found it to be fascinating. Yeah. Especially because it was sold for, was it a billion?

Yeah. Something crazy. It was wild. So what were you thinking you were getting involved in? And then also financially, what was the structure? Before I even knew what Maker was or what they were forming, they were a collab channel called the station. And it was these top YouTube creators who shared content.

They made these skits in like these really high edited production content as a group. So it was like these like major YouTubers at the time. And so I thought we were being invited to join that channel. And then it wasn't until we like got there that we were like, oh, wait, this is not that. So they're over here. Yeah. But they once a month would produce a higher quality content for our channel. And it was basically like a rev split after, I think, $5,000 a month.

They would take a percentage, but we never reached that. So we kept all the money. And so it was a really good introduction into how production worked, moving up to a life, feeling like we had a bit of security because it felt like we had almost like a network behind us. And, yeah, it was just a great way to like meet other creators. and come out here and collaborate. Yeah. And how old were you when you came out here?

19. Yeah. So, I mean, 19 going from the suburbs of Boston to L.A. Yes. That's a culture change. It was. It was incredible. It was being around a whole bunch of people who didn't know who past Joey was.

And so I felt like I had so much more freedom to be myself. And the group of friends that I surrounded myself with were a very accepting of gay people. And so I felt more comfortable to be my flamboyant, like joyous self. And so eventually felt comfortable enough to come out to them. And that kind of started my whole gay journey. All right. But L.A. was just like freedom. Wow, L.A. was freedom. Yeah. Look at that. Look at that. Can we talk about your coming out journey? Yeah. What were those milestones for you. I think the first and major one is the internalized homophobia.

That was the biggest hurdle to get over, was finally accepting that I was gay. I just remember taking am I gay quizzes? Really? To like tell me if I was gay or not. And if it said I was, I would take it again. And be like, no, I'm not bitch.

Oh my God. Jude, tell me about this. Well, first of all, if you're taking that quiz, you're gay. So there's your answer But I wanted like This was like the most private way to like Talk about it so I would take these quizzes And like if it said I was by it was like okay

I didn't at least deal with that But I was also confused because I thought girls were pretty And so I was like a little confused Because I had crushes on girls growing up Okay so I've since realized it's okay to think that Women are beautiful But you're just not sexually attractually attractive

to them and that was like the difference. Yes. And so finally, I think what changed was I went out to this dinner. It was like a big group dinner. It was like a post celebratory production thing that my friend had just shot a music video. And so I ended up being sat across from a gay guy. And so we were just chatting throughout the whole dinner. And at the end, he asked for my number.

and I got a little flutter and my stomach and I was like, what is this? And so he ended up asking me out for lunch. And I was like, oh, it could be like a business lunch thing. No, it was a date. And so once I realized that, I was like, this feels so right and good.

It was like something clicked in me and I was like, okay, yeah, but you're gay. And I told my friend that I went on a date with a guy and she was like, oh my God, that's so cool. And so she was so nonchalant about it. And that was like such another important step to me accepting because it was that external validation that I had never received before. And so having Matt just built my confidence even more that it's okay to have these feelings. Yes. And then it was just like a gradual.

telling more friends and they kind of built my confidence up more. And then the scariest part was the parents. And that was the last step. Well, actually, no, it wasn't because then I had to tell my audience a bit later. But the parents, I think, was the scariest. Tell me about that. Well, at this point with my mom, I now was separated from that situation. I got really bad with her before I left.

Like we got physical with each other. And so it was like this weird thing where she was out visiting me. And we were in like a good period of our relationship. And we were just driving. And this was I think maybe a year or so after that first date that I have with that guy. And now a couple guys later, I'm like, still dating around and I was just like, oh, like, I have a date tonight with a guy. And she was like, oh, okay.

And then we kind of just left it there. And we didn't have like any further discussion about that. And so that was my way of coming out to her. And it just kind of like was that. We didn't go any further. And then with my dad, I think he was probably. more of the scary one of the two. The two, yeah.

Label gay growing up. Yeah, yeah. What did that mean to your father? What did that mean to your mother? I just remember subtle things they would say, and that is what made me afraid. Like, I remember my mom. We were in Florida on a vacation and her saying, like,

oh, I accept gays, but they just, I don't want to see it. Like, she didn't want to see guys holding hands or guys kissing. And so that definitely stayed in the back of my mind. My dad constantly was, like, making gay jokes or just didn't like anything not rigidly masculine. And so I was terrified of him. I remember one video I posted on YouTube. I was playing this character that,

had like a lisp and kind of like spoke very gay. I mean, it wasn't too far off from my own character, but it was like an enhanced version of me. And he was like, oh, you sound so gay in this. And so then that stuck with me. And I was like, oh, my God, like, I felt like I had been living a lie and like having to tell them that I've been lying to them. Yeah.

Was hard. I feel a little bit of that, that pressure, you know, right now. And I can see how you must have thought it's probably, it could be easier to not even tell your father. Yeah. My sister, I think, is where I got the courage for that particular one, because I think it was around Thanksgiving. I would go home to visit and she was like,

you need to tell him. I was like, okay. So we sat down at the table. I chugged like a glass of wine after dinner and I was like, I need to tell you something. And I just could not get the words out. Like, it was just stuck right here. And I think it was like, I just don't know how to

start. Like, how to, like how do I start this? Like where do I begin? And then I think I ended up just blurting out like I am gay. Like that's just the easiest way to just get it all out at once. And I was expecting him to be upset and angry. And he just looked at me with no effect on his face. He just looked at me as if I didn't say anything.

of like anything crazy. Yeah, anything of consequence. No. Yeah. And he was just like, okay. And he just hugged me and was just so supportive. And it was so, like, important that I got that acceptance. And it really, like, affected me deeply moving forward to have his approach.

or just his love. Because if the scariest man in my life can accept me for who I am, like, I have nothing else to hide. Wow. Look at that. Yeah. And so from there, you were able to, what, build the courage to then tell the public? Yes. Okay.

Which came, I think, maybe two years later. And I think that one was also the scariest. Just because, again, it felt like I had been lying. to my audience the amount of times I would talk about girls or that I was straight or deny the allegations and comments or videos. It felt truly like I had been lying and it was like, well, now how do I backtrack and then tell the world? Which by the way, telling the world is so scary because you're just inviting a bunch of strangers to comment on their opinions. Yes. And I was scared that that was going to like push me deeper backwards.

than it would forward. Right. And I think it's also important for everyone to know who's not aware of how widely followed you were at this point. Yeah. Yeah. What was what was that following like for you? So I flogged every single day for five years, but I think I was maybe two or three years into it. So I built up this large audience of teenage girls who I think a majority of them could tell that I was gay.

But there was a lot of them that were like actually in love with me. And so there was the fear that by coming out as gay, I'm now cutting out a big portion of my audience that is attracted to me or sees like a potential future with me. Yes. Through like a parisocial, you know, vlogging every single day, you become connected to that person. And so it felt like I could be like risking at all. Yes. And how many? Because we're at millions now.

Yes. I think I was at like maybe three or four million. followers at that time. Yes. And I think what like ultimately gave me the courage was other YouTubers coming out and seeing their response to their coming out like Troy Savon, Karna Franta, like those were people that I mean there was a time where like coming out videos were a thing. It's not anymore but um I was like you know what I need a one up these gays and so I was like I'm not just going to do a sit down coming out video I'm going to make it a

production. Oh, okay. And so I made a like $60,000 music video and flew out to Montana, shot this very whimsical, magical, essentially story of my life through fiction and nonfiction, like flipping back and forth between reality and fantasy. Yeah. It would cost 60,000. 60,000?

Oh, it cost 60,000. Yeah. It costs 60,000 for this. Yes. Oh, my goodness. I know. It was a production. You did definitely one up everybody.

I certainly did. And it's, I think it has like 45 million views now. So, like, it was a hit. Oh, yeah. It was a moment. I think there was a key aspect to that moment. If I could show you something. Okay.

I have so many things to show you. Right. I think was that on set? Yes. Don't wait. So that's my ex-boyfriend, Daniel. Okay. he helped produce that music video and we were secretly dating at that point and I needed to cast

my love interest and he was like well why don't I be it and I was like okay if you're down to be in the video like it's going to come with a lot of attention like this is going to be a big moment you're going to be like a part of this and like you won't really be anonymous anymore and he was down and it was just intensity after that. Yes, yes. So now in the announcement, right, so you shoot the video, you edit it. Yep. You hit publish, right?

What are you anticipating this going to happen versus what does happen? I, I, it was like split. I think I knew that there would be a lot of support just based off of what other people had experienced with their coming out videos, but there was also just like the fear of it like not

coming across the way that I wanted, you know, you never really can guarantee people are going to react the way that you want them to react. But I showed a few people before I even posted and they were just like, that was beautiful. Like, people

are going to love this. Yes. And also, I did not think that this was going to officially be my coming out video. I was like, I'm just going to sprinkle a little bit of like, oh, I kissed a guy at the end. What could that mean? And people were like, congratulations, King. Like, we knew it. I'm like, wait. But I didn't officially say anything.

Right. But yeah, it ultimately became my coming out video. Yeah, yeah, it did. And then did any, did you lose the audience that you thought you were going to lose? No, it was. insane amount of support. Yeah. Like the reaction was crazy.

I think it definitely boosted my numbers and just, I think because it was such like a heartfelt story and the music video, people connected with it and were proud of me to share that side of my life finally. And yeah, it was just a rallying support of love. Can we talk about your, is it right to say, vlogging career? Sure. Right. Because I find this piece of your life to be very fascinating.

Yeah. Because, you know, at a certain point, so my son is, my youngest is 12. And last year, the top profession that year, this is a study in the UK and the U.S., was YouTuber. Wow. And I consider you to be one of the people that has inspired so many people to want, so many younger people to want to become a YouTuber as a profession. Yeah.

Right. One, how does that sit with you? And then we'll get into the career. But how does that sit with you? I think it's cool. I mean, it's awesome. Like, I love the fact that this has been my career for the past 20 years. So I think it makes a lot of sense why people would look at a YouTuber and want to be that.

I think it was honestly the same way I felt about actors and Hollywood and the movies. Like I want to be a Disney Channel star so bad because it just seemed like such a cool thing. To get to play make-believe to have all this fame and get to do these cool things just seemed like so much fun. And so I think it's just the new age of what used to be, being a Disney Channel star or like an actor would be. Exactly, exactly. So now in this becoming a career and a profession, I think it's important to look at how much work that you put into this. So how would you describe that? Because it's not all, I think there's this thought of, yeah, you just show up, you sing and dance.

say a few things and call it a day. But talk about the level of work and almost obsession, I would imagine, you have to have. Yeah. I mean, again, 20 years of this. There's not many people who've lasted that long. And the reason is because it's a very demanding, not only like on the daily basis of having to come up with content, but also, you know, there's a lot of other aspects that fall into it, whether it's like public perception, scrutiny,

but also it's really hard to retain relevance for a long period of time. And if you can't pivot and change up your content and you get stuck on one particular thing because it worked for a certain period of time and you just keep trying and trying and it's just not working anymore. A lot of people, I think, just give up. And it just takes a lot of tenacity and persistence to be able to continue for a long period of time. Otherwise, you just get burnt out and it's over.

What do you think gives you the ability to pivot? This is kind of like a blessing and a curse. I feel like niche people do so well, but I will never be a niche. Like I just want to do so many things that I think that keeps me able to switch up my stuff because I have so many interests. because I have so many interests and I want to do so many different things that it allows me to change up my content and try new things. Can we talk about, and this I truly think is brilliant, is Escape the Night? Yes. That was my favorite project that I've ever got to work on.

Yeah, brilliant. Thank you. Yeah, incredibly unique. You leveraged a format. Yeah. You leverage personalities. Yeah. in a way that I think had never been done before.

No, I mean, my, I would attribute a lot of my success to collaboration on my channel. There was a long period of time where YouTubers were just collaborating with each other. It was like we'd sit down, maybe not even know them that well, sit down in front of a camera, do a challenge on one channel and do a different challenge on the other. And the cross-promotion was key to a lot of YouTuber success at that time of like 2014 to 18. And so I took that idea of bringing 10 content creators together, throwing them into a almost reality TV slash scripted environment where they're dressed up in an era. So season one was 1920s.

So imagine all the top YouTubers in 1920s outfits. Right. It was so different to how the YouTube audience was seeing their favorite content creator actor behave. And so it just brought all these 10 different audiences together and immersed them into a world that I think was just ahead of its time. Yes, yes. And we got four seasons out of it and I would love to bring it back and do even more. So you're thinking about bringing it back? Yeah, absolutely.

It's unfortunate because YouTube original stopped their programming, which is where it ended. And so I would love to bring it to another network and see it brought back with reality stars and traditional celebrities mixed in with content creators as well and kind of redo what we did by mixing all these audiences together. Because I feel like reality TV is still a little scared of bringing in content creators. I don't see it that often. And I think there's so much power there that's untapped. And I think what we managed to do with the show and the success that it had can easily be replicated. I mean, do you feel like we're reaching a point now where YouTube and what's happening online, so to speak, is beginning to dwarf television and reality TV? And the reason why I say that in particular is because, like, I, so I go back 15 years on reality TV.

and I would distinctly remember people would say, I can't wait, like, I'm using my online community to my end goal is to get on TV. Yeah. Whereas now I feel like it's, no, I'm using TV, my end goal is to get online. Yeah. No, for real, like people going on Love Island, for instance.

Like, it's an instant following on social media. Yep. Exactly. It totally has reverse. I mean, I remember I did The Amazing Race, and I thought, I was going to get a bazillion followers. No.

No one came over to my channel to subscribe. Really? Yeah. It was shocking. You did two series of Amazing Race. Yes, I was an all-star. So not even being an all-star. It didn't even get you followers.

No. You know what community was Facebook moms. Like, those were the people that were watching the show. It wasn't Gen Z or really millennials watching that program. So it was like, yeah, I had an audience with the moms. The moms. But when I think about social media and following, something that I've seen you say, and I completely agree with is that the amount of negativity online has increased.

Yeah. And I think I saw you say something around the lines of since 2020, you feel like. So let's talk about that because I have theories because I agree with you and I have theories as to why. There was a clear shift. I mean, someone who's been on the internet and social media and YouTube and whatnot since the dawn of it, I've gotten to see the evolution from inside. And how it started was it was a lot of the outsider community, the nerds, the weirdos, finding community online. And we had all these like subcategories of creators who built audiences, but it was really like a bunch of nerds.

and the outcasts, I guess if you will, who found their tribe online. And then in 2020, when everyone was forced to go inside, the entire world found our little safe haven and joined in. And so it wasn't just content creators in their audience. It was now everybody is now in this space. And it was like a new wild ball west where there's now TikTok involved. and it was very easy for the average normal person to have a video be seen by a lot more people, not just their audience.

And so I think it was just the introduction of the rest of the world finding our little space. Yeah, yeah. So I'm with you on that. And I would say that I think what then happened is that you had, so any type of engagement creates more. more uplift in the content. And I feel this has really been the case over the last several years is there's more cultural and political divide. Absolutely.

To the point where it's so interesting, I noticed that the hate comments are predominantly the comments that you see under so much content now. And that's the content that ends up staying with, I think, the creator. I mean, oh, for sure. Yeah. Does that impact you even to this day? Yeah, of the game for 20 years. Totally.

For me personally, there's a level of feeling misunderstood that can come across with these hate comments. And it was like, they don't know the full story or they're only seeing this little like video or clip. And then they're just like, I don't know, generating hate. And it's just like, I just want you to like know the full picture of what you're. hating on. Yes. And I feel like that's across the board. It's very much we live in a time where people are just scrolling and they see an entertaining like story or someone talk about something. And then they just take that as face value and then continue on. And then they have the narrative in their head about a certain topic or something. And there's a lot less research

going into certain things that pop up online. How do you respond to that? Do you comment on it, you know, to those hate messages? Do you internalize it? Do you try to avoid it? Like, how do you deal with it? I mean, it's impossible to not internalize it. I think that's part of like why I, now my content isn't so.

I mean, my content now is mainly focused around the animals that I rescue. whereas before it was like centered around me and my life. Yes. And I think just over time the comments kind of like get into your head about certain things and it can change the way you behave and feel, end up feeling more reserved to share things because once you open up that box, it's kind of like allowing people to poke at your vulnerability. Wow. So this is one reason why you have shifted to predominantly content around your rescuing. I guess so. I think subconsciously, but also like I landed in this space during 2020.

I rescued a pregnant cat and fell in love with the process. And it's just genuinely something that I love to do. And it's just very nice that it doesn't have to be about me. But it wasn't like, okay, I can't do content about me anymore. What's my next? Right. Right. It was this natural, but I would imagine, though, it feels, it feels good. It's something that I'm passionate about. I mean, who's going to troll?

Who's going to troll? Oh, really, saving, rescuing dogs who are folks trolling? I think it's just another thing. It's like people are upset that people are saving puppies from death. If people are upset about that online. nothing's off the table. And so you're also a writer. Yeah.

When did you begin writing? I wrote like these crazy books as a kid. They were like just colorful pages and I just write stories. And I remember my first creative writing class in fourth grade and just like we had 30 minutes to write a story. And I just like was writing up a storm and I never wanted to stop. And looking back at like I understand why because it was like just a creative outlet to like get my imagination and like these stories. my head out. And it started in 2014-15 when I started writing my memoir book about my life in real life. Yes. And that was a very therapeutic experience because it was like talking about life experiences,

but it was about me. And then the following year, the publisher wanted to do another book. And I was like, well, I have like a fictional story I would like to write. And so that became a trilogy called children of Eden. And that was just like a gateway opening into the creative writing experience. So then my fifth book, The 12, that just came out in February, was my fifth book. It's about witches having power space off their zodiac sign. Wait, what's your sign? Yeah, it is. Well, I'm a Virgo. A Virgo, okay. Yes. And I didn't subscribe to it at all. But now I'm fully... Do you know stereotypically Virgoes are the most anti-astrology Yeah, so that that fully tracks.

They're notorious for not believing in astrology. I was like, this is all BS. This is all nonsense. This is, I don't, no, no. But now, Joey, like, I'm beginning to really see. Yeah. So now I saw the, can I say promo video. Okay, sure.

Of 12. Yes. And I found it to be fascinating. Oh, thank you. Do you know why I found it to be fascinating? Tell me. because the book was there. I mean, you flash the book.

Yeah. 12 was there. But there were some other things happening in the video as well. Yeah. I see, and I thought, wow, you know, Joey knows what he's doing. Yeah. I love to do like, I mean, same with the coming out video. Like, I love a production.

I love to make a dramatic, cinematic. I see things very visually in creative. So like when I'm writing my books, it's all very visual. So I'm writing it. When I'm writing, I see it as a movie in my head. and I'm just typing out what I see is kind of my process. Can we talk about the supporting character in your promo video? Okay.

All right, which was the same supporting character in your coming out video. Oh, okay, okay, okay. You see where I'm going here? Yes. Yeah. So one is can you talk about him, how that came about in your promo in the video? No, I mean, that video you're referring to is just one of the many promo things that I created. But that was a big one.

It was me kissing my ex-boyfriend. Yes. And so, yeah, we still have like a really good connection. We never really stopped being friends after we broke up. And so we had this idea that was just like, you know, spark a little conversation. A little conversation. But also, he was a part of the launch of my first. first book. And so having my fifth one come out, it was just kind of like a little bit of a

throwback of making out with your ex-boyfriend. I mean, who doesn't do that? Right. So on this, though, you remain friends after you broke up. Yeah. Right. Which is something that most people cannot do. Yeah. I know that for a fact. Totally. Right. So one is what is it about the two of you or your relationship that has allowed you to remain friends? I think because we did things on mutual terms, I think that helped. But also on a deeper level, he also experienced a lot of similar trauma growing up that I experienced. So we were just like connected on a level like that of our childhoods being very similar with not having parents in our lives.

And I think because we had such a strong bond with each other, it's something neither of us really want to lose in a friendship. And so we chose to stay in each other's lives over not having each other in our lives. But that is, to me, that is something that takes a very high degree of maturity. Yeah. To be able to do. But how do you do that? It's difficult at times. Like, I feel like we probably should have had a period of no contact.

Because it does extend the moving on process and being able to detach from each other. Much longer. It's been a longer process than I think if we had gone no contact, we would have been able to have more of that separation. but now I feel like we're in a pretty strong place of it just being very friendship. Even emotionally, though, there's still, in order to sustain the friendship, there needs to be an emotional connection, right? But how do you sustain a deep emotional connection with an X? I don't know if it's necessarily deep.

It's still a little bit, like, we keep it a little bit on the surface. still. And we don't really get too deep. I mean, neither of us have been in our relationship sense. So I don't even know what it's going to be like when we cross that line of one of us being in a relationship. That could potentially change everything. If you are considering another relationship, would you then tell Daniel first or? I think if anything got serious and I ended up having an official boyfriend, yes, of course, I would tell him that.

Okay. That was happening. Can we talk about love? Yeah. Totally. So when you think about you being in love romantically, have you been in love? Aside from him. Well, I'm presuming it was with him.

Yes. Okay. Since then, no. Okay. However, his dog, who's kind of my dog, her name's Montana, she is my love of my life. Okay. Which is so frustrating because she's not officially my dog. but she is like my sole dog.

Like I would do anything for her. I've never loved anything more in my life than that dog. Really? I know. It's crazy. It's like a different feeling that I've ever felt. Like I would literally do anything. Okay.

But I would like to harness that energy towards a man. Yes. Yeah. That would be good. That would be good. Yes. It would be great. That would be good.

Then still then, you and Daniel are still in love, but not together. Yes. Okay. Do you think there's any future that the two of you would be together? I don't know. I feel like there is so many moments that we're together that remind me why it didn't work out. But then there's like moments that I'm like, oh, like we still make a great team. Like I was just in Japan for two weeks and he stayed at my house and took care of my foster and the puppies. Oh my goodness. So he's definitely a person in my like that.

does things in a way that I can trust someone so deeply. And we still have such a good, like, working relationship that it's like, well, I don't know. Yeah. It's one of those where I always find it so hard because was he the first love of your life? Yeah. Yeah. I could see where it becomes a very challenging position for you. Mm-hmm.

I mean, I would love for the next person to be the one, which is why I think I'm so particular. Like there's obviously been opportunities to be with someone, but I'm just looking for something in particular. What are you looking for? Well, for a while I was looking for like a British man to like live off in the countryside with. So if you know any, I'm still open. I know many. Okay. Well, please connect me.

There's something about like the British accent that just gets me and I'm just like, oh. however there's been a I've been to London for extended period of times and through my experience London boys are terrible kissers Oh you're going there huh However there was this one guy

He wasn't necessarily from London He was actually from Greece Amazing kisser Okay so I would be open to like A Greek man or an Italian man Who lives in London Maybe has developed a British accent And we can go off and live in the countryside and have a bunch of animals.

Okay. Yeah. All right. I can see that for you. Okay. Sure. All right. I'll make that happen.

Please. I'll make that happen. Okay. Last question on relationships, though, for you is do you believe that you will find love again? Yes. Without a doubt. 100%. Yeah.

Of course. Of course. Okay. Yes. Yes. And I'm so excited to have that feeling. feeling again. I think I'm a little burnt out right now from it and I'm just like focus on work, but I'm not looking for love, but I'm open to it.

We have conversations just like this one every week. So if you haven't already, hit subscribe and I'll see you for the next one. You mentioned your sister. So where are you and your sister today? So we ended up getting a lot closer when I got into high school. She was a senior when I was in eighth grade and we had like one year in the same school together. And she was very mean to me growing up. Like she'd throw me down the stairs. She was just abusive to me physically. And then one time I finally retaliated once.

I like attacked her. Like I went full feral and she became scared of me. And then we from there she like had some respect. She was like, okay. And then I think she threw a party once and I didn't tell on her. And so she was like, okay, I can trust him. I respect him. And then we started developing a closer relationship.

And now we talk like every single day. And she's like my closest person that I can, you know, share stuff that I'm going through in life. And, you know, I feel like she's my older sister who can give me good life advice. And yeah. Yeah, look at that. Joey, I have a final surprise for you.

Oh, God. What is it? Is it a puppy? It is a chihuahua. No. It is this. It's a little letter. I'd love if you could read it out loud.

Okay. Let us see. Joey, I don't think I tell you enough how much you mean to me. even though you're my younger brother. Oh, this is for my sister? I've always looked up to you in so many ways. Ever since you were young, you've had this natural...

Oh my God, I can't even read this. Ever since you were young, you had this natural ability to make everyone around you feel calm, safe, and understood. Growing up, there was so much chaos and uncertainty around us. But just having you around brought me comfort. And I don't know if I've ever fully told you that before, because we both know I didn't show it very well when we were younger. Watching you grow into the man you are today has honestly been one of the greatest gifts as your sister.

I'm constantly in awe of what you've accomplished. But what I admire most is the person you are at your core. You have such a good heart, and the way you show up for people care for others and make everyone around you feel valued is something really special. No matter how much life changes to me, you will always be my little Joey, the kindest boy with the biggest imagination and biggest heart. You're not just my brother, you're truly my best friend. You're the person I can always talk to, lean on, laugh with, and trust through every stage of life. I feel incredibly lucky to have you by my side, and I hope you know how proud I am with you every single day.

I love you so much. How did you get to her? That is so sweet. I love that. Oh my God. That was really sweet. Yeah, I love her so much. There's not many people I have in my life that I'm like super close with and can be vulnerable with.

And she, I'm like a few select others are the people I can confide in. Yeah, yeah. What I also love about the love between you and your sister. is I think it gives so many of us hope who maybe didn't have a close relationship with our sibling earlier. Yeah. No, that's very true.

I mean, typically your siblings you're going to experience an entire life with. So I think they're probably the more important person to fix whatever relationship you have, missing with them. Yeah, well said. Well said. Joey, I've enjoyed this. I have to thank you for this sweet letter and, you know, giving me this space to share more of my story.

Absolutely, absolutely. Is there anything that we haven't talked about, that we haven't covered that you want to touch on? It's the full thing. Yeah, I think we were thorough with it. I will then ask you the final question. Everyone gets this question. All right. It's my favorite.

It is, you've had some incredible conversation. in your life. When you think about the most memorable, who was it with, and what did you learn? Oh, wow. Yeah, that is, I think I,

I again have to go back to the conversation with my stepdad who like really, really instilled in me just the belief that anything in life was possible because without that deep, integral conversation at such a young impactful age. I honestly don't know if I could be here sitting right now with the success that I've achieved without having the limitations set on me.

So I think I have to give it to him. Thanks for your vulnerability, you know, your just rawness, but also for your inspiration. You know, you inspire so many people. And I think it's important for you to know that because sometimes, especially for those of us, and I'm one of those people who stay in my head most of the time. Yeah. It's important to look out and realize that you are doing good. You are literally changing lives.

And I think ultimately that's the most important thing we can do here with our time. Yeah. And you're doing it. I agree. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you.

And I'm going to find you a man. Okay. I'll take you up on that. So preferably, right, we want someone from Greece or Italy. Yeah, anyone European, honestly. Anyone over there, I'm good. Okay, but you want the British accent. Or any accent.

Or any accent, yeah, just a little spice. A little spice. Yeah. Who is open to living between the states and... Los Angeles. Done, done, done, done. All right. All right.

I got you. I can't wait. Yeah. Okay. Joey, Joey, Joey. All right. You know, Joey's super successful as an adult, but yet you can still see the conflict and the turmoil, the internal turmoil, based on events as a child. It's so interesting to see his journey because he started as the mama's boy, as he said.

He started feeling ostracized from his dad, not connected to his sister, but yet connected to his mom, and look at where he is today. I do believe wholeheartedly that kids soak everything up, not only the words, but the silence. And in Joey's case, that's exactly what he did. He heard these homophobic statements coming from his mother and father and father. family members and that becomes a part of that internalizing and you can see how harmful it was and how reluctant he was to even come to his father over the course of so many years but then eventually when he does come to his his dad his dad embraces him and accepts him so to me the lesson there is just how important those early interactions are just sweet

Sweet man, you know. He is someone who I will cheer for when he enters his next relationship. I was 16 made like a million quid. Tommy, in it, you are one of the most followed people in the world. It was the most amazing thing and then it really backfired. We had the police around and my mom was crying. That was very scary. Start making these videos. I got a taste and I was like, oh, I want more of that. That was genuinely the last moment in my life that things felt like real. And I was like, just watching myself make the most money I've made. Keep it a big secret and no one at school knows. So the day of reckoning came.

All of my self-esteem was leaning on this thing that I'm the most popular person ever. That was the worst feeling in the world because I'm still on this treadmill, but I'm not really running for nothing anymore. And at this point as well, I'm finding it really hard to navigate. So every week I'm having a call with a different YouTuber,

KSI, Mr. Beast, Logan Paul. It appeared as if there was this brotherhood. Walkers were all misfits. We don't fit in and then we're all helping each other. At night, I call that like, Techno had died. I loved him. He was a hero of mine and he was a friend. At that point on, the world lost some of its color.

Thank you for being a voice that says, it's okay not to be okay. On that note, I have a little surprised me.